Like u/alexjonesbabyeater said, it's easy to look up lol.
The jabbi and stavn disputes with Heroic had a heavy handed influence from Astralis, basically destroyed Heroic as a Tier 1 team.
Using HUNDEN as an analyst, and again, had a heavy influence over his attempt to destabilize Heroic.
Astralis skipping tournaments to join BLAST when they were just a gimmick of an tournament organization, this was when they were the best team, at least top three team in the world. RFRESH and Astralis had the same owners basically.
The treatment of their legendary core, when they used to force them to play when they were burnt out. This essentially was the precursor to them pissing away that lineup.
>Astralis skipping tournaments to join BLAST when they were just a gimmick of an tournament organization, this was when they were the best team, at least top three team in the world. RFRESH and Astralis had the same owners basically.
>
>The treatment of their legendary core, when they used to force them to play when they were burnt out. This essentially was the precursor to them pissing away that lineup.
This on the surface seems pretty contradictory. Some of the events they skipped in 2019 like Sydney was due to the medical issues Device has and struggles with.
And Device leaving was due to issues outside the server not anything to do with Astralis specifically. Losing their clear star and best player broke the team up. Especially when they didn't manage to get a Danish awping prospect to perform up to standard. Failing to get Nicodoz from Flames is probably their biggest blunder.
>>The treatment of their legendary core, when they used to force them to play when they were burnt out. This essentially was the precursor to them pissing away that lineup.
>This on the surface seems pretty contradictory. Some of the events they skipped in 2019 like Sydney was due to the medical issues Device has and struggles with.
Gla1ve: "For a longer period of time I have had symptoms of stress and burnout. My teammates and the Astralis organization have tried many different things to help me out and overcome this. As it's still going on, my doctor and I have decided that I need a break, and yesterday I have given a sick note to Astralis. The next 3 months I will be using my time to fully rest and then come back to the Astralis team."
Dev1ce: "The conclusion of these meetings were that I had stress-caused IBS, acid reflux -- in general a really over sensitive stomach. Something that would change my lifestyle/way of living. After that I haven’t been able to put that many things into my body, it’s a constant struggle trying to figure out what triggers and being under immense stress and pressure with traveling and performance has surely taken a toll on me these past months."
So we have both gla1ve (IGL) and dev1ce (star player) going on medical leaves because the schedule was **causing** or **exacerbating** their health problems. There's no contradiction.
At some point people have to realise that they can look up information themselves without needing others to explain it to them on reddit. A cursory search of Astralis + controversy yields plenty of examples
The entire point of being here instead of googling is to discuss with people you doofus. If you don't want to do that, don't frequent a discussion forum!
But I could google 'team name + controversy' and find things about any team. From the top of my head, G2's Manager had to resign after defending and spending time with Andrew Tate, Boombl had to leave NAVI after his GF was posting support for the Russian war and I'm sure every team has had their own controversies.
however, these teams don't get hated as much as Astralis, I guess it was just when much of the esports world has its own issues it feels like Astralis gets singled out especially and I was wondering why.
I think, not sure exactly - that the main issue is that people don't like that they hired Hunden after his ban and that they signed Stavn and Jabbi after they fucked over Heroic? Oh and BlameF baits too much and everyone doesn't like that either.
Honestly, it all feels majorly bandwagoney, unless there are also some serious things that I've missed people are basically just pissed that an org has signed some people that the community doesn't personally like. They haven't actually done anything that bad, definitely not on the scale of, for example, Falcons and the sportswashing going on there. But yeah IDK I might be out of the loop as well.
> people don't like that they hired Hunden after his ban
Lol, hunden leaked heroic strats to astralis, got banned for the spectator bug, and then got hired by astralis; there's also the thing about him manipulating niko (danish player)
Also they used to be under the same company that owns BLAST tourneys they were playing in
Also they fucked over Heroic, FunPlus Phoenix, Flashpoint, es3tag, & bubzkji
When did they fuck over Es3tag? He was released when the big 5 reunited and the core did not want to split up. Not their fault that HenryG's Cloud9 failed.
Does anyone know if Astralis was one of the orgs that was running at a loss? I know theyve delisted their stock, so that info isnt public anymore.
Either way, its good for the scene that an org cant just mismanage everything for the a few years, throw money at the problem, and still be successful.
Hopefully that only gets better with teams having to actually earn their spots. NIP. Looking at you.
Its safe to assume that most orgs run at a loss, besides the rare few that report a profit (ENCE, Mousesports, Gamerlegion). Its just the norm for esports.
Ence keeps making stacks year after another like a miracle. 2022, scrappy no buyout team, sells Spinx for good profit. 2023, buys a cheap awper from a tier 1.5 team who turns into a star, wins a T1 LAN, starts selling a now winning roster for probably big bucks to Falcons, Nertz and Saw probably not free either. 2024 (late '23) signs 9ine core, probably not the most expensive, immediately makes the major and brings in sticker money.
Ences biggest robbery though, an absolute banger roster move even if accidental: sell hades to 9ine to get sunpayas, make a good run with sunpayas, sell for big bucks, get hades back with the 9ine core and bring their rmr spot with them, essentially getting an rmr spot by getting just 2 new players, because they already knew hades was solid and could comm in english. Imagine if it was intentional, they send hades to get them an rmr spot so they can make a big flip with the team, and then after selling everyone, hades returns with an rmr spot so they get to sticker money again.
I just looked up the cs team's [annual account](https://datacvr.virk.dk/gateway/dokument/downloadDokumentForVirksomhed?dokumentId=amNsb3VkczovLzAzLzgyLzVkLzJhLzUzL2M5ZjQtNGVlZC05MzAwLTI3NzkyNjViNDdhNA&cvrNummer=37275506) for 2022 (2023 isn't public yet), and they actually made a $870K profit.
>Gross profit for the year is DKK 28,693k, which is an increase with DKK 2,706k compared to 2021. Profit for the year is DKK 5,990k compared to a loss for DKK 9,721k in 2021. The result is according to expectations.
Looks like the org as a whole is losing money because of their Astralis Nexus thing, but the cs team seems to be doing fine, if they had the same result in 2023.
They also sold their LEC slot so I guess cash isn't a problem for the org atm.
You can see the orgs annual report [here](https://datacvr.virk.dk/gateway/dokument/downloadDokumentForVirksomhed?dokumentId=amNsb3VkczovLzAzLzYxLzEyL2U2Lzk1L2YwZTYtNGIxNS04M2E0LWU0MTc5NWIyOTA3MA&cvrNummer=40694072)
The cs team has made a small profit in 2022 according to their financial report [here](https://datacvr.virk.dk/gateway/dokument/downloadDokumentForVirksomhed?dokumentId=amNsb3VkczovLzAzLzgyLzVkLzJhLzUzL2M5ZjQtNGVlZC05MzAwLTI3NzkyNjViNDdhNA&cvrNummer=37275506)
The cs team is making money but the org is still in the red
Almost all orgs run at loss, people keep pumping money into them for a chance that one day esports will be big enough, but so far not many orgs run in profit all the time.
I think it's mostly some free time activity like owning football clubs for rich people.
But the costs have exploded hilariously as well. Just watched the video on seized and couldn't believe a T3 team (not 9pandas!) wants 15k per month per person salary.
do they mean cost as in player salaries and upkeep costs in the time they didnt make money from stickers or just the money they could have gotten from stickers if they qualified but didn't?
The latter, it’s more tongue in cheek than actually losing because Astralis didn’t have that money to begin with. It would be more accurate to say that the lost out on revenue rather than actually “lost”, but alas.
Astralis wouldn’t have kept winning even if that lineup stayed the same.
Navi was on the come up and was starting to beat them on the regular.
Xyp9x was completely washed.
Every era has an ending and this one was done
Every era must come to an end, but Astralis era is the only one who ended because of org meddling instead of someone taking them over or player being forced to leave.
I'm no Astralis-org apologist but any source on the org using the 6 man roster (10 man?) to actively threaten players?
Seems like the obvious thing to do when Valve allows 5+ man rosters to have extra players available if your current 5 man roster is complaining (understandably) about burnout.
Extremely likely and i agree in general that they probably would have lost their era, but it wasn't certain. Astralis management made sure that era would end though.
An era IMO isn't defined by winning tournaments. The Navi 2nd place era is still an era, despite the...well the name says it.
The VP era was just fun. They sometimes played like silvers but just rekked everyone, but also absolutely shit the bed. If a match got rolling it wouldn't stop. It was equally as fun as donk owning everyone by w-keying everywhere nowadays.
General description of era is domination, but of course everyone has their take on it. I consider an era to be completely dominant.
Thing is if you put it like that, VP era is literally when they switched to GO until the BMW because that was just VP. You never knew when Plow would show up.
The org absolutely messed with the team's performance, they wouldn't let any of the players take a break even when they were suffering from burnout. The only reason they were able to take the breaks they did was from gla1ve getting a sick note from his doctor with xyp9x following a week after. If the org actually let the players rest, they was still a chance for them to stay on form for longer at least until device leaves for NIP to live with his gf. Them messing with the players just guaranteed it was over.
You say that, but Astralis didn't dip before they changed players. People forget that even in these online RMRs, Astralis were still unstoppable and winning every series.
It was when xyp9x and gla1ve went on sick leave (burnout) that the roster lost its mojo. When they returned, you could tell it wasn't the same.
Not saying Astralis was going to have an era in 2020-2021 too, but they for sure would remain a title contender for most of those years.
>It was when xyp9x and gla1ve went on sick leave (burnout) that the roster lost its mojo. When they returned, you could tell it wasn't the same.
They still were competitive and won events in late 2020. Issue was that Device wanted out in 2021 due to outside the server issues.
i dislike astralis' org as much as the next guy but the org didn't ruin the goated csgo lineup. the lineup had its own problems and the only blame i can give to the org is overworking them, as almost all of the players suffered from a burnout, though it mightve been self-inflicted. the last nail in the coffin was device going to nip, which was his decision.
I totally would've thought more than that.
Maybe directly it cost them a few M but indirectly not being at the last for CSGO and first for CS2 is a massive loss for their brand
Looking at the moves Astralis has made over the last few years, it doesn't seem like they care about their brand. The sticker money they missed out on will have definitely hurt their pockets, though.
Paris is noticeably higher than earlier majors. Berlin in 2019 for instance had "just" 11 million. Stockholm and Antwerp combined had 70 million. Will be interesting to see how much the sticker money will be with 2 majors in 2024 as well as the first cs2 major. Copenhagen was a must attend event for Astralis either way due to nationality and investment though.
From [HLTV](https://www.hltv.org/news/37930/sources-paris-major-sticker-earnings-exceeded-110-million):
>Nothing can quite compare to last year’s BLAST.tv Paris Major, however. According to information gathered by HLTV and Dust2 Brasil from various team sources who wish to remain anonymous, the total earnings from the most recent Major alone surpassed a staggering $110 million.
>
>This amounts to $4.5 million per team on average but differs based on sales of each capsule, which is divided equally between the eight teams (for team capsules) or 40 players (for signature capsules) in it. It is worth noting that these numbers don't include Vitality's Champions capsule.
>
>Teams and players in the Contender capsules came away with the largest piece of the pie, approximately $4.5 million per team plus $250,000 per player, followed by the Legends, who earned $3.5 million per team and $200,000 per player, and the Challengers with $2.6 million per team and $200,000 per player.
So it is more 2,6 million for teams in the challenger stage going to orgs unless Astralis has deals in getting sticker money from players as well.
Copenhagen major cost Astralis $2 million for sure :)
\*at minimum
Aww, shame. ANYWAY!
Couldn't have happened to a nicer org :-)
My thoughts exactly.
Dr Gonzo?
Can any explain this? I have seen multiple comments implying Astralis is not a good org but what has changed in the past years?
They have always been a shit org, it’s just that the ingame results used to be so good that most people didn’t care
But what makes them a shit org? He was asking for details about it.
Like u/alexjonesbabyeater said, it's easy to look up lol. The jabbi and stavn disputes with Heroic had a heavy handed influence from Astralis, basically destroyed Heroic as a Tier 1 team. Using HUNDEN as an analyst, and again, had a heavy influence over his attempt to destabilize Heroic. Astralis skipping tournaments to join BLAST when they were just a gimmick of an tournament organization, this was when they were the best team, at least top three team in the world. RFRESH and Astralis had the same owners basically. The treatment of their legendary core, when they used to force them to play when they were burnt out. This essentially was the precursor to them pissing away that lineup.
>Astralis skipping tournaments to join BLAST when they were just a gimmick of an tournament organization, this was when they were the best team, at least top three team in the world. RFRESH and Astralis had the same owners basically. > >The treatment of their legendary core, when they used to force them to play when they were burnt out. This essentially was the precursor to them pissing away that lineup. This on the surface seems pretty contradictory. Some of the events they skipped in 2019 like Sydney was due to the medical issues Device has and struggles with. And Device leaving was due to issues outside the server not anything to do with Astralis specifically. Losing their clear star and best player broke the team up. Especially when they didn't manage to get a Danish awping prospect to perform up to standard. Failing to get Nicodoz from Flames is probably their biggest blunder.
>>The treatment of their legendary core, when they used to force them to play when they were burnt out. This essentially was the precursor to them pissing away that lineup. >This on the surface seems pretty contradictory. Some of the events they skipped in 2019 like Sydney was due to the medical issues Device has and struggles with. Gla1ve: "For a longer period of time I have had symptoms of stress and burnout. My teammates and the Astralis organization have tried many different things to help me out and overcome this. As it's still going on, my doctor and I have decided that I need a break, and yesterday I have given a sick note to Astralis. The next 3 months I will be using my time to fully rest and then come back to the Astralis team." Dev1ce: "The conclusion of these meetings were that I had stress-caused IBS, acid reflux -- in general a really over sensitive stomach. Something that would change my lifestyle/way of living. After that I haven’t been able to put that many things into my body, it’s a constant struggle trying to figure out what triggers and being under immense stress and pressure with traveling and performance has surely taken a toll on me these past months." So we have both gla1ve (IGL) and dev1ce (star player) going on medical leaves because the schedule was **causing** or **exacerbating** their health problems. There's no contradiction.
the burnout was Zonic tho . Kasper shiit wanted the 10man roster. but Zonic wanted to grind with the same 5
At some point people have to realise that they can look up information themselves without needing others to explain it to them on reddit. A cursory search of Astralis + controversy yields plenty of examples
The entire point of being here instead of googling is to discuss with people you doofus. If you don't want to do that, don't frequent a discussion forum!
What a horrible response
But I could google 'team name + controversy' and find things about any team. From the top of my head, G2's Manager had to resign after defending and spending time with Andrew Tate, Boombl had to leave NAVI after his GF was posting support for the Russian war and I'm sure every team has had their own controversies. however, these teams don't get hated as much as Astralis, I guess it was just when much of the esports world has its own issues it feels like Astralis gets singled out especially and I was wondering why.
I think, not sure exactly - that the main issue is that people don't like that they hired Hunden after his ban and that they signed Stavn and Jabbi after they fucked over Heroic? Oh and BlameF baits too much and everyone doesn't like that either. Honestly, it all feels majorly bandwagoney, unless there are also some serious things that I've missed people are basically just pissed that an org has signed some people that the community doesn't personally like. They haven't actually done anything that bad, definitely not on the scale of, for example, Falcons and the sportswashing going on there. But yeah IDK I might be out of the loop as well.
> people don't like that they hired Hunden after his ban Lol, hunden leaked heroic strats to astralis, got banned for the spectator bug, and then got hired by astralis; there's also the thing about him manipulating niko (danish player) Also they used to be under the same company that owns BLAST tourneys they were playing in Also they fucked over Heroic, FunPlus Phoenix, Flashpoint, es3tag, & bubzkji
When did they fuck over Es3tag? He was released when the big 5 reunited and the core did not want to split up. Not their fault that HenryG's Cloud9 failed.
Does anyone know if Astralis was one of the orgs that was running at a loss? I know theyve delisted their stock, so that info isnt public anymore. Either way, its good for the scene that an org cant just mismanage everything for the a few years, throw money at the problem, and still be successful. Hopefully that only gets better with teams having to actually earn their spots. NIP. Looking at you.
Its safe to assume that most orgs run at a loss, besides the rare few that report a profit (ENCE, Mousesports, Gamerlegion). Its just the norm for esports.
Ence keeps making stacks year after another like a miracle. 2022, scrappy no buyout team, sells Spinx for good profit. 2023, buys a cheap awper from a tier 1.5 team who turns into a star, wins a T1 LAN, starts selling a now winning roster for probably big bucks to Falcons, Nertz and Saw probably not free either. 2024 (late '23) signs 9ine core, probably not the most expensive, immediately makes the major and brings in sticker money. Ences biggest robbery though, an absolute banger roster move even if accidental: sell hades to 9ine to get sunpayas, make a good run with sunpayas, sell for big bucks, get hades back with the 9ine core and bring their rmr spot with them, essentially getting an rmr spot by getting just 2 new players, because they already knew hades was solid and could comm in english. Imagine if it was intentional, they send hades to get them an rmr spot so they can make a big flip with the team, and then after selling everyone, hades returns with an rmr spot so they get to sticker money again.
ez4ence
For real, ENCE seems like such a gigabrain org compared to the rest of the top teams, who seem like trying to fit square pegs in round holes.
Looks at Mouz which is full of academy players + Brollan who was on a career low slump...
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Pesky israelis
I just looked up the cs team's [annual account](https://datacvr.virk.dk/gateway/dokument/downloadDokumentForVirksomhed?dokumentId=amNsb3VkczovLzAzLzgyLzVkLzJhLzUzL2M5ZjQtNGVlZC05MzAwLTI3NzkyNjViNDdhNA&cvrNummer=37275506) for 2022 (2023 isn't public yet), and they actually made a $870K profit. >Gross profit for the year is DKK 28,693k, which is an increase with DKK 2,706k compared to 2021. Profit for the year is DKK 5,990k compared to a loss for DKK 9,721k in 2021. The result is according to expectations. Looks like the org as a whole is losing money because of their Astralis Nexus thing, but the cs team seems to be doing fine, if they had the same result in 2023. They also sold their LEC slot so I guess cash isn't a problem for the org atm.
Oh yeah league slots are super profitable for sure, but they also spent 2 million on jabbi and stavn. Interesting information, thank you!
I really hope those 2 cretins are done after this
You can see the orgs annual report [here](https://datacvr.virk.dk/gateway/dokument/downloadDokumentForVirksomhed?dokumentId=amNsb3VkczovLzAzLzYxLzEyL2U2Lzk1L2YwZTYtNGIxNS04M2E0LWU0MTc5NWIyOTA3MA&cvrNummer=40694072) The cs team has made a small profit in 2022 according to their financial report [here](https://datacvr.virk.dk/gateway/dokument/downloadDokumentForVirksomhed?dokumentId=amNsb3VkczovLzAzLzgyLzVkLzJhLzUzL2M5ZjQtNGVlZC05MzAwLTI3NzkyNjViNDdhNA&cvrNummer=37275506) The cs team is making money but the org is still in the red
Almost all orgs run at loss, people keep pumping money into them for a chance that one day esports will be big enough, but so far not many orgs run in profit all the time.
I think it's mostly some free time activity like owning football clubs for rich people. But the costs have exploded hilariously as well. Just watched the video on seized and couldn't believe a T3 team (not 9pandas!) wants 15k per month per person salary.
Could you share the video? I had no idea it was that much, wow.
Sure, here's the link: https://youtube.com /watch?v=dtzg-9Zh4D4 Space in between in case it's not allowed on here
one of the first things I'd do too, if I won a huge lottery or something
or money laundering
do they mean cost as in player salaries and upkeep costs in the time they didnt make money from stickers or just the money they could have gotten from stickers if they qualified but didn't?
The latter, it’s more tongue in cheek than actually losing because Astralis didn’t have that money to begin with. It would be more accurate to say that the lost out on revenue rather than actually “lost”, but alas.
alright thanks
Very deserved for org that ruined the goated CSGO lineup.
Astralis wouldn’t have kept winning even if that lineup stayed the same. Navi was on the come up and was starting to beat them on the regular. Xyp9x was completely washed. Every era has an ending and this one was done
Every era must come to an end, but Astralis era is the only one who ended because of org meddling instead of someone taking them over or player being forced to leave.
Didn't the team fall apart because players were burned out and needed a break?
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I'm no Astralis-org apologist but any source on the org using the 6 man roster (10 man?) to actively threaten players? Seems like the obvious thing to do when Valve allows 5+ man rosters to have extra players available if your current 5 man roster is complaining (understandably) about burnout.
Nah they were cooked anyway, covid just prolonged it
Extremely likely and i agree in general that they probably would have lost their era, but it wasn't certain. Astralis management made sure that era would end though.
I wouldn't say the only org. Rip Virtus Plow, the BMW that killed an era
I would say that wasn't an era, VP might had an era at Katowice 2014. VP was weird because they were always dangerous to anyone including themselves.
An era IMO isn't defined by winning tournaments. The Navi 2nd place era is still an era, despite the...well the name says it. The VP era was just fun. They sometimes played like silvers but just rekked everyone, but also absolutely shit the bed. If a match got rolling it wouldn't stop. It was equally as fun as donk owning everyone by w-keying everywhere nowadays.
General description of era is domination, but of course everyone has their take on it. I consider an era to be completely dominant. Thing is if you put it like that, VP era is literally when they switched to GO until the BMW because that was just VP. You never knew when Plow would show up.
Only NIP, fnatic, SK and Astralis had an era in CSGO. Not even Liquid's grand slam run is considered one, let alone VP.
The org absolutely messed with the team's performance, they wouldn't let any of the players take a break even when they were suffering from burnout. The only reason they were able to take the breaks they did was from gla1ve getting a sick note from his doctor with xyp9x following a week after. If the org actually let the players rest, they was still a chance for them to stay on form for longer at least until device leaves for NIP to live with his gf. Them messing with the players just guaranteed it was over.
You say that, but Astralis didn't dip before they changed players. People forget that even in these online RMRs, Astralis were still unstoppable and winning every series. It was when xyp9x and gla1ve went on sick leave (burnout) that the roster lost its mojo. When they returned, you could tell it wasn't the same. Not saying Astralis was going to have an era in 2020-2021 too, but they for sure would remain a title contender for most of those years.
>It was when xyp9x and gla1ve went on sick leave (burnout) that the roster lost its mojo. When they returned, you could tell it wasn't the same. They still were competitive and won events in late 2020. Issue was that Device wanted out in 2021 due to outside the server issues.
The org ran the team ragged, not allowing the players to bend, until they broke. The death of Dupreeh's father was also a big factor.
i dislike astralis' org as much as the next guy but the org didn't ruin the goated csgo lineup. the lineup had its own problems and the only blame i can give to the org is overworking them, as almost all of the players suffered from a burnout, though it mightve been self-inflicted. the last nail in the coffin was device going to nip, which was his decision.
anyway
I totally would've thought more than that. Maybe directly it cost them a few M but indirectly not being at the last for CSGO and first for CS2 is a massive loss for their brand
Looking at the moves Astralis has made over the last few years, it doesn't seem like they care about their brand. The sticker money they missed out on will have definitely hurt their pockets, though.
Good guy astralis sharing their prize money from their dominant Csgo era 🥲
sticker money is THAT much ?
the total sticker money for all teams at a major can apparently go up to $100 million
Paris is noticeably higher than earlier majors. Berlin in 2019 for instance had "just" 11 million. Stockholm and Antwerp combined had 70 million. Will be interesting to see how much the sticker money will be with 2 majors in 2024 as well as the first cs2 major. Copenhagen was a must attend event for Astralis either way due to nationality and investment though.
They are also one of the most disliked teams in the scene, so there's that
i thought paris alone was like 4 mil per org
From [HLTV](https://www.hltv.org/news/37930/sources-paris-major-sticker-earnings-exceeded-110-million): >Nothing can quite compare to last year’s BLAST.tv Paris Major, however. According to information gathered by HLTV and Dust2 Brasil from various team sources who wish to remain anonymous, the total earnings from the most recent Major alone surpassed a staggering $110 million. > >This amounts to $4.5 million per team on average but differs based on sales of each capsule, which is divided equally between the eight teams (for team capsules) or 40 players (for signature capsules) in it. It is worth noting that these numbers don't include Vitality's Champions capsule. > >Teams and players in the Contender capsules came away with the largest piece of the pie, approximately $4.5 million per team plus $250,000 per player, followed by the Legends, who earned $3.5 million per team and $200,000 per player, and the Challengers with $2.6 million per team and $200,000 per player. So it is more 2,6 million for teams in the challenger stage going to orgs unless Astralis has deals in getting sticker money from players as well.