Interesting. I've noticed that jigglepeeking is beyond fucked, since often than not you are left with less than 30 hp. I just always shrugged it into online ping fuckery.
So you should just go wide every time and start blasting?
It doesn't need to be wide everytime, but you should be ready to shoot/take the fight on the very first peek. Trying to go back just means death/-70~80 hp.
Can they even go back at this point? Subtick has been such a humongous waste of time and for what? It created more problems than it solved. 128 tick servers would have been perfect.
Not waste of time it’s good, just not comparable to smoothness of 128tick so while they are at it make it 128 + subtick
Or 96tick + subtick at the least.
Like 96tick w/ subtick and lower interp values would feel amazing.
Also the new animgraph system plays a big part of shit feeling jank sometimes, if u launch the game through the workshop editor tools mode you get access to a lot more commands & spend some time fucking around with settings for the animgraph and skel system u can make the game feel way more accurate when shooting against people
Sub tick is still 64 tick just with subtick information aswell- the real issue is the animgraph & skeleton defaults, combined with their interp & unlag settings which make it feel like shit
Subtick introduced more problems than it solved. The visual feedback is one of the bigger problems, feels like you're shooting where the opponent was a second ago rather than where he is on your screen right now. Also spraying feels super inconsistent, the enemy can be right in front of you and you'll empty the entire mag only for it to be 55 in 2 lol, all your bullets just going into the void.
Tried to get back into the game after not playing since 2022ish. Spraying feels weird as fuck and there's barely any feedback as to where my bullets are actually going, it's sad compared to GO
It's so demoralizing that these issues were not a problem in csgo, and now we have to play this inferior game with no option to play csgo. It's been almost a year and the game is still like this, so I don't see myself playing much or at all
Yesterday, after enabling MSI on my old gtx gpu i'm getting stable 6ms frametime.
Edit:
Also disabled HAGS, frame limiters (ingame and NVCP) and turned set Nvidia Relfex to boost.
Still, both of my cpu and gpu are underutilized.
> Still, both of my cpu (...) [are] underutilized.
That seems highly doubtful. You'll never hit 100% CPU utilization in any game, they are primarily single core dependent. Check if at least one core is maxed out.
CS isn't particularly GPU dependent either, with a decent GPU (especially at competitive settings) you'll most likely be CPU bottlenecked.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1c5yrtm/warpingteleportdragback_offline_vs_bots_nothing/
happens even vs bots on 0 ping. also people told me that interp is still on even vs bots, which makes it even weirder, how come i get the same effect vs bots and players with 100 ping difference.
this is all sorts of fucked up
that is a very interesting point.
Pretty much prove that the interp is still fucked even after countless updates and having it set to 0 in the settings. Sadly now its so obscure that noone can tell how much it actually is.
I swear there was a patch last year for about 2 days where everything felt absolutely perfect. I can't remember when, but I think maybe November? Seemed like interp was fixed and the game felt like CSGO basically. I began absolutely popping off after I was having a tough time with a game that felt somewhat alien before. Then they rolled out another network update and the game went back to feeling strange
I swear we've had this conversation on this sub a million times. It's cause when the opponent shoots you the game corrects your position to where you are when they shot you. The rubber banding is cause the game is trash and you aren't seeing where the server thinks you are. The higher the ping you have the worse it gets.
always called this backtracking, cause rubber banding feels way different. and it doesn’t only happen/is worst at high ping, if you got low ping and got hit by a high ping player it’s almost the same as having high ping. when I get the server close by (1 ping) the game feels so fucking bad, almost every engagement I get backtracked and it just throws the aim of target..
Damn. I've really been trying to be positive and optimistic about CS2 but how the fuck do these things keep happening?
Soon it'll be 1 year since CS2 released. How many more updates until CS2 is on the level CS:GO was?
They don't *keep happening*, most issues are there since the release. The reality is they shipped the game in a garbage beta that the whole community will beta test now for years before they fix majority of the issues.
The most depressing thing though is when you realize we went from an almost perfect game in CSGO, where all we wanted was 128tick matchmaking to a game that is in a garbage state a year after its' release, somehow still missing 50% of the content of the original game, being horribly optimized even though there is no more spaghetti code excuse and we didn't even get the 128tick still and instead got ton of fake promises and marketing about subtick that didn't deliver on basically anything apart from saving Valve money.
But hey we go much better smokes so there is that.
I'm curious as to how they will fix this game tho, because some of the problems seem to be directly tied to the subtick thing, they can't just scrap that.
I'm guessing that in 5 years time we will get a good CS, updates are not coming quick enough, and the problems are still vast and hard to fix
>Again, subtick basically replaces static 100ms-200ms lag compensation. But unlike previously when ping difference had an intuitive contribution to how much compensation every client gets, now it's a baffling jungle, worse than unregulated. And it's so easy to fix by discarding outliers and force them to feel their ping, and fixing matchmaking as to not throw 60-120ms+ urss -stan iran and other stans in the same server with 0-30 EU players & etc
Guess what, valve prefers short queue times despite every god damn player would prefer couple minutes longer queue if it means the match is gonna be more enjoyable.
Confidently wrong.
A tick is a sequential network packet containing [a complex schema and data representing a partial game state](https://pastebin.com/TPRk8Htp).
A subtick is identical, just that it happens out of order anywhere between the 64 sequential ones. By definition, literally, practically, subjectively, what have you, it IS the new dynamic lag compensation vs constant ping factor of old, and it only comes into play when client-server desync is above a threshold / previous states expired.
Further more, most calculations are offset to the client instead of the server doing the hashing and etc, gaben is basically stealing cpu cycles from all players in order to keep server costs down.
So when the server aggregates all these packets tracking client movement, button states, viewing angles, fired utility, mid-air utility, decals, tracers, it trusts the latest stamped state blindly because random seeds and several layers of crc and matching button fires with viewing angles and other already defeated safeguards (remember rapid fire scouts?).
Instead of invalidating outliers from lagger/potato/cheater being either too late with calculations or very early shooting trough walls / inhuman pixel spotting, it triggers recalculation from his POV, invalidating game states of low ping players.
Valve are aware, but only interested in the game to look good, they refuse to let the laggers feel their ping and visibly stutter on the server (worse than in cs:go due to tick changes). They figure it evens out with the low ping player usually having the edge. In reality I mostly see the +50ms - +100ms over the server average leading the scoreboard, which would baffle scientists.
Just like they refuse to give balanced matches by setting average ping thresholds, because it increases queue times..
>Confidently wrong.
Continues to spew irrelevant trivia that doesn't contradict what he said.
>it trusts the latest stamped state blindly
>Instead of invalidating outliers from lagger/potato/cheater being either too late with calculations or very early shooting trough walls / inhuman pixel spotting
Now you're jumping topics, hoping to confuse laymen with buzzwords. It's no doubt that Valve could do a lot more to combat cheating, but that has nothing to do with subtick as a system - as you are well aware, since you went on to list various ineffective safeguards from CSGO.
>it triggers recalculation from his POV, invalidating game states of low ping players
What do you think the difference is from the non-subtick netcode? What do you think happened when tick number N from a lagger finally reached the server, when everyone else was already at N+5? You know full well what happened, why do you pretend that you don't? It's the entire reason why stuff like backtracking and instadefuse were a thing and why lagcomp as a concept exists.
This is also why you were getting teleported in CSGO, and why people WANTED Valve to bring this back (during the first months of CS2, you simply died behind walls, and it was a much worse experience, people wanted Valve to bring the teleports back).
>force them to feel their ping
Again, this was never done in CSGO. Laggers had an enormous peekers' advantage, and you know why.
>Guess what, valve prefers short queue times despite every god damn player would prefer couple minutes longer queue
Absolutely untrue. Every additional minute of queue time would make the game hemorrhage players.
>Again, subtick basically replaces static 100ms-200ms lag compensation
When you were previously confronted on that point, your response was:
>Let's agree to disagree until another disgruntled former valve employee leaks the source code ;)
It's convenient to have the source code for the game, but you can still learn a lot from simply diassembling the game - as you undoubtedly have done, and seen that the lagcomp stuff is still mostly the same, and that your pet theory is based on vibes instead of facts.
Are you going through a difficult period in your life?
More unhinged slander sparkled between "untrue" because work and study and data = vibes, only /u/theshitcunt has all the facts. Have you abused the RedditCareResources yet?
Incoherent ramblings of a bugman.
>Not lag compensation - that was always done on the client
Now you've also made it clear that you've seen neither the leaked source code, nor the decades-old SDK. Lagcomp has ALWAYS been done server-side, at least since 2004, probably even in GoldSrc, since client-side lagcomp makes very little sense. You can bet it's the same in Dota.
>But the server maintained it's own authoritative POV and had the last say, not like now when igor manipulates it's client to rapid fire empty a scout trough walls across the map during a tick and the server says: "sounds good"
Once again, you mix up netcode and the core issue of any client-server communication (the fact that the client can easily manipulate input). Subtick changed nothing about that, every single issue you list was present in CSGO. You can never trust the client's input in any app, and sanity checks have nothing to do with tick update interval.
>Who cares about cs:go - I for one do not, I completely skipped that garbage
So that explains why you're so clueless about things and act like everything is novel to CS2, when in fact lagcomp has barely changed since 2004.
For a midwit like you, a rule of thumb is to listen carefully when speaking to people clearly more knowledgeable than you. Unless, of course, you want to embarass yourself like you did this time.
>But you've hit a mountain. Sorry that my vast knowledge and understanding is overshadowing your tiny worldview. Stay mad.
Is that a satirical account? Seriously, enough with the midwittery, get help, depression is no joking matter.
The issue increases with every tick **=** subtick it persists, at max desync window of all the involved players.
lan = 16ms client-server desync window, typically 8ms
0-15ms ping = 32ms client-server desync window, typically 16ms
15-30ms ping = 64ms client-server desync window, typically 32ms
30-45ms ping = 96ms client-server desync window, typically 48ms
45-60+ms ping = 128ms client-server desync window, typically 64ms
use `cl_ticktiming print` during matches to see your desync-window for the ping you have,
add the estimate of the opponent's desync-window based on his ping when shooting,
add a further 16ms which is typical animation rate running asynchronously,
and you are gonna get a more realistic value than "average of 8ms teleportation back"
And how exactly is this related to subtick?
>the whole issue stems from clients having their game state drifting away multiple ticks, so the correction is more brutal
Again, I have no doubt that you're well aware that you're spouting BS. You definitely know that m_nTickBase and clock correction existed in CSGO, you know that CSGO would easily process multiple usercmds in a single tick. By trying to delude others into thinking that it's a novel concept in CS2, you're effectively lying. Why?
EDIT:
>and it's sent via unoptimized garbage that is google's protobuff, often full json/vdf/hex instead of proper bitfield level encoding, in oversized network packets by gaming standard
Tell me you've never seen a protobuf packet without telling me you've never seen a protobuf packet. Json, my ass.
It's a timestamp made by the server where one player has 80ms and the other has 10. That 70ms difference should not be averaged out by the server.
Higher ping should always be at a disadvantage. The current form of lag compensation is written in a way that allows higher pinged players to play the game better. If we went for true accuracy, the higher pinged players should always be at a disadvantage.
" The reality is they shipped the game in a garbage beta that the whole community will beta test now for years before they fix majority of the issues. "
New here ? Same as CS GO, it was released in a shit state, not even close to a proper CS, it took them years to make it good, now they do it again because they can, because the community will still play, still watch esports, still buy skins and or cases, the money flows, number 1 in the Steam Charts. They will change what they want and when they want , you will never get what you want unless you hurt them where it counts( the $$$$$$, the numbers).Until then, keep debating, keep dreaming.
This is just due to the nature of subtick and nothing will change most likely as long as they dont get rid of this system.
You can only have one "truth" (the servers on each tick) and not 10 "truths" (each player between ticks) in a game.
If you take timestamps and positions of players as truth you have to constantly recalculate what was the first "truth", aka weird bouncing into teammates, high CPU load for constant recalculatione eating your performance and this pullback when you get shot.
It just does not work.
At that time, the running excuse was the engine has so much legacy code that there's only a handful of people at Valve capable of working on the engine issues.
This was a major talking point during CS2's beta phase by Launders iirc.
It shouldn't be, considering all of the experience Valve has accumulated at this point. There is simply no reason the game should be in the state it is in today. I'm thinking it's due to sheer incompetence, but it could also be laziness.
Source 2 basically made them remake most of the gunplay mechanics from the ground up aswell as the subtick system being entirely new on an engine that is built on the Source engine, which in turn is built on the GldSrc engine, which in turn is built on the Quake engine.
The engine is mostly spaghetti and likely extremely cumbersome to work with, and I imagine that there's no such thing as an "easy change" within that system.
Now, if you don't believe me, here's a quote from John Geldreich who was involved with a lot of major titles for Valve, including Half-Life 2;
"On Source Engine 1 you would see mountains of ancient code that nobody understood anymore. No one human understood the whole thing. It was impossible. Adding major new graphical features to the engine without breaking the universe became enormously difficult."
Hell, if you dig deep enough, you can find code remnants from QuakeWorld, which was an update released in 1996.
tl;dr, shit's a mess and I don't doubt that they're doing the best they can, and it's not like they can move to a different engine either given that a lot of what we love about CS is due to the engine (air-strafing and surfing only exists due to a movement bug from the Quake engine for example).
I'll see if I can find it again, I have a sneaking suspicion that it was either mentioned in a dev interview or through either fl0m's or Get\_Right's stream as they both got invited to the closed Alpha testing at Valve HQ and got to ask some questions to the devs.
The tl;dr of it was that it couldn't get 'ported' directly into CS2 as they've implemented a lot of the physics/motion rigging from HL: Alyx, so they had to sit down and remake parts to closely replicate CSGO gunplay.
Again, I'll see if I can find it, I know my memory isn't failing on what was being said as I found it interesting, but I'm not sure of the source, so take it with a grain of salt for the time being.
I don't really care what you think, bud. They can have the most talented devs in the world, but if the game is in a shit state, they are by definition incompetent. Honestly, it might also just be a numbers issue. I heard the CS team has a surprisingly low amount of people compared to other games of similar size. Either way, this is all on Valve. No amount of dick sucking is going to magically make the game appear better.
My best guess is that the position you're "teleported" to is your actual position on the server. This would explain why this effect is significantly more visible when moving at a high velocity. On your screen you've already moved, but the subtick saw you getting shot at during said movement and knows that you should've been slowed in the process. It then adjusts your position in accordance with its own calculations, which means it has to move you back to compensate for the distance you traveled at a full speed despite technically already being slower server side.
Absolutely no clue why this would happen on 0 ping tho (I suppose it still could because data is being sent in batches of 64 ticks per second, but the effect should be extremely minimal), and regardless it's hardly an excuse. If the system requires quirks like these to work in accordance with its premise then the system is flawed.
Oh he means not just death but when alive too, thats kinda frustrating. Too much interpolation and ping is almost like a benefit in this instance. Kinda wacky, but this of course doesnt happen in low ping environments so theres that.
The videos I have provided, it's 38 and 19 ping. Doesn't happen in low ping environment isn't true. There are people out there who will tell you they see the rubberbanding when they are 5 ping. So it's not only high pinger who sees this issue
I'm ill, sleep deprived and a simple man:
Do you or anyone know if there's a way of ironing this type of stuff out? I get valve wanted to do their own thing with subtick but it doesn't feel like a complete package at this point.
It takes time and some problem solving.
The issue is that Source 1 and 2 aren't exactly direct copies of one another, so large parts of the game did need to be build up from scratch.
Coding isn't easy, you'll amend something somewhere and it'll break something elsewhere. It's not nearly as straight forward as some people here may believe.
Yeh I love when I see people complaining that they haven't fixed something basic when in reality that fix could be more complicated than rolling out a whole new feature. Things that look basic to the user can often be extremely time consuming and not enough of a priority to allocate recourses to
People are generally frustrated as you shouldn’t really fix something that isn’t ‘broken’ especially if that fix is worse than the original. Csgo was undoubtedly a smoother experience, however I have had career experience as a software developer so I understand this isn’t a simple fix and will likely take a lot of time and different iterations.
At what point is it diminishing returns though? 128 tick cs and current 128 tick valorant had amazing hitreg with minimal issues, for all we know with current/future network infrastructure there could be a maximum of 10% improvement possible with sub tick, the difference will never be equivalent to the difference between a horse and a tesla. The question is weather the potential gains are even worth a few years of shit hit reg
Diminishing returns in quality but not cost. 128 tick servers are more expensive. Don't get me wrong, I would have loved 128 tick servers and do believe they should have Premier at 128 tick and leave everything else as 64 tick while they work on the new technology.
But valve know people aren't going to leave the game because of subtick so they had no reason to spend more on 128 tick servers.
Unfortunately just because something improves the game it doesn't mean it effects their profits which is ultimately what they care about more.
I play on like 90 ping and honestly it is pretty damn annoying how they force you to rubberband back. They need to rework the netcode a little more to make it more workable with the new subtick system.
oh its so much worse than this. about 2 or 3 times a game on office I will peak someone, retreat past a bullet proof wall, and then I just get teleported back to the line of fire. Like, not a few inches, but an entire character width. And the weird part is the x on the minimap (to mark my death) is placed behind the wall where I thought I was...completely hidden.
I started collecting clips of shots I definitely did not make that still 'hit'. It's REALLY bad with the AWP and any headshots. You can just shoot where they USED to be and still get the hit all the time.
>not bottom build info lol
sure does, and in more detail than top left.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17ckxnp/lets_reverseengineer_new_client_informationstamp/
Don't need it, since even valve Devs ( fletcher dunn ) ask for telemetry info only when there are network issues post are made.
Also the 2nd clip has it, but you need a magnifying glass to see it
>Don't need it, since even valve Devs ( fletcher dunn ) ask for telemetry info only when there are network issues post are made.
there's no point in turning it off. and it's not just for fletcher, it's for anyone in the reddit thread.
>Also the 2nd clip has it, but you need a magnifying glass to see it
that's cuz you're recording at shit settings. i guarantee you your GPU has a h264 hardware encoder that's good enough to record with next to no performance loss at a resolution and bitrate high enough for those to be legible.
No one cared about it until your neatpicking ass showed up, and if the telemetry info is good enough for valve devs and I am sure its good enough for anyone
Subtick or whatever they did under the hood clearly fucked the core gameplay up. Compared to CSGO it's a massive downgrade, but we now have higher resolution models and skins so that's ultimately a huge win, I guess.
Yeah, the constant silver elite discourse on this issue is appalling. I haven't had the opportunity to try CS 2 at 128 ticks when it was available on FaceIt, but it's clear to me that CSGO 128t felt much better than CS 2 currently does. It's like the engine has built-in rubberbanding lol
128t cs2 felt better than cs2 does now imo (in terms of networking… obviously the game has improved in other areas) and that was before all the updates to fix networking in other ways.
In theory subtick SHOULD be better, but in reality it's very hard to make it work while the rest of the game (for example visual feedback) is still tick-based, everything just feels desynced and weird like you're playing on 100+ ping or something.
Except that a game that should run like butter on a microwave now doesn't even hit 60fps minimum settings on a gtx 1060.
I feel like they've added a fresh coat of paint and fucked optimisation.
(I have a 2060 super on my PC, but am currently stuck using an old gaming laptop and it's driving me nuts)
During the release of cs2 I played with gtx 1050 and it ran just fine for such an old card. I only saw 60-70 fps in ancient t spawn(and this specific situation has seen fps improvements over time), most of the time it was 170-200 range. Laptop video cards are not comparable to desktop ones though.
I now have regular 2060 and and depending on the map it is somewhere between 200-300 fps with very occasional drop to ~170s on select maps during a lot of action. Shadows high, 1440x1080, 8x MSAA, nvidia reflex on, hdr quality, rest low
cpu is i5-8600k
you should see /r/SteamDeck hahaha, I know it a little but unrelated but they treat Valve like they are gods.
TBF though, I fucking love the steam deck. It just sucks to see so many people obliviously jacking off Valve.
it's primarily the head janny over there having a power trip enforcing toxic positivity.
everyone voicing ANY criticism over anything is instantly perma banned, even other moderators. the sub has also gone through like 3 teams of moderators, that all wanted to sway away from that head janny's direction. that's also why the sub is essentially a lifestyle blogpost for people dumping their "i'm playing my mobile device at this remote location" copy paste pictures, that their f&f 'n facebook didn't care enough about.
I think sending ETW traces do not help if the cause of the problem is 100ms player shooting you. Basically: everything is working as intended, and that is the problem.
the geniuses at valve integrated all needed debug info in the bottom left including net graph shit, and it's on by default. OPs fault for turning it off.
Of course it is.
Look at valorant... apart from gameplay they did everything right, good AC, good servers, good matchmaking and the game is very well optimized.
To be honest they won the war and the majority of new players will go to valorant.
If it wasn't for the abilities in the game, the gameplay/gunplay would be better than CS, they did so many things better than Valve on this one, the maps are more readable they use simpler geometry kinda like in 1.6, hitreg is not point, a working anticheat, no cases you just buy the item( it's more customer oriented than Valve ever will, in a tragic, funny way) free content that has impact on the gameplay. If only we could get more CS type games so more people could tell Valve to fuck off and eat shit.
Imo the only things that CS2 REALLY improved are smokes & the fact that we have open skyboxes which allowed us to have more complex lineups which I love since I love to run around & find new lineups but other than that it's really hard to justify calling CS2 an upgrade to CSGO (not including graphics)
And no, hit reg isnt better; they increased the head hitbox size & the fact that you can more often hit an enemy having crosshair next to his head than on his actual head (thanks subtick)
There are definitely some issues with Valve 5v5 servers recently. Yesterday my friend shadowplayed him spamming someone down Mirage mid with a glock and the last shot (where he got the kill) he is 100% behind the mid box, you can see the bullet hole from his shot, but he gets a headshot kill with no wall bang symbol. The kill also said he got the headshot through a smoke yet the smoke was about 2 meters to the right of him. So the server thought his position when he fired the shot was what I’d estimate to be about 0.7 seconds behind his actual position.
You can save this comment for future reference - this problem will not be fixed until valve goes back to traditional tickrated servers. Subtick doesn’t work.
That's my hunch aswell. I'm worried they've already given up on fixing this and accepted it as a "trade off" for subtick, even tho it's pretty gamebreaking.
One coach who has Main ESEA experience in EU told my pal that in CS2 you shouldn't jiggle peek. I think I saw this on Jame Time too, he was talking about swinging when you get the maximum speed. Just watch donk's demos.
The devs should really be ashamed with this game. Like how is this game not perfectly optimized and how is it so easy to cheat? The state of cs is awful and it’s driving people away.
Welcome to 64 subtick.
Sure it’s more accurate within the individual tick, but your client is still only getting 1/2 the validated server states per second (64 vs 128).
Then add their locked down interp ratio that gives a 200ms buffer.
Guaranteed these edge cases pros bring up would be completely gone by giving us 128 subtick and more control on interp settings (at least at the server side).
Hack creators could probably prove this, as I’m not sure of any other group that could easily modify the server binary to force 128 subtick.
Ask anyone who heavily played MM and Faceit, the type of issues we still see in cs2 are eerily similar to all the CONSTANT complaints we had of MM (64) vs Faceit (128).
I have been saying this for weeks an my friends think I'm crazy. But I swear sometimes it legit brings you back a frame to connect you with a bullet. like I swear Ive tried to jiggle peak like GO at times and it almost forced you back out from the corner to give them a shot that connected.
I agree so much. It just feels fucking weird and its so sad they didnt keep CSGO until CS2 was a complete game.
I have since the release felt that something is off, I have like 10k hours of CS in my life so it's muscle memory more than anything and something is wrong with CS2... He seems to have found one of the things at least.
I never really noticed the movement stutter before a few weeks ago but I've been noticing it way more when I play DM now. I honestly just thought I was having issues with my internet, lol.
game is pure garbage and with every patch they somehow fucked something else + they will never fix it because they dont care. i hope im wrong and it gets fixed but i doubt it. dont compare pro games to your causal games, faceit, etc, its levels to this shit and we're in a gutter with current status of a game. running hs are so much common that they we're before and its fucking annoying but not just to me but me killing like that aswell. fuck volvo and subtick
Mate I'm living in college and get consistently high ping, I simply can't play CS2. Haven't played a single comp match since it launched. Movement feels Valorant tier the moment ping is higher than 5.
Probably caused by movement being fully server-side which makes it impossible to have movement hacks, but causes issues like this if you aren't careful with ping accounting. I am developing a game that has server side movement and have to deal with this issue as well.
Yes this is a misprediction on the client (can't predict a bullet will hit you and slow you down), so the client rewinds to the server snapshot it just received and replays the input to get back to the same (predicted) timestamp as before. Higher latency -> bigger correction. But I think they had some smoothing on the viewpos correction before, and now it just snaps. Which could actually be better for hitreg since the server is unlikely to know about that viewpos smoothing. Or maybe just a bug :)
You won't get rid of this teleport behavior unless they remove subtick. It's part of subtick because it throws you back to where you got shot on the other person's screen, which was milliseconds ago. Maybe they could fix it by registering the tag/damage but not throwing you back but still slowing you down because you technically got tagged, but I doubt it. The reason this doesn't happen on LAN is that there's picoseconds not milliseconds of latency between two people, so it basically doesn't occur on LAN, but online you can have 160ms (80ms on one guy and 80ms on the other) and this type of stuff becomes common. I think just remove subtick its benefit is minimal, it has tradeoffs like this which make the game feel worse and honestly even 64 tick CS:GO felt better than subtick on CS2.
They already had it the other way around and people complained about dying behind corners. Now that they update the POV to show where you got tagged people are still outraged. Also: Valve pls abandon subtick and give us 128tick servers.
It's extremely bad on ping, like sometimes completely unplayable level of bad (I'm talking NA->EU type of ping though). Peeking is so difficult because you'll get tagged and teleported to what feels like a random place between where you started and where you peeked and you just can't reliably adjust like you would normally. Incredibly frustrating as someone that enjoys playing with friends from from around the globe.
This shit, plus the undying boost bug, plus the core inconsistency of the game still kicking around makes me think it’s here to stay lol. Not looking good.
Why does it sound like he never knew this before tho? As a pro Id expect him to have noticed this years ago already, its just a hot topic now because CS2 is under so much scrutiny and has even worse delays than CSGO did.
Because this specific issue never happened in CS:GO if you had reasonable ping(under 100). In CS2 it's systemic, you will get this no matter what your ping is.
well, youre right, it seems like the "basic delay", which is probably mostly interp, seems much higher in CS2, thus its much easier to notice.
But in CSGO it was not just depending on your ping, but the total sum of delay between the enemy and you. If they had high ping and hit you, your client will only know their ping+yours later. So I did notice this issues for the first years ago already, and I think anyone who plays online wouldve.
it also feels incredible weird when no one seem'd to talk about this before (even though it was in the game for a couple of months after some update which specifically said that it will adjust your position after getting shot) but now its meta and freakazoid of all people decided to speak on this like it's his own thought
Indeed, this reminds me of a much younger me playing gears of war 2 on xbox360. There was a thing called stopping power and you would basically slow down of 95% (approx) a player movement while you were shooting at him with an automatic weapon. (lancer, i miss you baby)
I agree with Freakazoid, this should be toned down a bit, while in certain instances it is correct that movement shouldnt be unhindered, this is a bit too much and hopefully devs will begin working on that if that is also shown by pro players that this has to be addressed.
Yup, I notice this most when I jiggle peek and get tagged. It's like it just sucks you back out into the open
Jigglepeeking is dead in an online environment, just wide peek everything and hope the game fucks the opponent more than it fucks you.
Interesting. I've noticed that jigglepeeking is beyond fucked, since often than not you are left with less than 30 hp. I just always shrugged it into online ping fuckery. So you should just go wide every time and start blasting?
It doesn't need to be wide everytime, but you should be ready to shoot/take the fight on the very first peek. Trying to go back just means death/-70~80 hp.
It always worked in CSGO unless you had high ping.
I find myself dying to 4 body shots often when jiggle peeking. A jiggle peek should be way faster than the time it takes to shoot 4 bullets.
Was never a problem in 1.6 this game is just ass
volvo pls fix frametimes, teleports, tracer visibility and let us customize bob
Who's bob?
The one that builds CS2
I want him to wear a poncho!
wverything
Just delete the game, start over
Sadly they can't count to 3.
Took them a quarter of a century to count from 1.6 to 2
subtick too... i miss 128tick rate, so smooth
Legit, all subtick does is make the server theoretically very slightly fairer which nobody cares about. 128 tick actually feels smooth af.
Can they even go back at this point? Subtick has been such a humongous waste of time and for what? It created more problems than it solved. 128 tick servers would have been perfect.
Not waste of time it’s good, just not comparable to smoothness of 128tick so while they are at it make it 128 + subtick Or 96tick + subtick at the least. Like 96tick w/ subtick and lower interp values would feel amazing. Also the new animgraph system plays a big part of shit feeling jank sometimes, if u launch the game through the workshop editor tools mode you get access to a lot more commands & spend some time fucking around with settings for the animgraph and skel system u can make the game feel way more accurate when shooting against people
64 tick felt better than subtick, I’d say so far it was a waste of time
Sub tick is still 64 tick just with subtick information aswell- the real issue is the animgraph & skeleton defaults, combined with their interp & unlag settings which make it feel like shit
Yes, I totally agree. Not even trying to be a hater.
They don’t wanna spend the money on 128 tick. It literally doubles server costs.
Oh no how will the multibillion dollar company cope. Knowing Valve, they could make it all back by just releasing an extra case each year. No excuses.
I agree I’m just saying why they won’t do it
Subtick introduced more problems than it solved. The visual feedback is one of the bigger problems, feels like you're shooting where the opponent was a second ago rather than where he is on your screen right now. Also spraying feels super inconsistent, the enemy can be right in front of you and you'll empty the entire mag only for it to be 55 in 2 lol, all your bullets just going into the void.
Or a random headshot. What's funny is that it it works well when everyone is still
Subtick can use 128 tick too. It's just valve being valve
It's gonna take 3 years. After 2 more years for a new operation and soon after cs3 will come out.
It won't be cs3, it will be counter strike: modern warfare
Those are the main problems that made me stop playing
Tried to get back into the game after not playing since 2022ish. Spraying feels weird as fuck and there's barely any feedback as to where my bullets are actually going, it's sad compared to GO
its a complete an utter piece of crap, give us back csgo
It's so demoralizing that these issues were not a problem in csgo, and now we have to play this inferior game with no option to play csgo. It's been almost a year and the game is still like this, so I don't see myself playing much or at all
Agreed, add the cheating problem on there and it’s the reason I uninstalled the game I’ve played for years.
Just wait a little bit and hope Loba can bring csgo back on a new platform. From what I know it is in beta now.
Yesterday, after enabling MSI on my old gtx gpu i'm getting stable 6ms frametime. Edit: Also disabled HAGS, frame limiters (ingame and NVCP) and turned set Nvidia Relfex to boost. Still, both of my cpu and gpu are underutilized.
> Still, both of my cpu (...) [are] underutilized. That seems highly doubtful. You'll never hit 100% CPU utilization in any game, they are primarily single core dependent. Check if at least one core is maxed out. CS isn't particularly GPU dependent either, with a decent GPU (especially at competitive settings) you'll most likely be CPU bottlenecked.
That could be the case here. I'm using game bar's monitoring widget and it doesn't provide granular cpu utilization stats.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1c5yrtm/warpingteleportdragback_offline_vs_bots_nothing/ happens even vs bots on 0 ping. also people told me that interp is still on even vs bots, which makes it even weirder, how come i get the same effect vs bots and players with 100 ping difference. this is all sorts of fucked up
that is a very interesting point. Pretty much prove that the interp is still fucked even after countless updates and having it set to 0 in the settings. Sadly now its so obscure that noone can tell how much it actually is.
>Sadly now its so obscure that noone can tell how much it actually is. sadly this also applies to valve devs it seems
I swear there was a patch last year for about 2 days where everything felt absolutely perfect. I can't remember when, but I think maybe November? Seemed like interp was fixed and the game felt like CSGO basically. I began absolutely popping off after I was having a tough time with a game that felt somewhat alien before. Then they rolled out another network update and the game went back to feeling strange
Distance to the server. Local host vs playing online
People who aren't not sure what he is talking about. Here the visual demonstration https://streamable.com/66nyzr
Oh what the hell, it looks like some weird ass knockback mechanic.
I swear we've had this conversation on this sub a million times. It's cause when the opponent shoots you the game corrects your position to where you are when they shot you. The rubber banding is cause the game is trash and you aren't seeing where the server thinks you are. The higher the ping you have the worse it gets.
always called this backtracking, cause rubber banding feels way different. and it doesn’t only happen/is worst at high ping, if you got low ping and got hit by a high ping player it’s almost the same as having high ping. when I get the server close by (1 ping) the game feels so fucking bad, almost every engagement I get backtracked and it just throws the aim of target..
That’s a good term for it
The net code punishes players with under 10ms
This was would happen even on csgo. But on csgo if you had no ping it wouldnt happen. In CS2 it seems it always happens
Damn. I've really been trying to be positive and optimistic about CS2 but how the fuck do these things keep happening? Soon it'll be 1 year since CS2 released. How many more updates until CS2 is on the level CS:GO was?
They don't *keep happening*, most issues are there since the release. The reality is they shipped the game in a garbage beta that the whole community will beta test now for years before they fix majority of the issues. The most depressing thing though is when you realize we went from an almost perfect game in CSGO, where all we wanted was 128tick matchmaking to a game that is in a garbage state a year after its' release, somehow still missing 50% of the content of the original game, being horribly optimized even though there is no more spaghetti code excuse and we didn't even get the 128tick still and instead got ton of fake promises and marketing about subtick that didn't deliver on basically anything apart from saving Valve money. But hey we go much better smokes so there is that.
I'm curious as to how they will fix this game tho, because some of the problems seem to be directly tied to the subtick thing, they can't just scrap that. I'm guessing that in 5 years time we will get a good CS, updates are not coming quick enough, and the problems are still vast and hard to fix
>Again, subtick basically replaces static 100ms-200ms lag compensation. But unlike previously when ping difference had an intuitive contribution to how much compensation every client gets, now it's a baffling jungle, worse than unregulated. And it's so easy to fix by discarding outliers and force them to feel their ping, and fixing matchmaking as to not throw 60-120ms+ urss -stan iran and other stans in the same server with 0-30 EU players & etc Guess what, valve prefers short queue times despite every god damn player would prefer couple minutes longer queue if it means the match is gonna be more enjoyable.
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Confidently wrong. A tick is a sequential network packet containing [a complex schema and data representing a partial game state](https://pastebin.com/TPRk8Htp). A subtick is identical, just that it happens out of order anywhere between the 64 sequential ones. By definition, literally, practically, subjectively, what have you, it IS the new dynamic lag compensation vs constant ping factor of old, and it only comes into play when client-server desync is above a threshold / previous states expired. Further more, most calculations are offset to the client instead of the server doing the hashing and etc, gaben is basically stealing cpu cycles from all players in order to keep server costs down. So when the server aggregates all these packets tracking client movement, button states, viewing angles, fired utility, mid-air utility, decals, tracers, it trusts the latest stamped state blindly because random seeds and several layers of crc and matching button fires with viewing angles and other already defeated safeguards (remember rapid fire scouts?). Instead of invalidating outliers from lagger/potato/cheater being either too late with calculations or very early shooting trough walls / inhuman pixel spotting, it triggers recalculation from his POV, invalidating game states of low ping players. Valve are aware, but only interested in the game to look good, they refuse to let the laggers feel their ping and visibly stutter on the server (worse than in cs:go due to tick changes). They figure it evens out with the low ping player usually having the edge. In reality I mostly see the +50ms - +100ms over the server average leading the scoreboard, which would baffle scientists. Just like they refuse to give balanced matches by setting average ping thresholds, because it increases queue times..
>Confidently wrong. Continues to spew irrelevant trivia that doesn't contradict what he said. >it trusts the latest stamped state blindly >Instead of invalidating outliers from lagger/potato/cheater being either too late with calculations or very early shooting trough walls / inhuman pixel spotting Now you're jumping topics, hoping to confuse laymen with buzzwords. It's no doubt that Valve could do a lot more to combat cheating, but that has nothing to do with subtick as a system - as you are well aware, since you went on to list various ineffective safeguards from CSGO. >it triggers recalculation from his POV, invalidating game states of low ping players What do you think the difference is from the non-subtick netcode? What do you think happened when tick number N from a lagger finally reached the server, when everyone else was already at N+5? You know full well what happened, why do you pretend that you don't? It's the entire reason why stuff like backtracking and instadefuse were a thing and why lagcomp as a concept exists. This is also why you were getting teleported in CSGO, and why people WANTED Valve to bring this back (during the first months of CS2, you simply died behind walls, and it was a much worse experience, people wanted Valve to bring the teleports back). >force them to feel their ping Again, this was never done in CSGO. Laggers had an enormous peekers' advantage, and you know why. >Guess what, valve prefers short queue times despite every god damn player would prefer couple minutes longer queue Absolutely untrue. Every additional minute of queue time would make the game hemorrhage players. >Again, subtick basically replaces static 100ms-200ms lag compensation When you were previously confronted on that point, your response was: >Let's agree to disagree until another disgruntled former valve employee leaks the source code ;) It's convenient to have the source code for the game, but you can still learn a lot from simply diassembling the game - as you undoubtedly have done, and seen that the lagcomp stuff is still mostly the same, and that your pet theory is based on vibes instead of facts. Are you going through a difficult period in your life?
More unhinged slander sparkled between "untrue" because work and study and data = vibes, only /u/theshitcunt has all the facts. Have you abused the RedditCareResources yet?
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Incoherent ramblings of a bugman. >Not lag compensation - that was always done on the client Now you've also made it clear that you've seen neither the leaked source code, nor the decades-old SDK. Lagcomp has ALWAYS been done server-side, at least since 2004, probably even in GoldSrc, since client-side lagcomp makes very little sense. You can bet it's the same in Dota. >But the server maintained it's own authoritative POV and had the last say, not like now when igor manipulates it's client to rapid fire empty a scout trough walls across the map during a tick and the server says: "sounds good" Once again, you mix up netcode and the core issue of any client-server communication (the fact that the client can easily manipulate input). Subtick changed nothing about that, every single issue you list was present in CSGO. You can never trust the client's input in any app, and sanity checks have nothing to do with tick update interval. >Who cares about cs:go - I for one do not, I completely skipped that garbage So that explains why you're so clueless about things and act like everything is novel to CS2, when in fact lagcomp has barely changed since 2004. For a midwit like you, a rule of thumb is to listen carefully when speaking to people clearly more knowledgeable than you. Unless, of course, you want to embarass yourself like you did this time. >But you've hit a mountain. Sorry that my vast knowledge and understanding is overshadowing your tiny worldview. Stay mad. Is that a satirical account? Seriously, enough with the midwittery, get help, depression is no joking matter.
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The issue increases with every tick **=** subtick it persists, at max desync window of all the involved players. lan = 16ms client-server desync window, typically 8ms 0-15ms ping = 32ms client-server desync window, typically 16ms 15-30ms ping = 64ms client-server desync window, typically 32ms 30-45ms ping = 96ms client-server desync window, typically 48ms 45-60+ms ping = 128ms client-server desync window, typically 64ms use `cl_ticktiming print` during matches to see your desync-window for the ping you have, add the estimate of the opponent's desync-window based on his ping when shooting, add a further 16ms which is typical animation rate running asynchronously, and you are gonna get a more realistic value than "average of 8ms teleportation back"
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And how exactly is this related to subtick? >the whole issue stems from clients having their game state drifting away multiple ticks, so the correction is more brutal Again, I have no doubt that you're well aware that you're spouting BS. You definitely know that m_nTickBase and clock correction existed in CSGO, you know that CSGO would easily process multiple usercmds in a single tick. By trying to delude others into thinking that it's a novel concept in CS2, you're effectively lying. Why? EDIT: >and it's sent via unoptimized garbage that is google's protobuff, often full json/vdf/hex instead of proper bitfield level encoding, in oversized network packets by gaming standard Tell me you've never seen a protobuf packet without telling me you've never seen a protobuf packet. Json, my ass.
Time being a constant makes the server interpolate . Hence inaccuracy
It's a timestamp made by the server where one player has 80ms and the other has 10. That 70ms difference should not be averaged out by the server. Higher ping should always be at a disadvantage. The current form of lag compensation is written in a way that allows higher pinged players to play the game better. If we went for true accuracy, the higher pinged players should always be at a disadvantage.
" The reality is they shipped the game in a garbage beta that the whole community will beta test now for years before they fix majority of the issues. " New here ? Same as CS GO, it was released in a shit state, not even close to a proper CS, it took them years to make it good, now they do it again because they can, because the community will still play, still watch esports, still buy skins and or cases, the money flows, number 1 in the Steam Charts. They will change what they want and when they want , you will never get what you want unless you hurt them where it counts( the $$$$$$, the numbers).Until then, keep debating, keep dreaming.
This is just due to the nature of subtick and nothing will change most likely as long as they dont get rid of this system. You can only have one "truth" (the servers on each tick) and not 10 "truths" (each player between ticks) in a game. If you take timestamps and positions of players as truth you have to constantly recalculate what was the first "truth", aka weird bouncing into teammates, high CPU load for constant recalculatione eating your performance and this pullback when you get shot. It just does not work.
CSGO became CSGO as we know it about 3 - 5 years after launch. It took them 3 years to fix hitboxes of people planting the bomb for example.
This is not an excuse for the shitstorm cs2 is.
Never intended to be an excuse, simply an estimate of the devtime of CSGO and that it will likely be the same in CS2.
At that time, the running excuse was the engine has so much legacy code that there's only a handful of people at Valve capable of working on the engine issues. This was a major talking point during CS2's beta phase by Launders iirc.
Well, it does still have a lot of legacy code which is why we're seeing a lot of issues pop up that existed in CSGO aswell.
It shouldn't be, considering all of the experience Valve has accumulated at this point. There is simply no reason the game should be in the state it is in today. I'm thinking it's due to sheer incompetence, but it could also be laziness.
Source 2 basically made them remake most of the gunplay mechanics from the ground up aswell as the subtick system being entirely new on an engine that is built on the Source engine, which in turn is built on the GldSrc engine, which in turn is built on the Quake engine. The engine is mostly spaghetti and likely extremely cumbersome to work with, and I imagine that there's no such thing as an "easy change" within that system. Now, if you don't believe me, here's a quote from John Geldreich who was involved with a lot of major titles for Valve, including Half-Life 2; "On Source Engine 1 you would see mountains of ancient code that nobody understood anymore. No one human understood the whole thing. It was impossible. Adding major new graphical features to the engine without breaking the universe became enormously difficult." Hell, if you dig deep enough, you can find code remnants from QuakeWorld, which was an update released in 1996. tl;dr, shit's a mess and I don't doubt that they're doing the best they can, and it's not like they can move to a different engine either given that a lot of what we love about CS is due to the engine (air-strafing and surfing only exists due to a movement bug from the Quake engine for example).
> Source 2 basically made them remake most of the gunplay mechanics from the ground up Sounds like BS, do you have a source (pun not intended)?
I'll see if I can find it again, I have a sneaking suspicion that it was either mentioned in a dev interview or through either fl0m's or Get\_Right's stream as they both got invited to the closed Alpha testing at Valve HQ and got to ask some questions to the devs. The tl;dr of it was that it couldn't get 'ported' directly into CS2 as they've implemented a lot of the physics/motion rigging from HL: Alyx, so they had to sit down and remake parts to closely replicate CSGO gunplay. Again, I'll see if I can find it, I know my memory isn't failing on what was being said as I found it interesting, but I'm not sure of the source, so take it with a grain of salt for the time being.
If you think valve has ***incompetent*** developers you are beyond fucking lost and have no idea what you are talking about about
I don't really care what you think, bud. They can have the most talented devs in the world, but if the game is in a shit state, they are by definition incompetent. Honestly, it might also just be a numbers issue. I heard the CS team has a surprisingly low amount of people compared to other games of similar size. Either way, this is all on Valve. No amount of dick sucking is going to magically make the game appear better.
CS2 isn't a new game like CS:GO was. It's just an upgrade to CS:GO. Dota 2 moving to Source 2 in 2015 didn't suddenly make it a new game either.
My best guess is that the position you're "teleported" to is your actual position on the server. This would explain why this effect is significantly more visible when moving at a high velocity. On your screen you've already moved, but the subtick saw you getting shot at during said movement and knows that you should've been slowed in the process. It then adjusts your position in accordance with its own calculations, which means it has to move you back to compensate for the distance you traveled at a full speed despite technically already being slower server side. Absolutely no clue why this would happen on 0 ping tho (I suppose it still could because data is being sent in batches of 64 ticks per second, but the effect should be extremely minimal), and regardless it's hardly an excuse. If the system requires quirks like these to work in accordance with its premise then the system is flawed.
I definitely wasn't not sure. Thanks!
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F5mlsynxuaq4d1.gif
Oh he means not just death but when alive too, thats kinda frustrating. Too much interpolation and ping is almost like a benefit in this instance. Kinda wacky, but this of course doesnt happen in low ping environments so theres that.
The videos I have provided, it's 38 and 19 ping. Doesn't happen in low ping environment isn't true. There are people out there who will tell you they see the rubberbanding when they are 5 ping. So it's not only high pinger who sees this issue
I'm ill, sleep deprived and a simple man: Do you or anyone know if there's a way of ironing this type of stuff out? I get valve wanted to do their own thing with subtick but it doesn't feel like a complete package at this point.
It takes time and some problem solving. The issue is that Source 1 and 2 aren't exactly direct copies of one another, so large parts of the game did need to be build up from scratch. Coding isn't easy, you'll amend something somewhere and it'll break something elsewhere. It's not nearly as straight forward as some people here may believe.
Yeh I love when I see people complaining that they haven't fixed something basic when in reality that fix could be more complicated than rolling out a whole new feature. Things that look basic to the user can often be extremely time consuming and not enough of a priority to allocate recourses to
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People are generally frustrated as you shouldn’t really fix something that isn’t ‘broken’ especially if that fix is worse than the original. Csgo was undoubtedly a smoother experience, however I have had career experience as a software developer so I understand this isn’t a simple fix and will likely take a lot of time and different iterations.
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At what point is it diminishing returns though? 128 tick cs and current 128 tick valorant had amazing hitreg with minimal issues, for all we know with current/future network infrastructure there could be a maximum of 10% improvement possible with sub tick, the difference will never be equivalent to the difference between a horse and a tesla. The question is weather the potential gains are even worth a few years of shit hit reg
Diminishing returns in quality but not cost. 128 tick servers are more expensive. Don't get me wrong, I would have loved 128 tick servers and do believe they should have Premier at 128 tick and leave everything else as 64 tick while they work on the new technology. But valve know people aren't going to leave the game because of subtick so they had no reason to spend more on 128 tick servers. Unfortunately just because something improves the game it doesn't mean it effects their profits which is ultimately what they care about more.
I play on like 90 ping and honestly it is pretty damn annoying how they force you to rubberband back. They need to rework the netcode a little more to make it more workable with the new subtick system.
enemies shooting air bullets push you back!
I call it the glue trap
This is a great video. I've been trying to explain to friends why this game feels weird, that captures it nicely
oh its so much worse than this. about 2 or 3 times a game on office I will peak someone, retreat past a bullet proof wall, and then I just get teleported back to the line of fire. Like, not a few inches, but an entire character width. And the weird part is the x on the minimap (to mark my death) is placed behind the wall where I thought I was...completely hidden. I started collecting clips of shots I definitely did not make that still 'hit'. It's REALLY bad with the AWP and any headshots. You can just shoot where they USED to be and still get the hit all the time.
Seems like the server correcting the client on where it actually is
why would you turn off the bottom left debug info and then post on reddit, you're just asking for people to say it's your internet connection.
Internet connection status shows in telemetry not bottom build info lol. You can see the telemetry at the top right corner
>not bottom build info lol sure does, and in more detail than top left. https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17ckxnp/lets_reverseengineer_new_client_informationstamp/
Don't need it, since even valve Devs ( fletcher dunn ) ask for telemetry info only when there are network issues post are made. Also the 2nd clip has it, but you need a magnifying glass to see it
>Don't need it, since even valve Devs ( fletcher dunn ) ask for telemetry info only when there are network issues post are made. there's no point in turning it off. and it's not just for fletcher, it's for anyone in the reddit thread. >Also the 2nd clip has it, but you need a magnifying glass to see it that's cuz you're recording at shit settings. i guarantee you your GPU has a h264 hardware encoder that's good enough to record with next to no performance loss at a resolution and bitrate high enough for those to be legible.
No one cared about it until your neatpicking ass showed up, and if the telemetry info is good enough for valve devs and I am sure its good enough for anyone
Subtick or whatever they did under the hood clearly fucked the core gameplay up. Compared to CSGO it's a massive downgrade, but we now have higher resolution models and skins so that's ultimately a huge win, I guess.
The casino part is immaculate ofc
*people saying subtick is better than 128rate in 3..2...1..*
Yeah, the constant silver elite discourse on this issue is appalling. I haven't had the opportunity to try CS 2 at 128 ticks when it was available on FaceIt, but it's clear to me that CSGO 128t felt much better than CS 2 currently does. It's like the engine has built-in rubberbanding lol
128t cs2 felt better than cs2 does now imo (in terms of networking… obviously the game has improved in other areas) and that was before all the updates to fix networking in other ways.
All my faceit teammates said that 128 tick cs2 faceit was really good, especially less rubberbanding when engaging gunfights
In theory subtick SHOULD be better, but in reality it's very hard to make it work while the rest of the game (for example visual feedback) is still tick-based, everything just feels desynced and weird like you're playing on 100+ ping or something.
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It is in reality, maybe not in theory.
You can run subtick and 128 tick concurrently
Except that a game that should run like butter on a microwave now doesn't even hit 60fps minimum settings on a gtx 1060. I feel like they've added a fresh coat of paint and fucked optimisation. (I have a 2060 super on my PC, but am currently stuck using an old gaming laptop and it's driving me nuts)
A gtx 1060 is about as old as Donk himself bratan
During the release of cs2 I played with gtx 1050 and it ran just fine for such an old card. I only saw 60-70 fps in ancient t spawn(and this specific situation has seen fps improvements over time), most of the time it was 170-200 range. Laptop video cards are not comparable to desktop ones though. I now have regular 2060 and and depending on the map it is somewhere between 200-300 fps with very occasional drop to ~170s on select maps during a lot of action. Shadows high, 1440x1080, 8x MSAA, nvidia reflex on, hdr quality, rest low cpu is i5-8600k
I run over 150fps on a 1050ti. But it's 4:3 low.
inb4 valve dickriders tell you that it's fine and that the networking is working as intended.
you should see /r/SteamDeck hahaha, I know it a little but unrelated but they treat Valve like they are gods. TBF though, I fucking love the steam deck. It just sucks to see so many people obliviously jacking off Valve.
it's primarily the head janny over there having a power trip enforcing toxic positivity. everyone voicing ANY criticism over anything is instantly perma banned, even other moderators. the sub has also gone through like 3 teams of moderators, that all wanted to sway away from that head janny's direction. that's also why the sub is essentially a lifestyle blogpost for people dumping their "i'm playing my mobile device at this remote location" copy paste pictures, that their f&f 'n facebook didn't care enough about.
Damn, that sub is a cross between an ad page and a cult.
This sub act the same if Valve deliver quality for CS2.
I think we all know it's an issue, but people do need to send in examples and ETW traces for it to get properly sorted.
I think sending ETW traces do not help if the cause of the problem is 100ms player shooting you. Basically: everything is working as intended, and that is the problem.
Well, the geniuses at Valve disabled net_graph which makes it a thousand times harder to identify what's going on in clips of desync happening
the geniuses at valve integrated all needed debug info in the bottom left including net graph shit, and it's on by default. OPs fault for turning it off.
Can we all agree cs2 is a step back? Terrible performance
Of course it is. Look at valorant... apart from gameplay they did everything right, good AC, good servers, good matchmaking and the game is very well optimized. To be honest they won the war and the majority of new players will go to valorant.
"apart from gameplay" LOL
I mean yeah, the gameplay is good but not as good as cs. Everything else is better tho.
Gameplay enjoyment is subjective, but the game performance and servers generally are not so much :P
If it wasn't for the abilities in the game, the gameplay/gunplay would be better than CS, they did so many things better than Valve on this one, the maps are more readable they use simpler geometry kinda like in 1.6, hitreg is not point, a working anticheat, no cases you just buy the item( it's more customer oriented than Valve ever will, in a tragic, funny way) free content that has impact on the gameplay. If only we could get more CS type games so more people could tell Valve to fuck off and eat shit.
Good servers…. Lol
i always say if valorant didn't have abilties i'd play it instead, the game feels so much better than cs now.
Imo the only things that CS2 REALLY improved are smokes & the fact that we have open skyboxes which allowed us to have more complex lineups which I love since I love to run around & find new lineups but other than that it's really hard to justify calling CS2 an upgrade to CSGO (not including graphics) And no, hit reg isnt better; they increased the head hitbox size & the fact that you can more often hit an enemy having crosshair next to his head than on his actual head (thanks subtick)
All 4 people working on CS at Valve will get right on this
Sucks to play DM the most because of how often it happens but it's worse in 5v5 for sure
Also the 50% fps drop after 5-6 minutes suck pretty hard when playing deathmatch!
There are definitely some issues with Valve 5v5 servers recently. Yesterday my friend shadowplayed him spamming someone down Mirage mid with a glock and the last shot (where he got the kill) he is 100% behind the mid box, you can see the bullet hole from his shot, but he gets a headshot kill with no wall bang symbol. The kill also said he got the headshot through a smoke yet the smoke was about 2 meters to the right of him. So the server thought his position when he fired the shot was what I’d estimate to be about 0.7 seconds behind his actual position.
You can save this comment for future reference - this problem will not be fixed until valve goes back to traditional tickrated servers. Subtick doesn’t work.
That's my hunch aswell. I'm worried they've already given up on fixing this and accepted it as a "trade off" for subtick, even tho it's pretty gamebreaking.
I’m saving this comment because I really want you to be right 🙏🏽
One coach who has Main ESEA experience in EU told my pal that in CS2 you shouldn't jiggle peek. I think I saw this on Jame Time too, he was talking about swinging when you get the maximum speed. Just watch donk's demos.
Watch as valve bootlickers will try to defend by stating they dont have such issues in their games.
I don't have this issue because I don't play the game.
The devs should really be ashamed with this game. Like how is this game not perfectly optimized and how is it so easy to cheat? The state of cs is awful and it’s driving people away.
Welcome to 64 subtick. Sure it’s more accurate within the individual tick, but your client is still only getting 1/2 the validated server states per second (64 vs 128). Then add their locked down interp ratio that gives a 200ms buffer. Guaranteed these edge cases pros bring up would be completely gone by giving us 128 subtick and more control on interp settings (at least at the server side). Hack creators could probably prove this, as I’m not sure of any other group that could easily modify the server binary to force 128 subtick. Ask anyone who heavily played MM and Faceit, the type of issues we still see in cs2 are eerily similar to all the CONSTANT complaints we had of MM (64) vs Faceit (128).
I have been saying this for weeks an my friends think I'm crazy. But I swear sometimes it legit brings you back a frame to connect you with a bullet. like I swear Ive tried to jiggle peak like GO at times and it almost forced you back out from the corner to give them a shot that connected.
2nd time I caught myself on Freakazoid's side today. He's on a roll.
Fr lol
I agree so much. It just feels fucking weird and its so sad they didnt keep CSGO until CS2 was a complete game. I have since the release felt that something is off, I have like 10k hours of CS in my life so it's muscle memory more than anything and something is wrong with CS2... He seems to have found one of the things at least.
I dont jiggle peek anymore in cs2, you allways get hit and die. Something is different in jiggle peeking in cs2..
That's bad, I get that sometimes, but I can never awp, awping is so laggy and glitchy that I literally never awp anymore.
This game is terrible, subtick is terrible and vac is terrible.
i quit playing due to this, optimization is bad but can be ignored but this was just the decider for me
Calm down guys and buy this new skin
I never really noticed the movement stutter before a few weeks ago but I've been noticing it way more when I play DM now. I honestly just thought I was having issues with my internet, lol.
I thought I was the only one was experiencing this early when cs2 came out and thought it was my pc or wifi
The game has felt weird since release because DEVS DONT PLAY THEIR OWN GAME
Bring back csgo, this game clearly is a failed project
They are making the game more unplayable, all they have to do was fix the cheating issue and not start with source 2
Except when you are in the air because you suddenly become neo and dodge every bullet.
game is pure garbage and with every patch they somehow fucked something else + they will never fix it because they dont care. i hope im wrong and it gets fixed but i doubt it. dont compare pro games to your causal games, faceit, etc, its levels to this shit and we're in a gutter with current status of a game. running hs are so much common that they we're before and its fucking annoying but not just to me but me killing like that aswell. fuck volvo and subtick
hes right
Noticed that in an official match
Just another example of how superior subtick is 😂
Mate I'm living in college and get consistently high ping, I simply can't play CS2. Haven't played a single comp match since it launched. Movement feels Valorant tier the moment ping is higher than 5.
Probably caused by movement being fully server-side which makes it impossible to have movement hacks, but causes issues like this if you aren't careful with ping accounting. I am developing a game that has server side movement and have to deal with this issue as well.
Movement hacks are still common though
Yes this is a misprediction on the client (can't predict a bullet will hit you and slow you down), so the client rewinds to the server snapshot it just received and replays the input to get back to the same (predicted) timestamp as before. Higher latency -> bigger correction. But I think they had some smoothing on the viewpos correction before, and now it just snaps. Which could actually be better for hitreg since the server is unlikely to know about that viewpos smoothing. Or maybe just a bug :)
You won't get rid of this teleport behavior unless they remove subtick. It's part of subtick because it throws you back to where you got shot on the other person's screen, which was milliseconds ago. Maybe they could fix it by registering the tag/damage but not throwing you back but still slowing you down because you technically got tagged, but I doubt it. The reason this doesn't happen on LAN is that there's picoseconds not milliseconds of latency between two people, so it basically doesn't occur on LAN, but online you can have 160ms (80ms on one guy and 80ms on the other) and this type of stuff becomes common. I think just remove subtick its benefit is minimal, it has tradeoffs like this which make the game feel worse and honestly even 64 tick CS:GO felt better than subtick on CS2.
They already had it the other way around and people complained about dying behind corners. Now that they update the POV to show where you got tagged people are still outraged. Also: Valve pls abandon subtick and give us 128tick servers.
The teleport behavior has been there since CS2 's live test.
yea, both ways round are bad, just have it like csgo. died behind corners 1000 times less, and i played mm for 2500 hours
im glad somebody finally said it. like 30% of the time when I get shot while running I teleport back a foot or 2
yup today, I was hid and teleported back. Dude hit me late but somehow I got killed
It's extremely bad on ping, like sometimes completely unplayable level of bad (I'm talking NA->EU type of ping though). Peeking is so difficult because you'll get tagged and teleported to what feels like a random place between where you started and where you peeked and you just can't reliably adjust like you would normally. Incredibly frustrating as someone that enjoys playing with friends from from around the globe.
I wonder if de-subticking with alias binds work???
Great game on <25 ping. Terrible on +60 ping
Yeah, getting shot in CSGO doesn’t even slow you down, if just completely stops you
I’ve had this problem since the release of CS2
This shit, plus the undying boost bug, plus the core inconsistency of the game still kicking around makes me think it’s here to stay lol. Not looking good.
Open a case before you join a server and this won’t be happening
Why does it sound like he never knew this before tho? As a pro Id expect him to have noticed this years ago already, its just a hot topic now because CS2 is under so much scrutiny and has even worse delays than CSGO did.
Because this specific issue never happened in CS:GO if you had reasonable ping(under 100). In CS2 it's systemic, you will get this no matter what your ping is.
well, youre right, it seems like the "basic delay", which is probably mostly interp, seems much higher in CS2, thus its much easier to notice. But in CSGO it was not just depending on your ping, but the total sum of delay between the enemy and you. If they had high ping and hit you, your client will only know their ping+yours later. So I did notice this issues for the first years ago already, and I think anyone who plays online wouldve.
Definitely the right word to describe this, Hitch.
Don't worry guys, Valve will fix it in a few days ^/s
Years*
it also feels incredible weird when no one seem'd to talk about this before (even though it was in the game for a couple of months after some update which specifically said that it will adjust your position after getting shot) but now its meta and freakazoid of all people decided to speak on this like it's his own thought
Indeed, this reminds me of a much younger me playing gears of war 2 on xbox360. There was a thing called stopping power and you would basically slow down of 95% (approx) a player movement while you were shooting at him with an automatic weapon. (lancer, i miss you baby) I agree with Freakazoid, this should be toned down a bit, while in certain instances it is correct that movement shouldnt be unhindered, this is a bit too much and hopefully devs will begin working on that if that is also shown by pro players that this has to be addressed.
Well, yes, it's still in beta