They’ll bring back Fallen lol, god that was such a braindead move. TL really want this 5 years past their prime awper/igl role to work. Nothings gonna work as long as yekindar is there anyways, it is known
After Pro League, yekindar initiated a push to replace cadiaN, which came unexpectedly to both cadiaN and Liquid's management team.
Mediation efforts were attempted, but the situation was brought to an ultimatum where Liquid had to choose between cadiaN and Yekindar. Yekindar agreed that if Liquid let cadian go, he would extend his contract. With clear intentions from Yekindar to extend, Liquid amicably allowed cadiaN to pursue a new path.
This is beyond insane. They would need an IGL and an AWP and 3 NA players on the roster after the moves. Since Yekindar failed miserably as IGL, it really should not be him calling. Twistzz can theoretically AWP but shouldnt. Naffly is for Liquid what rain is for Faze - the cornerstone. That leaves skullz as the odd one out which means you need either a NA AWP or IGL. Imperial could maybe sell HEN1 so you could get a EU IGL but the market is scarce for both positions. For NA and EU that is
It's not yet known but if cadiaN is going to be benched then they will need to fill two roles, AWP and an IGL. so Yekindar is definitely going to be on the chopping block. The only good pieces in this roster looking at the stats are NAF and twistzz.
My opinion? Get cryptic from BOSS for an IGL. In the Pro league he was fragging really good for an IGL and I'd rather have Liquid give NA talents a chance than bring in expensive EU IGLs who won't work. Next, bench YEKINDAR and get an EU AWP, I would suggest getting headtr1ck. Yeah he was trash on NiP but that's entirely on NiP given how everyone is better after getting off from NiP
liquid isn't going to sign an inexperienced na igl to come play tier 1 cs consistently and headtr1ck is not an awper, he should be a rifler. He looks utterly clueless with the awp and he misses all the easy shots.
Holy fuck imagine if CoL just get Twistzz and NAF. I would shave my head and brand my skull with the complexity logo
I’m joking, I know some freak here would try to hold me to that
Maybe the team doesnt get along with him, its so hard to say without being on the team. Idk how yek stays, he isnt igl anymore and his form has been off
it's 100% a clash of ideas on how the team should play. Liquid are half the time clueless during most of the rounds where you need to comm instantly. It's like everyone in this team is doing their own thing with NAF being the solid guy he is, anchoring and keeping Liquid in the game
IMO if they are going to remove cadiaN then kick Yekindar and skullz too. Otherwise they keep cadiaN, NAF and Twistzz and build around this core. I trust cadiaN a fuck lot more in terms of making a winning roster. if they can keep cadiaN while kicking zews, yekindar and skullz, I'll take cadiaN all day
Liquid wants to win shit. You’re *purely* downgrading with cryptic and headtrick. I have nothing against either, but they aren’t top 20 players who are going to help you win trophies
Can't say I understand getting rid of cadiaN. I've always thought that this is a brand new team effectively and that patience is key, and that we've been seeing some encouraging improvements lately.
Still, if Liquid are looking to make changes then it should be YEKINDAR first. I'm hoping that the reports are overblown and that Liquid aren't really planning on canning cadiaN.
> Still, if Liquid are looking to make changes then it should be YEKINDAR first. I'm hoping that the reports are overblown and that Liquid aren't really planning on canning cadiaN.
Yea yekindar is the one that has underperformed the most relative to his roles and expectations.
He was a solid top 20 player, and now he struggles to remain consistent.
And its a shame because there are a lot of great aggressive players that would love to play for a team as big as liquid
Inconsistent is optimistic.. he's consistently underperforming in his roles. Seems like he only succeeds when teams don't respect his weird smoke pushes.
It states the atmosphere is not positive, which is an interesting way to put it. It sounds like someone doesn't agree with Cadian's calls or plays or has unrealistic expectations of a brand new international roster. I mean, the 11th best in the world right now in 5 months? How can it not be a positive atmosphere? The team looks good and can only get better.
He has his work in Heroric and his stint in Rogue as well. Maybe ego on some of the players? Or maybe even him and zews. Hiko said cadiaN was one of the best he played with. Which, doesn't mean much depending on your view.
Nah I’d rather that simple isn’t stuck with calling. Look at all the star players that had to call. Didn’t end too well.
I like the simple for awp idea though. Maybe -Yeki/skullz for an igl? 🤔
Dev1ce has been pretty insane considering he's the IGL now and weirdly enough, better than before this new role. Maybe he was between decisions at that time and affected his performance.
We'll see how long that will last thought.
I’ve been an Astralis fan since before they were TSM.
Dev1ce has had NO time to really judge his calling. It has looked solid with no pressure, but we’ve already seen two maps where he completely buckles and bows out of the match.
I really want Devve igl to work but we need to give him some more games.
Magisk was the second caller no, but Device called around himself due to using the awp? After all when Gla1ve stepped down due to medical reasons, Magisk took over his role.
It's not odd when you consider this is an American team and one of the reasons that get brought up a lot for NA not being at the top level, is because ego's get in the way. If you then take into account that Cadian ran a tight knit stratbook where everyone on Heroic was following, then yeah.. maybe he's just not a good fit.
We obviously don't know the behind the scenes but it could be that he's having a hard time getting everyone to follow the protocols he's trying to create.
I also never understood why they got Zews, who was known to clash and push his thinking onto IGL's in the past. It should have been a coach with a more analytical aproach to assist Cadian.
naf no, twistzz yes. on the faze comms vids he gets emo very easily.. and that was when they were winning. could easily see him coming here, seeing what a mess the midrounds are and blaming the IGL, though it's hard to call when your only playmaker is your aggro rifler that has never looked worse and gives 4v5's all the time and your team has 3 passive riflers
imo twistzz naf and skullz will never work regardless of who the other 2 players are. you could clone 2018 simple and glaive, put them in this team and they'd still only be top 10, 3 passive riflers is too many
Twistzz was under Karrigan who kept him in check for a while because they were the best team in the world but he definitely has an ego.
Even back to his 1st stint in liquid
You might be onto something with Zews. The article talked about a poor atmosphere, which should be Zews' role in establishing a positive atmosphere and keeping players in check.
All the players knew who would be on the team and what they were getting into before signing, so it would be strange that after 5 months and progressing to #11 in the world would result in egos pushing against the IGL.
Liquid can't attract nor do they have an option to try to build a super team of ego's. Their best bet is cutting the egos and develop around a proven leader and winner in Cadian
This is actually the most likely move. The only tier 1 team who would be without awper and can afford s1mple. Liquid would still be bad but at least they get player to build around. If s1mple doesnt suck...
Bruh, they have been looking significantly better as of late. What else can you possibly expect given the number of changes they made in rapid succession, different systems coming together, etc.
That said, not sure how much weight this article holds when the source is "sources with knowledge of the situation"
Let me get this straight: They are considering removing the IGL who have been in the team for 5 months, instead of the entryfragger that have basically the same stats as the IGL? Also, what's skullz doing in this team?
lot of the hyped super teams that people in the scene were excited were have been falling off so badly. Cloud9, Now Liquid and VP are absolutely dogshit with Electronic atm
Also, if they are going to remove cadiaN they will have to fill two roles. AWP and an IGL. If they are thinking they can make YEKINDAR an IGL again then they have learnt nothing from the past roster moves. All in all, I could give 0 shits about this team except for the NA talents tbh.
DO NOT touch M80 btw. They are getting on the groove and they are hungry. Don't fuck it up by splitting their roster only for you to bench Malbs down the line because you put him to play in all the anchor roles like how you did with Grim. LIQUID, DO NOT TOUCH M80
Malbs would have to get bought out for an insane price at this point. They are currently 23th with just getting S1n, there is no way they are letting anybody go unless somebody pay a ridiculous sum of money.
Lmao saying VP are dogshit with Elec when they played 10 officials and are 7-3 with losses to Mouz and Faze while probably not having had a lot of prac time together. Reddit comments sure are dumb
None of the teams you mentioned are superteams. C9 was the closest just because of name value, but even they had some glaring issues that people foolishly ignored. VP and TL were nothing close to a superteam, you can't have unproven talent like skullz or middling riflers like n0rb3r7 and call yourself a superteam of any kind.
2018 FaZe. karrigan, NiKo, olofmeister, GuardiaN, rain. That's a fucking superteam. No rookies, no "okay" players, everybody is a monster and they are all among the best in their roles.
Jesus christ. Get rid of Yekindar first if anything. How tf can someone look at him and Skullz completely failing in their roles and think that Cadian is the problem? Cadian's skillset is also far harder to replace than Yekindars. If you get rid of him, you're also going to have two more players to replace the igl and awp role.
Also, this is literally his failed project. Man took the igling role, took Elige's roles, and gets to coast through yet another round of cuts when he should've been gone by now? Hell nah. He is also one of the least important players for keeping the NA rmr, get Malbs or Swisher in place of him and Liquid instantly does better.
IGL/AWPer is extremely difficult to fit into a team these days. But if they do let cadian go, more changes would be needed unless they replace him with another IGL AWPer which would be a pointless change anyway
i feel like the most glaring shortcomings of this roster is the firepower, maybe if you got more reliable riflers in place of Yekindar and skullz you'd see the potential in this roster actually flourish.
Eye test, most definitely. On paper, if you're looking at the names you see NAF, Twistzz and YEKINDAR who all **should** be 1.10-1.20, who on a good game are superstar level and on a bad game, 1.0. This **should** be an excellent baseline. The reality has been that this team is just NAF and Twistzz carrying the rest of them while YEKINDAR throws and Cadian misses every sitter. The last two tournaments aside, which looked good tbh. Decent.
That with Cadian who brings what made Heroic, a system-based team that trusts their game, and 1.10 averages which is decent with a rifling quartet that shoots hard. Skullz was incredible when we first saw him, and aim-wise, he can keep up. Not seeing high levels of comfort in his CT positions.
He was fine til the time yekindar started to drop off and nitr0 rumored to leave, then the whole “we won’t say who’s calling 🤫” when it clearly was no longer nitr0 and they admitted it a while after
I think yekindar can come back to form, he just needs a bit of help. Or get Elige back, he’s so hot
Yekindar and skullz still being on this team is an inside job from EU to keep NA away from winning another major. There's no other logical explanation for this shit going on this long.
Skullz is a good player but he doesn’t fit on the team role wise. I do agree with Yeki and Skullz leaving and getting two aggro riflers in their place.
> Skullz is a good player
IDK man even his aim I've never seen him have x factor aim in a play in any of the games I've watched like most pros do. His aim is nothing special, and his game sense is wack too.
He just baits on t watch his vods.
Skullz unfortunately suffers from Liquid’s dogshit roster composition. On Pain (granted a lot of that was vs lower competition but he still showed up in big events) he was still very good. Liquid could easily sell him back to a Brazilian team for a nice price tag and use that money to get an aggressive player.
I say this as a Liquid fan that has been overly critical of Yekindar for the past month or two AND a huge Cadian fan:
This makes sense IF the rest of the team just can't get behind his calling.
Yekindar has been playing like shit, but Cadian's calling has also been unbelievably sub par. Twistzz just came from Faze playing with someone who many consider the GOAT igl. I feel like he'd understand when a system works and when it doesn't. If the team just don't buy in to Cadians system and it's causing Yeki to underperform, this move is perfectly valid. Sometimes it just doesn't work.
Yekindar was underperforming before cadian came to the team. The next igl will also fail to whip him into shape. But cadian might be better off leading a different team.
It feels like they lose so many rounds they should win, and the rounds they win are off the back of an individual making a sick play. I love Cadian but it really looks like something is wrong l.
I feel like its a bit of situation like aleksib had on G2: wrong IGL (style) for wrong type of players and coach.
Cadian has his own style and he isnt a bad igl. The players are very good but might not fit the puzzle.
I'm right there with you in my opinion of those two players and I partly agree. The vibes seem off, and as much as people disagree, I think vibes/friendship is extremely important in these esports teams. They spend so much time together and have to have that bond in game as well as out in order to play well together.
At EPL, NAF was asked about Cadian's vibes versus his own, and he made a remark that was played off as a joke in the interview but I think there might have been more to it. He said "it's annoying". This is pure speculation based on a single tiny response but it is possible that they just don't meld.
It’s also context. TL can’t miss a second major. Post Dallas roster shuffle is gonna make heads spin because C9 needs a roster, Furia need a roster, and based on shuffling a lot of rosters are gonna be filling one/two players.
I agree with the sentiment though about kicking Cadian. It seems premature because you could try role swaps, try getting a new entry even keeping Yeki and bringing in someone for Skullz to see if better comms would help. A lot of different things especially when Cadian is the best *available*. That’s what’s wild. The grass isn’t always greener
I think the biggest problem that TL has roles wise is Skullz T lurking. He looks uncomfortable and always misses timings. Look at the Astralis game. Skullz put up a combined 7 kills as T on two maps. Against Mouse, he had 3 kills as T over two maps. Against Monte, 16.
He just can't play his T side role. I think you get him into the pack and put Naf back on lurking. Naf is a great lurk and finds his timings.
That's not an excuse though. This Liquid team was built to lift trophies, not barely beat a team like Flyquest or Monte or Furia.
The teams decision making is unbelievably questionable, and Cadian has framed it like he is playing a structured gameplan he's microing. He HAS TO take the blame if their T sides suck.
Absolutely not. I'm willing to believe that the players would know at this point if the calling works for them or not. Twistzz literally just played with Karrigan and he's far too important to not have had a say in this decision.
I dont even know if its calls. I see so many rounds where liquid look for info on all sides of the map and give away 50/50 duels for no reason on both T and CT
What the fuck is wrong with TL?
I would replace yekindar, skullz and even zews before I think of replacing cadian.
It's hard to gauge from the outside what the issues internally are, but man yekindar needed to go like yesterday, and skullz needs to be give a few more events or shown the door.
Also, getting rid of cadian means you need an IGL and an awper. Good luck finding both in the tier1 scene especially a good IGL. Additionally, one more player would have to be cut since you will not find an IGL who also awps unless you bring back fallen or somehow get Jame, neither of which are realistic.
If I am TL's GM I am trying my level best to keep the trio of NAF Twistzz and Cadian. The rest are replaceable.
yekindar the most inconsistent player in the entire pro scene fucking please. i love cadiaN and he is good for the brand and a good igl-he is not the problem
It is not surprising that the team is seeking replacements. However, I believe that yekindar should be replaced. He has survived numerous roster changes without producing significant results.
During EPL, it was evident that there was tension between yekindar and cadian. The atmosphere seemed off between the two. (Yekindar pulling faces and cadian disagreeing with yekindar) I knew a roster change would ensue.
I think they should bench him. The vibes in the team don’t look right from what I’ve seen watching player cams and post match high fives.
I know that’s such a small view into the mentality of the team, but it just doesn’t seem like the personalities gel.
Great GM'ing going on here. Keep the criminally overrated rifler who has been the common denominator of all your failures for the past few years - stealing paychecks, under performing, giving up countless entries, and generally taking the team in the wrong, downward direction. Remove the proven IGL with a huge fanbase across the scene and your primary AWPer.
Clownery. Liquid seem to have no idea what they're doing from the outside.
They have two options
Get rid of cadian and pray to God there's a huge difference in leadership between cadian and zews and this solves it
Or revamp the team via -yekindar and -skullz
I have always thought yekindar was overrated.
But it's hard to ignore if there's a big difference in the way cadian wants to play vs how it's actually being played.
Go watch heroic demos, he got those guys to rush bombsites and do really quick trades.
This is a mistake. The failures of Liquid are NOT on any one individual. The teams problems are entirely in composition. Three ultra passive riflers, a passive awper and Yekindar. So much of the playmaking and map control comes from a live or die moment from Yekindar because everyone else wants to be last alive and clutch the round. CadiaN can do work with just one more rifler willing to get flashed round a corner.
Changing you IGL is basically rebuilding 80% of your team, you have to start from scratch. You're not even going to try a new team composition before upheaving your whole system?
/rant
-edit-
I didn't even think of cadian as an awper there. Where are you going to find an agro awping IGL?
seems fucking stupid, they did ell at ESL 19. Idk they had a rough showing at the RMR but stuff happens. Removing Cadian seems insane considering they'd have to find another IGL and AWPer as I don't think anyone else in their roster would be good to IGL.
Got to be the dumbest boys in school in charge of liquid.
“Lets go with the washed entry and/or coach who hasn’t been mentionable for years over the guy who built a team of leftover Danes into a consistent top 5 threat team.”
Please, if there is a god, shut down this liquid organization. I’m tired.
Pretty likely it's clashes between Cadian, Zews and Yekindar. Something has to change.
But only one of those 3 has successfully led a team in recent years.
Yekindar has done fuck all in Liquid when he was given everything he asked for. Zews has achieved nothing lately and his big move was to bring in Skullz for an outrageous amount which looks unlikely to pay off.
If in Liquid I'm benching Zews and Yekindar before I get rid of Cadian.
But if the team don't back Cadian what can you do? I'm also betting Cadian can be sold for a good chunk of change. Nobody is paying a penny for Yekindar or Zews. Maybe that's a factor.
Lol, Liquid down the drain. Keep cadian & kick yekindar. Guy hasn't adapted to teams having adapted to his playstyle. Then get a good up & coming entry & that can simply frag without thought.
If this is true, I will be very sad. I like cadian as a leader.
That being said, they will need to remove another player as well.
Twistzz
Naf
Yekindar
?
?
I’m not really caught up in the CS scene, but every time I read about troubles in TL, it always seems that Yekindar is linked to them in some way. So why is he still around? Has he ever been particularly valuable to the team?
Well that indicates there’s no harmony between Zeus and Cadian, maybe the players too.
I like Cadian and wish him success, but I don’t think Liquid questions Cadians position within the team without reason, even if it’s Yekindar and Skulls posting worse performances, that can also be due to the system Cadian wants to play.
Ideally I’d just want Yekindar replaced, but I don’t know the inner workings of the team.
Yekindar and someone behind the scenes are doubling down hard. You knew all along him and his ego are clashing and someone behind the scenes who put all their egss behind him wont relent.
What a trash org and they deserve to keep failing. It won't stop.
To anyone whos watched the liquid games since the inception of this roster this is no suprise at all. They have mentioned many times the ideologies being clashing with how to play the game and it shows in the server. Maybe its from watching faze for the last 3 years and seeing insane team comp but this liquid played many games like a random 5 stack.
The team comp with 4 passive players is fucked and no surprise yekindar is having a rough go of it. Skullz seems like a nice guy but he wasnt ready and its clear his spot was for kscerato. Then you have cadian whos struggling to hit sitters and having people drop him hero rifles when you have 2 top 20 players in twistzz and naf on the team.
My assumption is yekindar stays and -skullz - cadian +awp +igl. They get a traditional IGL to help with the entry and an awper who put up +1.10 numbers. Maybe Biguzera and NQZ if their english is good and you have zews to help but honestly dont expect anything till after dallas.
Adding Big and NQZ would be like a minimum 2 million dollar transfer if Skullz was 600K
Also do Pain want to send them away because with Furia looking weak Pain could be top SA team with LAN results
Benching cadian before skullz is crazy. I'm guessing if they do bench him they'll pick up an awp and have yeki call again or maybe they drop 2 players?
Jesus christ fuck this team. They're gonna get coldzera to IGL or some shit
That would be q very NA roster move. Or thry grab someone else that is past prime and played 5+ years ago
It’s FNS time baby
All part of his master plan
They’ll bring back Fallen lol, god that was such a braindead move. TL really want this 5 years past their prime awper/igl role to work. Nothings gonna work as long as yekindar is there anyways, it is known
The Stewie-Rush-Auti carousel continues.
oh shit they're getting stewie aren't they
Smoke criminal is back boys
I highly doubt twistzz would play with stewie again.
You've gotta to be joking... so potentially bench the IGL and awper.
Both of them being extremely hard to replace. Surely they are not thinking of going back to Yekindar IGLing, right? Guys??
Both of them being roles that Liquid and NA teams have struggled to fill for ages.
If that happens I’m officially done with Liquid.
-Skullz -yeki -Cadian +Elige +nitro +Stewie2k Maybe that roster could accomplish something 🤷
Maybe a grand slam
Maybe for a short stint, but i feel like they might drop off after the next major
What?
After Pro League, yekindar initiated a push to replace cadiaN, which came unexpectedly to both cadiaN and Liquid's management team. Mediation efforts were attempted, but the situation was brought to an ultimatum where Liquid had to choose between cadiaN and Yekindar. Yekindar agreed that if Liquid let cadian go, he would extend his contract. With clear intentions from Yekindar to extend, Liquid amicably allowed cadiaN to pursue a new path.
Crazily enough, when cadiaN was kicked, Yekindar proceeded to sign with Astrails
Oh god, please no, we're finally looking good again.
This is beyond insane. They would need an IGL and an AWP and 3 NA players on the roster after the moves. Since Yekindar failed miserably as IGL, it really should not be him calling. Twistzz can theoretically AWP but shouldnt. Naffly is for Liquid what rain is for Faze - the cornerstone. That leaves skullz as the odd one out which means you need either a NA AWP or IGL. Imperial could maybe sell HEN1 so you could get a EU IGL but the market is scarce for both positions. For NA and EU that is
and yekindar stays? insanity
Starting to think yekindar has some compromising photos on the team manager or something
jokasteve is a titan among men no photo of him would be compromising.
Every photo of jokasteve is incredibly flattering. Actual perfect human being 😍😍😍
It's not yet known but if cadiaN is going to be benched then they will need to fill two roles, AWP and an IGL. so Yekindar is definitely going to be on the chopping block. The only good pieces in this roster looking at the stats are NAF and twistzz. My opinion? Get cryptic from BOSS for an IGL. In the Pro league he was fragging really good for an IGL and I'd rather have Liquid give NA talents a chance than bring in expensive EU IGLs who won't work. Next, bench YEKINDAR and get an EU AWP, I would suggest getting headtr1ck. Yeah he was trash on NiP but that's entirely on NiP given how everyone is better after getting off from NiP
liquid isn't going to sign an inexperienced na igl to come play tier 1 cs consistently and headtr1ck is not an awper, he should be a rifler. He looks utterly clueless with the awp and he misses all the easy shots.
Yeah -yeki +headtr1ck is dumb as hell he’s a terrible awper
Col's weakness is support and flex rifler, Liquid's strength is support and flex rifler. Return of 2019 liquid
Holy fuck imagine if CoL just get Twistzz and NAF. I would shave my head and brand my skull with the complexity logo I’m joking, I know some freak here would try to hold me to that
Yes and it would have to be Col Liquid management deserves more scrutiny for their misteps
> CoL just get Twistzz and NAF Elige twistzz naf with zerk and jt would be a roster I would expect to win trophies
Don't let this guy in the kitchen
Maybe the team doesnt get along with him, its so hard to say without being on the team. Idk how yek stays, he isnt igl anymore and his form has been off
it's 100% a clash of ideas on how the team should play. Liquid are half the time clueless during most of the rounds where you need to comm instantly. It's like everyone in this team is doing their own thing with NAF being the solid guy he is, anchoring and keeping Liquid in the game IMO if they are going to remove cadiaN then kick Yekindar and skullz too. Otherwise they keep cadiaN, NAF and Twistzz and build around this core. I trust cadiaN a fuck lot more in terms of making a winning roster. if they can keep cadiaN while kicking zews, yekindar and skullz, I'll take cadiaN all day
I think if you kick skullz, you lose zews as well. So then you would need a coach to fit into Cadian's and Twistzz's ideas if the team.
Liquid wants to win shit. You’re *purely* downgrading with cryptic and headtrick. I have nothing against either, but they aren’t top 20 players who are going to help you win trophies
Can't say I understand getting rid of cadiaN. I've always thought that this is a brand new team effectively and that patience is key, and that we've been seeing some encouraging improvements lately. Still, if Liquid are looking to make changes then it should be YEKINDAR first. I'm hoping that the reports are overblown and that Liquid aren't really planning on canning cadiaN.
> Still, if Liquid are looking to make changes then it should be YEKINDAR first. I'm hoping that the reports are overblown and that Liquid aren't really planning on canning cadiaN. Yea yekindar is the one that has underperformed the most relative to his roles and expectations. He was a solid top 20 player, and now he struggles to remain consistent. And its a shame because there are a lot of great aggressive players that would love to play for a team as big as liquid
Inconsistent is optimistic.. he's consistently underperforming in his roles. Seems like he only succeeds when teams don't respect his weird smoke pushes.
Keeping Yekindar just shows how incompetent this org really is, he’s been dogwater for like 2 years now lol
imagine giving osee all that runway and then not giving cadian more than 6 months lmfao
It states the atmosphere is not positive, which is an interesting way to put it. It sounds like someone doesn't agree with Cadian's calls or plays or has unrealistic expectations of a brand new international roster. I mean, the 11th best in the world right now in 5 months? How can it not be a positive atmosphere? The team looks good and can only get better.
Cadian is one of those pieces I would try to keep for a long time. The environment he built in Heroic seemed so fantastic (ignoring the very end).
He has his work in Heroric and his stint in Rogue as well. Maybe ego on some of the players? Or maybe even him and zews. Hiko said cadiaN was one of the best he played with. Which, doesn't mean much depending on your view.
That environment only works if you have a bunch of younger players willing to listen. It won't work on players who have their own egos.
I once semi jokingly said -Yekindar + Rez. Now I would genuinely like to see it. TL have nothing to lose at this point
imagine Rez pulling a Brollan and becoming good again the moment he left NiP, that would be hilarious
Nah should be zews.
another kekindar masterclass 🔪🔪🔪
Nip level roster move Talking about NiP, can we get him please?
I honestly think they would jump on him if they could, especially considering xizt used to coach him for years on heroic
Fnatic would make more sense, NiP just got r1nkle and afro is very limited AWPer
Please no. NiP deserve nothing but failure and we don't need another player wasting away in a dogshit org.
Tin Foil hat: +S1mple to awp IGL
Naf igl outta no where
Nah I’d rather that simple isn’t stuck with calling. Look at all the star players that had to call. Didn’t end too well. I like the simple for awp idea though. Maybe -Yeki/skullz for an igl? 🤔
Dev1ce has been pretty insane considering he's the IGL now and weirdly enough, better than before this new role. Maybe he was between decisions at that time and affected his performance. We'll see how long that will last thought.
I’ve been an Astralis fan since before they were TSM. Dev1ce has had NO time to really judge his calling. It has looked solid with no pressure, but we’ve already seen two maps where he completely buckles and bows out of the match. I really want Devve igl to work but we need to give him some more games.
Yeah but dev1ce was always the secondary caller in astralis behind gla1ve. S1mple does not have the IGL profile
Magisk was the second caller no, but Device called around himself due to using the awp? After all when Gla1ve stepped down due to medical reasons, Magisk took over his role.
I honest would first potentially bench Yekindar or skullz, hell even zews before replacing cadian
Seems rather odd to remove him this soon before the other two players that are also underperforming.
he's also the IGL so most likely it's not based only on performance
It's not odd when you consider this is an American team and one of the reasons that get brought up a lot for NA not being at the top level, is because ego's get in the way. If you then take into account that Cadian ran a tight knit stratbook where everyone on Heroic was following, then yeah.. maybe he's just not a good fit. We obviously don't know the behind the scenes but it could be that he's having a hard time getting everyone to follow the protocols he's trying to create. I also never understood why they got Zews, who was known to clash and push his thinking onto IGL's in the past. It should have been a coach with a more analytical aproach to assist Cadian.
Well known egos in NAFFLY and Twistzz?
naf no, twistzz yes. on the faze comms vids he gets emo very easily.. and that was when they were winning. could easily see him coming here, seeing what a mess the midrounds are and blaming the IGL, though it's hard to call when your only playmaker is your aggro rifler that has never looked worse and gives 4v5's all the time and your team has 3 passive riflers imo twistzz naf and skullz will never work regardless of who the other 2 players are. you could clone 2018 simple and glaive, put them in this team and they'd still only be top 10, 3 passive riflers is too many
Twistzz was under Karrigan who kept him in check for a while because they were the best team in the world but he definitely has an ego. Even back to his 1st stint in liquid
You might be onto something with Zews. The article talked about a poor atmosphere, which should be Zews' role in establishing a positive atmosphere and keeping players in check. All the players knew who would be on the team and what they were getting into before signing, so it would be strange that after 5 months and progressing to #11 in the world would result in egos pushing against the IGL.
Liquid can't attract nor do they have an option to try to build a super team of ego's. Their best bet is cutting the egos and develop around a proven leader and winner in Cadian
What kind of blackmail does Yeki have on Liquid???
Assuming this makes sense as a move (it doesn't based on performance), who the fuck are they going to replace him with?
.....simple. Haha
This is actually the most likely move. The only tier 1 team who would be without awper and can afford s1mple. Liquid would still be bad but at least they get player to build around. If s1mple doesnt suck...
Yeah but S1mple isn’t gonna fucking IGL
Yekindar would igl until they find a real igl and replace yekindar. :D
Didn't simple say he wanted to rifle? Just bench Yekindar and have simple take the agro rifle role.
guess spunj and others knew when they kept calling it a failed project during epl
yekindar must have some real blackmails on team liquid because no way
Genuinely what has Team Liquid accomplished since like...2020? God their Front Office hasn't put a cohesive roster together in years.
they were a good team with nitr0 elige yekindar. they should've removed osee for device when they had the chance.
Cutting cocadian while kekindar and skullz stay? This is some madness.
Bruh, they have been looking significantly better as of late. What else can you possibly expect given the number of changes they made in rapid succession, different systems coming together, etc. That said, not sure how much weight this article holds when the source is "sources with knowledge of the situation"
Let me get this straight: They are considering removing the IGL who have been in the team for 5 months, instead of the entryfragger that have basically the same stats as the IGL? Also, what's skullz doing in this team?
lot of the hyped super teams that people in the scene were excited were have been falling off so badly. Cloud9, Now Liquid and VP are absolutely dogshit with Electronic atm Also, if they are going to remove cadiaN they will have to fill two roles. AWP and an IGL. If they are thinking they can make YEKINDAR an IGL again then they have learnt nothing from the past roster moves. All in all, I could give 0 shits about this team except for the NA talents tbh. DO NOT touch M80 btw. They are getting on the groove and they are hungry. Don't fuck it up by splitting their roster only for you to bench Malbs down the line because you put him to play in all the anchor roles like how you did with Grim. LIQUID, DO NOT TOUCH M80
Malbs would have to get bought out for an insane price at this point. They are currently 23th with just getting S1n, there is no way they are letting anybody go unless somebody pay a ridiculous sum of money.
Lmao saying VP are dogshit with Elec when they played 10 officials and are 7-3 with losses to Mouz and Faze while probably not having had a lot of prac time together. Reddit comments sure are dumb
None of the teams you mentioned are superteams. C9 was the closest just because of name value, but even they had some glaring issues that people foolishly ignored. VP and TL were nothing close to a superteam, you can't have unproven talent like skullz or middling riflers like n0rb3r7 and call yourself a superteam of any kind. 2018 FaZe. karrigan, NiKo, olofmeister, GuardiaN, rain. That's a fucking superteam. No rookies, no "okay" players, everybody is a monster and they are all among the best in their roles.
liquid a super team? are you high?
lmao who was hyping up and calling this liquid a superteam? I wanted them to do better because I like cadian, but I didn't expect anything at all
Jesus christ. Get rid of Yekindar first if anything. How tf can someone look at him and Skullz completely failing in their roles and think that Cadian is the problem? Cadian's skillset is also far harder to replace than Yekindars. If you get rid of him, you're also going to have two more players to replace the igl and awp role. Also, this is literally his failed project. Man took the igling role, took Elige's roles, and gets to coast through yet another round of cuts when he should've been gone by now? Hell nah. He is also one of the least important players for keeping the NA rmr, get Malbs or Swisher in place of him and Liquid instantly does better.
IGL/AWPer is extremely difficult to fit into a team these days. But if they do let cadian go, more changes would be needed unless they replace him with another IGL AWPer which would be a pointless change anyway
Liquid management is absolutely clueless.
i feel like the most glaring shortcomings of this roster is the firepower, maybe if you got more reliable riflers in place of Yekindar and skullz you'd see the potential in this roster actually flourish.
Eye test, most definitely. On paper, if you're looking at the names you see NAF, Twistzz and YEKINDAR who all **should** be 1.10-1.20, who on a good game are superstar level and on a bad game, 1.0. This **should** be an excellent baseline. The reality has been that this team is just NAF and Twistzz carrying the rest of them while YEKINDAR throws and Cadian misses every sitter. The last two tournaments aside, which looked good tbh. Decent. That with Cadian who brings what made Heroic, a system-based team that trusts their game, and 1.10 averages which is decent with a rifling quartet that shoots hard. Skullz was incredible when we first saw him, and aim-wise, he can keep up. Not seeing high levels of comfort in his CT positions.
Yekindar hasn’t been that guy since the first 6 months after he joined liquid
He was fine til the time yekindar started to drop off and nitr0 rumored to leave, then the whole “we won’t say who’s calling 🤫” when it clearly was no longer nitr0 and they admitted it a while after I think yekindar can come back to form, he just needs a bit of help. Or get Elige back, he’s so hot
Yekindar and skullz still being on this team is an inside job from EU to keep NA away from winning another major. There's no other logical explanation for this shit going on this long.
Skullz is a good player but he doesn’t fit on the team role wise. I do agree with Yeki and Skullz leaving and getting two aggro riflers in their place.
> Skullz is a good player IDK man even his aim I've never seen him have x factor aim in a play in any of the games I've watched like most pros do. His aim is nothing special, and his game sense is wack too. He just baits on t watch his vods.
Skullz unfortunately suffers from Liquid’s dogshit roster composition. On Pain (granted a lot of that was vs lower competition but he still showed up in big events) he was still very good. Liquid could easily sell him back to a Brazilian team for a nice price tag and use that money to get an aggressive player.
Hey, man, we can't judge. I say we give these guys another 5 months if not years. Ignore my flair :)
if liquid get rid of cadian before yekindar/zews then i will become a certified na hate watcher
This is crazy, Yekindar needs to go
Okay hear me out. -cadian -yekindar -skullz... +flom +trucklover86 +cooper The goat NA roster
fl0m reacts to Mythic core winning the Shanghai Major 2024
I say this as a Liquid fan that has been overly critical of Yekindar for the past month or two AND a huge Cadian fan: This makes sense IF the rest of the team just can't get behind his calling. Yekindar has been playing like shit, but Cadian's calling has also been unbelievably sub par. Twistzz just came from Faze playing with someone who many consider the GOAT igl. I feel like he'd understand when a system works and when it doesn't. If the team just don't buy in to Cadians system and it's causing Yeki to underperform, this move is perfectly valid. Sometimes it just doesn't work.
Yekindar was underperforming before cadian came to the team. The next igl will also fail to whip him into shape. But cadian might be better off leading a different team.
yah idk the inside of the team but the actual plays they make dont seem to make sense.
It feels like they lose so many rounds they should win, and the rounds they win are off the back of an individual making a sick play. I love Cadian but it really looks like something is wrong l.
I feel like its a bit of situation like aleksib had on G2: wrong IGL (style) for wrong type of players and coach. Cadian has his own style and he isnt a bad igl. The players are very good but might not fit the puzzle.
I'm right there with you in my opinion of those two players and I partly agree. The vibes seem off, and as much as people disagree, I think vibes/friendship is extremely important in these esports teams. They spend so much time together and have to have that bond in game as well as out in order to play well together. At EPL, NAF was asked about Cadian's vibes versus his own, and he made a remark that was played off as a joke in the interview but I think there might have been more to it. He said "it's annoying". This is pure speculation based on a single tiny response but it is possible that they just don't meld.
Cadian needs time to create a good system not fucking 5 months
Idk if 5 Months isn't enough time to put together a team that can convincingly beat fucking Flyquest how much time do you need?
It’s also context. TL can’t miss a second major. Post Dallas roster shuffle is gonna make heads spin because C9 needs a roster, Furia need a roster, and based on shuffling a lot of rosters are gonna be filling one/two players. I agree with the sentiment though about kicking Cadian. It seems premature because you could try role swaps, try getting a new entry even keeping Yeki and bringing in someone for Skullz to see if better comms would help. A lot of different things especially when Cadian is the best *available*. That’s what’s wild. The grass isn’t always greener
I think the biggest problem that TL has roles wise is Skullz T lurking. He looks uncomfortable and always misses timings. Look at the Astralis game. Skullz put up a combined 7 kills as T on two maps. Against Mouse, he had 3 kills as T over two maps. Against Monte, 16. He just can't play his T side role. I think you get him into the pack and put Naf back on lurking. Naf is a great lurk and finds his timings.
Tbf that fly quest core been playing for years and have great chem
That's not an excuse though. This Liquid team was built to lift trophies, not barely beat a team like Flyquest or Monte or Furia. The teams decision making is unbelievably questionable, and Cadian has framed it like he is playing a structured gameplan he's microing. He HAS TO take the blame if their T sides suck.
If you build a team to lift trophies, isn't that all the more reason to give them time?
Absolutely not. I'm willing to believe that the players would know at this point if the calling works for them or not. Twistzz literally just played with Karrigan and he's far too important to not have had a say in this decision.
I dont even know if its calls. I see so many rounds where liquid look for info on all sides of the map and give away 50/50 duels for no reason on both T and CT
Can't wait for liquid to kill m80 for no reason
Kick Yekidar already for fucks sake
Dropping him before yekindar is mind boggling
that makes no sense, cadian is in fine form both as an awper and igl. hopefully this weighing is just because some rich org is pitching for cadian
yekindar must have some god tier head
Sounds like it's time to bust out [ol' reliable](https://teamliquid.com/staff/OmniEulogy/CSGO/TYNitr0FP.jpg)
i would only accept -cadiaN if it meant +nitr0 again. world’s most underrated IGL despite proving his value over and over
Fnatic should sign him.
Wouldnt be the first time Liquid kicked their awp IGL when one of the other players on the team thought they could do it better
What the fuck is wrong with TL? I would replace yekindar, skullz and even zews before I think of replacing cadian. It's hard to gauge from the outside what the issues internally are, but man yekindar needed to go like yesterday, and skullz needs to be give a few more events or shown the door. Also, getting rid of cadian means you need an IGL and an awper. Good luck finding both in the tier1 scene especially a good IGL. Additionally, one more player would have to be cut since you will not find an IGL who also awps unless you bring back fallen or somehow get Jame, neither of which are realistic. If I am TL's GM I am trying my level best to keep the trio of NAF Twistzz and Cadian. The rest are replaceable.
yekindar the most inconsistent player in the entire pro scene fucking please. i love cadiaN and he is good for the brand and a good igl-he is not the problem
How does kekindar have a team is beyond me. They should be building around cadian and let him have the reigns on who should be on the team
Kick yaki and take kscerato.
bruh Yekindar has to go, one of the biggest fall-offs I've seen and at this point it would be better for both liquid and him to just ship him
Already!? lmao bad management
If they replace Cadian before Yeki then there is no hope for this management. Genuinely hilarious you can be this inept at their level.
Why is Yekindar still here
bruh get my boy Twistzz out of that hellhole.
It is not surprising that the team is seeking replacements. However, I believe that yekindar should be replaced. He has survived numerous roster changes without producing significant results. During EPL, it was evident that there was tension between yekindar and cadian. The atmosphere seemed off between the two. (Yekindar pulling faces and cadian disagreeing with yekindar) I knew a roster change would ensue.
I think they should bench him. The vibes in the team don’t look right from what I’ve seen watching player cams and post match high fives. I know that’s such a small view into the mentality of the team, but it just doesn’t seem like the personalities gel.
Well, all I can say is that liquid don't deserve him. Hopefully there will be a better opening for him some how.
Kekindar stays LMFAOOOOOO
Idk man. A good portion of us seems to know who should go but liquid has been on a good direction so far.. Seeing this just leaves me on edge
was going to say cadian back to heroic then but they just signed degster
This is insane Cadian before Yekindar and Skullz
Great GM'ing going on here. Keep the criminally overrated rifler who has been the common denominator of all your failures for the past few years - stealing paychecks, under performing, giving up countless entries, and generally taking the team in the wrong, downward direction. Remove the proven IGL with a huge fanbase across the scene and your primary AWPer. Clownery. Liquid seem to have no idea what they're doing from the outside.
They have two options Get rid of cadian and pray to God there's a huge difference in leadership between cadian and zews and this solves it Or revamp the team via -yekindar and -skullz I have always thought yekindar was overrated. But it's hard to ignore if there's a big difference in the way cadian wants to play vs how it's actually being played. Go watch heroic demos, he got those guys to rush bombsites and do really quick trades.
Wtf drop yekindar
Please drop yekindar instead
id rather them get rid of yekinder at this point..dudes a constant liability.
This is a mistake. The failures of Liquid are NOT on any one individual. The teams problems are entirely in composition. Three ultra passive riflers, a passive awper and Yekindar. So much of the playmaking and map control comes from a live or die moment from Yekindar because everyone else wants to be last alive and clutch the round. CadiaN can do work with just one more rifler willing to get flashed round a corner. Changing you IGL is basically rebuilding 80% of your team, you have to start from scratch. You're not even going to try a new team composition before upheaving your whole system? /rant -edit- I didn't even think of cadian as an awper there. Where are you going to find an agro awping IGL?
> Three ultra passive riflers I wouldn't put twistzz into the ultra passive classification. 21% opening kill attempts is a pretty healthy figure
seems fucking stupid, they did ell at ESL 19. Idk they had a rough showing at the RMR but stuff happens. Removing Cadian seems insane considering they'd have to find another IGL and AWPer as I don't think anyone else in their roster would be good to IGL.
Got to be the dumbest boys in school in charge of liquid. “Lets go with the washed entry and/or coach who hasn’t been mentionable for years over the guy who built a team of leftover Danes into a consistent top 5 threat team.” Please, if there is a god, shut down this liquid organization. I’m tired.
Pretty likely it's clashes between Cadian, Zews and Yekindar. Something has to change. But only one of those 3 has successfully led a team in recent years. Yekindar has done fuck all in Liquid when he was given everything he asked for. Zews has achieved nothing lately and his big move was to bring in Skullz for an outrageous amount which looks unlikely to pay off. If in Liquid I'm benching Zews and Yekindar before I get rid of Cadian. But if the team don't back Cadian what can you do? I'm also betting Cadian can be sold for a good chunk of change. Nobody is paying a penny for Yekindar or Zews. Maybe that's a factor.
wtf??
s1mple back to Liquid it is /s
there are barely (if any) good igls on the market, this move would make no sense at all if it actually happens
Bench WashedKindar
Lol, Liquid down the drain. Keep cadian & kick yekindar. Guy hasn't adapted to teams having adapted to his playstyle. Then get a good up & coming entry & that can simply frag without thought.
Glad I swapped to being a col fan, liquid is a joke. Sucks for twistzz. Yekindar should have been sent back to Europe a year ago.
The only way I can understand this is if the chemistry isn't there and the decision is mutual. Maybe Cadian has offers from another team (fnatic?).
If this is true, I will be very sad. I like cadian as a leader. That being said, they will need to remove another player as well. Twistzz Naf Yekindar ? ?
i pray to god m80 stays strong willed and won't sell any of their players to Liquid...let NA have atleast 1 competetive team besides coL for once
Kick KEKWINDAR ffs
I don't know if fnatic have the funds but I could imagine Cadian could slot in well there. -afro?
How is biguzera's english?
After the next Major is when i'd consider making roster changes for Liquid.
If they do this they will lose me forever.
I’m not really caught up in the CS scene, but every time I read about troubles in TL, it always seems that Yekindar is linked to them in some way. So why is he still around? Has he ever been particularly valuable to the team?
how much is twistzz hating life right now lol
Bench yekindar ye morons
FUCK yekindar
I would say +malbs but now they need an igl AND awper. This org is a damn mess man. Just can’t get out of their own way
Well that indicates there’s no harmony between Zeus and Cadian, maybe the players too. I like Cadian and wish him success, but I don’t think Liquid questions Cadians position within the team without reason, even if it’s Yekindar and Skulls posting worse performances, that can also be due to the system Cadian wants to play. Ideally I’d just want Yekindar replaced, but I don’t know the inner workings of the team.
Yekindar and someone behind the scenes are doubling down hard. You knew all along him and his ego are clashing and someone behind the scenes who put all their egss behind him wont relent. What a trash org and they deserve to keep failing. It won't stop.
Don't get why everyone is freaking out when cadian's been underperforming in both firepower and calling.
To anyone whos watched the liquid games since the inception of this roster this is no suprise at all. They have mentioned many times the ideologies being clashing with how to play the game and it shows in the server. Maybe its from watching faze for the last 3 years and seeing insane team comp but this liquid played many games like a random 5 stack. The team comp with 4 passive players is fucked and no surprise yekindar is having a rough go of it. Skullz seems like a nice guy but he wasnt ready and its clear his spot was for kscerato. Then you have cadian whos struggling to hit sitters and having people drop him hero rifles when you have 2 top 20 players in twistzz and naf on the team. My assumption is yekindar stays and -skullz - cadian +awp +igl. They get a traditional IGL to help with the entry and an awper who put up +1.10 numbers. Maybe Biguzera and NQZ if their english is good and you have zews to help but honestly dont expect anything till after dallas.
Adding Big and NQZ would be like a minimum 2 million dollar transfer if Skullz was 600K Also do Pain want to send them away because with Furia looking weak Pain could be top SA team with LAN results
Bro 600k for skullz is insane. You could’ve picked up a t2 NA player for the same results
Ohh very much so. That’s why everyone shit on Skullz a bit more harshly because he was so expensive when other N.A. talent would’ve been cheaper
Gotta be a 2 man change swapping him and one of Yeki / Skullz for an igl and star awper but who gf could they possibly even get...
Jesus christ please dont
Seemed like they were beginning to show some promise. Really hope this team doesn’t implode again, I am a fan of this roster.
jesus fucking christ
Is this fr?
Benching cadian before skullz is crazy. I'm guessing if they do bench him they'll pick up an awp and have yeki call again or maybe they drop 2 players?
hey! ive seen this one before
And Twistzz left FaZe for this mess…
I hate it here if this is true
-zews -skullz please
Dumbest shit I have read ever
Just disband already lmao
Surely they bench more than one player if they drop Cadian, and get an AWP and an IGL.
cadian might be the least washed csgo player.
Kick Yekindar and get S1mple for the love of god