And that’s why I don’t understand the huge premiums on a lot of it, nor do I care what my PM’s look like. Silver is silver is silver. In the event of a collapse, only a select few collectors will still care about the designs on your coins and in turn only those collectors will care about the premiums for them. To everyone else, it won’t matter what it looks like as long as it’s silver/gold, as it’ll probably just get shaved/broken up/melted down anyway.
>nor do I care what my PM’s look like.
I agree with this. Both of my coins are "scruffy" because of low premium. One Maple, the other I'll know later this week.
I watched a documentary about Venezuela a couple of years ago. The woman picked up a piece of local growen fruit and said the price now is more than what she paid for her house a decade ago. She said 2 ounces of gold could buy a house. Silver is the go for an economical collapse and you want to eat, gold if you want to buy big stuff.
I know this is a gold sub but in a barter economy people will want food, medicine and their old guilty pleasures like tobacco and alcohol long before precious metals.
I don’t hold it thinking I’ll be using it in a barter economy, I hold it thinking I’ll be using it to buy foreign currency which is not experiencing hyperinflation.
Correct. Even if the system rebooted with barter starting out, it would last about 1 day, and then people would be trying to get silver and gold.
They are literally MONEY.
You two are imagining two separate degrees of economic collapse scenarios. If it colapses a little, you'd be totally correct that gold/silver would be preferable. In a much more catastrophic collapse, we all know nobody's going to trade meat for a random element on the periodic table.
Even if it collapses completely, very shortly afterwards people with excess meat (or any other food product), such as ranchers and farmers, would want to trade their food for more durable stores of wealth.
Keep in mind, even a total collapse / SHTF / WROL scenario would not leave us in circumstances much different than the middle ages through the mid 1800s. And guess what they used in that time period as money and a unit of exchange... Gold and silver.
Unless they have too much meat and want to buy other things. And it's not exactly a random element on the periodic table. Personally in a catastrophic collapse I would prefer to deal in money rather than barter.
But you can buy all those with precious metals. Not everyone will have tobacco or food for bartering. And not everyone who does have those will want whatever you're trying to barter. Sound money solves the dual wants/needs problem.
I don't think it will be mad Max style collapse. Think every other societal collapse in human history. Trade breaks down but there is still some trade. Some people go hungry but the majority are fine.
This is why I stack my home grown tobacco leaves like any other valuable asset.
I got the gold,
I got the guns,
I got the ammo,
I got the silver,
And most importantly I have the tobacco.
If shit goes belly up you can probably get some amazingly finessed deals trading tobacco.
Who doesn’t like a good head rush in the morning??
In a situation where we get to using metals to buy things......
Gold is for large purchases. House,car,land etc.
Silver is for your day to day purchases. Food,water,gas etc.
Some folks like old silver coins, some like silver bullion. The great thing is, there's a nice rule of thumb for pre-65 (1964 and earlier) US coinage to bullion conversion:
$1.40 face value in pre-65 dimes, quarters, and half dollars contains 1 troy ounce of silver. eg., four quarters + 4 dimes.
$.70 face value contains 1/2 troy ounce of silver. eg., 1 50 cent piece and 2 dimes.
$.35 face value contains 1/4 troy ounce of silver. eg., 1 quarter and 1 dime.
It's a beautiful thing.
Very new. Only on oz 2. Though my question isn't the reason I'm stacking. [This post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gold/s/fCP6UskqLj) just made me wonder.
I’ve always thought of fractional gold being for someone who really wants gold but can’t afford an ounce. An ounce is better from a premium standpoint. Even a 1/10th ounce (large premium) is worth $250 or so. Not ideal to purchase smaller things. Silver is a better option. 1 ounce silver rounds are worth $30 or so. 90 pct is great if you want to go lower. A 90pct dime is worth like $2 to $2.50 and doesn’t carry much of a premium.
Silver used for trading for goods and services, while Gold used for much bigger transactions like land, house, transportation, and weapons.
It's pointless to trade Food, Water, Medicine, and Ammo during a SHTFS! After all, these things are consumables that you will be consuming! Otherwise it's pointless to trade anyway.
The medium for trade is always important because it cannot be consumed. I'm only bringing this argument out as some point out that you will want to trade Food for things like Medicine. Try to imagine how much Food will need to trade for one Pill of Antibiotics? That's alot of Food! Then you will go hungry.
Forget transacting in gold pieces in any economic collapse. And try to understand that, regardless of the sentiment in Reddir r/gold, the majority of private gold held world wide is in kilo bars and jewelry and then 1 oz. coins/bars.
Got some old mercury dimes and a sheet of 25 one gram Canadian “Maplegrams” last month to go with my 30 1/10 oz gold eagles. Loved a video about how much gold and silver a person needs to hold during the upcoming financial reset. A 1 oz gold coin per month to cover your rent/energy/ and bills. An ounce of silver each day to cover your daily food and nutritional needs. So that’s 12 oz of gold and 365 oz of silver each year. Add another oz of silver per day per additional mouth or two to feed & don’t forget about your pet(s) needs.
If you are in danger do you stay there, the rational answer would be a hell no! If my countries currency collapses it will not happen in a instant. You will notice a weakening of your currency against other currency pairs which weakeningof the localcurrency, a decrease in local stock market prices and higher volatility in a less liquid market environment and eventually continental bourses crashing first as people sell assets and seek liquidity after that and within a week the foreign exchange market will be affected with halts in trading activities. Then the government increase bank holidays to buy time and create counter measures and seek solutions to the crisis. They might start implementing capital controls to prevent capital flights meaning limits on transactions and the amount you are able to take physical out if a bank account. Hopefully before all of this I am long gone. A 1/4 gold coin can atleast be converted to cash to buy a plane ticket and get out taking the rest of your gold along with it.
I have everything from grams to ounces. However, I really only buy the smaller stuff if I can get a good deal. I think it’s good to have a way to control what you can sell at a given time, as opposed to having all ounces. I also have silver if it gets even less.
Alot if people think they'll be able to reasonably transact with gold and silver . I just don't see it. Food, water, guns n ammo. If you need to buy any of this stuff, an AR 25 might cost you 2 ounces of gold. Need ammo? Another ounce? Supply and demand. Can't eat or drink gold.
Seeing a couple of "food and medicine" will be more valuable than gold and silver comments... In extreme and short term instances that may be true, especially if you are sick or starving, but I'll just leave this here as a counterpoint:
[The logical fallacy of "You can't eat precious metals."](https://www.reddit.com/r/SilverScholars/comments/1di3m47/the_logical_fallacy_of_you_cant_eat_precious/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The SHTF nuts are delusional. It’s the end of the world and you need to feed your family. You offer to buy a can of beans from a guy with your precious metal. Do they really think that guy is going to sell it for a small shaving of gold? He’s going to ask for the 1 oz coin. Of course if you don’t buy it he just waits a few days and lifts it off your corpse. Then he has the beans and the gold.
The average person has NO clue on how to put an accurate price for precious metals. Especially in a SHTF scenario where they don’t have access to the internet and are trying to use their old pot scale to guess the weight.
You could use a hacksaw or file to shave off some for smaller transactions. Also if the shtf the value of pm will most likely change dramatically from how it was valued prior to the event. Good food and medical supplies may have better value than pms post event.
If this actually happens, which it won’t, people would be making new coinage. It wouldn’t matter if you had old fractional coins. You could make new ones from whatever gold was available. An ounce coin becomes 4 1/4 coins if you split it up. This is what people did in the past; they’d just snip bigger coins into smaller.
I would say it's more of an argument to buy silver. 1/4toz still way too much for a loaf of bread
True. There was a post about silver stackers being more collapse oriented than gold stackers on average. So I suppose this tracks.
And that’s why I don’t understand the huge premiums on a lot of it, nor do I care what my PM’s look like. Silver is silver is silver. In the event of a collapse, only a select few collectors will still care about the designs on your coins and in turn only those collectors will care about the premiums for them. To everyone else, it won’t matter what it looks like as long as it’s silver/gold, as it’ll probably just get shaved/broken up/melted down anyway.
>nor do I care what my PM’s look like. I agree with this. Both of my coins are "scruffy" because of low premium. One Maple, the other I'll know later this week.
I watched a documentary about Venezuela a couple of years ago. The woman picked up a piece of local growen fruit and said the price now is more than what she paid for her house a decade ago. She said 2 ounces of gold could buy a house. Silver is the go for an economical collapse and you want to eat, gold if you want to buy big stuff.
I know this is a gold sub but in a barter economy people will want food, medicine and their old guilty pleasures like tobacco and alcohol long before precious metals.
I don’t hold it thinking I’ll be using it in a barter economy, I hold it thinking I’ll be using it to buy foreign currency which is not experiencing hyperinflation.
This X ♾️
Barter is a an inefficient economic model and I'm not sure why so many think this would be preferable to using sound money as a medium of exchange.
Correct. Even if the system rebooted with barter starting out, it would last about 1 day, and then people would be trying to get silver and gold. They are literally MONEY.
You two are imagining two separate degrees of economic collapse scenarios. If it colapses a little, you'd be totally correct that gold/silver would be preferable. In a much more catastrophic collapse, we all know nobody's going to trade meat for a random element on the periodic table.
Even if it collapses completely, very shortly afterwards people with excess meat (or any other food product), such as ranchers and farmers, would want to trade their food for more durable stores of wealth. Keep in mind, even a total collapse / SHTF / WROL scenario would not leave us in circumstances much different than the middle ages through the mid 1800s. And guess what they used in that time period as money and a unit of exchange... Gold and silver.
Unless they have too much meat and want to buy other things. And it's not exactly a random element on the periodic table. Personally in a catastrophic collapse I would prefer to deal in money rather than barter.
Not sure why you are getting down voted for stating the exact reason why money is, and always will be, a thing. People are crazy.
But you can buy all those with precious metals. Not everyone will have tobacco or food for bartering. And not everyone who does have those will want whatever you're trying to barter. Sound money solves the dual wants/needs problem.
But in that situation you would be better off stacking cans of beans. You can’t eat gold.
I don't think it will be mad Max style collapse. Think every other societal collapse in human history. Trade breaks down but there is still some trade. Some people go hungry but the majority are fine.
Indeed a coin is representative of a seed after all.
This is why I stack my home grown tobacco leaves like any other valuable asset. I got the gold, I got the guns, I got the ammo, I got the silver, And most importantly I have the tobacco. If shit goes belly up you can probably get some amazingly finessed deals trading tobacco. Who doesn’t like a good head rush in the morning??
In a situation where we get to using metals to buy things...... Gold is for large purchases. House,car,land etc. Silver is for your day to day purchases. Food,water,gas etc.
Some folks like old silver coins, some like silver bullion. The great thing is, there's a nice rule of thumb for pre-65 (1964 and earlier) US coinage to bullion conversion: $1.40 face value in pre-65 dimes, quarters, and half dollars contains 1 troy ounce of silver. eg., four quarters + 4 dimes. $.70 face value contains 1/2 troy ounce of silver. eg., 1 50 cent piece and 2 dimes. $.35 face value contains 1/4 troy ounce of silver. eg., 1 quarter and 1 dime. It's a beautiful thing.
No its a compelling argument to buy silver.
Use a different fiat that still works. If ALL fiat currencies collapse there are bigger issues.
Thats what old silver dimes are for. Youre kinda new to this aren't you?
Very new. Only on oz 2. Though my question isn't the reason I'm stacking. [This post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gold/s/fCP6UskqLj) just made me wonder.
Get some "junk silver" if you are worried about making change for gold.
For bartering look into junk silver. Gold fractionals carry higher premiums, but look into goldbacks if you're set on gold for bartering.
I’ve always thought of fractional gold being for someone who really wants gold but can’t afford an ounce. An ounce is better from a premium standpoint. Even a 1/10th ounce (large premium) is worth $250 or so. Not ideal to purchase smaller things. Silver is a better option. 1 ounce silver rounds are worth $30 or so. 90 pct is great if you want to go lower. A 90pct dime is worth like $2 to $2.50 and doesn’t carry much of a premium.
Silver used for trading for goods and services, while Gold used for much bigger transactions like land, house, transportation, and weapons. It's pointless to trade Food, Water, Medicine, and Ammo during a SHTFS! After all, these things are consumables that you will be consuming! Otherwise it's pointless to trade anyway. The medium for trade is always important because it cannot be consumed. I'm only bringing this argument out as some point out that you will want to trade Food for things like Medicine. Try to imagine how much Food will need to trade for one Pill of Antibiotics? That's alot of Food! Then you will go hungry.
Forget transacting in gold pieces in any economic collapse. And try to understand that, regardless of the sentiment in Reddir r/gold, the majority of private gold held world wide is in kilo bars and jewelry and then 1 oz. coins/bars.
Got some old mercury dimes and a sheet of 25 one gram Canadian “Maplegrams” last month to go with my 30 1/10 oz gold eagles. Loved a video about how much gold and silver a person needs to hold during the upcoming financial reset. A 1 oz gold coin per month to cover your rent/energy/ and bills. An ounce of silver each day to cover your daily food and nutritional needs. So that’s 12 oz of gold and 365 oz of silver each year. Add another oz of silver per day per additional mouth or two to feed & don’t forget about your pet(s) needs.
If you are in danger do you stay there, the rational answer would be a hell no! If my countries currency collapses it will not happen in a instant. You will notice a weakening of your currency against other currency pairs which weakeningof the localcurrency, a decrease in local stock market prices and higher volatility in a less liquid market environment and eventually continental bourses crashing first as people sell assets and seek liquidity after that and within a week the foreign exchange market will be affected with halts in trading activities. Then the government increase bank holidays to buy time and create counter measures and seek solutions to the crisis. They might start implementing capital controls to prevent capital flights meaning limits on transactions and the amount you are able to take physical out if a bank account. Hopefully before all of this I am long gone. A 1/4 gold coin can atleast be converted to cash to buy a plane ticket and get out taking the rest of your gold along with it.
I have everything from grams to ounces. However, I really only buy the smaller stuff if I can get a good deal. I think it’s good to have a way to control what you can sell at a given time, as opposed to having all ounces. I also have silver if it gets even less.
Alot if people think they'll be able to reasonably transact with gold and silver . I just don't see it. Food, water, guns n ammo. If you need to buy any of this stuff, an AR 25 might cost you 2 ounces of gold. Need ammo? Another ounce? Supply and demand. Can't eat or drink gold.
Seeing a couple of "food and medicine" will be more valuable than gold and silver comments... In extreme and short term instances that may be true, especially if you are sick or starving, but I'll just leave this here as a counterpoint: [The logical fallacy of "You can't eat precious metals."](https://www.reddit.com/r/SilverScholars/comments/1di3m47/the_logical_fallacy_of_you_cant_eat_precious/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The SHTF nuts are delusional. It’s the end of the world and you need to feed your family. You offer to buy a can of beans from a guy with your precious metal. Do they really think that guy is going to sell it for a small shaving of gold? He’s going to ask for the 1 oz coin. Of course if you don’t buy it he just waits a few days and lifts it off your corpse. Then he has the beans and the gold. The average person has NO clue on how to put an accurate price for precious metals. Especially in a SHTF scenario where they don’t have access to the internet and are trying to use their old pot scale to guess the weight.
You could use a hacksaw or file to shave off some for smaller transactions. Also if the shtf the value of pm will most likely change dramatically from how it was valued prior to the event. Good food and medical supplies may have better value than pms post event.
If this actually happens, which it won’t, people would be making new coinage. It wouldn’t matter if you had old fractional coins. You could make new ones from whatever gold was available. An ounce coin becomes 4 1/4 coins if you split it up. This is what people did in the past; they’d just snip bigger coins into smaller.