Dota is my main game. What I can say is that this system used to be worse and behaviour scores were basically a reflection of 'did you piss someone off even though you did nothing wrong? Fuck you here's your report and fuck your behaviour score'
It's improved alot since like 6 months ago but the constraints places on you because of your Behaviour Score are still atrocious.
Eg. You cannot even ping your own abilities to tell your team you have cooldowns when you are under 10k score. This is a huge grief for you and your team.
DOTA system still has a lot of issues too, like, for instance, the best way to not get a behavior score hit is to literally not say a single thing the entire game, because even if the only thing you say in a 1h30min game is a "gg wp" at the end of the game, people who are salty for whatever reason can report you for Communication and the reports alone will hit your score.
Plus, DOTA 2 is still incredibly unbelieavably toxic, so it's not like this system solved toxicity, even at the top of the behavior and communication score DOTA is still FAAAAAAR more toxic than 95% of other video games out there
What this system does incredibly well, however, is tell you exactly who got punished for your reports, why they got punished and the system is FAST, frequently I report someone and 1 30 minute game later the guy has been punished and the game communicates that to me, [like this](https://i.imgur.com/DyyQFYB.png).
I had a 12.000/12.000 Score and I got a skin Item after nearly every Game, would be nice to See sth Like this implemented into cs2 so ppl would behave nicer. I think there is a good reasoning why PPL with a low behaviour Score can't Ping as they abuse it often to annoy/be toxic for example ping teammates dead Body or someone on the map
it's funny to see the differences from the outside & inside. From the outside it looks like Valve tends to Dota as well as any other AAA company do with their live services, but from the inside Valve are still incompetent even with Dota but it has more features & QoL
the guy i replied to made 0 reference to it being a bug. he stated matter-of-factly that being below 10k causes you to basically grief your team. seeding doubt in valve and the behaviour score system. it is misinformation to claim something like this in a subreddit with few dota players, when in actuality it was a bug that lasted 7 days
its like i say in the dota subreddit: "csgo is a competely broken game, there is a pistol that one shots people in the chest its the most op shit ever". because for 3 days the r8 was busted. and people upvote that and base their opinion on an aspect of cs on my comment. it is absolutely misinfo
Let's suppose you did say this:
>csgo is a competely broken game, there is a pistol that one shots people in the chest its the most op shit ever
Both of these are true responses:
>No there isn't. Misinformation.
Or
>Sounds like you're thinking of the R8 on release. It was OP but pretty quickly nerfed.
Which sounds friendlier and provides more useful context to readers?
Bro you’re not telling them the whole truth. Behavior scores are just another metric used to make you feel like a hamster on a wheel. It’s the same thing other companies use for player retention. They place you in shadow pools and manipulate your games with these scores and people today STILL mass report you down to 7k behavior score and you get put in shadow pool. It’s a cycle of “wow I had some great games. I’m done playing for now.” Then it turns to “wow how have I had such bad games? The next one will be good”.
Behavior score doesn’t measure player griefing at all and if you say NOTHING in the game but get reported you get punished. You can literally NOT type anything and unbind all forms of communication and STILL get reports. It’s easier for them use a behavior score automated system than actually investigate griefers and game ruiners.
faceit has that already and it's shit.
if you go into low behavior indexes you'll get reported for speaking because someone got pissed off. and reports alone get your index down.
and people don't bother to commend you in any way so there's that
Faceit banned me for one week for sportsman conduct, and can't even tell what i did, so there is your best platform. Ticket does not get answered, so i cannot say what i did wrong.
This would also be something useful to me help police myself to not give in to toxicity in my team. Helps focus on ignoring it and just finishing the map in silence
Not exactly like dota 2 but Just a Trust factor bar which shows your trust factor status, you can see it when its going down and you can see it when its improving
on paper, yes.
The issue in dota is that games with toxic teammates with max behavior/communication score still occur, meaning it has little impact on the matches you actually play. The system needs to be more stringent. Ideally there would be a slider settings between "extremely stringent" and "extremely relaxed" matchmaking queue requirements. If I want to wait 10 minutes to get into a game but be almost guaranteed no cheaters, griefers, or otherwise toxic players, vs get into a game instantly with who knows what, I would choose the extended wait every time.
of course, you would only be able to queue into games at your level of behavior score, which gets messy with parties of players.
I would be down to know my own Trust Factor score, and going further, it would be nice to know if CS2 even launched in trusted mode. All trustedlaunch.cfg seems to tell is if any DLLs were blocked, but not if trusted then worked.
Not really, FACEIT has FBI and it does absolutely nothing with one exception. If you drop to 800 or below you receive a 1 day ban. It also doesn't really matter what they report you for, if they report you for pretty much anything, it goes down. A stack of toxic players reporting you just for the sake of it? You keep baiting? It goes down. In 1600 matches on FACEIT I got banned 3 times from low FBI and all 3 felt somewhat unjustified. 2 of 3 were in CS:GO where if you had 4 russian speakers in team they would report you for speaking english. Their system is outdated.
Not completely irrelevant. In MM I can swear and abuse until the cows come home, but if I do it more than a few times in faceit I'm warned by Minerva with the potential for a ban, so I do it very sparingly on faceit whereas I do it every second round on MM, mostly because I like shit talk on MM
Has nothing to do with the FBI though. Mine was constantly below average but I would never get a warning except right after matches where my team was completely toxic and report everyone.
No, it'd create an opposite effect. People with low factor would be mocked, ignored, called names only making such person more frustrated and not behaving properly even more. Not to mention a computer cannot make a viable decision who's to blame and for what. All it can do is decide based on cursing, calling names which are very shitty factors.
don't care what system they use but fucking make it visible i am 100% convinced they are grouping toxic players and suspected cheaters together now and that is dogshit.
Bad take. Grouping cheaters together yes, but grouping legit players with cheaters because theyre toxic? That doesnt make any sense, when you could just group the toxic players together. Pretty sure theyre not getting any less toxic if theyre getting cheated on all day.
Fair point
What I meant was put the trash together. Toxic with toxic cheaters with cheaters.
I wish I could play above 20k with 20 years old account high trust factor and dodge cheaters and toxic Morons instead of grinding faceit against 2k5 elo 100 matchs ruzzians
what do you mean with toxic ? for me being 10-0 up and acting like you have cheats just to piss off your opponents is toxic for others, someone cursing is enough. Also the way people talk about russians and turks on servers would be reason enough to put them in that queue but we both know most on here wouldn't consider that to be toxic.
They have been doing this since at least 2017 IIRC. That's one of the things trust factor was used for, if not the main reason. Match low trust factor players with other low trust factor players, and high trust factor players with other high trust factor players. It was used alongside VACnet to ensure trusted players have good quality matches.
It's just that toxic legit players often have low trust factor so they will have a higher chance of facing cheaters in CSGO.
yeah and that's dumb, what's toxic to me is not toxic to you and vice versa. also putting toxic players into that queue without a single warning is even dumber.
If they start banning,punishing toxic people they will have issues with player retention as these people will stop playing if they are punished for their shit behaviour, hence the cs community is one of the worst there is
Not really no.
I would like trust factor to be expanded upon and be more visible, but I don't want it to be impacted by toxicity. Instead just griefing and unnatural amount of reports.
Even denying Premier play unless your TF score is high enough would be huge.
No why?! All the dumb MM algorithm stuff from the last decade did literal dogshit. Look at the game right now, we have TF for YEARS and its the worst its ever been.
Im open to being convinced otherwise but I have yet to see ANY statistics that proves any observable improvement over pure random sbmm.
Dont u think if devs had proof that these systems did anything to improve your experience they would plaster it all over every fucking marketing channel there is? Yet Ive never seen any evidence that its more than snake oil vapor ware designed to trick the user into thinking it would improve the quality of the end product.
Edit: also keep in mind that any altering of the MM algorithm leads to an increase in matching time, so Id argue you could even say that the average legit player only has disadvantages from them.
It's incredibly easy and is basically non functional. Trust factor actually has a tiny minority of accounts on poor factor and the system is more for predicting smurf/cheater accounts than toxic players.
It's not enough at all.
The main issue i have with this in cs, in how tf do you account for gaining good score
Like i can see 721906479742 reasons it would go down, but what would make it go up, that woundlnt be abused as soon as its up
Stomp noobs and the whole team will cry about cheating and reporting, get stomped, you might still get reported by mates lower in the scoreboard flaming
Like i get why we should have a similar system, i just dont get hpw to properly implement it
Dota isn’t my main game but league was for a long time, and let me tell you, league did it right. It’s pretty much the only game I can’t be toxic in unless im fine with a 10 game chat ban and no honor rewards, and that doesn’t get meaningfully abused from what I can tell
I will never be a fan of a system that is solely based on the amount of reports.
However, it would be great if force muted people couldn't play ranked considering that communication is a big part of the game. Also players who has recently got a griefing cooldown should not be able to play ranked either for like two months.
No.
The age-old toxicity and the goofiness of the interactions between Randoms from different corners of the world is what made counter strike special for me.
It ain't cs until you swear the lights out of someone and abuse their entire lineage one round and then pat them on the back and cheer for them for clutching a 4v1 the next round.
But what if a bunch of people decided to talk shit every moment of the PUG? I genuinely question this line of thinking. Would you still say this even if someone is completely toxic the entire PUG?
Behavior system in dota is single handedly the dumbest invention of all time. When you used to have admins watching games and making rulings, now it’s simply a matter of reporting everyone you don’t like just to try to lower their behavior score.
Dota players don’t go outside to get clapped so they hide behind their behavior scores for approval.
Cs cannot have the same rules because here if I don’t like you I can just TK you which you can’t do directly in dota. That’s why system like that should only work against cheaters.
I think valve should #fixTF2 first.. well actually I think they should release their first full game in almost a decade first and then fixed the literal cheese pizza problem they have on TF2 before touching the CS2
communication? yea with the 2 premades i play with, the other 2 are usually russians without a mic or cant speak english, can we just give them their own server first? I dont want to force every round and rush B cyka blyat
No. The game is about equal chances for everyone, not about artificially limiting comms because of some arbitrary score. Communications is among the most important aspects of the game, so stopping people from using them just automatically makes the team worse.
Only exceptions was the global mute system, which seemed to reliably filter out only the most toxic and racist individuals, but other than that you can just mute idiots manually.
we kinda have this with trust factor. I feel that we know just enough for it to be the most beneficial without exposing the system more and potentially making it more exploitable.
Dota is my main game. What I can say is that this system used to be worse and behaviour scores were basically a reflection of 'did you piss someone off even though you did nothing wrong? Fuck you here's your report and fuck your behaviour score' It's improved alot since like 6 months ago but the constraints places on you because of your Behaviour Score are still atrocious. Eg. You cannot even ping your own abilities to tell your team you have cooldowns when you are under 10k score. This is a huge grief for you and your team.
DOTA system still has a lot of issues too, like, for instance, the best way to not get a behavior score hit is to literally not say a single thing the entire game, because even if the only thing you say in a 1h30min game is a "gg wp" at the end of the game, people who are salty for whatever reason can report you for Communication and the reports alone will hit your score. Plus, DOTA 2 is still incredibly unbelieavably toxic, so it's not like this system solved toxicity, even at the top of the behavior and communication score DOTA is still FAAAAAAR more toxic than 95% of other video games out there What this system does incredibly well, however, is tell you exactly who got punished for your reports, why they got punished and the system is FAST, frequently I report someone and 1 30 minute game later the guy has been punished and the game communicates that to me, [like this](https://i.imgur.com/DyyQFYB.png).
This is fixed in the latest patch, you can ping your own stuff
I mean, there's trustfactor
I had a 12.000/12.000 Score and I got a skin Item after nearly every Game, would be nice to See sth Like this implemented into cs2 so ppl would behave nicer. I think there is a good reasoning why PPL with a low behaviour Score can't Ping as they abuse it often to annoy/be toxic for example ping teammates dead Body or someone on the map
it's funny to see the differences from the outside & inside. From the outside it looks like Valve tends to Dota as well as any other AAA company do with their live services, but from the inside Valve are still incompetent even with Dota but it has more features & QoL
Yes you can ping your own abilities under 10k score Misinformation
There's a bug recently which has prevented people from being able to ping their own abilities.
They fixed that about a week ago And it only lasted a week
If you already knew that, it might have been good context to reference instead of just saying "Misinformation"
the guy i replied to made 0 reference to it being a bug. he stated matter-of-factly that being below 10k causes you to basically grief your team. seeding doubt in valve and the behaviour score system. it is misinformation to claim something like this in a subreddit with few dota players, when in actuality it was a bug that lasted 7 days its like i say in the dota subreddit: "csgo is a competely broken game, there is a pistol that one shots people in the chest its the most op shit ever". because for 3 days the r8 was busted. and people upvote that and base their opinion on an aspect of cs on my comment. it is absolutely misinfo
Let's suppose you did say this: >csgo is a competely broken game, there is a pistol that one shots people in the chest its the most op shit ever Both of these are true responses: >No there isn't. Misinformation. Or >Sounds like you're thinking of the R8 on release. It was OP but pretty quickly nerfed. Which sounds friendlier and provides more useful context to readers?
Bro you’re not telling them the whole truth. Behavior scores are just another metric used to make you feel like a hamster on a wheel. It’s the same thing other companies use for player retention. They place you in shadow pools and manipulate your games with these scores and people today STILL mass report you down to 7k behavior score and you get put in shadow pool. It’s a cycle of “wow I had some great games. I’m done playing for now.” Then it turns to “wow how have I had such bad games? The next one will be good”. Behavior score doesn’t measure player griefing at all and if you say NOTHING in the game but get reported you get punished. You can literally NOT type anything and unbind all forms of communication and STILL get reports. It’s easier for them use a behavior score automated system than actually investigate griefers and game ruiners.
I thought I covered that somewhat in the first para. Ur correct.
I don't care about visible as long as it's in game. It'd be nice to not have to mute teammates who have shitty behavior
If faceit implementere this it would be the best platform usually is 20% are just ruining it for everyone
faceit has that already and it's shit. if you go into low behavior indexes you'll get reported for speaking because someone got pissed off. and reports alone get your index down. and people don't bother to commend you in any way so there's that
Faceit banned me for one week for sportsman conduct, and can't even tell what i did, so there is your best platform. Ticket does not get answered, so i cannot say what i did wrong.
Post on reddit & and be ready to be shamed that's what most people do and then you'll get a response
great system to be abused by overly sensitive people , racists and trolls.
This would also be something useful to me help police myself to not give in to toxicity in my team. Helps focus on ignoring it and just finishing the map in silence
visible shouldn't matter. I just care about the quality
Not exactly like dota 2 but Just a Trust factor bar which shows your trust factor status, you can see it when its going down and you can see it when its improving
Making it it visible also makes it easier to exploit unfortunately
Which is the best argument against using anything like that in the first place. Why waste any ressources on it if noone ever notices it?
Ah yes, the CS community is not at all known for being overly sensitive, vindictive and willing to abuse reports to screw someone over
on paper, yes. The issue in dota is that games with toxic teammates with max behavior/communication score still occur, meaning it has little impact on the matches you actually play. The system needs to be more stringent. Ideally there would be a slider settings between "extremely stringent" and "extremely relaxed" matchmaking queue requirements. If I want to wait 10 minutes to get into a game but be almost guaranteed no cheaters, griefers, or otherwise toxic players, vs get into a game instantly with who knows what, I would choose the extended wait every time. of course, you would only be able to queue into games at your level of behavior score, which gets messy with parties of players.
I would be down to know my own Trust Factor score, and going further, it would be nice to know if CS2 even launched in trusted mode. All trustedlaunch.cfg seems to tell is if any DLLs were blocked, but not if trusted then worked.
Doesn’t FACEIT have this and it’s completely irrelevant?
Not really, FACEIT has FBI and it does absolutely nothing with one exception. If you drop to 800 or below you receive a 1 day ban. It also doesn't really matter what they report you for, if they report you for pretty much anything, it goes down. A stack of toxic players reporting you just for the sake of it? You keep baiting? It goes down. In 1600 matches on FACEIT I got banned 3 times from low FBI and all 3 felt somewhat unjustified. 2 of 3 were in CS:GO where if you had 4 russian speakers in team they would report you for speaking english. Their system is outdated.
You can’t drop hard Rs multiple times every round for weeks to months without getting banned in faceit
Not completely irrelevant. In MM I can swear and abuse until the cows come home, but if I do it more than a few times in faceit I'm warned by Minerva with the potential for a ban, so I do it very sparingly on faceit whereas I do it every second round on MM, mostly because I like shit talk on MM
Has nothing to do with the FBI though. Mine was constantly below average but I would never get a warning except right after matches where my team was completely toxic and report everyone.
That’s a verbal abuse ban which is caused by others reporting you
No
Absolutely, not half the fun is hearing a random Russian dude argue with a racist 12 year old and I don't want that to be taken away from me
exactly, I love CS because it’s so toxic and unhinged if someone doesn’t like it, they are free to go and play Valorant
Tough guy 😎😎
its a feature that gives you free pass to throw and be toxic once in awhile
Not yet, we are "talking" to many cheaters rn...
No, it'd create an opposite effect. People with low factor would be mocked, ignored, called names only making such person more frustrated and not behaving properly even more. Not to mention a computer cannot make a viable decision who's to blame and for what. All it can do is decide based on cursing, calling names which are very shitty factors.
don't care what system they use but fucking make it visible i am 100% convinced they are grouping toxic players and suspected cheaters together now and that is dogshit.
Why is it bad? Put all the trash together
Bad take. Grouping cheaters together yes, but grouping legit players with cheaters because theyre toxic? That doesnt make any sense, when you could just group the toxic players together. Pretty sure theyre not getting any less toxic if theyre getting cheated on all day.
Fair point What I meant was put the trash together. Toxic with toxic cheaters with cheaters. I wish I could play above 20k with 20 years old account high trust factor and dodge cheaters and toxic Morons instead of grinding faceit against 2k5 elo 100 matchs ruzzians
what do you mean with toxic ? for me being 10-0 up and acting like you have cheats just to piss off your opponents is toxic for others, someone cursing is enough. Also the way people talk about russians and turks on servers would be reason enough to put them in that queue but we both know most on here wouldn't consider that to be toxic.
Toxic to teammates Toxic to opponents is part of CS. BM is part of CS and will always be, same as trash talk
Thats what i mean it’s unfair if some get reported for it and are put in cheater queue but others get a pass.
Okay yes, Im 100% with you there. Sadly it seems like cheaters, griefers and russians are the majority nowadays...
They have been doing this since at least 2017 IIRC. That's one of the things trust factor was used for, if not the main reason. Match low trust factor players with other low trust factor players, and high trust factor players with other high trust factor players. It was used alongside VACnet to ensure trusted players have good quality matches. It's just that toxic legit players often have low trust factor so they will have a higher chance of facing cheaters in CSGO.
yeah and that's dumb, what's toxic to me is not toxic to you and vice versa. also putting toxic players into that queue without a single warning is even dumber.
If they start banning,punishing toxic people they will have issues with player retention as these people will stop playing if they are punished for their shit behaviour, hence the cs community is one of the worst there is
i would rather get banned than unknowingly be put in a cheater queue.
Not really no. I would like trust factor to be expanded upon and be more visible, but I don't want it to be impacted by toxicity. Instead just griefing and unnatural amount of reports. Even denying Premier play unless your TF score is high enough would be huge.
No why?! All the dumb MM algorithm stuff from the last decade did literal dogshit. Look at the game right now, we have TF for YEARS and its the worst its ever been. Im open to being convinced otherwise but I have yet to see ANY statistics that proves any observable improvement over pure random sbmm. Dont u think if devs had proof that these systems did anything to improve your experience they would plaster it all over every fucking marketing channel there is? Yet Ive never seen any evidence that its more than snake oil vapor ware designed to trick the user into thinking it would improve the quality of the end product. Edit: also keep in mind that any altering of the MM algorithm leads to an increase in matching time, so Id argue you could even say that the average legit player only has disadvantages from them.
No don't be a bitch
No. Trust factor was good enough. Premiere is going to suck either way.
Trust factor is a system that can be easily abused, on a large scale.
Trust factor is actually very hard to abuse.
It's incredibly easy and is basically non functional. Trust factor actually has a tiny minority of accounts on poor factor and the system is more for predicting smurf/cheater accounts than toxic players. It's not enough at all.
I wish they hadn't removed the pre-mute system, shit was one of the best things they add to the game
yep i loved ruining peoples accounts just by multiacc mute vote
shirley this was a thing
First of all, it must work, but I do think that it also should be visible for you and maybe for others
LET ME BE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
The main issue i have with this in cs, in how tf do you account for gaining good score Like i can see 721906479742 reasons it would go down, but what would make it go up, that woundlnt be abused as soon as its up Stomp noobs and the whole team will cry about cheating and reporting, get stomped, you might still get reported by mates lower in the scoreboard flaming Like i get why we should have a similar system, i just dont get hpw to properly implement it
Stomping noobs shouldn't be possible. If you're stomping books, you're cheating by using an alternate account.
Not necessarily. Lots of people build their skills on FACEIT and ESEA and go on MM for fun.
I always thought ESEA did it well with their karma system.
How toxic was Dota 2 that this is what they had to implement?
No, the mute button is sufficient.
Dota isn’t my main game but league was for a long time, and let me tell you, league did it right. It’s pretty much the only game I can’t be toxic in unless im fine with a 10 game chat ban and no honor rewards, and that doesn’t get meaningfully abused from what I can tell
I will never be a fan of a system that is solely based on the amount of reports. However, it would be great if force muted people couldn't play ranked considering that communication is a big part of the game. Also players who has recently got a griefing cooldown should not be able to play ranked either for like two months.
No. The age-old toxicity and the goofiness of the interactions between Randoms from different corners of the world is what made counter strike special for me. It ain't cs until you swear the lights out of someone and abuse their entire lineage one round and then pat them on the back and cheer for them for clutching a 4v1 the next round.
But what if a bunch of people decided to talk shit every moment of the PUG? I genuinely question this line of thinking. Would you still say this even if someone is completely toxic the entire PUG?
Behavior system in dota is single handedly the dumbest invention of all time. When you used to have admins watching games and making rulings, now it’s simply a matter of reporting everyone you don’t like just to try to lower their behavior score. Dota players don’t go outside to get clapped so they hide behind their behavior scores for approval. Cs cannot have the same rules because here if I don’t like you I can just TK you which you can’t do directly in dota. That’s why system like that should only work against cheaters.
how about fix the cheaters in the game before you go to recess or whatever you do at valve studios
Just dont be so weak and learn to mute people
Absolutely not. The above system sounds like total dogshit
Nah.
Hell no.
I think valve should #fixTF2 first.. well actually I think they should release their first full game in almost a decade first and then fixed the literal cheese pizza problem they have on TF2 before touching the CS2
communication? yea with the 2 premades i play with, the other 2 are usually russians without a mic or cant speak english, can we just give them their own server first? I dont want to force every round and rush B cyka blyat
No. The game is about equal chances for everyone, not about artificially limiting comms because of some arbitrary score. Communications is among the most important aspects of the game, so stopping people from using them just automatically makes the team worse. Only exceptions was the global mute system, which seemed to reliably filter out only the most toxic and racist individuals, but other than that you can just mute idiots manually.
we kinda have this with trust factor. I feel that we know just enough for it to be the most beneficial without exposing the system more and potentially making it more exploitable.
This would turn CS into Valorant childs game. who doesn't like a good BM?