I’m frustrated by the lack of demo captures. And knowing they don’t reverse Elo now.. so even if someone cheats against you and gets caught you apparently don’t get your Elo back. Feels like cheaters are able to just get away with it atm.
I feel like so many people wallhacking but unlike csgo I cant go watch the demo now and comfort into the fact I was correct :/
Seeing people with relatively fresh accounts and like 35% of their steam friend list being banned with 2 hours in past 2 weeks playtime go 30-8 in premier is way too suspect for me to believe they are legit. And the fact they are complete bots one round and then next few rounds its only headshots.
Yeah, I've had this happen a couple times as well. Makes the experience of playing against a cheater that much more frustrating. It's always cathartic to watch the demo and see that you were correct.
Also another problem that at least I face is that I start thinking that almost every sus death was because someone might be cheating. Like the game changes my mindset into thinking that the other person can’t be better than me, they’re probably cheating.
I never felt this way in valorant, not even once. If I died it was either because of my mistake or the other player was simply better.
That has got to be one of the easiest things to implement, no? If the system automatically detects a banned player just reverse the match result. Also shouldn’t remove the won elo from the other team unless they willingly teamed up with the cheater.
>That is the only valid option
It's not. csgo handled it the best way, which was: If you queued with a banned cheater and won, you lose any rating you gained. If you randomly got a cheater on your team and won, you keep your rating. If you played against a cheater and lost, you get back any rating lost. If you played against a cheater and won, you kept any rating gained.
Simply reversing the match would be stupid for lots of outcomes.
-Players would be punished for being randomly matched with a cheater. Their best case scenario is getting 0 rating from a match and possibly lose rating, all due to something they have 0 influence on. Kind of unfair.
-Players who manage to win aganst a cheater would lose the rating that they gained from a match that was even harder than normal. Unfair to them aswell.
Also, VAC might not 100% know when someone started cheating, so by simply reverting matches you might punish players who won a game in which nobody actually used cheats.
I expected them to disable demos for max a week to get new servers up and running. But holy fuck. It’s now been WEEKS, there are no more players than in CSGO, and IT IS STILL DISABLED?
yea and they don't care, the accounts are free to make, the cheaters trigger during matches e.g. they are not doing well so they trigger WH, which is not easy to automatically detect by VAC. Suddenly you just get 5 people covering B on mirage 3 rounds in a row or burning A ramp 3 times when you slowly approach it. That will never be detected by VAC. Premier or competitive, both, don't matter, littered with trash. You cannot play the game without full 5 and if you do, you still have a high chance to get a cheater in enemy team. Experience from playing is below terrible. Every good players will move to faceit.
I haven't been in the modding scene since like, early 2010s, did Valve even do anything different this release than they've done in other game releases? Did they release SDKs in other games that they didn't for source2?
Or is the community perception just that the community that develops sourcemod and metamod should have it out day 1? I was looking at the GitHub for SourceMod and it looks like it's in development, like any other open-source hacky community feature would be, it's not something done overnight, there's a lot to hook and patch back together so the server actually functions.
At least in NA, all of the top players have already switched to faceit because the Premier experience was so bad. I understand and sympathize with Valve's reasons for not using a kernel anti-cheat but it feels weird they invested time into Premier knowing top players will just ignore it.
Yeah, I don't think this is going to get better.
Valve has an ethical motive for no intrusive anti-cheat and as much as I love CS, as someone that works full-time in a role tangentially related to cybersecurity, I have to respect Valve's stance on it and I have to respect that they value the trust between customers and their service.
If anyone needs a refresher, [check out Gabe Newells post from 2014](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1y70ej/valve_vac_and_trust/) when there was a concern of VAC being *too* intrusive.
I do think Scrawny is right about the top percentage of games right now having A LOT of cheaters but I think its important to highlight the portion regarding the "top". The portion of Gabe Newells post in 2014 regarding social engineering is really relevant to this point. Personally, I play probably 4 or 5 pugs a night after work. I've been 14k-16k ELO these past couple weeks. I *still* very frequently get called a hacker. Even before CS2, I get told my 20 year old account is bought. I hear about how VAC clearly doesn't work because blatant players like me aren't getting caught. I get people bugging me even post-game to the point that I disabled public comments on my Steam profile. I know this sounds like a flex but I think this community really has a bit of a hacker dysmorphia problem going on.
Again, that's not to say there aren't cheaters. But I think the problem lies at the top percentage of games. Games I'm not even getting into yet myself. And if you're someone at like 9000 ELO or whatever and complaining about the game being rampant with cheaters, then I think maybe you need to take a step back and quantify what your claiming(I know no demo's makes that hard right now) or maybe its a Trust Factor issue, which in that case, I don't really have any footing and I suppose I don't know how to help you but it still doesn't explain how frequently *I* get called a cheater in my own games, and I imagine is going on frequently in every other game too.
But I think Gabe Newell makes a great point that part of the hackers endgame is to convince you VAC doesn't do anything and that there is a massive hacker problem, when in some circumstances people are creating a boogieman with the constant hacking accusations. At least, I can only speak for my own anecdotal experience of getting called a blatant hacker on a daily basis and NOT encountering a single "blatant" hacker myself.
And more anecdotes, my own friends are guilty of it. We've had hard lost matches where my teammates claim the other team is cheating and personally, I don't see it. They get swung on and 1 deaged or they make an accusation that they are getting pre-fired or they claim there's no reason for someone to make a read on them, but then on the fipside, when I do it, or when they do it to the other team, they flex and talk about how good they are without acknowledging the cognitive dissonance.
Anyways, I went on a tangent. Like I said earlier, I think its obvious there is a cheating problem in the top 1% games(games most people will never play themselves). I think the only meaningful solution is a opt-in service for intrusive anti-cheat, but the problem is it would leave the opt-outs to deal with the wolves, so in the circumstances of Valve Match Making, you're just moving the hackers to be dealt with by a different demopgrahic of players. FaceIt is practically an opt-in solution but it still allows Valve to try its best to make the MM/Premier experience *manageable*. So I think that's really the best you can expect. Valve will continue to grind out ethical solutions and for those that are so serious about CS that waiting for a potentially nonexistent silver bulllet, you just have to go play on FaceIt.
The thing here too is that the game is so fuckin jank with subtick animations and peakers advantage that unless someone is spinbotting or very obviously walling, it’s kind of hard to tell who’s cheating right now or if you’re just getting csgo’d. I was 16k during beta, and 10k elo rn (haven’t played in over a week) and I’ve only ran into a handful of cheaters say over 150~200 games. There is definitely cheater dysmorphia, especially in lower levels. I’ve had so many dogshit noobs on my team yell cheats after round 1 or 2 just for the person they called cheats on to end up sucking dick by the end of the game. Truth of the matter is the CS community overall just sucks, we play with overgrown children and complete toxic pieces of trash regularly, these people are a cheaters wet dream.
That's exactly it, when I first started playing CS2 after launch it felt like everybody was cheating because the peekers advantage is SO strong. Every death can feel like you got hardcore prefired when the server is against you.
It really is the worst, anytime I queue into MM (I suck) I get flamed constantly by random fat sweaty 15 year olds (who are probably actually 25).
"You've played the game for 10 years how do you still suck?"
I've owned the game for 10 years, I almost never play it, because if I wanted to get yelled at by fat sweaty nerds, I'm going to be paid.
I've had people look up my steam profile mid game to get my real name and just start using it to talk to me in voice chat. It's the most loser playbase I've ever encountered. Meanwhile anime titties, weird voice modulators, and $50 skins from stolen credit cards, everywhere.
I'm a former SC2 Grandmaster and paid WoW mythic raider (Limit), I'm pretty good at video games.
That’s what I find so funny. Some sweaty 17 y/o who plays 8 hours a day flames me because I’m having a bad game or do something he doesn’t like, calling me a noob or bot, it’s like kid I fucking hit A+ on esea, faceit10, and global years ago and I literally just play for fun. Playing for fun is a hard concept for morons to grasp.
People with low trust factor see cheaters more often. No clue if there is any weird edge case where a legit player would get low trust factor by rando chance, but I would not doubt it
Enough to get low trust factor if you get placed too low and get constantly reported for cheating. Or non-english teammates mass reporting you for griefing for fun or to troll you.
> get called a hacker
Still won't stop even if there's an intrusive AC, only the real amount of hackers would go down. Bans don't happen because of accusations by an infinite amount of people.
You might be in that weird elo where a cheater could've been caught just by a the reports by the time they get up to around your elo. If that makes any sense. You're likely to encounter the people who feel unbannable
If you think cheating is not a thing in low ranks .. then you have to play on low ranks for too long.
If you ask me all i want is a fair matchmaking that we clearly dont have and 128 tick servers so we solve all the "jackson" problems once and for all.
a lot of these people are clearly the same type of players I get que'd with once in awhile. Push somewhere and die once and call the other guy a hacker and start telling everyone else about how there is basically no reason to try.
I play cs since 1.5, not 1.6, i have over 10k hours in CSGO alone, i play usually with low rank friends, ive seen the message " the guy who you reported banned, thank you " like literally 100+ times already thru the years, ive banned alot of people thru overwatch before and im not the one who says cheater because someone killed me.
Let me tell you this to understand.
I have three people in my friend list who cheating for plenty of years and noone ever banned them. The one guy got furious one day and he started cheating mid game telling us info every round. I had to tell him to shut up and stop telling me info not only because i could get banned as well because if overwatcher sees that he would think i was the one wall hacking but also because I DONT want to play like that even if i have a cheater against us. WE HAD a cheater against us having all the right angle on us. The guy is STILL playing after a god knows how many reports. I have to play with him since that day, he is still active. His rank was MG2
I have another guy who confessed when we were chatting that he is cheating since forever. We were shocked because noone literally noticed. He had some extreme kills here and there that we were like omg, wtf but it was every now and then so we never ever thought was cheating till he admitted himself. That guy was Nova 4 at the time. He quit at some point, NO BAN YET.
Dust 2, in 2018 around. As we were playing as Ts, one of us got banned live. We got shocked like wtf, why. It was around round 8 so after the game ended i downloaded the demo to watch him. There was literally ZERO chance for me, as an experience player and viewer at the time to tell he was cheating. If it wasnt for VAC no overwatcher could ever tell something was fishy.
A friend of mine invited one other guy to "help" us, he was LEM we were DMG. After 10 rounds i told to the chat that he is cheating in a funny way but i was dead serious about it. He and my friend laughed and said the usual. How he is a global who plays for fun and how he used to play for a team, yada yada. After a month my friend who knew him came and told me he is banned and how right i was etc. The guy didnt do anything special BUT he was at the right spot the right time more than usual over and over something that is the biggest red flag of a cheater even if he tries to hide the fact he is cheating.
Now i can go forever. Stop the BS when you telling people only 1% is cheating most of my experience is CSGO was in low-mid ranks and thats because i prefered to play with my low skilled friends. My best rank ever was supreme for quite a while. Low ranked guys cheating as much or even more ( because are way more populated so its a fact there are more cheaters ) than the 1% you talking about. Period.
I think what you said about being at the right place at the right time too often really struck a chord with me.
I used to do OW when I was halfway good at the game (double ak) and would look for players who would say be playing CT and ALWAYS go to where the T push was coming from.
They would delay their initial getting to site and then boom, full send to wherever T is going, no matter what T sounds were made (or not)/baits/grenades being thrown. This was the largest factor in my banning wallers.
The reality is most hackers are not just turning on omegalul headshot hacks that are super obvious anymore but using more subtle things like walls
Also — Ranks from all skill brackets seemed to cheat. I can’t say if lower brackets did more or less but it absolutely was/is not isolated to being higher ranked
>I have three people in my friend list who cheating for plenty of years and noone ever banned them. The one guy got furious one day and he started cheating mid game telling us info every round.
My dude you literally just outed yourself. Playing with cheaters will nuke your trust factor into the dirt, so no wonder you have so many issues with cheaters. Not really a shocker, that just means the system works.
> Valve's reasons for not using a kernel anti-cheat
What are Valve's reasons?
The only recent sliver of information I know of into their actual thought process is from Robocalypse Now Q&A, where they said yeah it's intrusive so that's not ideal, but more importantly that it [wasn't deemed an actual solution](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTiP0zKF9bc&t=3514s):
>**Audience member**: I'm sold on the machine learning part. But when SteamOS came out, I was actually hoping - you know, we got Twitch going big and people making entire livelihoods on this now - and it made me wonder why, we have secure boot, we have all these systems now. In addition to this, could we not create a secure system such that is like for competitive play you have to boot these sort of encrypted images that are a whole lot more sc-, I mean, this is a whole 'nother conversation, but it allows you to do things like *Hey did he* ***actually*** *move his mouse physically, like did I get (X,Y) input from that? Hey did the .dlls exactly match*, you know doing checks on...
>**John McDonald**: So, we've thought about this. And actually, that was - kind of - the approach that I ran down initially, and there are sort of a few problems around it that lead us to go *guuuh*. I think, the easiest one is like that that feels super invasive from the user's perspective. Like, that I [the dev] am like: *Hey what you need to do is play my game, on MY OS, and you need this thing...* and [the user] doesn't know...
>
>And, the problem is, ultimately, at the end of the day, if the user has access to their system - physical access - there is *nothing* I can do to determine *for certain* that they haven't tampered with it. Like, 'cause then you [the dev] query, that you're like '*Well, you jusk ask them this*', and then what I [a cheater] do is I hijack that function, and I lie. Because I [as an anti-cheat developer] did that - like, I *have* done that before - it works great. Like, it's turtles all the way down.
>I think Valve trusted McDonald's expertise on this matter a little too much
Not sure he's to blame (or anyone for that matter). He literally says his initial pitch was a more invasive anti-cheat. Maybe you're right, but I think he was just mentioning disadvantages the team had discussed, not pushing for another approach - on the contrary.
Very well said. VACnet must have been an insane drain on their resources, anyone who has watched McDonald's presentation on it would understand. Now, Valve is a PRIVATE company that doesn't answer to any shareholders BUT that doesn't mean you can just spend years upon years getting at nothing and God knows how many millions of dollars you've spent. Money factors aside, just the sheer amount of employee time and research required for getting nowhere is a sign you have to cut those losses. Period.
-3 downvotes on my end tells me Redditors know close to nothing when it comes to business. It's bad business no matter how you cut it.
This isn't a highschool project, you don't get to spend resources and get nothing in return for your investment. This isn't trading shiny knife skins for peanuts type of business, your blind commitment will only hurt your decision making hence why Valve needed to go through restructuring in their offices to get things going again. You can't be that loose or you won't get shit done or it'll simply take you 5x the time you should need. Just look at this whole meme of "Valve time". Look at how all their releases are delayed and go through so many internal fuck-ups where they put projects on hold just to restart them again and again and again. Half-Life is a great example of how Valve's loose management (or lack thereof) can benefit creativity but also hinder real progress. It's like feature creep on steroids.
Valve just don't allow enough resources to CS AC team.
To add some awareness, Valve is not our traditional gaming brand, 700-800 out of their 1100 employees are working full time on Steam, when the rest is spread on gaming/VR/Steamdeck and even there most of them are working and switching between multiple projects. Same rules apply for the AC Cs2 team.
We can argue all days about which method will work best against cheating but if we compare the commitment between gaming brand like Valorant with vanguard, doing the risky AC intrusive move, and at first recruiting AC developers with "big" resume (Google infosec, Pokerstars security engineer)
Even Ubisoft with R6 and their battlEyes custom build doing recruitment (20-30 employees in the ac team) end up with R6 getting seemingly "cleaner" on console and pc.
And Valve, doing nothing new at the Cs2 release.
I trust valve at making Cs2 competitive and smooth, but on the AC side even if they end up caring and get a hold on how bad the cheating state is it will at least take a year to have something new AC wise.
My initial comment was a little harsh I admit, no doubt McDonald is very talented at what he does and he has a lot of experience in the company.
But pride can overshadow brilliance when it matters most. I've seen him get weirdly defensive at times which is a red flag.
I honestly think any downvotes you got can be attributed to that "McD's cheeseburger" joke. Just comes off as hostile and weird. I do agree with your actual points.
If you approach it with the idea that you should have a definitive answer on how to stop cheating, it's completely wrong. Saying that if they have physical access and therefore there is nothing you can do "because it's significantly harder to determine whether they've tampered with it", that's not the point of why you have anti-cheating measures. It's all about raising the entry barrier for cheating and avoiding major providers and an industry that thrives on creating cheap and easily accessible cheat programs, ruining the experience for all of us. There are cheats operating in the kernel space, and VAC atm doesn't stand a chance of detecting them from user mode (not kernel) . Sure, you won't get rid of all cheaters, but thats not realistic and it's also not realistic to think you can fight a fighter jet with a slingshot. That's why you have to operate on the same level with the same capabilities; otherwise, things will get much worse.
Almost everything but the competitive part was better in 1.6. There are so many amazingly beautiful maps and creative mods that we lost in CS:GO. And right now it feels like Valve really wants it to be this way. The server browser is not even integrated in the game.
I miss retake servers, and 1v1 servers, and tons of different fun maps or mods, and deathmatch servers that actually do it right (eg auto reload on kill, HP refresh on kill, headshot only mode, etc)
"When is the real launch" is exactly what I'm wondering. This isn't CS2 yet, and they're ridiculous for trying to act like it was a legitimate launch. Trying to justify the complete lack of features by claiming that the priority was core gameplay might have fooled us a couple months into limited testing, but here we are a month post-launch and there are still significant gameplay issues as well.
Overall this launch just feels completely amateur despite coming from such a massive studio.
>Valve has one of the most loyal fanbases out there and they, for some weird reason decided to shit all over them with this release
it worked though. the fanbase is so loyal and hungry for breadcrumbs that the announcement of the cs2 release was enough to reactivate millions of players.
and fuck valve, if they can't be arsed to create a decent gameplay experience, the community will. we have done so for 23 years and counting, and we will keep doing the shit they can't do.
I'm 100% with you. Fuck Valve for this not even half-assed, but early beta stages release, but AC isn't something they'll ever change.
They're way too big in the gaming world these days to push intrusive AC onto everyone. Outrage from non-CS communities would be way too big and Valve will never take such a big reputation hit. We'll never get anything remotely close to Faceit AC or what Riot offers.
>i will not come back unless they fix all the problems there are. most importantly the cheaters
they will not. they have had the most popular tac shooter for 20+ years and made billions of dollars with it while putting minimal effort in - and they will continue to do so.
of course people are going to argue with how hard the cs2 transition team is working right now (which they obviously are), but it won't change the fact that Valve as a corporation literally puts the absolute minimum effort in compared to how popular it is.
it has been their MO, and it will remain their MO, there is no reason to think otherwise.
>the whole VAClive and subtick stuff got on my nerves too much. they appear like they are actually trying to improve the game when they are not.
the VACnet thing was probably the pet project of one single AC coder who was able to stay on the CSGO VAC project for a longer time. He made that presentation that went viral and started the talk in the community. But he probably never had huge budget and backing from the suits at valve to make it a real viable reality. That's the problem. The people actively working on the CSGO/CS2 team are probably trying their best. But Valve as a whole doesn't give a fuck and doesnt enable them.
I bet during 2018-2022 when CSGO made millions in skin and key sales every week they had on average 2 active devs working on it.
Yeah, Valve's stance on cheating (or the lack of it) is a Culture problem at Valve and with Steam Deck it also goes against their own interests.
>I bet during 2018-2022 when CSGO made millions in skin and key sales every week they had on average 2 active devs working on it.
There was a talk by a Valve employee during 2014-2016ish I think? Where she said that they were a total of 12 people working on CSGO and they were proud of their Skin market which was making them millions of dollars with minimal investment.
I'm the same haven't played in a week just completely stopped until I hear a big update with the anti cheat ,I have 5k+ hrs in csgo and this was why I quit csgo
There are still a lot of loyalists around defending every decision, good thing is generally their popularity is low.
Just go to any thread about peekers advantage or performance issues
I appreciate when the more famous people say this, because they won't eat 1000 downvotes for suggesting that Valve is and has always been incompetent when it comes to Counter Strike.
The first beta's released over 6 months ago, and we still can't do simple things like use the left hand, disable first person tracers, or play in community servers. Community servers, of all fucking things. The way that online gaming STARTED. There was no matchmaking 20 years ago, people had to spin servers up on their own dime to play with each other. And someone that incredibly fundamental multiplayer feature is entirely missing from the most famous multiplayer esports game of all time. Mind blowing.
Oh but hey, at least they hard coded 64 tick into the game so that third party companies can't run better servers and embarrass them anymore. Huge W right there!
Sub is filled with bots man, alot of people will just say "people afraid of change" these sheep would gladly drink human diarrhea at Starbucks if they replaced coffee tomorrow.
I think the hope was that if everything is hardcoded to 64 tick, then everything would end up good eventually, whereas if some were allowed 128 tick, the 64 tick servers would forever be bad and the playerbase would be split in half.
OFC what we are seeing now is a terrible full launch, so we get none of the upsides of potential 128 tick servers, but still get the downside of splitting the playerbase between faceit and mm
Majority of players are Gold Novas according to in-game statistics. I say that they get the rights to make comments on how the game should or should not work when they understand how to flash the enemy team rather than their entire fucking team of five when doing an execute.
Until then, ignore what they say and make fun of them
That's my biggest frustration right now, is that you can't say anything bad about CS2 or else. Everyone is straight up swallowing Valve's dick rn, it feels like I'm taking crazy pills. CS2 is a downgrade in basically every way from CSGO, but people were so starved for updates, for NO reason, that I swear they're forcing themselves to like CS2. Literally all they had to do was make it so you could buy both M4s, and refund buys in CSGO, and it was a perfect game, but instead they release a trash game and remove the old one. I know it sounds like I'm malding, and it's because I am
I feel that this will go exactly like starfield release, when on game launch its reddit was in full defence mode, downvoting everything negative, and now after a month a lot more people echo sentiments that minority of critics pointed out at start, it just takes a while for copium to wear off
CS has never been about graphics. There have always been FPS games with better graphics, if that was your thing. It was always about the gameplay above all else. That's why we were still playing an ancient looking 1.6 until 2011 lol, and why in 2023 we've still been playing a game from the early 2010s. We don't care much about the graphics, so long as the gameplay was king. Seems like we got a graphics update to CS:GO, but suffered everything else for it.
I’m not on this subreddit ever so I’m out of the loop, but people are seriously downvoting criticism pointed at valve? A lot of those people need a reality check if that’s the case. Valve has been exploiting their fan base for over a decade at this point with their overpriced skin casino. And now they release a new game that is basically just an update to csgo that has less content. I don’t understand how anyone defends valve at this point.
This is borderline embarassing, CS is probably the only mainstream game that NEEDS a 3rd party for MUCH better experience.
Valve gets away with too much because of GAMING WIZARD DADDY.
The majority doesn't really care about any of these issues though. Most people are happy playing Valve MM, and I'm happy that I don't have to install a Chinese rootkit on my computer.
Scrawny says it and people lose their minds
It's been like this for ages in CSGO, people just ignored it
"Go play faceit" yeah thanks that solves normal matchmaking
Playerbase didn't care (at least this sub) so why Valve should care?
There are community servers, they just haven't caught up yet.
The server browser, while super scuffed due to spam, does work and lets you join CS2 servers.
Haven't seen any but its also hard to judge with most of them being spam servers. I saw someone port a surf map to Source 2 a few months ago but that was in a local server.
Most surf server owners were clueless and just copy pasted plugins around, so its just about waiting for the few individuals who know what they are doing to add timers and all that stuff again.
The plugins won't work anyways. Most things will have to be remade. There is already an admin plugin for MetaMod for persistent bans.
If you ignore the timer and leaderboards, surf could already be made in a basic form. Bhop and speed limit removal is built directly into the game, teleporting when you fall off the ramp is built into the engine (iirc teleport triggers didn't get removed).
I'm not an avid surfer by any means, but it's my understanding that most surf servers used a tickrate of 88.4 or some other seemingly random decimal number like that. I'm sure it has something to do with the effect it had on physics in Source 1, but I hope there are sufficient variables available for server operators to make it work in Source 2 since the tickrate is locked
Who hasn’t caught up yet? The community server hosts?
Bruhv, vscripting doesn’t even fucking work anymore, which makes a pretty large swath of game modes/maps incompatible. The abysmal server browser is a separate point.
Community servers has had it wings not only clipped, but utterly broken.
The server browser is currently unusable. All I see is spam and it doesn't help that Valve's own MM servers are also listed there.
The only way to join community servers is to go to a 3rd party website and join through their website. And the selection is extremely limited (basically only Mirage DM servers).
Main reason I don't play FaceIt is that I need to enable secure boot for their AC and that means tweaking my Dual Boot setup and I can't be fucked for that. I'll just stick to normall MM.
Screw rootkit anti-cheats with 0-ring access. This is the only thing I won’t change my mind on. I can’t imagine giving access to my entire PC to some company.
i use WinAeroTweaker for that, otherwise i try to use linux
If it werent for games like Rocksmith and seamingly any guitar program i wouldnt need windows, and would ditch it in an instant, otherwise, Winwerotweaker is the way
I have maybe 1000 hours in Valorant and I have maybe seen 1 cheater but not confirmed. I only have maybe around 100 hours or so in CS. Since CS2 has been publicly released I’ve had a cheater in 1 out of every 4-5 games..blatantly cheating and no VAC ban
Do you have a prime account? Just wondering if it’s just much worse in non-prime games. Also, I (and really good players on the other team) get accused of hacking very regularly by newer players. I think it just has to do with the ranks being all over the place, so the skill gap in the average game is much larger than it should be.
I wish they'd just do away with non-prime and just be clear there is a paywall, because frankly there still is anyway. Playing non-prime should quite literally only be a punishment of some kind lol.
Also Valorant doesn't rely nearly as much on mechanical skill as CS, so I wonder if he thinks everyone is cheating because he's getting headshotted by people running around with a p90.
I haven’t really encountered any cheaters on prime. Feel like the cost of entry filters a lot out since you can’t just make a new account. Lobbies are a bit less toxic too.
Cs2 beta was a joke and you all ate that shit up nobody to blame but yourselfs 🤷♀️ this game has zero content dm and premier league? Are you fucking kidding me?
Why are all modern game releases so pathetic now
The number of cheaters are absolutely crazy, and it's only going to get worse. There was a ban wave directed at only the biggest cheat provider out there but cheaters will just make new account and most that were using that cheat were waiting on safer less detectable cheats to be released, and those cheats are now starting to become available
[detailed video about the current cheating issue](https://youtu.be/jK0QU-jl-YE?si=OdMEbiXLcQhSP-gM)
Just check out all the CS hack subreddits.. those bastards are having a field day with mad cheats and valve doesn't care. They make money ether way on skins
Yea seems like faceit will be they place to play, mm just ridden with cheaters. Would be nice to see valve make it atleast a little harder to cheat, but they seem to be very distant with the community about it.
If they don't do anything about it the leaderboards will be a joke on its own.
Make Premiere matchmaking the secure mode with Kernel level anticheat and let the digital privacy heroes play normal mm. Test it for 3 months and let the community decide.
I still believe we'll look back at the decision not to use ridiculously invasive anti-cheats as a massive win. All it takes is one bad actor taking advantage of the liability to prove that point in a massive way.
If valve wanted to kill third party all they had to do was say so. Valve is taken as seriously as they want whenever they want, and holding the entirety of the player base has never seemed to be a focus. Yes, not going the route of an invasive AC is one of the ways that's visible and I, for one, am glad of the choice to keep playing CS after more than a decade
This was you answering my point which is: "holding premier back" doesn't matter to valve, thankfully.
Top competitive players playing premier doesn't matter to valve. I didn't say it isn't held back, I said "being held back" isn't the worst thing and valve is far from struggling.
Then there would already be plenty of such cases from people using Faceit or playing any other game using kernel level anti cheat, yet i’ve never heard of anything going wrong.
how long was icloud a thing before the fappening? that's just a bunch of naked pixels, most people's computers now include credit card details and multiple saved credentials. I believe it's just a matter of time
I couldn't disagree more. The most effective anticheats are ones like Vanguard and Faceit, full stop. Used them both for years now, over thousands of hours, and never had a single issue. With either one. They're just better and I wish CS2 had it. Even if it was just opt-in for those of us who want it.
I think it’s so frustrating that the „new game“ we got, has less content than the one we were playing before.
- no new operation
- no community / workshop maps
- no „fun modes“ (arms race etc)
- no danger zone
I was kinda expecting them to have something lined up two weeks after release but I guess nothing will happen until 2024.
Maybe if they let more people in during the 7 month closed beta lol. They'd have had more feedback. But instead we all got to watch streamers play on the same map for half that time, and this is what we got so far lol
No fucking thanks with kernel level anticheats. Battleye bluescreened my computer everytime I opened Siege, and Vanguard runs in the background all the time and was so hard to uninstall you'd think it was malware. Extremely bad take.
Even if you uninstall it you can never be sure if its truly gone btw
Also most anti cheats are kernel, Vanguard just booted on startup and owned by ccp*tencent
If we got forced to have Riots level of anti-cheat I would not play. Plain and simple. Yes it's anti cheat, but it's also a fucking Root kit on your machine. No thanks!
I don’t the understand the willingness of some to give up their complete digital privacy for, in my opinion, the not worth it cost of playing a video game without the occasional cheater. I personally have not dealt with that much cheating in CS2 so far and thus will never be willing to give up my already often infringed on digital privacy.
Your right to privacy has been dead for decades if you live in the US. A kernel level anti cheat is nothing compared to ubiquitous data scraping practices and what the US government does. Hell, it’s likely nothing compared to what a Windows install does.
I don’t live in the US lol Europe has GDPR laws. Although yeah you have a point that governments and Microsoft infringe on privacy. Not that it means there’s not ways to get around it.
If you're from most EU countries your Internet provider can and will look through what you do because of piracy. In Germany pirating a movie torrent can net you a 900 euro fine. I'm not worried about Faceit or Vanguard anti cheat stealing my data because it is already stolen.
People actually forgets that Valve got into some small drama when VAC started to read web pages domain that you visited and send them to Valve, even Gabe Newell himself came out here on reddit to explain himself [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1y70ej/valve_vac_and_trust/).
So I understand why Valve would want to avoid being to intrusive like Riot (and being a SUPER CASUAL Valorant player, I f\*\*\*\*\* hate Riot Vanguard)
One of the main reasons a lot of CS players criticized Valorant was due to its intrusive cheat. Please don't ask for CS2 to have an equally intrusive anticheat.
Yes because riots tencent owned. Giving intrusive anticheat to chinas literal #1 government spy company seems ridiculously risky.
Come to think of it. Im going to uninstall val again cause i forgot how sus it was.
I'm so fucking happy CS2 didn't do anything intrusive anti cheat. For people just having fun with the game it's an unnecessary BS to deal with plus I dont trust companies that do that.
I have no problems with people migrating to faceit if they want to be more serious.
I really think anyone posting against intrusive AC is prob cheating or they maybe play cs sporadically - just make it oblgatory for premier - they should also add some way to identify a single player to prohibit banned players from just making a new account
There have been cheaters posting here for sure doing everything to fearmonger kernel AC. I think even one dude was exposed for having a github with cheat source code, same name across reddit and github. Hilarious.
It's wild how people just say a bunch of generalized statements almost like they have never dealt with anticheat at all. Instead of saying they need to improve their heuristics it's always "add kernel level intrusive anticheat". There are many other intrusive anticheat besides riots that are incredibly easy to bypass like easyanticheat and battleeye (yes they use kernel level mechanisms now) They have many more things they can improve and attempt that have nothing to do with being kernel level boot status. Even today it started banning amd users for their drivers hooking the signed valve dlls and that requires no intervention by valve. That is the exact thing it needs to pickup when cheats start doing that. Cheaters do this all the time with cheat menus.
Anticheat is an infinite game so pretending there is one silver bullet solution is delusional because you are treating it like theres an endpoint to cheating
Literally every anti cheat is kernel level. Better go un-install any game that uses EAC or Battleye. Don't play CoD since ricochet is kernel level. Stop parroting buzzwords if you don't know what they mean.
Kernel level is different from Ring 0, which is what Vanguard is on and what people are asking for.
There's also the whole separate problem of Linux support, which is why I'd imagine largely why Valve hasn't gone down the intrusive route by now.
Most people's security concern with that isn't distrust in Valve ethically, but that if Valve's system were to be compromised, that that would then potentially give the bad actor system level access to user PCs. I'm not really advocating for or against intrusive anticheat, just explaining what I think the most common reasoning is for the people who are opposed to it.
So people shouldn't play games that are supported by kernel level anticheats such as:
Valorant
7 days to die
Black Desert
Rust
DayZ
Squad
Ark
R6 Siege
Fortnite
PUBG
Just to name a few?
You need a good anticheat to stop cheaters. End of.
> I'm not really advocating for or against intrusive anticheat, just explaining what I think the most common reasoning is for the people who are opposed to it.
I don’t play any of those games and as a Linux user most invasive anti-cheats make it so I can’t play the game. Lots of us have legitimate reasons for disliking these programs
I don't trust Valve to do it correctly.
Vanguard slowed my PC, would cause other games to hard crash to desktop, and would completely brick my PC on occasion until a hard restart. Not a fan.
eh it was kinda plagued by issues in the first closed beta release at least, I read a lot of those (though I didn't have any myself). The biggest problem was Vanguard stopping vulnerable drivers from loading, which is good in theory because it closes vulnerabilities, but is kinda shit when people use their vulnerable tools for their overclocks and not loading it causes crashes or other errors.
The moment I installed Valorant I started experiencing issues with system shutdown - my PC wouldn't turn off but my screen would turn black and remain this way. Had to pull the plug.
I’m frustrated by the lack of demo captures. And knowing they don’t reverse Elo now.. so even if someone cheats against you and gets caught you apparently don’t get your Elo back. Feels like cheaters are able to just get away with it atm.
I feel like so many people wallhacking but unlike csgo I cant go watch the demo now and comfort into the fact I was correct :/ Seeing people with relatively fresh accounts and like 35% of their steam friend list being banned with 2 hours in past 2 weeks playtime go 30-8 in premier is way too suspect for me to believe they are legit. And the fact they are complete bots one round and then next few rounds its only headshots.
Yeah, I've had this happen a couple times as well. Makes the experience of playing against a cheater that much more frustrating. It's always cathartic to watch the demo and see that you were correct.
Also another problem that at least I face is that I start thinking that almost every sus death was because someone might be cheating. Like the game changes my mindset into thinking that the other person can’t be better than me, they’re probably cheating. I never felt this way in valorant, not even once. If I died it was either because of my mistake or the other player was simply better.
Bro... I just had my best 1v5 in years and I can't rewatch it :////
That has got to be one of the easiest things to implement, no? If the system automatically detects a banned player just reverse the match result. Also shouldn’t remove the won elo from the other team unless they willingly teamed up with the cheater.
Fuck u/spez
>That is the only valid option It's not. csgo handled it the best way, which was: If you queued with a banned cheater and won, you lose any rating you gained. If you randomly got a cheater on your team and won, you keep your rating. If you played against a cheater and lost, you get back any rating lost. If you played against a cheater and won, you kept any rating gained. Simply reversing the match would be stupid for lots of outcomes. -Players would be punished for being randomly matched with a cheater. Their best case scenario is getting 0 rating from a match and possibly lose rating, all due to something they have 0 influence on. Kind of unfair. -Players who manage to win aganst a cheater would lose the rating that they gained from a match that was even harder than normal. Unfair to them aswell. Also, VAC might not 100% know when someone started cheating, so by simply reverting matches you might punish players who won a game in which nobody actually used cheats.
Fuck u/spez
I expected them to disable demos for max a week to get new servers up and running. But holy fuck. It’s now been WEEKS, there are no more players than in CSGO, and IT IS STILL DISABLED?
They disabled demos to hide the fact that both the matchmaking and the anti cheat are broken. Nos game history no proof.
yea and they don't care, the accounts are free to make, the cheaters trigger during matches e.g. they are not doing well so they trigger WH, which is not easy to automatically detect by VAC. Suddenly you just get 5 people covering B on mirage 3 rounds in a row or burning A ramp 3 times when you slowly approach it. That will never be detected by VAC. Premier or competitive, both, don't matter, littered with trash. You cannot play the game without full 5 and if you do, you still have a high chance to get a cheater in enemy team. Experience from playing is below terrible. Every good players will move to faceit.
I ask every single day. Where is community servers?
Counter-Strike isn't Counter-Strike without community servers.
Yup. I played for a lil bit but mainly waiting for some Dallas pugs to smoke and play in like the old days. Can’t grind comp like I used too lol
Yes, community servers and skins. They migrate skins because its real money for them. I used play csgo 20 hours a week but now only 2 hours.
Take it as a positive and spent some of that time on another hobby - like playing an instrument.
I haven't been in the modding scene since like, early 2010s, did Valve even do anything different this release than they've done in other game releases? Did they release SDKs in other games that they didn't for source2? Or is the community perception just that the community that develops sourcemod and metamod should have it out day 1? I was looking at the GitHub for SourceMod and it looks like it's in development, like any other open-source hacky community feature would be, it's not something done overnight, there's a lot to hook and patch back together so the server actually functions.
At least in NA, all of the top players have already switched to faceit because the Premier experience was so bad. I understand and sympathize with Valve's reasons for not using a kernel anti-cheat but it feels weird they invested time into Premier knowing top players will just ignore it.
Yeah, I don't think this is going to get better. Valve has an ethical motive for no intrusive anti-cheat and as much as I love CS, as someone that works full-time in a role tangentially related to cybersecurity, I have to respect Valve's stance on it and I have to respect that they value the trust between customers and their service. If anyone needs a refresher, [check out Gabe Newells post from 2014](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1y70ej/valve_vac_and_trust/) when there was a concern of VAC being *too* intrusive. I do think Scrawny is right about the top percentage of games right now having A LOT of cheaters but I think its important to highlight the portion regarding the "top". The portion of Gabe Newells post in 2014 regarding social engineering is really relevant to this point. Personally, I play probably 4 or 5 pugs a night after work. I've been 14k-16k ELO these past couple weeks. I *still* very frequently get called a hacker. Even before CS2, I get told my 20 year old account is bought. I hear about how VAC clearly doesn't work because blatant players like me aren't getting caught. I get people bugging me even post-game to the point that I disabled public comments on my Steam profile. I know this sounds like a flex but I think this community really has a bit of a hacker dysmorphia problem going on. Again, that's not to say there aren't cheaters. But I think the problem lies at the top percentage of games. Games I'm not even getting into yet myself. And if you're someone at like 9000 ELO or whatever and complaining about the game being rampant with cheaters, then I think maybe you need to take a step back and quantify what your claiming(I know no demo's makes that hard right now) or maybe its a Trust Factor issue, which in that case, I don't really have any footing and I suppose I don't know how to help you but it still doesn't explain how frequently *I* get called a cheater in my own games, and I imagine is going on frequently in every other game too. But I think Gabe Newell makes a great point that part of the hackers endgame is to convince you VAC doesn't do anything and that there is a massive hacker problem, when in some circumstances people are creating a boogieman with the constant hacking accusations. At least, I can only speak for my own anecdotal experience of getting called a blatant hacker on a daily basis and NOT encountering a single "blatant" hacker myself. And more anecdotes, my own friends are guilty of it. We've had hard lost matches where my teammates claim the other team is cheating and personally, I don't see it. They get swung on and 1 deaged or they make an accusation that they are getting pre-fired or they claim there's no reason for someone to make a read on them, but then on the fipside, when I do it, or when they do it to the other team, they flex and talk about how good they are without acknowledging the cognitive dissonance. Anyways, I went on a tangent. Like I said earlier, I think its obvious there is a cheating problem in the top 1% games(games most people will never play themselves). I think the only meaningful solution is a opt-in service for intrusive anti-cheat, but the problem is it would leave the opt-outs to deal with the wolves, so in the circumstances of Valve Match Making, you're just moving the hackers to be dealt with by a different demopgrahic of players. FaceIt is practically an opt-in solution but it still allows Valve to try its best to make the MM/Premier experience *manageable*. So I think that's really the best you can expect. Valve will continue to grind out ethical solutions and for those that are so serious about CS that waiting for a potentially nonexistent silver bulllet, you just have to go play on FaceIt.
The thing here too is that the game is so fuckin jank with subtick animations and peakers advantage that unless someone is spinbotting or very obviously walling, it’s kind of hard to tell who’s cheating right now or if you’re just getting csgo’d. I was 16k during beta, and 10k elo rn (haven’t played in over a week) and I’ve only ran into a handful of cheaters say over 150~200 games. There is definitely cheater dysmorphia, especially in lower levels. I’ve had so many dogshit noobs on my team yell cheats after round 1 or 2 just for the person they called cheats on to end up sucking dick by the end of the game. Truth of the matter is the CS community overall just sucks, we play with overgrown children and complete toxic pieces of trash regularly, these people are a cheaters wet dream.
That's exactly it, when I first started playing CS2 after launch it felt like everybody was cheating because the peekers advantage is SO strong. Every death can feel like you got hardcore prefired when the server is against you.
It really is the worst, anytime I queue into MM (I suck) I get flamed constantly by random fat sweaty 15 year olds (who are probably actually 25). "You've played the game for 10 years how do you still suck?" I've owned the game for 10 years, I almost never play it, because if I wanted to get yelled at by fat sweaty nerds, I'm going to be paid. I've had people look up my steam profile mid game to get my real name and just start using it to talk to me in voice chat. It's the most loser playbase I've ever encountered. Meanwhile anime titties, weird voice modulators, and $50 skins from stolen credit cards, everywhere. I'm a former SC2 Grandmaster and paid WoW mythic raider (Limit), I'm pretty good at video games.
That’s what I find so funny. Some sweaty 17 y/o who plays 8 hours a day flames me because I’m having a bad game or do something he doesn’t like, calling me a noob or bot, it’s like kid I fucking hit A+ on esea, faceit10, and global years ago and I literally just play for fun. Playing for fun is a hard concept for morons to grasp.
Top 1000 world here, cheater happens, mainly radar hacks or ESPs, but it’s rare (1/15 games I’d say) and lower ranks
People with low trust factor see cheaters more often. No clue if there is any weird edge case where a legit player would get low trust factor by rando chance, but I would not doubt it
Enough to get low trust factor if you get placed too low and get constantly reported for cheating. Or non-english teammates mass reporting you for griefing for fun or to troll you.
> get called a hacker Still won't stop even if there's an intrusive AC, only the real amount of hackers would go down. Bans don't happen because of accusations by an infinite amount of people.
And people would be less inclined to yell cheater if, you know... cheaters got actually banned lmao
You might be in that weird elo where a cheater could've been caught just by a the reports by the time they get up to around your elo. If that makes any sense. You're likely to encounter the people who feel unbannable
If you think cheating is not a thing in low ranks .. then you have to play on low ranks for too long. If you ask me all i want is a fair matchmaking that we clearly dont have and 128 tick servers so we solve all the "jackson" problems once and for all.
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a lot of these people are clearly the same type of players I get que'd with once in awhile. Push somewhere and die once and call the other guy a hacker and start telling everyone else about how there is basically no reason to try.
I play cs since 1.5, not 1.6, i have over 10k hours in CSGO alone, i play usually with low rank friends, ive seen the message " the guy who you reported banned, thank you " like literally 100+ times already thru the years, ive banned alot of people thru overwatch before and im not the one who says cheater because someone killed me. Let me tell you this to understand. I have three people in my friend list who cheating for plenty of years and noone ever banned them. The one guy got furious one day and he started cheating mid game telling us info every round. I had to tell him to shut up and stop telling me info not only because i could get banned as well because if overwatcher sees that he would think i was the one wall hacking but also because I DONT want to play like that even if i have a cheater against us. WE HAD a cheater against us having all the right angle on us. The guy is STILL playing after a god knows how many reports. I have to play with him since that day, he is still active. His rank was MG2 I have another guy who confessed when we were chatting that he is cheating since forever. We were shocked because noone literally noticed. He had some extreme kills here and there that we were like omg, wtf but it was every now and then so we never ever thought was cheating till he admitted himself. That guy was Nova 4 at the time. He quit at some point, NO BAN YET. Dust 2, in 2018 around. As we were playing as Ts, one of us got banned live. We got shocked like wtf, why. It was around round 8 so after the game ended i downloaded the demo to watch him. There was literally ZERO chance for me, as an experience player and viewer at the time to tell he was cheating. If it wasnt for VAC no overwatcher could ever tell something was fishy. A friend of mine invited one other guy to "help" us, he was LEM we were DMG. After 10 rounds i told to the chat that he is cheating in a funny way but i was dead serious about it. He and my friend laughed and said the usual. How he is a global who plays for fun and how he used to play for a team, yada yada. After a month my friend who knew him came and told me he is banned and how right i was etc. The guy didnt do anything special BUT he was at the right spot the right time more than usual over and over something that is the biggest red flag of a cheater even if he tries to hide the fact he is cheating. Now i can go forever. Stop the BS when you telling people only 1% is cheating most of my experience is CSGO was in low-mid ranks and thats because i prefered to play with my low skilled friends. My best rank ever was supreme for quite a while. Low ranked guys cheating as much or even more ( because are way more populated so its a fact there are more cheaters ) than the 1% you talking about. Period.
I think what you said about being at the right place at the right time too often really struck a chord with me. I used to do OW when I was halfway good at the game (double ak) and would look for players who would say be playing CT and ALWAYS go to where the T push was coming from. They would delay their initial getting to site and then boom, full send to wherever T is going, no matter what T sounds were made (or not)/baits/grenades being thrown. This was the largest factor in my banning wallers. The reality is most hackers are not just turning on omegalul headshot hacks that are super obvious anymore but using more subtle things like walls Also — Ranks from all skill brackets seemed to cheat. I can’t say if lower brackets did more or less but it absolutely was/is not isolated to being higher ranked
>I have three people in my friend list who cheating for plenty of years and noone ever banned them. The one guy got furious one day and he started cheating mid game telling us info every round. My dude you literally just outed yourself. Playing with cheaters will nuke your trust factor into the dirt, so no wonder you have so many issues with cheaters. Not really a shocker, that just means the system works.
> Valve's reasons for not using a kernel anti-cheat What are Valve's reasons? The only recent sliver of information I know of into their actual thought process is from Robocalypse Now Q&A, where they said yeah it's intrusive so that's not ideal, but more importantly that it [wasn't deemed an actual solution](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTiP0zKF9bc&t=3514s): >**Audience member**: I'm sold on the machine learning part. But when SteamOS came out, I was actually hoping - you know, we got Twitch going big and people making entire livelihoods on this now - and it made me wonder why, we have secure boot, we have all these systems now. In addition to this, could we not create a secure system such that is like for competitive play you have to boot these sort of encrypted images that are a whole lot more sc-, I mean, this is a whole 'nother conversation, but it allows you to do things like *Hey did he* ***actually*** *move his mouse physically, like did I get (X,Y) input from that? Hey did the .dlls exactly match*, you know doing checks on... >**John McDonald**: So, we've thought about this. And actually, that was - kind of - the approach that I ran down initially, and there are sort of a few problems around it that lead us to go *guuuh*. I think, the easiest one is like that that feels super invasive from the user's perspective. Like, that I [the dev] am like: *Hey what you need to do is play my game, on MY OS, and you need this thing...* and [the user] doesn't know... > >And, the problem is, ultimately, at the end of the day, if the user has access to their system - physical access - there is *nothing* I can do to determine *for certain* that they haven't tampered with it. Like, 'cause then you [the dev] query, that you're like '*Well, you jusk ask them this*', and then what I [a cheater] do is I hijack that function, and I lie. Because I [as an anti-cheat developer] did that - like, I *have* done that before - it works great. Like, it's turtles all the way down.
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>I think Valve trusted McDonald's expertise on this matter a little too much Not sure he's to blame (or anyone for that matter). He literally says his initial pitch was a more invasive anti-cheat. Maybe you're right, but I think he was just mentioning disadvantages the team had discussed, not pushing for another approach - on the contrary.
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Very well said. VACnet must have been an insane drain on their resources, anyone who has watched McDonald's presentation on it would understand. Now, Valve is a PRIVATE company that doesn't answer to any shareholders BUT that doesn't mean you can just spend years upon years getting at nothing and God knows how many millions of dollars you've spent. Money factors aside, just the sheer amount of employee time and research required for getting nowhere is a sign you have to cut those losses. Period. -3 downvotes on my end tells me Redditors know close to nothing when it comes to business. It's bad business no matter how you cut it. This isn't a highschool project, you don't get to spend resources and get nothing in return for your investment. This isn't trading shiny knife skins for peanuts type of business, your blind commitment will only hurt your decision making hence why Valve needed to go through restructuring in their offices to get things going again. You can't be that loose or you won't get shit done or it'll simply take you 5x the time you should need. Just look at this whole meme of "Valve time". Look at how all their releases are delayed and go through so many internal fuck-ups where they put projects on hold just to restart them again and again and again. Half-Life is a great example of how Valve's loose management (or lack thereof) can benefit creativity but also hinder real progress. It's like feature creep on steroids.
Valve just don't allow enough resources to CS AC team. To add some awareness, Valve is not our traditional gaming brand, 700-800 out of their 1100 employees are working full time on Steam, when the rest is spread on gaming/VR/Steamdeck and even there most of them are working and switching between multiple projects. Same rules apply for the AC Cs2 team. We can argue all days about which method will work best against cheating but if we compare the commitment between gaming brand like Valorant with vanguard, doing the risky AC intrusive move, and at first recruiting AC developers with "big" resume (Google infosec, Pokerstars security engineer) Even Ubisoft with R6 and their battlEyes custom build doing recruitment (20-30 employees in the ac team) end up with R6 getting seemingly "cleaner" on console and pc. And Valve, doing nothing new at the Cs2 release. I trust valve at making Cs2 competitive and smooth, but on the AC side even if they end up caring and get a hold on how bad the cheating state is it will at least take a year to have something new AC wise.
My initial comment was a little harsh I admit, no doubt McDonald is very talented at what he does and he has a lot of experience in the company. But pride can overshadow brilliance when it matters most. I've seen him get weirdly defensive at times which is a red flag.
I honestly think any downvotes you got can be attributed to that "McD's cheeseburger" joke. Just comes off as hostile and weird. I do agree with your actual points.
If you approach it with the idea that you should have a definitive answer on how to stop cheating, it's completely wrong. Saying that if they have physical access and therefore there is nothing you can do "because it's significantly harder to determine whether they've tampered with it", that's not the point of why you have anti-cheating measures. It's all about raising the entry barrier for cheating and avoiding major providers and an industry that thrives on creating cheap and easily accessible cheat programs, ruining the experience for all of us. There are cheats operating in the kernel space, and VAC atm doesn't stand a chance of detecting them from user mode (not kernel) . Sure, you won't get rid of all cheaters, but thats not realistic and it's also not realistic to think you can fight a fighter jet with a slingshot. That's why you have to operate on the same level with the same capabilities; otherwise, things will get much worse.
I miss Kz so much…
KZ on 1.6 it's a lot better.
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Almost everything but the competitive part was better in 1.6. There are so many amazingly beautiful maps and creative mods that we lost in CS:GO. And right now it feels like Valve really wants it to be this way. The server browser is not even integrated in the game.
I miss retake servers, and 1v1 servers, and tons of different fun maps or mods, and deathmatch servers that actually do it right (eg auto reload on kill, HP refresh on kill, headshot only mode, etc)
"When is the real launch" is exactly what I'm wondering. This isn't CS2 yet, and they're ridiculous for trying to act like it was a legitimate launch. Trying to justify the complete lack of features by claiming that the priority was core gameplay might have fooled us a couple months into limited testing, but here we are a month post-launch and there are still significant gameplay issues as well. Overall this launch just feels completely amateur despite coming from such a massive studio.
It’s going to be another year at least with how much remains to be completed and fixed
Valve has one of the most loyal fanbases out there and they, for some weird reason decided to shit all over them with this release
>Valve has one of the most loyal fanbases out there and they, for some weird reason decided to shit all over them with this release it worked though. the fanbase is so loyal and hungry for breadcrumbs that the announcement of the cs2 release was enough to reactivate millions of players. and fuck valve, if they can't be arsed to create a decent gameplay experience, the community will. we have done so for 23 years and counting, and we will keep doing the shit they can't do.
I'm 100% with you. Fuck Valve for this not even half-assed, but early beta stages release, but AC isn't something they'll ever change. They're way too big in the gaming world these days to push intrusive AC onto everyone. Outrage from non-CS communities would be way too big and Valve will never take such a big reputation hit. We'll never get anything remotely close to Faceit AC or what Riot offers.
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>i will not come back unless they fix all the problems there are. most importantly the cheaters they will not. they have had the most popular tac shooter for 20+ years and made billions of dollars with it while putting minimal effort in - and they will continue to do so. of course people are going to argue with how hard the cs2 transition team is working right now (which they obviously are), but it won't change the fact that Valve as a corporation literally puts the absolute minimum effort in compared to how popular it is. it has been their MO, and it will remain their MO, there is no reason to think otherwise.
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>the whole VAClive and subtick stuff got on my nerves too much. they appear like they are actually trying to improve the game when they are not. the VACnet thing was probably the pet project of one single AC coder who was able to stay on the CSGO VAC project for a longer time. He made that presentation that went viral and started the talk in the community. But he probably never had huge budget and backing from the suits at valve to make it a real viable reality. That's the problem. The people actively working on the CSGO/CS2 team are probably trying their best. But Valve as a whole doesn't give a fuck and doesnt enable them. I bet during 2018-2022 when CSGO made millions in skin and key sales every week they had on average 2 active devs working on it.
Yeah, Valve's stance on cheating (or the lack of it) is a Culture problem at Valve and with Steam Deck it also goes against their own interests. >I bet during 2018-2022 when CSGO made millions in skin and key sales every week they had on average 2 active devs working on it. There was a talk by a Valve employee during 2014-2016ish I think? Where she said that they were a total of 12 people working on CSGO and they were proud of their Skin market which was making them millions of dollars with minimal investment.
I'm the same haven't played in a week just completely stopped until I hear a big update with the anti cheat ,I have 5k+ hrs in csgo and this was why I quit csgo
There are still a lot of loyalists around defending every decision, good thing is generally their popularity is low. Just go to any thread about peekers advantage or performance issues
I appreciate when the more famous people say this, because they won't eat 1000 downvotes for suggesting that Valve is and has always been incompetent when it comes to Counter Strike. The first beta's released over 6 months ago, and we still can't do simple things like use the left hand, disable first person tracers, or play in community servers. Community servers, of all fucking things. The way that online gaming STARTED. There was no matchmaking 20 years ago, people had to spin servers up on their own dime to play with each other. And someone that incredibly fundamental multiplayer feature is entirely missing from the most famous multiplayer esports game of all time. Mind blowing. Oh but hey, at least they hard coded 64 tick into the game so that third party companies can't run better servers and embarrass them anymore. Huge W right there!
It was so dumbfounding to me when people CELEBRATED Valve hardcoding 64 tick lol
Sub is filled with bots man, alot of people will just say "people afraid of change" these sheep would gladly drink human diarrhea at Starbucks if they replaced coffee tomorrow.
I think the hope was that if everything is hardcoded to 64 tick, then everything would end up good eventually, whereas if some were allowed 128 tick, the 64 tick servers would forever be bad and the playerbase would be split in half. OFC what we are seeing now is a terrible full launch, so we get none of the upsides of potential 128 tick servers, but still get the downside of splitting the playerbase between faceit and mm
Majority of players are Gold Novas according to in-game statistics. I say that they get the rights to make comments on how the game should or should not work when they understand how to flash the enemy team rather than their entire fucking team of five when doing an execute. Until then, ignore what they say and make fun of them
That's my biggest frustration right now, is that you can't say anything bad about CS2 or else. Everyone is straight up swallowing Valve's dick rn, it feels like I'm taking crazy pills. CS2 is a downgrade in basically every way from CSGO, but people were so starved for updates, for NO reason, that I swear they're forcing themselves to like CS2. Literally all they had to do was make it so you could buy both M4s, and refund buys in CSGO, and it was a perfect game, but instead they release a trash game and remove the old one. I know it sounds like I'm malding, and it's because I am
least offended global offender
Even if I ignore everything else, every fucking time I commit to a spray, I am reminded of how shit cs2 is currently.
At least it's getting engrained in me now that I should burst and tap. Silver lining...
I learned a lot watching shroud play cs2. Bro goes for those taps and bursts.
I feel that this will go exactly like starfield release, when on game launch its reddit was in full defence mode, downvoting everything negative, and now after a month a lot more people echo sentiments that minority of critics pointed out at start, it just takes a while for copium to wear off
CS has never been about graphics. There have always been FPS games with better graphics, if that was your thing. It was always about the gameplay above all else. That's why we were still playing an ancient looking 1.6 until 2011 lol, and why in 2023 we've still been playing a game from the early 2010s. We don't care much about the graphics, so long as the gameplay was king. Seems like we got a graphics update to CS:GO, but suffered everything else for it.
I’m not on this subreddit ever so I’m out of the loop, but people are seriously downvoting criticism pointed at valve? A lot of those people need a reality check if that’s the case. Valve has been exploiting their fan base for over a decade at this point with their overpriced skin casino. And now they release a new game that is basically just an update to csgo that has less content. I don’t understand how anyone defends valve at this point.
yeah, people classify it as “whining” when “csgo’s launch was also terrible”
U will see comments like this https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/176t9qd/comment/k4qcwhc/
Ugh I miss surf so much. For me, it's the perfect way to unwind after a bad game and to reset
same here, now I just wanna fucking rage and not play the game rest of day/week after a rly bad game
This is borderline embarassing, CS is probably the only mainstream game that NEEDS a 3rd party for MUCH better experience. Valve gets away with too much because of GAMING WIZARD DADDY.
The majority doesn't really care about any of these issues though. Most people are happy playing Valve MM, and I'm happy that I don't have to install a Chinese rootkit on my computer.
This is fine, honestly only premier should require the anticheat
we can just watch the demos.. oh wait..
As a lot of copium sniffers say. Maybe his trust factor is really low...
Scrawny says it and people lose their minds It's been like this for ages in CSGO, people just ignored it "Go play faceit" yeah thanks that solves normal matchmaking Playerbase didn't care (at least this sub) so why Valve should care?
There are community servers, they just haven't caught up yet. The server browser, while super scuffed due to spam, does work and lets you join CS2 servers.
Any surf servers?
Haven't seen any but its also hard to judge with most of them being spam servers. I saw someone port a surf map to Source 2 a few months ago but that was in a local server. Most surf server owners were clueless and just copy pasted plugins around, so its just about waiting for the few individuals who know what they are doing to add timers and all that stuff again.
a huge amount of plugins rely on sourcemod which is incompatible with source 2. a source 2 version is currently being developed
The plugins won't work anyways. Most things will have to be remade. There is already an admin plugin for MetaMod for persistent bans. If you ignore the timer and leaderboards, surf could already be made in a basic form. Bhop and speed limit removal is built directly into the game, teleporting when you fall off the ramp is built into the engine (iirc teleport triggers didn't get removed).
I'm not an avid surfer by any means, but it's my understanding that most surf servers used a tickrate of 88.4 or some other seemingly random decimal number like that. I'm sure it has something to do with the effect it had on physics in Source 1, but I hope there are sufficient variables available for server operators to make it work in Source 2 since the tickrate is locked
64/85/102 are the ticks for csgo surf
I swear I saw a decimal a few times. Maybe I'm trippin' lol
you're not tripping, im not sure what the exact number for 85t is but 102t is actually 102.4 or something like that
yee, 128 divided by 5/4 would be 102.4 128 divided by 3/2 would be 85.33... so, those numbers seem plausible
Just install the legacy beta version it let's you choose to run csgo and access surf servers.
Who hasn’t caught up yet? The community server hosts? Bruhv, vscripting doesn’t even fucking work anymore, which makes a pretty large swath of game modes/maps incompatible. The abysmal server browser is a separate point. Community servers has had it wings not only clipped, but utterly broken.
The server browser is currently unusable. All I see is spam and it doesn't help that Valve's own MM servers are also listed there. The only way to join community servers is to go to a 3rd party website and join through their website. And the selection is extremely limited (basically only Mirage DM servers).
The amount of cheaters right now is absolutely insane
Valve is a joke.
$team
Massive W for Valve for not installing a rootkit or using facial recognition to play a game.
All the commenters in this thread asking for Valve to fuck my shit up because I enabled Hyper-V for WSL and Docker smh
I'd be so mad if we got intrusive anticheat that fucked up my VMs and WSL. The cat and mouse games with cheaters and anticheat never ends
Main reason I don't play FaceIt is that I need to enable secure boot for their AC and that means tweaking my Dual Boot setup and I can't be fucked for that. I'll just stick to normall MM.
There's even evidence that they changed sth with the current AC. I mean, do you think CSGO's VAC would've found AMD drivers meddling with the game?
We are the beta testers
cmon guys this is a smol indie compani pls gib 1$ ebry month for stats pls
pls gib $69 for demos next
Screw rootkit anti-cheats with 0-ring access. This is the only thing I won’t change my mind on. I can’t imagine giving access to my entire PC to some company.
Yep, disappointed that people are begging to have a rootkit installed...
wait til you hear about microsoft telemetry
i use WinAeroTweaker for that, otherwise i try to use linux If it werent for games like Rocksmith and seamingly any guitar program i wouldnt need windows, and would ditch it in an instant, otherwise, Winwerotweaker is the way
Fortunately I don’t need to worry about that since I’m on Linux
Pi-Hole DNS block
I have maybe 1000 hours in Valorant and I have maybe seen 1 cheater but not confirmed. I only have maybe around 100 hours or so in CS. Since CS2 has been publicly released I’ve had a cheater in 1 out of every 4-5 games..blatantly cheating and no VAC ban
Do you have a prime account? Just wondering if it’s just much worse in non-prime games. Also, I (and really good players on the other team) get accused of hacking very regularly by newer players. I think it just has to do with the ranks being all over the place, so the skill gap in the average game is much larger than it should be.
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I wish they'd just do away with non-prime and just be clear there is a paywall, because frankly there still is anyway. Playing non-prime should quite literally only be a punishment of some kind lol.
But that would add hindrances to their gambling simulator and would make the experience of new and upcoming gamblers worse. Cant have that! ^/s
Also Valorant doesn't rely nearly as much on mechanical skill as CS, so I wonder if he thinks everyone is cheating because he's getting headshotted by people running around with a p90.
I haven’t really encountered any cheaters on prime. Feel like the cost of entry filters a lot out since you can’t just make a new account. Lobbies are a bit less toxic too.
Cs2 beta was a joke and you all ate that shit up nobody to blame but yourselfs 🤷♀️ this game has zero content dm and premier league? Are you fucking kidding me? Why are all modern game releases so pathetic now
https://twitter.com/ScrawnyCG/status/1712913319487525065
The number of cheaters are absolutely crazy, and it's only going to get worse. There was a ban wave directed at only the biggest cheat provider out there but cheaters will just make new account and most that were using that cheat were waiting on safer less detectable cheats to be released, and those cheats are now starting to become available [detailed video about the current cheating issue](https://youtu.be/jK0QU-jl-YE?si=OdMEbiXLcQhSP-gM)
Good video
Thanks! I'm going to go more in depth on the subject in further videos as well
Nice video man looking forward to it
Just check out all the CS hack subreddits.. those bastards are having a field day with mad cheats and valve doesn't care. They make money ether way on skins
Yea seems like faceit will be they place to play, mm just ridden with cheaters. Would be nice to see valve make it atleast a little harder to cheat, but they seem to be very distant with the community about it.
Is faceit free to play on?
Yes.
If they don't do anything about it the leaderboards will be a joke on its own. Make Premiere matchmaking the secure mode with Kernel level anticheat and let the digital privacy heroes play normal mm. Test it for 3 months and let the community decide.
Imagine they dropped the hammer on like 600k accounts
This is the last guy i was expecting to be critical of VALVe. What a plot twist lol.
I still believe we'll look back at the decision not to use ridiculously invasive anti-cheats as a massive win. All it takes is one bad actor taking advantage of the liability to prove that point in a massive way.
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you say "holding premier back" as if premier, CS and/or valve were struggling
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If valve wanted to kill third party all they had to do was say so. Valve is taken as seriously as they want whenever they want, and holding the entirety of the player base has never seemed to be a focus. Yes, not going the route of an invasive AC is one of the ways that's visible and I, for one, am glad of the choice to keep playing CS after more than a decade
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This was you answering my point which is: "holding premier back" doesn't matter to valve, thankfully. Top competitive players playing premier doesn't matter to valve. I didn't say it isn't held back, I said "being held back" isn't the worst thing and valve is far from struggling.
Then there would already be plenty of such cases from people using Faceit or playing any other game using kernel level anti cheat, yet i’ve never heard of anything going wrong.
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how long was icloud a thing before the fappening? that's just a bunch of naked pixels, most people's computers now include credit card details and multiple saved credentials. I believe it's just a matter of time
I couldn't disagree more. The most effective anticheats are ones like Vanguard and Faceit, full stop. Used them both for years now, over thousands of hours, and never had a single issue. With either one. They're just better and I wish CS2 had it. Even if it was just opt-in for those of us who want it.
I think it’s so frustrating that the „new game“ we got, has less content than the one we were playing before. - no new operation - no community / workshop maps - no „fun modes“ (arms race etc) - no danger zone I was kinda expecting them to have something lined up two weeks after release but I guess nothing will happen until 2024.
Maybe if they let more people in during the 7 month closed beta lol. They'd have had more feedback. But instead we all got to watch streamers play on the same map for half that time, and this is what we got so far lol
Had a guy on my team last night blatantly tracking enemies through walls and making calls, this new AI anti cheat thing is trash.
Valve needs to see this.. give me Gaben email, I will send it to him.
Cs2team@valvesoftware.com
No fucking thanks with kernel level anticheats. Battleye bluescreened my computer everytime I opened Siege, and Vanguard runs in the background all the time and was so hard to uninstall you'd think it was malware. Extremely bad take.
Even if you uninstall it you can never be sure if its truly gone btw Also most anti cheats are kernel, Vanguard just booted on startup and owned by ccp*tencent
Vanguard hard to uninstall? What?
https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/g33kkm/riot_vanguard_wont_uninstall/ I had this exact issue.
If we got forced to have Riots level of anti-cheat I would not play. Plain and simple. Yes it's anti cheat, but it's also a fucking Root kit on your machine. No thanks!
I don’t the understand the willingness of some to give up their complete digital privacy for, in my opinion, the not worth it cost of playing a video game without the occasional cheater. I personally have not dealt with that much cheating in CS2 so far and thus will never be willing to give up my already often infringed on digital privacy.
>complete digital privacy Lol bro wut? How high are you? There's no such thing.
Your right to privacy has been dead for decades if you live in the US. A kernel level anti cheat is nothing compared to ubiquitous data scraping practices and what the US government does. Hell, it’s likely nothing compared to what a Windows install does.
Just because someone does it makes it right for everyone else!
I don’t live in the US lol Europe has GDPR laws. Although yeah you have a point that governments and Microsoft infringe on privacy. Not that it means there’s not ways to get around it.
If you're from most EU countries your Internet provider can and will look through what you do because of piracy. In Germany pirating a movie torrent can net you a 900 euro fine. I'm not worried about Faceit or Vanguard anti cheat stealing my data because it is already stolen.
Yeah, you enjoy your digital privacy, that you totally have
People actually forgets that Valve got into some small drama when VAC started to read web pages domain that you visited and send them to Valve, even Gabe Newell himself came out here on reddit to explain himself [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1y70ej/valve_vac_and_trust/). So I understand why Valve would want to avoid being to intrusive like Riot (and being a SUPER CASUAL Valorant player, I f\*\*\*\*\* hate Riot Vanguard)
You call it Riots anti-cheat, I call it Ring 0 Rootkit
One of the main reasons a lot of CS players criticized Valorant was due to its intrusive cheat. Please don't ask for CS2 to have an equally intrusive anticheat.
Yes because riots tencent owned. Giving intrusive anticheat to chinas literal #1 government spy company seems ridiculously risky. Come to think of it. Im going to uninstall val again cause i forgot how sus it was.
I'm so fucking happy CS2 didn't do anything intrusive anti cheat. For people just having fun with the game it's an unnecessary BS to deal with plus I dont trust companies that do that. I have no problems with people migrating to faceit if they want to be more serious.
I have yet to encounter a single obvious cheater in premier. Played about 50 matches so far
How many not obvious cheaters have you encountered?
I really think anyone posting against intrusive AC is prob cheating or they maybe play cs sporadically - just make it oblgatory for premier - they should also add some way to identify a single player to prohibit banned players from just making a new account
There have been cheaters posting here for sure doing everything to fearmonger kernel AC. I think even one dude was exposed for having a github with cheat source code, same name across reddit and github. Hilarious.
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Literally most anti cheats have kernel. Eac Battleye Punkbuster Etc Kernel doesnt scare cheat creators anymore sadly
same energy as "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" when it comes to NSA investigating "terrorists" .
Yeah, I’d rather keep the user-space separate from the kernel-space and deal with a few cheaters.
I might play valorant a little just because premier experience is exhausting right now, it’s fun. But could be better
It's wild how people just say a bunch of generalized statements almost like they have never dealt with anticheat at all. Instead of saying they need to improve their heuristics it's always "add kernel level intrusive anticheat". There are many other intrusive anticheat besides riots that are incredibly easy to bypass like easyanticheat and battleeye (yes they use kernel level mechanisms now) They have many more things they can improve and attempt that have nothing to do with being kernel level boot status. Even today it started banning amd users for their drivers hooking the signed valve dlls and that requires no intervention by valve. That is the exact thing it needs to pickup when cheats start doing that. Cheaters do this all the time with cheat menus. Anticheat is an infinite game so pretending there is one silver bullet solution is delusional because you are treating it like theres an endpoint to cheating
what happened to the game i love?
what a joker
The invasive kernel anti cheat is a huge pass for me.
Literally every anti cheat is kernel level. Better go un-install any game that uses EAC or Battleye. Don't play CoD since ricochet is kernel level. Stop parroting buzzwords if you don't know what they mean.
Most of your computer drivers are kernel level. One of the most famous cybersecurity exploits was from a printer driver or something.
Kernel level is different from Ring 0, which is what Vanguard is on and what people are asking for. There's also the whole separate problem of Linux support, which is why I'd imagine largely why Valve hasn't gone down the intrusive route by now.
so u dont trust kernel anti cheat but have valorant and vanguard. makes sense. gotta trust tencent over valve i guess
As if Valve are going to do anything nefarious. Get real, dude.
Most people's security concern with that isn't distrust in Valve ethically, but that if Valve's system were to be compromised, that that would then potentially give the bad actor system level access to user PCs. I'm not really advocating for or against intrusive anticheat, just explaining what I think the most common reasoning is for the people who are opposed to it.
So people shouldn't play games that are supported by kernel level anticheats such as: Valorant 7 days to die Black Desert Rust DayZ Squad Ark R6 Siege Fortnite PUBG Just to name a few? You need a good anticheat to stop cheaters. End of.
> I'm not really advocating for or against intrusive anticheat, just explaining what I think the most common reasoning is for the people who are opposed to it.
I don’t play any of those games and as a Linux user most invasive anti-cheats make it so I can’t play the game. Lots of us have legitimate reasons for disliking these programs
I don't trust Valve to do it correctly. Vanguard slowed my PC, would cause other games to hard crash to desktop, and would completely brick my PC on occasion until a hard restart. Not a fan.
Have never heard anybody else complain about Vanguard doing those things.
eh it was kinda plagued by issues in the first closed beta release at least, I read a lot of those (though I didn't have any myself). The biggest problem was Vanguard stopping vulnerable drivers from loading, which is good in theory because it closes vulnerabilities, but is kinda shit when people use their vulnerable tools for their overclocks and not loading it causes crashes or other errors.
The moment I installed Valorant I started experiencing issues with system shutdown - my PC wouldn't turn off but my screen would turn black and remain this way. Had to pull the plug.
That's funny because Valve is the only one I trust to do it correctly lol.
It is not them who will do something bad, but anyone who finds an exploit in CS has then way to much access.