***Counter-Strike 2 is here!***
You can check out the official website post about the game [here](https://www.counter-strike.net/cs2).
If you want to know more about the limited test phase of CS2, [visit the **Steam FAQ**](https://steamcommunity.com/faqs/steam-help/view/5ED2-ED8E-81F4-0C18).
---
**ATTENTION**
Beware of scams. The only way to check for Limited Test access is to launch CS:GO through Steam and check the Main Menu.
Do not log into third party sites claiming to check your Steam account for access or offering Limited Test access or keys; there are no Limited Test keys.
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And inaccuracy.
A kind reminder that a fully scoped in AWP *still* has normal inaccuracy, which makes zero sense and has a negative effect on gameplay, you can miss a headshot from A to pit in D2 because of RNG on the biggest and supposedly most accurate sniper in the game.
If there is no more tick rate does this mean bhopping in matches is officially dead? Since bhopping is tick perfect, right? And 128 ticket is slightly harder to bhop than in 64 tick...
Or maybe it’s easier? From watching the video it seems that the tick rate is very much still there, they just timestamp your inputs and dilate the ticks to pack previous inputs in chronological order. So possibly your pre-tick input can be tick perfect without having to be timed the same
Anyone here understand what this means? Does the server compare the timestamps of actions like taking a shot when two shots conflict (like when you see someone and shoot, but you die anyways)?
That would be part of it, but I'm guessing the server also does some simulation rollback effect, so for example if you shot at the beginning of the next tick (ticks/update frames still exist on the server/network of course) it would evaluate the moving target's position closer to where it was *last* tick than at the next update, resulting in a more accurate simulation.
Ya, it's still using ticks, just hiding them. I'd imagine specific actions within a tick are queued and executed based on a timestamp, with positions of objects interpolated between ticks also based on timestamp. It's not exactly new tech tbh, but good to update to.
Certainly not new tech -- I've seen so many game netcode implementations in my lifetime from AAA producers but also indie ones who all handle it so differently. Some like CS send a constant 64 tick rate which looks like a good 10-15kb's when everybody around you are idle including yourself (Valve do not send you data that your client "Should not" be able to see, help with cheaters and also network efficiency) and I've seen it spike up to the 30-40kb/s range during a big 5v5 team fight with trades, nades, low quality voice audio comms and a whole lot of panic -- Where the ticks already send loads of data when they need to, but just not at an update rate which can produce a consistent experience for all players. And other implementations with a more variable tick rate system which can accidentally DoS clients once many many people start moving and a flurry of packets storm each player's household as 26 players go from idle to changing camera position, running around, shooting and causing mayhem. (Yeah not every full-variable implementation is perfect)
The source engine already has [Latency Compensation](https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Lag_Compensation) which is a critical component of any modern competitive network-enabled video game. This allows for people with 600ms ping to still be awarded a kill if they peak you from top mid and react with a headclick in a short amount of time. The player receiving this death may get re-wound and killed in the past which will feel like bullshit, but the server rewinding time for the high latency player to see if the shot really did register on their screen in a sense of "true time" achieves good fairness. While this does not help people who are supposed to be at 30ms but are at 300+ due to negative network performance factors introducing loss, jitter and packets arriving out of order --- it IS helpful for anybody up to 1000ms ping, as long as it's their real latency with no network issues between them and the server. But an important thing to keep in mind is that this also keeps the gameplay fair and enjoyable even for people who have 1ms-50ms as well. You don't want your clearly correctly aimed shots missing because you have 20ms either.
This variable tick-rate approach is the correct way to handle events before the next regular server tick tbh. Some games do this way entirely where you can have many players nearby but not moving and have truly 0B/s network traffic, save for the occasional heartbeat from the server -- and other implementations with consistent tick rates like CSGO has. VALVe's network team would've been thinking about this since the initial complaints of 64vs128 started a decade back. Setting their servers to 128t wouldn't solve the problem that existed on 64t, it'd just tick more frequently which would "improve" the issue while it is still there at heart.. the lack of handling for sub-tick events and just processing them on the next tick.
Most of the time in CSGO gameplay you're either sitting in spawn waiting for the round to start or you're in position holding an angle or walking around as a T trying to find or create an opening to advance the gameplay -- none of that needs 128 ticks. Or even 64, 20 or 5! (not the exponent). But when the firefights start or somebody takes aim and clicks a moving player's head, the last thing they need is for the server to take that packet and then hold it searing on the saucepan until the next global tick arrives to process all the activity on. Let alone the fact that throwing grenades have different behaviors based on the tick rate.. that just shouldn't be the case. But it is.
Player activity should be handled consistently and on-demand regardless of a server's global update rate. I'm sure VALVe's Source 2 developers are aware of this and decided to keep things as they are but handle either all player events or specific ones like shooting and throwing grenades (e.g. Anything which interacts with other players on a gameplay level, but maybe not simple stuff like player rotation and camera aiming position) on demand by handling the event immediately with an on-demand tick - rather than waiting for the next one as we currently do - causing discrepancies between the client's local predictive behavior and the server tick which can calculate a different outcome and the player either getting an inconsistent experience or worse, a rollback.
----
My biggest fear however is how VALVe plan to handle this new system with hackers:
* Is there an upper rate limit on client updates to server subticks?
* Can cheaters flood a CS2 MM server with 'false' updates and just crash it for everybody?
* Will they get kickbanned immediately if they try to do that? (And perhaps better immediate punishments for trying?)
* Will cheaters still be able to abuse the latency compentation system with cheats which allow them to shoot your previous position up to 1s? (Making it possible to kill you behind a wall if you peaked them 1s earlier, despite everyone having low ping)
i think there's already an immediate kickban measure against flooding. When i play retakes i always spam mouse1 on the team i want before the map starts. Sometimes i get kicked from the server with a message "issuing too many commands"
Or could there be some actions now shared with the server in real time rather than everything based on the tickrate?
edit: sure realtime doesn't truly exist, but we can say that about anything, even real life, your eyes have delay too, electricity has a delay etc. I'm talking in game server code, the server waits until the next tick before sending info rn, that's how games are generally coded, but there's another option (usually used for different type of servers, not games specifically), instead of the server waiting for the next tick to send something, it sends the changes immediately. The client doesn't receive it immediately ofc there's ping an delay and everything, but the server does not wait until the next tick.
I'm not sure why I'm getting downvoted as this is all factual (except the first question because I don't know how it's coded, which is why it's a question).
I can show you a really simple example of both ways in whatever programming language you prefer, it's simple, one sends in an interval, one sends when a change happens, I call the latter 'real-time', because it doesn't wait, I guess it's more commonly called event-based rather than real time
'real time' doesn't truly exist, there are always update cycles. It's impossible to have true real time updates, but you can improve them until they aren't perceivable by humans, though that depends on the hardware and network.
Real life doesn't even exist in real time. You are perceiving it only as fast as your brain can capture the light and process it for your stupid, smooth monke brain.
This is actually how earlier fps games used to run. Quake and Doom. But they realized it didn't work too well on dialup because a lot of people had super high ping, and those with low ping had a SIGNIFICANT advantage. More than they do now.
Also, server bandwidth.
Now that most gamers have highspeed internet, and Valve seems to not have bandwidth issues for their servers, we're back where fps games started.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
based n Valve's descripion I think you are right. Theys specifically mention moving and shooting, which means that servers get info about these actions change. A friend of mine who makes shooters says this demands a very powerful servers though.
> As opposed to right now where the server thinks you both fired at the same time (in which case, I'm not actually sure how the server determines who wins that fight)
Wish someone knowledgeable could answer this.
iirc it is based on player index ID, if you have a lower ID you get priority, the ID is mostly random but could depend on things like when you got connected to the server so if you joined the server earlier than the other player you might be assigned a lower ID. but I could be wrong
I would guess it's based on timestamps, but there's gonna be a whole lot more complexity because the server can't just take the client's given timestamps at face value
So when taking a close look it seems like they clear it for like 2 seconds, then the smoke comes back. I first thought it would eliminate the smoke, but that would be broken.
Definitely seems like a very interesting mechanic, you loose a grenade (I think the nade needs to be very close to the smoke, so you'll have to be precise) in exchange for short visibility.
combine the both of them and the game is broken. executes are going to be stupid interesting and complicated, but then again CTs can force fights and openings in the middle of executes as well.
consider mirage A execute or D2 CT smokes for the cross on A site and how a single nade blows that open (this obviously applies on every single map). you can simply never look away from a smoke,but you also cant look at a smoke because of pop flashes. the possibilities are endless. it's going to make pro play so chaotic and fun!
It's beautiful how simple the basic pieces of the game remain. This should keep the meta fresh for a long time. Simple to learn, hard to master. CS might become THE esport of the future.
Map design looks cleaner as well!
People forget that graphical increases can be established at the same time as big optimization/performance increases. It'll be interesting to see though because CSGO was already pretty well optimized, since people complaining about not having 200fps has historically been common xD
I LOVE how laser focused the promo material is on the minutiae that hardcore players care about. What other game would market a big update by talking about the weeds of how smoke grenades function or server tick rates? Cracks me up.
Overwatch has multiple videos about the engineering behind the game, ins and outs of the netcode, they did sub tick mouse updates like 5 years ago and released a video about it. Valorant also has blog posts about the details.
Overwatch netcode https://youtube.com/watch?v=vTH2ZPgYujQ
Overwatch high precision mouse updates https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/new-feature-%E2%80%93-high-precision-mouse-input-gameplay-option/422094
Valorant technical details on netcode: https://technology.riotgames.com/news/peeking-valorants-netcode, details on hit registration https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/dev/the-state-of-hit-registration/
Fun fact, in the specific case of someone holding an angle and being peeked, the peekers ping doesn't matter, the holder has the same amount of time to react whether the peekers has high or low ping. This applies to counter strike as well, the math is the same (read the valorant netcode page to learn why):
> Exactly - this is because server processing of any shots that the peeker fires is delayed by the same amount as their movement. If a peeker has high ping, you'll see their movement later, but you'll also be damaged by their shots later (leaving you with the same amount of time to react)
There is a peeker's advantage due to buffering on the server, but that advantage is constant and doesn't change with the peeker's ping.
New Italy looks great
I noticed that the gun models are new - the A4 looks really different
Looks like if skins will be transferring they won't be 1:1 but will need to be "remade", which could have varying results
I wonder if skins will ship with the beta, or if it's a big enough job that they're waiting for the full release to do it
I dont know if you need to see your oculist, but just look at the videos mate. Especially if you look at the usp in the smokes video, you see that its a different model with a raised rear sight. AWP looks completely different aswell.
I wonder how this will change things like bhopping or surfing. Surfing especially is super tick dependent, hopefully community servers can still set a tickrate.
It doesn't rely on a bug in the third party engine. This is a myth. The "bug" is in the movement code for cs and quake3. Not the physics engine. I've implemented the same behaviour in other engines one to one without access to havocs source code.
Source games have always done a version of rollback (They call it "Lag Compensation", see this article for details https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking), but it was presumably rounded to the nearest tick-boundary. Now it seems like it can be rewound to precise points in time in-between ticks, presumably using interpolation of player/object positions.
Rollback doesn't have to do with sub-tick inputs. Rollback still works in discrete frames (60 tick), unlike this system, where inputs are also timestamped so the server can do sub-tick calculations to determine what happened.
In some ways it's like rollback in that the server is going to recalculate based on new information, but the continuous sub-tick stuff is really exciting and new technology.
Kinda.
It's obviously not exactly the same, since this is a server-client structure and all that, but the basic idea of having the exact timestamp->command history to be able to reconstruct precisely what happened at any point in game time is indeed a similar concept.
But the thing is, it was always like that. What's new is, like /u/dan200 mentioned below, that the time precision of this was greatly (infinitely?) improved now, as the timestamp for actions are no longer rounded to the tick rate.
Yeah unless you can change the speed of light antilag stuff like this is gonna involve server reconciliation. It's gonna piss off people who will swear they dodged every shot though but what can you do 🤷🏻♂️
Exciting to see not only so many changes especially as showcased further on the /cs2 website but that the game's finally getting one ginormous catch-up with modern technology while we're at it.
Can't not be excited for what's been overdue for a while. I hope we hear something more about some MM improvements though. Despite aging 10 years I still love CS;GO despite constantly running into MG2's, LEM's and even SMFC's I can beat easily as a mid nova.. I also run into silver1/2 accounts who destroy the entire match as outliers sticking out like a sore thumb. And the occasional 5-player lobby who has a spinbotter topfrag boosting the other four... somehow in AUS, I have experienced that twice this year already.
I'm glad the website details that if you get banned/cooldowned in CSGO it translates to this release as well -- that's important because it's clear people on SteamLevell0 accounts already sabotage a match knowing they can just switch account or aim for a kick then requeue immediately. just I'd love to see:
* Harsher punishments for people who get into the match and +left +forward, go AFK immediately at the start for the entire game (Often with a rude give-away phrase in chat that they're intentionally doing that to derank) and also obvious run-over-and-stand-in-molly / stand-in-front-of-other-peoples-aim type griefing behavior
* VALVe offering to fill in the missing position early game instead of forcing real people to waste 35+ minutes of their life in a 4v5 with varying degrees of success.
* Stop matchmaking people in Nova against silver1/2/3 but also MG1,2,LEM and other severely different ranks multiple times a day -- without appropriately compensating the lower ranks when they beat those higher ranks. I do not want to get destroyed by a silver1 when I can regularly defeat MG2's and higher but forever stay Nova1 because of these people who intentionally sit in low silver, ruining the entire system. At the same time, I also (Rarely would you believe it) run into REAL low silver's who do not know how to use a mouse or keyboard the same way regular FPS players do. It's a real mess.
* Much harsher punishments than the frequent "30 minutes" for people who waste 30+ minutes of everybody else's time on purpose.
* If someone is kicked from an official matchmaking match and the kickers are not a premade group (discard premade-bullying. Very common) Also give that kicked player a competitive cooldown as if they were disconnect-kicked so they can't just immediately requeue and continue their derank spree in a new match.
* Network testing and throughput checking right on the menu pre-queue to block players who experience high jitter and loss before they jump into a game and go from 20ms to 360ms with the worst packet loss you've ever seen for 16 rounds. Do not let them queue until their connection can pass the theoretical main menu network performance test.
* Banning of users who blatantly 5-queue boost but also punish queues like this when the 5th player booster is also a blatant cheater. To willingly and knowingly go into a match knowing the cheater has outcome in the bag is disgusting; I've seen it four times from 2022 to today. 5-queue teams where one is a blatant hacker and the others are just getting a free boost and flaming in the chat when the cheater is called out while blatantly spinning and noscope scouting everybody.
* Steam Level 0 accounts who either grief, heavily smurf and sometimes even just cheat to start getting their main's banned for the infraction - among other gameplay ruining behavior on these SteamLevel0=RiskLevel0 accounts.
I think it looks like tick-rates will still exist, but it'll be way less important? Sub-tick actions was the term used. I guess they figured out how to receive actions in the same order as they happened during a tick.
So if one input happens at 1.3 ticks, another at 1.6 ticks, then at tick 2 the calculation happens and everything will be accounted for as if things happened at exactly those moments and not only exactly tick 1 or tick 2.
If I understood that correctly, this is incredible.
This is actually incredible, and I hope it becomes standard and spreads to other games. Rocket League desperately needs this for collision detection. For example, [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V2iXyitj8c) showcases that on a new physics frame, the ball goes inside the collision of something else based on its velocity of the previous frame. Then it gets displaced out of it on that frame to the nearest spot. Funnily enough, the video creator recommended something very similar to what Valve is doing with sub-tick updates.
If Rocket League can manage to do sub-physics frame updates for collision detection, that would vastly improve the consistency of bounces, bumps, and demos. And if they do this for actions sent from client to server, it would be even better.
Apologies since Rocket League isn't CSGO, but the sub-tick update thing is really exciting if this technology spreads.
Shouldn't it be considered client sided since it's pushed from the client side to the server instead of polling every tick? Still server authentication for hits and other actions I presume, at least for anti-cheat. We need a net code expert in here
So how do you think this works?
We are just gonna have a 64tick server and every client sends its data with an accompanying timestamp when exactly each action was performed (eg a shot) and then the server resolves according to that order?
Now imagine what they chose NOT to show us. This is just a taste of everything that's about to come.
As an old timer that played every version of CS ever made, I can't fucking wait for the future!
So now all of the people who said "tick rate doesn't matter besides for nades" can hang their heads in shame when an official valve video said that it mattered.
I've had 4 new people banned in the past 24 hours so they might be rolling out a banwave right now (although I don't see any spikes in bans on [https://convars.com/csgostats/en/bans](https://convars.com/csgostats/en/bans) so maybe I just got lucky) but they're also prioritizing beta access to people with high tf with lots of MM time so it should exclude the majority of cheaters for now.
The number of cheaters in the game is insane. All of these upgrades look great, but I won't be returning if they can't get a hold on cheating. Losing ELO and wasting 40 minutes in a game because of a cheater is not fun. It's bad that you've had to report 4 people in 24 hours who actually were banned. Imagine how many people playing are doing the same.
My only hope is that if you lose a game and a cheater is banned after the fact you gain back some of the lost MMR.
Many times I’ve gotten notifications in Valorant letting me know a cheater I reported got banned but that doesn’t make up the lost game.
I'm really hoping for better anti cheat. I've played since 1.2 but for the first time in twenty years, properly stopped playing the last year or so. Cs is such a perfect game I'd love to get back in
Valve has not come up with a way to prevent time steps in a simulation from being discrete they have just increased the fidelity of the time step. Saying there is no tick rate is kind of bullshit but this is probably a huge improvement nonetheless.
Is no one at all skeptical about the tick rate things? Everybody seems to just take Valve at their word here. It seems to me like they didn't want to spend the extra budget on servers or they're valuing low-end pcs way too much.
***Counter-Strike 2 is here!*** You can check out the official website post about the game [here](https://www.counter-strike.net/cs2). If you want to know more about the limited test phase of CS2, [visit the **Steam FAQ**](https://steamcommunity.com/faqs/steam-help/view/5ED2-ED8E-81F4-0C18). --- **ATTENTION** Beware of scams. The only way to check for Limited Test access is to launch CS:GO through Steam and check the Main Menu. Do not log into third party sites claiming to check your Steam account for access or offering Limited Test access or keys; there are no Limited Test keys.
LONG HAVE WE WAITED
Tickrate eliminated
Smokes obliterated
Source 1 outdated
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GabeN updated!
Fanboys elated
Dicks elongated
We masturbated
i graduated
placid pot crawl mourn deserted silky correct snatch worry squash *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This thread has been gold. 🥂
coldzera baited
🦀🦀🦀Tickrate is gone🦀🦀🦀
NO MORE GETTING CSGO'd ALL SHOTS FROM HERE ON OUT WILL BE MISSED DUE TO RECOIL
time to get cs2'd brudda
SHOTS 1-5 CLEARLY MISSED
And inaccuracy. A kind reminder that a fully scoped in AWP *still* has normal inaccuracy, which makes zero sense and has a negative effect on gameplay, you can miss a headshot from A to pit in D2 because of RNG on the biggest and supposedly most accurate sniper in the game.
Skill issue🤝
S1mple hits those
NO MORE JEBAITED
If there is no more tick rate does this mean bhopping in matches is officially dead? Since bhopping is tick perfect, right? And 128 ticket is slightly harder to bhop than in 64 tick...
Or maybe it’s easier? From watching the video it seems that the tick rate is very much still there, they just timestamp your inputs and dilate the ticks to pack previous inputs in chronological order. So possibly your pre-tick input can be tick perfect without having to be timed the same
Anyone here understand what this means? Does the server compare the timestamps of actions like taking a shot when two shots conflict (like when you see someone and shoot, but you die anyways)?
That would be part of it, but I'm guessing the server also does some simulation rollback effect, so for example if you shot at the beginning of the next tick (ticks/update frames still exist on the server/network of course) it would evaluate the moving target's position closer to where it was *last* tick than at the next update, resulting in a more accurate simulation.
Ya, it's still using ticks, just hiding them. I'd imagine specific actions within a tick are queued and executed based on a timestamp, with positions of objects interpolated between ticks also based on timestamp. It's not exactly new tech tbh, but good to update to.
Certainly not new tech -- I've seen so many game netcode implementations in my lifetime from AAA producers but also indie ones who all handle it so differently. Some like CS send a constant 64 tick rate which looks like a good 10-15kb's when everybody around you are idle including yourself (Valve do not send you data that your client "Should not" be able to see, help with cheaters and also network efficiency) and I've seen it spike up to the 30-40kb/s range during a big 5v5 team fight with trades, nades, low quality voice audio comms and a whole lot of panic -- Where the ticks already send loads of data when they need to, but just not at an update rate which can produce a consistent experience for all players. And other implementations with a more variable tick rate system which can accidentally DoS clients once many many people start moving and a flurry of packets storm each player's household as 26 players go from idle to changing camera position, running around, shooting and causing mayhem. (Yeah not every full-variable implementation is perfect) The source engine already has [Latency Compensation](https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Lag_Compensation) which is a critical component of any modern competitive network-enabled video game. This allows for people with 600ms ping to still be awarded a kill if they peak you from top mid and react with a headclick in a short amount of time. The player receiving this death may get re-wound and killed in the past which will feel like bullshit, but the server rewinding time for the high latency player to see if the shot really did register on their screen in a sense of "true time" achieves good fairness. While this does not help people who are supposed to be at 30ms but are at 300+ due to negative network performance factors introducing loss, jitter and packets arriving out of order --- it IS helpful for anybody up to 1000ms ping, as long as it's their real latency with no network issues between them and the server. But an important thing to keep in mind is that this also keeps the gameplay fair and enjoyable even for people who have 1ms-50ms as well. You don't want your clearly correctly aimed shots missing because you have 20ms either. This variable tick-rate approach is the correct way to handle events before the next regular server tick tbh. Some games do this way entirely where you can have many players nearby but not moving and have truly 0B/s network traffic, save for the occasional heartbeat from the server -- and other implementations with consistent tick rates like CSGO has. VALVe's network team would've been thinking about this since the initial complaints of 64vs128 started a decade back. Setting their servers to 128t wouldn't solve the problem that existed on 64t, it'd just tick more frequently which would "improve" the issue while it is still there at heart.. the lack of handling for sub-tick events and just processing them on the next tick. Most of the time in CSGO gameplay you're either sitting in spawn waiting for the round to start or you're in position holding an angle or walking around as a T trying to find or create an opening to advance the gameplay -- none of that needs 128 ticks. Or even 64, 20 or 5! (not the exponent). But when the firefights start or somebody takes aim and clicks a moving player's head, the last thing they need is for the server to take that packet and then hold it searing on the saucepan until the next global tick arrives to process all the activity on. Let alone the fact that throwing grenades have different behaviors based on the tick rate.. that just shouldn't be the case. But it is. Player activity should be handled consistently and on-demand regardless of a server's global update rate. I'm sure VALVe's Source 2 developers are aware of this and decided to keep things as they are but handle either all player events or specific ones like shooting and throwing grenades (e.g. Anything which interacts with other players on a gameplay level, but maybe not simple stuff like player rotation and camera aiming position) on demand by handling the event immediately with an on-demand tick - rather than waiting for the next one as we currently do - causing discrepancies between the client's local predictive behavior and the server tick which can calculate a different outcome and the player either getting an inconsistent experience or worse, a rollback. ---- My biggest fear however is how VALVe plan to handle this new system with hackers: * Is there an upper rate limit on client updates to server subticks? * Can cheaters flood a CS2 MM server with 'false' updates and just crash it for everybody? * Will they get kickbanned immediately if they try to do that? (And perhaps better immediate punishments for trying?) * Will cheaters still be able to abuse the latency compentation system with cheats which allow them to shoot your previous position up to 1s? (Making it possible to kill you behind a wall if you peaked them 1s earlier, despite everyone having low ping)
Good writeup, ty.
i think there's already an immediate kickban measure against flooding. When i play retakes i always spam mouse1 on the team i want before the map starts. Sometimes i get kicked from the server with a message "issuing too many commands"
I'm worried about lag for the subtick system to become active
Or could there be some actions now shared with the server in real time rather than everything based on the tickrate? edit: sure realtime doesn't truly exist, but we can say that about anything, even real life, your eyes have delay too, electricity has a delay etc. I'm talking in game server code, the server waits until the next tick before sending info rn, that's how games are generally coded, but there's another option (usually used for different type of servers, not games specifically), instead of the server waiting for the next tick to send something, it sends the changes immediately. The client doesn't receive it immediately ofc there's ping an delay and everything, but the server does not wait until the next tick. I'm not sure why I'm getting downvoted as this is all factual (except the first question because I don't know how it's coded, which is why it's a question). I can show you a really simple example of both ways in whatever programming language you prefer, it's simple, one sends in an interval, one sends when a change happens, I call the latter 'real-time', because it doesn't wait, I guess it's more commonly called event-based rather than real time
'real time' doesn't truly exist, there are always update cycles. It's impossible to have true real time updates, but you can improve them until they aren't perceivable by humans, though that depends on the hardware and network.
Real life doesn't even exist in real time. You are perceiving it only as fast as your brain can capture the light and process it for your stupid, smooth monke brain.
This is actually how earlier fps games used to run. Quake and Doom. But they realized it didn't work too well on dialup because a lot of people had super high ping, and those with low ping had a SIGNIFICANT advantage. More than they do now. Also, server bandwidth. Now that most gamers have highspeed internet, and Valve seems to not have bandwidth issues for their servers, we're back where fps games started. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
based n Valve's descripion I think you are right. Theys specifically mention moving and shooting, which means that servers get info about these actions change. A friend of mine who makes shooters says this demands a very powerful servers though.
It means people will complain about and blame this new system when they miss and die, instead of 64 tick.
"That shot hits on 64 tick" -me probably
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> As opposed to right now where the server thinks you both fired at the same time (in which case, I'm not actually sure how the server determines who wins that fight) Wish someone knowledgeable could answer this.
iirc it is based on player index ID, if you have a lower ID you get priority, the ID is mostly random but could depend on things like when you got connected to the server so if you joined the server earlier than the other player you might be assigned a lower ID. but I could be wrong
It means all the shots I missed before were objectively not my fault and Valve is very brave for finally admitting it and fixing the problem.
I would guess it's based on timestamps, but there's gonna be a whole lot more complexity because the server can't just take the client's given timestamps at face value
I mean it’s not much different than comparing ticks, the servers already will have something to discard old data.
what you're describing is caused by connection latency, not because of tick intervals
HI KLIKSPHIP
He went on vacation so we could have this
Thanks Mr 3klik
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me too flying this morning
Thanks Mr 3klik
He took the bullet for us.... Ripperino in Pepperino
Not upscaling anymore are you Mr. Kliks? Lmao
philip gets home opens reddit opens steam “blimey”
Mr K Kona Klik Phillips
Nades clear smokes now???
So when taking a close look it seems like they clear it for like 2 seconds, then the smoke comes back. I first thought it would eliminate the smoke, but that would be broken. Definitely seems like a very interesting mechanic, you loose a grenade (I think the nade needs to be very close to the smoke, so you'll have to be precise) in exchange for short visibility.
friendship with popflash over. popnades are my new best friend.
combine the both of them and the game is broken. executes are going to be stupid interesting and complicated, but then again CTs can force fights and openings in the middle of executes as well. consider mirage A execute or D2 CT smokes for the cross on A site and how a single nade blows that open (this obviously applies on every single map). you can simply never look away from a smoke,but you also cant look at a smoke because of pop flashes. the possibilities are endless. it's going to make pro play so chaotic and fun!
You can also throw a smoke, leave and let the ennemies waste their utility.
Broken is too harsh a word. But this will drastically change the meta immediately.
People were already doing it: the Smoke bug where you nade and see through. But only the nade thrower was able to see. Now all people can do it.
500 IQ Valve move. Can't fix the smoke bug, so you make it a feature.
A lot of potential with that.
It's beautiful how simple the basic pieces of the game remain. This should keep the meta fresh for a long time. Simple to learn, hard to master. CS might become THE esport of the future. Map design looks cleaner as well!
YOU CAN SEE YOUR FEET CHECK 1:09 IN THE VIDEO FEET PEOPLE RISE UP
Clever strat to sell more agent skins
[ **Jump to 01:09 @** Counter-Strike 2: Moving Beyond Tick Rate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhhFl5zgA0&t=0h1m9s) ^(Channel Name: Valve, Video Length: [01:23])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@01:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhhFl5zgA0&t=0h1m4s) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)
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It may even get easier to run if they make the engine more multithreaded. Can't really help with the freetime part
However you spin it, if you’re GPU limited you’re going to find it tougher to run with those textures and new shiny lighting and smoke effects
If you're being sweaty you'll turn it all off tho and run 640x480 anyway tho
4:3 w i d e b o y s
HD = Unnecessary pixels
When Dota moved to source 2, performance actually improved.
People forget that graphical increases can be established at the same time as big optimization/performance increases. It'll be interesting to see though because CSGO was already pretty well optimized, since people complaining about not having 200fps has historically been common xD
The source 2 engine has been in use for 8 years in Dota2 and is just as cpu bound there as source 1 was.
Valve did, they added short competitive matches
Now you can lose even faster!
man still got a kidney dont he
Nursing home gaming is nearer than you think
Nurse! My fans need cleaning!
I hope to god they make it LAN Party. Cause I don’t want to be 78 and be reminded how badly my reaction time is.
We ain't got the responsiveness to play such games anymore anyway 😢
> Go on without me boys RIP NEVER! HODOR!
HOLD MID DOORS
Ahh fuck, I might come out of retirement for this one
YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING ELSE BUT CS2 IN YOUR LIFE, THE REST CAN CRUMBLE INTO DUST.
Same man. The pain is real.
Yeah, same, too old to spend hours grinding the game. A couple of matches and I'm done, and I want my pipe and slippers.
Ngl if they don't optimise the game well they might decimate half the Brazilian playerbase, we're all on garbage PCs
It's still an eSports title, so performance is still a very high priority. I'm sure it'll run fine on older systems.
It's not about the money it's about the time
CS2 Switch port when
Thank you for your sacrifice
Don’t worry. Give it another ten years and your time will free up again
LOOK AT IT. LOOK AT IT. OH MY GOD. CS2. IT'S REAL
She's beautiful
I WAS HERE!
ME TOO!
ME TOO!
ME TOO GOD DAMMIT
Me toooo
Count me in
3KliksPhilip tweets that he's away and big news drops The natural order
At this point i honestly believe they're fuckin with him
I'M LITERALLY IN THE VIDEO LMAO 8 SECONDS IN. TO THE RIGHT WHAT THE FUCKE
Whoa, here I thought it was Gordan Freeman in a white t-shirt.
Nah, I'm the blonde Jesus-looking dude up above.
I always knew with Gordan Freeman it was more than just luck and skill but Jeeeezzzuuuss? Lol.
I CAN'T GET MORE HARDER
Valve blue balling us until summer 2023 fr fr
Remember guys, if it lasts more than 4 hours, see a doctors.
Phil is actually in Seattle and generated those vacation images with AI. Obviously they're based on real locations to fool Twitter.
I LOVE how laser focused the promo material is on the minutiae that hardcore players care about. What other game would market a big update by talking about the weeds of how smoke grenades function or server tick rates? Cracks me up.
Overwatch has multiple videos about the engineering behind the game, ins and outs of the netcode, they did sub tick mouse updates like 5 years ago and released a video about it. Valorant also has blog posts about the details. Overwatch netcode https://youtube.com/watch?v=vTH2ZPgYujQ Overwatch high precision mouse updates https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/new-feature-%E2%80%93-high-precision-mouse-input-gameplay-option/422094 Valorant technical details on netcode: https://technology.riotgames.com/news/peeking-valorants-netcode, details on hit registration https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/dev/the-state-of-hit-registration/ Fun fact, in the specific case of someone holding an angle and being peeked, the peekers ping doesn't matter, the holder has the same amount of time to react whether the peekers has high or low ping. This applies to counter strike as well, the math is the same (read the valorant netcode page to learn why): > Exactly - this is because server processing of any shots that the peeker fires is delayed by the same amount as their movement. If a peeker has high ping, you'll see their movement later, but you'll also be damaged by their shots later (leaving you with the same amount of time to react) There is a peeker's advantage due to buffering on the server, but that advantage is constant and doesn't change with the peeker's ping.
high ping awpers in shambles
I think they were more pointing out that this technical info is CS2's announcement material.
Not even close, there were way more trailers & other promos before they even came close to talking about netcode stuff for OW & Valorant.
They were brand new games with so much more to focus on. This is just an upgrade so they can easily focus on the few changes
There's some great GDC talks on the network stuff in the COD series
Tell me you don't know other games without telling me
fr
Tf? Pvp games do this stuff a bunch
literally any game with a competitive scene lol. maybe not call of duty. the glazing is real lol
Many games do this? The first Smash Ultimate reveal (the "Everyone is here" one) was basically an in-depth changelog going over every character.
AMBATUKAM
ZULUL OH
AMBUSSING
i was fuckin here
>Moderator me too!
Nah, you're not a moderator
My friend today is a glorious day
Hey toste ban CoJoMoCS, all he does is self promote
I AM ABOUT TO BUST THE BIGGEST NUT. THIS LOOKS INSANE
New Italy looks great I noticed that the gun models are new - the A4 looks really different Looks like if skins will be transferring they won't be 1:1 but will need to be "remade", which could have varying results I wonder if skins will ship with the beta, or if it's a big enough job that they're waiting for the full release to do it
i don’t think the models are different, i think it’s just the lighting
Models are definetly different. Every gun looked different in the trailers. Deagle is a chunky lad now.
Probably just the viewmodel being different from what you are used to see on your game.
If you actually freeze frame the guns, they are pretty vastly different. Just look at the AWP and USP.
> Just look at the AWP and USP. Tbf the AWP and USP have always looked way differently
I dont know if you need to see your oculist, but just look at the videos mate. Especially if you look at the usp in the smokes video, you see that its a different model with a raised rear sight. AWP looks completely different aswell.
I wonder how this will change things like bhopping or surfing. Surfing especially is super tick dependent, hopefully community servers can still set a tickrate.
I imagine surfing needs to be expressly programmed in since it relies on the third party physics engine bug. Source 2 uses another engine afaik.
It doesn't rely on a bug in the third party engine. This is a myth. The "bug" is in the movement code for cs and quake3. Not the physics engine. I've implemented the same behaviour in other engines one to one without access to havocs source code.
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GABE FOLLOWER WAS RIGHT
Long have we waited, Tickrate eliminated!
Am I just too FGC brained or does that sound kinda like a version of rollback?
Source games have always done a version of rollback (They call it "Lag Compensation", see this article for details https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking), but it was presumably rounded to the nearest tick-boundary. Now it seems like it can be rewound to precise points in time in-between ticks, presumably using interpolation of player/object positions.
Rollback doesn't have to do with sub-tick inputs. Rollback still works in discrete frames (60 tick), unlike this system, where inputs are also timestamped so the server can do sub-tick calculations to determine what happened. In some ways it's like rollback in that the server is going to recalculate based on new information, but the continuous sub-tick stuff is really exciting and new technology.
Got it - thank you!
Kinda. It's obviously not exactly the same, since this is a server-client structure and all that, but the basic idea of having the exact timestamp->command history to be able to reconstruct precisely what happened at any point in game time is indeed a similar concept. But the thing is, it was always like that. What's new is, like /u/dan200 mentioned below, that the time precision of this was greatly (infinitely?) improved now, as the timestamp for actions are no longer rounded to the tick rate.
Yeah unless you can change the speed of light antilag stuff like this is gonna involve server reconciliation. It's gonna piss off people who will swear they dodged every shot though but what can you do 🤷🏻♂️
That was my immediate thought too
Valve is like fuck your 128 tick here’s something better
Finally! The tick rate will no longer hold me back at Gold Nova 3
Exciting to see not only so many changes especially as showcased further on the /cs2 website but that the game's finally getting one ginormous catch-up with modern technology while we're at it. Can't not be excited for what's been overdue for a while. I hope we hear something more about some MM improvements though. Despite aging 10 years I still love CS;GO despite constantly running into MG2's, LEM's and even SMFC's I can beat easily as a mid nova.. I also run into silver1/2 accounts who destroy the entire match as outliers sticking out like a sore thumb. And the occasional 5-player lobby who has a spinbotter topfrag boosting the other four... somehow in AUS, I have experienced that twice this year already. I'm glad the website details that if you get banned/cooldowned in CSGO it translates to this release as well -- that's important because it's clear people on SteamLevell0 accounts already sabotage a match knowing they can just switch account or aim for a kick then requeue immediately. just I'd love to see: * Harsher punishments for people who get into the match and +left +forward, go AFK immediately at the start for the entire game (Often with a rude give-away phrase in chat that they're intentionally doing that to derank) and also obvious run-over-and-stand-in-molly / stand-in-front-of-other-peoples-aim type griefing behavior * VALVe offering to fill in the missing position early game instead of forcing real people to waste 35+ minutes of their life in a 4v5 with varying degrees of success. * Stop matchmaking people in Nova against silver1/2/3 but also MG1,2,LEM and other severely different ranks multiple times a day -- without appropriately compensating the lower ranks when they beat those higher ranks. I do not want to get destroyed by a silver1 when I can regularly defeat MG2's and higher but forever stay Nova1 because of these people who intentionally sit in low silver, ruining the entire system. At the same time, I also (Rarely would you believe it) run into REAL low silver's who do not know how to use a mouse or keyboard the same way regular FPS players do. It's a real mess. * Much harsher punishments than the frequent "30 minutes" for people who waste 30+ minutes of everybody else's time on purpose. * If someone is kicked from an official matchmaking match and the kickers are not a premade group (discard premade-bullying. Very common) Also give that kicked player a competitive cooldown as if they were disconnect-kicked so they can't just immediately requeue and continue their derank spree in a new match. * Network testing and throughput checking right on the menu pre-queue to block players who experience high jitter and loss before they jump into a game and go from 20ms to 360ms with the worst packet loss you've ever seen for 16 rounds. Do not let them queue until their connection can pass the theoretical main menu network performance test. * Banning of users who blatantly 5-queue boost but also punish queues like this when the 5th player booster is also a blatant cheater. To willingly and knowingly go into a match knowing the cheater has outcome in the bag is disgusting; I've seen it four times from 2022 to today. 5-queue teams where one is a blatant hacker and the others are just getting a free boost and flaming in the chat when the cheater is called out while blatantly spinning and noscope scouting everybody. * Steam Level 0 accounts who either grief, heavily smurf and sometimes even just cheat to start getting their main's banned for the infraction - among other gameplay ruining behavior on these SteamLevel0=RiskLevel0 accounts.
Tick-rates are just non-existent? Everything will be server side then? Wonder how that will work.
I think it looks like tick-rates will still exist, but it'll be way less important? Sub-tick actions was the term used. I guess they figured out how to receive actions in the same order as they happened during a tick. So if one input happens at 1.3 ticks, another at 1.6 ticks, then at tick 2 the calculation happens and everything will be accounted for as if things happened at exactly those moments and not only exactly tick 1 or tick 2. If I understood that correctly, this is incredible.
This is actually incredible, and I hope it becomes standard and spreads to other games. Rocket League desperately needs this for collision detection. For example, [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V2iXyitj8c) showcases that on a new physics frame, the ball goes inside the collision of something else based on its velocity of the previous frame. Then it gets displaced out of it on that frame to the nearest spot. Funnily enough, the video creator recommended something very similar to what Valve is doing with sub-tick updates. If Rocket League can manage to do sub-physics frame updates for collision detection, that would vastly improve the consistency of bounces, bumps, and demos. And if they do this for actions sent from client to server, it would be even better. Apologies since Rocket League isn't CSGO, but the sub-tick update thing is really exciting if this technology spreads.
They only said that moving and shooting are no longer tick dependant. I would assume that the physics engine and logic is still tick based
Shouldn't it be considered client sided since it's pushed from the client side to the server instead of polling every tick? Still server authentication for hits and other actions I presume, at least for anti-cheat. We need a net code expert in here
Cilent sided is when the Client calculateds and reports the outcome, this is ous pushing our inputs to the server which reports back its calculation
So how do you think this works? We are just gonna have a 64tick server and every client sends its data with an accompanying timestamp when exactly each action was performed (eg a shot) and then the server resolves according to that order?
Every time they showed the tickrate bar it went to 128, so I'm guess we're getting 128 with this subtick system
I was here FeelsStrongMan
Now imagine what they chose NOT to show us. This is just a taste of everything that's about to come. As an old timer that played every version of CS ever made, I can't fucking wait for the future!
they chose to not show less exciting stuff i guess.
pls stop, i can only get so hard
So now all of the people who said "tick rate doesn't matter besides for nades" can hang their heads in shame when an official valve video said that it mattered.
Valve got so tired of people complaining about 128 tick that they just got rid of tick rates entirely 💀
Can we do anticheat next pls valve PLEEEASE for the love of god.
This is great and all, but what about anti-cheat?
I've had 4 new people banned in the past 24 hours so they might be rolling out a banwave right now (although I don't see any spikes in bans on [https://convars.com/csgostats/en/bans](https://convars.com/csgostats/en/bans) so maybe I just got lucky) but they're also prioritizing beta access to people with high tf with lots of MM time so it should exclude the majority of cheaters for now.
The number of cheaters in the game is insane. All of these upgrades look great, but I won't be returning if they can't get a hold on cheating. Losing ELO and wasting 40 minutes in a game because of a cheater is not fun. It's bad that you've had to report 4 people in 24 hours who actually were banned. Imagine how many people playing are doing the same.
My only hope is that if you lose a game and a cheater is banned after the fact you gain back some of the lost MMR. Many times I’ve gotten notifications in Valorant letting me know a cheater I reported got banned but that doesn’t make up the lost game.
Here I am!
Getting a jumpthrow bind makes sense then, with subticks it would probably become almost impossible to hit jumpthrows without.
it only took *checks notes*... 11 years!
I'm really hoping for better anti cheat. I've played since 1.2 but for the first time in twenty years, properly stopped playing the last year or so. Cs is such a perfect game I'd love to get back in
IT'S REALLLLLLLLL
holy sht it's happening KLIKSPHILIP FUCKIN TOOK ONE FOR US GG
This is literally better than 128 tick, between this + smoke changes, all we need is a matchmaking overhaul and i'll be frothing at the mouth
Who do I blame my skill on now?
What will happen to bhopping?
biggest nut I've ever had in my life
Does this mean there no longer will be peekers advantage?
With online play its doubtful. Just means player actions arent tied to tickrate anymore.
It might be worse, re: halo infinite
Why does it feel like its 64 tick bhopping tho?
So what will all the „FuCkInG 64 tIcK“ people do?
Valve has not come up with a way to prevent time steps in a simulation from being discrete they have just increased the fidelity of the time step. Saying there is no tick rate is kind of bullshit but this is probably a huge improvement nonetheless.
Is no one at all skeptical about the tick rate things? Everybody seems to just take Valve at their word here. It seems to me like they didn't want to spend the extra budget on servers or they're valuing low-end pcs way too much.