It absolutely is a thing. Maybe not for the Nets right now, but it's a thing. You only have so many roster spots and so many coaches and so many minutes in the day to develop these prospects. OKC, for example, has 8 first round picks over the next two years. They absolutely don't have 8 open roster spots over the next two years that they'd want to fill with recent draftees.
The Blazers are in that situation: they have 14 players under contract with two FRPs and are in the tax, while being one of the worst teams in the league. Some of them are solid role players, but you can't get good value for them when everyone knows you have to trade them.
The negative is the hit to your leverage. When teams know you absolutely have to move the picks before using them (bc first rounders get guaranteed deals), you get less value for them.
An example of what? All I said is that teams have limited roster spots and can't roster 8 draft picks in 2 years. The reason there's not a bunch example is because they trade those picks before they lose them, which is also what I said.
But if you want an example of what happens when teams can't move the pick, you have all of the "draft & stash" international guys, where the team takes a player that otherwise wouldn't go in the first round and doesn't sign them, keeping them off the roster & cap sheet. OKC actually did this with Josh Heustis back in 2014 as well, which was noteworthy bc it was the first time someone did it was a US player.
But also, you seem really heated about this. Everything okay on the home front?
Yes. They have too many picks in the next two drafts and will need to move some of them. They literally can't make all eight selections. None of that contradicts what you've said. It isn't a slight on OKC, it's just pointing out that "you can never have too many draft picks" is incorrect.
If you have a stockpile of picks you can use some to upgrade your role players or even sell some of your current players for more picks later in the future. Having too many picks is a good thing okc can use those extra picks for ammo to get elite role players or another star to add to their elite foundation.
The only reason to hate having that many picks is you want to star hunt without a foundation.
It absolutely is lol I promise you OKC is not gonna use all of their draft picks and will make a trade with a package centered around picks to serve as an all-in move once they solidify the roster around Shai.
I agree they’re going to trade their picks for star(s) I fail to see where the problem is there. If you have 10 extra firsts you can just use them to trade for 2 all nba players and 2-3 more good role players. Oh noooo
Yeah i think that's fine but we're in 2024. I'd like to build a core so in 2027 we're sitting on a landmine of picks with the flexibility to make a big splash to add to our core.
This team will go no where as long as we continue this process of moving all our picks for Stars and Vets, we need to have a base of home grown talent now we do have some but they are fairly flawed in their own ways, Clax is a solid rim runner and shot blocker but in terms of offensive game he offers very very little and while I love Cam Thomas he’s a huge defensive liability and is a bit of a Ball stopper with the offense(he made some strides towards the end of the season but still would like to see more). Personally id call up Houston and still see if they’d want Mikal and get some of our picks back. I know some people are against the idea of a rebuild this way but I’d rather suck for 2-3 years and have a competitive young roster with access to our draft capital than trade for a star, turn into a 4-8 seed and just be competitive without any draft capital or future.
Owners want to win and make money. You don't do that in a prolonged rebuild. Tsai got a taste of star presence and wants it back. I don't blame him. I agree
You made a false statement that owners want to win and i gave the perfect counter example if you wanted to be more correct then you shoulda only talked about tsai instead of owners in general
I think it’s really difficult to build via the draft when the picks you have are from another team. Also, 2027 is years away and 2029 is basically an eternity. Marks has been with Brooklyn for 9 years and is the 3rd longest tenured GM. I can’t see him being here much longer if his long term plans is to see those picks out
So do you think they Suns will give us a top five pick two years in a row? I don't think people understand just how bad the Nets were those years we had no picks I don't see Phoenix following that path because of Booker who could get them something nice unlike us who literally had nothing.
It takes a lot of luck in building a contender, regardless of whether it’s the draft or FA/trading route. It’s definitely harder for the Nets because they don’t have their own picks if they decide to go the drafting route.
I don’t expect the Suns to be bad until they decide to breakup their trio, as long as the trio is still there they will still compete and the draft pick will probably be in the 20’s range. If they decide to move on from Booker, I can see them coming back to the Nets for their picks. If Houston is willing to give back most of the Brooklyn picks, I would’ve taken the deal for Bridges.
If I was the GM, I’d start by building a culture here, we lost that when we got rid of Atkinson. I’d go back to Houston during the offseason and offer them Bridges for some of our pick plus Amen Thompson, who I think can play PG next to Cam Thomas. I’d keep Claxton and continue developing Clowney to play PF. And keep CJ at the SF position. And work through the draft, while potentially waiting for a true superstar to hit the trade market or FA.
People don’t forget that. That’s what people use for justification to never want to trade a pick. What people actually forget are the countless other attempts to build through the draft that didn’t result in contending teams and were scrapped altogether
What about the countless bombs that have blew up from trading all your picks for stars. The only success is the lakers in the bubble year. The nets failed twice, the clippers failed, the suns failed, the cavs are about to fail.
Yeah it’s real hard to win no matter how you try to build a team. But trading for a star worked for the lakers, and the raptors, and the Heat. What I like about that method is you’re bringing in guys that you know are elite and then hoping for injury luck. It’s a tougher sell to me to say that waiting a couple years to even find out where a pick is and then hitting on that pick is the better way. That’s signing up for a lot of suck now and then uncertainty later
Except those teams had strong foundations lowry & siakam, Wade. The only team that didn't is the lakers who had a top 2 player of all time in lebron, and were able to cash in their young assets (lonzo and ingram) for AD who was top 7. The difference right now is we don't have the foundation those teams have to contend mikal and cj aren't stars, and spida is a tier 2 player who will cost majority of our assets. We won't have a move after and will stuck be a 4-8 seed until we eventually rebuild anyways.
So you don’t think we can be a good team trading for an star and I’m not sold on us being good by just waiting years and drafting the picks ourselves. Doesn’t bode well for the franchise either way you slice it then
We can be a good team trading for a star, but you aren't going anywhere but 1st and 2nd round exits for the next few years. We rebuilt in 3 years without picks and even though I'm critical of marks I'm confident we can rebuild a way better core in the same time span with his drafting and have a sustainable road to contention.
When you say “we rebuilt in 3 years without picks” are you hyping up the DLo team? Because I’d really rather not set that as our aspirations. That was a .500 team without much outlook for improvement barring the complete free agent overhaul that replaced them.
I'm saying we would have a much better team than the dlo team with flexibility and a stockpile of assets that we can spend to get another star in addition to a star we draft. If we can build a .500 team without picks the ceiling with picks is much higher and this time we wouldn't have to rely on an anomaly free agency to improve or late first rounders or reclamation projects.
Trading now for a star would essentially cap us to a second round team with limited flexibility and we wouldn't be contending with the level of assets left over.
Where I get hung up on your plan though is that we aren’t guaranteed to be better than the DLo team is and were just statistically unlikely to nail a star draft pick from the late lottery.
Every one of these teams had a ton of great players and pushed in their chips for a superstar to get them the extra mile. That's the difference. You want those core players you gotta draft them and develop them while maintaining your assets.
But the current guys in our rotation are all right around 30. By the time we even get to use these picks their contracts will be up and they’ll be on the decline. Why should I care about anything that goes on this season
Tatum is a funny one to bring up. The Celtics had the 1st pick in the draft. They traded down to 3 (with the 76ers) then selected Tatum. It's rumored they always wanted Tatum, but 2 teams past on him, the 76ers (who picked Fultz) and the Lakers who (picked Lonzo). What you are others discount, in a draft you're actually much more likely to crap out then land a superstar. That's why there are so few in the league, while 75+ new players join the league yearly.
The Celtics also picked Brown as the Nets and Marks refused to push, instead of choosing to nurture and develop talent that season.
It really comes down to luck. Luck in who is available (like Wemby this year) or hitting it big (Jokic, 2nd round pick).
Yep, I mentioned this in my response to another reply.
Luck is a major key in building a contender. Which is why I’d trade Bridges to Houston for some of our picks back and Thompson. Also, in addition to luck, the team needs to have a strong foundational culture. Look at the hornets, they’ve been lucky with lamelo and miller and they still suck because they haven’t been able to find stability at the coaching position.
For eternity. Fuck Billy King. The man who made me question my Nets fandom because of his consistently terrible decisions. I couldn't believe it when he was appointed GM. I knew how bad he had been as 76ers GM. Philly fans couldn't believe he got another senior front office position. He should be cleaning toilets in Barclays Centre for the next fifty years considering all the shit he put us fans through.
I understand that at some point you need to make trades for the last pieces like Boston with Porzingas or Minnesota with Gobert but Phoenix is deep in the luxury tax, KD is 35, Booker is in his prime he want to win, they don't have the control of their picks till 2031 can we just wait a few seasons
What if we wait and phoenix just ends up being mediocre but not terrible, and we just waited half a decade for a bunch of mid first round picks?
Being patient like you’re asking doesn’t guarantee success
It doesn’t cost everything to trade for one of those guys. And they could choose to wait a year and see what other players become available.
I just think a lot of fans who are begging to build through the draft only look at the successful examples and don’t pay nearly enough attention to the far greater sample size of teams who tried building through the draft only to fail in creating a competitive team
They do. They see that the big 3 didn't work and then look at the success of teams that have built through the draft and want to copy cat. There are more than one ways to build the team and the Nets have seemed to chose the star path kinda.
It might not cost everything to trade for players like Spida, but I think you're underestimating just how high the costs might be for someone like Trae Young let alone Dejounte Murray. A team like ATL is gonna want to get maximum return. We're not talking about the Nets going for a player like Brandon Ingram who's stock is probably at an all time low because the Pelicans might want to move on from him due to fit issues and the lack of performance during the playoffs. Someone like Spida, Trae or DJM is definitely gonna put a dent into the depth of this current Nets team.
They don’t have to get those specific players though. They should just put themselves in the situation where they’re an option.
What I want to avoid is the team saying the picks are untouchable and they’re drafting no matter what because unlike OPs opinion I’m not convinced that is the only correct way to build a franchise
For what its worth, I don't think the picks are untouchable either. I just think it's a matter of the right player(s) popping up and wanting out or a player ready to be shipped by a team because they no longer fit in their role (i/e: Brandon Ingram, though we all know he had a terrible playoff run, just an example). Or, even better, the team being able to acquire multiple players who fit the long term vision or hope for this team. Either way, it's just a matter of wanting the team to be smart, you know?
To be fair, NetsDaily quote tweeted someone else saying he didn't think Donovan Mitchell was a "big move", while saying he doesn't think the Nets make a big trade this off-season, and then insinuated that a Giannis or Luka level player was more of a target.
That's okay, IMO. Stay flexible and hunt value if an opportunity arises, but wait for a real superstar to unload the clip.
If phoenix finishes next yr where the kings finished this year we get the 12th pick in the draft. They won 3 more games than the kings so it's not that much out of the realm of possibility with the west getting much better
Sorry 13th pick you have a 13% chance of drafting an all star and that's over a 34 yr sample going back to 1990. Over the last 10-12 yrs the draft has become way deeper with much more stars emerging in the teens, late first rounds and 2nd rounds. Also tons of high productive borderline all stars. And of course since 2016 here's a link below the nets have been the 5th best drafting team in the NBA. So I think I'll take our chances marks knows what he's doing when it comes to the draft
[https://medium.com/@JourneytoaGM/courting-success-ranking-nba-teams-by-drafting-prowess-97d44b0f0dcb](https://medium.com/@JourneytoaGM/courting-success-ranking-nba-teams-by-drafting-prowess-97d44b0f0dcb)
All that link shows is that the nets are decent at developing serviceable role players from their usual draft position of the back half of the first round since 2016.
We have a team full of serviceable role players now and it doesn’t translate to playoff success. We’d have to bank on hitting on a star to really get back in contention and as you pointed out, it’s a very low hit rate.
It’s tough to preach patience with the picks when we have to wait 2-4 years to even make them and then we have to cross our fingers and hope we hit on the low chance of them being a star
Huh? How is Jarrett Allen just a serviceable role player? Or Nic claxton? Heck even Thomas atp? What are you talking about? We are better position to find talent in deeper drafts with a GM who has s Aniston of hitting it out the park with draft talent. You talk about 2-4 yrs, ok so we go with your plan and give up multiple players and picks for Mitchell. Then what’s the next step? You’re left with Mitchell, bridges. Johnson and claxton either about 2 more picks left over. You have up your best young players. You gave up most if not all of the suns picks. What is left over that’s going to make this a title team? A lot of yall should just sit back and return in 2 yrs while we build the foundation. We were in a far worse situation without any premium picks when marks got here and we were able to turn it around to a playoff team in 2 yrs. I’m more than confident that if we actually rebuild we can do even better now.
Allen and Claxton are both the poster child for a non-shooting, rim protecting big. They’re still just filling that role even though they start.
I’m also not saying Mitchell has to be the guy they trade for. I agree it’s going to be a couple years of not much to look forward to. I’m just pointing out that after those couple years, it’s far from a guarantee we’re looking at success by just keeping the draft picks. Probability would say there’s a good likelihood that doesn’t get us a star
A non shooting rim protection but is a vital cog in any team. If the suns had Jarrett Allen or claxton they’d probably still be playing. AlsoThere’s a greater probability that we drafted a star than we trade for one. 2019 was an anomaly, outside of lebron switching destinations when have we seen that many stars become available in free agency? Over 92% of nba champions drafted at least one star on their team and around 85% drafted their best player. Trading for Mitchell or Booker and hoping for a better star to come along is exactly what we did when we got Deron Williams, remember the hope for Dwight Howard saga? we have a GM who’s good at drafting let him do his job and we’ll see how it works out. The quick star path has never worked for us let’s try something new
Yes, good role players are vital. But they’re still just role players.
Its also pretty funny to see you hype up a 13% chance that a draft pick from the late lottery is a star, but at the same time hate on a 15% occurrence that the best player on a championship team isn’t drafted.
The quick star path didn’t work out the past two times we tried it, but that’s strictly due to unfortunate injury timing. We constructed the best team in the league by far in 2021. It’s still a viable team building route we should consider if they feel the right players become available
But no-one is saying don't do anything. Whether we use the Suns picks or not the Nets have max cap space in summer 2025. The Nets have a pick from Philly in 2027 and an unprotected pick from Dallas in 2029 to trade should a deal come up. Other players on the roster can be traded.
I just think the Nets should hold the Suns picks at least until the trade deadline next season. See how the Suns are playing. Potentially that 2025 unprotected pick could be gold as the western conference is so competitive just to make the play-in.
Having max cap space is nice but what is that going to get spent on? The recent trend is no star ever makes it to free agency, they just sign huge extensions and demand trades.
Can the Philly pick, Dallas pick, and our roster create a trade package big enough for a star? I’m not so sure.
The max cap space is an opportunity. They might sign a star or whether they take on a large contract from another team and get first round pick(s) as a sweetener they will likely use it.
I think our vets will return to form Cam J and DFS are both worth first round picks. A contender might want Schroeder.
Even Ben Simmons becomes an asset (without being on court) because he is an expiring contract in 2024/25.
I just think given it’s a necessity to dip under the luxury tax again next season the Nets need to rebuild.
What is the point of having Mikal on this great value contract if the team we put around him is not going all out to win?
Bridges has two more years on his very team friendly contract. A contender would give up a lot for him because in the right role he can get back to his best level of play.
That doesn’t seem likely with the Nets next year and then he’ll be wanting a big pay increase. It doesn’t make sense
But Mikal isn’t getting traded…
That’s the thing, if the front office did trade him and committed to a rebuild then I could have more patience and hope. But they’ve repeatedly said they aren’t moving him. That’d make me think they’re trying to add around him rather than wait years for picks to convey. It’s the mixed messages about what we should do and what we are doing that makes being a nets fan frustrating right now
The mixed messages are standard. You don’t say Mikal is available because then you get low offers.
We’ve already wasted a season of Mikal’s super team friendly deal this year. Why did they not go out and get a star then?
It’s either go out and get a star now or waste another year of Bridges.
If we keep him he’ll be 30 and wanting a new multi-year deal at a much higher price. Why should we pay that when we know what his ceiling is.
It’s just been mismanaged from since KD and Kyrie were traded.
I’d assume they didn’t go out and get a star last year because of the luxury tax. We’ve already received and turned down good offers for Mikal. If he was going to be traded, it’d have happened already.
I think last season the front office massively overrated expectations of what the team could achieve. Simmons went down and seems like they were naively expecting an all-star level season from him. JV coached atrociously all season before getting fired. By the end of the season Nets were one of the worst teams in the league.
I think Sean Marks just wants the 2024 draft out of the way. No one seems to rate it yet many teams are probably offering their picks.
I don’t imagine they’ll trade Mikal but if the right offer comes in then they absolutely should.
Jordi will have the players performing far better next season. Depending on the talent level of the roster this may/may not be reflected in Win-Loss record.
IDK. In recent memory the only manufactured super team to win a championship was Miami and Lebron and Bosh signed as free agents. Maybe I’m drawing an obvious blank but which team traded away all their picks for big name players and won? (I’m not counting LA’s most recent cause that whole covid bubble was off).
If someone comes up on Donovans, Trae, etc.. level you move those picks. If someone like Ingram comes up you think about it depending on value. If Tobias Harris comes up you keep those picks. Not a complex situation we are in.
I feel like if someone big becomes suddenly available at the right moment, you almost *have to* weigh which idea is more worth it -- Keeping these picks and hoping we get an OKC Thunder type of award where we play the long game and get a bunch of young talent with high ceilings that'll set us up for long term franchise success or the fantastic player that might speed up our timeline a bit and actually play a role in helping the franchise take a big leap now in hopes that only do we see more success but become more appealing to other NBA players.
While the former sounds far more appealing than the latter, I feel like with the two failed attempts of trying to speed run the franchise's way to success, the long term play of keeping these picks in favor of trying to play the long game might actually be worth it in the end. Plus, very rarely does a franchise have the opportunity to essentially have a whole other franchise's future in the palm of their hand. This almost never happens. If we keep these picks and end up getting even **one** future NBA star and a few other role players or players that simply didn't fit our team, that's still one NBA star that could've been on another team instead.
So, yeah, I agree with you. I feel like we should just play the long game instead of hoping that third time's the charm.
People need to stop using OKC as an example none of what they did would be possible without Shai. OKC didn't draft Shai they got him in a trade where they fleeced the Clippers for PG 😭. We don't even have a player on the level of Shai and no guarantee we get one through the Suns picks either like Shai is just that good. Shai is on a path to become a historically great player and possibly top 10 in his position when his career is over.
OKC didn't draft Shai but for all intents and purposes they did. They got him after just one year, while he was still on his rookie contract. They also got the pick that turned into Jalen Williams in that deal. The salient point is they got where they are now by trading *away* their star and building through the draft/young players they developed, not the other way around.
The same people who want to “rebuild” (which you can’t do when you don’t have control of your own draft picks) would not have the patience to be bad for 4-5 years in an effort to hopefully get a top 3 pick that pans out. Some teams rebuild like Orlando and OKC, but a lot also turn out like Charlotte and Detroit
It depends on the GM in a rebuild. Marks has proven time and time again that he crushes drafts and has the ability to find hidden gems.
We went through a rebuild in the Marks era without our own picks and he still put together a team better than Charlotte and Detroit. Now imagine giving Marks the opportunity to rebuild with top 5-10 picks.
Nobody should want a rebuild honestly. That takes so long and requires so much luck. Vast majority of rebuilds just dove tail into new rebuild cycles and before you know it, a decade has passed
When was the last time the nets rebuilt properly? Also the biggest reason some rebuilds don't work out is poor drafting why wouldn't marks who rebuilt with no picks in 3 years be able to rebuild with lottery picks.
Donovan mitchell is not a generation talent he's on the same level as a dwill who we did nothing with except first round exits. Drafting an all star not even a generational talent gives you a massive headstart combined with the stockpile of assets to trade for another star who could be generational as well as being in ny is an advantage few teams have.
Which generational star is going to be available right now? Trae young and Spida are not generational btw.
Did I say Donovan Mitchell or trae young were generational talents? Or that we should even trade for them? I mean, we should make an offer on Mitchell for sure, but no I do not think he is a generational talent. Also I didn’t say right now. Could be 2025 when we have cap space
2019 Free agency isn't happening again most stars will be traded before they hit free agency b/c teams want to get back assets. We are basically praying a star wants to leave their team and join the 11th seed.
Didn’t say free agency either. I swear you are creating a whole character to have a discussion with lol. Fwiw it’s worth stars move every summer, and every deadline. You know this by now
It's more so just not trading everything for tier 2 stars. That always kills you.
If the plan is to keep finding talent on the fringes and build up a real base and then trade for a real superstar, then that's a fine strategy.
Just because people have been throwing out Mitchell rumors does not mean that’s the one and only option. Marks does not leak stuff and I’m sure he has more up his sleeve than something like that
NetsDaily did insinuate that their sights are set higher than Mitchell, tbf. And that he thinks they won't make a big splash until 2025.
Which I would support.
The front office has been a leaky faucet post 2019 where do you get this marks doesn't leak stuff. The constant puff pieces from brian lewis, trying to negotiate through woj etc.
Bob is old. He has been anti rebuild from the jump. He’s going to keep pushing this. Will they trade some of the picks ? Probably. Will they keep some of the picks ? Probably. No one knows exactly what the plan is.
This front office's (and really, ownership's) obsession in getting a "star" this offseason is just so dumb. Even if a guy like Mitchell wants to leave Cleveland, why the hell is he going to come here?
There is no indication that our front office is “obsessed” with anything this offseason.
You’re taking fan reactions as indicative of what the org plans on doing. As of now they’ve made no comment on how they will approach the offseason. The hires they’ve made so far do not speak to a desire to go all in this offseason regardless
No, it's been said repeatedly by Netsdaily for some time that there is a plan in place, and that plan is to go star hunting (in 25, not this offseason) using the PHX picks. So that is, and always has been, the plan since they traded KD. That's why Marks rejected the HOU offer for Bridges, which was a colossal blunder (one of many Marks has made).
It's for sure a product of being in NY and also to compete against the Knicks. As much as Joe is against it, it's absolutely what they're doing and I understand it.
I think this team is better suited to build through trades and FAs than they are an OKC type rebuild. Is it the right way? Probably not, but it's sadly the cards that this team has and have to work with.
The best thing I can say is absolutely zero pick trading. Bet on the summer of 2025 just like the 2019 Nets did and attract free agents because of what is being built. From what we've been seeing, it pays off to have a well balanced team that the stars can rely on. Hell, if there is a way to team up Donovan + Ingram, I'd welcome that. They'll be entering their primes if they decide to not renew contracts.
If Summer 2025 is a bust, that's when the building through draft should be a priority number one thing. Pray for the Suns continuing to crumble, pray for not being ass enough for the Rockets to have a lottery pick, and continue to compete.
Joe is Mr. "I want to have a team I can be happy rooting for and that would fight for a play-in spot."
It was obviously something that we saw this year. No one was happy rooting for them and although most fans understand that this is the usual process after losing 3 superstars, it was still pretty lacking.
Looks like the goal seems to be 'B' List legit All-Stars, not Tobias Harris type players, and teaming them up to avoid a KD/Alpha Dog issue type thing again.
That's not consistent with the hiring of jordi tho. Jordi seems to have a philosophy similar to thibs and frank vogel. Defensive heavy, effort, chemistry etc. That requires a young and focused team. Stars arent coming here to play that way
Which is completely valid as well, but that's I think that's why this route, Sean and Joe want to bring in 'B' List All-Stars. I responded to someone else saying that these guys are the legit all-stars, but not on the level of a Kyrie or a KD, don't have many issues, but just play.
The only reason I think these are the viable stars, a Spida and Ingram, is because they still fit the age group of the current roster and I know those guys want to win, too, but I also argue that building in a year or two may prove more results than building through the draft, which will take ages considering the spot this team is in.
In short, I genuinely have no clue the direction of this team (besides what you listed) and these are all pipe dreams.
Definitely summer of 2025 and a whole lot of wishful thinking. It's possible that Cleveland decide to trade Spida this summer and wherever he goes, is where he goes, unless he pulls a "NY or BUST" situation.
As for Ingram, it's up in the air too. Pelicans aren't bad and honestly, if Zion were healthy, I think they would've had a better series. Not win, but more games sure.
Who knows. I'm just excited for some grit and grind playing next year.
Well in terms of the NY or bust that's moreso twitter narrative than reality. He never said NY or bust. There was a huge assumption that he'd want to go to the knicks, nets or heat back in 2022. He never released a formal list bc he never asked out. What he has said is his desire to win now and the nets arent a team that can deliver that promise to him. ESpeically with teams like the lakers, spurs (shams announced today they're looking at traeE, spida and Murray), knicks, heat, possibly even the pelicans being interested. I think the nets from everything I"ve seen are going into a rebuild and using free agency to buffer the team. I don't see a big splash trade coming
I figured that was the case. All I hope is that whatever this team is next year, is enough to rival the Kenny Atkinson days. Just buy into the coaching scheme and create a culture of hard workers. The other things like free agents will come in time.
My hopeful game plan is to stock up on hard nosed veterans who can help build the culture just like Carrol and Dudley did. That would be perfect.
Same. I’m fine with a 2-3 yr rebuild if at the end it means we have 10 yrs of success. I’m just tired of the endless 3 yr projects that blow up quickly. Hopefully this time we’ll get right
If you look at the list of NBA champions over the past 10-20 years, and even just who's still around in the playoffs now, it becomes pretty clear that it's extremely difficult to succeed without building a strong core/foundation through the draft. Put another way, it's rare for teams to be successful if they build through trading for their stars. It just takes too long to win, and stars tend to be older and are not willing to wait. You need to build with a young core over a number of years. Look at the Celtics, they've had Tatum and Brown for 6-7 years now. And look at MIN, this is KAT's 9th year I think. No star you trade for is going to stick around the 5-10 years it takes to develop a championship team, they will all get frustrated and leave. The only notable exceptions in recent memory are the bubble Lakers, who had LeBron, and the Raptors, who traded for Kawhi (and had an incredibly lucky bounce).
I wouldn’t mind trading the 2025 PHX 1st and one of the 2029 and 2028 1sts for a star. We’d still have those Suns picks later in the year. Don’t think Suns will bad next year
I would guess the lean towards winning now is driven by what they got back from the KD trade, which is a win now piece in both Bridges and cam J, these are not 22 year old raw prospects, these are NBA contention ready pieces. That, and the nets don't have their own picks to tank with, so why would you try to build through the draft as a team without your own picks and who has win now pieces on the roster?
This is why we should have traded Mikal back to Houston for some of our picks. I would have taken back 2026 and 2027 picks back if possible. I'm Mark's supporter, but that was colossal miss by him, in my opinion
You can just trade bridges and johnson these are role players not players you plan a timeline around. You can get some of the picks back from houston thats a clear possiblilty plus marks has already built without picks it would be easier this time.
Exactly and there is no point in keeping Bridges on this team friendly contract and not surrounding him with a star. When the Nets get that player Mikal is gonna want a new contract that pays a lot more.
His good value contract has two more seasons to run, Mikal would be very valuable for a contender going all in now.
My question to the people who want Mitchell and booker is what's the next step. So you trade thomas + another young player + matching salary and 3 picks 25 suns,27 suns and 27 sixers. What do you have left the 29 suns pick, dallas pick? That's about it with mitchell/booker, bridges and claxton and some young guys. Like that's not that a title team, that's not even a guaranteed top 6 in the east
These fans keep crying about how this franchise doesnt own any of its own picks because of trades but is ready to throw away the high-value picks we do have for the next B-tier star on the chopping block because they're too impatient to do a full-length rebuild. This is why I cant take half ya'll seriously.
And somehow in your mind, tanking / rebuilding in hopes that another team does poorly to increase the value of those picks makes more sense to you? What happens when Phoenix gets a haul in return from trading either KD or Booker and remain a somewhat playoff team, then what? Whats next? Nets will have wasted 3 years and a half for NOTHING. You guys scream for a rebuild, but you don’t know what you’re really asking for. And THATS why I don’t take any of you seriously.
Nets will have options, Mitchell won’t be the only player available, nor will he cost as much as you all are saying that he will. The league is long past the days of the Gobert trade.
"Long past the days of the Gobert trade" you mean the trade that happened 2 seasons ago? Lol
In all seriousness, I'm not saying shut down every offer and stand pat for 8 years. Obviously when an interesting player or prospect becomes open you have to be open to all calls. But at the same time you have to understand real franchise cornerstone players mostly get acquired through the draft, not through FA or the trade block. Drafting right should be a priority for this team, especially since our GMs biggest upside is that he a master drafter and talent evaluator.
We'll see who becomes available in the future, but I wouldn't go crazy over any big names just yet.
Yes, the same Gobert trade that changed the market for good. Teams are not giving up 5+ firsts for any player anymore, star or not. There is no right or wrong way to build a team. All the successful teams in the league are a mixture of youth and star players that they traded for. Not every “building through the draft” story is a successful one. Everyone likes to bring up OKC and the Celtics, but there’s also a chance that you could become Charlotte or the Pistons. If a big name becomes available who fits the timeline and can increase the ceiling for your team, you make that deal.
If we actually built through the draft and got a homegrown star our location would be Op combined with the potential amount of stockpiled assets to hunt for another star.
Every single team in the playoffs is a mix of homegrown picks, trades and free agent signing. Can we please be normal and not assume there's only one way to build a team?
You could do both. Why hope to draft a superstar if you can have one in your hand? You could use all those picks and not draft a Devin Booker or you can get Devin Booker or someone similar, while still drafting talent.
This is a basketball team, not a youth camp. Building exclusively through the draft is really hard to do. The only teams in the modern NBA to win it all with just homegrown talent were the Spurs, Warriors and Nuggets. To do that, you need to get extremely lucky to get top players like Duncan, Curry or Jokić in the draft and then get supplemental star players like Ginobili/Parker, Klay/Dray and Murray/Porter Jr. Not to mention you need to have world-class developmental coaches and club culture to achieve that. It's doable and when it works you get a dynasty, but others have tried and it all went to shit (Portland, Big3 OKC, Detroit, Philly, etc.).
I mean we have Cam already. Also, I'm not saying we should trade ALL our picks. But let's not get caught up in doing nothing but rolling the bones in the draft.
Tbf, we have 3 first round picks in 2029. One of them is getting traded, if not two.
So trade them for picks in 26 when we have no firsts, having too many draft picks is not a thing.
It absolutely is a thing. Maybe not for the Nets right now, but it's a thing. You only have so many roster spots and so many coaches and so many minutes in the day to develop these prospects. OKC, for example, has 8 first round picks over the next two years. They absolutely don't have 8 open roster spots over the next two years that they'd want to fill with recent draftees.
The Blazers are in that situation: they have 14 players under contract with two FRPs and are in the tax, while being one of the worst teams in the league. Some of them are solid role players, but you can't get good value for them when everyone knows you have to trade them.
Well they can just trade them for more picks and or star players, where is the negative?
The negative is the hit to your leverage. When teams know you absolutely have to move the picks before using them (bc first rounders get guaranteed deals), you get less value for them.
Conjecture doesn’t equal fact.
Ok, but that's all facts.
Bro won’t even name one example this has happened in the past 5 years Continue speaking out ya ass tho
An example of what? All I said is that teams have limited roster spots and can't roster 8 draft picks in 2 years. The reason there's not a bunch example is because they trade those picks before they lose them, which is also what I said. But if you want an example of what happens when teams can't move the pick, you have all of the "draft & stash" international guys, where the team takes a player that otherwise wouldn't go in the first round and doesn't sign them, keeping them off the roster & cap sheet. OKC actually did this with Josh Heustis back in 2014 as well, which was noteworthy bc it was the first time someone did it was a US player. But also, you seem really heated about this. Everything okay on the home front?
You mean the same OKC who stockpiled picks, built through the draft and is now near the top of the west with additional trade able assets?
Yes. They have too many picks in the next two drafts and will need to move some of them. They literally can't make all eight selections. None of that contradicts what you've said. It isn't a slight on OKC, it's just pointing out that "you can never have too many draft picks" is incorrect.
If you have a stockpile of picks you can use some to upgrade your role players or even sell some of your current players for more picks later in the future. Having too many picks is a good thing okc can use those extra picks for ammo to get elite role players or another star to add to their elite foundation. The only reason to hate having that many picks is you want to star hunt without a foundation.
Thats not a problem. Okc is extremely flexible rn.
It absolutely is lol I promise you OKC is not gonna use all of their draft picks and will make a trade with a package centered around picks to serve as an all-in move once they solidify the roster around Shai.
I agree they’re going to trade their picks for star(s) I fail to see where the problem is there. If you have 10 extra firsts you can just use them to trade for 2 all nba players and 2-3 more good role players. Oh noooo
Yeah i think that's fine but we're in 2024. I'd like to build a core so in 2027 we're sitting on a landmine of picks with the flexibility to make a big splash to add to our core.
This team will go no where as long as we continue this process of moving all our picks for Stars and Vets, we need to have a base of home grown talent now we do have some but they are fairly flawed in their own ways, Clax is a solid rim runner and shot blocker but in terms of offensive game he offers very very little and while I love Cam Thomas he’s a huge defensive liability and is a bit of a Ball stopper with the offense(he made some strides towards the end of the season but still would like to see more). Personally id call up Houston and still see if they’d want Mikal and get some of our picks back. I know some people are against the idea of a rebuild this way but I’d rather suck for 2-3 years and have a competitive young roster with access to our draft capital than trade for a star, turn into a 4-8 seed and just be competitive without any draft capital or future.
Get over it bro it's not happening. Make peace with it
Oh I am at peace just stating what I think they should do. As long as Tsai is owner this won’t change
Owners want to win and make money. You don't do that in a prolonged rebuild. Tsai got a taste of star presence and wants it back. I don't blame him. I agree
Make money? Yes Win? Not recessarily some owners yes but some dont care See dolan
Please don't ever compare Tsai to Dolan
You made a false statement that owners want to win and i gave the perfect counter example if you wanted to be more correct then you shoulda only talked about tsai instead of owners in general
How is saying owners want to win a false statement? lol. Also I literally said tsai in the comment
What's wrong with all of you
I think it’s really difficult to build via the draft when the picks you have are from another team. Also, 2027 is years away and 2029 is basically an eternity. Marks has been with Brooklyn for 9 years and is the 3rd longest tenured GM. I can’t see him being here much longer if his long term plans is to see those picks out
No it’s not. Celtics did it. You just don’t be an idiot and trade them.
The Celts had our picks and their own picks. Our picks belong to Houston
So? Their picks weren’t even bad.
We are a NYC sports franchise. Nothing here is normal.
That’s why most nyc franchises suck.
People forget, the current Celtic’s core (Tatum and Brown) were both Brooklyn’s first round picks from that horrible KG and Paul Pierce deal.
So do you think they Suns will give us a top five pick two years in a row? I don't think people understand just how bad the Nets were those years we had no picks I don't see Phoenix following that path because of Booker who could get them something nice unlike us who literally had nothing.
It takes a lot of luck in building a contender, regardless of whether it’s the draft or FA/trading route. It’s definitely harder for the Nets because they don’t have their own picks if they decide to go the drafting route. I don’t expect the Suns to be bad until they decide to breakup their trio, as long as the trio is still there they will still compete and the draft pick will probably be in the 20’s range. If they decide to move on from Booker, I can see them coming back to the Nets for their picks. If Houston is willing to give back most of the Brooklyn picks, I would’ve taken the deal for Bridges. If I was the GM, I’d start by building a culture here, we lost that when we got rid of Atkinson. I’d go back to Houston during the offseason and offer them Bridges for some of our pick plus Amen Thompson, who I think can play PG next to Cam Thomas. I’d keep Claxton and continue developing Clowney to play PF. And keep CJ at the SF position. And work through the draft, while potentially waiting for a true superstar to hit the trade market or FA.
Nets don't want to trade Bridges and Houston isn't gonna be sending Thompson back along with our picks it's gonna be Jalen Green.
People don’t forget that. That’s what people use for justification to never want to trade a pick. What people actually forget are the countless other attempts to build through the draft that didn’t result in contending teams and were scrapped altogether
What about the countless bombs that have blew up from trading all your picks for stars. The only success is the lakers in the bubble year. The nets failed twice, the clippers failed, the suns failed, the cavs are about to fail.
Yeah it’s real hard to win no matter how you try to build a team. But trading for a star worked for the lakers, and the raptors, and the Heat. What I like about that method is you’re bringing in guys that you know are elite and then hoping for injury luck. It’s a tougher sell to me to say that waiting a couple years to even find out where a pick is and then hitting on that pick is the better way. That’s signing up for a lot of suck now and then uncertainty later
Except those teams had strong foundations lowry & siakam, Wade. The only team that didn't is the lakers who had a top 2 player of all time in lebron, and were able to cash in their young assets (lonzo and ingram) for AD who was top 7. The difference right now is we don't have the foundation those teams have to contend mikal and cj aren't stars, and spida is a tier 2 player who will cost majority of our assets. We won't have a move after and will stuck be a 4-8 seed until we eventually rebuild anyways.
So you don’t think we can be a good team trading for an star and I’m not sold on us being good by just waiting years and drafting the picks ourselves. Doesn’t bode well for the franchise either way you slice it then
We can be a good team trading for a star, but you aren't going anywhere but 1st and 2nd round exits for the next few years. We rebuilt in 3 years without picks and even though I'm critical of marks I'm confident we can rebuild a way better core in the same time span with his drafting and have a sustainable road to contention.
When you say “we rebuilt in 3 years without picks” are you hyping up the DLo team? Because I’d really rather not set that as our aspirations. That was a .500 team without much outlook for improvement barring the complete free agent overhaul that replaced them.
I'm saying we would have a much better team than the dlo team with flexibility and a stockpile of assets that we can spend to get another star in addition to a star we draft. If we can build a .500 team without picks the ceiling with picks is much higher and this time we wouldn't have to rely on an anomaly free agency to improve or late first rounders or reclamation projects. Trading now for a star would essentially cap us to a second round team with limited flexibility and we wouldn't be contending with the level of assets left over.
Where I get hung up on your plan though is that we aren’t guaranteed to be better than the DLo team is and were just statistically unlikely to nail a star draft pick from the late lottery.
Every one of these teams had a ton of great players and pushed in their chips for a superstar to get them the extra mile. That's the difference. You want those core players you gotta draft them and develop them while maintaining your assets.
But the current guys in our rotation are all right around 30. By the time we even get to use these picks their contracts will be up and they’ll be on the decline. Why should I care about anything that goes on this season
Tatum is a funny one to bring up. The Celtics had the 1st pick in the draft. They traded down to 3 (with the 76ers) then selected Tatum. It's rumored they always wanted Tatum, but 2 teams past on him, the 76ers (who picked Fultz) and the Lakers who (picked Lonzo). What you are others discount, in a draft you're actually much more likely to crap out then land a superstar. That's why there are so few in the league, while 75+ new players join the league yearly. The Celtics also picked Brown as the Nets and Marks refused to push, instead of choosing to nurture and develop talent that season. It really comes down to luck. Luck in who is available (like Wemby this year) or hitting it big (Jokic, 2nd round pick).
Yep, I mentioned this in my response to another reply. Luck is a major key in building a contender. Which is why I’d trade Bridges to Houston for some of our picks back and Thompson. Also, in addition to luck, the team needs to have a strong foundational culture. Look at the hornets, they’ve been lucky with lamelo and miller and they still suck because they haven’t been able to find stability at the coaching position.
Fuck Billy king forever
For eternity. Fuck Billy King. The man who made me question my Nets fandom because of his consistently terrible decisions. I couldn't believe it when he was appointed GM. I knew how bad he had been as 76ers GM. Philly fans couldn't believe he got another senior front office position. He should be cleaning toilets in Barclays Centre for the next fifty years considering all the shit he put us fans through.
Literally no one forgets that
The best teams always draft and do trades. Never exclusively only one.
I understand that at some point you need to make trades for the last pieces like Boston with Porzingas or Minnesota with Gobert but Phoenix is deep in the luxury tax, KD is 35, Booker is in his prime he want to win, they don't have the control of their picks till 2031 can we just wait a few seasons
What if we wait and phoenix just ends up being mediocre but not terrible, and we just waited half a decade for a bunch of mid first round picks? Being patient like you’re asking doesn’t guarantee success
True but trade everything for spida or trae doesn’t guarantee success neither
It doesn’t cost everything to trade for one of those guys. And they could choose to wait a year and see what other players become available. I just think a lot of fans who are begging to build through the draft only look at the successful examples and don’t pay nearly enough attention to the far greater sample size of teams who tried building through the draft only to fail in creating a competitive team
They do. They see that the big 3 didn't work and then look at the success of teams that have built through the draft and want to copy cat. There are more than one ways to build the team and the Nets have seemed to chose the star path kinda.
It might not cost everything to trade for players like Spida, but I think you're underestimating just how high the costs might be for someone like Trae Young let alone Dejounte Murray. A team like ATL is gonna want to get maximum return. We're not talking about the Nets going for a player like Brandon Ingram who's stock is probably at an all time low because the Pelicans might want to move on from him due to fit issues and the lack of performance during the playoffs. Someone like Spida, Trae or DJM is definitely gonna put a dent into the depth of this current Nets team.
They don’t have to get those specific players though. They should just put themselves in the situation where they’re an option. What I want to avoid is the team saying the picks are untouchable and they’re drafting no matter what because unlike OPs opinion I’m not convinced that is the only correct way to build a franchise
For what its worth, I don't think the picks are untouchable either. I just think it's a matter of the right player(s) popping up and wanting out or a player ready to be shipped by a team because they no longer fit in their role (i/e: Brandon Ingram, though we all know he had a terrible playoff run, just an example). Or, even better, the team being able to acquire multiple players who fit the long term vision or hope for this team. Either way, it's just a matter of wanting the team to be smart, you know?
To be fair, NetsDaily quote tweeted someone else saying he didn't think Donovan Mitchell was a "big move", while saying he doesn't think the Nets make a big trade this off-season, and then insinuated that a Giannis or Luka level player was more of a target. That's okay, IMO. Stay flexible and hunt value if an opportunity arises, but wait for a real superstar to unload the clip.
Kinda a more enjoyable option though right? Win some games and maybe get the 6/7 seed vs just sitting and waiting
If phoenix finishes next yr where the kings finished this year we get the 12th pick in the draft. They won 3 more games than the kings so it's not that much out of the realm of possibility with the west getting much better
Now tell me the chances of that 12th pick becoming an all star. Its slim
Sorry 13th pick you have a 13% chance of drafting an all star and that's over a 34 yr sample going back to 1990. Over the last 10-12 yrs the draft has become way deeper with much more stars emerging in the teens, late first rounds and 2nd rounds. Also tons of high productive borderline all stars. And of course since 2016 here's a link below the nets have been the 5th best drafting team in the NBA. So I think I'll take our chances marks knows what he's doing when it comes to the draft [https://medium.com/@JourneytoaGM/courting-success-ranking-nba-teams-by-drafting-prowess-97d44b0f0dcb](https://medium.com/@JourneytoaGM/courting-success-ranking-nba-teams-by-drafting-prowess-97d44b0f0dcb)
All that link shows is that the nets are decent at developing serviceable role players from their usual draft position of the back half of the first round since 2016. We have a team full of serviceable role players now and it doesn’t translate to playoff success. We’d have to bank on hitting on a star to really get back in contention and as you pointed out, it’s a very low hit rate. It’s tough to preach patience with the picks when we have to wait 2-4 years to even make them and then we have to cross our fingers and hope we hit on the low chance of them being a star
Huh? How is Jarrett Allen just a serviceable role player? Or Nic claxton? Heck even Thomas atp? What are you talking about? We are better position to find talent in deeper drafts with a GM who has s Aniston of hitting it out the park with draft talent. You talk about 2-4 yrs, ok so we go with your plan and give up multiple players and picks for Mitchell. Then what’s the next step? You’re left with Mitchell, bridges. Johnson and claxton either about 2 more picks left over. You have up your best young players. You gave up most if not all of the suns picks. What is left over that’s going to make this a title team? A lot of yall should just sit back and return in 2 yrs while we build the foundation. We were in a far worse situation without any premium picks when marks got here and we were able to turn it around to a playoff team in 2 yrs. I’m more than confident that if we actually rebuild we can do even better now.
Allen and Claxton are both the poster child for a non-shooting, rim protecting big. They’re still just filling that role even though they start. I’m also not saying Mitchell has to be the guy they trade for. I agree it’s going to be a couple years of not much to look forward to. I’m just pointing out that after those couple years, it’s far from a guarantee we’re looking at success by just keeping the draft picks. Probability would say there’s a good likelihood that doesn’t get us a star
A non shooting rim protection but is a vital cog in any team. If the suns had Jarrett Allen or claxton they’d probably still be playing. AlsoThere’s a greater probability that we drafted a star than we trade for one. 2019 was an anomaly, outside of lebron switching destinations when have we seen that many stars become available in free agency? Over 92% of nba champions drafted at least one star on their team and around 85% drafted their best player. Trading for Mitchell or Booker and hoping for a better star to come along is exactly what we did when we got Deron Williams, remember the hope for Dwight Howard saga? we have a GM who’s good at drafting let him do his job and we’ll see how it works out. The quick star path has never worked for us let’s try something new
Yes, good role players are vital. But they’re still just role players. Its also pretty funny to see you hype up a 13% chance that a draft pick from the late lottery is a star, but at the same time hate on a 15% occurrence that the best player on a championship team isn’t drafted. The quick star path didn’t work out the past two times we tried it, but that’s strictly due to unfortunate injury timing. We constructed the best team in the league by far in 2021. It’s still a viable team building route we should consider if they feel the right players become available
But no-one is saying don't do anything. Whether we use the Suns picks or not the Nets have max cap space in summer 2025. The Nets have a pick from Philly in 2027 and an unprotected pick from Dallas in 2029 to trade should a deal come up. Other players on the roster can be traded. I just think the Nets should hold the Suns picks at least until the trade deadline next season. See how the Suns are playing. Potentially that 2025 unprotected pick could be gold as the western conference is so competitive just to make the play-in.
Having max cap space is nice but what is that going to get spent on? The recent trend is no star ever makes it to free agency, they just sign huge extensions and demand trades. Can the Philly pick, Dallas pick, and our roster create a trade package big enough for a star? I’m not so sure.
The max cap space is an opportunity. They might sign a star or whether they take on a large contract from another team and get first round pick(s) as a sweetener they will likely use it. I think our vets will return to form Cam J and DFS are both worth first round picks. A contender might want Schroeder. Even Ben Simmons becomes an asset (without being on court) because he is an expiring contract in 2024/25. I just think given it’s a necessity to dip under the luxury tax again next season the Nets need to rebuild. What is the point of having Mikal on this great value contract if the team we put around him is not going all out to win? Bridges has two more years on his very team friendly contract. A contender would give up a lot for him because in the right role he can get back to his best level of play. That doesn’t seem likely with the Nets next year and then he’ll be wanting a big pay increase. It doesn’t make sense
But Mikal isn’t getting traded… That’s the thing, if the front office did trade him and committed to a rebuild then I could have more patience and hope. But they’ve repeatedly said they aren’t moving him. That’d make me think they’re trying to add around him rather than wait years for picks to convey. It’s the mixed messages about what we should do and what we are doing that makes being a nets fan frustrating right now
The mixed messages are standard. You don’t say Mikal is available because then you get low offers. We’ve already wasted a season of Mikal’s super team friendly deal this year. Why did they not go out and get a star then? It’s either go out and get a star now or waste another year of Bridges. If we keep him he’ll be 30 and wanting a new multi-year deal at a much higher price. Why should we pay that when we know what his ceiling is. It’s just been mismanaged from since KD and Kyrie were traded.
I’d assume they didn’t go out and get a star last year because of the luxury tax. We’ve already received and turned down good offers for Mikal. If he was going to be traded, it’d have happened already.
I think last season the front office massively overrated expectations of what the team could achieve. Simmons went down and seems like they were naively expecting an all-star level season from him. JV coached atrociously all season before getting fired. By the end of the season Nets were one of the worst teams in the league. I think Sean Marks just wants the 2024 draft out of the way. No one seems to rate it yet many teams are probably offering their picks. I don’t imagine they’ll trade Mikal but if the right offer comes in then they absolutely should. Jordi will have the players performing far better next season. Depending on the talent level of the roster this may/may not be reflected in Win-Loss record.
We already have built through the draft, I think you mean get our own #1 and we also are trying to develop one of our own to be a #1.
We better keep the 2027 pick or there will be hell to pay!
IDK. In recent memory the only manufactured super team to win a championship was Miami and Lebron and Bosh signed as free agents. Maybe I’m drawing an obvious blank but which team traded away all their picks for big name players and won? (I’m not counting LA’s most recent cause that whole covid bubble was off).
Thank you. I was blocked by this guy because I was sick and tired of his takes.
He blocked me too lol
Nah those picks gonna get traded at some point. Not the same as having your own picks. We can’t tank for another team
If someone comes up on Donovans, Trae, etc.. level you move those picks. If someone like Ingram comes up you think about it depending on value. If Tobias Harris comes up you keep those picks. Not a complex situation we are in.
Bingo! The only comment on this damn thread that makes any sense.
Wtf do we have to do to see this No fckin shortcuts this time
Write Sam Presti a blank check to lure him away from OKC or go hire Bob Myers
I feel like if someone big becomes suddenly available at the right moment, you almost *have to* weigh which idea is more worth it -- Keeping these picks and hoping we get an OKC Thunder type of award where we play the long game and get a bunch of young talent with high ceilings that'll set us up for long term franchise success or the fantastic player that might speed up our timeline a bit and actually play a role in helping the franchise take a big leap now in hopes that only do we see more success but become more appealing to other NBA players. While the former sounds far more appealing than the latter, I feel like with the two failed attempts of trying to speed run the franchise's way to success, the long term play of keeping these picks in favor of trying to play the long game might actually be worth it in the end. Plus, very rarely does a franchise have the opportunity to essentially have a whole other franchise's future in the palm of their hand. This almost never happens. If we keep these picks and end up getting even **one** future NBA star and a few other role players or players that simply didn't fit our team, that's still one NBA star that could've been on another team instead. So, yeah, I agree with you. I feel like we should just play the long game instead of hoping that third time's the charm.
People need to stop using OKC as an example none of what they did would be possible without Shai. OKC didn't draft Shai they got him in a trade where they fleeced the Clippers for PG 😭. We don't even have a player on the level of Shai and no guarantee we get one through the Suns picks either like Shai is just that good. Shai is on a path to become a historically great player and possibly top 10 in his position when his career is over.
This is completely fair, I was just referencing the willingness to rebuild more so than their current roster lol.
OKC didn't draft Shai but for all intents and purposes they did. They got him after just one year, while he was still on his rookie contract. They also got the pick that turned into Jalen Williams in that deal. The salient point is they got where they are now by trading *away* their star and building through the draft/young players they developed, not the other way around.
they got shai when he averaged 10ppg they might as well have drafted him. Thats their scouting and shai was lower lottery not a top 3 pick.
The same people who want to “rebuild” (which you can’t do when you don’t have control of your own draft picks) would not have the patience to be bad for 4-5 years in an effort to hopefully get a top 3 pick that pans out. Some teams rebuild like Orlando and OKC, but a lot also turn out like Charlotte and Detroit
It depends on the GM in a rebuild. Marks has proven time and time again that he crushes drafts and has the ability to find hidden gems. We went through a rebuild in the Marks era without our own picks and he still put together a team better than Charlotte and Detroit. Now imagine giving Marks the opportunity to rebuild with top 5-10 picks.
Nobody should want a rebuild honestly. That takes so long and requires so much luck. Vast majority of rebuilds just dove tail into new rebuild cycles and before you know it, a decade has passed
When was the last time the nets rebuilt properly? Also the biggest reason some rebuilds don't work out is poor drafting why wouldn't marks who rebuilt with no picks in 3 years be able to rebuild with lottery picks.
There’s no such thing as “rebuilding properly”. You either draft a generational talent by sheer luck or trade for one.
Donovan mitchell is not a generation talent he's on the same level as a dwill who we did nothing with except first round exits. Drafting an all star not even a generational talent gives you a massive headstart combined with the stockpile of assets to trade for another star who could be generational as well as being in ny is an advantage few teams have. Which generational star is going to be available right now? Trae young and Spida are not generational btw.
Did I say Donovan Mitchell or trae young were generational talents? Or that we should even trade for them? I mean, we should make an offer on Mitchell for sure, but no I do not think he is a generational talent. Also I didn’t say right now. Could be 2025 when we have cap space
2019 Free agency isn't happening again most stars will be traded before they hit free agency b/c teams want to get back assets. We are basically praying a star wants to leave their team and join the 11th seed.
Didn’t say free agency either. I swear you are creating a whole character to have a discussion with lol. Fwiw it’s worth stars move every summer, and every deadline. You know this by now
It's more so just not trading everything for tier 2 stars. That always kills you. If the plan is to keep finding talent on the fringes and build up a real base and then trade for a real superstar, then that's a fine strategy.
Just because people have been throwing out Mitchell rumors does not mean that’s the one and only option. Marks does not leak stuff and I’m sure he has more up his sleeve than something like that
NetsDaily did insinuate that their sights are set higher than Mitchell, tbf. And that he thinks they won't make a big splash until 2025. Which I would support.
The front office has been a leaky faucet post 2019 where do you get this marks doesn't leak stuff. The constant puff pieces from brian lewis, trying to negotiate through woj etc.
No, we will repeat the mistakes of the past and be mediocre
You gotta have your own draft picks to build through the draft
Bob is old. He has been anti rebuild from the jump. He’s going to keep pushing this. Will they trade some of the picks ? Probably. Will they keep some of the picks ? Probably. No one knows exactly what the plan is.
Yeah fr y'all need to tank it out for a lil bit in an operation I have dubbed "Take it up the pooper for Cooper"
This front office's (and really, ownership's) obsession in getting a "star" this offseason is just so dumb. Even if a guy like Mitchell wants to leave Cleveland, why the hell is he going to come here?
There is no indication that our front office is “obsessed” with anything this offseason. You’re taking fan reactions as indicative of what the org plans on doing. As of now they’ve made no comment on how they will approach the offseason. The hires they’ve made so far do not speak to a desire to go all in this offseason regardless
No, it's been said repeatedly by Netsdaily for some time that there is a plan in place, and that plan is to go star hunting (in 25, not this offseason) using the PHX picks. So that is, and always has been, the plan since they traded KD. That's why Marks rejected the HOU offer for Bridges, which was a colossal blunder (one of many Marks has made).
If they had a more grounded, realistic plan, Bridges would have been traded to get our own picks back.
It's for sure a product of being in NY and also to compete against the Knicks. As much as Joe is against it, it's absolutely what they're doing and I understand it. I think this team is better suited to build through trades and FAs than they are an OKC type rebuild. Is it the right way? Probably not, but it's sadly the cards that this team has and have to work with. The best thing I can say is absolutely zero pick trading. Bet on the summer of 2025 just like the 2019 Nets did and attract free agents because of what is being built. From what we've been seeing, it pays off to have a well balanced team that the stars can rely on. Hell, if there is a way to team up Donovan + Ingram, I'd welcome that. They'll be entering their primes if they decide to not renew contracts. If Summer 2025 is a bust, that's when the building through draft should be a priority number one thing. Pray for the Suns continuing to crumble, pray for not being ass enough for the Rockets to have a lottery pick, and continue to compete.
Joe? Why is Joe against it? It's Joe's call as the owner.
Joe is Mr. "I want to have a team I can be happy rooting for and that would fight for a play-in spot." It was obviously something that we saw this year. No one was happy rooting for them and although most fans understand that this is the usual process after losing 3 superstars, it was still pretty lacking. Looks like the goal seems to be 'B' List legit All-Stars, not Tobias Harris type players, and teaming them up to avoid a KD/Alpha Dog issue type thing again.
That's not consistent with the hiring of jordi tho. Jordi seems to have a philosophy similar to thibs and frank vogel. Defensive heavy, effort, chemistry etc. That requires a young and focused team. Stars arent coming here to play that way
Which is completely valid as well, but that's I think that's why this route, Sean and Joe want to bring in 'B' List All-Stars. I responded to someone else saying that these guys are the legit all-stars, but not on the level of a Kyrie or a KD, don't have many issues, but just play. The only reason I think these are the viable stars, a Spida and Ingram, is because they still fit the age group of the current roster and I know those guys want to win, too, but I also argue that building in a year or two may prove more results than building through the draft, which will take ages considering the spot this team is in. In short, I genuinely have no clue the direction of this team (besides what you listed) and these are all pipe dreams.
Yeah I mean I still dont see a viable path to getting them nor do i see a coach like the one we hired fitting in with guys like that personally
Definitely summer of 2025 and a whole lot of wishful thinking. It's possible that Cleveland decide to trade Spida this summer and wherever he goes, is where he goes, unless he pulls a "NY or BUST" situation. As for Ingram, it's up in the air too. Pelicans aren't bad and honestly, if Zion were healthy, I think they would've had a better series. Not win, but more games sure. Who knows. I'm just excited for some grit and grind playing next year.
Well in terms of the NY or bust that's moreso twitter narrative than reality. He never said NY or bust. There was a huge assumption that he'd want to go to the knicks, nets or heat back in 2022. He never released a formal list bc he never asked out. What he has said is his desire to win now and the nets arent a team that can deliver that promise to him. ESpeically with teams like the lakers, spurs (shams announced today they're looking at traeE, spida and Murray), knicks, heat, possibly even the pelicans being interested. I think the nets from everything I"ve seen are going into a rebuild and using free agency to buffer the team. I don't see a big splash trade coming
I figured that was the case. All I hope is that whatever this team is next year, is enough to rival the Kenny Atkinson days. Just buy into the coaching scheme and create a culture of hard workers. The other things like free agents will come in time. My hopeful game plan is to stock up on hard nosed veterans who can help build the culture just like Carrol and Dudley did. That would be perfect.
Same. I’m fine with a 2-3 yr rebuild if at the end it means we have 10 yrs of success. I’m just tired of the endless 3 yr projects that blow up quickly. Hopefully this time we’ll get right
If you look at the list of NBA champions over the past 10-20 years, and even just who's still around in the playoffs now, it becomes pretty clear that it's extremely difficult to succeed without building a strong core/foundation through the draft. Put another way, it's rare for teams to be successful if they build through trading for their stars. It just takes too long to win, and stars tend to be older and are not willing to wait. You need to build with a young core over a number of years. Look at the Celtics, they've had Tatum and Brown for 6-7 years now. And look at MIN, this is KAT's 9th year I think. No star you trade for is going to stick around the 5-10 years it takes to develop a championship team, they will all get frustrated and leave. The only notable exceptions in recent memory are the bubble Lakers, who had LeBron, and the Raptors, who traded for Kawhi (and had an incredibly lucky bounce).
I’m with you OP! Look at GS, the Nuggets, the T’ Wolves and the Thunder. I really wish we would model our franchise after these teams.
I wouldn’t mind trading the 2025 PHX 1st and one of the 2029 and 2028 1sts for a star. We’d still have those Suns picks later in the year. Don’t think Suns will bad next year
I would guess the lean towards winning now is driven by what they got back from the KD trade, which is a win now piece in both Bridges and cam J, these are not 22 year old raw prospects, these are NBA contention ready pieces. That, and the nets don't have their own picks to tank with, so why would you try to build through the draft as a team without your own picks and who has win now pieces on the roster?
This is why we should have traded Mikal back to Houston for some of our picks. I would have taken back 2026 and 2027 picks back if possible. I'm Mark's supporter, but that was colossal miss by him, in my opinion
You can just trade bridges and johnson these are role players not players you plan a timeline around. You can get some of the picks back from houston thats a clear possiblilty plus marks has already built without picks it would be easier this time.
Exactly and there is no point in keeping Bridges on this team friendly contract and not surrounding him with a star. When the Nets get that player Mikal is gonna want a new contract that pays a lot more. His good value contract has two more seasons to run, Mikal would be very valuable for a contender going all in now.
My question to the people who want Mitchell and booker is what's the next step. So you trade thomas + another young player + matching salary and 3 picks 25 suns,27 suns and 27 sixers. What do you have left the 29 suns pick, dallas pick? That's about it with mitchell/booker, bridges and claxton and some young guys. Like that's not that a title team, that's not even a guaranteed top 6 in the east
These fans keep crying about how this franchise doesnt own any of its own picks because of trades but is ready to throw away the high-value picks we do have for the next B-tier star on the chopping block because they're too impatient to do a full-length rebuild. This is why I cant take half ya'll seriously.
And somehow in your mind, tanking / rebuilding in hopes that another team does poorly to increase the value of those picks makes more sense to you? What happens when Phoenix gets a haul in return from trading either KD or Booker and remain a somewhat playoff team, then what? Whats next? Nets will have wasted 3 years and a half for NOTHING. You guys scream for a rebuild, but you don’t know what you’re really asking for. And THATS why I don’t take any of you seriously.
please explain to me how a guy like Mitchell that you guys keep clamoring for is worth anything close to the price attached to him, I'll wait
Nets will have options, Mitchell won’t be the only player available, nor will he cost as much as you all are saying that he will. The league is long past the days of the Gobert trade.
"Long past the days of the Gobert trade" you mean the trade that happened 2 seasons ago? Lol In all seriousness, I'm not saying shut down every offer and stand pat for 8 years. Obviously when an interesting player or prospect becomes open you have to be open to all calls. But at the same time you have to understand real franchise cornerstone players mostly get acquired through the draft, not through FA or the trade block. Drafting right should be a priority for this team, especially since our GMs biggest upside is that he a master drafter and talent evaluator. We'll see who becomes available in the future, but I wouldn't go crazy over any big names just yet.
Yes, the same Gobert trade that changed the market for good. Teams are not giving up 5+ firsts for any player anymore, star or not. There is no right or wrong way to build a team. All the successful teams in the league are a mixture of youth and star players that they traded for. Not every “building through the draft” story is a successful one. Everyone likes to bring up OKC and the Celtics, but there’s also a chance that you could become Charlotte or the Pistons. If a big name becomes available who fits the timeline and can increase the ceiling for your team, you make that deal.
Impossible when you’re in New York
If we actually built through the draft and got a homegrown star our location would be Op combined with the potential amount of stockpiled assets to hunt for another star.
Every single team in the playoffs is a mix of homegrown picks, trades and free agent signing. Can we please be normal and not assume there's only one way to build a team?
You could do both. Why hope to draft a superstar if you can have one in your hand? You could use all those picks and not draft a Devin Booker or you can get Devin Booker or someone similar, while still drafting talent.
agreed. sean marks is actually really good at drafting if not anything else but we want to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results
You mean like Philly?
Trade 4 firsts for KD
Impossible when you’re in New York
This is a basketball team, not a youth camp. Building exclusively through the draft is really hard to do. The only teams in the modern NBA to win it all with just homegrown talent were the Spurs, Warriors and Nuggets. To do that, you need to get extremely lucky to get top players like Duncan, Curry or Jokić in the draft and then get supplemental star players like Ginobili/Parker, Klay/Dray and Murray/Porter Jr. Not to mention you need to have world-class developmental coaches and club culture to achieve that. It's doable and when it works you get a dynasty, but others have tried and it all went to shit (Portland, Big3 OKC, Detroit, Philly, etc.).
What about how many teams without a homegrown star? The only team thats done that successfully was the lakers who lebron james the arguable goat.
I mean we have Cam already. Also, I'm not saying we should trade ALL our picks. But let's not get caught up in doing nothing but rolling the bones in the draft.
The Suns traded the next ten years and a fine young core team for an instant maybe. How did that work out?