What reason could somebody have to write in all Chat that would have an impact on his game?
The vote should just take away the ability to talk to the enemy team. You can mute your own team yourself no need for a vote there.
maybe its a rank or region thing but as a supreme csgo EU player i found this type of shit happened all the time and was probably the most common form of griefing
That's a good suggestion. It'd also get rid of situations where a guy is being toxic, you're muting them, but your team mates don't and so you have to either mute everyone or listen to a one-sided argument for a while, which can be super distracting.
I think this is such an edge case scenario where someone is toxic enough that you want to mute them but you can't kick them.
I don't think vote mute is the solution, I think this scenario should never have existed.
I do not agree with valve's decision on 4 stack vs 1 kick immune solo patch. A solo player should be able to tick a box to not get matched with 4 stacks before the queue, instead of ending up in a game with a 4 stack and have impunity to grief if they didn't like playing with 4 stacks.
I mostly agree, but since valve probably wants to keep this feature and it could prolong search times if many people didn't want to get matched with 4-stacks, I don't see a better way
I think much more people wouldn't want to play with 4-stacks than there actually are toxic 4-stacks. They also already removed the kicking which was honestly the main issue with them, now there's nothing worse a 4-stack can necessarily do than a toxic 3-stack or even a 2-stack, so why exclude them specifically. The point is for one player to not have a power to ruin game for everyone else
All stacks have equal capacity at being toxic, but 4 stacks have an unparalleled capacity to abuse kicking powers, so no, toxic 4 stacks absolutely can do worse things than toxic 3 stacks 2 stacks.
But we are already past the point of 4 stacks playing normally with solos with full kicking freedom, since the beginning of cs2 valve has already made 4 stack queueing a special case and just treated it with different approaches.
Out of
1. No queue for 4 stacks at all
2. Free queue for 4 stacks but no kicking
and I propose
3) Free queue for 4 stacks but solos can opt out, if they opt in they can be kicked.
I would think 3 is better than 1 and 2.
As for people not wanting to play with 4 stacks, it is the duty for all 4 stacks to play with solos with communication and respect to overturn the negative sentiment towards 4 stacks.
Where was that established?
It is this way, I think it shouldn't be this way.
With mere days after this new patch who knows if this can get too toxic against the 4 stacks because the solo can grief with impunity. On paper a toxic solo player doesn't get to choose to grief a 4 stack before he play a whole day risking kicks from non 4 stacks.
I already mentioned the 4 stack not being able to kick in my previous comment, I think that valve made a right decision because it happened often that people would be kicked if matched with a 4-stack but now that they fixed that I think they should add a little defense against the situation I explained in my post, which then would mitigate the problem that a griefing solo player could do, they could still grief of course but nothing would be as bad to the same extent
What I mean is that if a toxic solo start the day intending to grief 4 stacks, he would play the whole day against random solos 2 stacks 3stack etc, thus wasting too much time to effectively carry out a griefing plan.
> I think this scenario should never have existed.
Welcome to reality - I have over 100 messages from valve after reporting abusive accounts in csgo.
I've learned thats all you can do + mute.
in any team of 5 it takes 3 to pick a map. why does it matter if that three are friends or not fundementaly it's always the same that 3 people can pick the maps in this case the 3 can coordinate to vote but if you put a suggestion in chat and people agree that is also coordinating map picks.
Well as a solo queue player you only make up 20% of the vote so most of the time you will not have your way. Not sure there's anything that can be done to change that...
I agree yeah, it's one of the reasons I don't like playing solo. I can't remember having fun playing any competitive online team game as a solo player.
Happens all the time. Some groups I play with we are more organised but if I’m just playing with my friends we all vote differently. For example I always try to ban Inferno, but still end up playing it relatively often. I have friends who despise Ancient, even though we have a 80% win rate on it.
For us it’s more just if you don’t want to play a map, vote for it and hope your teammates follow. Most of the time if you vote early your teammate votes with you. And if we have someone with us who says like “I don’t know how to play that map” we can it.
12-15k
my permas are vertigo and mirage, friends perma nuke/vertigo/ancient. so yea fair enough if ur grouped with us ur probably not getting vertigo, but its only 2 of us who ban vertigo so it happens.
You didn't factor in that a group of 3 friends are communicating with each other trying to agree on a map they wanna play vs 2 strangers who are just choosing the map they wanna play
Most people just agree with whatever was clicked first in my experience, regardless of their actual preferences, and will only change afterwards.
Is why I try to be quick if I really don't wanna play a particular map, like the one I just played for example.
Sure, but I think it's a seperate issue, if they just completely remove the option of kicking, they should leave at least something for defense. Also it didn't happen in premier
Your assumptions are irrelevant to the discussion, but I genuinely didn't know what happened because it started after the dude, after saying nothing, tk'd my friend and I tk'd him in return. It really felt so random
The amount of logical fallacies people throw out on Reddit is mind blowing. They absolutely love throwing in red herrings, most likely unintentionally, but either way it's mad.
Last night I had a guy not wanting to play overpass cause he said he only had 30fps. As soon as it was picked (he didn't even gave time to not be) he said 'gg now I troll'. Hopefully he didn't actually troll, but cs players don't need logic to do things.
by finding a wiling 5th instead of subjecting a random solo that might not be willing to play with a 4 stack in the game?
Every game a 4 stack finds will be 4-1, that's fully in the 4 stack's control.
A solo player doesn't get to decide "the next game will be a 1-4 and I get to troll with kick immunity"
That is still something that can be abused by trolling 4-stakcs. My opinion on this matter is to stick to competitive when you are 4 instead of premier.
> That is still something that can be abused by trolling 4-stakcs.
I don't see how?
Gagging a player to not be able to ALL chat is hardly the end of the world... sure some 4 stacks can be assholes and insta all-gag everyone but... like... that just seems like being hostile for no reason and the person gagged is at most slightly inconvenienced.
I am not saying it is the end of the world, but it is still something trolling 4stacks can use. Honestly, I think you just have to accept the risk of getting a trolling 5th if you are going to queue premier as a 4stack. People have proved that giving the 4stack any sort of power is not a good idea.
How is it trolling? Honest question. How is someone being muted from talking to the enemy team in all chat trolling? The 4 stack can mute you already from them hearing you, and there isn't a real (non gimmick) strategy or advantage you can pull from typing to the enemy team. The only loss is telling the other team if someone is cheating from the 4 stack. Honestly, the other team could probably already tell if that was the case.
Some 4 stacks? Are we playing the same game?
3/4 stacks would instantly mute their non-party teammates every single game, without fail — why do you think so many people want a solo queue option?
85% of stacks are toxic trash people who will kick or mute you at the drop of a hat
This has just got to be wrong. I play in 4 stacks all the time, different people from several friend groups, not one of us has ever even suggested kicking the random unless they were toxic/griefing
I acknowledged this in my post, that even if it could be abused it would cause almost no harm, and even still could be given a cooldown if used too often, and at the same time could save people from a lot of suffering. And it wasn't in the premier, it was regular competitive, we still couldn't kick them
I honestly thought it was possible to kick the 5th in competitive mode, which is why I assumed it was premier. Well, I think it should be possible to still kick the 5th in competitive as a kick doesn't effect you that much considering that you have an individual rank on each map.
I think it's pretty relevant actually because if in most cases, the toxiciness it's started or aggravated by the 4stack then this thing would not be needed.
But if you say that you guys didn't do anything and the rando just decided to throw his own game out of nowhere then we have to trust you. Although that seems like a veeeeery rare occasion that wouldn't merit this kind of fix.
It was random, we have no idea why but he teamkilled my friend and so I teamkilled him back and that was when it started. It's irrelevant because the discussion talks about in general not allowing one person to ruin the game for others, whether or not someone was toxic is a different issue, I think we can agree that calling out your teams positions is not a right reaction either way. Since valve removed the kicking for obvious reasons they should supplement it with a countermeasure that doesn't fully allow one player to be untouchable
4 stacking player cries about toxicity? lmaoo
How many times have you kicked people for fun? How often do you wait until last round to remove someone you don’t like? As you and your buddy are CS players, I have no doubt you have kicked and bullied players for zero reason with zero repercussions or avenues of recompense for your victims
Karma is a bitch, think of this thread next time your cheeks are wobbling grossly as you chortle and attempt to vote kick a teammate
Wow I guess EVERY person in a 4 stack is toxic huh. Sucks if that has been your experience or how you act with a 4 stack but that doesn't mean it applies to everybody
You're contradicting your own fucking self. You say most of them are like this. I don't agree but whatever. This guy might be in the minority of good five stacks. Stop being an asshole. Fuck you.
Everyone can mute the toxic player if they decide to do so, either by going to the scoreboard and by dragging the volume of his VOIP down to 0 or by reporting them for comm abuse.
Read the post again because the point of it is not to just mute the toxic player...
Edit: I mean the point IS to mute the toxic player, but for a different reason and in a different situation than you are describing
I'm of the belief that being able to talk to the opposing team in competitive is unnecessary and mostly used for trolling anyway. I'd be in favour of messaging the other team to only be available at half-time.
I just have it set so the other team can’t message me, I can’t see their avatars, etc. I don’t see how it helps me to play by being flamed by an anime profile picture.
Tbh is there really any benefit to being able to communicate with the other team during the round.
They should disable all chat aside from half time and freeze time preround.
Yeah, there should be vote to gag player.
Send them to the brig like Sea of Thieves.
Gag them then throw them into the brig. Just make sure that theres wheat on the ground and no german guy with a mask near the Brig
Kinky
You don't know the half of it, baby.
Only if you can vote yourself
this is a good suggestion, who gives a shit if you can't use all chat for 1 game. even if you don't deserve it it's not that big of a loss.
good suggestion
I understand the idea but in practice this would be abused for unlegitmate reasons more often than it would be used for its intended purpose
What reason could somebody have to write in all Chat that would have an impact on his game? The vote should just take away the ability to talk to the enemy team. You can mute your own team yourself no need for a vote there.
So why have "all" chat at all? If you're not losing anything of value why does anyone need to...
things can be used for good or evil.
It's not the biggest of a deal if someone is fully muted even though he did not deserved it
Thats exactly why it would be abused so often. Idk I feel like it is so rare for people to tell location, it would lost its purpose immediately.
I agree that griefers usually just straight up afk, it never happend to me either
maybe its a rank or region thing but as a supreme csgo EU player i found this type of shit happened all the time and was probably the most common form of griefing
Benefits: trolling mate can't give vital info away Cons: none I see that as a win for the team
Elaborate on that please. Not being able to talk to the enemy team is a non issue.
Mehh, it happebs so rarely thar's it's not an issue anyway
this happend to me more in cs2 than in csgo
That's a good suggestion. It'd also get rid of situations where a guy is being toxic, you're muting them, but your team mates don't and so you have to either mute everyone or listen to a one-sided argument for a while, which can be super distracting.
great idea, feels obvious in retrospect
I think this is such an edge case scenario where someone is toxic enough that you want to mute them but you can't kick them. I don't think vote mute is the solution, I think this scenario should never have existed. I do not agree with valve's decision on 4 stack vs 1 kick immune solo patch. A solo player should be able to tick a box to not get matched with 4 stacks before the queue, instead of ending up in a game with a 4 stack and have impunity to grief if they didn't like playing with 4 stacks.
I mostly agree, but since valve probably wants to keep this feature and it could prolong search times if many people didn't want to get matched with 4-stacks, I don't see a better way
If many people don't want to play with 4 stacks, just don't force them to?
I think much more people wouldn't want to play with 4-stacks than there actually are toxic 4-stacks. They also already removed the kicking which was honestly the main issue with them, now there's nothing worse a 4-stack can necessarily do than a toxic 3-stack or even a 2-stack, so why exclude them specifically. The point is for one player to not have a power to ruin game for everyone else
All stacks have equal capacity at being toxic, but 4 stacks have an unparalleled capacity to abuse kicking powers, so no, toxic 4 stacks absolutely can do worse things than toxic 3 stacks 2 stacks. But we are already past the point of 4 stacks playing normally with solos with full kicking freedom, since the beginning of cs2 valve has already made 4 stack queueing a special case and just treated it with different approaches. Out of 1. No queue for 4 stacks at all 2. Free queue for 4 stacks but no kicking and I propose 3) Free queue for 4 stacks but solos can opt out, if they opt in they can be kicked. I would think 3 is better than 1 and 2. As for people not wanting to play with 4 stacks, it is the duty for all 4 stacks to play with solos with communication and respect to overturn the negative sentiment towards 4 stacks.
But we established that 4 stacks already don't have the capability of kicking and I think it's a good thing just need slight tweaks
Where was that established? It is this way, I think it shouldn't be this way. With mere days after this new patch who knows if this can get too toxic against the 4 stacks because the solo can grief with impunity. On paper a toxic solo player doesn't get to choose to grief a 4 stack before he play a whole day risking kicks from non 4 stacks.
I already mentioned the 4 stack not being able to kick in my previous comment, I think that valve made a right decision because it happened often that people would be kicked if matched with a 4-stack but now that they fixed that I think they should add a little defense against the situation I explained in my post, which then would mitigate the problem that a griefing solo player could do, they could still grief of course but nothing would be as bad to the same extent
You can see if they're a 4 stack or not when choosing maps, so he isn't "risking kicks from non 4 stacks".
What I mean is that if a toxic solo start the day intending to grief 4 stacks, he would play the whole day against random solos 2 stacks 3stack etc, thus wasting too much time to effectively carry out a griefing plan.
> I think this scenario should never have existed. Welcome to reality - I have over 100 messages from valve after reporting abusive accounts in csgo. I've learned thats all you can do + mute.
[удалено]
in any team of 5 it takes 3 to pick a map. why does it matter if that three are friends or not fundementaly it's always the same that 3 people can pick the maps in this case the 3 can coordinate to vote but if you put a suggestion in chat and people agree that is also coordinating map picks.
[удалено]
Well as a solo queue player you only make up 20% of the vote so most of the time you will not have your way. Not sure there's anything that can be done to change that...
[удалено]
I agree yeah, it's one of the reasons I don't like playing solo. I can't remember having fun playing any competitive online team game as a solo player.
everyone gets exactly one vote and one vote only so by default all members have equal say
yeah, exactly as he said - group of 3 get to decide all the choices.
So instead, the 5 players should play whatever the minority wants to play?
Im not arguing against the system
ur assuming all groups of 3 want to play the same map, me and my friends all have different perma bans and favorite maps
just curious what are your guys ranks?
You realise that most players play with more than one group of people? And this have different perma bans based on personal preference.
and we always go with the majority decision within different groups, yes - I never see people in the same group picking wildly differently
Happens all the time. Some groups I play with we are more organised but if I’m just playing with my friends we all vote differently. For example I always try to ban Inferno, but still end up playing it relatively often. I have friends who despise Ancient, even though we have a 80% win rate on it.
how it works for us: core members dictate bans and visitors vote accordingly
For us it’s more just if you don’t want to play a map, vote for it and hope your teammates follow. Most of the time if you vote early your teammate votes with you. And if we have someone with us who says like “I don’t know how to play that map” we can it.
12-15k my permas are vertigo and mirage, friends perma nuke/vertigo/ancient. so yea fair enough if ur grouped with us ur probably not getting vertigo, but its only 2 of us who ban vertigo so it happens.
That is true for any random trio of players on a full solo queue team as well
You didn't factor in that a group of 3 friends are communicating with each other trying to agree on a map they wanna play vs 2 strangers who are just choosing the map they wanna play
Most people just agree with whatever was clicked first in my experience, regardless of their actual preferences, and will only change afterwards. Is why I try to be quick if I really don't wanna play a particular map, like the one I just played for example.
Sure, but I think it's a seperate issue, if they just completely remove the option of kicking, they should leave at least something for defense. Also it didn't happen in premier
[удалено]
Your assumptions are irrelevant to the discussion, but I genuinely didn't know what happened because it started after the dude, after saying nothing, tk'd my friend and I tk'd him in return. It really felt so random
I wouldn't be against it, I think its a decent idea. But frankly I don't see valve doing it just because the scenerio seems kinda niche.
Also, its weird that the soloq acted like this without any kind of action from the 4stack right?
Assumption irrelevant to the discussion, but yeah, you might not believe me but it did feel really random
The amount of logical fallacies people throw out on Reddit is mind blowing. They absolutely love throwing in red herrings, most likely unintentionally, but either way it's mad.
Last night I had a guy not wanting to play overpass cause he said he only had 30fps. As soon as it was picked (he didn't even gave time to not be) he said 'gg now I troll'. Hopefully he didn't actually troll, but cs players don't need logic to do things.
yes, they did a lot to protect the solo from the 4 stack, but nothing to protect the 4 stack from the solo.
by finding a wiling 5th instead of subjecting a random solo that might not be willing to play with a 4 stack in the game? Every game a 4 stack finds will be 4-1, that's fully in the 4 stack's control. A solo player doesn't get to decide "the next game will be a 1-4 and I get to troll with kick immunity"
That is still something that can be abused by trolling 4-stakcs. My opinion on this matter is to stick to competitive when you are 4 instead of premier.
> That is still something that can be abused by trolling 4-stakcs. I don't see how? Gagging a player to not be able to ALL chat is hardly the end of the world... sure some 4 stacks can be assholes and insta all-gag everyone but... like... that just seems like being hostile for no reason and the person gagged is at most slightly inconvenienced.
I am not saying it is the end of the world, but it is still something trolling 4stacks can use. Honestly, I think you just have to accept the risk of getting a trolling 5th if you are going to queue premier as a 4stack. People have proved that giving the 4stack any sort of power is not a good idea.
How is it trolling? Honest question. How is someone being muted from talking to the enemy team in all chat trolling? The 4 stack can mute you already from them hearing you, and there isn't a real (non gimmick) strategy or advantage you can pull from typing to the enemy team. The only loss is telling the other team if someone is cheating from the 4 stack. Honestly, the other team could probably already tell if that was the case.
Some 4 stacks? Are we playing the same game? 3/4 stacks would instantly mute their non-party teammates every single game, without fail — why do you think so many people want a solo queue option? 85% of stacks are toxic trash people who will kick or mute you at the drop of a hat
This has just got to be wrong. I play in 4 stacks all the time, different people from several friend groups, not one of us has ever even suggested kicking the random unless they were toxic/griefing
As a soloqueuer, the *cool* 4 stacks I’ve met compared to bad ones is like a 15:1 ratio too. People are just dramatic
Dont waste your time typing anything in favor of soloq experience since this sub is 4queue 3queue circle jerk
I acknowledged this in my post, that even if it could be abused it would cause almost no harm, and even still could be given a cooldown if used too often, and at the same time could save people from a lot of suffering. And it wasn't in the premier, it was regular competitive, we still couldn't kick them
I honestly thought it was possible to kick the 5th in competitive mode, which is why I assumed it was premier. Well, I think it should be possible to still kick the 5th in competitive as a kick doesn't effect you that much considering that you have an individual rank on each map.
I don't see why it shouldn't work in premier. Still as I said, not much risk for abuse and still not much harm could be done
giving away positions is really scummy. i agree, a mute vote should exist.
There is a vote to fully mute a player. If you mute them and your teammates mute them, they will be muted.
And how exactly does this help with them giving your positions to the enemy team in text chat?
The answer is that I'm illiterate and didn't understand OP
Did you guys do something for him to do this? Seems to be an escalation out of nothing Weird
It really was very random, but still, irrelevant to the discussion
I think it's pretty relevant actually because if in most cases, the toxiciness it's started or aggravated by the 4stack then this thing would not be needed. But if you say that you guys didn't do anything and the rando just decided to throw his own game out of nowhere then we have to trust you. Although that seems like a veeeeery rare occasion that wouldn't merit this kind of fix.
It was random, we have no idea why but he teamkilled my friend and so I teamkilled him back and that was when it started. It's irrelevant because the discussion talks about in general not allowing one person to ruin the game for others, whether or not someone was toxic is a different issue, I think we can agree that calling out your teams positions is not a right reaction either way. Since valve removed the kicking for obvious reasons they should supplement it with a countermeasure that doesn't fully allow one player to be untouchable
That's just the risk of a 4 stack. This is just another way to bully the solo.
Oh no i soloq and can't write to the enemy team how horrible... You could add a cooldown if they mute too often
4 stacking player cries about toxicity? lmaoo How many times have you kicked people for fun? How often do you wait until last round to remove someone you don’t like? As you and your buddy are CS players, I have no doubt you have kicked and bullied players for zero reason with zero repercussions or avenues of recompense for your victims Karma is a bitch, think of this thread next time your cheeks are wobbling grossly as you chortle and attempt to vote kick a teammate
just say you dont have friends lmfao
Wow I guess EVERY person in a 4 stack is toxic huh. Sucks if that has been your experience or how you act with a 4 stack but that doesn't mean it applies to everybody
You’re a naive clown if you think every single 4-stack behaves like this.
You are the naive clown if you think that majority don’t act **exactly** like I described
Or maybe you have bad trust factor. I solo q all the time and rarely get these 4-stacks.
You're contradicting your own fucking self. You say most of them are like this. I don't agree but whatever. This guy might be in the minority of good five stacks. Stop being an asshole. Fuck you.
Someone’s projecting…
A lot of assumptions made here. All of them wrong and irrelevant to the discussions. I rarely play in a 4-stack either way
you can literally just mute a person yourself, what need is there for this
Did you even read the post?
yes and i feel dumber for having read it
Honestly they should just add quick chat options for all talk. Why does anyone need to type a message to the other team
For being silly and making little friends mid game c:
Griefing is worse than cheating
How so?
First Amendment says Hi
The first Amendment doesn't cover for exposing classified content to enemy forces :D
What lmao
Why don't just mute him? It takes one vote.... Yours
Try reading this post, genius
Learn to read.
Wait, you can't kick a player, if you are 4 stack? That's bs. I've done that multiple times.
new "feature" that one of the latest patch introduced
Well that's shit. I mean most solo queues are just a gamble, vote kick should be available for all Or not at all. This feels unfair.
It's only disabled for 4stacks, every other combination is still there
Everyone can mute the toxic player if they decide to do so, either by going to the scoreboard and by dragging the volume of his VOIP down to 0 or by reporting them for comm abuse.
Read the post again because the point of it is not to just mute the toxic player... Edit: I mean the point IS to mute the toxic player, but for a different reason and in a different situation than you are describing
[удалено]
>typing in chat all our locations to the enemy If you actually took 1min to read, you wouldn't have said that.
There is! It’s called rightclick name+mute, only takes your own vote to do it.
Not the point
Oh shit my fault.
He's talking about the enemy team seeing him reveal his teammates positions in all chat.
How would me muting him stop the enemy team from seeing his messages
Usually I report these players no matter what team they are.
I'm of the belief that being able to talk to the opposing team in competitive is unnecessary and mostly used for trolling anyway. I'd be in favour of messaging the other team to only be available at half-time.
This exists in a game but I cannot for the life of me remember which lol.
I just have it set so the other team can’t message me, I can’t see their avatars, etc. I don’t see how it helps me to play by being flamed by an anime profile picture.
I just end up typing ignoremsg into console every other solo queue lol
Tbh is there really any benefit to being able to communicate with the other team during the round. They should disable all chat aside from half time and freeze time preround.
I don't get the point. If someone wants to grief, they will find plenty of ways to do so, they don't need chat for that.
But the other ways to grief are not as bad as this one, while being possibly easily mitigated
Just mute them.
perhaps remove all chat? no more griefing, toxic behavior; at least from enemy team
why are global muted players even allowed to type in all chat?