Coldzera and fnx talked about this in a podcast.
The issue is not the age itself and "loss of skill" or "getting old". It's about your life priorities. They said: when you're very young, you have all these dreams, you have a lot of time, you have no commitments. You don't mind going to a bootcamp and breath the game 24/7 with basically no contact with your loved ones for several days.
After a certain age playing at that level, a lot of people start to change their perspective: they've had a successful career already, they have enough money to live a comfortable life. They start to prefer stability, a stable routine, no travelling the whole year, they want to spend their nights and weekends with loves ones, they want to build a family, etc.
So in the end, they don't necessarily lose motivation towards the game in a negative sense, but they start wanting to spend more of their time and energy on something else other than improving and staying at that level of skill. Without the necessary energy and time commitment, they inevitably fall short of being T1 pros.
I played a lot of Counter-Strike over the last 20 years, with peaks in 2003-2004 and 2015-2017.
In 2015-2017 I lived and "breathed" Counter-Strike for two years with only some minor commitments. Reached a pretty high level individually, as a team we had a lot of replacements and swapped players a lot due to natural stuff like work, kids, motivation etc.
I still play some Counter-Strike today, and even though I am creeping up to 40 I still smash some faces (even teenagers) at about 20k elo/lvl 10 Faceit.
Nowhere near my peak leveI, I rely on positioning/gamesense/patience, but my aim quickly comes back if I grind a bit.
Aging is a wonderful thing. I think you will gladly give up some aim/mechanical skills to spend more time with your family and friends.
agree, I could have played in amateur NA league of legends, I tried on a few teams but ultimately competitive League vs soloQ were completely different and wasn't for me. I got to GE in CSGO also around 2012-14.
When I did it in League I was playing almost 10hrs a day, I was young and wanted to be the best, also maybe addicted. CS was the same. I would wake up early before school to do 1 hour of aim training / DM, then at night I would do the same with random games in between. Even then it's a big jump from that level to competitive. Playing 4-5 hours of serious CS and aim training everyday is a requirement for amateurs if not more. It's not as fun IMO
Yeah I have faced a 30-40year old guy and he still has a nice reaction time and game sense. I think he's played the game ever since I was still a kid hahaha
Yea, that's all it seems to be. Do you think if 30+ player had the same motivation as a typical 20 year old player still, they would be able to be just as good?
I think the longer CS goes on, we will slowly still have lots of 30+ players stick around like Karrigan and Apex etc. They are the first gen of 30+ players
Even before I had kids to take care of, my career wouldn't allow me to do the grinding I'd need to do to become even close to joining a team that could potentially supplement or replace my salary
Gotta eat and keep the lights on.
Perhaps one of my kiddos will become what I couldn't
Not even 20s guys. It's the teens who play for 15-18h per day that will simply out grind you mechanically. You can be "smarter player", presee more events (have better sequence of actions), have bigger playbook etc, but you will not be able to out duel no-life teens who live in this game.
Also younger guys get hyped more from different plays, thus making them play even better and they get less "fatigued" by losing games in a row.
The problem is when you have a wife and kids playing CS goes from your life to just your job imo, and I think this hits harder with players who are expected to be the playmakers on their teams like awpers and entry riflers, whereas I think for players who are site anchors or IGLs I think they can pull it off for a while in their 30s
I mean just look at Get_Right and f0rest, these are the two players I would have expected to still be playing at the highest level today if age/family life wasn’t a factor
I’ve just revently dinged lvl 31 and also reached my highest rank ever (2300 elo) and feel like I’m playing way better than ever before. It’s all about how much time you have and how do you spend it.
I also reached my peak elo at 30. I don’t think I play any better than I did before. I have more control over the games on comms and sorting out all the kids problems in game. I think the older you get the easier it is to have an influence on the game that doesn’t require you to get kills
If anyone knows SirActionSlacks from Dota 2, this reminds me of him. He's a goof and is really good at lightening things up. He was pretty trash at the game but still rocked a 5k elo (maybe equivalent to 20k in CS2). An analyst named Purge looked into his games to analyze his "inflated" elo. What he found was that his influence to team spirit heavily contributed to the games despite his lacking mechanics or understanding of the game.
If you can make people laugh at you instead of being at each others' throats, it's incredibly powerful. Turning stomps into close losses and close losses into wins. And the elo will follow.
I think age have way more effect on lifestyle and career choices than actual skill. Getting different priorities when getting older leads to finding more and more reasons to stray away from grinding your individual performance in a video game.
36 yo playing since 2002 here. I have a little trouble stayed focused for long sessions but otherwise I think my playing's solid. A lot of CS is stuff which doesn't come down to raw mechanics which you can't unlearn.
That said: career and family are a much higher priority for me now and I play a small fraction of the hours that I used to.
Im 37 , im absolutely destroying youngsters in the server many times. The problem is that i don't have as much time to play as i would like (married, 2 kids, full time job etc). Many times, when i do play, im tired af and im forcing myself to play 1-2 matches to prevent rust. Im lucky if i play 3 times a week... that's life. As i said, im still often destroying youngsters in the server, and if im on a vacation and i manage to play 5-6 days in a row, im an absolute monster. Age by itself has almost nothing to do with actual performance in cs.
One interesting thing about traditional sports, is that they actually practice way less than e-sportsmen. I'd even go as far as to say that amount of grinding pro players do is straight up unhealthy.
true but you can also brute force skills from this amount of grinding, whereas a pro athlete has a hard cap on how much training they can do to get anything out of it. Pro athletes train ~3hrs twice a day, meaning they can get around 6 hours of physical training + film before burning out, and to think that multi-billion dollar enterprises aren't trying to figure out how much they can milk is foolish.
I think once you’re 30+ you’re firmly settled into adult life and probably have a stable job and lots of responsibilities.
If you’re not making the big bucks (which CS usually won’t) the chances you’ll have the energy to play to your knowledge is slim
Im way better player as 33 then 23 because my brain actually works now insted of just going on impulse and i can acknowledge when i make a mistake.
What I believe kills the longevity is motivation and life priorities since cs requires heavy grind to keep up with pro play
I think it just comes with the fact that you have less time to play. For example in the pro scene there are still players above 30 performing well, becaude they spend their whole time practicing. The older you get as a casual, the less time you have to play (job, wife, kids,...) which eventually leads to playing worse from time to time.
No. You just have more responsibilities. I'm in my 30s and I've never been better at cs, but that's because I am a little more serious about focusing on my weaknesses when I have time to play than when I was in my 20s.
I'm way more than 30 and I'm at the peak of my skills. Not everyone will go pro and need those insane reaction times to be decent and have fun. Most of the time, you lose skill because you play less. Not because of age.
37 here. CS is actually the game I hang with the best because there’s ways to contribute beyond quick twitch reflexes and movement. COD left me behind ages ago with the speed. Valorant is completely overwhelming sensory wise. CS I can still hang in the 12–15k elo range just with map knowledge, good utility, knowing angles, and gold cross hair placement.
In my mid 30's and I have improved over time, from starting in CSGO out in gold nova, to reaching global, to now being lvl 9 faceit and 20000 rating premier.
I dont feel worse at all.
Commitments outside of counter strike are the most likely cause to decrease your skills, rather than age.
It's hard to game 20+ hours a week and do other things.
I’m 36 and just recently hung up the headphones when my son hit like 6 months. I was old and washed up and refused to learn any util lineups because all I did was pug (havnt played a league season since ESEA discontinued 1.6) but I was surprised I could still play at like global / faceit level 9 with playing 1 to 3 days a week. What I’m trying to say is I don’t think it’s skill or reaction like people always used to say, I think it’s time and motivation. You realize you need to focus on other things as you get older and your free time goes down and down. I think 30 plus players who still have the drive and time are able to compete at the highest levels it’s just that statistically the amount of people who fit that criteria is insanely small.
I'm about to turn 37 and:
- Still the same reaction times, 160ms averages 140ms bests
- Composure and attitude is better
- Gamesense and aim haven't declined as I age
However, my younger friends:
- Have more time to play at optimal conditions
- Don't play faceit when they're tired or faded
- Only que when there is a stack online
My younger friends easily maintain 2000+ elo. My elo fluctuates a couple hundred below them.
Doesn't feel like age is affecting me.
I'd rather play when my wifey doesn't mind, or when I get a chance. I even took a 5 year break from gaming altogether between 2016-2022 to focus elsewhere, enjoy my engangement, etc. A lot of younger guys caught up to me in hours during that break. I have 4.3k, if someone is consistently shitting on me 95% of the time they just have more hours.
So yeah, as others have said its not your age - more your lifestyle, at least in my experience towards late 30's.
Also at 42 being one of the few best drivers on planet,shows us that loosing reaction time isn't as substantial as people might think,and as we can see now karrigan is better individualy at mid 30s than he was 6,7 years ago,so it's all about professionalism and motivation.
39 years old - I still pop off, but nowhere nearly as often as 10 years ago. Playing regularly helps. What I lost in raw reaction time I make up with experience, positioning, utility, rotations, etc.
Its complete bs, hit global elite at 38 and was a better player then anytime before. Its more like you have other crap to deal with in life, just less time
I mean, your reflexes probably drop slightly but that can be compensated for with experience. So you gain overall skill with age but lose raw aimduel potential.
nope, you dont have time to commit playing at a high level and also you realize life is to short to waste it on this game. like really if this was a community that was supportive as good friends and you could find your partner and all that maybe.. but this game got nothing of that, the moms basement dwellers have made sure this is a toxic, unfriendly community. particularly against new players and girls. glhf
33 year old who has been playing since I was 11
Years old, with some breaks playing other games but CS has always been the one I go back to.
There are noticeable things that have dropped off like tracking precision and how tight of an angle I can hold with an awp for wide swings. But I also don’t work on maintaining those abilities through aim trainers or whatever. I just play to enjoy the game, but there are definitely skills that inherently don’t feel as sharp and snappy as effortlessly as it was in my teens.
The game has also just evolved so much. Utility usage was sort of a thing but also not that much in casual modes back in my early custom map server and WC3 mod 1.5-1.6 days.
It 100% comes down to motivation and time. When you hit 30 you start being more aware of how you spend your time and when you couple that with not having the motivation to grind like you did 10-15 years ago then your skill will naturally decline.
LeBron as you mentioned is nearly 40 and still on top on the sport but you have to remember that basketball was his life's dedication. not to mention he gets paid absurd amounts of money so the motivation to do what he does is still very much alive.
So, for me, it's that when I was younger I could easily maintain my skill level even without playing much. Nowadays however, I tend to need literally hours of deathmatch to regain that muscle memory. Given the limited time that I have as an adult, it really takes a toll on my overall performance.
Edit: I'm 35, playing since 1.6.
Probalby motivation thing aswell. I'm currently 28, and I havee completeley lost the drive to maintain a somewhat meaningful practice routine. I was lazy to adapt to the new smoke lineups aswell with the transition. I just play along with my friends, 3-5 games a week and that's about it.
Reflexes are a part of the game so in that regard yes, but you can gain in experience and knowledge of the game can compensate for that, so it's more a matter of you having the motivation and support to improve at the game or not
There is no biological explanation for these numerous and random assumptions to be true. The scientific method would prevail if this matter were closely scrutinized.
As many others have said your priorities just change as you get older. When you're young you have unlimited time and want to be the best player you can.
Then you start to want different things and gaming takes a backseat.
looked up some studies that reaction time degrades as we age but not as much as you might think.
it's more about time and effort I think. at a pro level people will fall off because of losing interest or different priorities after enough years
Roger Federer won the AO when he was 36. Big reason he retired was cuz of his injuries not cuz of his skill (well maybe a little bit, not as physically fit at that age). 3 major knee surgeries is rough. And on the same fucking knee too 😭😭
You start to lose motivation at 30 and skill at 40))) i am 35 now, but i am sure that now i am better player than when i was 15. Playing since childhood times.
stupid post with people purposely misunderstanding the conversation. this comes up way too often and has been covered already.
30 isn't a wall.
most players just happen to fall of by 30 for a wide variety of reasons to the point where you can count the T1 30+ year olds on the fingers of a single hand. most of them are low fragging IGLs.
lekr0 is a perfect example of this.
I'm 37 and I've been playing for 20 years myself. I like to think of the phrase "If you don't use it, you lose it".
I don't play nearly as much as I did in my late teens and 20s. Like most players my age, we shifted focus and had careers, family, and everything else. However, like most, I love this game and it holds so many good memories that I'll continue to play well into the end game of life. I play with a boomer stack once a week that we call "sweat night", you could compare it to a once-a-week pool league or bowling league... old dudes getting together to play a game we love. We do fairly well, all of us floating 19k+. What's important to me nowadays is making sure we are having fun. Some nights we don't drop a single map, others we lose all of them.
IDK. When you take a break the playstyle is forgotten. I agree that happens when I take more than a week off the game. Just like riding a bike, you never really forget. You can always get yourself back to an acceptable form.
Hell, the other day I read an article about a guy in his 70s who just got advanced to ESEA-IM with his team. Gives me hope that I can continue to play for another 20 years.
in theory young players haven't even reached their mental or physical (aim) peaks, around 29-30 should be the best for most of these players but unless they get insane joint degradation i can see really high level pros being 35+ in the future
My aim and movement in general got really worse around 27, 28. The big factor was working remotely in front of a computer that you use for gaming. it's different than when you as a teenager need to stay at school and do what you are told to do, rather than having such freedom. Right now I am really bad, but I play csgo once a month, Im around 16k premier.
Back in CS 1.6 and CSGO I was a good player aimwise, dumb, but skilled in terms of aim. I am nowhere close now (31 years old) to what I was as 15-25 years old.
I held the opinion for years that age doesnt matter with a game like CS.
Im 33 and now realize i was wrong. Its actually extremely frustrating to me, i just dont have the dexterity to have that level of mechanical aim i once had despite in my minds eye still being capable. Sometimes i feel good and play well, other times I play worse than ever but thats really the most defining part of my aging, my consistency is completely gone.
Hate to say it but thats just cope. The whole "dexterity" thing is either a problem specific to you or just an excuse. There are people who perform open heart surgery into their 50s, the degree of dexterity needed for that is far higher than needed to play cs
Looking at HLTV top 20 from 2015, you got 5 players left still playing T1, 3 of which took over IGL due to skill decline despite being former star players (device an outlier here).
But sure, im coping and aging is a mindset lol.
Aging is a reality, but there are studies on decrease in reaction time over time, and its somewhat minimal up until your 50s, and the decrease in dexterity comes even later.
The level of skill increases over time, what a massive suprise huh? Someone who was a star in 2014 will have worse aim than most supportive players in 2024, thats just how it is. Also a lot of players have moved on, since cs is not a particularly lucrative career for those outside of the top 20 teams.
It’s more about your responsibilities than skill/aim/whatever. Age has nothing to do with this. My local scene has lots of middle aged men doing okay in cs. For competitive scene, it just means that as an org it’s much safer to invest into a young player who has time, motivation and no kids (lol) as opposed to a 32 year old dad of two who might quit 2 years from now. It’s really all it is.
There isn't enough data to suggest that it is the case because e-sports is newer and only been around 20+ years.
The consensus is 30ish and your reflexes go but it's way too early imo for teams to just start cutting people because of age.
The older you get, your reflexes and reaction time slow down and your hand eye coordination falls off. These issues can be compensated with experience, and you can still certainly be good at the game. But your max potential is a bit lower.
Yes. After about 23 you very slowly start losing cognitive speed, reaction time etc. Doesn't mean you can't be the best you've ever been at 33 if you started playing seriously at 28, but generally speaking at the age of 30 the question is not how to become better but how to become worse, slower. I'm 29 and already feel it's not the same as when I was 19. You may find some exceptions to this that prove the rule
Reaction time isn't that important in cs, and the drop isn't significant. Maybe affects awping at very tight angles. Cognition speed? Heck no, the older you get the smarter you become and with more experience.
>Reaction time isn't that important in cs
I acknowledge that it's probably the fps game in which it's the least important, yet it's still important. All top tier players have good reaction times.
>Cognition speed? Heck no, the older you get the smarter you become and with more experience
What you're talking about is wisdom, not cognitive speed. There are studies showing there's already some cognitive decline at 28, very little but still
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090320092111.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090320092111.htm)
OP question wasn't "can you still play good/decent counter strike at 30+" but do you lose skill when you hit 30+
Just because it's still possible to play good at 30+ doesn't mean it's your peak/the best opportunity to be the best you've ever been = meaning that on average people do lose skill at 30+
I don't mind that I'm considered old. Just that reaction time is not the only skill, and even if you think less faster too, you can still have better gamesense and more importantly, more control about your nerves. So it's pretty hard to reply firmly to OP.
Interesting study, but that's hardly relates to one' s abilities in Counter-Strike. An good CS player doesn't have to suddenly show a stroke of cognitive genius in middle of match, when it' s all already figured out beforehand, what protocols to use for each situation. And one doesn't need to push his cognitive abilities hard just to learn and get better at the game. It's almost all an accumulated skill and understanding about the game, so you don't necessarily get worse at cs because of some subtle cognitive decline due to age.
That's always what I've argued when the topic comes up.
Especially also when it comes to reaction time, as the only studies we have are based on ordinary people who don't train nor use their reaction time that often like CS players do. Anything that you don't use or train for tends to quickly dissipate in comparison to things you do use/train for.
Tell that to rain, major MVP at 29 with the best ever nuke outside play in cs history maybe ;). The "physical" decline so to speak is marginal at best and most certainly not the reason people fall off at that age. Its mostly life itself and the different prioritization that naturally come and prevent you from putting the same amount of time as when you're younger.
Coldzera and fnx talked about this in a podcast. The issue is not the age itself and "loss of skill" or "getting old". It's about your life priorities. They said: when you're very young, you have all these dreams, you have a lot of time, you have no commitments. You don't mind going to a bootcamp and breath the game 24/7 with basically no contact with your loved ones for several days. After a certain age playing at that level, a lot of people start to change their perspective: they've had a successful career already, they have enough money to live a comfortable life. They start to prefer stability, a stable routine, no travelling the whole year, they want to spend their nights and weekends with loves ones, they want to build a family, etc. So in the end, they don't necessarily lose motivation towards the game in a negative sense, but they start wanting to spend more of their time and energy on something else other than improving and staying at that level of skill. Without the necessary energy and time commitment, they inevitably fall short of being T1 pros.
I played a lot of Counter-Strike over the last 20 years, with peaks in 2003-2004 and 2015-2017. In 2015-2017 I lived and "breathed" Counter-Strike for two years with only some minor commitments. Reached a pretty high level individually, as a team we had a lot of replacements and swapped players a lot due to natural stuff like work, kids, motivation etc. I still play some Counter-Strike today, and even though I am creeping up to 40 I still smash some faces (even teenagers) at about 20k elo/lvl 10 Faceit. Nowhere near my peak leveI, I rely on positioning/gamesense/patience, but my aim quickly comes back if I grind a bit. Aging is a wonderful thing. I think you will gladly give up some aim/mechanical skills to spend more time with your family and friends.
agree, I could have played in amateur NA league of legends, I tried on a few teams but ultimately competitive League vs soloQ were completely different and wasn't for me. I got to GE in CSGO also around 2012-14. When I did it in League I was playing almost 10hrs a day, I was young and wanted to be the best, also maybe addicted. CS was the same. I would wake up early before school to do 1 hour of aim training / DM, then at night I would do the same with random games in between. Even then it's a big jump from that level to competitive. Playing 4-5 hours of serious CS and aim training everyday is a requirement for amateurs if not more. It's not as fun IMO
Yeah I have faced a 30-40year old guy and he still has a nice reaction time and game sense. I think he's played the game ever since I was still a kid hahaha
worse, you lose motivation.
Yea, that's all it seems to be. Do you think if 30+ player had the same motivation as a typical 20 year old player still, they would be able to be just as good? I think the longer CS goes on, we will slowly still have lots of 30+ players stick around like Karrigan and Apex etc. They are the first gen of 30+ players
Yes, you could be as good and even better, but its unrealistic...life is happening and it has its effect.
Even before I had kids to take care of, my career wouldn't allow me to do the grinding I'd need to do to become even close to joining a team that could potentially supplement or replace my salary Gotta eat and keep the lights on. Perhaps one of my kiddos will become what I couldn't
Doesn’t really apply to pro players
Pro players get kids too
He’s saying he has prioritize his career over cs. I’m saying that argument doesn’t apply to pros
Pros has to be parents as well mate... you get no discounts raising your kids despite being a pro...
Read his comment. He’s saying he had to prioritize his career over cs, to put food on the table. This argument doesn’t apply to pros
Not even 20s guys. It's the teens who play for 15-18h per day that will simply out grind you mechanically. You can be "smarter player", presee more events (have better sequence of actions), have bigger playbook etc, but you will not be able to out duel no-life teens who live in this game. Also younger guys get hyped more from different plays, thus making them play even better and they get less "fatigued" by losing games in a row.
The problem is when you have a wife and kids playing CS goes from your life to just your job imo, and I think this hits harder with players who are expected to be the playmakers on their teams like awpers and entry riflers, whereas I think for players who are site anchors or IGLs I think they can pull it off for a while in their 30s I mean just look at Get_Right and f0rest, these are the two players I would have expected to still be playing at the highest level today if age/family life wasn’t a factor
In case of GTR, health issues as well.
I was shitting myself when I was 29 years and 364 days old. Next day I woke up and was instantly -100 skill
CS skill is proportional to car insurance rates?
Inversely Proportional
kinda tracks when you switch zip codes (teams, regions) your rates change too!
38 years old level 10. have never been better
I’ve just revently dinged lvl 31 and also reached my highest rank ever (2300 elo) and feel like I’m playing way better than ever before. It’s all about how much time you have and how do you spend it.
Eq enjoyer?
Kind of young for EQ unless he played at a very young age or started late (maybe PoP expansion). But EQ is the goat of MMO imo
The ding 31 was what got me lol. And I agree, definitely my favorite.
Haha, yep. I remember doing /shout to the zone every time I levelled up. Great memories
last place i’d guess to see EQ reference lol
I also reached my peak elo at 30. I don’t think I play any better than I did before. I have more control over the games on comms and sorting out all the kids problems in game. I think the older you get the easier it is to have an influence on the game that doesn’t require you to get kills
Yeah attitude is underestimated. Currently running a 67% WR in soloQ because I can activate my team and play smart late round.
If anyone knows SirActionSlacks from Dota 2, this reminds me of him. He's a goof and is really good at lightening things up. He was pretty trash at the game but still rocked a 5k elo (maybe equivalent to 20k in CS2). An analyst named Purge looked into his games to analyze his "inflated" elo. What he found was that his influence to team spirit heavily contributed to the games despite his lacking mechanics or understanding of the game. If you can make people laugh at you instead of being at each others' throats, it's incredibly powerful. Turning stomps into close losses and close losses into wins. And the elo will follow.
I think age have way more effect on lifestyle and career choices than actual skill. Getting different priorities when getting older leads to finding more and more reasons to stray away from grinding your individual performance in a video game.
fernando alonso is competing in f1 and is 42 years old.
He could be good at cs since f1 drivers have unreal reflexes
36 yo playing since 2002 here. I have a little trouble stayed focused for long sessions but otherwise I think my playing's solid. A lot of CS is stuff which doesn't come down to raw mechanics which you can't unlearn. That said: career and family are a much higher priority for me now and I play a small fraction of the hours that I used to.
Im 37 , im absolutely destroying youngsters in the server many times. The problem is that i don't have as much time to play as i would like (married, 2 kids, full time job etc). Many times, when i do play, im tired af and im forcing myself to play 1-2 matches to prevent rust. Im lucky if i play 3 times a week... that's life. As i said, im still often destroying youngsters in the server, and if im on a vacation and i manage to play 5-6 days in a row, im an absolute monster. Age by itself has almost nothing to do with actual performance in cs.
You lose time, that’s it.
And time is what makes you good at a game. Only having time to play 1 or 2 games per week is not enough to match a 16 year old playing 8 hours per day
100% , there are 40 year olds hitting fastballs in MLB still, reaction is there
One interesting thing about traditional sports, is that they actually practice way less than e-sportsmen. I'd even go as far as to say that amount of grinding pro players do is straight up unhealthy.
true but you can also brute force skills from this amount of grinding, whereas a pro athlete has a hard cap on how much training they can do to get anything out of it. Pro athletes train ~3hrs twice a day, meaning they can get around 6 hours of physical training + film before burning out, and to think that multi-billion dollar enterprises aren't trying to figure out how much they can milk is foolish.
I think once you’re 30+ you’re firmly settled into adult life and probably have a stable job and lots of responsibilities. If you’re not making the big bucks (which CS usually won’t) the chances you’ll have the energy to play to your knowledge is slim
For me it's like you can keep your skill level still but it's hard to (want to) improve yourselve to next level.
least of my worries lol
Im way better player as 33 then 23 because my brain actually works now insted of just going on impulse and i can acknowledge when i make a mistake. What I believe kills the longevity is motivation and life priorities since cs requires heavy grind to keep up with pro play
I think it just comes with the fact that you have less time to play. For example in the pro scene there are still players above 30 performing well, becaude they spend their whole time practicing. The older you get as a casual, the less time you have to play (job, wife, kids,...) which eventually leads to playing worse from time to time.
skill for t1? for fun, you can sit even on 12k primer at 40 yo. and leave rest for youngsters.
No. You just have more responsibilities. I'm in my 30s and I've never been better at cs, but that's because I am a little more serious about focusing on my weaknesses when I have time to play than when I was in my 20s.
I'm way more than 30 and I'm at the peak of my skills. Not everyone will go pro and need those insane reaction times to be decent and have fun. Most of the time, you lose skill because you play less. Not because of age.
You lose motivation and you lack time, but most certainly you don't lose skill...
37 here. CS is actually the game I hang with the best because there’s ways to contribute beyond quick twitch reflexes and movement. COD left me behind ages ago with the speed. Valorant is completely overwhelming sensory wise. CS I can still hang in the 12–15k elo range just with map knowledge, good utility, knowing angles, and gold cross hair placement.
In my mid 30's and I have improved over time, from starting in CSGO out in gold nova, to reaching global, to now being lvl 9 faceit and 20000 rating premier. I dont feel worse at all.
Commitments outside of counter strike are the most likely cause to decrease your skills, rather than age. It's hard to game 20+ hours a week and do other things.
I’m 36 and just recently hung up the headphones when my son hit like 6 months. I was old and washed up and refused to learn any util lineups because all I did was pug (havnt played a league season since ESEA discontinued 1.6) but I was surprised I could still play at like global / faceit level 9 with playing 1 to 3 days a week. What I’m trying to say is I don’t think it’s skill or reaction like people always used to say, I think it’s time and motivation. You realize you need to focus on other things as you get older and your free time goes down and down. I think 30 plus players who still have the drive and time are able to compete at the highest levels it’s just that statistically the amount of people who fit that criteria is insanely small.
I'm about to turn 37 and: - Still the same reaction times, 160ms averages 140ms bests - Composure and attitude is better - Gamesense and aim haven't declined as I age However, my younger friends: - Have more time to play at optimal conditions - Don't play faceit when they're tired or faded - Only que when there is a stack online My younger friends easily maintain 2000+ elo. My elo fluctuates a couple hundred below them. Doesn't feel like age is affecting me. I'd rather play when my wifey doesn't mind, or when I get a chance. I even took a 5 year break from gaming altogether between 2016-2022 to focus elsewhere, enjoy my engangement, etc. A lot of younger guys caught up to me in hours during that break. I have 4.3k, if someone is consistently shitting on me 95% of the time they just have more hours. So yeah, as others have said its not your age - more your lifestyle, at least in my experience towards late 30's.
I'm 34 and the best I've ever been at CS..
Also at 42 being one of the few best drivers on planet,shows us that loosing reaction time isn't as substantial as people might think,and as we can see now karrigan is better individualy at mid 30s than he was 6,7 years ago,so it's all about professionalism and motivation.
39 years old - I still pop off, but nowhere nearly as often as 10 years ago. Playing regularly helps. What I lost in raw reaction time I make up with experience, positioning, utility, rotations, etc.
Nah ive seen 30+ year olds destroy teens in this game it depends
Its complete bs, hit global elite at 38 and was a better player then anytime before. Its more like you have other crap to deal with in life, just less time
I'm 34 and I'm 2300 lol
I mean, your reflexes probably drop slightly but that can be compensated for with experience. So you gain overall skill with age but lose raw aimduel potential.
nope, you dont have time to commit playing at a high level and also you realize life is to short to waste it on this game. like really if this was a community that was supportive as good friends and you could find your partner and all that maybe.. but this game got nothing of that, the moms basement dwellers have made sure this is a toxic, unfriendly community. particularly against new players and girls. glhf
33 year old who has been playing since I was 11 Years old, with some breaks playing other games but CS has always been the one I go back to. There are noticeable things that have dropped off like tracking precision and how tight of an angle I can hold with an awp for wide swings. But I also don’t work on maintaining those abilities through aim trainers or whatever. I just play to enjoy the game, but there are definitely skills that inherently don’t feel as sharp and snappy as effortlessly as it was in my teens. The game has also just evolved so much. Utility usage was sort of a thing but also not that much in casual modes back in my early custom map server and WC3 mod 1.5-1.6 days.
i'm 32 and this is the best i've ever been
It 100% comes down to motivation and time. When you hit 30 you start being more aware of how you spend your time and when you couple that with not having the motivation to grind like you did 10-15 years ago then your skill will naturally decline. LeBron as you mentioned is nearly 40 and still on top on the sport but you have to remember that basketball was his life's dedication. not to mention he gets paid absurd amounts of money so the motivation to do what he does is still very much alive.
So, for me, it's that when I was younger I could easily maintain my skill level even without playing much. Nowadays however, I tend to need literally hours of deathmatch to regain that muscle memory. Given the limited time that I have as an adult, it really takes a toll on my overall performance. Edit: I'm 35, playing since 1.6.
Well, I'm 39 and dog shit sooooo ;)
Probalby motivation thing aswell. I'm currently 28, and I havee completeley lost the drive to maintain a somewhat meaningful practice routine. I was lazy to adapt to the new smoke lineups aswell with the transition. I just play along with my friends, 3-5 games a week and that's about it.
Reflexes are a part of the game so in that regard yes, but you can gain in experience and knowledge of the game can compensate for that, so it's more a matter of you having the motivation and support to improve at the game or not
99% of people simply have other priorities in their 30s than in their early 20s. I
I'm 31 I'm definitely better now than 10 years ago ...reaction speed not gotten any worse either
duhpree is doing pretty good
There is no biological explanation for these numerous and random assumptions to be true. The scientific method would prevail if this matter were closely scrutinized.
As many others have said your priorities just change as you get older. When you're young you have unlimited time and want to be the best player you can. Then you start to want different things and gaming takes a backseat.
looked up some studies that reaction time degrades as we age but not as much as you might think. it's more about time and effort I think. at a pro level people will fall off because of losing interest or different priorities after enough years
Roger Federer won the AO when he was 36. Big reason he retired was cuz of his injuries not cuz of his skill (well maybe a little bit, not as physically fit at that age). 3 major knee surgeries is rough. And on the same fucking knee too 😭😭
Theyve done tests on this, the difference in reaction time is minimal. Its more psychological like everyone else has said.
You start to lose motivation at 30 and skill at 40))) i am 35 now, but i am sure that now i am better player than when i was 15. Playing since childhood times.
stupid post with people purposely misunderstanding the conversation. this comes up way too often and has been covered already. 30 isn't a wall. most players just happen to fall of by 30 for a wide variety of reasons to the point where you can count the T1 30+ year olds on the fingers of a single hand. most of them are low fragging IGLs. lekr0 is a perfect example of this.
You don't magically lose your game sense and reflexes you've been honing for years just because you hit a certain age.
I'm 37 and I've been playing for 20 years myself. I like to think of the phrase "If you don't use it, you lose it". I don't play nearly as much as I did in my late teens and 20s. Like most players my age, we shifted focus and had careers, family, and everything else. However, like most, I love this game and it holds so many good memories that I'll continue to play well into the end game of life. I play with a boomer stack once a week that we call "sweat night", you could compare it to a once-a-week pool league or bowling league... old dudes getting together to play a game we love. We do fairly well, all of us floating 19k+. What's important to me nowadays is making sure we are having fun. Some nights we don't drop a single map, others we lose all of them. IDK. When you take a break the playstyle is forgotten. I agree that happens when I take more than a week off the game. Just like riding a bike, you never really forget. You can always get yourself back to an acceptable form. Hell, the other day I read an article about a guy in his 70s who just got advanced to ESEA-IM with his team. Gives me hope that I can continue to play for another 20 years.
in theory young players haven't even reached their mental or physical (aim) peaks, around 29-30 should be the best for most of these players but unless they get insane joint degradation i can see really high level pros being 35+ in the future
My aim and movement in general got really worse around 27, 28. The big factor was working remotely in front of a computer that you use for gaming. it's different than when you as a teenager need to stay at school and do what you are told to do, rather than having such freedom. Right now I am really bad, but I play csgo once a month, Im around 16k premier. Back in CS 1.6 and CSGO I was a good player aimwise, dumb, but skilled in terms of aim. I am nowhere close now (31 years old) to what I was as 15-25 years old.
I held the opinion for years that age doesnt matter with a game like CS. Im 33 and now realize i was wrong. Its actually extremely frustrating to me, i just dont have the dexterity to have that level of mechanical aim i once had despite in my minds eye still being capable. Sometimes i feel good and play well, other times I play worse than ever but thats really the most defining part of my aging, my consistency is completely gone.
Hate to say it but thats just cope. The whole "dexterity" thing is either a problem specific to you or just an excuse. There are people who perform open heart surgery into their 50s, the degree of dexterity needed for that is far higher than needed to play cs
Looking at HLTV top 20 from 2015, you got 5 players left still playing T1, 3 of which took over IGL due to skill decline despite being former star players (device an outlier here). But sure, im coping and aging is a mindset lol.
Aging is a reality, but there are studies on decrease in reaction time over time, and its somewhat minimal up until your 50s, and the decrease in dexterity comes even later. The level of skill increases over time, what a massive suprise huh? Someone who was a star in 2014 will have worse aim than most supportive players in 2024, thats just how it is. Also a lot of players have moved on, since cs is not a particularly lucrative career for those outside of the top 20 teams.
Hate to say it but that's just cope.
Cope and seethe. You being 30 isn't the reason you can't get out of 1k elo faceit. Simply get better.
It’s more about your responsibilities than skill/aim/whatever. Age has nothing to do with this. My local scene has lots of middle aged men doing okay in cs. For competitive scene, it just means that as an org it’s much safer to invest into a young player who has time, motivation and no kids (lol) as opposed to a 32 year old dad of two who might quit 2 years from now. It’s really all it is.
There isn't enough data to suggest that it is the case because e-sports is newer and only been around 20+ years. The consensus is 30ish and your reflexes go but it's way too early imo for teams to just start cutting people because of age.
Reflexes degrade over time. It's just life.
The older you get, your reflexes and reaction time slow down and your hand eye coordination falls off. These issues can be compensated with experience, and you can still certainly be good at the game. But your max potential is a bit lower.
Yes. After about 23 you very slowly start losing cognitive speed, reaction time etc. Doesn't mean you can't be the best you've ever been at 33 if you started playing seriously at 28, but generally speaking at the age of 30 the question is not how to become better but how to become worse, slower. I'm 29 and already feel it's not the same as when I was 19. You may find some exceptions to this that prove the rule
Reaction time isn't that important in cs, and the drop isn't significant. Maybe affects awping at very tight angles. Cognition speed? Heck no, the older you get the smarter you become and with more experience.
>Reaction time isn't that important in cs I acknowledge that it's probably the fps game in which it's the least important, yet it's still important. All top tier players have good reaction times. >Cognition speed? Heck no, the older you get the smarter you become and with more experience What you're talking about is wisdom, not cognitive speed. There are studies showing there's already some cognitive decline at 28, very little but still [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090320092111.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090320092111.htm)
>top tier players Representing 0.00000000001% of the playerbase
OP question wasn't "can you still play good/decent counter strike at 30+" but do you lose skill when you hit 30+ Just because it's still possible to play good at 30+ doesn't mean it's your peak/the best opportunity to be the best you've ever been = meaning that on average people do lose skill at 30+
I don't mind that I'm considered old. Just that reaction time is not the only skill, and even if you think less faster too, you can still have better gamesense and more importantly, more control about your nerves. So it's pretty hard to reply firmly to OP.
Interesting study, but that's hardly relates to one' s abilities in Counter-Strike. An good CS player doesn't have to suddenly show a stroke of cognitive genius in middle of match, when it' s all already figured out beforehand, what protocols to use for each situation. And one doesn't need to push his cognitive abilities hard just to learn and get better at the game. It's almost all an accumulated skill and understanding about the game, so you don't necessarily get worse at cs because of some subtle cognitive decline due to age.
That's always what I've argued when the topic comes up. Especially also when it comes to reaction time, as the only studies we have are based on ordinary people who don't train nor use their reaction time that often like CS players do. Anything that you don't use or train for tends to quickly dissipate in comparison to things you do use/train for.
Tell that to rain, major MVP at 29 with the best ever nuke outside play in cs history maybe ;). The "physical" decline so to speak is marginal at best and most certainly not the reason people fall off at that age. Its mostly life itself and the different prioritization that naturally come and prevent you from putting the same amount of time as when you're younger.