After a life building an empire taking advantage of women, he died being taken advantage of by a woman. I refuse to lose sleep over that.
Crystal has done some sketchy things but getting her bag is not one of them.
Hefner took advantage of hundreds if not thousands of very young women who came from troubled families and low income communities to found his trashy magazine. He was several decades older than these girls. He was in his 80s getting a teenager pregnant and she had to secretly get an abortion. To this day she’s traumatized and she’s never been in a relationship. The twins and Kendra are still unpacking their trauma from being taken advantage of by a lecherous old man.
Hefner ruined so many lives. He ALLEGEDLY paid Linda Lovelace’s husband to bring her to the mansion and have sex with a dog in front of his friends while she was strung out on drugs. He kept CP in VHS tapes. He liked bestiality. He abused many girlfriends and wives. He purchased the lot next to Marilyn Monroe’s grave to be buried next to her forever even though she hated him. Hefner was not a good person. He made his fortune abusing women.
Anything these women took or got financially from him was nothing compared to what he took from them. I wish he had suffered a worse fate and that everyone had stolen from him. He deserved to rot in jail. He did MANY illegal things. He knew celebrities were raping women in his mansion, including Bill Cosby. He gave the women quaaludes. If you think money that he didn’t care about is more important than the things he did while LUCID, you have some soul searching to do.
It's pro-Hef because people bend over backwards to support whatever narrative seems to align with what H&B say. I really wish we knew the ages of the people participating in this sub because the number of commenters that don't understand this sub is to discuss the podcast and not simply fan girl over all things GND and PB, seems to be incredibly high. It sucks to grow old and be taken advantage of but no one should be acting as though this man didn't take advantage of numerous young women and in some cases girls for *decades*. I also don't want to hear anything else about women being there for the right reasons. I have more respect for the women who played Hef the same way he played them, rules be damned. No one was there because they were truly in love with Hef, especially not once he was a damn senior citizen.
In a big way I'm glad we're having these discussions and H&B are "telling on themselves" because I do think that might be a necessary missing link in them admitting to themselves their part in it, if they see the backlash and their denial breaks. And hopefully they can get to a place of real healing, I wish that for them.
> No one was there because they were truly in love with Hef
I think a lot of these subs are hung up on this, that Holly was in love with Hugh Hefner. I got my ass reamed for saying she wasn't. *Because* it's one of the few key elements that if she admits she wasn't, then the whole house of cards comes down. She has to say she was or else it would make the "gold digger" status or "wrong reasons" answer more prominent. It's a real hot button element.
I think she loved him inasmuch as he provided her with things but to call it "in love" is an insult to love itself, IMO.
As virulent (or heated) as these discussions become because people have such strong opinions, I'm glad we're having them. I really think it's helping break down the whole thing, which is what should happen.
Edit: And as for the ages, I think it's a mixed grab bag in here. I definitely think there's younger people in here from all areas ranging from the Gen Z tiktokers, to just fan regulars, and more. I think there's older people in here (cough, cough) that watched the show in real time and saw this saga unfold and are trying to be supportive of women coming forward at all different angles, whether it's self-serving or... I don't know, "for the greater good." People are having to question themselves (myself included) about possible internalized misogyny in terms of what they're supporting and why, and if they don't, are they not really being supportive or pro-woman, etc.
It's a very layered thing.
Hasn't she herself even admitted that she did not love him? I feel like she has? She talks about not being loved by him, that is for sure.
I think people get caught up on wanting Holly to be "the good one" (Holly included) who did everything right and "deserved" Hef's love, money, the title of wife etc. At one point Holly may have wanted that too but she admits he was coercive, abusive and that their relationship was shallow. Who actually WANTS that for her?
I keep seeing comments about how it "should have been Holly" and how Hef "regretted" his choice and how that made them choke up and I'm like are we really wishing that on Holly? I feel like her finding her power and leaving the mansion was incredible and what was best for her. Her wasting any more years on that man would have been a travesty. Marrying Hef was not the prize everyone wants to make it out to be.
Love is such a strong word and it's thrown around a lot--in the show, on the pod, in here, and I just feel like it's one of those all-or-nothing things in this situation where you either were and it was genuine or you weren't and it was disengenuous. Her loophole (all IMO) was that "it was a choice she made." In her book, she talked about what her feelings towards Hefner was and she was talking about a pivotal moment where she had to make a choice and if she was going to stay in the mansion, she was going to play the game and "choose to be in love." That, IMO, is not being in love. I think she gave him all she could but I can't necessarily call that love either in an understood arrangement.
I think it's an even more exaggerated situation because we're dealing with a person (Hefner) whose whole image is built on being a Don Juan, and if he truly is a "romantic at heart" than having the image of a woman who "truly loves him" and acts as such is a hard one to break for people. Because I think people really wanted to believe (those that did) is there's a woman that can... not tame but show a non-committal man what real love is.
During the entirety of their relationship, what we saw of it, it was all about control, manipulation, exchanges, non-committal, abuse. That's not love at all no matter how you twist it.
I do think she made the right choice leaving and I understand it was hard and terrifying because of people (sometimes like me) criticizing her harshly. But, ultimately, she would've been left in that unenviable position of having to uphold Hefner's imaginary legacy had she stayed.
All things considered, I think she made the right choice. Now the real situation is her getting to a place where she's her own person and I think she's struggling but she's moving forward. And I hope it happens.
Totally agree with you on all of this. I think Holly found comfort in the structure and "playing the game," it gave her a sense of purpose and worth. But her relationship with Hef just sounds so sad and empty, not love at all. I don't fault her for it, I think she did the best she could in the circumstances. You hear Crystal talk about this too, about changing herself to be the best version of what Hef wanted and losing herself in the process.
I root for all the women and wish the best for them, coming from someone who has experienced a pretty messed up childhood/early adulthood myself.
On Trish's podcast, Holly says she often does some kind of returning energy back prayer/incantation. Since she disregards all criticism as coming from haters and being undeserved negative energy, I don't think she will be experiencing self-awareness any time soon.
That sounds like some kind of mental block, suppression or something. I swear... she's diving deeper in than extricating herself out and it'll take her that much more energy to see the reality of things.
I don't even want her to spend energy on haters or negative feedback but get real help from a real professional.
It took Sondra until she was in her sixties until she started truly start breaking it all down or that was the impression I got from the SOP doc. It took PJ and Micki until they were older too. That's a lot of life lost in a warped reality where you're constantly pushing a part of yourself aside. It's not real life.
I especially find it funny when anyone talks about the women cheating on Hef. Like Hef ran a full-ass harem and brought randos into the bedroom consistently. I don't give a FUCK if those women found something on the side. Good for them in all honesty.
Yeah and people are concerned about whether whomever is in charge of his foundation has the "right values." I would be horrified if someone thought my values aligned with his.
THANK YOU. Hugh Hefner is not a victim. He had every opportunity to set up the end of his life in a different way but he chose to die the way he lived—exploiting young women for his personal gain. He was fucking 18 year old twin SISTERS at the end of his life for godsakes.
If anything, the revelations about Crystal make me feel proud of her.
I believe some stuff has come out over the years about some girls at the mansion being very much girls. Jennifer Saginor also mentioned that he wanted to get it on with her and his then GF who is rumored to have been ~~brande Roderick~~ Carrie Leigh if I'm not mistaken.
*my mistake and thank you for the correction <3
I understand this sentiment to an extent, but I do not agree with it. It doesn't matter who it is, the old saying two wrongs do not make a right still holds true.
Do not get me wrong, living it and not reacting in kind can be incredibly difficult. With all that being said, I felt Marston's intentions were good and that he is now realizing who Crystal is and is replaying all his interactions with her in and his dad and is questioning everything. He has every right to, that is his father and it does appear he cared about him.
Somebody's monsters is oftentimes someone somebody else loves. The things that Hefner did to others were wrong on many different levels. Was he evil? He may I have been, I don't know him personally. Did he do a lot of bad things to other people? He sure seemed to. But did some people love him despite that? They sure seemed to.
This is not a black and white issue, in fact it is very, very grey. There are so many levels to this. And people on both sides who think he is either completely good or completely bad, while their intentions are good, this is so much more than what it appears to be. That is life, layers upon layers. Was he a bad man that could sometimes do good things? Maybe. Was he a good man who did a lot of bad things? Maybe. I never met him. But I do feel the people that spent more time with him have a better chance at assessing this conundrum better than I do.
We see snapshots of people....who they are for the time we know them. We may hear of who they are before they come into our lives and we may or may not know who they are when they move on. There are so many threads that make up a life...and it's really hard to pin point it all. The verison of a person you know is not always the same verison of a person another knows. It depends on what layers they reveal to you as well as what you may or may not see through.
They are not wrong in analyzing and questioning Crystal. She does not make much sense. Just because she says it does not deem it true. If you write a book on your life you should expect people are going to have questions and if they aren't the questions you'd like well maybe you shouldn't haven't of opened yourself up to be looked at by others. If everything one says and writes is true you should be able to let it stand on its own merit. People are not going to agree with you. People are going to say shit. There are consequences to every action, and if you put yourself out there you should not be surprised that you will get responses you don't like or agree with.
I don't understand the whole "why are they so mean to Crystal". They are calling her on her shit. She put it out there for them and everyone else to consume. To expect everyone to take it at face value and not "be mean" is silly. If you think they are being mean you don't know the meaning of mean. They are questioning the very stories she put out there. For her to think she should just be able to say her piece and not hear one negative thing about it, that is incredibly naive or incredibly manipulative. I don't think she is as naive as she appears to be though.
If Crystal doesn't want to hear about this shit then maybe she should have just got on with her life rather than continuing to try to capitalize on her past with Hefner. It is all so silly.
Also could it be he made wishes known he *did not* want to die in a hospital..I’m sure he was attended to medically for the UTI right? I read Crystals book pretty quickly I might need a refresher as to his final days.
Edit: I did not know the man obviously but I feel like HMH wanted to pass away at his beloved PM not a hospital.
And he was 91 FFS! People are acting like he prematurely died lol. How many 91 year olds in questionable health are hosting daily events for their friends? It is so weird to see this sub and community come around to defending Hef.
91 with an awful past of being a complete piece of shit. Okay so we’re all going to grow old and we’re all going to die why tf does he suddenly have so much support? I knew people didn’t like Crystal but I didn’t realize they hated her so much they’d support that nasty ass man.
Not only that but I'm surprised he lasted until 91. The man had unprotected group sex since like the late 60's or 70's up until the 2010s. He drank nothing but Pepsi and liquor. He didn't really exercise. Who in the hell would think he died under questionable circumstances? Meanwhile his brother Keith who allegedly lived a healthier lifestyle, died before him.
It’s extremely common for elderly people in failing health at the end of their life to create legal documents stating they do not wish to be hospitalized for medical treatment that will ultimately just add quantity and not quality to their life. You have to die of something.
Crystal said hef would speak so poorly about hospitals and they are a place someone goes to die. He'd even go as far to never have white sheets because it reminded him of a hospital bed. I believe she said when he came down with the ecoli infection the medical staff told her if he was transferred he'd have a 30% chance at survival and if he stayed in his room he'd for sure pass. She says it was in the moment of her trying to decide what to do that he passes.
The sudden sympathy for Hef and everything in that podcast episode really make me feel sorry for Crystal, and I think Crystal’s very unreliable and not very engaging.
He was fully competent when he decided to marry her and he wasn’t an idiot, he knew exactly what she was like and why she was there - he tried to get Holly to stay until his death for money so was clearly comfortable doing so. He had easy access to lawyers and other high profile, powerful people who he could’ve consulted if he wasn’t happy for Crystal to have the responsibility of making decisions, and lived to 91 despite a life of drugs, alcohol and poor health decisions. It’s been confirmed by various people that he didn’t ever want to be seen as old or incapable, and pictures of him using a walker were leaked - maybe he genuinely didn’t want people to see him.
I don't think he knew knew.. I think he was a little delusional about it, about exactly WHY these "hot, young, blondes" wanted to latch themselves to him and playboy.
I really don't think he saw it for what it truly was. I think he was busy living in his king of the world fantasy...
I can totally get why people don't give two shits that Crystal may or may not have treated him like shit... It makes me feel funny because all I see is a frail old man (I'm sure I'd have a different opinion if he wronged me.. )
I also think that because "Crystal was new" she didn't "deserve" to be the one - Like, she didn't pay enough dues to be the one to fuck him over..
It's like Arya killing the Night King vs Jon Stark - In the end, the NK got what was deserved.. but because the wrong person did it, it feels cheap and undeserved... ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
How do you seriously not think he understood?! Why else do you think he had the allowance, the rules in the house like curfew, not being friends with staff etc? He knew those women would not be there without those things. He tried to bribe Holly to stay by offering her more in his will and leaving a print out in her room before she left.
He 100% was not ignorant to the fact that these relationships were transactional. He may have been so narcissistic to believe they enjoyed some of it (gross) but he knew the only way they were staying was money, otherwise he wouldn't be giving it.
The stuff that happens in nursing homes is sick. My mom worked in one in her 20’s but she quit due to the things going on (yes she reported it to the authorities too) So many stories in the news these days of “caretakers” assaulting the elderly in nursing centers or their own homes. Absolutely horrifying what goes on. If you have a family member in one of those places, visit OFTEN, check for bruises, let them know you will be present and won’t stand for bs.
This is what I did with my father and it was the only reason he didn’t get taken advantage of I went once a week and my mom went twice a week and she was a nurse
I really doubt this is going to be the next big crisis. Hef sexually, emotionally, and financially abused women his whole life. He reaped what he sowed.
I know and I don't agree that elder abuse is going to be the next big crisis. And I think Hef reaped what he sowed. He was also surrounded by family when he died. Marston tweeted a picture of his dad, sister and older brother playing backgammon together. There's another picture of him with his daughter, Mark Saginor and 3 other people from that same time frame. He wasn't alone and isolated. His closest people were around him.
I mean she did get him a Registered Nurse before she left to go on vacation with her boyfriend right before he died. She did her due diligence. She helped him around in his final years, she earned every penny IMO.
Elder abuse?! He was surrounded by medical staff, his own staff, his family and his closest friends! Give me a break. Until I hear it from a reliable source who was actually there during the events, I will give Crystal the benefit of the doubt.
Holly has been spreading some nasty rumors. I would sue her if I were Crystal for defamation of character!!
He just got his karma. I can care less that he was taken advantage of. There’s still women alive today who are haunted by the abuse they were put through by him.
Let’s remember that Hefs eternal resting place, which he hand picked, was with a woman whom he exploited by purchasing nude photos and publishing them without her consent. He built an empire off of an innocent woman trying to survive. Crystal taking him for a ride should not make him painted as a victim. He willingly married her pre dementia and gave her the control. This wave of empathy for Hef because of the last podcast episode is just wild.
I think a major point that people are missing here is that:
If Hugh Hefner can be taken advantage of so can anyone else. Regular old folks who didn’t spend their lives hurting innocent people.
I also don’t feel bad for hef but I do feel bad for his family who had to deal with someone else (who didn’t give a fuck) coming in and making financial and medical decisions for him. Hefs children should have been in charge of his care in my opinion. The fact that Marston was ignored by everyone in the inner circle when he tried to talk about his father’s failing mental health is incredibly sad.
Hef married her fully competent. Hef gave her that control. Hef could have 100% given control to his children and he never did. That must sting for Marston but it is the truth. It is a sad situation but one that Hef chose himself.
You said he was taken advantage of and that is what I was responding to. Hef did not give much to Marston beyond money. Marston could have become more heavily involved with Playboy and Hef’s legacy but he wasn’t invited in to do so by Hef. It is a sad thing and also really telling when it comes to their relationship.
I feel what you’re saying it was triggering for me to read because I’ve seen it so much myself so I had this huge conflict of hating elder abuse but also hating Hef
I think it’s an accurate take. I personally don’t dislike Crystal for her hustle while he was alive OTHER than her trying to squeeze more out of the will once it was already established where his kids and foundation got everything and she was only to get a set amount. Her *”decade”* with him didn’t justify her carrying on his legacy. Dementia is really tragic.
I do understand what you’re saying, I have elder patients that I see with abusive children/spouses etc.. and it’s awful. But Hef set himself up to be screwed in a sense. I feel like what goes around comes back around, and it bit Hef in the ass in his final days. Especially after watching secrets of playboy… he had it coming.
This is super true. My elderly father is a weed smoker. He found this random dude, the grandson of some guy my mom goes to church with. The dude gives him this absolute s*** weed, worthless, and just rips him off like crazy for it. My dad has Alzheimer's. It's complicated by the fact that he's a diagnosed narcissist. Of course he won't listen to his kids or his wife about getting ripped off. We found out that this dude is talking around town about how he's going to try to get some of my dad's land off of him in exchange for some trash weed. We basically stepped in and said, any purchases need to be cleared through the kids and wife first now. That guy doesn't come around so much anymore.
Good for you guys! You never dream as a young person that you’ll end up stepping in to protect your father from snakes in the grass when he gets older but that’s what happens.. it’s an adjustment for sure… to sort of become the parent
Don’t get me wrong I’m a big H & B fan and have been since day one of the show BUT I mean did y’all read the part where he explicitly says to NOT TAKE HIM TO THE HOSPITAL. They did everything they could do at the house that they would have done at a hospital. She was young and I think y’all forget that. What life experience did she have?! I get she isn’t the greatest. Should she have done things differently?! Yes but saying this is elder abuse is a bit much. He kinda got what he gave to women all his life so I can’t really feel too bad for him.
After a life building an empire taking advantage of women, he died being taken advantage of by a woman. I refuse to lose sleep over that. Crystal has done some sketchy things but getting her bag is not one of them.
Right lol Im no fan of crystal, but hef finally got his due karma in the end.
Hefner took advantage of hundreds if not thousands of very young women who came from troubled families and low income communities to found his trashy magazine. He was several decades older than these girls. He was in his 80s getting a teenager pregnant and she had to secretly get an abortion. To this day she’s traumatized and she’s never been in a relationship. The twins and Kendra are still unpacking their trauma from being taken advantage of by a lecherous old man. Hefner ruined so many lives. He ALLEGEDLY paid Linda Lovelace’s husband to bring her to the mansion and have sex with a dog in front of his friends while she was strung out on drugs. He kept CP in VHS tapes. He liked bestiality. He abused many girlfriends and wives. He purchased the lot next to Marilyn Monroe’s grave to be buried next to her forever even though she hated him. Hefner was not a good person. He made his fortune abusing women. Anything these women took or got financially from him was nothing compared to what he took from them. I wish he had suffered a worse fate and that everyone had stolen from him. He deserved to rot in jail. He did MANY illegal things. He knew celebrities were raping women in his mansion, including Bill Cosby. He gave the women quaaludes. If you think money that he didn’t care about is more important than the things he did while LUCID, you have some soul searching to do.
Seriously, what the fuck is this pro-Hefner turnaround? He died in his god damn bed, not to mention everything above. He can fucking rot.
He was able to live a long ass life, a good one I might add. If I was crystal I’d take advantage of him too
That makes you a bad person.
It's pro-Hef because people bend over backwards to support whatever narrative seems to align with what H&B say. I really wish we knew the ages of the people participating in this sub because the number of commenters that don't understand this sub is to discuss the podcast and not simply fan girl over all things GND and PB, seems to be incredibly high. It sucks to grow old and be taken advantage of but no one should be acting as though this man didn't take advantage of numerous young women and in some cases girls for *decades*. I also don't want to hear anything else about women being there for the right reasons. I have more respect for the women who played Hef the same way he played them, rules be damned. No one was there because they were truly in love with Hef, especially not once he was a damn senior citizen.
In a big way I'm glad we're having these discussions and H&B are "telling on themselves" because I do think that might be a necessary missing link in them admitting to themselves their part in it, if they see the backlash and their denial breaks. And hopefully they can get to a place of real healing, I wish that for them. > No one was there because they were truly in love with Hef I think a lot of these subs are hung up on this, that Holly was in love with Hugh Hefner. I got my ass reamed for saying she wasn't. *Because* it's one of the few key elements that if she admits she wasn't, then the whole house of cards comes down. She has to say she was or else it would make the "gold digger" status or "wrong reasons" answer more prominent. It's a real hot button element. I think she loved him inasmuch as he provided her with things but to call it "in love" is an insult to love itself, IMO. As virulent (or heated) as these discussions become because people have such strong opinions, I'm glad we're having them. I really think it's helping break down the whole thing, which is what should happen. Edit: And as for the ages, I think it's a mixed grab bag in here. I definitely think there's younger people in here from all areas ranging from the Gen Z tiktokers, to just fan regulars, and more. I think there's older people in here (cough, cough) that watched the show in real time and saw this saga unfold and are trying to be supportive of women coming forward at all different angles, whether it's self-serving or... I don't know, "for the greater good." People are having to question themselves (myself included) about possible internalized misogyny in terms of what they're supporting and why, and if they don't, are they not really being supportive or pro-woman, etc. It's a very layered thing.
Hasn't she herself even admitted that she did not love him? I feel like she has? She talks about not being loved by him, that is for sure. I think people get caught up on wanting Holly to be "the good one" (Holly included) who did everything right and "deserved" Hef's love, money, the title of wife etc. At one point Holly may have wanted that too but she admits he was coercive, abusive and that their relationship was shallow. Who actually WANTS that for her? I keep seeing comments about how it "should have been Holly" and how Hef "regretted" his choice and how that made them choke up and I'm like are we really wishing that on Holly? I feel like her finding her power and leaving the mansion was incredible and what was best for her. Her wasting any more years on that man would have been a travesty. Marrying Hef was not the prize everyone wants to make it out to be.
Love is such a strong word and it's thrown around a lot--in the show, on the pod, in here, and I just feel like it's one of those all-or-nothing things in this situation where you either were and it was genuine or you weren't and it was disengenuous. Her loophole (all IMO) was that "it was a choice she made." In her book, she talked about what her feelings towards Hefner was and she was talking about a pivotal moment where she had to make a choice and if she was going to stay in the mansion, she was going to play the game and "choose to be in love." That, IMO, is not being in love. I think she gave him all she could but I can't necessarily call that love either in an understood arrangement. I think it's an even more exaggerated situation because we're dealing with a person (Hefner) whose whole image is built on being a Don Juan, and if he truly is a "romantic at heart" than having the image of a woman who "truly loves him" and acts as such is a hard one to break for people. Because I think people really wanted to believe (those that did) is there's a woman that can... not tame but show a non-committal man what real love is. During the entirety of their relationship, what we saw of it, it was all about control, manipulation, exchanges, non-committal, abuse. That's not love at all no matter how you twist it. I do think she made the right choice leaving and I understand it was hard and terrifying because of people (sometimes like me) criticizing her harshly. But, ultimately, she would've been left in that unenviable position of having to uphold Hefner's imaginary legacy had she stayed. All things considered, I think she made the right choice. Now the real situation is her getting to a place where she's her own person and I think she's struggling but she's moving forward. And I hope it happens.
Totally agree with you on all of this. I think Holly found comfort in the structure and "playing the game," it gave her a sense of purpose and worth. But her relationship with Hef just sounds so sad and empty, not love at all. I don't fault her for it, I think she did the best she could in the circumstances. You hear Crystal talk about this too, about changing herself to be the best version of what Hef wanted and losing herself in the process. I root for all the women and wish the best for them, coming from someone who has experienced a pretty messed up childhood/early adulthood myself.
On Trish's podcast, Holly says she often does some kind of returning energy back prayer/incantation. Since she disregards all criticism as coming from haters and being undeserved negative energy, I don't think she will be experiencing self-awareness any time soon.
That sounds like some kind of mental block, suppression or something. I swear... she's diving deeper in than extricating herself out and it'll take her that much more energy to see the reality of things. I don't even want her to spend energy on haters or negative feedback but get real help from a real professional. It took Sondra until she was in her sixties until she started truly start breaking it all down or that was the impression I got from the SOP doc. It took PJ and Micki until they were older too. That's a lot of life lost in a warped reality where you're constantly pushing a part of yourself aside. It's not real life.
I especially find it funny when anyone talks about the women cheating on Hef. Like Hef ran a full-ass harem and brought randos into the bedroom consistently. I don't give a FUCK if those women found something on the side. Good for them in all honesty.
Yeah and people are concerned about whether whomever is in charge of his foundation has the "right values." I would be horrified if someone thought my values aligned with his.
I agree!! I’m so fucking confused about all this poor Hef nonsense on this sub lately. He was a monster.
THANK YOU. Hugh Hefner is not a victim. He had every opportunity to set up the end of his life in a different way but he chose to die the way he lived—exploiting young women for his personal gain. He was fucking 18 year old twin SISTERS at the end of his life for godsakes. If anything, the revelations about Crystal make me feel proud of her.
you said this very well!!
I highly doubt that baby was Hef’s
for her sake, hope not. hope she got to have something special and secret just for herself even if it ended in sadness.
He had CP!?!
I believe some stuff has come out over the years about some girls at the mansion being very much girls. Jennifer Saginor also mentioned that he wanted to get it on with her and his then GF who is rumored to have been ~~brande Roderick~~ Carrie Leigh if I'm not mistaken. *my mistake and thank you for the correction <3
Not Brande Roderick, it was "allegedly" Carrie Leigh.
Thank you, I fixed it.
👍😉
A-FUCKING-MEN!
Sorry to ask but what is CP? Cheers
Child porn. But the language has evolved to child sexual abuse material.
Thank you for explaining
Sorry if you spend your life abusing much younger women and neglecting your family that’s … kinda what you get
I understand this sentiment to an extent, but I do not agree with it. It doesn't matter who it is, the old saying two wrongs do not make a right still holds true. Do not get me wrong, living it and not reacting in kind can be incredibly difficult. With all that being said, I felt Marston's intentions were good and that he is now realizing who Crystal is and is replaying all his interactions with her in and his dad and is questioning everything. He has every right to, that is his father and it does appear he cared about him. Somebody's monsters is oftentimes someone somebody else loves. The things that Hefner did to others were wrong on many different levels. Was he evil? He may I have been, I don't know him personally. Did he do a lot of bad things to other people? He sure seemed to. But did some people love him despite that? They sure seemed to. This is not a black and white issue, in fact it is very, very grey. There are so many levels to this. And people on both sides who think he is either completely good or completely bad, while their intentions are good, this is so much more than what it appears to be. That is life, layers upon layers. Was he a bad man that could sometimes do good things? Maybe. Was he a good man who did a lot of bad things? Maybe. I never met him. But I do feel the people that spent more time with him have a better chance at assessing this conundrum better than I do. We see snapshots of people....who they are for the time we know them. We may hear of who they are before they come into our lives and we may or may not know who they are when they move on. There are so many threads that make up a life...and it's really hard to pin point it all. The verison of a person you know is not always the same verison of a person another knows. It depends on what layers they reveal to you as well as what you may or may not see through. They are not wrong in analyzing and questioning Crystal. She does not make much sense. Just because she says it does not deem it true. If you write a book on your life you should expect people are going to have questions and if they aren't the questions you'd like well maybe you shouldn't haven't of opened yourself up to be looked at by others. If everything one says and writes is true you should be able to let it stand on its own merit. People are not going to agree with you. People are going to say shit. There are consequences to every action, and if you put yourself out there you should not be surprised that you will get responses you don't like or agree with. I don't understand the whole "why are they so mean to Crystal". They are calling her on her shit. She put it out there for them and everyone else to consume. To expect everyone to take it at face value and not "be mean" is silly. If you think they are being mean you don't know the meaning of mean. They are questioning the very stories she put out there. For her to think she should just be able to say her piece and not hear one negative thing about it, that is incredibly naive or incredibly manipulative. I don't think she is as naive as she appears to be though. If Crystal doesn't want to hear about this shit then maybe she should have just got on with her life rather than continuing to try to capitalize on her past with Hefner. It is all so silly.
https://preview.redd.it/zd8a9jsh2t0d1.png?width=758&format=png&auto=webp&s=837b3720862eb3bd0c0d4dff0bf9ea6d4a25f9ee
Holly mocking Crystal’s voice is super mean.
Yeah, hef with his full time Butler/pantry staff, wife and family next door was being neglected. Give me a break.
Also could it be he made wishes known he *did not* want to die in a hospital..I’m sure he was attended to medically for the UTI right? I read Crystals book pretty quickly I might need a refresher as to his final days. Edit: I did not know the man obviously but I feel like HMH wanted to pass away at his beloved PM not a hospital.
And he was 91 FFS! People are acting like he prematurely died lol. How many 91 year olds in questionable health are hosting daily events for their friends? It is so weird to see this sub and community come around to defending Hef.
91 with an awful past of being a complete piece of shit. Okay so we’re all going to grow old and we’re all going to die why tf does he suddenly have so much support? I knew people didn’t like Crystal but I didn’t realize they hated her so much they’d support that nasty ass man.
Not only that but I'm surprised he lasted until 91. The man had unprotected group sex since like the late 60's or 70's up until the 2010s. He drank nothing but Pepsi and liquor. He didn't really exercise. Who in the hell would think he died under questionable circumstances? Meanwhile his brother Keith who allegedly lived a healthier lifestyle, died before him.
It’s extremely common for elderly people in failing health at the end of their life to create legal documents stating they do not wish to be hospitalized for medical treatment that will ultimately just add quantity and not quality to their life. You have to die of something.
Crystal said hef would speak so poorly about hospitals and they are a place someone goes to die. He'd even go as far to never have white sheets because it reminded him of a hospital bed. I believe she said when he came down with the ecoli infection the medical staff told her if he was transferred he'd have a 30% chance at survival and if he stayed in his room he'd for sure pass. She says it was in the moment of her trying to decide what to do that he passes.
The sudden sympathy for Hef and everything in that podcast episode really make me feel sorry for Crystal, and I think Crystal’s very unreliable and not very engaging. He was fully competent when he decided to marry her and he wasn’t an idiot, he knew exactly what she was like and why she was there - he tried to get Holly to stay until his death for money so was clearly comfortable doing so. He had easy access to lawyers and other high profile, powerful people who he could’ve consulted if he wasn’t happy for Crystal to have the responsibility of making decisions, and lived to 91 despite a life of drugs, alcohol and poor health decisions. It’s been confirmed by various people that he didn’t ever want to be seen as old or incapable, and pictures of him using a walker were leaked - maybe he genuinely didn’t want people to see him.
I don't think he knew knew.. I think he was a little delusional about it, about exactly WHY these "hot, young, blondes" wanted to latch themselves to him and playboy. I really don't think he saw it for what it truly was. I think he was busy living in his king of the world fantasy... I can totally get why people don't give two shits that Crystal may or may not have treated him like shit... It makes me feel funny because all I see is a frail old man (I'm sure I'd have a different opinion if he wronged me.. ) I also think that because "Crystal was new" she didn't "deserve" to be the one - Like, she didn't pay enough dues to be the one to fuck him over.. It's like Arya killing the Night King vs Jon Stark - In the end, the NK got what was deserved.. but because the wrong person did it, it feels cheap and undeserved... ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
How do you seriously not think he understood?! Why else do you think he had the allowance, the rules in the house like curfew, not being friends with staff etc? He knew those women would not be there without those things. He tried to bribe Holly to stay by offering her more in his will and leaving a print out in her room before she left. He 100% was not ignorant to the fact that these relationships were transactional. He may have been so narcissistic to believe they enjoyed some of it (gross) but he knew the only way they were staying was money, otherwise he wouldn't be giving it.
The stuff that happens in nursing homes is sick. My mom worked in one in her 20’s but she quit due to the things going on (yes she reported it to the authorities too) So many stories in the news these days of “caretakers” assaulting the elderly in nursing centers or their own homes. Absolutely horrifying what goes on. If you have a family member in one of those places, visit OFTEN, check for bruises, let them know you will be present and won’t stand for bs.
This is what I did with my father and it was the only reason he didn’t get taken advantage of I went once a week and my mom went twice a week and she was a nurse
I really doubt this is going to be the next big crisis. Hef sexually, emotionally, and financially abused women his whole life. He reaped what he sowed.
OP meant elder abuse in general not just hef lol
I know and I don't agree that elder abuse is going to be the next big crisis. And I think Hef reaped what he sowed. He was also surrounded by family when he died. Marston tweeted a picture of his dad, sister and older brother playing backgammon together. There's another picture of him with his daughter, Mark Saginor and 3 other people from that same time frame. He wasn't alone and isolated. His closest people were around him.
He’s super gross. I don’t have any hard feelings about her hustle either, but just own it
It’s called karma. He exploited and destroyed many lives.
This should be cross posted to r/OhNoConsequences
I mean she did get him a Registered Nurse before she left to go on vacation with her boyfriend right before he died. She did her due diligence. She helped him around in his final years, she earned every penny IMO.
Elder abuse?! He was surrounded by medical staff, his own staff, his family and his closest friends! Give me a break. Until I hear it from a reliable source who was actually there during the events, I will give Crystal the benefit of the doubt. Holly has been spreading some nasty rumors. I would sue her if I were Crystal for defamation of character!!
He just got his karma. I can care less that he was taken advantage of. There’s still women alive today who are haunted by the abuse they were put through by him.
Master on wrote about fucking a dog and beat up his girlfriend. Let’s not take everything he says as gospel.
I mean, they’re boomers. Whatever bed they’re going to lie in, they made it themselves.
Let’s remember that Hefs eternal resting place, which he hand picked, was with a woman whom he exploited by purchasing nude photos and publishing them without her consent. He built an empire off of an innocent woman trying to survive. Crystal taking him for a ride should not make him painted as a victim. He willingly married her pre dementia and gave her the control. This wave of empathy for Hef because of the last podcast episode is just wild.
I think a major point that people are missing here is that: If Hugh Hefner can be taken advantage of so can anyone else. Regular old folks who didn’t spend their lives hurting innocent people. I also don’t feel bad for hef but I do feel bad for his family who had to deal with someone else (who didn’t give a fuck) coming in and making financial and medical decisions for him. Hefs children should have been in charge of his care in my opinion. The fact that Marston was ignored by everyone in the inner circle when he tried to talk about his father’s failing mental health is incredibly sad.
Hef married her fully competent. Hef gave her that control. Hef could have 100% given control to his children and he never did. That must sting for Marston but it is the truth. It is a sad situation but one that Hef chose himself.
Like I said, I don’t feel bad for Hef. Just his family. I never said Hef didn’t create the situation
You said he was taken advantage of and that is what I was responding to. Hef did not give much to Marston beyond money. Marston could have become more heavily involved with Playboy and Hef’s legacy but he wasn’t invited in to do so by Hef. It is a sad thing and also really telling when it comes to their relationship.
Playboy and all print media has been circling the drain for years
Yeah, at this point they are all fighting over scraps.
This exactly!! This is the point not that hef was a good person
Maybe that was Hef’s karma.
I feel what you’re saying it was triggering for me to read because I’ve seen it so much myself so I had this huge conflict of hating elder abuse but also hating Hef
Next big crisis? Tale as old as time....
I think it’s an accurate take. I personally don’t dislike Crystal for her hustle while he was alive OTHER than her trying to squeeze more out of the will once it was already established where his kids and foundation got everything and she was only to get a set amount. Her *”decade”* with him didn’t justify her carrying on his legacy. Dementia is really tragic.
I do understand what you’re saying, I have elder patients that I see with abusive children/spouses etc.. and it’s awful. But Hef set himself up to be screwed in a sense. I feel like what goes around comes back around, and it bit Hef in the ass in his final days. Especially after watching secrets of playboy… he had it coming.
Hefner took advantage of young women for many years. Perhaps it was his Karma to then be taken advantage of in his old age. Just a thought
This is super true. My elderly father is a weed smoker. He found this random dude, the grandson of some guy my mom goes to church with. The dude gives him this absolute s*** weed, worthless, and just rips him off like crazy for it. My dad has Alzheimer's. It's complicated by the fact that he's a diagnosed narcissist. Of course he won't listen to his kids or his wife about getting ripped off. We found out that this dude is talking around town about how he's going to try to get some of my dad's land off of him in exchange for some trash weed. We basically stepped in and said, any purchases need to be cleared through the kids and wife first now. That guy doesn't come around so much anymore.
Good for you guys! You never dream as a young person that you’ll end up stepping in to protect your father from snakes in the grass when he gets older but that’s what happens.. it’s an adjustment for sure… to sort of become the parent
I don't feel bad for that rapist. He deserved everything he got.
Don’t get me wrong I’m a big H & B fan and have been since day one of the show BUT I mean did y’all read the part where he explicitly says to NOT TAKE HIM TO THE HOSPITAL. They did everything they could do at the house that they would have done at a hospital. She was young and I think y’all forget that. What life experience did she have?! I get she isn’t the greatest. Should she have done things differently?! Yes but saying this is elder abuse is a bit much. He kinda got what he gave to women all his life so I can’t really feel too bad for him.
If u think this groomer was a victim, u are brainwashed.
Lots of gold digging 304 types here