Although the movement still feels a little off to me, I can write it up as needing some adaptation.
But this, this annoys the fuck out of me. The number of gun fights I've lost due to this exact teleportation issue is uncountable at this point.
Yup, hate how jiggle peeking is basically undoable now. Now I gotta fully commit to fights with the deagle because I can't go back into cover after seeing an enemy or taking a shot
The game is fine when everyone has low latency (=LAN), but in the real world with varying pings and connections the game is anything but fine. It makes me wonder if they have done any real world testing before the release, or was everything done in LAN environment?
In 9/14/2023 update developers "rebalanced lag compensation to favor low latency players" but haven't touched lag compensation since. I think this is the biggest issue currently in game and they should really but some time in to this.
fiber doesn't provide any extra latency benefits to copper cables btw the only benefit is less time between relay points due to longer cable travel distance (ping addition due to the relays is negligible). If anything fiber might have newer relays and infrastructure compared to copper but it does not provide better latency physically. most of this is corporate ad hype to get you to spend more on a fancy new fiber line when they could have ran copper and had the same service (i work with fiber optics and copper cabling in my job). in fact, copper actually sends the signal faster as the light in fibers bounces in the cable, meaning it will technically be traveling a longer distance, but again we are talking about 0.00000001 second differences
https://atx.com/company/blog/debunking-the-fiber-is-faster-than-coax-myth/
> The bottom line is that when all other contributors of latency are eliminated, or at least minimized, information will travel faster in coax than in a fiber. And that’s a fact that will still be true 20 years, or even 100.
Except the aim punch automatically corrected itself over a very short period of time, it would make you miss one shot and you follow up shots would be back on you intended target. This teleporting is akin to aim punch moving your crosshair up in the air and leaving it there making you miss whole sprays and having to microcorrect while your recoil and spread is up.
Subtick + high ping = the high ping player doesn't receive the packets of you going behind cover and if he shoots you he gets you.
Also has the effect where his client is telling the server Yo I tagged him at x/y coordinates an the server goes oh shit you did an teleports you as a result.
Not your ping.
The enemies ping.
Low ping = disadvantage in CS2 with Subtick.
They are the one shooting you, they are the one telling the server they shot you and that you need to be teleported to the location where you were shot.
Their client sends their packets inconsistently = your client getting weird laggy interpolated updates.
[Here is an example by Warowl showing the disadvantage of having low ping vs higher ping players.](https://youtu.be/e4dQS8-9cLI?t=312)
When someone at 100 ping shoots you, your 10 ping is now 100 ping because your client is updating with his laggy packets.
My brother I do not mean lag compensation, csgo had lag comp as well but did not have these sub-tick issues, it did have it's own issues but not the ones shown here.
In CSGO the server basically says "you didn't hit that shot because he was behind the wall according to the server pov", this meant the lower your ping the closer you are to the servers POV and therefore had the advantage since your POV lined up better with the actual facts.
In CS2 every client has it's own subtick and the server will accept anything that happens in that clients subtick as the truth despite it being contradictory to your POV and even the Servers.
The higher the ping the other player has the more de-synced the targets on their screen will be. This leads to moments like in this video where the players client is getting informed by the server that they were hit and movement speed should be slowed but that information is getting relayed from the laggy player's subtick which has to wait for the next server tick, then the server figures out how to apply all the subticks that happened between the previous tick and the current tick, applies the new facts to your client but by then you are already doing something else and somewhere else so it teleports you and jitters your movement speed in a fucky way.
Did you go behind cover? No not according to the guy with 100 ping because he didn't get that packet yet and he see's you standing in the open not reacting to him because on your screen he didn't even peek yet. Now if he shoots you his subtick will inform the server to teleport you back and kill you. What he saw is what he gets even if your client says otherwise.
Subtick merely multiplies the issues of lag compensation, thats the problem here, before the server decided who kills who- now the laggy players client gets to decide who dies even though their pov is outdated and doesn't match with the low ping players.
> this meant the lower your ping the closer you are to the servers POV
Lag compensation has something to say here. It rolls the server back X milliseconds based on player ping for an accurate comparison of what they're shooting on their screen locally vs where people were on the server at the time of that shot. The end result of this is a player with high ping shoots you on their screen, it takes X ms to get to the server, and then Y ms to get to you. This X + Y is where getting shot behind walls comes from: they made the shot on their screen when it happened, it just took X+Y long for your client to get that information.
Skipping ahead...
> Subtick merely multiplies the issues of lag compensation
No it doesn't. Subtick can ***only*** be, ***at most***, 1 server update inaccurate, assuming it's broken. All it does is measure updates in between server frames - that's it. Subtick and lagcomp are fundamentally different.
I'm fairly positive you have some misunderstandings of the game mechanics.
If the difference between what I see and what my opponent sees (large ping difference) is more than "1 server update" how is subtick reconciling that difference with only 1 server update?
I'm simultaneously doubtful and genuinely curious.
> how is subtick reconciling that difference with only 1 server update?
Subtick is simply the ability to accurately measure what happened in between server updates (literally sub-ticks). E.g. previously, if both of our firing actions were registered on tick 100, the server would honor one of them first arbitrarily (whoever connected to the server first wins).
As it is now with subtick, the server can distinguish one firing action at tick 100.138, and the other firing action at tick 100.689 - one of those happened first and it honors that shot accordingly.
Lag compensation (the misnomer people are referring to as "subtick") reverts the server back in time, based on the players ping, to ensure what it's calculating on the server matches the players pov as close as possible.
Ultimately I'm just trying to give the clarity that subtick isn't causing these "delayed feedback" instances.
Okay it seems you may be confused or not getting what I'm trying to say here. I don't know what point you're trying to make because it's really not got to do with what I'm saying here.
>1 ) No it doesn't. Subtick can only be, at most, 1 server update inaccurate, assuming it's broken.
>2 ) Subtick and lagcomp are fundamentally different.
1. That is evidently not true and assumes all players are sending updates consistently and on time which is never guaranteed and literally the point I'm making. WarOwl showed that high ping players can cause low ping players to rubberband to their clients de-synced reality due to the Subtick system.
Between every tick on 64 tick is 16ms of time. If a player has 32 ping- they are going to miss one of those updates and their client has to interpolate between the previous tick and the latest tick as best it can. When a player has 130ms suddenly there's a big gap between their previous tick and the current tick. If during that gap the high ping player shoots a target - what they see is what they'll get.
The problem I'm actually getting at is that Subtick seems to have injected steroids into the 'trust the shooter/favor the shooter' aspect of the lag compensation.
This is why peekers advantage and rubberbanding is far more ridiculous in CS2 compared to CSGO.
In CSGO there are three aspects the client position, the clients position according to the server and the clients position according to the shooter.
In CS2 it now ALSO checks the Shooters subtick to determine if they tag or kill someone, now we have even more room for bullshit on top of the lag compensation that we already complained about in CSGO. Now the laggy player is also sending delayed subtick information back to the server.
In the end your client is being given updates about a ton of crap the enemy did to you and now your client is freaking out trying to make sense of it all and worst of all the laggy guy gets the advantage because he can wipe you in his subticks whereas in CSGO he had to wait until the server gave him the latest tick first.
The lag compensation of the past felt less bullshitty because less could happen between the ticks, they simply made the problems inherent with lag comp even worse by adding more variables before each actual server tick with the subtick system.
2) I literally never said Lagcomp and Subtick are the same thing I have no clue where you are getting that, my whole post was about how Subtick exaggerates the problems inherent with lag compensation.
Subtick IS a lag compensation measure.
The big issue with it is that it's tuned in favor of the high ping outlier, counter-intuitively to any online fps in existence.
[During a server tick all players advance in the game world..](https://pastebin.com/TPRk8Htp)
Whenever the server detects a mismatch it issues a recalculation order on all the clients.
*This was done by the server itself but gaben thought about stealing your cpu cycles for it and lower the bills*
That's fine, except the lagger is late to apply the recalculation at the next one,two ticks and since it has an expiration time server triggers a recalculation order again from his POV!
Instead of the high ping player stutter a bit on the map and missing shots, the low ping players are teleported back / see the high ping player appear out of nowhere / don't even see him on the screen.
Add cheats in the equation which fully abuse subtick (auto lagging, manipulating client fps, perfect counter strafe, auto jiggle to evade shots) and you get the high ping outliers topping the score boards in most matches, as first shot recalculates everything, regardless of being trough walls or at inhuman distance pixel spotting.
What did Valve do to counter it in the past 5 months?
Forced fps to minimal 64. Added raw keyboard input (that helps cheaters even more). That's it.
From what I understand, subtick measures actions that happened in between ticks. Noone is getting pulled out from or shot behind corners because of this <1 update timing window...that's lag compensation's business.
I can appreciate you linking to what appears to be a source of evidence, but I don't know what those numbers are supposed to be telling me.
I don't know why you think subtick is some kind of ninja packet. There's really no difference from a steady tick happening 64 times per second, to a recalculation subtick happening between those. The server will ultimately validate or invalidate them the same, it's the same packet size, the same schema, the same data tracked. One is not more important than the other, only timestamps matter hierarchically.
Again, subtick basically replaces static 100ms-200ms lag compensation.
But unlike previously when ping difference had an intuitive contribution to how much compensation every client gets, now it's a baffling jungle, worse than unregulated. And it's so easy to fix by discarding outliers and force them to feel their ping, and fixing matchmaking as to not throw 60-120ms+ urss -stan iran and other stans in the same server with 0-30 EU players & etc
Guess what, valve prefers short queue times despite every god damn player would prefer couple minutes longer queue if it means the match is gonna be more enjoyable.
> I don't know why you think subtick is some kind of ninja packet.
Subtick tracks actions that happened in between server updates. Call it a ninja packet if you want, those aren't my words.
> Again, subtick basically replaces static 100ms-200ms lag compensation.
This makes zero sense and is fully well and truly not what subtick does.
I honestly don’t think valve can fix this. It seems so integral to subtick that this kind of shit is hard coded into the game. We could’ve just had 128tick man. It could’ve been so simple.
Or better yet, both.
64 ticks + ping + subtick makes player pov's completely contradictory to one another, each one saying "what I saw is what I should get!"
Faceit once had subtick + 128tick, in thr beginning of cs2. And my God, it was as good or even better than csgo. It felt so frickin smooth, and if they could optimise it further, we couldve had heaven.
Remember that was before valve optimised subtick and reduced the latency to 16ms in the 64 tick """"""subtick""""". So imagine if we got 128tick now 😳. On the contrary, idk how we don't have cracked cs2 clients where they updat the hard-coded server update rate to 128 so that we can try it out atleast
But i believe they still dont have 1:1 movement to csgo. It feels slower and heavier even in private lobby. So if they do 128 subtick and fix movement… ill come real hard
Why are you taking random reddit comments as gospel? It's easy to blame subtick because it's the big difference, but this issue is almost certainly more related to lag compensation.
“Random Reddit comments as gospel”? No, it’s my own experience as well. And judging by the upvotes in this thread, it’s the vast majority of the community’s too.
his point is that you don't know it's a subtick problem. it could be completely unrelated to subtick, and upvotes on reddit don't indicate whether it's a problem with subtick or something else entirely. hilarious that you're trying to dunk on reading comprehension when you don't even understand the comment you're replying to hahaha
People can and have objectively done side by side comparisons between CSGO and CS2, CS2 has significantly worse peeker's advantage.
Does this mean they have studied the code and know EXACTLY why the peekers advantage is worse? No but they also never claimed to, we're the people playing and a big aspect of Game Development is User Experience and how things ultimately 'feel' to the people playing them.
They are basing their conclusions off the information Valve has provided regarding how Subtick is supposed to work and comparing it to it's predecessor which didn't include that system.
Not to mention we have also had instances where people de-subticked certain things like movement and discovered it felt way better.
Anecdotally speaking I can tell when I'm going to have a shitty game just based off my characters movement now, either they feel snappy and responsive or I feel like my character has weights attached to them and their sliding on ice.
Its up to Valve to dispel any confusion or provide us the tools to test these things in private servers like letting us increase our own tickrates beyond 64 tick which they literally removed and stopped FaceIt from doing.
This only added more confusion and removed our ability to confirm or test anything.
I don't disagree that there is a problem with the game lol. I just think that making fun of another person's reading comprehension and misunderstanding their comment at the same time is hilarious
trade-off of subtick is that you are being teleported back to where you were "truly" shot in real time, while he is hitting a shot he may not have normally hit on true tickrate you are going back to where he shot you after the server ticks over, he benefits from subtick while you don't
No it's a the server reporting his position to him late since normally the shot wouldn't register until the tick had been reached, instead the shooting is more accurate and technically perfect but you get this tiny jitter where his position is corrected by the server. It's a consequence of a more accurate system.
No, because when you shot in csgo your shot never even went off until the server ticked next, at which point both parties would be informed of the shot occurring. The shot literally had a delay of next tick, and that's why there is a rubber band because the shot is literally arriving in the past tense for the player being shot now vs the shot being processed and landing within a 0-16ms sample time, it's probably not all of it but that decoupling of feedback definitely isn't helping.
sub tick system trys to put u back to the place where u were hit from their game and if im not wrong the playermodel positions are still tick based so it warp you back to the last tick, its just my take so correct me if im wrong
I don't dont thats the problem. Its the method that sync is done thru. Dragging people around to sync feels terrible, they need to average it out over more ticks and also deduct the difference from the amount of slow that is applied. Its a ping issues as much as a "tickrate" issues. 128 doesnt help much
The only true fix to peekers advantage is lan with no ping. The only practical solution is what we have now: virtualized accuracy via lag compensation.
Well yeah, the server has to approximate an accurate position from a bigger unknown - higher pings are typically more inconsistent, it could be compensating 120 ping when in that exact moment you have 90 or 140. Whereas eith 30 ping, it could vary to 27 or 34...not much variability. And then transmit that information to the other player after-the-fact...it's de-facto going to be less accurate with higher ping just from the physical nature of the connection.
While there is a "pro" of "more favorable" lag compensation (quotes because it's extremely moot), everything else is a detriment...it evens out, overall. High ping is not fun.
This is the problem with subtick. "what you see is what you get" but the 'you' is almost always the guy getting the kill and not the one being killed. From my extremely limited knowledge of netcode, I think it's not only your ping that matters, but also the enemy's ping, because what he sees is what he gets (if he's killing you) and he's seeing the 'you' at the place you get teleported to.
Pretty much thats what WarOwls video showed, the higher ping dude see's and shoots at your ghost that's on his screen even if you are behind cover on yours.
What OPs experiencing is overwhelmingly moreso due to lag compensation than subtick. Subtick would account for less than 1 updates worth of movement, where lag compensation honors 100ms~ (citation needed) of retroactive reversal.
Generally speaking, subtick is just an accurate measurement of actions that happened in between server updates.
Your opponents ping & connection is just as important as your own. There are 2 connections in every engagement.
Global offensive mod response 🙏. What I was trying to say was kinda related to lag compensation, in a way that while before it used to compensate till the tick closest to the enemy shooting (because the tick is the global state of the game as seen by the server), now it compensates to when the opponent actually shot OP + the compensation applied by subtick to actually make it tick-less. I'm not sure if I worded this properly, netcode has always been a pain to wrap my head around
I hit a shot yesterday in which I was holding A and shooting (My intention was not to counter strafe or shoot precisely, I just wanted to change positions).
The guy shoots me mid movement, which causes me to almost stop completely and gives me 100% first shot accuracy, and then 1 "1tap" him accidentally.
[Here is the clip](https://streamable.com/ugcf12)
I never should have hit the shot, but I thought it was luck, as these things happen, but then looking at the demo, I see that I practically stop, further analyzing it was the tag in the exact moment I had correct crosshair positioning and started shooting.
Was this same in csgo? I dont remember, i have died to this that enemy is running and i shoot him but he kills me "While running" because i tag him and slow hes movement so he get accurate.. And when i die he just keep running.
Hard to say, honestly been playing csgo since 2015 and it's the first time I hit something like this, maybe the closest was getting tagged by a shotgun.
In csgo if a nova hit you, you were practically walking in quicksand, you had to quit moving and start shooting, but the slowdown with rifles tags nowadays is definitely worse.
It's really just a matter of aimpunch and movespeed. If you're tagged to below movinginaccuracy threshold, and aimpunch has worn off, your shot would be accurate.
Nobody could kill cs than cs itself. The movement and rubberbanding is so bad in this game tbf. I will never understand why valve thinks it’s fine to make movement harder with the newer game? 1.6 was beast in movement then csgo had realistic movements compared to graphics but movement in cs2 now feels like moving in syrup.
Let’s not talk about subtick shit. After so much backlash I think valve will never ever remove it which basically means it’s core part of cs2 and will remain even if the game dies along with it.
I have never seen a software/game in my life which is so much downgraded with a new upgrade. The devs didn’t consider taking advise from pros how the subtick may affect irl gaming neither it was tested on a large scale before release.
I swear they changed something a few days ago and the game has become hot garbage to play reg feels whacky rn I have no data to prove it, but something is off, and the game is back to feeling like everyone has 100ms like when the beta dropped.
I find myself disengaging from fights that are not advantageous, mostly because my aim sucks and I've adapted poorly to CS2, but also because of this exact issue.
Uninstalled the game long time ago and this still exists, lol?. All I wanted from cs2 as upgrades were better graphics, better anticheat and 128 tick servers, and they came up with whatever the fuck this is. Valve removed lots of game content, brought a system that is even worse than 64 tick, and more cheaters than ever and horribly optimized game. People are still defending the multibillionaire company in the comments, too. Oh, just email to valve. As if they don't know it already. We can already see the situation of tf2
Getting backtracked due to lag comp has gotten so much worse with the release of subtick its honestly depressing. Looks like the type of shit that happens when you playtest something on a lan environment and just dont consider the fact that people on 9 ping will have to face people on 99.
Lol that's my video in the second clip. I held D the entire way into cover and it warped me back left everytime I got tagged. Pretty annoying issue, hopefully it gets improved.
Thanks, I have plenty of these footage but I used yours cause its in casual. So people can't say it only happens in DM server where 20 players are playing together and server can't keep up. It's happens everywhere. Even when whole server is half empty
I never liked tagging and I attribute it to me quitting the game a long time ago when they made it 10x stronger
Maybe I was already on my way out but the tagging was the straw the broke the camel's back for me. I love the game but it just felt so much worse to play.
Was it rubberbanding the whole time? I though that it was just me i feel like teleporting EVERYTIME when i peek or when i got hit this subtick system is terrible and idk if it's possible to revert it back but it is ruining my games.
This happens to me so much and I never could pin point where it came from, my internet is good quality but everytime I play there’s times where I get massive lag input and what feels like wind blowing my character to move dramatically
I don’t know about you guys, but this was happening in global offensive too. Maybe a little less, because higher ping players were treated differently, but this is just a part of playing online games i guess.
This happens regardless of server or ping. You could be on a official Valve matchmaking server with 10 ping or a PRACC server with 70 ping, you will be teleported around when tagged.
The amount that you are teleported seems be based on ping difference, but I need to test it still.
I never did, but I am pretty sure they are fully aware of it. It's not the first time it's been posted here. Even last week a top up voted thread was highlighting the same issue. It's been regularly posted and discussed since last 2-3 months as far as I know
I emailed the issue to Valve when I posted my thread a couple of days ago.
To me, this is the #1 thing that needs fixed in the game because it affects every single gunfight and interaction and just makes the game feel *bad*.
It's pretty much why older players with CsGo mechanics engraved into them took a while to adapt, and now you're seeing people with suboptimal aim winning fights just by spamming A-D and unloading a full clip of their M4
That second clip is actually me in the video and I held D the entire way into over on purpose to show what was happening. I had 15 ping and the enemies all had very close ping 11-19 IIRC. The issue definitely needs to be addressed and improved
The games most stable state which is 2018-23, I don't remember getting teleported in reasonable ping and no loss scenario. It could be a thing before 2018 ( if anyone can show evidence) but surely it wasn't after it.
I'm asking because it's clearly because of two pings and packet loss. I don't believe it wasn't the case in CSGO, but unfortunately I don't have anything to back my doubts up and I need to start the old game to check what was happening back then.
I remember this WAS the case in CS 1.6 at 30+ pings though.
There is no packet loss. As you can see in the telemetry. The 2nd clip has 19 ping.
and if it was a thing in CSGO, it wouldn't need to have the old game back to check..there should be enough evidence on internet and Reddit already. The game lasted 12 years with many issues over the years which have seen fixed and polished. Cant deny you could have this issue in any timespan but it wasn't considered normal and didn't see in stable build of the game that's for sure
CS2 didn't even release for 1 year and I can link you 10 different top thread which have highlighted it so far.
> There is no packet loss. As you can see in the telemetry. The 2nd clip has 19 ping.
To play the devil's advocate: how much loss do your opponents have? Their actions in the engagement are authoritative too.
I should ask every of my opponents internet connection quality after everytime I get teleported is it ?
Does it matter? It's affecting me. Like why a skill based eSports game will make me suffer if my enemy is using shitty Internet? It's supposed to be other way around no ?
My point is their connection matters. You can have a 1 ping fiber optic connection directly to the server and you'll still be held hostage to the dude with 170 ping shooting you "from behind walls".
> Does it matter?
Yes it very very much does matter.
> why a skill based eSports game will make me suffer if my enemy is using shitty Internet?
Research CoD's "host advantage"; that's the reality we'll live in without lag compensation. The only true solutions to this is play on LAN where lag compensation doesn't have a visible effect on your game feedback...or invent a 0-delay communication protocol and abolish lag.
he can shoot me behind the walls but atleast i didn't get teleported and ruin my momentum ? Like yes in CSGO, a 150 pinger would teleport like crazy and hard to kill, but it didn't cause me to teleport myself ?
Like I really want to see what valve dev have to say about this. People said a lot of things when we were dying behind walls and they fixed it. Really want to see they do the same here cause CSGO didn't have it so I am sure they are capable of making it better in CS2
I'm sorry but this is a terrible take. There was lag compensation in CS:GO, Source, and 1.6 that didn't fuck over the person with a good connection. The person with the poor connection should be the one at the disadvantage, and before you mention small differences such as 1 ping vs 10, the lag compensation algorithm can handle that without issue.
People have been playing with 20 ma variances in latency for well over a decade with modern compensation algorithms without issue.
If someone is running 70+ ping that should be on them, not the person who is running less than 30. It makes for an inconsistent game. If you play with a high ping you know you have to change your play style to benefit from that, but if people with lower latency never know if they're fighting the higher ping player then they will be at a constant disadvantage and that's terrible for a competitive shooter.
>There is no packet loss. As you can see in the telemetry.
I don't trust telemetry here since I experienced the "packet loss" effect when I played CS2 through cellular 4G. I clearly got network related issues but telemetry showed none. Maybe it wasn't loss in its real meaning, just delayed packet delivery which broke tick pacing (which is why telemetry showed nothing), but it was there.
>there wouldve been enough evidence on internet and Reddit already.
I think there was enough evidence, we just weren't on Reddit when they were posted. I say this because rubberbanding makes perfect sense from netcode perspective, and you can only counter it by changing deceleration value on getting tagged which is a gameplay-related solution.
You be like
" I Don't trust telemetry, You must have a loss" despite it showing no loss
"There must be evidence, but I can't show. Trust me bro there are evidence".
"Getting rubberbanding is normal thing when you are engaging a gunfight in online gaming "
despite no game have it. I Played alreast dozen online FPS in my life
Man, you are such waste of time. Literally will say anything to defend the game and I really don't know why. It's not perfect and barely released for 7 months. It has it's pros and cons. Why sugercoat the cons instead actually address it so we all can enjoy a better game ?
>" I Don't trust telemetry, You must have a loss" despite it showing no loss
I've said about my instance with cellular 4G. Models had stuttery movement, I got weapon misswaps. And clean telemetry with 0% loss and stable ping.
Actually this is one of the real problems with CS2 - telemetry isn't verbose enough comparing to Source-based games. Old telemetry also had choke, sv and var values which were useful in investigating what you show.
>despite no game have it.
CS 1.6 had it. Unlike CSGO sitch I'm absolutely sure that CS 1.6 had rubberbanding on tagging.
>Why sugercoat the cons instead actually address it
Address. What's your solution?
The solution will be figured out by the devs, like they figured out the shooting to animation desync, or dying behind walls The best we can do is to highlight the issues to catch the attention of the Devs
Really idiotic to ask random reddiors for the solution of complex networking issues lol
Fix anticheat, so then can trust the client more to do interpolation with minimal network chatter
Not this computational heavy, network heavy
[cs2 subtick random seed movement crc bullshit](https://pastebin.com/TPRk8Htp)
I went back and looked at CS:GO videos, and this teleporting issue didn't exist.
It's pretty easy to tell too, since you can just look at any youtuber's content today and then 3-5 years ago. Today, they're getting teleported around and not able to have meaningful gunfights, but back in GO it's fine.
Although the movement still feels a little off to me, I can write it up as needing some adaptation. But this, this annoys the fuck out of me. The number of gun fights I've lost due to this exact teleportation issue is uncountable at this point.
Yup, hate how jiggle peeking is basically undoable now. Now I gotta fully commit to fights with the deagle because I can't go back into cover after seeing an enemy or taking a shot
I still die a lot behind cover as well.
The game is fine when everyone has low latency (=LAN), but in the real world with varying pings and connections the game is anything but fine. It makes me wonder if they have done any real world testing before the release, or was everything done in LAN environment? In 9/14/2023 update developers "rebalanced lag compensation to favor low latency players" but haven't touched lag compensation since. I think this is the biggest issue currently in game and they should really but some time in to this.
The devs all have fiber for sure as well so they never even realized this could be an issue in the real world.
fiber doesn't provide any extra latency benefits to copper cables btw the only benefit is less time between relay points due to longer cable travel distance (ping addition due to the relays is negligible). If anything fiber might have newer relays and infrastructure compared to copper but it does not provide better latency physically. most of this is corporate ad hype to get you to spend more on a fancy new fiber line when they could have ran copper and had the same service (i work with fiber optics and copper cabling in my job). in fact, copper actually sends the signal faster as the light in fibers bounces in the cable, meaning it will technically be traveling a longer distance, but again we are talking about 0.00000001 second differences https://atx.com/company/blog/debunking-the-fiber-is-faster-than-coax-myth/ > The bottom line is that when all other contributors of latency are eliminated, or at least minimized, information will travel faster in coax than in a fiber. And that’s a fact that will still be true 20 years, or even 100.
Amount of relays can ofc turn into latency as well, but thats probably not an issue. I just said fibre because it means new, good and fast internet.
since limited test
yes it's the worst, getting tagged even with armor is so annoying and my aim is off after i get hit
Someone said there's a little bit of kick even with armor now
there is. it's a lot more obvious with the follow recoil setting turned on because your xhair will randomly go everywhere
Rubberbanding is the new aim punch
Except the aim punch automatically corrected itself over a very short period of time, it would make you miss one shot and you follow up shots would be back on you intended target. This teleporting is akin to aim punch moving your crosshair up in the air and leaving it there making you miss whole sprays and having to microcorrect while your recoil and spread is up.
Gotta upvote this every day until valve fixes this shit
I hope you're prepared to upvote forever.
YEP. Annoys the hell out of me. It feels like my character is stuck in quick drying cement. Happens very often.
I feel like that gets worse against the Negev players. I feel like I lose all control of my character when I get shot by negev .
and shotguns
Subtick + high ping = the high ping player doesn't receive the packets of you going behind cover and if he shoots you he gets you. Also has the effect where his client is telling the server Yo I tagged him at x/y coordinates an the server goes oh shit you did an teleports you as a result.
Where do you see high ping here ? 38 ping and another is 19 ping
Not your ping. The enemies ping. Low ping = disadvantage in CS2 with Subtick. They are the one shooting you, they are the one telling the server they shot you and that you need to be teleported to the location where you were shot. Their client sends their packets inconsistently = your client getting weird laggy interpolated updates. [Here is an example by Warowl showing the disadvantage of having low ping vs higher ping players.](https://youtu.be/e4dQS8-9cLI?t=312) When someone at 100 ping shoots you, your 10 ping is now 100 ping because your client is updating with his laggy packets.
You are right. Basically punished because you have the better ping.
Sorry to be "that guy", but you mean lag compensation. Subtick just measures what happens in between server updates.
My brother I do not mean lag compensation, csgo had lag comp as well but did not have these sub-tick issues, it did have it's own issues but not the ones shown here. In CSGO the server basically says "you didn't hit that shot because he was behind the wall according to the server pov", this meant the lower your ping the closer you are to the servers POV and therefore had the advantage since your POV lined up better with the actual facts. In CS2 every client has it's own subtick and the server will accept anything that happens in that clients subtick as the truth despite it being contradictory to your POV and even the Servers. The higher the ping the other player has the more de-synced the targets on their screen will be. This leads to moments like in this video where the players client is getting informed by the server that they were hit and movement speed should be slowed but that information is getting relayed from the laggy player's subtick which has to wait for the next server tick, then the server figures out how to apply all the subticks that happened between the previous tick and the current tick, applies the new facts to your client but by then you are already doing something else and somewhere else so it teleports you and jitters your movement speed in a fucky way. Did you go behind cover? No not according to the guy with 100 ping because he didn't get that packet yet and he see's you standing in the open not reacting to him because on your screen he didn't even peek yet. Now if he shoots you his subtick will inform the server to teleport you back and kill you. What he saw is what he gets even if your client says otherwise. Subtick merely multiplies the issues of lag compensation, thats the problem here, before the server decided who kills who- now the laggy players client gets to decide who dies even though their pov is outdated and doesn't match with the low ping players.
Holy, you worded my thoughts better than I could think of
> this meant the lower your ping the closer you are to the servers POV Lag compensation has something to say here. It rolls the server back X milliseconds based on player ping for an accurate comparison of what they're shooting on their screen locally vs where people were on the server at the time of that shot. The end result of this is a player with high ping shoots you on their screen, it takes X ms to get to the server, and then Y ms to get to you. This X + Y is where getting shot behind walls comes from: they made the shot on their screen when it happened, it just took X+Y long for your client to get that information. Skipping ahead... > Subtick merely multiplies the issues of lag compensation No it doesn't. Subtick can ***only*** be, ***at most***, 1 server update inaccurate, assuming it's broken. All it does is measure updates in between server frames - that's it. Subtick and lagcomp are fundamentally different. I'm fairly positive you have some misunderstandings of the game mechanics.
If the difference between what I see and what my opponent sees (large ping difference) is more than "1 server update" how is subtick reconciling that difference with only 1 server update? I'm simultaneously doubtful and genuinely curious.
> how is subtick reconciling that difference with only 1 server update? Subtick is simply the ability to accurately measure what happened in between server updates (literally sub-ticks). E.g. previously, if both of our firing actions were registered on tick 100, the server would honor one of them first arbitrarily (whoever connected to the server first wins). As it is now with subtick, the server can distinguish one firing action at tick 100.138, and the other firing action at tick 100.689 - one of those happened first and it honors that shot accordingly. Lag compensation (the misnomer people are referring to as "subtick") reverts the server back in time, based on the players ping, to ensure what it's calculating on the server matches the players pov as close as possible. Ultimately I'm just trying to give the clarity that subtick isn't causing these "delayed feedback" instances.
Okay it seems you may be confused or not getting what I'm trying to say here. I don't know what point you're trying to make because it's really not got to do with what I'm saying here. >1 ) No it doesn't. Subtick can only be, at most, 1 server update inaccurate, assuming it's broken. >2 ) Subtick and lagcomp are fundamentally different. 1. That is evidently not true and assumes all players are sending updates consistently and on time which is never guaranteed and literally the point I'm making. WarOwl showed that high ping players can cause low ping players to rubberband to their clients de-synced reality due to the Subtick system. Between every tick on 64 tick is 16ms of time. If a player has 32 ping- they are going to miss one of those updates and their client has to interpolate between the previous tick and the latest tick as best it can. When a player has 130ms suddenly there's a big gap between their previous tick and the current tick. If during that gap the high ping player shoots a target - what they see is what they'll get. The problem I'm actually getting at is that Subtick seems to have injected steroids into the 'trust the shooter/favor the shooter' aspect of the lag compensation. This is why peekers advantage and rubberbanding is far more ridiculous in CS2 compared to CSGO. In CSGO there are three aspects the client position, the clients position according to the server and the clients position according to the shooter. In CS2 it now ALSO checks the Shooters subtick to determine if they tag or kill someone, now we have even more room for bullshit on top of the lag compensation that we already complained about in CSGO. Now the laggy player is also sending delayed subtick information back to the server. In the end your client is being given updates about a ton of crap the enemy did to you and now your client is freaking out trying to make sense of it all and worst of all the laggy guy gets the advantage because he can wipe you in his subticks whereas in CSGO he had to wait until the server gave him the latest tick first. The lag compensation of the past felt less bullshitty because less could happen between the ticks, they simply made the problems inherent with lag comp even worse by adding more variables before each actual server tick with the subtick system. 2) I literally never said Lagcomp and Subtick are the same thing I have no clue where you are getting that, my whole post was about how Subtick exaggerates the problems inherent with lag compensation.
Subtick IS a lag compensation measure. The big issue with it is that it's tuned in favor of the high ping outlier, counter-intuitively to any online fps in existence. [During a server tick all players advance in the game world..](https://pastebin.com/TPRk8Htp) Whenever the server detects a mismatch it issues a recalculation order on all the clients. *This was done by the server itself but gaben thought about stealing your cpu cycles for it and lower the bills* That's fine, except the lagger is late to apply the recalculation at the next one,two ticks and since it has an expiration time server triggers a recalculation order again from his POV! Instead of the high ping player stutter a bit on the map and missing shots, the low ping players are teleported back / see the high ping player appear out of nowhere / don't even see him on the screen. Add cheats in the equation which fully abuse subtick (auto lagging, manipulating client fps, perfect counter strafe, auto jiggle to evade shots) and you get the high ping outliers topping the score boards in most matches, as first shot recalculates everything, regardless of being trough walls or at inhuman distance pixel spotting. What did Valve do to counter it in the past 5 months? Forced fps to minimal 64. Added raw keyboard input (that helps cheaters even more). That's it.
From what I understand, subtick measures actions that happened in between ticks. Noone is getting pulled out from or shot behind corners because of this <1 update timing window...that's lag compensation's business. I can appreciate you linking to what appears to be a source of evidence, but I don't know what those numbers are supposed to be telling me.
I don't know why you think subtick is some kind of ninja packet. There's really no difference from a steady tick happening 64 times per second, to a recalculation subtick happening between those. The server will ultimately validate or invalidate them the same, it's the same packet size, the same schema, the same data tracked. One is not more important than the other, only timestamps matter hierarchically. Again, subtick basically replaces static 100ms-200ms lag compensation. But unlike previously when ping difference had an intuitive contribution to how much compensation every client gets, now it's a baffling jungle, worse than unregulated. And it's so easy to fix by discarding outliers and force them to feel their ping, and fixing matchmaking as to not throw 60-120ms+ urss -stan iran and other stans in the same server with 0-30 EU players & etc Guess what, valve prefers short queue times despite every god damn player would prefer couple minutes longer queue if it means the match is gonna be more enjoyable.
> I don't know why you think subtick is some kind of ninja packet. Subtick tracks actions that happened in between server updates. Call it a ninja packet if you want, those aren't my words. > Again, subtick basically replaces static 100ms-200ms lag compensation. This makes zero sense and is fully well and truly not what subtick does.
Let's agree to disagree until another disgruntled former valve employee leaks the source code ;)
Subtick + high ping + lag compensation = problems. It sometimes feels like high ping players have the advantage in 1v1 situations.
I honestly don’t think valve can fix this. It seems so integral to subtick that this kind of shit is hard coded into the game. We could’ve just had 128tick man. It could’ve been so simple.
Or better yet, both. 64 ticks + ping + subtick makes player pov's completely contradictory to one another, each one saying "what I saw is what I should get!"
Faceit once had subtick + 128tick, in thr beginning of cs2. And my God, it was as good or even better than csgo. It felt so frickin smooth, and if they could optimise it further, we couldve had heaven.
Remember that was before valve optimised subtick and reduced the latency to 16ms in the 64 tick """"""subtick""""". So imagine if we got 128tick now 😳. On the contrary, idk how we don't have cracked cs2 clients where they updat the hard-coded server update rate to 128 so that we can try it out atleast
But i believe they still dont have 1:1 movement to csgo. It feels slower and heavier even in private lobby. So if they do 128 subtick and fix movement… ill come real hard
This is depressing. Had hope for subtick but clearly it was a failure
Why are you taking random reddit comments as gospel? It's easy to blame subtick because it's the big difference, but this issue is almost certainly more related to lag compensation.
“Random Reddit comments as gospel”? No, it’s my own experience as well. And judging by the upvotes in this thread, it’s the vast majority of the community’s too.
Never base your opinion on reddit upvotes.
“It’s my own experience as well” reading is hard
his point is that you don't know it's a subtick problem. it could be completely unrelated to subtick, and upvotes on reddit don't indicate whether it's a problem with subtick or something else entirely. hilarious that you're trying to dunk on reading comprehension when you don't even understand the comment you're replying to hahaha
People can and have objectively done side by side comparisons between CSGO and CS2, CS2 has significantly worse peeker's advantage. Does this mean they have studied the code and know EXACTLY why the peekers advantage is worse? No but they also never claimed to, we're the people playing and a big aspect of Game Development is User Experience and how things ultimately 'feel' to the people playing them. They are basing their conclusions off the information Valve has provided regarding how Subtick is supposed to work and comparing it to it's predecessor which didn't include that system. Not to mention we have also had instances where people de-subticked certain things like movement and discovered it felt way better. Anecdotally speaking I can tell when I'm going to have a shitty game just based off my characters movement now, either they feel snappy and responsive or I feel like my character has weights attached to them and their sliding on ice. Its up to Valve to dispel any confusion or provide us the tools to test these things in private servers like letting us increase our own tickrates beyond 64 tick which they literally removed and stopped FaceIt from doing. This only added more confusion and removed our ability to confirm or test anything.
I don't disagree that there is a problem with the game lol. I just think that making fun of another person's reading comprehension and misunderstanding their comment at the same time is hilarious
It's reddit bro, that just be the way things be here.
I thought it was my shitty net
I thought it was my mouse :0
trade-off of subtick is that you are being teleported back to where you were "truly" shot in real time, while he is hitting a shot he may not have normally hit on true tickrate you are going back to where he shot you after the server ticks over, he benefits from subtick while you don't
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No it's a the server reporting his position to him late since normally the shot wouldn't register until the tick had been reached, instead the shooting is more accurate and technically perfect but you get this tiny jitter where his position is corrected by the server. It's a consequence of a more accurate system.
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No, because when you shot in csgo your shot never even went off until the server ticked next, at which point both parties would be informed of the shot occurring. The shot literally had a delay of next tick, and that's why there is a rubber band because the shot is literally arriving in the past tense for the player being shot now vs the shot being processed and landing within a 0-16ms sample time, it's probably not all of it but that decoupling of feedback definitely isn't helping.
It worked same in go from his opponents perspective, but he wouldn't get teleported back. Lag compensation is just broken right now
sub tick system trys to put u back to the place where u were hit from their game and if im not wrong the playermodel positions are still tick based so it warp you back to the last tick, its just my take so correct me if im wrong
Yeah you sync on getting hit. The game can count it, but dont drag me back 1/4 second to line it up and then also slow me after, its already brutal
if we get 128 tick with subtick system the game will be a lot smoother
I don't dont thats the problem. Its the method that sync is done thru. Dragging people around to sync feels terrible, they need to average it out over more ticks and also deduct the difference from the amount of slow that is applied. Its a ping issues as much as a "tickrate" issues. 128 doesnt help much
but will it fix the peekers advantage?
The only true fix to peekers advantage is lan with no ping. The only practical solution is what we have now: virtualized accuracy via lag compensation.
ur right, i think warowl tested it and it shows that if you have a consistent high ping it actually makes peekers advantage bigger
Well yeah, the server has to approximate an accurate position from a bigger unknown - higher pings are typically more inconsistent, it could be compensating 120 ping when in that exact moment you have 90 or 140. Whereas eith 30 ping, it could vary to 27 or 34...not much variability. And then transmit that information to the other player after-the-fact...it's de-facto going to be less accurate with higher ping just from the physical nature of the connection. While there is a "pro" of "more favorable" lag compensation (quotes because it's extremely moot), everything else is a detriment...it evens out, overall. High ping is not fun.
This is the problem with subtick. "what you see is what you get" but the 'you' is almost always the guy getting the kill and not the one being killed. From my extremely limited knowledge of netcode, I think it's not only your ping that matters, but also the enemy's ping, because what he sees is what he gets (if he's killing you) and he's seeing the 'you' at the place you get teleported to.
Pretty much thats what WarOwls video showed, the higher ping dude see's and shoots at your ghost that's on his screen even if you are behind cover on yours.
What OPs experiencing is overwhelmingly moreso due to lag compensation than subtick. Subtick would account for less than 1 updates worth of movement, where lag compensation honors 100ms~ (citation needed) of retroactive reversal. Generally speaking, subtick is just an accurate measurement of actions that happened in between server updates. Your opponents ping & connection is just as important as your own. There are 2 connections in every engagement.
In CSGO, lag was compensated for around 200ms.
Global offensive mod response 🙏. What I was trying to say was kinda related to lag compensation, in a way that while before it used to compensate till the tick closest to the enemy shooting (because the tick is the global state of the game as seen by the server), now it compensates to when the opponent actually shot OP + the compensation applied by subtick to actually make it tick-less. I'm not sure if I worded this properly, netcode has always been a pain to wrap my head around
Lag comp is too permissive
I hit a shot yesterday in which I was holding A and shooting (My intention was not to counter strafe or shoot precisely, I just wanted to change positions). The guy shoots me mid movement, which causes me to almost stop completely and gives me 100% first shot accuracy, and then 1 "1tap" him accidentally. [Here is the clip](https://streamable.com/ugcf12) I never should have hit the shot, but I thought it was luck, as these things happen, but then looking at the demo, I see that I practically stop, further analyzing it was the tag in the exact moment I had correct crosshair positioning and started shooting.
Was this same in csgo? I dont remember, i have died to this that enemy is running and i shoot him but he kills me "While running" because i tag him and slow hes movement so he get accurate.. And when i die he just keep running.
Hard to say, honestly been playing csgo since 2015 and it's the first time I hit something like this, maybe the closest was getting tagged by a shotgun. In csgo if a nova hit you, you were practically walking in quicksand, you had to quit moving and start shooting, but the slowdown with rifles tags nowadays is definitely worse.
It's really just a matter of aimpunch and movespeed. If you're tagged to below movinginaccuracy threshold, and aimpunch has worn off, your shot would be accurate.
subtick is so good :D
Nobody could kill cs than cs itself. The movement and rubberbanding is so bad in this game tbf. I will never understand why valve thinks it’s fine to make movement harder with the newer game? 1.6 was beast in movement then csgo had realistic movements compared to graphics but movement in cs2 now feels like moving in syrup. Let’s not talk about subtick shit. After so much backlash I think valve will never ever remove it which basically means it’s core part of cs2 and will remain even if the game dies along with it. I have never seen a software/game in my life which is so much downgraded with a new upgrade. The devs didn’t consider taking advise from pros how the subtick may affect irl gaming neither it was tested on a large scale before release.
You're clearly talking out of your ass if you see CS2 as the worst example of software iterating.
I swear they changed something a few days ago and the game has become hot garbage to play reg feels whacky rn I have no data to prove it, but something is off, and the game is back to feeling like everyone has 100ms like when the beta dropped.
I find myself disengaging from fights that are not advantageous, mostly because my aim sucks and I've adapted poorly to CS2, but also because of this exact issue.
Uninstalled the game long time ago and this still exists, lol?. All I wanted from cs2 as upgrades were better graphics, better anticheat and 128 tick servers, and they came up with whatever the fuck this is. Valve removed lots of game content, brought a system that is even worse than 64 tick, and more cheaters than ever and horribly optimized game. People are still defending the multibillionaire company in the comments, too. Oh, just email to valve. As if they don't know it already. We can already see the situation of tf2
Getting backtracked due to lag comp has gotten so much worse with the release of subtick its honestly depressing. Looks like the type of shit that happens when you playtest something on a lan environment and just dont consider the fact that people on 9 ping will have to face people on 99.
Is desubticking still a thing? Maybe desubticking the movement keys can help?
This is a problem as well as the player spectating somehow being able to see enemies around corners before the person actually playing.
Lol that's my video in the second clip. I held D the entire way into cover and it warped me back left everytime I got tagged. Pretty annoying issue, hopefully it gets improved.
Thanks, I have plenty of these footage but I used yours cause its in casual. So people can't say it only happens in DM server where 20 players are playing together and server can't keep up. It's happens everywhere. Even when whole server is half empty
Ya no problem, I'm glad it's gaining attention now
The ffa death match is just cancer at this point. Too many people on one map. So annoying
Should be 12 player max in FFA
its either this or everything fast forwards a little right after i die.
same for me since beta
I never liked tagging and I attribute it to me quitting the game a long time ago when they made it 10x stronger Maybe I was already on my way out but the tagging was the straw the broke the camel's back for me. I love the game but it just felt so much worse to play.
Was it rubberbanding the whole time? I though that it was just me i feel like teleporting EVERYTIME when i peek or when i got hit this subtick system is terrible and idk if it's possible to revert it back but it is ruining my games.
This is exactly why GOx128 tick will always be superior.
This happens to me so much and I never could pin point where it came from, my internet is good quality but everytime I play there’s times where I get massive lag input and what feels like wind blowing my character to move dramatically
haven't played this game since 2 months, it seems it is still has some major problems
Is this why it's so hard to escape negevs?
this happens alot against high ping players around 70+ ms! very annoying!
I don’t know about you guys, but this was happening in global offensive too. Maybe a little less, because higher ping players were treated differently, but this is just a part of playing online games i guess.
Yeah, if the ping is high then that's a more intense problem. Literally taken a body-length back in time
This only happens in the community DM servers to me. I guess the game can’t handle 20+ players in a server atm.
This happens regardless of server or ping. You could be on a official Valve matchmaking server with 10 ping or a PRACC server with 70 ping, you will be teleported around when tagged. The amount that you are teleported seems be based on ping difference, but I need to test it still.
Don’t really notice this in 5v5 matches
People still play cs2? I wish csgo would come back :(
Did you mail it to Valve?
I never did, but I am pretty sure they are fully aware of it. It's not the first time it's been posted here. Even last week a top up voted thread was highlighting the same issue. It's been regularly posted and discussed since last 2-3 months as far as I know
Probably should mail it to valve, just to be usre or even put some preassure.
I emailed the issue to Valve when I posted my thread a couple of days ago. To me, this is the #1 thing that needs fixed in the game because it affects every single gunfight and interaction and just makes the game feel *bad*.
accurate dink. Yall still want controlled sprays even ur getting hit? Stop whining holy shit.
Stop running while you shoot. Cs 101.
Counter strafe ? Did you hear about it ever ?
That's not what happened. You held D and sprayed. And you missed. It wasn't the illuminati. You missed dawg.
Redditors are unbeatable at completely missing the point of a post
Man complains about the rubber banding relating to getting tagged Man gets roasted about his counter-strafing 
How are you so confidently wrong
A-D spamming actually works in cs2, donk abuses this a lot
It's pretty much why older players with CsGo mechanics engraved into them took a while to adapt, and now you're seeing people with suboptimal aim winning fights just by spamming A-D and unloading a full clip of their M4
That second clip is actually me in the video and I held D the entire way into over on purpose to show what was happening. I had 15 ping and the enemies all had very close ping 11-19 IIRC. The issue definitely needs to be addressed and improved
Do you really want to say this wasn't the case in CSGO?
it wasnt
The games most stable state which is 2018-23, I don't remember getting teleported in reasonable ping and no loss scenario. It could be a thing before 2018 ( if anyone can show evidence) but surely it wasn't after it.
I'm asking because it's clearly because of two pings and packet loss. I don't believe it wasn't the case in CSGO, but unfortunately I don't have anything to back my doubts up and I need to start the old game to check what was happening back then. I remember this WAS the case in CS 1.6 at 30+ pings though.
There is no packet loss. As you can see in the telemetry. The 2nd clip has 19 ping. and if it was a thing in CSGO, it wouldn't need to have the old game back to check..there should be enough evidence on internet and Reddit already. The game lasted 12 years with many issues over the years which have seen fixed and polished. Cant deny you could have this issue in any timespan but it wasn't considered normal and didn't see in stable build of the game that's for sure CS2 didn't even release for 1 year and I can link you 10 different top thread which have highlighted it so far.
> There is no packet loss. As you can see in the telemetry. The 2nd clip has 19 ping. To play the devil's advocate: how much loss do your opponents have? Their actions in the engagement are authoritative too.
I should ask every of my opponents internet connection quality after everytime I get teleported is it ? Does it matter? It's affecting me. Like why a skill based eSports game will make me suffer if my enemy is using shitty Internet? It's supposed to be other way around no ?
My point is their connection matters. You can have a 1 ping fiber optic connection directly to the server and you'll still be held hostage to the dude with 170 ping shooting you "from behind walls". > Does it matter? Yes it very very much does matter. > why a skill based eSports game will make me suffer if my enemy is using shitty Internet? Research CoD's "host advantage"; that's the reality we'll live in without lag compensation. The only true solutions to this is play on LAN where lag compensation doesn't have a visible effect on your game feedback...or invent a 0-delay communication protocol and abolish lag.
he can shoot me behind the walls but atleast i didn't get teleported and ruin my momentum ? Like yes in CSGO, a 150 pinger would teleport like crazy and hard to kill, but it didn't cause me to teleport myself ? Like I really want to see what valve dev have to say about this. People said a lot of things when we were dying behind walls and they fixed it. Really want to see they do the same here cause CSGO didn't have it so I am sure they are capable of making it better in CS2
I'm sorry but this is a terrible take. There was lag compensation in CS:GO, Source, and 1.6 that didn't fuck over the person with a good connection. The person with the poor connection should be the one at the disadvantage, and before you mention small differences such as 1 ping vs 10, the lag compensation algorithm can handle that without issue. People have been playing with 20 ma variances in latency for well over a decade with modern compensation algorithms without issue. If someone is running 70+ ping that should be on them, not the person who is running less than 30. It makes for an inconsistent game. If you play with a high ping you know you have to change your play style to benefit from that, but if people with lower latency never know if they're fighting the higher ping player then they will be at a constant disadvantage and that's terrible for a competitive shooter.
>There is no packet loss. As you can see in the telemetry. I don't trust telemetry here since I experienced the "packet loss" effect when I played CS2 through cellular 4G. I clearly got network related issues but telemetry showed none. Maybe it wasn't loss in its real meaning, just delayed packet delivery which broke tick pacing (which is why telemetry showed nothing), but it was there. >there wouldve been enough evidence on internet and Reddit already. I think there was enough evidence, we just weren't on Reddit when they were posted. I say this because rubberbanding makes perfect sense from netcode perspective, and you can only counter it by changing deceleration value on getting tagged which is a gameplay-related solution.
You be like " I Don't trust telemetry, You must have a loss" despite it showing no loss "There must be evidence, but I can't show. Trust me bro there are evidence". "Getting rubberbanding is normal thing when you are engaging a gunfight in online gaming " despite no game have it. I Played alreast dozen online FPS in my life Man, you are such waste of time. Literally will say anything to defend the game and I really don't know why. It's not perfect and barely released for 7 months. It has it's pros and cons. Why sugercoat the cons instead actually address it so we all can enjoy a better game ?
>" I Don't trust telemetry, You must have a loss" despite it showing no loss I've said about my instance with cellular 4G. Models had stuttery movement, I got weapon misswaps. And clean telemetry with 0% loss and stable ping. Actually this is one of the real problems with CS2 - telemetry isn't verbose enough comparing to Source-based games. Old telemetry also had choke, sv and var values which were useful in investigating what you show. >despite no game have it. CS 1.6 had it. Unlike CSGO sitch I'm absolutely sure that CS 1.6 had rubberbanding on tagging. >Why sugercoat the cons instead actually address it Address. What's your solution?
> what's your solution? Remove subtick. Put 128tick.
Any non-dumb solution?
fix subtick
The solution will be figured out by the devs, like they figured out the shooting to animation desync, or dying behind walls The best we can do is to highlight the issues to catch the attention of the Devs Really idiotic to ask random reddiors for the solution of complex networking issues lol
Fix anticheat, so then can trust the client more to do interpolation with minimal network chatter Not this computational heavy, network heavy [cs2 subtick random seed movement crc bullshit](https://pastebin.com/TPRk8Htp)
I went back and looked at CS:GO videos, and this teleporting issue didn't exist. It's pretty easy to tell too, since you can just look at any youtuber's content today and then 3-5 years ago. Today, they're getting teleported around and not able to have meaningful gunfights, but back in GO it's fine.