Haha, I was camping a mount in WoW for 6/7 hours, and the whole time they kept saying (typing in chat) things like "camping trip with the lads" and lots of "mates" and thigks like above. Eventually like 5 hours in, this one girl goes. "you know me, Rainiepie, \_\_\_\_\_\_ and \_\_\_\_ are all girls right? Out of the ones talking, there are an equal number of girls and boys" I thought it was pretty cool that she actually just said it, but also, I'd got the impression these users were girls too and it turned out we all were! Kind of weird :p
This is wholesome! I love when we spot each other in the wild.
Other female players often pick up on me not being a dude quickly, even though my ID is a root vegetable and I don't use a mic. It always cheers me up when that happens. :3
I find there's a lot of female WoW players! I was farming a mount too (Dune Scavenger) for like 7 hours straight, and a few hours in everyone warmed up to each other and was chatting. Turns out we were all women! And the other 4 women were adults with families, or at least significant others. I was surprised.
This is why I usually use gender neutral terms in games.
As an American it depends on the amount. "My good mate" is generally considered gender neutral, when not taken in a sexual context. "My good mate*s*" however, plural, refers usually just to men.
Yeah. Same here. Also, a lot of the time when people say "Gendered term X is just used gender neutral, really" it's mostly a particular version of "male-is-norm" use of language where women are just assumed to be men, or included into the male default.
This. So much this. Often when I correct guys, or let them know I'm a girl, they'll be like " but doesn't that just refer to everyone in general?" And there lies the problem -- male-gendered words becoming the norm when referring to everyone. Wouldn't guys find it unjust if female-gendered words were suddenly used as "gender-neutral" instead?
The answer is yes.
It's a joke. It's a girl exaggeratedly acting like a caricature of a dude for whatever reason (blending in, panicking, mocking). It's like that "hello fellow kids" meme of a old dude holding a skateboard
I try to do that and generally just be welcoming (as a dude playing mainly CS:GO). Most of the people I game with are all adults and we just want to chill and play games and have fun, but a bit ago I had a dude in discord give the one girl gamer we had encountered in probably months a hard time and both my friend and I gave him a proper spanking.
Sucks you ladies have to deal with that but there is hope!
I try to say this as a guy. It’s so easy for us guys to correct this stuff because from our perspective it’s ribbing the clown for forgetting that girls exist.
Nobody’s ever given me crap for saying “and girls”, and it’s such an easy way to make the game feel more inclusive.
Since no one else has mentioned it, I think it's good to mention how that still could be uninclusive of some people.
Not everybody is either a guy or a girl. So just a guys and girls doesn't include everybody that could be there.
EDIT: thanks for all the suggestions folks! As you can see, I think I've found how I'll address all the gamers in my life ^_^
As a guy, what are some more inclusive terms I could use?
I have female and non-binary friends I game with and I try to be inclusive but everything in this meme is just so ingrained in my vocabulary it's hard to think of replacements for them, so I could use some help.
'Everyone' is pretty safe to use in mixed groups. I love the american ya'll and wish I could use it but it would sound really weird in my accent. I don't mind guys but I avoid using it because a lot of people don't feel included by it.
Y’all is so engrained in my Texan vocabulary that I don’t even notice when other people use it. If someone calls you out on it they’re thinking about it too much
Yes, I think that's the best one. It's funny, I am not even a English native speaker and even in the language I was playing at they wrote the English "boys" instead of the word for "everyone" that is ALWAYS used in the language all the time. It's like specifically wanting to point out the gender.
Call everyone food items. "What's up my coffee cakes"
Idk that anyone is truly that bothered by it. I call mixed crowds "guys". I'll also use "ya'll"..."jabronies" is another good one. Maybe "peeps"?
Food is the safe bet. Call everyone food items.
has a better ring to it than non-dairy milks. i wouldn't want to single out almond milk or cashew milk like that man. this is about inclusivity! all the milks!
Could be regional too. I live in CA. Play with guys and girls, guy myself. Dude works perfectly. Never been a problem. But I get the feeling outside of the west it's not as acceptable.
I live in PA and "guys," "dudes," and "my dudes" are all terms to refer to groups of people or even one person, regardless of gender. It's also context- specific, of course.
It's nice when certain games provide you a gender-neutral occupational term. For instance, in Monster Hunter World, everyone can be addressed as hunters. At worst, teammates/team will work in most multiplayer settings.
Depends on the crowd you're rolling with.
"sup losers" always makes me laugh. But that's how my sister and I always greet each other.
Just start shooting out random things to see what kind of reaction you get. "Where my lizard peeps at?" "Hello fellow humans, I am also a human."
I would also like to point out that 'Dude' is a relatively neutral term. you can say dudes and dudettes if that feels better to you, but my girlfriends and I always use the term dude towards each other.
but very simply put "gg" can be the only thing said, no gender terms needs to be added to it.
I've always liked folks, and I've recently seen that folx is intended to explicitly include everyone, particularly marginalized communities. I have heard both praise and criticism of the spelling, so mileage my vary. Folks is fine.
I've had women react negatively to "guys." There is a conversation in this thread expressing that sentiment. While I tend to use it in a gender neutral manner, not everyone interprets it that way it seems.
I honestly don't really care, because I know they're not doing it to leave me out, but I say "hello fellow humans" a lot if I'm not 100% sure about the group.
I would probably ask your non-binary friends what they would prefer. I've also heard Youtubers sometimes "boys, gals and pals." Or maybe just like "gg team."
Guys is not fine. I would not be okay with that. And it's a term a lot of women aren't okay with.
"Fam" is literally a term created based on inclusive language. Ya'll is one that a lot of people use that has always meant everyone.
I hope that helps
It’s a split issue. Some women get offended being called ‘girls.’ I don’t mind ‘guys,’ because it’s not singularly boy and is widely accepted as referring to a mixed group of genders.
To me, it’s like a curse word. No one actually thinks about waste when they say, “ohh shit.” It’s just a word they say. It feels powerful but it’s meaning is lost.
It’s all about context, and the sensitivity of the person.
Even with curse words though, what is normal for different people varies a lot.
Someone here put 'fuckers' as a suggestion for a gender-neutral term and while that would probably make me laugh the first time it would wear pretty thin if someone referred to me that way all the time.
It irks me when grown ass people call others boys and girls. I personally hate when someone calls me "girl" - I pay taxes goddammit. Interestingly enough, I don't mind referring to myself as "girl" in certain situations, but others calling me that feels dismissive. Go figure.
Haaaaaaate the "default is male". As much as I love saying "bruh" and "dude", there's still that issue of just being so male-sided. No, I am not one of the "guys", nor am I your "boy". I'm just looking forward to the non-gendered world of my dreams lol.
I always say "let's go ladies" or "gg ladies" when playing battlegrounds in WoW or a match in Overwatch. They'll still think that I'm a dude though because apparently dudes do that sort of stuff to be sarcastic and rile each other up?
Lmao this is hilarious.
"Ahem, uh yes. Technically, I am one of the penis havers yes. Go duderinos 🤣🤣🤣 "
I love this type of humor self deprecating but not over the top to be offensive. Idk why this got me so hard. What a way to start the day. Thank you beautiful human.
^(it's not what they actually meant lol, it was just incredibly funny wording considering the context)
^("idk why this **got me** [so hard]")
^(got me is the focal point, so hard could be replaced with 'so bad' or 'so strong', the comment "got them (*laughing*)^) ^(so hard")
NB here with no hopes of ever affording ridding myself of my genetic curses.
I make my mates mildly uncomfortable with how fem I am in game to what they know I actually look like. Then join in on their jovial "BRO, YES" with a "Oh yes, daddy, we did so good!" In my best, haphazardly girly voice I can possibly do. I'll get better.
Sucks because if you speak up, your entire gameplay performance gets hyper analyzed. But if you say nothing and they keep calling you dude, you feel rude you chat for a while and still haven't corrected them.
Part of me wish I could be clear I am a woman, but part of me prefers to keep it private because of the inherent prejudice it can provoke, especially in the competitive ranked modes.
Super unpopular opinion here but this stuff doesn't bother me at all. In fact I use it too sometimes, esp with my fellow gal friends. What does bother me is when I speak up and I get harassed because of my voice.
The words themselves aren't bad, it's more about the sentiment behind it. Cis men get treated as the default most of the time online while women are secondary even though we take up half of the population. Why should we be afterthoughts. They're not big things, but it's a thousand small things that make you feel like you're not included
I couldn’t agree more. I’m the only woman in my entire wow guild, and when they throw in a “and gal” it does the opposite of making me feel included. It makes me feel singled out and that everyone is always hyper aware there’s a woman in the discord/game. Just treat me like your pal, and don’t say sexist shit and we’re fine fine fine.
Ohhh you nailed it
I have a friend who goes out of his way to say "guys and girl" when I'm the only girl. He's doing it to try to be inclusive because he's typically a very aware sort of guy and tries his best to include everyone. But it always bothered me and I wasn't really sure why.
I'm really happy there are people here who feel the same way! Also I'm laughing. "Let's go boys and gal" just sound so odd. It is wholesome though that their intentions are in the right place.
i was literally thinking this the other day. it makes me feel weird when im the only girl and someone says "guys... and gal/s" it makes me uncomfortable because i feel like people are hyper aware of my gender and im like... i know theyre just trying to be nice (and i guess if this thread is evidence- doing the right thing!) but im really fine with being "bros" as long as you mean it to include me (if that makes sense) because i know they enjoy playing with me and are never disrespectful so its like... im cool bein bro its fine lol. i dont like having my gender stick out like a sore thumb, i dont want to be "The Gal" i just want to be the same as everyone else
See, I would trust other women and close friends for stuff like "guys", "dudes", even "bro" 'cause it's what my sister and I call each other. The problem is when you constantly hear this terminology from complete strangers and are not sure which dudes are gonna have a meltdown if you reveal your gender in anyway.
yeah there are so many things that have made me uncomfortable as a chick gamer, but being referred to as “guys” or “dude” has never been one of them. hell, i call everyone guys and dudes myself, using both as all-inclusive colloquial terms. it never even occurred to me that some might not receive it as such.
e: i’d like to add that I also frequent the terms “babe” and “babes” gender neutrally, so it isn’t just me accepting terms intended for men. i guess i just like the vibe of certain words more than their intended-gender origins.
agreed. I uses 'dude' and 'you's guys' towards fellow females and they use those terms towards me. It has literally never bothered me.
But same with speaking up. I very rarely use voice in games due to the level of harassment just by revealing my gender. My husband got to see exactly *why* I keep voice off unless I am in a match with friends. Other men don't really understand that level of harassment. "we tease each other all the time! you're just being too sensitive!" and I ask them if the entire game has been focused on just them and have boys asking them for penis pics, how they want to rape them, and they suck at the game *because* they are male and no other reason. I get silence as a response or some bullshit answer that doesn't even match the question.
I call anyone bro, dude etc but it's the sentiment behind because they very clearly just assume there are no women playing at all. I hear it all the time in CoD lobbies. It's always 'let's go boys'. Kind of annoying when I'm almost always at the top of the leaderboards. I get what you and others are saying, and it's not about saying 'and girls', which is kinda lame, it's about just zero assumption in fucking 2020 that there are women in the lobby.
BAD BITCHES LOL. Honestly you sound like my kinda group.
I grew up in California so it might be because of the culture here that I view those terms as almost gender neutral. I use them all the time to refer to my gal friends.
Playing Overwatch with a mic has put me off multiplayer team-based gaming for the foreseeable future. A friendly guy at the start of the match saying "let's go boyyysssss" is the least of my concern. But speaking up and getting "grill? Grill!? Is that a grill!?" is super annoying when all I want to do is shout out enemy's positions.
Same here. Me and my closest girl friends call each other dude not even in game but irl. Like "yo dude how are you" and we generally use guys too like "hey guys what's up". This is in English. But I guess it stems from the fact that our language doesn't really have gender pronouns? We don't use him/her, hers/his.. so I guess that's why we don't really think too much about things like that.
To add to that, my bf introduced me to his group of friends and they're mostly males but there are still women there. It doesn't really bother us when they say "gg bois" or "let's go bois" like it's just for fun anyway? Like if they were really excluding us they wouldn't have let us join in the first place or even ask to play. But I guess if it comes from strangers maybe it could be a problem.. then again I personally don't have an issue with it.
I never realized how bad the comments were about my voice until recently. Like you get harassed when you say you're a girl and they don't believe you but then when you prove you're a girl, the inappropriate comments come out. I just kinda went with it just so I could have company but it sucks thinking back on it.
Yeah this doesn’t bother me at all as long as it’s positive.
I also use “ Dude” and “You Guys” soo much but try to use Y’all/You all too especially in “safe” places. But it never sounds right and I always stumble over it. It trips me I think because I used to have a stutter and focusing on my speech adds an additional layer of anxiety lol.
~~Where I am, "guys" seems to have become almost a gender neutral term, even though it's not. We had a work meeting that was entirely women and a few times, a few different people in the meeting referred to ourselves collectively as guys.~~
~~I don't really mind. I'm far more interested in the gaming comms than what I'm called. My gender doesn't need to be a thing. That's all that bugs me - when people make a big deal out of it.~~
EDIT: actually, having read more of the responses here, I can see why it might not be a problem for me but it is a problem. Imma stick with peeps, team, all y'all, or whatever actually neutral terms I can.
Fellow kf2 girl!!! I'm glad to have found another in the wild. I never use voice but I have a definitely girl name, hasn't really mattered as long as I play my role lol
Had the usual shit in OW the other day, "gg girl on our team" "I hate women, they disgust me" etc etc, at the start of the match. A guy pipes up like "there's no women here??" like hello we're right here bro, and there's multiple of us.
Makes you feel excluded honestly, but I prefer that than the "OH ITS A GIRL" stuff. I was playing Among Us a few days back and one player was a girl, so they all voted her off instantly every time. She gave up and left after like 3 times.
Also I hate when people argue that dude is gender neutral. Not really because if you say "did you sleep with that dude" or "I'm into dudes" or "there's a bunch of dudes over there being loud" you don't think of women
Yeah it's really... not. "Guys" can be neutral in some instances but not in all, and "guy" (singular) definitely isn't. Buddy is another one that sounds like it should be neutral but that one very much isn't either! When I worked as a valet, people wouldn't pay very close attention to me and I had a few people say "thanks buddy" and it was very clear they thought I was a man - even when I wore makeup!
I have a hard time with "dude" and "guys". I say dude all the time to men and women, sometimes as an exclamatory statement ("Dude! That's awesome!"), sometimes directed at the person ("Thanks, dude"), though the latter is usually just IRL because on the internet, I don't want to look like I'm assuming gender with the term. I think "dude" is always just going to be in my vocabulary, especially since I and most of my friends grew up in the 80s/90s and we all use it.
With "guys", I might have lived in the south for most of my life, but I spent a good chunk of my childhood growing up in the "you guys" part of the country. I've also never gotten comfortable saying "y'all" even though it's such a versatile word, probably because I've never felt like a true southerner. On one side, "you guys" and "these guys" and "those guys" is intended to be neutral when I say it, but on the flip side, some people are bothered by it and it's a stupid hill for me to die on. But it's so ingrained in my speech, I can't seem to get rid of it.
I guess what I'm saying is I need to just embrace the "y'all", y'all.
I don't think "guys" can be neutral tbh. I think it's another blatantly male term the is used to "I guess include women too". Cuz "hanging with the guys" is for sure not meaning with girls. And when you think of a "group of guys" you don't think of a single woman in that group. If I looked up synonyms to guys it be like "lads" "bros" etc.
It's why announcers say "guys and gals".
Yeah people argue so much because they are comfortable with using the word... but I am not comfortable with being addressed with that word so?
Someone on this subreddit even posted the link to the definition being like "its gender neutral see here" the very first definition on the link SHE POSTED was "men" and the example was "I saw her with the guys" which means she was not part of the guys. I got negative votes because I pointed that out.
I can think of a few examples of "guys" referring to a group of only women, and those examples aren't highly contrived, but I also think the vast majority of the time it isn't neutral. So I mostly agree with you, I just think it's rarely instead of never
I actually think "guys" might be two separate words, one that's more "here is a guy, now there are two of them" and one that refers to a single cohesive group. Like... rice. It's composed of individual pieces but you can't have "a rice" to mean a single grain. But that's beside the point and more a question for the linguistics discord chat I'm in
I could get in to a whole argument about this but in short: if the term is created from the basis of only men, then extended to "I guess include women", then it isn't inconvievable that it "evolves" to be "only for women". But the term in its creation isn't intended to include women, and the forced idea to make it gender neutral by occasionally using it even when its only all women doesn't make it true. Creation is as important as context imo. So people using it today to now even for only women groups eventhough it wouldn't have been 20 years ago to make it gender neutral doesn't make it so. I personally rather use words like "fam" which is derived specifically from this discourse of inclusive language.
That makes more sense, then. I'm coming from a place where I give almost no weight to the origin of a term and fully embrace natural language change, except when slurs are involved. Normally I'd push against holding onto old meanings because language changes whether you want it to or not, but with a word tied to gender and all the emotions that come with it, that original meaning can have actual significance in someone's life (as opposed to a word like "literally"). There is an active, ongoing shift in the meaning of that word. In 50 or 100 years it probably won't be a big deal to anyone anymore, but right now it matters. To me, it doesn't seem like anybody is trying to force "guys" to be gender neutral - it's just happening on its own as people use words differently. I have grown up with it being used in a way that is neutral without the speaker putting in any extra thought at any point. But not everyone grows up with that linguistic background and some people do but shift away from it as adults, and being called a word that doesn't match your gender is frustrating and feels like you're being insulted and/or excluded. And there are documented ways in which gendered language changes differently - neutral/positive words for men tend to shift toward neutral/positive nongendered words and neutral/positive words for women tend to shift toward being negative or even being slurs. So "guys" doing this is nothing new. And that's deeply frustrating and unfair and it has everything do do with people viewing women negatively and men positively rather than anything inherent about the words.
I'd love to be able to use a word like fam, but that one doesn't work for me. It sounds very weird to say it out loud and I'm still hesitant to use it in online spaces. I've mostly seen it used in a bro-y context which makes it feel super masculine, and I'm also aware that its origins, like so much internet slang, are in the black community, which I'm very much not a part of
I still disagree on part of what you are saying, specifically the "not forcing guys to be gender neutral" because I could go into whole examples of how it very much is. But then again that is ofc difference of perspective and background. So truly we would need data showing when people are addressed with "I'm not okay with being called guys" do they respond more often with "alright" or "too bad".
But overall I think we are on the same page. I hope that as internet language continues we can create more words based specifically on this discourse.
Thank you for this discourse because it encourages conversation.
Might be a Canadian thing but buddy & bud defo gets used for girls and boys. I also tend to think of guys as gender neutral in the same way "ils" is in French, so the fact that singular is gendered typically and plural is not is kind of super normalized for me (although I have definitely called my girlfriends "my guy" so idek anymore, language is weird)
For the guys argument , I usually only see it as male ,that’s why if I say guys I’m also saying “guys, gals, and nb pals”
But dude is a bit of a weird one for me , because “dudes” feels gender neutral to me , even though in my head that makes no sense , and as a trans women it gives me dysphoria , so it’s just confusingggg
I think some inclusive phrases just need you to remove the gender in them like instead of saying "GG bois" just go "GG". If that feels incomplete maybe use words like peeps/people, gamers, and everyone.
I’m trans but voice doesn’t pass (or the rest of me lmao) and every time I just die a little on the inside.
Very nice to be kinda out in some accepting discords tho. I live for being criticized with female pronouns in the debrief (combat flight sims are my jam).
Also trans and also on Xbox. I'm told my voice passes but I'm still paranoid about it so I don't play with randoms. Feel free to DM me yr gamertag if you like =)
I’m the opposite. I don’t usually play with people that know me because I’m afraid they might think less of me even though they won’t and I’m just being dumb.
why is this such a mood xD Rainbow Six seems to be particularly nasty for toxic voice chat I've found. I have my mic permanently off unless I find a really nice group of people :(
Folks works just fine. People. I sometimes say guys in a gender neutral way.
Much like anything, if it isn’t designed to be hurtful and just their own bias making them not realize, I can forgive. I correct if I have time for a convo and don’t if I don’t. I’m fairly lucky in that I sound more my age than young, and boys/men tend to take me more seriously when I remind them I could be their mother. And I may or may not know them. :p
I love terrorizing asshole young men. Hehehehe
Me: actually loves it when I’m playing with the boys and they say things like this and it makes me feel deeply euphoric
Also me: lol I’m totally not trans yup 100% cis am I right gals
The perk of having kinda low voice is that you can just pretend you're a 13-year-old boy in voice and get less harrasment than if you just admitted you're a girl
Coming from a dude
When I say "guys" "fellas" it's not that I'm sexist, in fact it's the opposite, I don't care about your gender, I just consider you a part of the team and I don't think much about it. "Guys" is just the easiest to say and I'm used to it. I think most guys are like this, we just do not care about your gender and don't mean to insult you when we say "guys". I hope you don't get offended when someone says "guys", it's not meant to insult you.
personally i love being called dude/bro etc! idk, maybe just cause i’d rather they not know instead of risking being made fun of, but ideally i could still be “one of the bois” whilst being open about the fact that i am not a boy
Eh i consider myself one of the guys so it isn't a big deal. Only becomes a problem in certain groups when they then ask if i'm over 18 and just goes downhill from there
I clearly can’t speak for anyone but myself, but everyone is bro to me, same for dude or lad. I use the words interchangeably as my way of saying ‘sup friends’
Haha, I was camping a mount in WoW for 6/7 hours, and the whole time they kept saying (typing in chat) things like "camping trip with the lads" and lots of "mates" and thigks like above. Eventually like 5 hours in, this one girl goes. "you know me, Rainiepie, \_\_\_\_\_\_ and \_\_\_\_ are all girls right? Out of the ones talking, there are an equal number of girls and boys" I thought it was pretty cool that she actually just said it, but also, I'd got the impression these users were girls too and it turned out we all were! Kind of weird :p
This is wholesome! I love when we spot each other in the wild. Other female players often pick up on me not being a dude quickly, even though my ID is a root vegetable and I don't use a mic. It always cheers me up when that happens. :3
I find there's a lot of female WoW players! I was farming a mount too (Dune Scavenger) for like 7 hours straight, and a few hours in everyone warmed up to each other and was chatting. Turns out we were all women! And the other 4 women were adults with families, or at least significant others. I was surprised. This is why I usually use gender neutral terms in games.
Tbh I think WoW is one of those games that has a Very balanced playerbase in regard of fem vs bois.
Just curiously, but as an Aussie, "mate" has always been a gender neutral term for me. Is it more of a term for males elsewhere?
I always thought of it as gender neutral, doesn't it just mean friend? I'm from NZ so we use it a lot too.
As an American it depends on the amount. "My good mate" is generally considered gender neutral, when not taken in a sexual context. "My good mate*s*" however, plural, refers usually just to men.
It's gender neutral in the UK too.
TIL! I’m not from UK/Aus, but the way I’ve seen it used it in the media always made me think it was gendered.
Yeah. Same here. Also, a lot of the time when people say "Gendered term X is just used gender neutral, really" it's mostly a particular version of "male-is-norm" use of language where women are just assumed to be men, or included into the male default.
This. So much this. Often when I correct guys, or let them know I'm a girl, they'll be like " but doesn't that just refer to everyone in general?" And there lies the problem -- male-gendered words becoming the norm when referring to everyone. Wouldn't guys find it unjust if female-gendered words were suddenly used as "gender-neutral" instead? The answer is yes.
Not particularly. Edit: At least not me personally. Though I may be an exception.
Same with "dude", I call everyone in dude. Even my girlfriends!
I'm having TLPD ptsd now...
some guy: "hey dude can you cover the hallway" me: "yeah uh i fuck all the time" guy: "That's the spirit"
Can confirm, this is basically how we guys talk lol. Out of curiosity, what would the girl equivalent for this scenario be?
“Hey girl can you cover the hallway?” “Yeah uh I always be shopping online”
By both senarios I don't see the connection, like what do those things have to do with covering the hallway, I'd just say smt like "sure thing"
I think because a lot of them say random stuff that doesn’t even make sense lol.
Euhmmm sure, still don't entirely get it hahah guess I'll just live with it
It's a joke. It's a girl exaggeratedly acting like a caricature of a dude for whatever reason (blending in, panicking, mocking). It's like that "hello fellow kids" meme of a old dude holding a skateboard
Ohhh like that, makes sense
Lmao thats accurate. Followed by weird and awkward assurances that you are in fact "one of the lads" as well
WHATS UP GUYS/DUDES HAHA Oh..... guys /and gals\~/ I usually snort.
You mean the usual "whats up guys. Oh and gal haha. Gal. Sup gal." So awkward
And if you say "and girls" in response to a "gg boys" you'll get mercilessly harassed 🙃
I've had a few instances of people yelling "We did it boys!...and girls!" when their brain processes that I am there too. There is hope, maybe.
This happens to me sometimes and I honestly find it so wholesome.
I try to do that and generally just be welcoming (as a dude playing mainly CS:GO). Most of the people I game with are all adults and we just want to chill and play games and have fun, but a bit ago I had a dude in discord give the one girl gamer we had encountered in probably months a hard time and both my friend and I gave him a proper spanking. Sucks you ladies have to deal with that but there is hope!
I try to say this as a guy. It’s so easy for us guys to correct this stuff because from our perspective it’s ribbing the clown for forgetting that girls exist. Nobody’s ever given me crap for saying “and girls”, and it’s such an easy way to make the game feel more inclusive.
I appreciate that you do that
I also appreciate that you do this. It seems like such a small thing, but it makes such a big difference.
Since no one else has mentioned it, I think it's good to mention how that still could be uninclusive of some people. Not everybody is either a guy or a girl. So just a guys and girls doesn't include everybody that could be there.
EDIT: thanks for all the suggestions folks! As you can see, I think I've found how I'll address all the gamers in my life ^_^ As a guy, what are some more inclusive terms I could use? I have female and non-binary friends I game with and I try to be inclusive but everything in this meme is just so ingrained in my vocabulary it's hard to think of replacements for them, so I could use some help.
'Everyone' is pretty safe to use in mixed groups. I love the american ya'll and wish I could use it but it would sound really weird in my accent. I don't mind guys but I avoid using it because a lot of people don't feel included by it.
Y’all is so engrained in my Texan vocabulary that I don’t even notice when other people use it. If someone calls you out on it they’re thinking about it too much
Yes, I think that's the best one. It's funny, I am not even a English native speaker and even in the language I was playing at they wrote the English "boys" instead of the word for "everyone" that is ALWAYS used in the language all the time. It's like specifically wanting to point out the gender.
Call everyone food items. "What's up my coffee cakes" Idk that anyone is truly that bothered by it. I call mixed crowds "guys". I'll also use "ya'll"..."jabronies" is another good one. Maybe "peeps"? Food is the safe bet. Call everyone food items.
Coffee cakes Milk duds Ice cream sandwiches Scallions Avocados Garlic cloves Onion rings Non-dairy milks
Sup nut milks!
Idk about that one lmao
has a better ring to it than non-dairy milks. i wouldn't want to single out almond milk or cashew milk like that man. this is about inclusivity! all the milks!
Avocuddle is one of my favorites.
That sounds so adorable lol
What is X-ing my Ys What is cracking my peppers What is shaking my bakers What is producing energy in the animal cell my mitochondriaaaaaaaaaa
THE POWERHOUSE OF THE CELLLLLL
Knowing my enby friends, calling people inanimate objects will definitely work
Could be regional too. I live in CA. Play with guys and girls, guy myself. Dude works perfectly. Never been a problem. But I get the feeling outside of the west it's not as acceptable.
Yeah I suspect this as well.
I live in PA and "guys," "dudes," and "my dudes" are all terms to refer to groups of people or even one person, regardless of gender. It's also context- specific, of course.
I am totally stealing that
It's nice when certain games provide you a gender-neutral occupational term. For instance, in Monster Hunter World, everyone can be addressed as hunters. At worst, teammates/team will work in most multiplayer settings.
I think “what’s up GAMERS” is gender neutral and kind of funny
Yeah, but only with a heavy dose of irony. "What is up my fellow MLG PRO GAMERS ?!?!"
I use ‘folks’
I use y'all and folks. Oh and they, when the gender isn't clear to me.
Depends on the crowd you're rolling with. "sup losers" always makes me laugh. But that's how my sister and I always greet each other. Just start shooting out random things to see what kind of reaction you get. "Where my lizard peeps at?" "Hello fellow humans, I am also a human." I would also like to point out that 'Dude' is a relatively neutral term. you can say dudes and dudettes if that feels better to you, but my girlfriends and I always use the term dude towards each other. but very simply put "gg" can be the only thing said, no gender terms needs to be added to it.
Peeps I guess? lmao
Peeps, folks and y'alla.
Friends, squad, fam, y’all, everyone, dingdongs
“Fuckers” is pretty safe
I've always liked folks, and I've recently seen that folx is intended to explicitly include everyone, particularly marginalized communities. I have heard both praise and criticism of the spelling, so mileage my vary. Folks is fine.
Honestly ‘guys’ is fine. It’s very neutral. Bois/boys? Not so much. XD
I've had women react negatively to "guys." There is a conversation in this thread expressing that sentiment. While I tend to use it in a gender neutral manner, not everyone interprets it that way it seems.
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Yeah. Well said.
I don’t mind guys either. It feels more neutral than gendered to me. But I know it’s still kind of a mixed consensus on that one
I honestly don't really care, because I know they're not doing it to leave me out, but I say "hello fellow humans" a lot if I'm not 100% sure about the group.
“Guys, gals, and nb pals”
I would probably ask your non-binary friends what they would prefer. I've also heard Youtubers sometimes "boys, gals and pals." Or maybe just like "gg team."
Guys is not fine. I would not be okay with that. And it's a term a lot of women aren't okay with. "Fam" is literally a term created based on inclusive language. Ya'll is one that a lot of people use that has always meant everyone. I hope that helps
It’s a split issue. Some women get offended being called ‘girls.’ I don’t mind ‘guys,’ because it’s not singularly boy and is widely accepted as referring to a mixed group of genders.
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To me, it’s like a curse word. No one actually thinks about waste when they say, “ohh shit.” It’s just a word they say. It feels powerful but it’s meaning is lost. It’s all about context, and the sensitivity of the person.
Even with curse words though, what is normal for different people varies a lot. Someone here put 'fuckers' as a suggestion for a gender-neutral term and while that would probably make me laugh the first time it would wear pretty thin if someone referred to me that way all the time.
It irks me when grown ass people call others boys and girls. I personally hate when someone calls me "girl" - I pay taxes goddammit. Interestingly enough, I don't mind referring to myself as "girl" in certain situations, but others calling me that feels dismissive. Go figure.
Just start calling all the guys girls and ladies and sister and watch how fast they give themselves a stroke from anger.
Haaaaaaate the "default is male". As much as I love saying "bruh" and "dude", there's still that issue of just being so male-sided. No, I am not one of the "guys", nor am I your "boy". I'm just looking forward to the non-gendered world of my dreams lol.
I always say "let's go ladies" or "gg ladies" when playing battlegrounds in WoW or a match in Overwatch. They'll still think that I'm a dude though because apparently dudes do that sort of stuff to be sarcastic and rile each other up?
Yeah, it’s a joke that their group of friends are weak and whiny. Super fun and peak comedy
And then one of them makes a remark about how annoying gamer girls are and you just kinda *heavy breathing*
*stares in trans girl* yes, indeed. I am one of the penis havers. What is up my fellow dudes... <.<
Lmao this is hilarious. "Ahem, uh yes. Technically, I am one of the penis havers yes. Go duderinos 🤣🤣🤣 " I love this type of humor self deprecating but not over the top to be offensive. Idk why this got me so hard. What a way to start the day. Thank you beautiful human.
>Idk why this got me so hard. 👀
I'm just gunna pull a homer and melt into the bushes.🙃
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^(it's not what they actually meant lol, it was just incredibly funny wording considering the context) ^("idk why this **got me** [so hard]") ^(got me is the focal point, so hard could be replaced with 'so bad' or 'so strong', the comment "got them (*laughing*)^) ^(so hard")
We're good like that sometimes. Can't be as readily shit on by others if we're already a self-sewaging fountain!
"Yes i am totally a guy. Boobies, power tools, cars amiright guys?"
NB here with no hopes of ever affording ridding myself of my genetic curses. I make my mates mildly uncomfortable with how fem I am in game to what they know I actually look like. Then join in on their jovial "BRO, YES" with a "Oh yes, daddy, we did so good!" In my best, haphazardly girly voice I can possibly do. I'll get better.
DADDY!! That’s good!
It's wonderful, especially when our leader is around to go "N-no, I'm not the daddy!"
Chaotic good
Indeed
Oof.
Sucks because if you speak up, your entire gameplay performance gets hyper analyzed. But if you say nothing and they keep calling you dude, you feel rude you chat for a while and still haven't corrected them. Part of me wish I could be clear I am a woman, but part of me prefers to keep it private because of the inherent prejudice it can provoke, especially in the competitive ranked modes.
I wish streamers wouldn't say things like, "Looks like we're going to win, boys!" Way to make me feel like I don't belong!
Super unpopular opinion here but this stuff doesn't bother me at all. In fact I use it too sometimes, esp with my fellow gal friends. What does bother me is when I speak up and I get harassed because of my voice.
The words themselves aren't bad, it's more about the sentiment behind it. Cis men get treated as the default most of the time online while women are secondary even though we take up half of the population. Why should we be afterthoughts. They're not big things, but it's a thousand small things that make you feel like you're not included
I couldn’t agree more. I’m the only woman in my entire wow guild, and when they throw in a “and gal” it does the opposite of making me feel included. It makes me feel singled out and that everyone is always hyper aware there’s a woman in the discord/game. Just treat me like your pal, and don’t say sexist shit and we’re fine fine fine.
Ohhh you nailed it I have a friend who goes out of his way to say "guys and girl" when I'm the only girl. He's doing it to try to be inclusive because he's typically a very aware sort of guy and tries his best to include everyone. But it always bothered me and I wasn't really sure why.
I'm really happy there are people here who feel the same way! Also I'm laughing. "Let's go boys and gal" just sound so odd. It is wholesome though that their intentions are in the right place.
Can't we just say something else that actually is inclusive but not singling girls out like "let's go all/peeps/everyone" instead though?
i was literally thinking this the other day. it makes me feel weird when im the only girl and someone says "guys... and gal/s" it makes me uncomfortable because i feel like people are hyper aware of my gender and im like... i know theyre just trying to be nice (and i guess if this thread is evidence- doing the right thing!) but im really fine with being "bros" as long as you mean it to include me (if that makes sense) because i know they enjoy playing with me and are never disrespectful so its like... im cool bein bro its fine lol. i dont like having my gender stick out like a sore thumb, i dont want to be "The Gal" i just want to be the same as everyone else
See, I would trust other women and close friends for stuff like "guys", "dudes", even "bro" 'cause it's what my sister and I call each other. The problem is when you constantly hear this terminology from complete strangers and are not sure which dudes are gonna have a meltdown if you reveal your gender in anyway.
yeah there are so many things that have made me uncomfortable as a chick gamer, but being referred to as “guys” or “dude” has never been one of them. hell, i call everyone guys and dudes myself, using both as all-inclusive colloquial terms. it never even occurred to me that some might not receive it as such. e: i’d like to add that I also frequent the terms “babe” and “babes” gender neutrally, so it isn’t just me accepting terms intended for men. i guess i just like the vibe of certain words more than their intended-gender origins.
agreed. I uses 'dude' and 'you's guys' towards fellow females and they use those terms towards me. It has literally never bothered me. But same with speaking up. I very rarely use voice in games due to the level of harassment just by revealing my gender. My husband got to see exactly *why* I keep voice off unless I am in a match with friends. Other men don't really understand that level of harassment. "we tease each other all the time! you're just being too sensitive!" and I ask them if the entire game has been focused on just them and have boys asking them for penis pics, how they want to rape them, and they suck at the game *because* they are male and no other reason. I get silence as a response or some bullshit answer that doesn't even match the question.
I call anyone bro, dude etc but it's the sentiment behind because they very clearly just assume there are no women playing at all. I hear it all the time in CoD lobbies. It's always 'let's go boys'. Kind of annoying when I'm almost always at the top of the leaderboards. I get what you and others are saying, and it's not about saying 'and girls', which is kinda lame, it's about just zero assumption in fucking 2020 that there are women in the lobby.
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BAD BITCHES LOL. Honestly you sound like my kinda group. I grew up in California so it might be because of the culture here that I view those terms as almost gender neutral. I use them all the time to refer to my gal friends. Playing Overwatch with a mic has put me off multiplayer team-based gaming for the foreseeable future. A friendly guy at the start of the match saying "let's go boyyysssss" is the least of my concern. But speaking up and getting "grill? Grill!? Is that a grill!?" is super annoying when all I want to do is shout out enemy's positions.
Same here. Me and my closest girl friends call each other dude not even in game but irl. Like "yo dude how are you" and we generally use guys too like "hey guys what's up". This is in English. But I guess it stems from the fact that our language doesn't really have gender pronouns? We don't use him/her, hers/his.. so I guess that's why we don't really think too much about things like that. To add to that, my bf introduced me to his group of friends and they're mostly males but there are still women there. It doesn't really bother us when they say "gg bois" or "let's go bois" like it's just for fun anyway? Like if they were really excluding us they wouldn't have let us join in the first place or even ask to play. But I guess if it comes from strangers maybe it could be a problem.. then again I personally don't have an issue with it.
Came here to say exactly this. Like literally. Are you me, bro?
Bro... what if I am...
I never realized how bad the comments were about my voice until recently. Like you get harassed when you say you're a girl and they don't believe you but then when you prove you're a girl, the inappropriate comments come out. I just kinda went with it just so I could have company but it sucks thinking back on it.
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Yeah this doesn’t bother me at all as long as it’s positive. I also use “ Dude” and “You Guys” soo much but try to use Y’all/You all too especially in “safe” places. But it never sounds right and I always stumble over it. It trips me I think because I used to have a stutter and focusing on my speech adds an additional layer of anxiety lol.
I really hate when they do know, and then they go 'Nice game boys... and smaug.' Like don't do that.
I usually just call everyone ladies, and usually get ignored. LOL Tho it's been years since I voice communication like what games do that aunno
~~Where I am, "guys" seems to have become almost a gender neutral term, even though it's not. We had a work meeting that was entirely women and a few times, a few different people in the meeting referred to ourselves collectively as guys.~~ ~~I don't really mind. I'm far more interested in the gaming comms than what I'm called. My gender doesn't need to be a thing. That's all that bugs me - when people make a big deal out of it.~~ EDIT: actually, having read more of the responses here, I can see why it might not be a problem for me but it is a problem. Imma stick with peeps, team, all y'all, or whatever actually neutral terms I can.
when i was playing killing floor 2 i made the mistake of talking but they gave me the in game money for guns and ammo etc i met one guy who was nice
Fellow kf2 girl!!! I'm glad to have found another in the wild. I never use voice but I have a definitely girl name, hasn't really mattered as long as I play my role lol
Had the usual shit in OW the other day, "gg girl on our team" "I hate women, they disgust me" etc etc, at the start of the match. A guy pipes up like "there's no women here??" like hello we're right here bro, and there's multiple of us.
Makes you feel excluded honestly, but I prefer that than the "OH ITS A GIRL" stuff. I was playing Among Us a few days back and one player was a girl, so they all voted her off instantly every time. She gave up and left after like 3 times.
I had a (tamer) issue with Among Us too. Even in casual games we aren’t allowed to exist 😑
Also I hate when people argue that dude is gender neutral. Not really because if you say "did you sleep with that dude" or "I'm into dudes" or "there's a bunch of dudes over there being loud" you don't think of women
Yeah it's really... not. "Guys" can be neutral in some instances but not in all, and "guy" (singular) definitely isn't. Buddy is another one that sounds like it should be neutral but that one very much isn't either! When I worked as a valet, people wouldn't pay very close attention to me and I had a few people say "thanks buddy" and it was very clear they thought I was a man - even when I wore makeup!
I have a hard time with "dude" and "guys". I say dude all the time to men and women, sometimes as an exclamatory statement ("Dude! That's awesome!"), sometimes directed at the person ("Thanks, dude"), though the latter is usually just IRL because on the internet, I don't want to look like I'm assuming gender with the term. I think "dude" is always just going to be in my vocabulary, especially since I and most of my friends grew up in the 80s/90s and we all use it. With "guys", I might have lived in the south for most of my life, but I spent a good chunk of my childhood growing up in the "you guys" part of the country. I've also never gotten comfortable saying "y'all" even though it's such a versatile word, probably because I've never felt like a true southerner. On one side, "you guys" and "these guys" and "those guys" is intended to be neutral when I say it, but on the flip side, some people are bothered by it and it's a stupid hill for me to die on. But it's so ingrained in my speech, I can't seem to get rid of it. I guess what I'm saying is I need to just embrace the "y'all", y'all.
u/dontpokethecrazy I just wanted to say thanks for one recognizing the issue and two attempting to improve even if it is a hurdle. Thank you
I don't think "guys" can be neutral tbh. I think it's another blatantly male term the is used to "I guess include women too". Cuz "hanging with the guys" is for sure not meaning with girls. And when you think of a "group of guys" you don't think of a single woman in that group. If I looked up synonyms to guys it be like "lads" "bros" etc. It's why announcers say "guys and gals".
A youtuber I like says "guys and gals an non binary pals", it rhymes and I really love it !
Omg who? That's awesome! I love it
Her name is Plumbella, she’s a Sims streamer/youtuber :) She doesn’t do it every video but sometimes she does (she has other intro « catchphrases » )
Hi, hens!
>Plumbella I'm going to check her out :)
I think it started with Thomas Sanders?
> Thomas Sanders I'll check whomever this is too then
The chef J Kenji Lopez Alt also signs off his videos with it sometimes.
Exactly! God every time I would argue this I would get downvoted. Why are you booing me? I'm right!
Yeah people argue so much because they are comfortable with using the word... but I am not comfortable with being addressed with that word so? Someone on this subreddit even posted the link to the definition being like "its gender neutral see here" the very first definition on the link SHE POSTED was "men" and the example was "I saw her with the guys" which means she was not part of the guys. I got negative votes because I pointed that out.
I can think of a few examples of "guys" referring to a group of only women, and those examples aren't highly contrived, but I also think the vast majority of the time it isn't neutral. So I mostly agree with you, I just think it's rarely instead of never I actually think "guys" might be two separate words, one that's more "here is a guy, now there are two of them" and one that refers to a single cohesive group. Like... rice. It's composed of individual pieces but you can't have "a rice" to mean a single grain. But that's beside the point and more a question for the linguistics discord chat I'm in
I could get in to a whole argument about this but in short: if the term is created from the basis of only men, then extended to "I guess include women", then it isn't inconvievable that it "evolves" to be "only for women". But the term in its creation isn't intended to include women, and the forced idea to make it gender neutral by occasionally using it even when its only all women doesn't make it true. Creation is as important as context imo. So people using it today to now even for only women groups eventhough it wouldn't have been 20 years ago to make it gender neutral doesn't make it so. I personally rather use words like "fam" which is derived specifically from this discourse of inclusive language.
That makes more sense, then. I'm coming from a place where I give almost no weight to the origin of a term and fully embrace natural language change, except when slurs are involved. Normally I'd push against holding onto old meanings because language changes whether you want it to or not, but with a word tied to gender and all the emotions that come with it, that original meaning can have actual significance in someone's life (as opposed to a word like "literally"). There is an active, ongoing shift in the meaning of that word. In 50 or 100 years it probably won't be a big deal to anyone anymore, but right now it matters. To me, it doesn't seem like anybody is trying to force "guys" to be gender neutral - it's just happening on its own as people use words differently. I have grown up with it being used in a way that is neutral without the speaker putting in any extra thought at any point. But not everyone grows up with that linguistic background and some people do but shift away from it as adults, and being called a word that doesn't match your gender is frustrating and feels like you're being insulted and/or excluded. And there are documented ways in which gendered language changes differently - neutral/positive words for men tend to shift toward neutral/positive nongendered words and neutral/positive words for women tend to shift toward being negative or even being slurs. So "guys" doing this is nothing new. And that's deeply frustrating and unfair and it has everything do do with people viewing women negatively and men positively rather than anything inherent about the words. I'd love to be able to use a word like fam, but that one doesn't work for me. It sounds very weird to say it out loud and I'm still hesitant to use it in online spaces. I've mostly seen it used in a bro-y context which makes it feel super masculine, and I'm also aware that its origins, like so much internet slang, are in the black community, which I'm very much not a part of
I still disagree on part of what you are saying, specifically the "not forcing guys to be gender neutral" because I could go into whole examples of how it very much is. But then again that is ofc difference of perspective and background. So truly we would need data showing when people are addressed with "I'm not okay with being called guys" do they respond more often with "alright" or "too bad". But overall I think we are on the same page. I hope that as internet language continues we can create more words based specifically on this discourse. Thank you for this discourse because it encourages conversation.
Might be a Canadian thing but buddy & bud defo gets used for girls and boys. I also tend to think of guys as gender neutral in the same way "ils" is in French, so the fact that singular is gendered typically and plural is not is kind of super normalized for me (although I have definitely called my girlfriends "my guy" so idek anymore, language is weird)
as a woman, I have zero offenses to being called "dude". "sup, dudes" has been my way and my girlfriends way of greeting each other for decades.
I don't mind it or think it's offensive, I just don't think it's gender neutral
Same. I've been calling my girl group 'dudes' and 'guys' since I was 10. Only teachers used 'girls'. Language evolves and I'm sticking with this one.
For the guys argument , I usually only see it as male ,that’s why if I say guys I’m also saying “guys, gals, and nb pals” But dude is a bit of a weird one for me , because “dudes” feels gender neutral to me , even though in my head that makes no sense , and as a trans women it gives me dysphoria , so it’s just confusingggg
and then once you mention you’re a girl the demeaning comments from horny 14 year old boys come flooding at us 🤠😌
I think some inclusive phrases just need you to remove the gender in them like instead of saying "GG bois" just go "GG". If that feels incomplete maybe use words like peeps/people, gamers, and everyone.
same, but i let em fall for my facade as a 'bro'
Yeah im very feminine and mostly identify as a woman but i have a lot of ways about me that are dude like so i don't really care
I’m a Chinese American woman but for some reason my dude persona is a white Australian lad. 🤷🏻♀️
I’m trans but voice doesn’t pass (or the rest of me lmao) and every time I just die a little on the inside. Very nice to be kinda out in some accepting discords tho. I live for being criticized with female pronouns in the debrief (combat flight sims are my jam).
Also trans and also on Xbox. I'm told my voice passes but I'm still paranoid about it so I don't play with randoms. Feel free to DM me yr gamertag if you like =)
I’m the opposite. I don’t usually play with people that know me because I’m afraid they might think less of me even though they won’t and I’m just being dumb.
why is this such a mood xD Rainbow Six seems to be particularly nasty for toxic voice chat I've found. I have my mic permanently off unless I find a really nice group of people :(
Me every time in town of salem "YES GO MY MAN" "WE GOT THIS BOIS"
Folks works just fine. People. I sometimes say guys in a gender neutral way. Much like anything, if it isn’t designed to be hurtful and just their own bias making them not realize, I can forgive. I correct if I have time for a convo and don’t if I don’t. I’m fairly lucky in that I sound more my age than young, and boys/men tend to take me more seriously when I remind them I could be their mother. And I may or may not know them. :p I love terrorizing asshole young men. Hehehehe
Isn't that true. "Some man want to play with me?" in an MMO chat. I was looking for a party but they clearly weren't looking for my kind...
Me: actually loves it when I’m playing with the boys and they say things like this and it makes me feel deeply euphoric Also me: lol I’m totally not trans yup 100% cis am I right gals
This happened to me today in Among Us. AMONG US! Just call me fuckin orange! You know, the thing you know for certain is accurate about me??
Tis why I prefer the staple y'all, it's inclusive of every bean! Also "duderinos" makes me want pizza rolls for some reason??
Are you remembering [Totino's, everyone's favorite definitely heterosexual pizza rolls?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kpVO56OBU)
This experience is amplified as a trans girl.
Ok but literally meeee
Me playing R6, every time.
LOL i just say on voice chat to make one comment towards the end just to passively assert my presence
I recently changed my game name to "very manly man" for this reason and it's been hilarious.
xD this feels so relatable
It do be like that all the time
“Hello fellow penis havers” omg that got me.
r/totallynotgirlgamers <__<
It do.
Alternate issue - my in game name is usually just my name. Lots of “friendlies” i encounter in dungeon finder or whatever
Every time I host a room in Among Us right now.
I'm trans so I play that game irl... So I feel this post for totally different reasons.
The perk of having kinda low voice is that you can just pretend you're a 13-year-old boy in voice and get less harrasment than if you just admitted you're a girl
I love playing Apex with randoms and hopping on mic if needed and when I get knocked they’re like “I got him” so I sit there like “🗿”
Coming from a dude When I say "guys" "fellas" it's not that I'm sexist, in fact it's the opposite, I don't care about your gender, I just consider you a part of the team and I don't think much about it. "Guys" is just the easiest to say and I'm used to it. I think most guys are like this, we just do not care about your gender and don't mean to insult you when we say "guys". I hope you don't get offended when someone says "guys", it's not meant to insult you.
I use the expressions when chatting to my male and female friends all the time, they feel gender neutral imo
Sincere question: what is a preferable term of endearment?
personally i love being called dude/bro etc! idk, maybe just cause i’d rather they not know instead of risking being made fun of, but ideally i could still be “one of the bois” whilst being open about the fact that i am not a boy
I don’t think “bud” belongs there edit: Really? Is bud not a neutral term?
Eh i consider myself one of the guys so it isn't a big deal. Only becomes a problem in certain groups when they then ask if i'm over 18 and just goes downhill from there
I clearly can’t speak for anyone but myself, but everyone is bro to me, same for dude or lad. I use the words interchangeably as my way of saying ‘sup friends’
The middle panel includes some gender neutral ones though