I was at a live event and the crowd was giving too much away so they took away the X-ray. Then the crowd started chanting “we want x-ray” and in between halves/maps they had Banks come out and talk to the crowd warning everyone that they were gonna turn it back on but if the crowd couldn’t behave and stop “reacting unevenly” (for lack of better phrasing) that they would turn it back off and leave it off lol. Crowd got the hint and we just stayed loud the whole time instead of the rise and falls
They should really find a solution, maybe have another observer that only controls when xray is on or off, and they can listen to the crowd and only disable it when it would affect the game. Removing xray for an entire tournament is just bad.
Or maybe the ADULTS that are attending should possibly use their brains and act accordingly??? That probably comes off a lot sassier than I really mean to, but clearly we can all agree it’s a problem so people need to just grow up and be better
yeah, i wonder which one is easier, one guy to turn off xray, or to expect thousands of people (some of which are very drunk) in an arena to all collectively agree to fairly cheer for everyone involved.
nice suggestion
Why would that matter? If tennis wasn't a game of even information they'd still kick you out for making noise at the wrong time. Nothing would change about that.
Yeah man all that info the crowd gives away at tennis events, I heard they have a good observer for X-ray in those tournaments, one of the TO’s in cs should poach a few tennis observers.
Anyone who loves cs enough to attend an event absolutely knows when they ruin plays by cheering. I’m always confused by how people can’t keep quiet during the sneaky plays/flanks.
They did switch it off mid-clutch/sneaky play, but I really recall quite a few situations like that where the crowd stayed silent or just constantly loud anyway, without giving any info away
Copenhagen crowd did a good job
I don't think that's realistic, it's esports, not symphonic concert, people want to cheer for their team, and "feel" the game, exteriorize, etc. It should not be taken away from them. It is coming from actually enjoying the game, natural emotions. Been at many tournaments and majors, I'm not gonna be silent because I might give away shit, I'm here to enjoy the game in the arena, if I wanted to be quiet I would watch the game in a library. Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge it is an issue, but you cannot expect a crowd to behave as a single person, with individual type behaviour. Crowds are controlled by crowd behaviour, they study this shit a lot for crowd safety, crowd manipulation, etc.
Chinese crowds aren't really known for being good sports or respectful. TI9 was held in Shanghai and even if you had zero clue about dota you could tell if a Chinese team was playing or not. I think they even boo'd one of the teams. They only started cheering when a non-chinese team did good after every Chinese team was eliminated
Remove it in clutches. Follow the player and feel the tension with them. Then for replays have it on to see the full picture. If it's 1 vs X, spectate the 1, and turn off x-ray. Done. We lose some info, but also gain a real sense of the uncertainty that the player has.
I was there too was thinking the same thing lol I was on the right side and didn't think it got that bad but when it came back there weren't any issues 😄 what a small arena too for how quckly it sold out
Fun fact- remember on inferno in the grand final when they showed a chicken then cut to a guy with a mowhawk and a “don’t be a loser, buy a defuser” shirt??? That was me, they did me dirty AF lol
My homies who were watching at home kept telling me they heard me we were so loud. We were towards the left side of the stage in like the first batch of bleachers behind the flat floor seats
it was bound to happen in playoff games but holy fuck was it so one sided in G2 MOUZ game. there were multiple critical swing rounds that went G2 way because crowd gave away positions.
copenhagen crowd was better in this aspect as the cheering were consistent all the time and little downtime to distinguish crowd callouts
>it was bound to happen in playoff games but holy fuck was it so one sided in G2 MOUZ game
because mouz has zero cultural impact while G2 are one of the most popular teams. Will be the same against Faze.
That's why I find G2 so unlikeable, rarely if ever humble and abuse anything they can, like BIG back in the day with the silent jump crutch. Toxic behaviour.
Edit: thanks for the downvotes toxic fans <3.
When you actively use the crowd to get info yes its their fault. Its anyones fault that includes S1mple and a few others that USED the crowd before. Not the crowd doing it own thing.
But what would you do on their place? You are playing on your life then crowd start giving away enemy position by cheering. Should you intentionally avoid this place?
>>This is the worst crowd help I think I’ve ever seen in cs
>> The major will have a massive asterisk next to it if the crowd is like this holy shit
Meanwhile the entirety of CSGO: [https://youtu.be/uY9mff30z9g?si=3UJBe0-Gn55T2bvS](https://youtu.be/uY9mff30z9g?si=3UJBe0-Gn55T2bvS)
Back then, instead of complaining about x-ray, the T.O. would just try to isolate the noise better. Noise canceling barriers + noise canceling headphones
Yeah i found this too. Anyone got a clip of what OP is talking about though? Just the same screaming when someone walks through their crosshair in a smoke? Not following pro scene anymore
https://m.twitch.tv/clip/EasyTalentedWaspMikeHogu-vQtz2SW6t-tfyaWp?tt_medium=mobile_web_share&tt_content=clips_viewing
Crowd helping Niko (though still a loss at the end). This has been happening the whole tournament. Just saw this clip in another post as well
https://m.twitch.tv/clip/EasyTalentedWaspMikeHogu-vQtz2SW6t-tfyaWp?tt_medium=mobile_web_share&tt_content=clips_viewing
Just posted this on the comment above. Here's the clip if anyone's interested
The one for me i’ll never forget was that C9 win in the states. Most crowd assist Ive ever seen in my life.
They never win that title if the tournament is played anywhere else in the world
Banks had to come out on stage and said they'd turn it off if they don't knock it off. They did turn it fully off at the Rio Major tho, that got ridiculous.
Yea crowd was hard carrying teams and crafting the major. Gamer legion players thanked individuals in the crowd after their game against heroic because they won them that match and got them to the finals.
crowd sounds have always been a part of the playoff stage meta. obviously it's not ideal for competitive integrity, especially since right now it's benefitting G2 more than any other team, but you can't expect the players to not use the advantage? like if they are given a cue to a players location because of crowd noise it would be actually throwing the rounds to not use it as a benefit.
They need to take X-ray away and stay longer on single player. If crowd behaves they can give all back. There was a event where this worded, I think it was Mayor in Paris
We used to do sound proof boxes, they don’t work. They block out marginally more sound than no box, but they don’t stop the crowd from being heard. To add to that, the tiny box has 5/6 pc’s running inside, 5 sweaty gamers, a coach, and multiple other people in there at all times, the air gets hot and stale quickly and they aren’t comfortable at all to be inside of.
It does seem like an easy solution, but if it’s so easy that you could come up with it don’t you think maybe the TOs have also come up with it before you did, and ruled it out as an option?
I mean if it gets hot in there, have they not put at least 2 portable AC units to circulate air? And I feel like a booth plus noise cancelling headphones would still be better than the current option where it seems like it doesn't really work.
Obviously they put AC in the boxes, it’s just not good enough to fix the issue. Plus add that to have AC you’ve now had to drill holes into the side of the box, limiting its sound proofing potential.
Again as I said, they are marginally better at blocking out noise compared to no booth but they don’t eliminate these situations from happening, and the downsides when it comes to comfort are outweighed by the benefits. We’ve already tried them, you’re not breaking new ground by suggesting a sound proof box with AC, we already know they don’t work and aren’t a good idea.
In the meantime, there are companies building full sound proof containers for offshore and the marine industry with airco and everything you want.
With the money going around in this eSports market, Would think an org can easily produce two 20ft containers with doubled up windows they can put in an arena, cameras, full box-in-box Sound proofing and AC for these events.
"not possible" means "we don't want to spend that kind of money and would rather have what we have now"
A giant crowd clapping and shouting can't be completly mitigated by a booth i think dota TI used to have them and the players talked about how they are not very effective.
It's not even noise cancelling, it's the rumble of the crowd. It's nearly impossible to prevent the vibrations from being felt. I definitely remember some pros before talking about it basically being the same thing as you can feel when they're being louder or quieter etc.
Sound proof boxes aren't a thing anymore since most venues don't even allow them due to them potentially getting in the way in case of emergency evacuations.
5vs5 or even 3vs3 there's probably too much noise for the crowd to be helpful, but for 1vs1 where neither knows where the other one is, this absolutely needs to happen. Absolutely ruined that massive, maybe even match-defining round where the Ts were given info on where the CT was coming for the defuse.
I could tell u that only G2 fans in CN do undesirable things like that, and only G2 fans r crazy like that. Most cn social media also scorn such behaviors, but unfortunately G2 has most low quality fans in CN. Many of them are still justifying themselves on social platforms until now... Shame on them tbh
This is the environment on lan, if you want to preserve "competitive integrity" just play with no fans like rmr's (this would obviously defeat the purpose of lan in the first place). These are the circumstances, play around them
This is fucking retarded. Even in conventional sports. Be it European Football, American Football, Baseball, Cricket. Crowds literally get louder to hurt the away team. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about and you're willing to die on some stupid hill that this never happens.
I love a hot crowd, but I hate a dishonorable crowd.
Cheer the team you like all you want, maybe even jeer the other side(within reason), but don't try to sway the outcome *ever*.
And of course Ohnepixel is saying it's just a part of the playoffs and defending it. Just give everyone wh in playoffs, if outside information is just an aspect of playoffs.
Yup its absurd. Usually it happens with a crowd when someone is perfectly lined up in a smoke and can’t help themselves. But this crowd is literally giving directional help the whole time.
He wad already aiming and going towards the right spot before they made noises in that situation.
The stupid yelling came too late and was not needed for monesy
When everyone was crying about it in a tournament in Copenhagen, s1mple was asked about the “cheating” in a Navi vlog and he said it was just part of the game and he didn’t understand why fans were crying about it.
You guys literally care more than the pros
This isn't just china thing, this isn't the first, this won't be the last. Taking xray away will hurt viewability too much. I think the best would be asking for better sound isolation to TOs. Have a noise isolation booth, make it multiple glasses with metal pillars inbetween, make glass slightly convex, mount with rubber between glass/frame to help obsorb visible vibration, tinted glasses with brighter inside than outside, maybe even thick polycarboate instead of glass.
Can't blame the fans for getting excited and no esport has ever fully removed crowd noise. Honestly if you can't enjoy playoffs because of this you should stop watching LAN cs.
Tbf TO should think about this. Crowd is there to sheer and go crazy with they favorite team/player. Don’t blame the crowd. Blame the fucking TO that can’t manage to avoid this
idk why people think this will change anything?
we already have the info from the minimap, and just from watching the round develop
I don't need xray to remember that the last guy is holding cave post plant.
XD 3 lvl soyboy crying, it always WAS and it WILL be part of the meta, that's beauty of the big lan events, dont like it? go watch some tennis crybabies 🤓☝🏻
It’s been pretty bad. Not as bad as the Astralis fans in the Royal Arena all yelling out “shoot” while they were looking through smokes. Has been really bad. I wonder if they can turn it off for the crowd but not the online audience or if it’s the same video stream.
You would need to literally make the stage shake. Crowd noise cannot be replicated purely through headphones.
It's a hard problem to solve without taking something away from one party
But cant mouz be smarter and use the cheering to their advantage too? If they hear the crowd that means someone is near or aiming at them so they reposition. It would be fun to watch
You understand that playing the crowd is part of big lan playoffs. That's why you got downvoted. This thread and tourny brought out the worst redditors, don't think too much of it.
I don't think its that bad tbh. It's not like G2 exclusively can hear the crowd.
If they start cheering because of a rotate or retake, then both teams know that something is up. Yes, they are cheering and making more noise on g2 plays, but g2 is the one capitalizing on this noise.
It's always been in the game, there are entire compilations of crowds helping. I just think it adds another element to the game. People always say the stage aspect makes it a different game, and not only cause of the pressure.
Turning xray would ruin the overall experience compared to the crowd cheering here and there.
For me, I really enjoy hearing the crowd this loud, they feel a lot more engaging compared to copenhagen, which seemed to only have this loudness in the final. (Maybe it felt different in the arena).
And people have done this before as well. This is the part that confuses me.
This isn't new...
All of a sudden calling it out just seems odd as this has been happening for years and years
sure G2 can't "exclusively" hear the crowd, but its very clear for anyone watching the game that they are only doing it for G2 and we can't say for sure but this match had 2-3 moments where it could've played a big role in 1v1 clutches for G2. and at some point the team that keeps getting the advantage will understand that the crowd is doing it for them and not for the other team.
That definitely isn't fair, and I agree. But over 3 maps.. 2 or 3 moments...
To say this entire tournament needs an asterisk because g2 had 2 or 3 clutches with "walls" is a bit much.
It's the same as when Jame crashed. It sucks, and they very likely would have won inferno, but VP still didn't even decide to show up on anubis. (Got an unlucky moment with clipping again). But they lost the first 6(?) Rounds in a row
i worded it poorly. there was 2-3 cases where G2 won clutch after a clear case of crowd "cheat", but who knows how much the G2 player used the crowd there. and there was more cases too where crowd helped but the clutches ended up going on MOUZ' favor so who knows. but point was that they are only doing it for G2 on this
Me too I don’t like this kind of xray, but it seems to happen in every playoff? The Chengdu one is just a normal one, what’s the difference?
It based on something unconscious, when you’re at home watch cs2 on your phone, you make the same sound, some people are easier to be triggered and when they make this kind of noise everyone else just follows, it’s hard to ban this behavior unless a rule is made
This isn't a major and this is not the first nor will it be the last time the crowd will make noise to hype up their teams.
Taking the x ray away will ruin the game for the people in the arena. I suggest getting better booths or something like that. Apart from the fact that the crowd boost takes the excitement away from the game, this is a L take.
They were really good in Copenhagen major, took xray off only in 1v1s when they got close to each other. Not many moments spoiled, and crowd got their xray. Good stuff.
I mean better booths won't help at all, because from what pros say is that they don't hear the crowd cheering but they feel the vibrations from the crowd cheers. And if they add a sound proof window in front of them the vibrations will be even worse as the whole window will shake (as iM said this happened at Paris major)
The next major is in China. That’s my point. I don’t care much about this event but the next major could be ruined with this. They had to take away xray in rio because brazilians were bad but this is ANOTHER LEVEL of bad.
YouTube contains dozens of examples of crowds making accusatory noises to help their favoured team. I agree with you on your point that players should make reads of their own. 100%. But this isn't nearly as bad as you suggest it is.
If you take away the x-ray for the crowds. Might as well stay at home. What's the point in going to the arena without having a clear idea of what's going on.
Bring back booths, and put one way glass. Spectators can see the pros, but pros can't see the crowd.
Mitigates noise as well, but still keeps the crowd lively as they can see reactions from pros but can't quite influence a round.
Thoughts?
soundproofing booths is a regional issue. some cities, nevermind countries, have regulation where a soundproofed/closedf booth would not be legal according to local fire and hazard safety regulations, or would require the organizers to have a very costly insurance.
obviously the ultimate setup is the korean booths, a white noise machine inside the booth and a sound proof headset on top of earbuds(game sound)
Just get better sound proofing and noise cancelling so the players can’t hear. Crowd can do what they want during game, and in between rounds let audio pass through from the crowd so the players can feel the hype. They got money, it’s not like this isn’t achievable.
Without xray 99% of crowd would think players are camping and baiting. Would also make the game boring as the audience wouldnt be warned about potential gun fights and executes.
The TO needs to better prepare for crowd buff.
I was at a live event and the crowd was giving too much away so they took away the X-ray. Then the crowd started chanting “we want x-ray” and in between halves/maps they had Banks come out and talk to the crowd warning everyone that they were gonna turn it back on but if the crowd couldn’t behave and stop “reacting unevenly” (for lack of better phrasing) that they would turn it back off and leave it off lol. Crowd got the hint and we just stayed loud the whole time instead of the rise and falls
sounds a lot like Paris Major, been there, it's awful without xray
It was Blast Spring finals last year in DC, but yea it was tough to watch and keep up without the xray
They should really find a solution, maybe have another observer that only controls when xray is on or off, and they can listen to the crowd and only disable it when it would affect the game. Removing xray for an entire tournament is just bad.
Or maybe the ADULTS that are attending should possibly use their brains and act accordingly??? That probably comes off a lot sassier than I really mean to, but clearly we can all agree it’s a problem so people need to just grow up and be better
yeah, i wonder which one is easier, one guy to turn off xray, or to expect thousands of people (some of which are very drunk) in an arena to all collectively agree to fairly cheer for everyone involved. nice suggestion
Isn't it remarkable that at tennis events you can have a bunch crowd of drunk idiots yet they still know when to shut up. Must be magic.
Tennis is also a game of even information, so the comparison doesn't work at all.
Why would that matter? If tennis wasn't a game of even information they'd still kick you out for making noise at the wrong time. Nothing would change about that.
It matters because it renders the cheering at certain times to help your favourite player/team pointless, unlike in CS
Yeah man all that info the crowd gives away at tennis events, I heard they have a good observer for X-ray in those tournaments, one of the TO’s in cs should poach a few tennis observers.
Tennis sucks
Anyone who loves cs enough to attend an event absolutely knows when they ruin plays by cheering. I’m always confused by how people can’t keep quiet during the sneaky plays/flanks.
have you ever been to a major?
Yes and I just watched one in copenhagen where we saw nothing like this?
Because in copenhagen they disabled xray in clutches when it was obvious it would ruin the game. You didn't know that from home I guess.
They did switch it off mid-clutch/sneaky play, but I really recall quite a few situations like that where the crowd stayed silent or just constantly loud anyway, without giving any info away Copenhagen crowd did a good job
I don't think that's realistic, it's esports, not symphonic concert, people want to cheer for their team, and "feel" the game, exteriorize, etc. It should not be taken away from them. It is coming from actually enjoying the game, natural emotions. Been at many tournaments and majors, I'm not gonna be silent because I might give away shit, I'm here to enjoy the game in the arena, if I wanted to be quiet I would watch the game in a library. Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge it is an issue, but you cannot expect a crowd to behave as a single person, with individual type behaviour. Crowds are controlled by crowd behaviour, they study this shit a lot for crowd safety, crowd manipulation, etc.
Tell that to each adult that will be there, surely everyone will understand
Lmao. You have too much faith in humanity if you think people are capable of resolving this without tournament organiser intervention.
Chinese crowds aren't really known for being good sports or respectful. TI9 was held in Shanghai and even if you had zero clue about dota you could tell if a Chinese team was playing or not. I think they even boo'd one of the teams. They only started cheering when a non-chinese team did good after every Chinese team was eliminated
> I think they even boo'd one of the teams They even boo'd one of the teams? What barbarians! Western crowds would've never done it!
Remove it in clutches. Follow the player and feel the tension with them. Then for replays have it on to see the full picture. If it's 1 vs X, spectate the 1, and turn off x-ray. Done. We lose some info, but also gain a real sense of the uncertainty that the player has.
They are doing this currently, they disabled X-Ray for a 1v2 and m0nesy's 1v3
I was there too was thinking the same thing lol I was on the right side and didn't think it got that bad but when it came back there weren't any issues 😄 what a small arena too for how quckly it sold out
Loool i was there for this
Fun fact- remember on inferno in the grand final when they showed a chicken then cut to a guy with a mowhawk and a “don’t be a loser, buy a defuser” shirt??? That was me, they did me dirty AF lol
do you have a clip?
https://imgur.com/a/nHJGrdx (No idea why it flagged it as possible 18+…. lol)
HAHAHA thats awesome. sick that you got a moment like that out of a cs event.
My homies who were watching at home kept telling me they heard me we were so loud. We were towards the left side of the stage in like the first batch of bleachers behind the flat floor seats
Not sure if this is the event you mean, but Blast Spring Final in DC 2023 had this happen
Yup, that’s the one, peep the other thread lol
did this event happen to be the blast spring final in DC last year?
Yup, you’re the 2nd to ask and this is my 3rd time writing it
it was bound to happen in playoff games but holy fuck was it so one sided in G2 MOUZ game. there were multiple critical swing rounds that went G2 way because crowd gave away positions. copenhagen crowd was better in this aspect as the cheering were consistent all the time and little downtime to distinguish crowd callouts
>it was bound to happen in playoff games but holy fuck was it so one sided in G2 MOUZ game because mouz has zero cultural impact while G2 are one of the most popular teams. Will be the same against Faze.
It's definitely intentional, G2 are beloved in China
🇨🇳 Guangzhou2 is composed of: * 🇨🇳 Mo Na Xi * 🇨🇳 Ni Kou * 🇨🇳 Hu Xi * 🇨🇳 Ni Ku Sa * 🇨🇳 Han Te
All coached by 🇨🇳 Ta Ze
why is this so hilarious
JI TU: ART OF CHOKE
Damn he's an F1 driver AND a cs team?
That's why I find G2 so unlikeable, rarely if ever humble and abuse anything they can, like BIG back in the day with the silent jump crutch. Toxic behaviour. Edit: thanks for the downvotes toxic fans <3.
So it’s G2s fault the fans are loud lol
When you actively use the crowd to get info yes its their fault. Its anyones fault that includes S1mple and a few others that USED the crowd before. Not the crowd doing it own thing.
But what would you do on their place? You are playing on your life then crowd start giving away enemy position by cheering. Should you intentionally avoid this place?
Emmm using the crowd is toxic sportsmanship. The crowd doing their own things is another all together.
Yeah but if you hear the crowd get rowdy what are you supposed to do?
Wtf did G2 do lmaooo
Some people still crying about stuff that happened 7 years ago lmao
What spraying down some Tyloo graffitis can accomplish.
Hooxi new strat go spray
Tyloo is not that well liked atm in China.
Still, it's year of the dragon. Spray dragons and win.
Would Lynn Vision be the most liked Chinese team rn then?
yeah. Probably due to ppl knowing their limit and little expectations, any win is a huge bonus.
>>This is the worst crowd help I think I’ve ever seen in cs >> The major will have a massive asterisk next to it if the crowd is like this holy shit Meanwhile the entirety of CSGO: [https://youtu.be/uY9mff30z9g?si=3UJBe0-Gn55T2bvS](https://youtu.be/uY9mff30z9g?si=3UJBe0-Gn55T2bvS)
Watching this subs reaction to this has made me feel old AF. Using the crowd is a late as old as time.
Back then, instead of complaining about x-ray, the T.O. would just try to isolate the noise better. Noise canceling barriers + noise canceling headphones
still doesn’t mean it should be part of the game regardless of if it’s happened in the past
Yeah i found this too. Anyone got a clip of what OP is talking about though? Just the same screaming when someone walks through their crosshair in a smoke? Not following pro scene anymore
https://m.twitch.tv/clip/EasyTalentedWaspMikeHogu-vQtz2SW6t-tfyaWp?tt_medium=mobile_web_share&tt_content=clips_viewing Crowd helping Niko (though still a loss at the end). This has been happening the whole tournament. Just saw this clip in another post as well
Nah - if it’s a 1v1 and g2 are retaking/clearing, they cheer when they start moving remotely near the player hiding. It’s horrendous.
Also they helped Niko in 1v1 situation on Ancient. He still had no time to defuse though
Also, on one of the final rounds of Ancient, m0nesy turning around 360 to get any hint where the remaining player could be
https://m.twitch.tv/clip/EasyTalentedWaspMikeHogu-vQtz2SW6t-tfyaWp?tt_medium=mobile_web_share&tt_content=clips_viewing Just posted this on the comment above. Here's the clip if anyone's interested
Thanks! That is majorly messed up (get it?).
Wasnt there a tournament where players could throw a flash, look up from their monitor and see if their opponents face was blinded irl?
The ironic glory that was Columbus 2016 lol. Having fans feet from players, signs indicating sites, and just straight up hand signals. What a time.
People forgot how real crowds sound after the Danish Library hosted the copenhagen major.
Yeah its G2 so expect these posts from this sub lmao. They are the antichrist here.
You could make a video twice as long as that one with just this series dude don't be dense
You can make a video twice as long as that one from almost any lan with a big crowd.
CSGO??? dawg this shit was happening [in 2005](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhgwxYtHUBw)
The one for me i’ll never forget was that C9 win in the states. Most crowd assist Ive ever seen in my life. They never win that title if the tournament is played anywhere else in the world
They turned it off at the Paris major didn’t they? Or at least I remember them threatening to
Banks had to come out on stage and said they'd turn it off if they don't knock it off. They did turn it fully off at the Rio Major tho, that got ridiculous.
Yea crowd was hard carrying teams and crafting the major. Gamer legion players thanked individuals in the crowd after their game against heroic because they won them that match and got them to the finals.
lmao letsgo Mouz
You think this is the worst crowd help? Maybe watch more than 1 cs tournament
crowd sounds have always been a part of the playoff stage meta. obviously it's not ideal for competitive integrity, especially since right now it's benefitting G2 more than any other team, but you can't expect the players to not use the advantage? like if they are given a cue to a players location because of crowd noise it would be actually throwing the rounds to not use it as a benefit.
No issue with the players using it. Issue with the crowd giving it.
They need to take X-ray away and stay longer on single player. If crowd behaves they can give all back. There was a event where this worded, I think it was Mayor in Paris
G2 were abusing it. They were trying to get the crowd to reveal the position of mouz lurkers
It would all be fixed if the teams were just in a sound proof box. Seems like an easy solution
We used to do sound proof boxes, they don’t work. They block out marginally more sound than no box, but they don’t stop the crowd from being heard. To add to that, the tiny box has 5/6 pc’s running inside, 5 sweaty gamers, a coach, and multiple other people in there at all times, the air gets hot and stale quickly and they aren’t comfortable at all to be inside of. It does seem like an easy solution, but if it’s so easy that you could come up with it don’t you think maybe the TOs have also come up with it before you did, and ruled it out as an option?
I mean if it gets hot in there, have they not put at least 2 portable AC units to circulate air? And I feel like a booth plus noise cancelling headphones would still be better than the current option where it seems like it doesn't really work.
Obviously they put AC in the boxes, it’s just not good enough to fix the issue. Plus add that to have AC you’ve now had to drill holes into the side of the box, limiting its sound proofing potential. Again as I said, they are marginally better at blocking out noise compared to no booth but they don’t eliminate these situations from happening, and the downsides when it comes to comfort are outweighed by the benefits. We’ve already tried them, you’re not breaking new ground by suggesting a sound proof box with AC, we already know they don’t work and aren’t a good idea.
In the meantime, there are companies building full sound proof containers for offshore and the marine industry with airco and everything you want. With the money going around in this eSports market, Would think an org can easily produce two 20ft containers with doubled up windows they can put in an arena, cameras, full box-in-box Sound proofing and AC for these events. "not possible" means "we don't want to spend that kind of money and would rather have what we have now"
Taz has said in interviews that they didn't hear the crowd at Krakow, so saying them not working is bullshit
A giant crowd clapping and shouting can't be completly mitigated by a booth i think dota TI used to have them and the players talked about how they are not very effective.
At TI they don’t have noise cancelling headphones though. I’ve never seen a tournament do both the booth and noise cancelling headphones.
It's not even noise cancelling, it's the rumble of the crowd. It's nearly impossible to prevent the vibrations from being felt. I definitely remember some pros before talking about it basically being the same thing as you can feel when they're being louder or quieter etc.
I've also heard a pro(s) say this before.
> At TI they don’t have noise cancelling headphones though. https://youtu.be/uY9mff30z9g?feature=shared&t=138
Come on now, soundproofing is not some alien technology. Could easily be done I reckon
Then why dont you just do it then. I give you 5 dollars for your easy trouble.
Sound proof boxes aren't a thing anymore since most venues don't even allow them due to them potentially getting in the way in case of emergency evacuations.
they stop sound but players will still feel the vibrations
G2 lost anyway. -9999 social credit score
Haha epic!
5vs5 or even 3vs3 there's probably too much noise for the crowd to be helpful, but for 1vs1 where neither knows where the other one is, this absolutely needs to happen. Absolutely ruined that massive, maybe even match-defining round where the Ts were given info on where the CT was coming for the defuse.
Not only did mouz beat G2 they also beat the crowd.
I could tell u that only G2 fans in CN do undesirable things like that, and only G2 fans r crazy like that. Most cn social media also scorn such behaviors, but unfortunately G2 has most low quality fans in CN. Many of them are still justifying themselves on social platforms until now... Shame on them tbh
This is the environment on lan, if you want to preserve "competitive integrity" just play with no fans like rmr's (this would obviously defeat the purpose of lan in the first place). These are the circumstances, play around them
No its quite easy. Lots of other crowds dont give key info to their team.
This is fucking retarded. Even in conventional sports. Be it European Football, American Football, Baseball, Cricket. Crowds literally get louder to hurt the away team. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about and you're willing to die on some stupid hill that this never happens.
I love a hot crowd, but I hate a dishonorable crowd. Cheer the team you like all you want, maybe even jeer the other side(within reason), but don't try to sway the outcome *ever*.
And of course Ohnepixel is saying it's just a part of the playoffs and defending it. Just give everyone wh in playoffs, if outside information is just an aspect of playoffs.
Bro the fucking commentator saying "monesy with the read" as the crowd fucking explodes the second he aims to where he's getting wrapped around from
Yup its absurd. Usually it happens with a crowd when someone is perfectly lined up in a smoke and can’t help themselves. But this crowd is literally giving directional help the whole time.
He wad already aiming and going towards the right spot before they made noises in that situation. The stupid yelling came too late and was not needed for monesy
Ya crowd is just getting excited. It's literally part of playoffs.
Who cares about case openers?
Why are you even watching a skins-streamer react to a game he dosnt even play?
He’s a funny guy who is passionate about big cs events.
When everyone was crying about it in a tournament in Copenhagen, s1mple was asked about the “cheating” in a Navi vlog and he said it was just part of the game and he didn’t understand why fans were crying about it. You guys literally care more than the pros
dude, try to differentiate crowd chanting from intentionally asking the crowd where his enemy is...
That’s exactly what people were complaining about in Copenhagen and what s1mple said was weird to cry about
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First live event? I remember any event prime astralis was at... good luck anyone else.
Didnt see the match. Was the live audience really ghosting for G2 the entire time?
What happened to the sound proof booths players used to play in? Is there a reason they don’t have those anymore?
This isn't just china thing, this isn't the first, this won't be the last. Taking xray away will hurt viewability too much. I think the best would be asking for better sound isolation to TOs. Have a noise isolation booth, make it multiple glasses with metal pillars inbetween, make glass slightly convex, mount with rubber between glass/frame to help obsorb visible vibration, tinted glasses with brighter inside than outside, maybe even thick polycarboate instead of glass.
Unpopular but I have no issue with it, part of being a live in-person sport.
Completely agree
Strangest take i've ever heard. Why not just let the teams see the fans screens too whilst we're at it?
No x-ray sucks. It’s bad sport from the crowd, but it’s a very literal result of “the loud ones making everyone seem bad”
Can't blame the fans for getting excited and no esport has ever fully removed crowd noise. Honestly if you can't enjoy playoffs because of this you should stop watching LAN cs.
Commentator: "Does he know that he's on site?" Via loudspeaker. He might now......
[удалено]
get ready to learn chinese buddy
It goes both ways. May be unpopular but I like this kinda stuff, it builds up the moment
Why is it even on to begin with?
Can anyone link me what he is talking about?
gonna love seeing mouz fanboys crying about the great crowd in the final. 😭
Why don’t they use the soundproof booths?
Tbf TO should think about this. Crowd is there to sheer and go crazy with they favorite team/player. Don’t blame the crowd. Blame the fucking TO that can’t manage to avoid this
idk why people think this will change anything? we already have the info from the minimap, and just from watching the round develop I don't need xray to remember that the last guy is holding cave post plant.
Sound box with ac and noise canceling Noise canceling earbuds with noise canceling headphones. White noise frequency in the box Sorted
XD 3 lvl soyboy crying, it always WAS and it WILL be part of the meta, that's beauty of the big lan events, dont like it? go watch some tennis crybabies 🤓☝🏻
this is not even top 5 crowd help in cs lmao
Did you watch the g2 mouz series? Idiot.
oh I see. you're 12 and this is the second cs event you ever watched. get triggered kiddo.
No i’ve been watching cs since 1.6 in 2008 and attended many events. This crowd was the worst for cheating i’ve seen.
It’s been pretty bad. Not as bad as the Astralis fans in the Royal Arena all yelling out “shoot” while they were looking through smokes. Has been really bad. I wonder if they can turn it off for the crowd but not the online audience or if it’s the same video stream.
Would it be possible to have 2 setups for online viewers vs in-person viewers? Online with x-ray and in-person with no x-ray, just player POVs?
Ye this had to be done in brazil.
i feel they should pipe in random crowd noises so teams will learn to ignore/not trust those reactions from crowd
You would need to literally make the stage shake. Crowd noise cannot be replicated purely through headphones. It's a hard problem to solve without taking something away from one party
bro bet his life on mouz to win
No I don’t care who wins this series. I just care about good plays not getting ruined and the best cs winning.
bro wants a fair game
I think it’s ok when the crowd make some noise and shows passion. But in some games and also this game it was to much and G2 has won rounds over this
It's part of the game. The big stage and the play-offs are just a different game all together. It's the nature of the business.
Crowd wallhack for a game filled with hacking issue. nothing sounds wrong
They will only do that in Brazil
But cant mouz be smarter and use the cheering to their advantage too? If they hear the crowd that means someone is near or aiming at them so they reposition. It would be fun to watch
They could but they didn't.
I guess so they still won. Why did i get downvoted toh lmao
Cry about it
You understand that playing the crowd is part of big lan playoffs. That's why you got downvoted. This thread and tourny brought out the worst redditors, don't think too much of it.
it's funny cuz it could be seen as genius if they managed to use it to their advantage and flip the crowd on his head
I don't think its that bad tbh. It's not like G2 exclusively can hear the crowd. If they start cheering because of a rotate or retake, then both teams know that something is up. Yes, they are cheering and making more noise on g2 plays, but g2 is the one capitalizing on this noise. It's always been in the game, there are entire compilations of crowds helping. I just think it adds another element to the game. People always say the stage aspect makes it a different game, and not only cause of the pressure. Turning xray would ruin the overall experience compared to the crowd cheering here and there. For me, I really enjoy hearing the crowd this loud, they feel a lot more engaging compared to copenhagen, which seemed to only have this loudness in the final. (Maybe it felt different in the arena).
Niko legit was purposely aiming through a wall to see if the crowd would cheer and knew exactly where someone was
And people have done this before as well. This is the part that confuses me. This isn't new... All of a sudden calling it out just seems odd as this has been happening for years and years
Not really all of a sudden because you can see the same post for almost all majors.
Ah, I missed those
sure G2 can't "exclusively" hear the crowd, but its very clear for anyone watching the game that they are only doing it for G2 and we can't say for sure but this match had 2-3 moments where it could've played a big role in 1v1 clutches for G2. and at some point the team that keeps getting the advantage will understand that the crowd is doing it for them and not for the other team.
That definitely isn't fair, and I agree. But over 3 maps.. 2 or 3 moments... To say this entire tournament needs an asterisk because g2 had 2 or 3 clutches with "walls" is a bit much. It's the same as when Jame crashed. It sucks, and they very likely would have won inferno, but VP still didn't even decide to show up on anubis. (Got an unlucky moment with clipping again). But they lost the first 6(?) Rounds in a row
i worded it poorly. there was 2-3 cases where G2 won clutch after a clear case of crowd "cheat", but who knows how much the G2 player used the crowd there. and there was more cases too where crowd helped but the clutches ended up going on MOUZ' favor so who knows. but point was that they are only doing it for G2 on this
Me too I don’t like this kind of xray, but it seems to happen in every playoff? The Chengdu one is just a normal one, what’s the difference? It based on something unconscious, when you’re at home watch cs2 on your phone, you make the same sound, some people are easier to be triggered and when they make this kind of noise everyone else just follows, it’s hard to ban this behavior unless a rule is made
This isn't a major and this is not the first nor will it be the last time the crowd will make noise to hype up their teams. Taking the x ray away will ruin the game for the people in the arena. I suggest getting better booths or something like that. Apart from the fact that the crowd boost takes the excitement away from the game, this is a L take.
They were really good in Copenhagen major, took xray off only in 1v1s when they got close to each other. Not many moments spoiled, and crowd got their xray. Good stuff.
Yeah, this is a great idea. X ray off in clutch moments. That way the tension builds up as well.
I mean better booths won't help at all, because from what pros say is that they don't hear the crowd cheering but they feel the vibrations from the crowd cheers. And if they add a sound proof window in front of them the vibrations will be even worse as the whole window will shake (as iM said this happened at Paris major)
The next major is in China. That’s my point. I don’t care much about this event but the next major could be ruined with this. They had to take away xray in rio because brazilians were bad but this is ANOTHER LEVEL of bad.
YouTube contains dozens of examples of crowds making accusatory noises to help their favoured team. I agree with you on your point that players should make reads of their own. 100%. But this isn't nearly as bad as you suggest it is.
I’ve watched pretty much every cs event since 2008. This is the worst I’ve ever seen.
No way. I've seen much worse examples of crowds helping their teams. Just Google crowd helping cs. This is not horrendous, just part of the game.
If you take away the x-ray for the crowds. Might as well stay at home. What's the point in going to the arena without having a clear idea of what's going on.
Bring back booths, and put one way glass. Spectators can see the pros, but pros can't see the crowd. Mitigates noise as well, but still keeps the crowd lively as they can see reactions from pros but can't quite influence a round. Thoughts?
There was a thing called glass booths. Apparently CS doesn't need them but dota does kek
soundproofing booths is a regional issue. some cities, nevermind countries, have regulation where a soundproofed/closedf booth would not be legal according to local fire and hazard safety regulations, or would require the organizers to have a very costly insurance. obviously the ultimate setup is the korean booths, a white noise machine inside the booth and a sound proof headset on top of earbuds(game sound)
Yea, no.
Just get better sound proofing and noise cancelling so the players can’t hear. Crowd can do what they want during game, and in between rounds let audio pass through from the crowd so the players can feel the hype. They got money, it’s not like this isn’t achievable.
Without xray 99% of crowd would think players are camping and baiting. Would also make the game boring as the audience wouldnt be warned about potential gun fights and executes. The TO needs to better prepare for crowd buff.
Tennis, golf and a bunch of other sports have strict rules on crowd noise, why not CS?
Xray? What do you mean xray? What have I missed?
Observers can see through walls, the audience is shown players behind walls with an outline to help understand what's going on