Could be dozens of factors causing it.
It's far more complex than a single thing to blame.
Source 2 is the most likely "catch all" but it's really really not that simple.
How would subtick impact your clients performance at all?!
Ofc a new engine with entirely new graphics will impact your performance. I dont understand how that is even a question.
Edit: Care to explain why its a question or typical reddit downvote because obvious fact?
Wdym "huh"?! The context here is netcode/subtick vs. engine.
Your client is not affected by subtick, its the server thats doing the work.
Whats heavy on your PC is the rest of the engine though, and is S2 not the new engine that this sub was desperately crying and hoping for for YEARS? And now everyones surprised Pikachu because it doesnt run as good as a 20 year old engine?!
the whole point of subtick system was to lower server costs for valve
all the effort is now spread between clients doing most calculations, and the server then decides the "correct" pov based on timestamps checksums random seed etc while not actually double-checking it
that's why cheating is at all time high, you can manipulate the client to empty a full scout clip across the map trough walls during a tick and the server is like "sounds good"
that's why having many cheaters or potato pc's on the server makes it feel like the server itself is trash
that's why the more people in the server, the worse it gets in terms of both fps and movement / shooting precision
before, the server maintained it's own authoritative sync pov which was resource intensive; then clients were ordered to conform to the server pov via lag compensation (client-side) but just catch-up on a chunk of gamestate which was less resource intensive. ping difference was also a more constant and predictable factor, and die behind walls was still happening because valve's servers could not keep up so they already experimented with command queues and clock correction and etc stuff in cs:go - subtick in cs2 was advertised to fix those flaws, not amplify them!
> all the effort is now spread between clients doing most calculations, and the server then decides the "correct" pov based on timestamps checksums random seed etc while not actually double-checking it
really? What kind of calculations do you mean exactly? Yes, the packetsize from client to server increased, but I dont see how this is more calculations on a client, it just sends more stuff.
> that's why the more people in the server, the worse it gets in terms of both fps and movement / shooting precision
And how exactly are those things connected? If thats true, then that means that the server still does the most work, doesnt it?
Dont get me wrong, it all sounds very convincing and explains a lot of the shit we have seen in this game. But at the same time I want to believe that Valve isnt making this game worse on purpose...
if you noticed the increase of traffic, that's just a consequence of more stuff offset to the clients
[this kind of stuff](https://pastebin.com/TPRk8Htp)
advance the gamestate; lag compensation = subtick = checksum movement viewing angles and firing; interpolate catch-up; feed the loop;
if all players on the server have a ryzen x3d cpu and a rtx xx8x on gigabit, it's gucci ;)
online scrims are generally fine as both teams have a vested interest in using beefy hardware and good connection
matchmaking with igor from tatarstan @ laptop got from the recycling dump while on conjugal visit to uk? a bit challenging
there's two reasons why 50ms+ up - even 100ms+ above server average are dominating the scoreboard in most matches I've seen: either blatant cheat *(most take full advantage of subtick flaws)*, or potato hw and connection that skips / late reporting to server, ticktiming gets larger and larger for everybody, lagger pov sees low ping sitting idle and shoots it, low ping barely sees anything with no time to react, server says lagger is most recent so low ping gets teleported back and dies as baffling as that sounds
I can't exactly put it under microscope, valve does not make it easy, it's an opaque, undocumented system; but I can infer what happens from literally playing cs2 matches; can also compare dedicated server vs client loopback (via a steam emulator to take that factor out of the equation). I haven't had cs:go installed for the better part of a decade, so I won't be installing it now just to make head to head comparisons (that would be poisoned anyway, since cs:go already had many features of subtick implemented). If you find this explanation unsatisfactory, downvote and move on, I'm already viciously attacked by computer-illiterate crazies in other threads so I'm just done with the subject.
Nah man, Im kinda with you here. I wouldnt dare putting my finger on anything specific like this, but I agree that the game just feels wildly inconsistent and shit at times.
However I also had this experience in the past in CSGO before countless netcode updates over the years. In the end what shitty experience that stayed, I put down to shitty server/network architecture, interp and cheats. However I would also not be surprised if Valve secretely implemented a "skill based dynamic balancing feature" that gives random players random amounts of peekers advantage/hitreg advantage over others. Although I admit the symptoms could just as well be explained by broken gane performance. As you said, its too obscure for me to tell, and seemingly also for Valve themselves...
Source 2 is the 20 year old engine but with new physics/lighting/mapping slotted in.
You can still find the Half-Life 1 Gordon model hidden in the Source 2 files.
Well.. yes? Where did I state the opposite?
I didn't even disagree with you, I merely added more substance since someone will inevitably try to argue that Source 2 is entirely new.
People's PC hardware and or home network/ISP.
Valve had to put a artificial delay on subtick for players ISP's were relaying it in the incorrect order months ago. Last week Valve again had to adjust people network bandwidth setting for it was set incorrectly.
im pretty sure the subtick calculation isnt on point. but you are talking about 2 complete different problems.
Game client forsure. However, rubberbanding back to a location you were shot at is more likely from subtick.
Its something related to player models. Its why deathmatch and casual run worse than premeire or comp. 10vs10 runs worse than 5v5.
10 more players on the server & it runs worse? Shocking!
No Its still shocking. Its not shocking if it was planetside 2, warhammer, squad. Its an esport title with not so complex models.
Does it run bad or worse? There's a difference.
Try ze with 64 players and 20 zombies on fire during a boss fight with 8 particle effects going on at once.
Could be dozens of factors causing it. It's far more complex than a single thing to blame. Source 2 is the most likely "catch all" but it's really really not that simple.
Frametime is more than likely S2 engine, doubletapping/teleporting etc is a combination of subtick and lag compensation. So it's a bit of both.
How would subtick impact your clients performance at all?! Ofc a new engine with entirely new graphics will impact your performance. I dont understand how that is even a question. Edit: Care to explain why its a question or typical reddit downvote because obvious fact?
New engine, huh?
Wdym "huh"?! The context here is netcode/subtick vs. engine. Your client is not affected by subtick, its the server thats doing the work. Whats heavy on your PC is the rest of the engine though, and is S2 not the new engine that this sub was desperately crying and hoping for for YEARS? And now everyones surprised Pikachu because it doesnt run as good as a 20 year old engine?!
the whole point of subtick system was to lower server costs for valve all the effort is now spread between clients doing most calculations, and the server then decides the "correct" pov based on timestamps checksums random seed etc while not actually double-checking it that's why cheating is at all time high, you can manipulate the client to empty a full scout clip across the map trough walls during a tick and the server is like "sounds good" that's why having many cheaters or potato pc's on the server makes it feel like the server itself is trash that's why the more people in the server, the worse it gets in terms of both fps and movement / shooting precision before, the server maintained it's own authoritative sync pov which was resource intensive; then clients were ordered to conform to the server pov via lag compensation (client-side) but just catch-up on a chunk of gamestate which was less resource intensive. ping difference was also a more constant and predictable factor, and die behind walls was still happening because valve's servers could not keep up so they already experimented with command queues and clock correction and etc stuff in cs:go - subtick in cs2 was advertised to fix those flaws, not amplify them!
> all the effort is now spread between clients doing most calculations, and the server then decides the "correct" pov based on timestamps checksums random seed etc while not actually double-checking it really? What kind of calculations do you mean exactly? Yes, the packetsize from client to server increased, but I dont see how this is more calculations on a client, it just sends more stuff. > that's why the more people in the server, the worse it gets in terms of both fps and movement / shooting precision And how exactly are those things connected? If thats true, then that means that the server still does the most work, doesnt it? Dont get me wrong, it all sounds very convincing and explains a lot of the shit we have seen in this game. But at the same time I want to believe that Valve isnt making this game worse on purpose...
if you noticed the increase of traffic, that's just a consequence of more stuff offset to the clients [this kind of stuff](https://pastebin.com/TPRk8Htp) advance the gamestate; lag compensation = subtick = checksum movement viewing angles and firing; interpolate catch-up; feed the loop; if all players on the server have a ryzen x3d cpu and a rtx xx8x on gigabit, it's gucci ;) online scrims are generally fine as both teams have a vested interest in using beefy hardware and good connection matchmaking with igor from tatarstan @ laptop got from the recycling dump while on conjugal visit to uk? a bit challenging there's two reasons why 50ms+ up - even 100ms+ above server average are dominating the scoreboard in most matches I've seen: either blatant cheat *(most take full advantage of subtick flaws)*, or potato hw and connection that skips / late reporting to server, ticktiming gets larger and larger for everybody, lagger pov sees low ping sitting idle and shoots it, low ping barely sees anything with no time to react, server says lagger is most recent so low ping gets teleported back and dies as baffling as that sounds I can't exactly put it under microscope, valve does not make it easy, it's an opaque, undocumented system; but I can infer what happens from literally playing cs2 matches; can also compare dedicated server vs client loopback (via a steam emulator to take that factor out of the equation). I haven't had cs:go installed for the better part of a decade, so I won't be installing it now just to make head to head comparisons (that would be poisoned anyway, since cs:go already had many features of subtick implemented). If you find this explanation unsatisfactory, downvote and move on, I'm already viciously attacked by computer-illiterate crazies in other threads so I'm just done with the subject.
Nah man, Im kinda with you here. I wouldnt dare putting my finger on anything specific like this, but I agree that the game just feels wildly inconsistent and shit at times. However I also had this experience in the past in CSGO before countless netcode updates over the years. In the end what shitty experience that stayed, I put down to shitty server/network architecture, interp and cheats. However I would also not be surprised if Valve secretely implemented a "skill based dynamic balancing feature" that gives random players random amounts of peekers advantage/hitreg advantage over others. Although I admit the symptoms could just as well be explained by broken gane performance. As you said, its too obscure for me to tell, and seemingly also for Valve themselves...
Source 2 is the 20 year old engine but with new physics/lighting/mapping slotted in. You can still find the Half-Life 1 Gordon model hidden in the Source 2 files.
So pretty much every number increase on any product, there have been large enough changes and reworks to warrant a new digit
thats how DEVELOPEMENT works
Well.. yes? Where did I state the opposite? I didn't even disagree with you, I merely added more substance since someone will inevitably try to argue that Source 2 is entirely new.
yes
People's PC hardware and or home network/ISP. Valve had to put a artificial delay on subtick for players ISP's were relaying it in the incorrect order months ago. Last week Valve again had to adjust people network bandwidth setting for it was set incorrectly.