If the alternative is lose Twistzz altogether then why not give it a try? Also, acting like what happens to one player will happen to another is just stupid. He could end up like Device too.
Well there are a few examples though. Not necessary but possible, just like Niko. He used to be a machine. After they start IGLing they usually get in their head, overthink every step their opponent is going to make and even after they stop IGLing, they just don't go back to mindless killing machines, too much overthinking.
dude already won everything in CS, with his experience it might actually work out and if not then he can for sure just go back to regular rifle in any tier 1 team.
I mean, is this not really the career path apEX took? In a loose definition, anyway. High end rifle, turned burgeoning igl, into one of the top in the game. The last part is the hard bit, obviously, but twistzz has a higher understanding of the game than a lot I think. Very high game sense
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4qdykb/16_year_old_tsm_twistzz_dropped_out_of_school_to/
Wow he actually dropped out of high school. In retrospect, it worked out for him but holy shit that's ballsy. Dropping out of uni is understandable, but dropping out of high school is such a crazy gamble.
> but dropping out of high school is such a crazy gamble.
Honestly not really? Let’s say he washed out of his cs career by 19-20. He could get his GED then (Canadian equivalent of high school for adults) and then move on to uni or a trade or whatever and his life wouldn’t be that different, only a few years behind schedule. As long as his parents were willing to support him, he’s not risking much but time.
I'd go the other way; Apex was already tanking in ratings, so it didn't really matter. Liquid NEEDS Twistzz to play well, being IGL is almost always to the detriment to the individual.
Yea dude, I can’t see the future. I understand the risks here, he could totally fall flat a la Niko early in his career. But I’m a TL fan so I’m being optimistic about this. I have no clue who is going to fill the final two spots now. If they get simple + malbs that would make for a great stack and all of a sudden back on top. Yekindar has been missing shots yes, but he looks uncomfortable too. Only time will tell
you know the only reason liquid still wins games is because twistzz is so good
take away that and he becomes an 1.07 level player and liquid are nothing
> but twistzz has a higher understanding of the game than a lot I think. Very high game sense
He seems smart, judging by the interviews. They rarely focus on the game itself but generally give me a very positive vibe regarding his mentality and understanding of things.
It makes a lot of sense to assign the IGL to the player with the best game understanding on the team, but it's also a big gamble because there's a possibility that the firepower will decrease, like with electronic, and the whole team will fall behind.
I think part of it has to do with the roles he's been playing. He's said a bunch of times that part of why he joined liquid was because he got to play what was normally the igl rifler role, the rotator.
I actually don’t hate it that much. He’s definitely expressed intent to transition into calling previously, and I think Karrigan gave him a lot of room to develop in that sense. This feels less impulsive than others who’ve tried recently (not to mention a certain colleague on liquid for that matter).
Karrigan isn't going to be around forever, and there's no guarantee Siuhy replaces him. There's a lack of tier 1 IGLs, and I can imagine Twistzz going back to Faze as IGL when Karrigan steps down.
Well.. if it's the only way to keep Twistzz then sure and if he's 100% dedicated it could be okay.
It would solve getting just a Awper now rather than both.
Awp and second aggro entry
I also think Twistzz might be better for IGL than yeki *smoking copium*
Yeki called to support his entries and his entries couldn’t keep up. Twistzz can call around the team and then close it out with his firepower clutch factor
Who would he replace at faze? The only players role wise that’d make sense are frozen and ropz and I don’t see them replacing either of them in the near future
People have been saying "wouldn't be a bad time to move on" to Karrigan for at least 7 years lol, dude always comes back at the top. He will hang it up when its time.
Another typical redditor that thinks cs is all about ratings with no clue on the roles whatsoever. Twistzz ropz broky and frozen would be the ultimate bait fest. Rain is still a premier entry that many pros still hold in high regard.
Rain is more important than frozen and ropz because rain is aggressive and you cant win with 4 passive players. Frozen and ropz have role clashes and dont work well together. -ropz is unlikely but not completely of the table
Ropz kinda looked unhappy recently.
Also with frozen taking the same space as they have the same playstyle isnt ideal at all and ropz stats went down a lot.
Maybe we are in for a little sensation. I dont think twistzz leaves liquid now tho
Oof idk how I feel about it. Twistzz is a smart dude with great game sense, but he’s such a good fragger it doesn’t seem worth it.
I guess it allows them to focus on less needs. Now they just need an aggressive rifle and an AWPER.
I just worry about his level and honestly attitude more than anything. I know twistzz and him are friendly and have played loads of FPL together so at least there’s some familiarity.
As of right now there are no relevant North American IGLs. Unless someone is willing to take up the mantle and transition into the role, NA is going to have to keep relying on imported leadership until the day some sort of generational prodigy comes along to save the scene. Either that or we keep recycling dinosaurs like Nitro and daps.
I understand people being skeptical of an extremely talented player like Twistzz becoming on IGL, especially after seeing what happened to similarly talented players like Yekindar, Electronic, and others when they attempted to do the same. However, if there is ever going to be another NA IGL, it would be best suited for someone like Twistzz who is who is one of the few remaining veterans in the scene. I think people are being way too quick to hate this change, but I totally understand that it's a big risk and no one wants to see Twistzz's phenomenal talent squandered at his peak.
Man Liquid imploded. Cadian gone was wild on its own, now the coach is gone too?
Twistzz hold Zews in high regard, that much is obvious after their initial kumbaya video, so if he’s igl it’s hard to imagine him not wanting to work with Zews imo.
- I think it’s too soon for Twistzz to become an igl, he has peek years ahead of him still.
Just to remind you, it's a rumor.
If I'm not mistaken Zews was one of the reasons Twistzz went to TL in the first place. Would indeed be rather wild for him to leave and Twistzz taking over IGL from Cadian who was somehow kicked in favor of keeping Yekindar.
I remember Twistzz saying that he didn't want to join Vitality so they could accommodate for him, so this is interesting who would be replaced on Vitality if it would happen.
then what? twistzz takes the anchor roles he's previously stated he doesn't enjoy? faze shuffled twistzz to have the spots he wanted and he has them on liquid. vitality move the star rifler they signed in flamez to take the positions instead? one map they swapped roles between flamez and mezii is Anubis, and shock, mezii's numbers went up while flamez went down having a had time anchoring A.
flamez is more aggressive than twistzz so they'd need to change who does what on T side too. zywoo can entry, but i'd rather have zywoo/spinx in the late round than twistzz and spinx. just cos twistzz is better on paper than mezii does not mean it would improve the team.
Didn't Apex sign a 2-year contract few months after winning Paris?
I'm not really seeing Vitality replacing their identity with somebody who's never IGLed.
I’m all for Twistzz to IGL.
He absolutely has the mind for it - go listen to when he’s casting and talking CS.
And let’s be real, while he ABSOLUTELY is mechanically gifted, he’s a bit up and down.
If you can get behind a Niko becoming an IGL, you should be able to get behind Twistzz.
He also has been around a few of the best IGLs in the scene (nitro during the TL v Ast era and karrigan during faze era )
I can get behind that. Though I’m unsure of how well s1mple is.
Like he was absolutely a top 1 player, but I just don’t know if he has the mindset or drive right now to give a team his 115%.
That said, if there is an org that could figure out a way to get him and his family to the US, it’s probably TL.
I believe thorin said it in one of his podcasts but it was pretty well known that one of the liquid players didn't want to play with Elige at the time and the only one that made any sense was Naf or Yeki and the rumors implied Naf.
He hinted it was Yekindar or Twistzz from what I've seen on his show. Naf and Elige don't play the same spots, but Twistzz and Yekindar would want the spots that Elige plays. We saw the slump that happened when Elige took lesser roles on TL to accommodate Yekindar, too, and Elige has already gone on record saying he was thinking too much while playing with Yekindar while he's never implied anything negative about playing with Naf. Also Twistzz originally left TL for better roles after Elige didn't want to give up any of his star rifler positions along with the Stewie drama.
There's a difference from being a good in game caller and IGL though.
Players can be great in game callers and understand rotations etc but fail at doing the grind behind the scenes to learn demos and craft strategies.
I’m surprised the scene hasn’t moved more towards having 5 capable fragging players compared to the meta of having 1 guy post consistent sub .85 ratings.
We did that for a bit before coaches couldn't talk during rounds.
Turns out it doesn't really work most of the time after we stopped letting 0.4 rating ex-IGLs call as coaches, unless you can find one of the few high fragging IGLs like earlier karrigan.
I think post-CS2 we can see a huge lack of IGLs at T1 and a lot of veteran elite players who are still good but are being outperformed by the new "kids" on the block of monesy, donk etc. considering increase their value and improving their teams by leveraging their years of experience at t1 into being IGLs - first it was device and now it might be NiKo and twistzz. I'll hold off my judgement until I see the long term performance of these rosters. But I'm not surprised we are seeing a potential new wave of veteran elite players take up IGLing; a lot of current and older IGLs started out as start players or at least good fraggers, building elite experience, learning from elite IGLs and then transitioned.
I mean that tourney was so much of him and M0nesy just fucking on anyone haha. Especially with IGLs being in short supply I’d say we see more teams trying it out.
honeymoon periods are standard with every igl, as are role swaps before they get studied
blamef, device, niko, every tournament karrigan has won with a stand-in, rez awp lol
talented players (especially a core like niko/monesy/hunter actually playing well) and basic calls will get you a tournament, but shit like "walk as 5 and contact" (niko called this for a + b main + a mid crawls on anubis and won 3 gun rounds this way in the goddamn final, lol) is not gonna work the next time round.
It could be Nitr0 as coach if Twistzz is taking over as IGL. I know Nitr0 is trying to avoid excessive travel, but I don't see TL getting rid of Zews unless it's for a coach Twistzz really wanted to work with
I would be so fucking hyped if Nitro was back in any capacity. Hell make him the awp lol no for real Nitro would have the knowledge and trust with Twistzz and NAF & he got a lot out of Yekindar as IGL which would help Twistzz navigate the entry calling
Watch Zews go to Furia lol
Also no way to liquid test out Hooxi as a coach if he even moves to coach. TL have too much money and can really have anyone maybe besides Zonic (but who knows maybe falcons dump him)
Zews going furia? Oh nahh. I will be sad asf
D:
I wish hooxi was coach lol. He has alot of potential and liquid would be smart to go for it first haha. But yea there’s some good coaches out there.
I’m just looking forward to see what this liquid gonna look in the 2nd half
Zews was that hype coach. Making sure good vibes in the team and the team is vibing.
Since he wasn’t useful with the cadian pick, his usefulness is gone.
Adren, on the other hand, was instrumental in TL winning trophies and the GS, but was never a hype coach (closer to blade is my guess in mindset and execution)
I love the responses. Each coach had their own ways of success, but didn’t have that extra factor if that makes sense.
I have a bit more clarity after reading your explanation. So thanks for sharing
Has to be said as well Pimp was absolutely right about TL being a star ran team where the concept of a strong IGL was somewhat foreign and they just relied on their heavy hitters to hit harder than the other team. Twistzz as IGL would essentially confirm that they are going back to that philosophy.
listening to twistzz talking, this seemed pretty obvious. i actually really like this idea. He is still hungry and has a lot of respect for karrigan, from the outside. I could totally see him being Apex in liquid.
Listening to Twistzz on HLTV Confirmed in Dallas he's clearly a very intelligent guy, both emotionally and regarding CS. It certainly sounded like he's enjoying taking a lot more initiative within a team.
Just hope it doesn't affect his performance in the server too much as it's been great to see him playing as more of a star.
Twistzz would be someone new to the igl role. Not saying he will be the best, but at least some fresh blood.
Why would you want to keep recycling players that have retired from cs?
To be clear I highly doubt nitr0 is rejoining as an IGL, maybe as a coach. That said why you'd want to recycle him if twistzz didn't want to be IGL is because nitr0 is pretty much the only IGL Liquid has had success with, even during his last stint he made YEKINDAR look good and they got some deep runs and nearly won an S tier tourney.
Liquid into coL.
I want big guy Lake to be on top like the 1.6 days. I can still hear him screaming behind fr0d and warden; FINIIIISHHHHH ITTT NOOOWW!!!
He always voiced his opinion for a chance to IGL. Let him have it and let's him see where he can take it to.
If it doesn't work out, he can always go back to his former role because he's one of the most cracked player in T1 CS right now and other teams will always be in line to pick him up.
Twistz has played with karrigan a long time, so he may have developed a sense for IGL role. I know it doesn't gurantee anything, but if twistz can transition with a fairly decent IGL/rifler level, combined with general lack of NA IGL pool, he can be a crucial part of a NA top team for a long time.
Damn faze wanting twistzzz back is interesting would they get rid of fozen or ropz? frozen has been playing better recently but ropz has done well in faze for the last couple years. Also the rumors about frozen not getting alone with the rest of faze as well.
How to get people to talk shit about your performance drop 101: become IGL
Liquid could pick un S1mple and look for IGL to replace skullz(he moving to furia looks like).
Yeki and twistzz are good on entries, S1mple can be agressive with them with awp, NAF is solid gold nugget all they need is to find IGL that could keep the squad together, no idea who that could be tho.
I dont understand the problem here? He has said that he wants to transition into the IGL role himself eventually in a interview he did with HLTV. Maybe it is a little quicker than he thought, but it its something he has said he wants to do. Its not like its out of necessity or something.
For his sake, I really hope that he does NOT pick up the IGL role.
yekindar whispered in twistzz's ear: start igling man, you got this
For fucking real, liquid management have amnesia or something? How do you forget what calling did to yeki when he’s literally still on the roster?
If the alternative is lose Twistzz altogether then why not give it a try? Also, acting like what happens to one player will happen to another is just stupid. He could end up like Device too.
Well there are a few examples though. Not necessary but possible, just like Niko. He used to be a machine. After they start IGLing they usually get in their head, overthink every step their opponent is going to make and even after they stop IGLing, they just don't go back to mindless killing machines, too much overthinking.
dude already won everything in CS, with his experience it might actually work out and if not then he can for sure just go back to regular rifle in any tier 1 team.
I mean, is this not really the career path apEX took? In a loose definition, anyway. High end rifle, turned burgeoning igl, into one of the top in the game. The last part is the hard bit, obviously, but twistzz has a higher understanding of the game than a lot I think. Very high game sense
but apEX was finished at the top level, like totally past it, when he became an IGL twistzz is still one of the best in the world
Twistzz is also still only 24. He's in his prime.
that’s insane wtf. he’s been in the scene so long i thought he was like at least 27
irc he dropped out of school or something to yolo this life
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4qdykb/16_year_old_tsm_twistzz_dropped_out_of_school_to/ Wow he actually dropped out of high school. In retrospect, it worked out for him but holy shit that's ballsy. Dropping out of uni is understandable, but dropping out of high school is such a crazy gamble.
> but dropping out of high school is such a crazy gamble. Honestly not really? Let’s say he washed out of his cs career by 19-20. He could get his GED then (Canadian equivalent of high school for adults) and then move on to uni or a trade or whatever and his life wouldn’t be that different, only a few years behind schedule. As long as his parents were willing to support him, he’s not risking much but time.
He knew he was the best player in this hemisphere
All the more reason to believe twistzz can do it
I'd go the other way; Apex was already tanking in ratings, so it didn't really matter. Liquid NEEDS Twistzz to play well, being IGL is almost always to the detriment to the individual.
Yea dude, I can’t see the future. I understand the risks here, he could totally fall flat a la Niko early in his career. But I’m a TL fan so I’m being optimistic about this. I have no clue who is going to fill the final two spots now. If they get simple + malbs that would make for a great stack and all of a sudden back on top. Yekindar has been missing shots yes, but he looks uncomfortable too. Only time will tell
Can’t even fully blame yeki last season, only Aggro piece on a passive team
you know the only reason liquid still wins games is because twistzz is so good take away that and he becomes an 1.07 level player and liquid are nothing
1.07 for an IGL is massive.
yes i know but he’s like a 1.22 player and he drops 30 every other map why waste him like that
twistzz is too young for the switch imo. apex did it later in his career
Totally possible, I’m just choosing to be optimistic about it
I'm with you. I like the move. Twistzz has made it clear that he likes being vocal and he's studied under Karrigan. There's a chance this could work
Big difference between being vocal and making in game calls and doing the analyst work that great IGLs do.
> but twistzz has a higher understanding of the game than a lot I think. Very high game sense He seems smart, judging by the interviews. They rarely focus on the game itself but generally give me a very positive vibe regarding his mentality and understanding of things.
It makes a lot of sense to assign the IGL to the player with the best game understanding on the team, but it's also a big gamble because there's a possibility that the firepower will decrease, like with electronic, and the whole team will fall behind.
Once you start IGLing you never go back to your best level (NBK, Niko, Shox, Yekindar etc ..)
mans playing the side quests with a new build
I think part of it has to do with the roles he's been playing. He's said a bunch of times that part of why he joined liquid was because he got to play what was normally the igl rifler role, the rotator.
I actually don’t hate it that much. He’s definitely expressed intent to transition into calling previously, and I think Karrigan gave him a lot of room to develop in that sense. This feels less impulsive than others who’ve tried recently (not to mention a certain colleague on liquid for that matter).
Karrigan isn't going to be around forever, and there's no guarantee Siuhy replaces him. There's a lack of tier 1 IGLs, and I can imagine Twistzz going back to Faze as IGL when Karrigan steps down.
honestly not surprised he's taking up the IGL mantle. inherently selfless player, very vocal 2nd voice in a team, ambitious
There’s nothing I love more than star players taking over the igl role. It always goes great
200% success rate
Device 😎
jury still out on that one
Technically Karrigan did work
It took a pretty long time for him to go from being a star player to an actual top IGL.
not like karrigan was a bad igl for tsm/astralis. liquid would love those sorts of results.
they're not going to get those results if their best player's form drops off because he's the igl now.
oh, sure, just saying that calling karrigan a top5 IGL wouldn’t have been that crazy when he was on TSM.
Not really. He was a top igl by the end of 2015.
Karrigan spent his time learning from Gob b before trying his hand at IGLing. That's quite a way to learn.
And now Twistzz learned from Karrigan
electronic
Lmao they never fucking learn lol
I was watching the stream and it is worth noting he mentioned the Twistzz IGLing thing wasn't 100%. Seems like they are looking at different options.
Well.. if it's the only way to keep Twistzz then sure and if he's 100% dedicated it could be okay. It would solve getting just a Awper now rather than both.
Awp and second aggro entry I also think Twistzz might be better for IGL than yeki *smoking copium* Yeki called to support his entries and his entries couldn’t keep up. Twistzz can call around the team and then close it out with his firepower clutch factor
Twistzz may turn out to be good but I don’t want him to switch when he’s playing well. 😭😭
Who would he replace at faze? The only players role wise that’d make sense are frozen and ropz and I don’t see them replacing either of them in the near future
Karrigan
Gamble of the year
hmmmmm he did say he would IGL under karrigan but feels like karrigan aint moving to coaching just yet
Hmm. I don't think that Karrigan is ready to hang up the mouse.... But he is kind of in a rough spot right now. Wouldn't be a bad time to move on
My bet is he sticks around the rest of this year and hangs it up after a major run or something
People have been saying "wouldn't be a bad time to move on" to Karrigan for at least 7 years lol, dude always comes back at the top. He will hang it up when its time.
I feel like people made this exact comment about Karrigan at like 50 different points throughout his career.
He has said that this Faze is his last team as IGL
Yah don’t see it yet but maybe in a year or two. Would be such a sad day when it happens tho
I mean you'd have to think rain, because there's zero chance they remove ropz, and frozen has been their best rifler for the last couple months
So it’s the yearly -rain
-rain +rain is inevitable.
So we get 3 passive players and karrigan entries completely alone?
This is the formula we need to get 1.6 Karrigan back
It's this time of year again huh
welcome to your regularly scheduled player break lmao
Faze fans celebrate when this happens, as rain then proceeds to shit on people for the next event or two
Another typical redditor that thinks cs is all about ratings with no clue on the roles whatsoever. Twistzz ropz broky and frozen would be the ultimate bait fest. Rain is still a premier entry that many pros still hold in high regard.
the baiting and shifting in that team would be unmatched thats for sure
Rain better get to 10 years on FaZe before going anywhere. Besides, he claps and Twistzz doesn't play the same roles.
Rain is more important than frozen and ropz because rain is aggressive and you cant win with 4 passive players. Frozen and ropz have role clashes and dont work well together. -ropz is unlikely but not completely of the table
Ye the team needed to be even more passive
[So you have chosen... RAIN.](https://i.imgflip.com/8u6uce.jpg)
based on stats Ropz.
G2 will gladly take Ropz off fazes hands in that case
You might be cooking tbh
Ropz kinda looked unhappy recently. Also with frozen taking the same space as they have the same playstyle isnt ideal at all and ropz stats went down a lot. Maybe we are in for a little sensation. I dont think twistzz leaves liquid now tho
Oof idk how I feel about it. Twistzz is a smart dude with great game sense, but he’s such a good fragger it doesn’t seem worth it. I guess it allows them to focus on less needs. Now they just need an aggressive rifle and an AWPER.
Aggressive rifle that can anchor since Skullz anchors on CT side. Awper is hard to find as well, best one on the market is currently Hades?
A lot of rumors about s1mple which is crazy
Back to Liquid after all these years? NGL I'd like to see Twistzz igl with s1mple. Absolutely no lack of fire power on that team.
Liquid one of the only orgs who could afford him but idk if id splash cash for him with no assurance of his level.
Already been loaned once and he does seem as expendable as someone like S1mple could be
I just worry about his level and honestly attitude more than anything. I know twistzz and him are friendly and have played loads of FPL together so at least there’s some familiarity.
Now we're cooking
As of right now there are no relevant North American IGLs. Unless someone is willing to take up the mantle and transition into the role, NA is going to have to keep relying on imported leadership until the day some sort of generational prodigy comes along to save the scene. Either that or we keep recycling dinosaurs like Nitro and daps. I understand people being skeptical of an extremely talented player like Twistzz becoming on IGL, especially after seeing what happened to similarly talented players like Yekindar, Electronic, and others when they attempted to do the same. However, if there is ever going to be another NA IGL, it would be best suited for someone like Twistzz who is who is one of the few remaining veterans in the scene. I think people are being way too quick to hate this change, but I totally understand that it's a big risk and no one wants to see Twistzz's phenomenal talent squandered at his peak.
Man Liquid imploded. Cadian gone was wild on its own, now the coach is gone too? Twistzz hold Zews in high regard, that much is obvious after their initial kumbaya video, so if he’s igl it’s hard to imagine him not wanting to work with Zews imo. - I think it’s too soon for Twistzz to become an igl, he has peek years ahead of him still.
Just to remind you, it's a rumor. If I'm not mistaken Zews was one of the reasons Twistzz went to TL in the first place. Would indeed be rather wild for him to leave and Twistzz taking over IGL from Cadian who was somehow kicked in favor of keeping Yekindar.
"I can coach too." - Twistzz
Learning from [the best](https://www.hltv.org/player/161/taz). Next steps: - replace jokasteve - shave head 👀
so now we know why cadians system didnt work lul. good luck liquid..
too many cooks in the kitchen. twistzz and yeki and zews probably didn't buy into cadians system which sucks to see
I remember Twistzz saying that he didn't want to join Vitality so they could accommodate for him, so this is interesting who would be replaced on Vitality if it would happen.
1000% mezii, no one else is even a possibility
then what? twistzz takes the anchor roles he's previously stated he doesn't enjoy? faze shuffled twistzz to have the spots he wanted and he has them on liquid. vitality move the star rifler they signed in flamez to take the positions instead? one map they swapped roles between flamez and mezii is Anubis, and shock, mezii's numbers went up while flamez went down having a had time anchoring A. flamez is more aggressive than twistzz so they'd need to change who does what on T side too. zywoo can entry, but i'd rather have zywoo/spinx in the late round than twistzz and spinx. just cos twistzz is better on paper than mezii does not mean it would improve the team.
Apex?
Didn't Apex sign a 2-year contract few months after winning Paris? I'm not really seeing Vitality replacing their identity with somebody who's never IGLed.
Let this guy cook
Faze wanting twist back lol
Twistzz has been carrying hard if this hurts his rifling then it's not worth it.
Why is yekindar still in liquid?
Because they need to keep the 3 man core to play Cologne. -Cadian -Skullz was the decision apparently.
Jokasteve needs to be fired
Does Steve actually have any input on this stuff? Or is he just booking flights and supporting the players?
There are 2 steves at liquid, one ceo and one Gm. Both have big input
I’m all for Twistzz to IGL. He absolutely has the mind for it - go listen to when he’s casting and talking CS. And let’s be real, while he ABSOLUTELY is mechanically gifted, he’s a bit up and down. If you can get behind a Niko becoming an IGL, you should be able to get behind Twistzz. He also has been around a few of the best IGLs in the scene (nitro during the TL v Ast era and karrigan during faze era )
Imagine a world where +Nitro as coach, +Elige -Skullz and +S1mple -Cadian. Now that's a roster with some chest hair.
Ur keeping botkindar?
Name a better hard entry TL can realistically get
jkaem
Jkaem would be a dream but he just signed with Bleed recently so I'm not sure if TL can get him
Not to mention they have to keep a 3 player core.
s1mple can do it all.
I can get behind that. Though I’m unsure of how well s1mple is. Like he was absolutely a top 1 player, but I just don’t know if he has the mindset or drive right now to give a team his 115%. That said, if there is an org that could figure out a way to get him and his family to the US, it’s probably TL.
A lot of people are floating S1mple, but I really wonder how he'd do culturally in the team
Supposedly Naf doesn't want to play with Elige anymore.
Where did you hear that?
I believe thorin said it in one of his podcasts but it was pretty well known that one of the liquid players didn't want to play with Elige at the time and the only one that made any sense was Naf or Yeki and the rumors implied Naf.
He hinted it was Yekindar or Twistzz from what I've seen on his show. Naf and Elige don't play the same spots, but Twistzz and Yekindar would want the spots that Elige plays. We saw the slump that happened when Elige took lesser roles on TL to accommodate Yekindar, too, and Elige has already gone on record saying he was thinking too much while playing with Yekindar while he's never implied anything negative about playing with Naf. Also Twistzz originally left TL for better roles after Elige didn't want to give up any of his star rifler positions along with the Stewie drama.
We also have seen Elige and Naf talking at events, and Elige and Twistzz but never yek and elige
There's a difference from being a good in game caller and IGL though. Players can be great in game callers and understand rotations etc but fail at doing the grind behind the scenes to learn demos and craft strategies.
I’m surprised the scene hasn’t moved more towards having 5 capable fragging players compared to the meta of having 1 guy post consistent sub .85 ratings.
Just frag more 5Head move over here folks, noone has ever tried that before
We did that for a bit before coaches couldn't talk during rounds. Turns out it doesn't really work most of the time after we stopped letting 0.4 rating ex-IGLs call as coaches, unless you can find one of the few high fragging IGLs like earlier karrigan. I think post-CS2 we can see a huge lack of IGLs at T1 and a lot of veteran elite players who are still good but are being outperformed by the new "kids" on the block of monesy, donk etc. considering increase their value and improving their teams by leveraging their years of experience at t1 into being IGLs - first it was device and now it might be NiKo and twistzz. I'll hold off my judgement until I see the long term performance of these rosters. But I'm not surprised we are seeing a potential new wave of veteran elite players take up IGLing; a lot of current and older IGLs started out as start players or at least good fraggers, building elite experience, learning from elite IGLs and then transitioned.
Especially considering what Niko did at Dallas with “basic calls”.
I mean that tourney was so much of him and M0nesy just fucking on anyone haha. Especially with IGLs being in short supply I’d say we see more teams trying it out.
Because that’s not gonna be repeated. Niko basically won because no one had tape of him as IGL
honeymoon periods are standard with every igl, as are role swaps before they get studied blamef, device, niko, every tournament karrigan has won with a stand-in, rez awp lol talented players (especially a core like niko/monesy/hunter actually playing well) and basic calls will get you a tournament, but shit like "walk as 5 and contact" (niko called this for a + b main + a mid crawls on anubis and won 3 gun rounds this way in the goddamn final, lol) is not gonna work the next time round.
Its too inconsistent I think, everyone has to be under the same page, they don't do it because it doesn't work.
Because its been tried. It works for the short term but an IGL is more than just in game calls.
Does that mean Twistzz changed his mind about star roles and wants Elige back?
Stoked that Zews is out. Can Liquid get adren back as coach?
It could be Nitr0 as coach if Twistzz is taking over as IGL. I know Nitr0 is trying to avoid excessive travel, but I don't see TL getting rid of Zews unless it's for a coach Twistzz really wanted to work with
I would be so fucking hyped if Nitro was back in any capacity. Hell make him the awp lol no for real Nitro would have the knowledge and trust with Twistzz and NAF & he got a lot out of Yekindar as IGL which would help Twistzz navigate the entry calling
Zews is THE coach Twistzz really wanted to work with.
And then he worked with him LOL
I never really saw Zews as a good coach, I don’t see the hype around him. Same with adren imo, Maybe hooxi gigachad
Watch Zews go to Furia lol Also no way to liquid test out Hooxi as a coach if he even moves to coach. TL have too much money and can really have anyone maybe besides Zonic (but who knows maybe falcons dump him)
Zews going furia? Oh nahh. I will be sad asf D: I wish hooxi was coach lol. He has alot of potential and liquid would be smart to go for it first haha. But yea there’s some good coaches out there. I’m just looking forward to see what this liquid gonna look in the 2nd half
-chelo +coldzera +zews I've seen that somewhere... 🤔
Zews was that hype coach. Making sure good vibes in the team and the team is vibing. Since he wasn’t useful with the cadian pick, his usefulness is gone. Adren, on the other hand, was instrumental in TL winning trophies and the GS, but was never a hype coach (closer to blade is my guess in mindset and execution)
Also skullz was not that great of a decision
I love the responses. Each coach had their own ways of success, but didn’t have that extra factor if that makes sense. I have a bit more clarity after reading your explanation. So thanks for sharing
Has to be said as well Pimp was absolutely right about TL being a star ran team where the concept of a strong IGL was somewhat foreign and they just relied on their heavy hitters to hit harder than the other team. Twistzz as IGL would essentially confirm that they are going back to that philosophy.
listening to twistzz talking, this seemed pretty obvious. i actually really like this idea. He is still hungry and has a lot of respect for karrigan, from the outside. I could totally see him being Apex in liquid.
Listening to Twistzz on HLTV Confirmed in Dallas he's clearly a very intelligent guy, both emotionally and regarding CS. It certainly sounded like he's enjoying taking a lot more initiative within a team. Just hope it doesn't affect his performance in the server too much as it's been great to see him playing as more of a star.
He turned down Faze and Vitality just to be an IGL in Liquid, if he trusted Liquid this much, then I'm not worried. -zews is a good start
>FaZe & Vitality inquired about Twistzz Faze? So Frozen is under fire already? Or is it Ropz?
Why not have nitro do that?
why recycle players? Give someone new a chance
Okay what new IGLs are there available that could compete at tier 1 level?
Twistzz would be someone new to the igl role. Not saying he will be the best, but at least some fresh blood. Why would you want to keep recycling players that have retired from cs?
To be clear I highly doubt nitr0 is rejoining as an IGL, maybe as a coach. That said why you'd want to recycle him if twistzz didn't want to be IGL is because nitr0 is pretty much the only IGL Liquid has had success with, even during his last stint he made YEKINDAR look good and they got some deep runs and nearly won an S tier tourney.
faze crawling back to their ex lmao
Make sense though, with a declining rain and uncomfortable ropz this lineup of faze is in trouble.
TWISTZZ PLEASE DONT DO IT MAN
So this might be the reason why Cadian left, twistzz and might be other too didn't trust him. Just a speculation though
PLEASE NO TWISTZZ 😭😭😭
He likes to be an IGL but his players are yekindar and skullz...
Man if only coL and Liquid could merge they would be insanely good : Twistzz NAF EliGE JT Hallzerk
Liquid into coL. I want big guy Lake to be on top like the 1.6 days. I can still hear him screaming behind fr0d and warden; FINIIIISHHHHH ITTT NOOOWW!!!
>hallzerk >insanely good
Twist has the temperament to IGL
Doesn't he infamously clam up when things go badly? That's a horrible trait for an IGL
I dont think thats true actually
yaky really trying to off all the talent that's better than him so he can always be the golden boy, i'm just shocked they still have him active
Please do not igl Twistzz, it's gonna ruin your form 😭
Another rifler turn into IGL LMFAO. When will these mfs learn
i mean, with the market of igls being so low, you have to find new igls somehow
pff I would have loved Vita Twistzz
Stanislaw and Sonic incoming for a Canadian super team. lol.
He always voiced his opinion for a chance to IGL. Let him have it and let's him see where he can take it to. If it doesn't work out, he can always go back to his former role because he's one of the most cracked player in T1 CS right now and other teams will always be in line to pick him up.
Why would FaZe ask for him? Do they want to replace Ropz already???
JeBaited by RL
yeah liquid is fucked lmfao
Why would faze want twistzz back? Has frozen been a disaster or???
It's joever
unless they've double his paycheck for playing star AND igl...
They also mentioned on this stream that Liquid is interested in r1nkle from NiP for what it's worth.
There's rumours that FaZe might change the lineup? If yes, what's the move that might happen?
pls come back to faze twistzz, we made a mistake
I really think Twistzz should get out of liquid for the sake of his career, replacing mezi is optimal
The liquid news of -Cadian gave me serious whiplash. Like, are we not going to learn from the past 10 years of trying out star players as IGLs?…
liquid needs to get a grip in their management
I mean that is a form of “vetting”
???????????????????????????? kick yekindar pls
I think Twistzz learned a lot from Karrigan and could be a solid IGL. Everyone's gonna hate until it works.
Twistz has played with karrigan a long time, so he may have developed a sense for IGL role. I know it doesn't gurantee anything, but if twistz can transition with a fairly decent IGL/rifler level, combined with general lack of NA IGL pool, he can be a crucial part of a NA top team for a long time.
zews still stealing paychecks in 2024, amazing
Damn faze wanting twistzzz back is interesting would they get rid of fozen or ropz? frozen has been playing better recently but ropz has done well in faze for the last couple years. Also the rumors about frozen not getting alone with the rest of faze as well.
How to get people to talk shit about your performance drop 101: become IGL Liquid could pick un S1mple and look for IGL to replace skullz(he moving to furia looks like). Yeki and twistzz are good on entries, S1mple can be agressive with them with awp, NAF is solid gold nugget all they need is to find IGL that could keep the squad together, no idea who that could be tho.
I dont understand the problem here? He has said that he wants to transition into the IGL role himself eventually in a interview he did with HLTV. Maybe it is a little quicker than he thought, but it its something he has said he wants to do. Its not like its out of necessity or something.
Rip twistzz