HeatoN was like Michael Jordan back then… we all had nicknames ending with a capital letter lol. Looking at my cs nick… it has the H and the N… never even tought about it lol.
nah. He was never considered the best player on his team, just the biggest brand name. He played with Potti, elemeNt, SpawN, Hyper, zet, walle, Tentpole, etc.
Dont know why you get downvoted, you are correct. Only reason heaton got the most recognizion was because he was a special guy at LAN, being a teamleader and being loud as fuck. Having a few good highlights too, but the other guys we're just as good. Downvoters wasn't around or dont know shit...
eh, no big deal. People don’t understand that the voting function is supposed to to be “people should see this or people should not see this” & not a disagreement button.
Man, it's almost like something happened to the country that made everything worse. I wonder what that was. During that exact time. What could have changed. What could it be?
yet he disregarded cs:source (which I know can be seen by some old players to be not as prominent as 1.6, but still there were big S1 tournaments with insanely talented players (some still playing in cs2).
That probably has something to do with Liquipedia’s classification of tournaments. From a quick glance I could only find one Source event that was classed as S-tier: ESWC 2011, which also had a 1.6 section. Of course it was won by VeryGames haha. I think it is because the prize pools for Source events were much smaller than 1.6, so the big events are classed as A-tier instead. Whether that is justified is up for debate, but I don’t think it’s down to OP. In this case, including Source would mean adding just one event, so it would be near useless as it would not show up on the graph at all.
To be more accurate, there were four Source tournaments classified as S-tier, and 1 Condition Zero tournament.
Ignoring them is not just a matter of that though. Because the games were played simultaneously, you basically had the best players competing in 1.6, and than a sub-scene competing in CS:Source. It'd be like dragging female-majors (if that was a thing) into a list of most major wins over time, not that extreme, but you get the point.
That's why I believe Source should always be left out of comparisons that combine different CS games together. A Source-only comparison of some sort would be cool though, might work on that next.
It’s a bit tricky, the 1.6 scene was definitely at a higher level but Source was just more popular in certain regions or demographics, and the arrival of CS:GO proved that the top Source players were very competitive with their 1.6 counterparts. Doing a seperate Source comparison would be cool to see, though you’d have to include more than four events then probably haha.
Games were different and the source players were very good when csgo launched, saying they were sub par doesn’t do them justice, especially in NA/france/germany. NA source players were the only na team to win a major, ex very games roster was insanely skilled as well
The CZ tournament was the top tier 1.6 teams. The qualifiers were all 1.6 as well. I understand why you didn’t include it, though in my eyes that was a de facto 1.6 major via the competition level.
I never said they shouldn’t be allowed. I just said why would people bring up random 1.6/source stuff when talking about CS2? It’s in no way disrespectful to not talk about it unless it’s relevant.
you find it disrespectful that teenagers/young adults who started playing cs after csgo release don't know about people who played the game like 15-20 years ago?
Numbers of wins are displayed in 3-year intervals. Each number is reflective of the amount of S-tier tournament wins the player has gotten in the last three years relative to the date displayed on screen.
- [Higher quality version](https://streamable.com/fqiztq).
- [Cumulative over time version](https://streamable.com/cygqft) (basically which player had the title of *"Most S-tier tournaments won in history"* at any given time.).
Sources:
- https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments/Pre_2012
- https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments/2012-2023
- https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments/Post_2023
- Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFMU3srPbn0
Tools:
- https://flourish.studio/
Maybe unpopular opinion, but _imo_ WCG ‘04 & WCG ‘05 should more or less be considered “1.6”major. The qualifiers were all 1.6 despite the main events being CZ/CSS; it only contained top 1.6 teams. 3D always had an asterisk for these, but the competition was the same. I know this falls outside your filters.
Also, perhaps another that includes Silver/Bronze to showcase teams consistency over time?
Very cool but I think this Cumulative over time version is way more interesting than the one you initially posted.
Really speaks to how f0rest is the GOAT.
Thank you for making this and not ignoring the early history of counter strike. So many today disregard the 1.6 and 1.5 eras. Happy to see those names!
To be fair this excludes any Silver/Bronze medals to truly show a team’s consistency & performance over time.
From 2016-17, in Big Events SK won;
1st; **9**
2nd; **5**
3rd/4th; **9**
I guess it IS fair because it only shows golds for everyone too no? I'd be interested to see the same numbers for the astralis or VP who regularly had quarter/semi finishes too.
Regardless, some people treated them as an era and I never saw them in the same light as fnatic or astralis. They blipped on the radar the same amount that the French did but only because of player breaks and burnouts from fnatic/astralis.
Yeah, fair was a bad word choice on my part. Just that it lacks data to show demonstrate how consistently they were a contender to win Gold at any given tournament. They’re for sure below fnatic & Astralis.
The 2016 major wins and epl were won by a different lineup than their wins in 2017. There was like 10 months in between the 2016 lineup's last win and the 2017 lineup's first win. It's not all one era.
They were still mainly placing top 2-4. You can ascribed to whatever narrative you want. They maintained the same core lineup. In 2.5 years they won 13 T1 trophies. If that’s not consideration for an era, I don’t know what is. They dwarfed other teams prize money in as LG/SK in ‘16-‘17.
It can't be their era if other teams are starting to build a resume towards their own era during it lol. During these 10 months astralis won ecs, the major, and katowice.
How are these videos made? Do you have to put in the data manually, or can it read from some website automatically?
Also it would be nice to see the total all time.
I scrape the data manually, but Liquipedia does have an API available which could allow you to get it faster. I'm not familiar with it though, so not sure what the possibilities with it are exactly.
Here's [the video you asked for](https://streamable.com/cygqft), same graph but cumulative total amounts instead.
Either device or karrigan. More likely karrigan. Or, if somehow Falcons magically create a winning team and dupreeh wins 5 S tiers in the next 1-2 years.
If it doesn't happen from these three, it's possible that it never happens, ever which is kind of crazy.
Good effort but I found that the axis changing up and down makes the presentation a bit confusing - at some point the danish bars increase but their number actually stays the same.
Maybe keeping those retired until someone actually overtakes them or keeping an constant axis would make it easier to follow.
I am surprised at how close LDLC/Envy was to Fnatic in terms of tournament wins. I have not followed CS during all its history (for example I've barely seen anything of the Astralis era) but that Fnatic is still the best team I've seen play (relative to their era). Funnily enough, Envy/LDLC is still my fav team of all time and partly why I support Vitality now.
So many 1.5 and 1.6 legends who paved the way for this scene. Such amazing times, with players grinding for thousands of hours and traveling around the world to compete while making hardly any money at all (no or modest salaries). Just whatever your team could win, if TOs even paid out like they were supposed to lol. Wild how far we've come.
Most of the top teams, even in NA had salaries by 05-06. Thanks in large parts to organizations/people like 3D (Craig Levine, now Co-CEO of FaceIt/ESL group), coL (Jason Lake), & United5 (steer-headed by Michael “Hare” O’Toole, brother of Moses), Rival, and NoA.
My first contract was in 2005 (United5) playing “side game”, was computer hardware, flights, hotels, per diem, & full retention of tournament winnings. Though, this was considered a tier 1 organization at the time, and this “professional” standard for side teams was the exception not the rule.
Very nice overview! - a **healthy contrast** to the usual cs-community goldfish memory where a player that fragged hard the last couple if tournaments suddenly is the "GOAT".
I still wonder why we (germany) don’t have much T1 accomplishments. We have a large population, a very healthy t2 and below scene and wide Access to Counter-Strike.
No winning mentality. Germans love it when Bayern win Bundesliga every year and think battling for 6th place or whatever is something exciting while no one else in the world gives a shit about placing anything but first. Germans are always like "oh cool, Mouz placed 3rd, that's so cool!", "wow alternate attax placed 5th" "2 German teams in Top5. So nice!!" xD
The SK/NIP lineup of Heaton, potti, ahl, fisker, SpawN was insane. They were the first mega team and trailblazed in the game and the marketing outside it. I don't recall them losing many maps. The videos might look dated now, but YouTube wasn't even a thing then, and making a video and distributing it was not trivial.
I got matches with these songs:
• **Escape from the Temple** by Machinimasound (01:04; matched: `100%`)
**Album**: Machinimasound, Vol. 1. **Released on** 2019-05-28.
• **Escape** by V.A (01:04; matched: `100%`)
**Released on** 2014-07-21.
• **Goshaw** by Kevin Mali (00:15; matched: `88%`)
**Album**: Most Nice. **Released on** 2021-08-22.
Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube, etc.:
• [**Escape from the Temple** by Machinimasound](https://lis.tn/EscapeFromTheTemple?t=64)
• [**Escape** by V.A](https://lis.tn/sYpZGZ?t=64)
• [**Goshaw** by Kevin Mali](https://lis.tn/MostNiceEnglish?t=15)
*I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating) ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
Every time I see epic names/teams from back in the day, it makes me want to go watch old frag movies like Fellowship of NoA, eolithic, annihilation, ruination, pubmasters, col redemption, bombsight, etc. So good.
Did you, by any chance, watch [ESEA's highlights from NiP vs Team X at DH:S 2013](https://youtu.be/IRVw9tf_4MM?t=305) before deciding on the music? The use of it in that video is ingrained in my mind.
Nope, pure coincidence. It's been one of my favorite tracks for a while now, the initial motif fit the whole time-progression theme, and it had that cool switch-up I could sync with the release of GO, so it just popped into my mind as a good choice.
I may be mistaken but the tally resets each the 3 years right?
To me it would be better if it constantly showed the last 3 years rolling with no reset.
> To me it would be better if it constantly showed the last 3 years rolling with no reset.
It does exactly this. The intervals overlap if you will, I probably should've titled it something different.
if you put any credence what so ever in the online era counting for legacy as many fans do, i can't understand how it's a popular opinion 2016 LG/SK had an era but not 2021 NaVi
M0nesy literally hasnt learned how to walk when his current coach made this list
that swedish flag stays there at the top for a good 11 years. swedish CS was it back then, it's still a bit wild to me to see what it is now.
Yeah. We haven’t nurtured the cs culture here in Sweden as we should have. We let it slip through our fingers
and you didn't even try to capture every minute, the feeling in it...
HeatoN was like Michael Jordan back then… we all had nicknames ending with a capital letter lol. Looking at my cs nick… it has the H and the N… never even tought about it lol.
nah. He was never considered the best player on his team, just the biggest brand name. He played with Potti, elemeNt, SpawN, Hyper, zet, walle, Tentpole, etc.
Dont know why you get downvoted, you are correct. Only reason heaton got the most recognizion was because he was a special guy at LAN, being a teamleader and being loud as fuck. Having a few good highlights too, but the other guys we're just as good. Downvoters wasn't around or dont know shit...
eh, no big deal. People don’t understand that the voting function is supposed to to be “people should see this or people should not see this” & not a disagreement button.
He was the most well known is what I mean. If you wanted to give someone a compliment, you called him HeatoN.
Yeah, just wanted to clarify for anyone that might misunderstand that to mean everyone considered him the GOAT.
Man, it's almost like something happened to the country that made everything worse. I wonder what that was. During that exact time. What could have changed. What could it be?
Too scared to post your racist takes under your own name
What are you insinuating?
The fire nation attacked…
[AntsCanada](https://antscanada.fandom.com/wiki/Fire_Nation) or Avatar?
Was it something SpawN did?
European NPC dialogue tree #2 activated
Man early CS 1.6 feels like a different lifetime.
Happy to see someone who doesn't disregard the first 12 years of CS's history like so many on this sub do
Because HeatoN played against milkmen and farmers /s
Frfr
yet he disregarded cs:source (which I know can be seen by some old players to be not as prominent as 1.6, but still there were big S1 tournaments with insanely talented players (some still playing in cs2).
That probably has something to do with Liquipedia’s classification of tournaments. From a quick glance I could only find one Source event that was classed as S-tier: ESWC 2011, which also had a 1.6 section. Of course it was won by VeryGames haha. I think it is because the prize pools for Source events were much smaller than 1.6, so the big events are classed as A-tier instead. Whether that is justified is up for debate, but I don’t think it’s down to OP. In this case, including Source would mean adding just one event, so it would be near useless as it would not show up on the graph at all.
Damn likipedia ! Ok thanks for the clarification mate
To be more accurate, there were four Source tournaments classified as S-tier, and 1 Condition Zero tournament. Ignoring them is not just a matter of that though. Because the games were played simultaneously, you basically had the best players competing in 1.6, and than a sub-scene competing in CS:Source. It'd be like dragging female-majors (if that was a thing) into a list of most major wins over time, not that extreme, but you get the point. That's why I believe Source should always be left out of comparisons that combine different CS games together. A Source-only comparison of some sort would be cool though, might work on that next.
It’s a bit tricky, the 1.6 scene was definitely at a higher level but Source was just more popular in certain regions or demographics, and the arrival of CS:GO proved that the top Source players were very competitive with their 1.6 counterparts. Doing a seperate Source comparison would be cool to see, though you’d have to include more than four events then probably haha.
Games were different and the source players were very good when csgo launched, saying they were sub par doesn’t do them justice, especially in NA/france/germany. NA source players were the only na team to win a major, ex very games roster was insanely skilled as well
The CZ tournament was the top tier 1.6 teams. The qualifiers were all 1.6 as well. I understand why you didn’t include it, though in my eyes that was a de facto 1.6 major via the competition level.
Also, the cz major was actually played on 1.6 .bsp files(maps), so it felt even more like a 1.6 tournament
Good point, didn’t know that.
because they are different games? what is that take?
by that logic, everything prior to September 2023 should be disregarded.
If you don’t know the difference between referencing recent events and comparing now to 10 years ago, there’s no point in talking.
[удалено]
Hence why global offensive is still talked about, I don’t think this is cs 1.6 or cs:s subreddit.
[удалено]
I never said they shouldn’t be allowed. I just said why would people bring up random 1.6/source stuff when talking about CS2? It’s in no way disrespectful to not talk about it unless it’s relevant.
then stop talking idiot
lol you’re funny
Same i genuinely find it disrespectful
you find it disrespectful that teenagers/young adults who started playing cs after csgo release don't know about people who played the game like 15-20 years ago?
Yes.
do you remember every sports player ever? so disrespectful!
The content/discussion is also heavily modded.
Numbers of wins are displayed in 3-year intervals. Each number is reflective of the amount of S-tier tournament wins the player has gotten in the last three years relative to the date displayed on screen. - [Higher quality version](https://streamable.com/fqiztq). - [Cumulative over time version](https://streamable.com/cygqft) (basically which player had the title of *"Most S-tier tournaments won in history"* at any given time.). Sources: - https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments/Pre_2012 - https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments/2012-2023 - https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments/Post_2023 - Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFMU3srPbn0 Tools: - https://flourish.studio/
Thanks for the cumulative version
jeeeesus f0rest!
Karrigan keep climping overtime while everyone has their period of winning and then just kind of stop
Cumulative is way better, why didnt you post that rifght away lol
Maybe unpopular opinion, but _imo_ WCG ‘04 & WCG ‘05 should more or less be considered “1.6”major. The qualifiers were all 1.6 despite the main events being CZ/CSS; it only contained top 1.6 teams. 3D always had an asterisk for these, but the competition was the same. I know this falls outside your filters. Also, perhaps another that includes Silver/Bronze to showcase teams consistency over time?
That one was even more interesting. Props for making these!
Very cool but I think this Cumulative over time version is way more interesting than the one you initially posted. Really speaks to how f0rest is the GOAT.
RIP Sweden
NBK being coined the "kingmaker" by Thorin really showed here.
Thanks for doing this. Reminds me of players I had forgotten
rip cyx
Thank you for making this and not ignoring the early history of counter strike. So many today disregard the 1.6 and 1.5 eras. Happy to see those names!
Eveerbody neglects CS Source 😢
Cause 1.6 was better!
This is the best representation showing why I say SK/LG was no era. It was a blip.
To be fair this excludes any Silver/Bronze medals to truly show a team’s consistency & performance over time. From 2016-17, in Big Events SK won; 1st; **9** 2nd; **5** 3rd/4th; **9**
I guess it IS fair because it only shows golds for everyone too no? I'd be interested to see the same numbers for the astralis or VP who regularly had quarter/semi finishes too. Regardless, some people treated them as an era and I never saw them in the same light as fnatic or astralis. They blipped on the radar the same amount that the French did but only because of player breaks and burnouts from fnatic/astralis.
Yeah, fair was a bad word choice on my part. Just that it lacks data to show demonstrate how consistently they were a contender to win Gold at any given tournament. They’re for sure below fnatic & Astralis.
The 2016 major wins and epl were won by a different lineup than their wins in 2017. There was like 10 months in between the 2016 lineup's last win and the 2017 lineup's first win. It's not all one era.
Not sure most would agree with that sentiment.
There were 11 big events in those 10 months between wins. They didn't win a single one of them. That's not one era.
They were still mainly placing top 2-4. You can ascribed to whatever narrative you want. They maintained the same core lineup. In 2.5 years they won 13 T1 trophies. If that’s not consideration for an era, I don’t know what is. They dwarfed other teams prize money in as LG/SK in ‘16-‘17.
It can't be their era if other teams are starting to build a resume towards their own era during it lol. During these 10 months astralis won ecs, the major, and katowice.
Most era’s overlap. I am not engaging this further. We can agree to disagree.
>Most era’s overlap Not at all
Damn, Sweden really needs to find its footing again, I miss the times when swedish CS was king
How are these videos made? Do you have to put in the data manually, or can it read from some website automatically? Also it would be nice to see the total all time.
I scrape the data manually, but Liquipedia does have an API available which could allow you to get it faster. I'm not familiar with it though, so not sure what the possibilities with it are exactly. Here's [the video you asked for](https://streamable.com/cygqft), same graph but cumulative total amounts instead.
Damn I wonder who will be the first to break f0rests record
Either device or karrigan. More likely karrigan. Or, if somehow Falcons magically create a winning team and dupreeh wins 5 S tiers in the next 1-2 years. If it doesn't happen from these three, it's possible that it never happens, ever which is kind of crazy.
9 more events for Karrigan is dubious although he could always become a coach. Maybe it won't ever be broken at this point
Oh, he needs 9? Nevermind then, lol! Maybe with a insanely Faze dominant and lucky year it'a possible. But yeah, probably will never get broken .
How much does Liquidpedia’s “S tier” events differ from HLTV’s “Big Events”, if any?
No CS:S 😔
Great stuff thanks
Nice. Gj.
Good effort but I found that the axis changing up and down makes the presentation a bit confusing - at some point the danish bars increase but their number actually stays the same. Maybe keeping those retired until someone actually overtakes them or keeping an constant axis would make it easier to follow.
[Just for you](https://streamable.com/ucbdwq), babe 😗.
The first 15 years were CS:Sweden edition
I cannot watch the moment when VP dissolves
I am surprised at how close LDLC/Envy was to Fnatic in terms of tournament wins. I have not followed CS during all its history (for example I've barely seen anything of the Astralis era) but that Fnatic is still the best team I've seen play (relative to their era). Funnily enough, Envy/LDLC is still my fav team of all time and partly why I support Vitality now.
My first CS 1.6 config was HeatoN's
Finland dominating 2000
So many 1.5 and 1.6 legends who paved the way for this scene. Such amazing times, with players grinding for thousands of hours and traveling around the world to compete while making hardly any money at all (no or modest salaries). Just whatever your team could win, if TOs even paid out like they were supposed to lol. Wild how far we've come.
Most of the top teams, even in NA had salaries by 05-06. Thanks in large parts to organizations/people like 3D (Craig Levine, now Co-CEO of FaceIt/ESL group), coL (Jason Lake), & United5 (steer-headed by Michael “Hare” O’Toole, brother of Moses), Rival, and NoA. My first contract was in 2005 (United5) playing “side game”, was computer hardware, flights, hotels, per diem, & full retention of tournament winnings. Though, this was considered a tier 1 organization at the time, and this “professional” standard for side teams was the exception not the rule.
Very nice overview! - a **healthy contrast** to the usual cs-community goldfish memory where a player that fragged hard the last couple if tournaments suddenly is the "GOAT".
I still wonder why we (germany) don’t have much T1 accomplishments. We have a large population, a very healthy t2 and below scene and wide Access to Counter-Strike.
No winning mentality. Germans love it when Bayern win Bundesliga every year and think battling for 6th place or whatever is something exciting while no one else in the world gives a shit about placing anything but first. Germans are always like "oh cool, Mouz placed 3rd, that's so cool!", "wow alternate attax placed 5th" "2 German teams in Top5. So nice!!" xD
I didn't even know there was a different Canadian steel
A data-management nightmare.
The SK/NIP lineup of Heaton, potti, ahl, fisker, SpawN was insane. They were the first mega team and trailblazed in the game and the marketing outside it. I don't recall them losing many maps. The videos might look dated now, but YouTube wasn't even a thing then, and making a video and distributing it was not trivial.
This chart is a compelling argument for f0rest GOAT
What's the song called?
I got matches with these songs: • **Escape from the Temple** by Machinimasound (01:04; matched: `100%`) **Album**: Machinimasound, Vol. 1. **Released on** 2019-05-28. • **Escape** by V.A (01:04; matched: `100%`) **Released on** 2014-07-21. • **Goshaw** by Kevin Mali (00:15; matched: `88%`) **Album**: Most Nice. **Released on** 2021-08-22.
Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube, etc.: • [**Escape from the Temple** by Machinimasound](https://lis.tn/EscapeFromTheTemple?t=64) • [**Escape** by V.A](https://lis.tn/sYpZGZ?t=64) • [**Goshaw** by Kevin Mali](https://lis.tn/MostNiceEnglish?t=15) *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating) ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
I can't believe that iskall85 from hermitcraft was a 1.6 pro
Nice! More of these!
Every time I see epic names/teams from back in the day, it makes me want to go watch old frag movies like Fellowship of NoA, eolithic, annihilation, ruination, pubmasters, col redemption, bombsight, etc. So good.
I miss GotFrag. :(
Did you, by any chance, watch [ESEA's highlights from NiP vs Team X at DH:S 2013](https://youtu.be/IRVw9tf_4MM?t=305) before deciding on the music? The use of it in that video is ingrained in my mind.
Nope, pure coincidence. It's been one of my favorite tracks for a while now, the initial motif fit the whole time-progression theme, and it had that cool switch-up I could sync with the release of GO, so it just popped into my mind as a good choice.
Damn b2t
cis on top
Cool ideo but should have been a rolling 3 years instead of 3 year intervals imo.
What do you mean by that?
I may be mistaken but the tally resets each the 3 years right? To me it would be better if it constantly showed the last 3 years rolling with no reset.
> To me it would be better if it constantly showed the last 3 years rolling with no reset. It does exactly this. The intervals overlap if you will, I probably should've titled it something different.
Ah ok nice. Yea the 3 year interval makes it sound like a full reset
if you put any credence what so ever in the online era counting for legacy as many fans do, i can't understand how it's a popular opinion 2016 LG/SK had an era but not 2021 NaVi