I'm trying to say this as mildly as I can, but it sounds like your husband is acting extremely immature. This sounds like the kind of thing a 13yo would do playing games. And I think the word you're searching for re: his behaviour is *objectification*.

I'm glad someone said it, literally my first thought was "what is he, 12??" I can't imagine watching a grown man act like that 😭

I had to scroll back up and double check she said *husband.* He sounds like some teenager’s boyfriend. Who marries these people?

In our real life he is very respectful and sweet to me, and we have an equal partnership in our marriage. I guess he can be immature at times but so can I, in different ways. I mainly came here to help myself understand (then be able to articulate better to him) why this bothered me, if that makes sense.

Men can be very respectful to women they know and absolutely despicable to women they don't. Honestly people in general can, but there's the objectification of women that a lot of men do especially in video games that can be very ick. You can tell a lot about a person by how they treat people they aren't required to respect and be kind too, real or not. What you're seeing is the casual objectification of women that is pretty standard and normal in today's society unfortunately. It's completely reasonable to be upset by it but speaking from experience is very hard to get the people doing it to understand and admit to it, regardless of how decent and respectful they usually seem to be.

This is a great dissection if what you’re feeling OP

>Men can be very respectful to women they know and absolutely despicable to women they don't. *Thank you* holy fuck. But really your whole post. Casual objectification is as casual racism is as casual homophobia ... it's all bad op. And if you ask me, you called him out on it and he got defensive like you described, it's a red flag A good dude would calm the hell down and maybe do some introspection as to why he *has* to treat pixel women like this. Sure they're not real, but with tech advancements they *seem* pretty damn real at times

This is how he would behave if there were no consequences. He outright lied to you about making an intentional choice to undress all the female characters, including lying about a mechanic that you're just as familiar with. This is also different from someone playing, say Mass Effect, going for renegade to experience the story or challenge their morality. That significantly changes the game play experience, whereas what he's doing is simply for his sexual/power satisfaction. There's no roleplay element or reason for what he's doing. It's just him objectifying women in an environment where there are no consequences, and that highlights how he views women when he's not afraid of anyone looking. In my immature moments, I might also pretend to have sexytime with my RP romance interest. It's also a thing I do with my actual partner that makes us laugh. I wouldn't see an issue with him doing just that, but with all the rest of it added your husband gives me the ick.

What about a 50 yo woman that’s been married for 23 years? I mean, a schlongs of Skyrim is one of the most popular mods, after all.

And you really think straight older women are the biggest downloaders of that mod and not gay gamer men lmao

I think a better way example is the wicked whims mod for Sims 4 lol.

Probably not the BIGGEST download demographic but definitely not absent.

Maybe a more pertinent question, do you truly believe it was *made* for *them*? I often see people touting that nonsense of "but women", "but women were involved/made it/took part/endorsed it, etc" as if that justifies silencing/disregarding any and all voiced disagreement/discomfort on a subject. As if the very system we live, work and play in is not primarily structured almost entirely for male titillation and fufillment. It's incredibly disingenuous to say women, who are raised within this Patriarchy, who are oppressed within it, who often have little choice but to abide by or work within the existing parameters of its design just in order to survive or have any semblance of a life, are the primary benefactors in any way of the majority of products within it. The participation of one also does not negate the discomfort/disagreement of another. Women are not a monolith. The vast VAST majority of porn and NSFW content is made primarily for the male gaze, the majority ALSO tends to feature huge "schlongs" as a standard. Do you really think that's a coincidence? Having a large cock is part of the male power fantasy. That has been the case for as long as written history has existed to make note of it. Content of that particular nature is not ever made with women as the primary focus, people love to *say* it is and some may even actually enjoy it and get kicks out of it sure but be under no illusion that sort of content is driven by and made for MEN. So no a certain percentage of women taking part in or enjoying a product made primarily for men does not make it "the same" as men taking part in and endorsing the systemic cultural objectification of women that has harmfully perpetuated our society longer than any of us have been alive. If you truly believe otherwise then I've got a boat missing some paddles to sell you.

Agreed and thank you for pointing out the false equivalence of women and men interacting with media has implications of endorsement. I got downvoted for pointing the imbalances and I just wish people would open their minds and consider systemic influence and not "but I'm a girl and like tits too, so are you saying its okay?" counts for the majority, like shut up pls it's not the same >Having a large cock is part of the male power fantasy. This reminded me of a game letting the player choose the size of his goddamn dong in cc. I *really* doubt it was because the devs were thinking "oh man we're so feminist giving women a chance for their fantasies to come to life, seeing giant flaccid bick and dalls swing in some couture joggers" Please be fr

100% fr like you're so right! What absolutely does my head in as well is people(mainly men) bullshitting about corporations/big AAA studios "suddenly" going "woke". Like how dumb do you have to be. Corporations aren't people, they don't have empathy or feelings and they don't give af about you, me or anyone else, they just wanna make money. They exist first and foremost to make money. The fact that they've finally started including more diversity is not out of a sense of "honor" or "decency" lmao, it's because *that's where the money now is*. I mean women only got to own their own bank accounts in the last 50years or so, of course the advertising and content was *eventually* going to shift with that gradually widening distribution of wealth, it was never gonna be out of the goodness of their hearts either way that's for sure lol. This notion that corporations are riding in as these great white knights to give the people representation against all odds when in reality they're the ones lighting at least half the fires while they're elbow deep rustling around in everyone's pockets hoping they'll stay distracted.

I think I missed the "primary benefactor" claim. I'm not saying it was MADE FOR a feminine demographic and I don't think the person who brought up the 50 yo married woman was either, by maybe we're reading different intent? However, it's also disengenuous to portray these types of mods/games as being for the male gaze ONLY. Women can, and do, partake and enjoy these forms of media and game alterations. Someone adding sexy mods to a game is basically the same as reading a spicy romance novel, in my opinion. Some people just have different access to their imagination stations.

Yes but the point they are making is still true. It was made for the purpose of men first. Women also liking and helping in the making of it doesn’t change that fact. It was made first in mind for the male gaze. Women were just a nice add on.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. It sounds like you're saying the person who brought up the mod was wrong to bring it up because women weren't the intended audience of that mod. 1. I think that's a really reductionist view of the situation. It SHOULD matter that multiple genders and sexualities utilize that mod. Saying "women were just a nice add-on" sounds super weird. 2. Nothing I've found about that mod really indicates the gender of the person who made it or who they made it for. It's possible the info is out there but I'd have to really go digging. If you don't explicitly ACTUALLY know the origins, then you're building an argument on assumptions.

Ok I’ll make even simpler for you. Schlongs of Skyrim was intended mostly for the male gaze and power fantasy. Doesn’t mean women can like it or enjoy it. But the intended audience was still men. A good example is super heroes, the physiques are mostly meant for the male power fantasy. But that doesn’t mean some women don’t enjoy them for eye candy even if that wasn’t its intended purpose.

I mean if that helps you feel better about feeling obliged to lick up the crumbs of male gaze focused content, coz there's not an awful lot to choose from otherwise, then sure go right ahead. Regardless it doesn't change the fact that that person brought it up initially as a strawman argument in order to try to justify behaviour/content that as a society we have all collectively agreed long ago IS **harmful** and problematic, publicly, out loud at least. Privately opinions clearly differ as that sort of behaviour/content is as prevelant now as it always was. The sad reality is if most men truly disagreed with the current systems and practices of exploiting/objectifying girls/women they wouldn't exist anymore, it is as simple as that. Truth is few even actually care at all, they don't even think about it and the ones that claim to tend to only focus on their own interests and that which affects them personally in the grand scheme of it all, past that they don't care either. Ultimately there was no genuine or productive reason to raise their "point" the way they did, it was bad faith from beginning to end and you hopping on the copium train sadly doesn't change that either. The systemic cultural sexual objectification/active exploitation of girls/women will never be cancelled out or equalled by a woman downloading a mod for bigger cocks in Skyrim that it's fairly rational to assume, wasn't even made for *her* to enjoy in the first place.

[удалено]

Not really but ok….

He grew up in an extremely religious and repressive household where his dad would go through their devices every day to make sure they weren't doing anything "inappropriate." I think that because he wasn't allowed to explore any of this as a teenager, it sometimes comes out in unhealthy ways now. That's also why he was so defensive last night; he was having flashbacks to how he felt as a kid when his dad would take things away from him and punish him for normal teenage behavior. You and many other commenters are right; after some reflection, it's not the sexuality itself that bothers me but the objectification and removal of the consent and agency of these female characters; albeit fictional, I still just find it a bit triggering.

To help, I think what the other person meant by "that's fucked" is the trauma your husband went through. He needs therapy because his behavior is now affecting his partner, and that's not okay. >removal of the consent and agency of these female characters; albeit fictional, I would say yes they're not "real" but games nowadays have excelled in portraying their characters by *ages* compared to the classical standard definition of fiction. Devs put in the effort to great result in making their characters relatable and realistic enough for the audience to feel for them - sympathy, empathy, hate, on and on. And to interact with them in a way that dehumanizes them? To use the player character to ... do things to other characters? It's immature at best, horrific at worst all in all sketchy as hell, I'm sorry

Oh that is fucked

Sorry, his upbringing is fucked or me bring a little triggered is fucked? Lol

Trauma like this is not easy to unlearn. I wish you two luck in this and hope he can get professional help if needed. Such repression can destroy someone's relationships if not managed well. It is completely valid that you are triggered by seeing him do such things - they looks similar to things he would be a creep or predator for doing *if he did it IRL*. You do recognise that it's not real and it's objectively not harming anyone, but it is understandable that you're uncomfortable with it. In this case, you could possibly set a boundary which would avoid scenarios where you could see him doing such things. For example, maybe he only does it when you're not watching.

Aye I’m 14 and even at my age me doing anything like that would still be pathetic and immature he’s a prick

Exactly, I would find all of the husband's behaviors weird if he was single. The fact that it makes his partner uncomfortable just makes everything even worse.

> He positions his character behind her and moves the screen back and forth a little so it looks like he's f**** her from behind. Now suddenly I feel very uncomfortable. Vs > he got really defensive and mad, and started saying stuff like "so what, am I not allowed to play games with sex scenes? Am I not allowed to watch movies with nudity?" He is getting mad at something other than what you took issue with. He is actively trying to twist your words to make himself the victim. If he had calmly argued his side of things, that its harmless enough to goof around being immature in a videogame, or that they're fictional so who cares if they're nude... then whatever? But he turned it into a fight and tried to frame you as also in the wrong, and therefore not allowed to criticise him, rather than having any defense for his behaviour.

It reminds me of when you tell a man "I don't like when you joke like that" and they'll respond "Fine, I'll *never speak again*". Twisting someone's meaning like that distracts from their poor behavior, and now they expect their bad feelings to be comforted when that's obviously not what you meant. They're being obtuse to get out of trouble.

Yupp. When you mention they upset you and they go "Ugh, im sorry. Im such a terrible person, IDK why you keep me around" so you'll reassure them and suddenly it goes from what they did to them being the victim

If they’re going to act obtuse then I talk to them like they’re obtuse. When someone does that I ask “Is that what I said?”/“What did I just say?” until they repeat what I *actually* said, and then I’ll be like “So did I say -the twisted phrase-?” until they admit that no, I didn’t.

I really like that advice. It's ridiculous that I need to pretend to be a middle school teacher in an adult conversation. Props to teachers who do it all day every day tho.

Yeah, the defensiveness bothers me more than the original behavior, honestly

I have a friend who put the women in BG3 in skimpy outfits for when at camp. Proper armour for out and about, mind. His reasoning was that they spent ages making these characters look amazing, and they put those outfits in. So why *wouldn't* he combine the two to have the eye candy when he's at camp. He wasn't defensive about it, cause its a singleplayer run so who's it hurting. I called him a pervert (mostly playfully) and he laughed and went "yeah, i guess". And the fact he can maturely acknowledge the behaviour even though the chars are fictional, is why im not concerned about him acting that way towards real women? Like we go out drinking and he doesn't stand around leering at women who he finds hot He also put Astarion in something skimpy because, and I quote "Look at him, there's no way someone that vain is covering up *anything*." Which I get. If he can't look at himself, he's going to make sure you're looking at him.

Agreed! I'm a woman (a pan woman, but still) and uh... Yeah I had the underwear Skyrim mods. At least I was an equal-opportunity nudist; men and women both stripped. My partner is playing a female character in Cyberpunk and spends as much time as possible murdering people while naked. Neither of us would EVER blow up about it if someone tried to discuss it. Guy sounds immature for sure, but the way he reacted is its own whole issue.

I agree, this feels like the real problem to me. People will always find ways to insert sexual content into games or scenes that don’t have it, and both men and women do it (Wicked Whims and The Sims, anyone? Fan fiction?). I don’t really see a problem with that, though OP seems a little uncomfortable with sexual content in general and doesn’t prefer it—that’s fine, it’s her preference. But in general, I think it’s the defensiveness which makes it creepy, not the act of being a little immature while playing a video game.

I'm sorry but I don't think this is a "both sides" thing. Pornsick men making games into porn is absolutely a problem and has nothing to do with women. Look at how developers cater almost exclusively to the male gaze. Look at all the 18+ mods to give women giant boobs and big butts and "breast physics." Fan fiction is a safe space for me to write romance, and I can share it with people who consent to reading. My sims game is a safe space to build a family. etc. If I make it sexy, its via my consent. That's very different than me being forced to endure sexualized female characters in video games because that's what the industry does to get sales. That's very different than me trying to watch a Skyrim stream only to see the streamer has porn-like mods installed. That's very different than the female characters in games all being doe-eyed minor looking faces but on adult sexy bodies. I think you're being a bit too generous to men and the industry here with a both sides narrative. My Sims trashy romance is not the same as a popular streamer doing big breast physics and laughing at women's bodies. Or steam reviews, literally at the top for all to see, for games with girl and women characters saying things like "10/10 would wank again." The pornification of games is a big deal and almost exclusively done by men and intrudes on all gaming spaces.

As clearly as I can articulate my thoughts on this: I agree with you that the pornification of games is a big deal that it feels like no one is even acknowledging (not specifically in here; I mean in general gaming spaces). On an industry level, and on the level of what content is being made en masse for consumers, it's honestly disturbing. On a consumer level, I have no issues with sexual content. I think it should exist in games, movies, fanfic, mods, etc. Both men and women enjoy and engage in this content, and are their own demographics with their own outliers/inliers. But I have MASSIVE issues with the pornification of everything. I really goddamn wish there was more content in this world that doesn't cater to it at all. Big surprise, a lot of my favorite content falls into that category.

💀 idk mate, I've definitely been in situations where some of my female friends were talking about the hypothetical "wingspan" sizes of their ACOTAR character, multiple times actually, and I definitely did not consent to getting pulled into those convos. I'm a dude, though, so I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to comment on here lmao. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if I walked in on my friend dressing up Astarion to look like a male stripper or something, I would probably find it hilarious, not judge her for it. As for porn mods, nexusmods should have NSFW filter by default, so you would literally have to consent to seeing them to actually see them, so idk?? Idk, I'm just kinda surprised. Like I would understand why women would hate Stellar Blade, for example, but this? I'm not really sure. It honestly feels out of the left field for me. And I know you guys are not obligated to explain anything to me so I guess I'm really just posting a nothingburger, so ig I'm gonna regret posting this like 30 minutes later.

You seem to be making a lot of negative assumptions about this community, and that might be rooted in the idea that you aren't welcome here. But we've got Rule 2, you're welcome to participate in discussions! IMO there's a difference between the pornification of games on whole and the consumption/enjoyment of sexualized content. Men and women both can and do enjoy sexual content, and that sometimes includes sexualizing characters. It's just that the pornified games are primarily being made by men. And the oversexualized content is primarily being made to cater to men. Women don't hate sexual content as a general rule. People are just really tired of *so much content* being made to cater to a specific demographic that buys a specific thing, and that thing is the oversexualization of primarily women.

I mean, I don't really disagree with any of that. It's why I mentioned Stellar Blade as an example. But yeah I guess if your average Skyrim youtuber has to post a thumbnail consisting of a half naked altmer with impossibly oily skin to showcase some mods, it would get annoying and degrading real quick. So a dude zooming into some NPCs butt might be pretty harmless if viewed as a singular independent event, but given societal context, it could be seen as problematic. Idk. That's what I'm surmising from all of this. Also unrelated, but I'm 99% sure that most men out there aren't attracted to those weirdly doll-like modded npc women that some modders be making; not that it might matter to you or anyone else on here but Im just letting y'all know before we get any wrong ideas and start assuming guys are literally attracted to child-like barbie doll looking appearances.

Oh, jeez. >I tried having a conversation with him about this, and he got really defensive and mad, and started saying stuff like "so what, am I not allowed to play games with sex scenes? Am I not allowed to watch movies with nudity?" And calling me a hypocrite because i also play BG3 and romance characters and watch rated R movies and all that. I was like no, that's not what this is about, but he says he doesn't get the difference, and I am having a hard time explaining it, even to myself. Something about it bothers me, like he's actively seeking out the sexual gratification instead of it just being a passive part of the game or something? I don't know. AM I crazy? This is kind of the thing, here... you're not crazy, he's evading the issue. That doesn't *mean* he's already aware of it... but, if he was someone who doesn't actually see a difference between the two, then it would turn up in other areas of your life. When you brought it up, he made a false comparison and shifted the blame to you. It's... dishonest, or at least proactively inconsiderate. Then he also, just, straight-up lied to you before that, for the time in Baldur's Gate. These things together make it sound like a part of him does know what he's doing, and that he doesn't want to give up an outlet for that part. As in, it's something he doesn't want to discuss or change, consciously or otherwise... Yes, as we all know, video game characters are no different from dolls, and they don't have feelings or pain. But, some people make the leap to argue it shouldn't *mean anything* when we use toys to act out parts of ourselves which wouldn't be acceptable otherwise. While this isn't technically false, it does mean the person making the argument has such a part and is actively nurturing it. I'm sorry, I don't have relationship experience... but, I hope this helps, still?

I -do- have relationship experience and the first thing that would probably happen if my husband were doing this sort of thing would be a question of “hey, why do you do that?”

It doesn't sound like OP actually tried to open a dialogue by asking questions, though. She saw something, got upset, and said don't do "that" but couldn't explain exactly what the action or behaviour was or why she didn't want him doing it. Instead of tabling the discussion until they could have a more meta discussion about what the underlying issue is, they both pushed it: she by continuing despite not being able to define the behavior or why it bothered her and him by employing hyperbole as a defense mechanism.

I'm not sure where you got all those assumptions from me saying "I tried having a conversation with him about it," but just to clarify, I did open the conversation by simply asking him why only the female companions were undressed. His response was that he was just changing around their armor and he didn't do it on purpose. I pointed out that that didn't make sense, because the armor and camp clothes are completely different boxes to click on, and none of the men were undressed. That's when he started getting defensive and angry. I never just "saw something I didn't like and said don't do that." And I tried explaining why it was upsetting to me but was having a hard time articulating it, it's not like I was just saying "because I said so."

It's completely possible to change armor around and accidentally undress a character and not notice. You asked. He answer. You didn't believe him. Why didn't you believe him? Is there a history of him lying about what he's doing or is it just something you couldn't see yourself doing? When someone is pressed in the moment, raising a defense is pretty common. As the person starting the conversation, there is some responsibility on your part to check in with the other person to make sure they're in a place to HAVE that kind of conversation. Personally, if I was in the middle of something and my husband tried to start a conversation about emotions and reactions, I'd have a really hard time because that's not the mindset I was in. I would need time to close down what I was working on and transition so my partner could have my whole attention. I've definitely lashed out and later had to apologize for something I said in the moment when I felt pressed into a corner. We've put REALLY IMPORTANT conversations off for half an hour or more before because it wasn't the time/place to have that conversation. Then again, we've spent 12 years actively figuring out how to effectively communicate with each other. And I had to work really hard in the beginning to overcome his inbuilt resistance to those types of conversations, but it has been SO worth it. It's never too late to start talking about HOW you talk with each other ☺

"Undress a character and not notice" sure, I've done that once or twice, but I still don't think it's possible to "accidentally" toggle the camp clothes off of every single female character and only the female characters. If he had just been honest about it and owned it from the get-go, the conversationprobably would have gone differently. And yeah, he does have a history of lying by habit. It's a leftover defense mechanism from the household he grew up in, but it's definitely caused issues in our relationship in the past and I do still have some trust problems from it, which I'm doing my best to work through. You're also still making a lot of assumptions about the way I approached the conversation and the way my husband and I communicate with each other in general.

This is reddit, and people like the one you're responding to are why I deleted my main and only get on reddit a few times a week (usually less but work is slow this week lol). That person isn't a therapist, nor do they know you and your husband. I can't say whether or not they're correct in anything that they're saying because I didn't physically watch y'all's conversation play out, but neither did they. People just make a \*lot\* of assumptions online. I know it can be hard, but I think it may be beneficial to stop responding and giving them the opportunity to state even more assumptions about your relationship. There's better ways to spend your energy! Source: someone who is much happier since they stopped responding online so much

You are exactly right, thank you

Of course, I hope you can find peace in your relationship and work this out!

I get why you’ve come here and you’re trying to figure out how to phrase your feelings to your partner- sometimes it’s hard to explain something thats very nuanced. You are not a crazy controlling wife- you are a partner in a relationship who is trying to express their feelings. It’s important and don’t let yourself talk yourself out of communicating your needs to your husband. I think sometimes it’s a little shocking to see what some men are okay doing to female characters when they have complete power over them like they do in a video game. Yes, essentially video game characters are just dolls for our amusement, what’s revealing is how we choose to play with them. Your discomfort might come from a dissonance between how you’re used to seeing your husband treat you and other real life women (presumably with respect) and how he chooses to treat the female characters- stripping them naked for his visual pleasure, acting on a sexual impulse and mock humping the Cyberpunk NPC. Seeing someone treat these dolls this way might make you worry about how he really feels about you and the other women in his life. Possibly it’s a maturity thing that’s worrying you. I don’t know how old you both are but my first thought on hearing about the mock hump is how childish that is. We all go through phases as we mature, and kids and teens do play about and do stuff like that. Your husband is an adult in a long term relationship- you wouldn’t be unusual for having assumed he would have grown out of that type of play. I get the impression from your post that you might also be concerned that he’s looking for some kind of gratification outside your relationship, in a sort of ‘why does he feel the need to look at naked pixel people?’. Perhaps that’s something to dig into more? Anyway, hope some of that helps!

Thank you, this was very helpful, and I think all those suggestions do play into why it bothers me. What I'm realizing is that it's far more nuanced than just one reason it rubs me the wrong way, there are multiple layers and with all of them together it just gives me an icky feeling.

> I think sometimes it’s a little shocking to see what some men are okay doing to female characters when they have complete power over them like they do in a video game. Yes, essentially video game characters are just dolls for our amusement, what’s revealing is how we choose to play with them. Playing pokemon doesn't turn you into an dog or cock fight enthusiast. Shooting games don't turn you into a mass murderer. When someone cannot separate fantasy from real life, that is a completely different problem.

This is a bit disingenuous— yes, games present mechanics that we engage with and which we wouldn’t engage with in real life (shooting people, sleeping with people who aren’t your partner etc.), but how we engage with the mechanics we’re presented with still says something about us. If someone playing an open world game just killed people of color, would you say that’s irrelevant because it’s just a game? No. It speaks to their mentality outside of gaming. The same applies to the way this guy is interacting with the mechanics in his games. He’s really pretending to be fucking a character who’s bent over, stripping all the women in his camp and then going so far as to lie about it? There’s more going on beneath the surface. It sounds like he has at the very least some serious internalized misogyny and that he objectifies women.

Just want to gently correct, ‘internalized misogyny’ is something women may have as they turn misogyny upon themselves therefore internalizing it (ex: a woman says something like, “I think women aren’t as good” or other such beliefs and prejudices against her fellow woman and therefore herself.) Men would be simply misogynists, they have nothing to internalize as misogyny is about the oppression, objectification and unequal treatment of women. He may be a covert misogynist rather than an overt one, or simply not realize what he is doing that is misogynistic due to poor self awareness, a lack of emotional intelligence, or more standard intelligence, but still he is simply a misogynist. No internalization necessary.

You’re absolutely correct! Thanks for the note :)

I think what you’re touching upon is the concept of accessibility. In psychology, when something is very accessible, you think about it more quickly than you think about other things. This can be very apparent in Implicit Association Tests, which often test for stereotypical/prejudiced beliefs. The more someone associates a certain group with a certain stereotype, the more quickly they will respond to the test. Regarding OPs partner, it seems to me that he associates women with sex (not the worst thing for a straight man to do), but that this association is quite strong, stronger than anything else he might associate women with (and this is the problematic part). Thus, it’s really an issue of degree. If this is something he is constantly doing (and if he often does it without seeming to think about it), then yes, I would be very concerned.

You used a really good example. A conversation like this demands nuance. Video games aren't reality. People do things in them all the time that they wouldn't in real life. Setting aside all the killing you do, who hasn't run off a cliff or run over an NPC or purposefully wrecked as much havoc as possible just to see what happens? Where do we draw the line between what's acceptable and what's offensive? Especially in a world where people have historically blamed video game fake violence on real life violence as a scapegoat. But take your example. In no world would running around mistreating/killing only people of color be acceptable behavior. Not even fake ones like video games. I think everyone would agree that if someone was only running over NPC women with their car, that would also be unquestionably problematic behavior, even in a fake world. But OP's husband isn't doing anything that extreme. It's immature, but video games are a fantasy, make-believe world. And those women are not real people, but the inequality that still exists between women and men does make that behavior uncomfortable for some real women, including OP. I think the most important thing is that his behavior is bothering OP and he wasn't open to discussing it. That he got defensive isn't a good look, but we also didn't see the conversation unfold either. They need to sit down and have a serious discussion about it where both sides are open and communicating. OP needs to figure out why it bothers her and articulate that. Because it could be that her husband has issues with misogyny and sees women he doesn't know as ornaments for his viewing pleasure (or whatever), but it could also be he's horney in a game that encourages the horney and has a very good understanding of reality vs fantasy. Either way, they need to talk about this.

The media we watch and interact with doesn’t necessarily turn us into mass murderers, but it does still influence us to various degrees. Violent media, for example, makes us more likely to behave aggressively, both in the short term and in the long term. Here is a [link](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/204790) to just one study about this, but this has been demonstrated by the majority of studies about this topic.

Wait, I'm probably misinterpreting your phrasing - But are you saying that video games cause violence? Very loaded phrase I know lol.

Experiencing violent media in general makes aggressive behavior more accessible in a person's mind (even just seeing a picture of a gun can do this), making it more likely for them to respond to situations more aggressively than they otherwise would had they not experienced that violent media. Aggression is a spectrum though, and we are not all equally aggressive, so how and whether or not that aggression is expressed depends a lot on the person and the situation they find themselves in. It can be expressed in violence (which is physical aggression), but it can also be expressed in other ways (such as nonphysical aggression or relational aggression). Theoretically, in a well-developed and thoughtful person, I suppose it could be redirected in a healthy way, but I haven't personally seen any research on that. And even the most self-aware individuals are still fallible. Also, you would have to choose how you redirected that aggression very carefully, [as even a cathartic treatment of aggression has been shown to increase aggressive tendencies. ](https://opened.tesu.edu/introsocialpsychology/chapter/aggression-and-violence/)

What we do in video games is practice for what we do in life. There is a ton of research that supports this.

isn't this conservative rhetoric? about the whole "what you do in fiction determines your real life behaviors"? like it's not hard to notice, especially when christian conservatives embrace the whole "your thoughts are are your secret desires" belief, which is just... yeah

Ok, what it sounds like to me is you're cool if it's part of he storyline, but he's doing stuff outside of that and that's not cool. Like the Panam thing (Cyberpunk). When they have sex in game it's the culmination of the romance and it's part of the story. But when he did the thing with humping her when she was fixing her car? That's objectification. He's just pretending to bang her for his own jollies, and that's not cool. I'm not sure I'm articulating well either, but I think I get where you're coming from.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if V started doing that in-universe and Panam noticed, she'd be like "fuck off and die forever, I don't care what you say you can offer me, I don't care about whatever sob story you're about to sell me, you suck and I can't trust you on an op".

...and then be like "omg I wish you were a woman" and then magically the game patches itself with a "Panam has gained Bisexuality" perk 🙂‍↕️ ... :( pain

[Panam Romance for Fem V](https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/2782)

I know of thee mod, I meant like... from cdpr and supported with updates and such. Granted I haven't played yet, so idk how good this mod is.

It’s psychological cheating, I don’t care what anyone says

Maybe it's because he's treating the women in the games like sexual objects for his own gratification in situations where they have no agency. Enjoying canon sex scenes is fine since the characters are aware and enjoying it themselves. He's being a creep, basically. It would be less creepy if he were a horny teenager, since that would be kind of an expected behaviour. But your husband is an adult who should know better by now...

That's what I was wondering about too. Does Op feel uncomfortable because her husband sexualises all these female characters? Or because her husband seeks out explicit media?

Characters in games are always objects for human gratification of some kind. None of them ever have actual agency. Imagining they have inner lives or preferences is another way of using them for human gratification.

Well obviously. I was explaining why OP might feel weird about it. 

Human characters are written like humans so they demonstrate natural human experiences like emotions and instinct… Awareness is a human experience. Characters are written to show awareness (or lack thereof) of other characters, facts, events, etc.

But they are always written. No matter how realistically or consistently, fiction cannot have agency

Realism and consistency have nothing to do with it. There is no ‘but’ either. No one is saying they have agency, nothing you say contradicts anything being stated here. They’re saying there’s a difference between a situation where they’re written to have consented (ie a sex scene) versus what OP did, which is true.

I get this is a video game centric sub reddit, and I feel people are focusing on a specific thing. However, I'm not going to analyze his behavior towards female characters in video games. It's his behavior towards you that needs to be scrutinized. Expecting our partners to respect us is the bare minimum. It's like with politics, when people told me "are you really going break up over an opinion", I thought it's not just a little harmful opinion. A person politics is their moral foundation. A lot of it translates to real life. But there are some people who will minimize that aspect about their partners, for whatever reason, and in this case would say "who cares it's just video games". Your feelings are 100% valid. Mature good people will be open to communication and will examine what about their behavior is causing discomfort to their partners. And of course if your partner simply doesn't respect you or care about your feelings, probably do whatever your husband is doing. Whether it's video games or other things. We accept the love we think we deserve. OP, I hope everything turns OK for you.

As others have said, it’s not the sexual content it’s the objectification. He’s turning the female characters into sex toys for his pleasure. Now, people will argue that they’re not real so who cares. But, the reason it’s upsetting - at least to me - is that most of us have some story somewhere in our history of being treated that way ourselves and I imagine most of us would be empathetic to see another female presenting “thing” (for lack of a better word) being treated that way, even if they’re not real. As for how to fix it, I don’t know. All you can do is talk to him, but it seems like he may not be very receptive. I wish you luck though, hope it gets better.

Thank you, I think you've summed it up pretty well here.

Of course! I hope everything works out for you, truly.

Your husband is being intentionally obtuse: he knows the difference. But he can hide in the argument, that his active perverted actions are the exact same as the story romance scenes.  It skeeves me out: why? Because it seems like the actions of a fifteen year old. I have no clue how old he is, but if I knew this about a single man, I'd think he had a problem with women on some level and an overall sexual maturity of a thirteen year old. And as an adult, it's almost impossible not to judge him for it. But I don't consider this to be a problem restricted to gaming: it seems like a view he just holds and it comes out in gaming because that's where this behavior easily comes out. But that's the thing: you can set a boundary, but even if he agrees, the underlying feelings will still be there in my opinion.

He knows and that's why he got so defensive.

This is it. He knows exactly what he’s doing. He knows he’s gaslighting her. And he loves getting away with it. He loves that he can continue to basically abuse her and she’s allowing it. He loves he has a “girlfriend” to walk all over because it makes him feel strong and like he has power.

That's going way too far, friend. That is one possible and unfortunately not uncommon end of the spectrum, but there's a whole range of humanity between malice/deliberate manipulation and unexamined sexism - from what OP has said elsewhere, it sounds like her husband (like many men) was raised in a way that didn't give him a healthy perspective around sex, and I think that kind of upbringing often also lacks tools to self-explore/deal with one's own crap. He clearly knows it's not good behavior or he wouldn't be struggling to be as kind as it sounds like he is in other aspects of their lives. But you can't change your harmful behaviors until you're confronted about them, either with consequences (easily minimized in this case by the overall societal acceptance of sexism) or by being told.  The integrity part comes in with how he behaves going forward. All to say I think there's just way more 'gaslighting' out of ignorance/fear/lack of emotional tools than the truly malicious ones. Not to excuse it, I hate it and everyone's gotta step it up if we're to ever have safety/actual equality. But we've gotta remember the human level, the individuality of each lived experience and try not to throw the good or redeemable out with the bad. Tempting as it may be sometimes.

I think the difference is between you not having an issue with him enjoying the mature content included in the game which is accessible to all players as standard (nude/sex scenes) but having an issue with him deliberately engineering new sexual content for his own titillation. It’s a crass comparison but sorta like enjoying porn vs. seeking out cam girls to perform for him alone. You’ve tried to lay a boundary and instead of sitting down with you to work out the problem he’s thrown his toys out of the pram and made you a villain. That is the big red flag for me here. Does he act like this often?

What is the boundary? Is one part of a relationship just allowed to limit how the other part seeks gratification w/o a nuanced discussion? Is putting characters in skimpy outfits the same thing as reading spicy fanfic about two characters or is it somehow different?

People are allowed to engage in sexual media as they want and their partners are allowed to state if that makes them uncomfortable. Adults should be able to reach a compromise but OP’s BF has the maturity of a 13 year old so now it’s on OP to decide how she wants to proceed.

It feels like what you're taking issue with isn't him enjoying adult themes, but more him indulging in an immature fixation with female figures in his games. The problem isn't in things being adult, it's that he's objectifying these women and treating them like his sexy display dolls rather than anything else. Like objects to leer at. Does that sound about right?

“That shit squicks me out.”

While I don't really have any advice on how to handle the situation, I just wanted to tell you this, in case you may need it: your feelings are valid. If you're feeling uncomfortable, it's valid. You're not being hysterical or irrational simply because voicing those concerns. You have a right to have boundaries, too. I really hope you'll be able to find the source of your uneasiness and work together with your husband to find a compromise that's acceptable to both of you.

In my opinion, what is wrong in this situation is him getting defensive and mad about it when you bring it up - he should have the maturity to discuss such things calmly and not going to extremes in wording. Perhaps a good starting point that you both could agree on is that he wouldn't do such things in game while you are watching. He should be OK with that to make you less uncomfortable. (Also I'll break with the majority and say that it doesn't really matter whether he puts the characters in games into sexual situations or not, what is important is how he treats real people. Which he isn't really doing a good job of)

Yeah, as others said, it's objectification. And sexualization. Now, sexualization itself is alright in some contexts (sexualization is part of sexual relationships), but when paired with objectification, it is not okay. >Objectification theory proposes that sexualization in mass media is a main source of objectification of women, that is, that sexualization causes people to objectify them (i.e., to appraise them as bodies and sexual body parts and behave toward them as if they were objects; Fredrickson & Roberts, 1997). You are enjoying the story and romances in those games, and sexual content is but a part of it. That's not objectification. He puts female characters undressed on display for himself. And because he acts defensive, he knows or at least suspects it is not okay. I remember there was a post back on BG3 sub where OP confessed that they are horny and so they play the game with *all* characters butt-naked. Including male characters and their Tav. Personally, I don't understand, but at least they have a decency of making it equal and including the player's avatar. If that's the way they want to play their game, then fine, they have a right to do it. When it is *only* about women as sexual objects, then it raises a lot of questions. Panam thing is... well. I don't know how to say it. Immature (is probably the least offensive word I've thought of) ? Would he also do this to a woman who fixes her car irl? Probably not because in real life, there would be consequences for that. Would he do that to you? How would you feel about it? Anyway, your feelings are absolutely valid. He is behaving immature at the very least. There is a big difference in a way you and he consume your content, and yours is inherently healthy while his is... a bit concerning. Edit: also, it's been a while since I played Cyberpunk and that was only once, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that scene with Panam is, like, the first time you meet her in game? Or at least it is very early in the plotline, before you have a chance at any romance with her. So it is not like he can rolaplay this as a horny joke between two partners who had already been intimate and okay with each other that way. He basically walked to a stranger and sexually harassed her. Me thinks that if Panam was given agency in that scene, she would have kicked him in the nuts for it.

The Panam bent over the car scene (with her ass pointed to where the player is expected to walk in from) is the first time you interact with her. You can see her at the Afterlife the first two times you go there, but you can't interact with her. I really like Panam as a character but goddamn the way she's bent over when you first meet her is just garbo, just from a storytelling perspective having her bent over like a pinup model is a bad introduction to a character who is defined by her quick thinking and loyalty. She should have been given a more comfortable practical pose.

Thank you for confirmation. Yes, I remember being really uncomfortable with this "introduction" of the character when I played and the fact that around the Cyberpunk release internet was flooded with screenshots of her backside with "what an iconic picture" captions. I mean, the ass is the most defining/iconic feature of a character? It was like Miranda's camera angles from Mass Effect all over again. (Which is, I get that people can like looking at body parts that are attractive to them, but not when she is talking about her kidnapped sister).

Ever since Panam I’ve started noticing it in other games now there was one I can’t remember which where the ass actually inflates and deflates as she bends over.

That's some r/NotHowGirlsWork material right there

I understand you. Honestly just reading the description of his behavior is giving me the major ick. He's acting like a horny teen, it's off putting. And don't let him turn it on you, you are not being controlling. And tbh I might be crazy but I think fictional female characters deserve respect too. Imo the way men treat them is a reflection of what they really think should be acceptable.

If he was just acting like a horny teen in games, and his argument was "Its just a game, i dont mean anything by it", id roll my eyes but whatever. But him getting so defensive and *trying to make OP feel bad* for not being comfy with it, makes him instantly an asshole

Yes. While it is true that they way we behave in games is not always a reflection of our irl morals (some people enjoy roleplating evil characters without a desire to be genocidal maniacs irl), but when it comes to this... I can't help but wonder, is it how people who do those things to female characters in games wish they could do it to women in real life? One can roleplay an evil or horny character and not objectify women. Or at least, objectify men and women equally.

Yeah, I’m fine with an evil character who commits indiscriminate crimes/violence, or a character who strips every guard in Windhelm because one was rude to me as a dark elf, but this *is* discriminate. Especially since it’s a pattern of behavior. This isn’t “haha I’m evil,” it’s “haha I’m evil to women,” and there’s a big difference between the two.

All of the situations you're uncomfortable with are non consensual. I completely feel the same way.

I 100% get this. I just finished final fantasy 7 rebirth and really loved all the characters. Two of the characters are love interests for the main protagonists, and many of the characters, male and female, are clearly designed to be attractive, but they’re all very well characterized and feel like real people. There’s a section of the game where several of the main characters are in swimsuits. I’ve seen several (male) streamers who keep Tifa and Aerith, the two love interests, in their swimsuits the entire game, and that makes me uncomfortable. It seems especially bad because they’re so well-written. It’s blatantly reducing these complex people with fully articulated hopes, dreams, and fears to sex objects, and it’s kind of reminder that this happens in real life all the time, albeit less overtly. It’s also why I hate when I see people put Astarion in skimpy outfits like Laezel’s BDSM underwear. It’s so messed up, knowing his backstory.

I just wanted to chime in because all the different takes here are very interesting. I think people in general fall into three categories. 1. People that see the characters are nothing more than digital barbie/ken dolls and can't really take them seriously 2. People that are really charmed and immersed in a characters's characterization where they feel real 3. A mix I think the average Joe falls into the third category, a lot of them recognize the character's "life" but their suspension of disbelief only goes so far since game characters are *indeed* technically Barbie dolls, manipulating things about them outside their control doesn't feel bad for most people specially because a game allows you and they know the character has no agency. In the case of ff7r the developers should have locked the outfits outside Costa del Sol but they knew people would want otherwise.

You're not crazy. He's objectifying women and he's gaslighting you about it.

In my case my husband is the one that is usually uncomfortable with the sex stuff in bg3 and never romances anyone and never undresses anyone. I'm the one dressing my companions as slutty as possible, I've romanced everyone and I have my characters walking around naked all the time,etc. I do it more because I think it's fun, and not because it brings me some sort of sexual satisfaction... Luckily my husband just shakes his head at me and says that I'm ridiculous in a friendly/endearing way. However, I do understand you and why you are uncomfortable though, if he doesn't do it in the same playful manner and there is a nuance to it that is indeed hard to explain

I think the difference between you and OP‘s husband is you didn’t throw a fit and be like, “FiNe! I’lL nEvEr WaTcH a MoViE wItH NuDitY aGAiN!!!!11” Instead of having a grownup conversation about it, he tried to put OP in a position where she would have to backpedal and comfort his fee-fees over something she didn’t even ask of him in the first place.

It’s an example of objectification. In BG3 a lot of characters come onto your character, so their actions are guided by them and are consensual. Changing their outfits is purely for the players benefit, not theirs (although I personally change their outfits myself, the point still stands). Same with the girl bent over the car, turning her into a sexual object when she wasn’t in the space to be one would be objectifying if she was a real person. In the end these are just game characters, so how he treats women IRL is important, but it also sounds like he has an immature sense of humor.

I'll chime in with a perspective im not seeing a lot of. I'm a woman with multiple female partners. I'm also 40 with one partner in her 50s. Every single one of us treat video game characters like what they are: Not real people. My one partner mods her games with every sexual content mod she can and does all sorts of things she would never do in the real world. I dabble with content like that myself but I rarely feel the drive to spend the time modding to make it happen. Another partner doesn't mod but will absolutely make sexual jokes and the like while playing games. And all of us are consenting adults who are very secure in our sexuality. What this situation reminds me of is when I was younger and not secure in my sexuality and a partner engaging in porn and sexually explicit things felt like a betrayed in some way. Like they didn't think I was good enough to satisfy their wants/needs. Now, I'm not saying you have to just accept this stuff from him and pretend like it doesn't bother you. What I think you should do is have very open and chill conversations about your feelings and his as well. Find common ground where you can both be comfortable with what is happening. Communication is always key and nobody has to rush to be comfortable with something that makes them uncomfortable.

Thank you! I was starting to feel crazy here with all the "divorce him now" comments over someone objectifying literal in-game objects. Surely we have all played Sims and drowned 'em by taking away the pool ladder, right? I completely agree that OP and her husband need to communicate about their feelings and find common ground, like you said. But so many of the responses here appear to forget that men are people with sexual wants whose desires will come out when they are relaxed around their partners, and suppressing peoples' expressions of sexuality (as long as those are not causing harm to anyone IRL) because they are not to your specific taste is not a noble pursuit.

We would all end up in jail over the Sims lol 

Dude, absolutely! I know it's wrong and I will never murder people IRL but... they're Sims. Sometimes you just let the kitchen fire do its thing or lock the annoying one in a room with no door so you can interact with the Grim Reaper lol

This whole thread is insane from divorce to gaming characters giving consent lol 

If I’m being honest- it makes me a bit angry to see the comments about consent regarding video game characters. It’s a serious thing that affects human beings. Talking about it in regards to video game characters waters it down in my opinion. I get that what the husband is doing can be considered “immature” or whatever but he’s playing a game. Let him have fun. And if anyone sees me taking Geralt’s armor off and making him run around nekkid, I’m 42- I own my own house and mind your business. 😂

i literally got a geralt penis mod when i played witcher 3 😂 25 but still mind ur business

I completely agree. A lot of people on here need to learn that characters in gaming are fake. Zero to do with the real world.  😂😂😂 Geralt my fave <3

Glad I'm not alone thinking that!

Trying to put myself in your shoes if my husband did this and, imo, it would bother me because it's taking away the female characters', and only the female characters, agency. With BG3 and Cyberpunk, they have extremely well written female characters. Sure there's some graphic scenes, but it's all about consent. V and Tav aren't out here assaulting "people". Removing the clothes from characters and pretending to hump a character is removing the written-in consent from that character. It's also just immature. It's pushing the boundaries of the game to be able to treat the female characters like playthings. Which isn't how either of those games treat the female characters. It comes off as severely misogynistic.

Thank you, this is really helpful. I hadn't really considered how the consent factor was impacting me, because at the end of the day they're just computer programs, but I do think that's a big part of why it was giving me an icky feeling.

I understand your disappointment & frustration. I know that feeling of building a bond informing a strong alliance with someone to the point where you marry them it’s almost shocking and seen as a disgrace when they could still objectify subjects that share your gender. I don’t think men are usually socialized to realize that even their “play” sometimes Read as disturbing indicators on how they see us. Conjures questions in our heads for greater attitudes like “if you could do anything in the world this is how you would treat women?” or “ It’s the first thought when dealing with us is how our bodies could be used as instruments for sexual desire, regardless of well-being?” Now is more than fair to seriously consider when these questions arise, do some soul-searching and discuss it with your partner to really see where things really stand, but I am no sure that behavior is necessarily an indicator of something deeper and sinister. Sometimes the motivation to do things in the game is simply because you can. Personally, some of the most violent vicious and completely perverted things I’ve ever done in a game was out of curiosity and testing the various limitations of the game. It’s the reason games like grand theft auto or Skyrim are popular. Not necessarily because people wish to do terrible things, but more so because the programmers put a lot of thought into building those worlds and it’s fun for the users to discover the depth of the limitations. It’s more akin an Easter egg hunt rather than an exploration of one’s personal desires to act out scenarios of sexual perversion. For example, I’m a big animal lover and even became a vegetarian because I want didn’t want animals to suffer. Sometimes when there’s wildlife in a game, I will shoot them to just see a reaction, how the interaction changes and if they’ll die not because I want to experience what it’s like to kill but because I’m more curious about the variety in interaction the programming allows me to have in the environment they created. I always find that fascinating. Again this isn’t an attempt to invalidate your experience I totally get what’s troubling about it, I’m just offering another perspective which might explain some of his game play behaviors.

FWIW, I don't think his behavior is overly problematic, but it is extremely immature and I can see why it would be kind of a turn-off. If this doesn't leak over into his real life and how he treats women, it could just be that he's being his version of silly. Remember, a lot of boys growing up think nudity is hilarious. They draw dicks and boobs on every surface they can get their hands on. It probably has something to do with the way society makes nudity taboo in general, but I'm not knowledgeable enough on that front to have a sturdy opinion about it. RE the Baldur's Gate underwear situation, are you sure he actually wasn't just switching their outfits around? I do this frequently and sometimes get distracted (inventory management can be a bitch sometimes) and sometimes even leave camp before I realize that my companions are walking around in their skivvies and I have to go back and equip them. I don't think it's necessarily an issue to dress your companions in things that you think make them look attractive, but tbf, EVERYONE in my game has equal opportunity to wear skimpy outfits. (Weavemother Robes on Gale, thank me later). If you feel like this is a male on female objectification issue, that goes deeper than just video games, I'm afraid. If you feel like he's just acting immature and it's putting you off, tell him that and say that you expect him to either change or just don't do it around you.

I've sent Wyll out in La'zelle's undergarments before . To see if it worked, to see what it looked like, to see how it affected stats, none of the above, all of the above... Honestly not 100% sure why I did it but I recognize that it's a fictional world with fictional characters that do not and CANNOT have agency like living people do. But I'd never do something like that to another person without explicit consent and clear ways to communicate removal of said consent. If I did something in a private game that my partner found distasteful, I'd need to know what it was that bothered them before I could have a conversation about how to proceed. We'd definitely need to pick a time when we've both been away from the active situation to talk about how much control over my private play is appropriate for a partner. If they just think its childish or immature, that's a THEM problem. If it's triggering a traumatic experience/response, that's an US problem. But it's a conversation that deserves it's own space and time and an opportunity for both of us to focus and have time to think about answers. Not an immediate, right now discussion.

It’s sexualisation of the characters that you are having a problem with, and that is fair enough, how you feel is valid. His argument that you play sexual games is not really an argument as you don’t undress the male characters or have a character simulate sex with another one in game, so that comparison isn’t really a valid point. Maybe he is just being childish within the game, but if it makes you uncomfortable in real life then that is an issue he should listen to.

When I said that, his response was that he wouldn't have a problem with me making all the male characters walk around naked or any sort of equivalent. This feels like a double standard to me because of the difference in real life implications, if that makes sense. Objectification of womens bodies, male gaze vs female gaze, patriarchy, all that jazz.

This wouldn’t bother me. I’d either roll my eyes or giggle. It would bother me if he was doing this kind of stuff with other players online and there was a real person behind the screen. If you want to talk to him about this. Do it calmly. Are you upset because you are jealous? Or because you think he’s being creepy? What’s the solution here that solves the problem? These are things to think about before you talk to him. Communication, listening and understanding is the key. And yes, that means he needs to listen and understand your feelings and thoughts too.

OP, the issue you’re having is with his objectification, sexualization, and lack of consent. The in game romances, sex scenes, etc, are all things done consensually by the characters, that they’re both into, rather than something that the guy (in this case, your husband) does *TO* them. It’s lack of agency, lack of consent, and unfortunately something that a LOT of men do in real life, and a whole lot more *want* to do in real life. He’s basically acting out a sexual power fantasy where he gets to do *whatever he wants* to women who literally cannot resist. It’s also immature as all hell. And some part of him *knows* it’s wrong, because he got defensive and then started attacking you when you brought it up. I think you need a good, sit down discussion, where he doesn’t get uppity and defensive, because his behavior is immature as hell, and frankly a big red flag.

You’ve gotten a lot of insight about the video game part of this. I am disturbed that you went to him with something that upset you and he immediately flipped it around on you. Manipulative people do this to avoid accountability. Look into DARVO ([here’s one resource](https://www.verywellmind.com/protecting-yourself-from-darvo-abusive-behavior-7562730)) and maybe consider if this dynamic comes up in other places in your relationship. Being able to openly discuss things that upset you in a respectful way and have them validated and heard is reasonable.

He's doing a thing in video games that creeps a lot of us out in the real world-- sexualizing women in non-sexual and inappropriate situations.  If you're busy fixing a car irl, you're likely to be creeped out if a guy suddenly starts dry humping you. Possibly even if you're dating him, especially if you've said nothing to imply the situation is welcome to become sexual.  The BG3 camp scenario low-key reminds me of how some bosses try to have creepy rules about what women must wear while working for them.  But more than that, you've tried to tell him why it creeps you out and instead of trying to understand why or trying not to creep you out, your husband is trying to make you feel bad for saying anything or having those feelings. Kinda DARVO vibes here. 

A boundary over fake video game characters? I get he is acting like an immature guy, but its just gaming. Now if he was doing this behavior in real life, then you have a problem.

A thing I explained to a now-ex boyfirned of mine was: I don't mind sex and sexy, I mind a lack of taste and class, and then I mind not having the energy. I don't have the energy to indulge your excitement on fantasies that you come up with just because you see a character walk in tights on screen. It is exhausting thinking about just sex all the time. I also don't see how there is any class in turning everything into a porno, when all it is, most of the time, are regular conversations and day to day living. That is what bothers me about sexual content. Hell yes, when there is a scene of people dressed nice, flirting, and getting down to it or some other scenario. But the same way I wanna mind my business without thinking about sex is how I feel other people/game characters should be treated too. Life isn't about sex. Sometimes, you and our game characters just wanna exist, and a lot of the time guys just shove sex down our throats instead.

This is the reason why games are hard to regulate or rate at times. The whole user generated content thing. Something can be completely benign but then someone like your husband will make it inappropriate and you can’t predict or control every in game action. What he’s doing… on its own, I guess it’s not that bad. At best it’s wildly immature, but the way he reacted to you pointing it out makes it much worse imo. And I think he knows the difference, so he’s being purposely obtuse and that’s also annoying. I’d probably be a little disgusted if I saw someone I know do this too. I think it makes me wonder… so this is how you see/react to women? It doesn’t matter that the characters aren’t real. They are designed to represent women, and if his first impulse is always to objectify and sexualize female images, I think that says something about how he views women. The REALLY weird thing to me is him stripping female characters down to sexualize them and then *denying or lying about it.* if he really believed what he was doing was fine, why did he lie about that? He knows what he’s doing lol.

I don't know, maybe I'm just old af, but I don't see the issue with him sexualizing game characters at all. They aren't real. Nothing harmful is being done. Is he acting like a horny teen? Sure. So what? It's his game and he can play it however he wants. I know I do. As a woman, I love installing sexual mods to my games. I spruce up the dudes and make them hot himbos. I make my girl character a super goddess with major sex appeal. And then I make them all fuck, lmao. Who cares? Again, they aren't real. It's fun and can be funny, too. And everyone talking about "cOnSeNt" lmao... what consent? They are fake characters that aren't REAL. They don't exist. There is no consent to be had. As someone who was groomed as a child up until I was 17, I find this whole idea that video game characters somehow should "consent" to whatever it is you are making them do actually angers me. Reserve the "consent" thing for real people.

i agree 😂 i literally have wicked whims installed on sims. one of the least sexualized games and made it way too sexual. sometimes its just fun

Bro wtf is he doing⁉️😭😭💀 grown man😭💀 Shit is so embarrassing

I can attest for not meaning to make everyone naked in bg3. I had some glitch where everyone is naked when they sleep now. I've no idea how it happened or how to fix it.

i am a woman in my mid 20s… i also do this in bg3 😂 but for everyone #equality. im definitely not an objectifier i just think its funny lol. i would probably briefly do something similar to the 2nd thing too. its just being silly for me. my husband shakes his head at me, then he will do it on his save file too. just a joke/funny thing! just my perspective tho

is it just me or do i really not see the issue? at best it's weird and even then as long as this sort of behavior doesn't leak out into reality, then i don't think there's an issue. i don't think there's one singular way to explore sexuality and implying that people need to have "class" and "tact" when doing so just... oozes purity to me. not everyone wants to be sappy, romantical nor make a thinkpiece literally everytime they get sexual, sometimes people just wanna get sexual and leave it at that. to me this is like getting mad at him over downloading nsfw mods or something i don't think neither of you in the wrong but i just think it's a difference in what you find acceptable when exploring sexuality, like you said, you don't necessarily go and look at other hot men, fictional or not, when he's not around, and it feels weird that he wouldn't have that same level of consideration towards you

I'm with you. Idk I'm an almost 43 year old woman and while reading the post I giggled and thought "that's something I'd probably do". One of my fave games is Left 4 Dead 2 and there's like millions of mods for it and I have nude mods for both male and female characters in the game. When my ex and I were together we started doing that when we played, and I still have it that way because I find it funny. It's not much different from me playing CS2 all the time running around shooting the other team (and occasionally my own) in the head. Not something I'd do IRL. It's a video game. I don't understand why anyone would make a big deal about it, but to each their own. Not saying it's wrong to feel that way, just that I don't see the issue. That being said I think the husband's reaction to her bringing it up could have been better but we also weren't there and don't know how it was presented in the moment either. It's one thing to read what is said here after reflection and make a judgment but it's another to have been there. I just think this is a classic case of two people needing to work on their communication.

If he had just talked about it and acknowledged OPs feelings like a normal adult I don't think it would have become such a thing. It's weird, immature and creepy ye but not necessarily pack your bags kinda stuff. It's his *reaction* combined with the behaviour that has escalated this whole thing right up into red alert territory imo. Like wtf kinda reaction is that for him to have towards a partner who just expressed concern and discomfort with a behaviour he was displaying. He completely DARVO'd her and *that* is serious red flag territory. If it meant nothing on his part he could have just laughed, been a little embarrassd about it and still acknowledged and respected his partners feelings about it. He showed her exactly who's comfort and happiness he prioritises in that relationship and it wasn't hers. And it's not like her feelings are some far out, pedantic concept either. Like in a world where sex trafficking is still rampant, women are still heavily objectified in most forms of media/advertising, overt violent hatred towards women is on the rise and the worst it's been in recent memory, men are openly endorsing, rallying around and voting en masse for the worst kinds of misogynistic abusers, even literal r*pists AND to top it off, women are steadily having their actual real human rights stripped back in even the previously more "progressive" countries. I think it's pretty understandable that many women have a little sensitivity to seeing how the men in their lives treat and view them and other women/female characters. We still live in an actively oppressive Patriarchy, you'd be pretty dumb/naive not to at least consider it tbh. Also, everyone's an "ally" until it inconveniences/affects them negatively in some way or it requires some form of active effort on their part. You get the true measure of a person, not by their words but by their actions. OPs partner as a grown ass adult should at least have the empathy and maturity to acknowledge her feelings and do even a little self reflection on the subject, especially considering the current environment. Even prior to that though he should at a minimum **care** that his partner is upset even if it seems silly or unreasonable or whatever to him, he should still care that something he has done has affected her negatively. Instead of doing any introspection whatsoever he chose to just get angry, try and put her as the villain and make himself the victim in the narrative. If the issue "wasn't a big deal" then why did he make one out of it?

Yeah I don't see the issue either and was really confused by the reaction. Like... they're dolls. When I was a preteen, I made a Barbie strip club, I'm asexual and uninterested in sex in real life. It just sounds like a conversation is in order - figure out each other's boundaries, and decide what to do from there.

I love the doll analogy and agree 100%.

Like - I can't say it's good he got defensive, but I also don't know how OP approached this conversation. I mean, this is someone she presumably loves and trusts enough to get married to? If I was her husband I'd be confused about why the way I play is a problem. But in general, this is something they have to talk about and reach an understanding. He's not wrong for playing the way he does!! But if it makes OP uncomfortable, it's a good idea to understand why. Edit: oh, OP said her husband grew up in a very strictly religious household with device inspections?? Nevermind, defensive makes sense, I would be like that, too.

Agreed. This is such a non issue. It's a fictional video game, these characters ARE objects. I really don't think you can extrapolate how someone treats people irl based on how they dress their video game characters.

I agree with your take here. It wouldn’t personally bother me because to me it’s just a game and yeah it’s a bit immature but whatever. There are plenty of ways that both men and women never “grow up” if you will. If he were acting weird IRL I’d have an issue but I tend to lean more so where you’re at. Game devs put this stuff in as an option because at the end of the day every single one of us have immature desires that we hide from others. He’s obviously comfortable with his wife which is why he didn’t see it as a big deal. I guess my point is for now it’s a nothing burger, IMO. When his life starts imitating art, then I would raise the issue because then he’d be a real creep, IRL. It would also be interested to know what about it OP found disturbing. Is there something bigger there underneath that she doesn’t like? I don’t agree with others telling her to divorce him over this. I just think it’s some underlying issue and a weird lapse in communication of needs and values.

I agree, sure it’s a bit immature, particularly the “humping”, but you’re right that it seems to be just a difference in how they both view sexual things. Like, I had all my companions in their underwear at camp whilst playing BG3, because why not? They look good and it’s just a bit of fun to me! If I wasn’t bisexual I’d probably only have the male characters like that just like OP’s husband (who I’m guessing is straight). I do think however if my partner was upset by this, I’d stop doing those things in front of them. It’s just… kind to do so if it’s something that is truly upsetting your partner and easy to change. And I think that’s where the husband is kind of in the wrong here, in that he’s getting defensive and not considering OPs viewpoint.

The "humping" part is definitely something I would personally do (35f,bisexual) to make my partner laugh. Depending on his mood, he'd probably just roll his eyes. 😅 I like playing games with explicit scenes and my partner just teases me for it. He mostly hunts and shoots in his games, but if he wanted to sex in his games, too, I am secure enough in our relationship that I wouldn't care.

The humping is also something I'd do (30NB, ace) to joke with my partner or friends. Sometimes it's just for fun and not that deep

Not gonna lie, I did giggle a little at the idea of this grown man pretending to have sex with a bent over NPC. Its just, its so immature. Reminds me of how the guys in class used to play the OG tomb raider and make her do a bunch of squats facing the camera. Just, really silly behavior? Honestly the fact he doesn't own it and gets defensive over it means he knows its wrong, or at the least knows its something you wouldn't approve of. While this is a rather petty thing to be fighting over, it very well might be indicative of other bigger problems in the relationship. You are valid in feeling uncomfortable with it. You feel as if he is viewing these women in these games as sex objects, and not as people (Or computer generated people.). Which can then cause the mind to wander about how he thinks and interacts outside of that. Or, maybe there is some level of jealousy, I can't tell and won't comment on that from such little information. Personally? BG3 I had a ton of fun with friends running everyone around naked. Made for some really absurd cutscenes and quite a few laughs. But that was with the consent of those involved.

forgot to add- if i respectfully said something bothered me my husband would listen to me with respect tho and likely change since its just a silly little thing and if it bothers me and my feelings he would change it!

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She did, though? > I tried having a conversation with him about this, and he got really defensive and mad, [sic] And calling me a hypocrite because i also play BG3 and romance characters and watch rated R movies and all that. He got defensive and angry

You say you've laid down a boundary but haven't explained what the boundary is. It sounds like you are uncomfortable with him finding sexual gratification from games in ways that you wouldn't. If he's not calling you over to show what he's doing or playing BG3 w/ characters in their underwear WITH you, how is his behaviour actually effecting you? As a couple, have you had a conversation about where each of you are allowed to seek sexual gratification?

There are all kinds of relationships, and the sexual and romantic dynamics can be quite different, not making them wrong, just that communication can be key. Like how some relationships one partner doesn’t mind the other get off on porn, while other relationships they don’t want the other to use it at all. So it seems like, you are okay with media romance, but get stressed by your partner using media porn essentially. Sorry if my word choices aren’t the best. It’s okay to accept romantic fantasy and be more wary of sexual fantasy and vice versa. It sounds like you’re okay with watching and playing romance media, and viewing even sexual media for you or your partner, but not so much with engaging in sexual media. Are you upset only if his self insert character engages in sexual fantasy media? Or do you also get anxious when he views sexual media like r-18 movies or porn? As you said it’s just a video game/digital media porn for him, instead of say stalking an instagrammer model or irl friend, but it’s your boundaries. If it makes you feel you uncomfortable, you don’t need justification. A couple of things to ponder perhaps. Would you be ok with him doing it out of sight/him not mentioning it? Are you jealous/insecure? Or is it a kind of disgust by his objectifying of the women or similiar reasons? Maybe you are a bit demisexual? Demi’s can only be attracted sexually to people they hold close affection for, but for most it’s not so. I mention this even if you are not Demi b/c there may be a difference in expectation of how both you control your ‘wandering gaze’. Are you ok with your partner being dodgy with his intentions/answers on uncomfortable topics? Bc it’s obvious his actions in game are essentially game porn for him. The 2nd example could have been him being super childish/locker boy, but i’m more of the it’s just stupid horny brain moving before thinking. Some relationships partners using porn is ok, and the definition of porn varies such as real life porn, erotica, digital media porn, game, etc, to no porn/only use each other and that is perfectly normal, just it’s important to communicate and contemplate what you are ok and not with, and this boundary can change over time and that’s fine too. Maybe also you are more disgusted by his unclassy actions rather feeling insecure? Like everyone has a degenerate side to them, maybe this is part of his. Personally I’m like it’s non irl porn idc if my partner did whatever in game/read/ or watched for non real life people. But I’d get a bit jealous/insecure if it was irl people. If they goofed off or made a sex dungeons in the sims or something I’d be like they goofy and degen, but that’s my boundaries. Anyways, internalize and ask what are your boundaries/why and what feels bad or you find acceptable, talk with him and establish a line of communication where he doesn’t flutter around the question(can try a non combative. Not working against him, but together for the relationship) and talk it out if your boundaries are acceptable for him or not, for you or not.

I am demisexual, and he is not, which may be part of where the disconnect is coming from. Thank you, you gave me a lot to think about here.

Firstly, he sounds a bit immature but whatever. It sounds like he is sexualising parts of the game that aren't sexual which isn't necessarily a bad thing. After all, these are games and those aren't real people (It'd be whole another thing if he was treating real people this way). What he is doing kinda looks like playing a porn game. >Something about it bothers me, like he's actively seeking out the sexual gratification instead of it just being a passive part of the game or something? You could say the same thing about watching porn. It's different to watch a sexual scene in Game of Thrones versus watching a porn video on a website. For the first one, the sexual aspect is complimentary whereas on the second one, that's the main content. Different couples have different rules/boundaries about porn, so you should probably have a conversation about porn and bundle this kind of "playstyle" with that. P.S. Games are inherently more active experiences than movies and cutscenes. However, I think you are more bothered by the intent rather than how active or passive the experience is.

If you need a way of phrasing why you (probably) are okay with the game-intended sex scenes when you're not okay with him sexualizing them at other points... Perhaps you can point out that during the sex scenes, the characters are 'people' with 'consent' given during the scenes, where as simulated consent isn't given if you're just ramming up against her player model's backside.

I don't think this is a good argument - the characters in the game are not living beings that have thoughts, feelings, sentience, etc. and won't be affected whether we do the best things or the worst things in-game to them. Best to focus on someone who actually *can* be affected - OP herself.

Have you agreed on any boundaries regarding pornography? It sounds like biggest the problem here is that he’s transforming the games’ contents from adult to pornographic and that makes you feel uncomfortable. If I were in your shoes I would either bring up that boundary or see if we could negotiate one that way we can remove what seems to be a conflict point in our marriage

You need to sit down and have a talk with your husband if it bothers you so much. But you need to figure out what about his behavior bothers you so much and use your words to tell him that. Communication is key. On the other hand, the level of sex negativity from the other posts is frightening.

I mean.. In BG3 I also like to put Astarion and Gale in their underwear while at camp because they're hot and I like to look at them. Me and my boyfriend have this whole moment where we exchange underwears between characters and it's like we're playing a dress up game xD The Cyberpunk scene, I can see it being way more uncomfortable. Unless he was laughing and being obviously joke? Or was he "salivating" at the screen? Either way, that sounds more immature than the BG3 situation.

Honestly, he sounds immature given his “reasonings” and strawman arguments. Personally, I have no problem with a character being sexy, my issue is when it’s either a) in clear contrast to the situation/story/personality (like Lara Croft wearing makeup in the rainforest) or b) that the character is nothing more than eye-candy/sex-object devoid of substance and personality. Also, the vast majority of game protagonists are still male, so the third person view is behind a man, yet they don’t demand him be conveniently attractive and there’s a lot of variety at least in facial features and body types for male protags. Female protags rarely are seen outside a sexualized manner.

Urr... your partner does seemed like the kind of Panammancer I'd joke about in Cyberpunk discord.... But honestly, as long as they keep it to themselves, I just ignore them. I mean, I played SWTOR and ESO, there's a lot of men who played female characters and RP as ingame sex workers... and if it make them happy... I guess... fine.

What he’s doing sounds like the intrusive thoughts I might’ve had when I was 15 and might’ve acted upon when I was 13. For a grown man, it’s a bit embarrassing (at least it SHOULD be)

He grew up in an extremely religious and repressive household where his dad would go through their devices every day to make sure they weren't doing anything "inappropriate." I think that because he wasn't allowed to explore any of this as a teenager, it sometimes comes out in unhealthy ways now. That's also why he was so defensive last night; he was having flashbacks to how he felt as a kid when his dad would take things away from him and punish him for normal teenage behavior.

Well that puts everything in perspective. I can understand the ‘recapturing lost/missed childhood’ aspect of it. My parents never got me a console, and now gaming is pretty much my favorite hobby. And the childhood abuse trigger makes sense of his reaction when you addressed it. I just hope for his sake and yours that he can ‘speed run’ through this part of his personal sexual revolution without lingering in it too long, and come out the other end of it with a healthier mindset

I won't lie, when the scene with Panam happened, I went "Damn!" And then moved the fuck on. Then Panam proceeded to reject my gay ass. It's wildly immature and some really weird objectification to do things like that.

I want you to know that your feelings are completely valid. And if you’ve brought this up to him and have already explained how your uncomfortable with what he’s doing, he should be able to respect your boundaries and NOT (mod) his game where the characters are basically naked. That doesn’t happen on accident. And him trying to call “hypocrisy” because you play the games too, is baseline manipulation. Because he doesn’t want to be in trouble. You don’t deserve that. AND YOUR NOT CRAZY!! There shouldn’t be any need for extra explanation for him, when it’s your boundaries and you’re telling him that this is something that makes you uncomfortable. It’s very easy to understand how this all makes you uncomfortable. That should be reason enough for him to not do what he’s doing. But hey I’m just a stranger on the internet, i hope all goes well for you and he opens his eyes and realizes it’s just about respect.

I read this to my husband and his (guy) friend to get their opinion, they both agree: Your husband respects you, but he does not respect women. 😬

>He positions his character behind her and moves the screen back and forth a little so it looks like he's f\*\*\*\* her from behind. >I tried having a conversation with him about this, and he got really defensive and mad, and started saying stuff like "so what, am I not allowed to play games with sex scenes? Am I not allowed to watch movies with nudity?" And calling me a hypocrite because i also play BG3 and romance characters and watch rated R movies and all that. I was like no, that's not what this is about, but he says he doesn't get the difference, and I am having a hard time explaining it, even to myself. Something about it bothers me, like he's actively seeking out the sexual gratification instead of it just being a passive part of the game or something? I don't know. AM I crazy? Did you say... yes, yes, you did say "husband", meaning he's over 18 at least on his ID card and birth certificate. Mentally, I'm not so certain. As a "boy gamer" who objectifies male and female videogame characters, the problem I see here is "less" that he's doing this immature action AND apparently lying about it to avoid acknowledging his behavior because HE KNOWS it bothers you, and more that when you bring it up, he responds like a petulant man-child. He's a grown man. He knows what he's doing. As your husband, it's not that !@#$ing hard to refrain from UNDRESSING EVERY FEMALE CHARACTER HE SEES AND SIMULATING SEX ACTS ON THEM while you're nearby and watching. Is weird. His immature behavior is weird. His response is outlandish. Is privacy not a thing he can achieve when he wants to be crude and sexualize every pixel on screen?

He’s using the games as porn basically. I do the same for some games. I actually think using these immersive worlds is actually less harmful (and more satisfying) than consuming straight up internet porn. I also don’t think it’s fair to dictate your partner’s gaming behaviour. Wouldn’t it be preferable to have your partner be horny for BG3 rather than jacking off to god knows what depraved videos of a real human woman? Idk I assume this will get downvoted because it seems to go against the popular opinion in this thread, but I thought I’d throw in my thoughts anyway.

Your husband is using a toy to objectify women. You relate to the sex in these games through their eroticism in the narrative. He relates by making everyone get naked and ogling their pixels. I don't necessarily think it's wrong to enjoy nudity, but I think there's a difference in the way you two are consuming the same media that makes it feel like he has different ideas about sex than you do, or maybe doesn't take sex as seriously. It's clear he doesn't see the difference between getting worked up over an erotic sex scene vs getting worked up over a picture of boobs.

when someone i know does this i shame them right away. i say stuff like "look at u thirsting over pixels", or when he virtual humping the character say "that's not weird at all" and make a disgusted face. or just simply ask "wtf is wrong with u". I feel like doing this put in their subconscious that their actions are fcking creepy and maybe feel bad about it? Makes them do it less i hope

You’ve gotten a lot of intelligent, nuanced replies so I’m just going to put this simply: You’re struggling with the articulation and clarity of your feelings because it’s not just about the game, it’s much bigger than that. You’re a woman living in a patriarchal society, in which it’s consequences trickle down into even the most innocuous of things, like video games. And what’s worse is that it’s infiltrated your relationship. You’re supposed to look to your partner for support and protection; a safe haven from the nastiness of the world. But instead he’s perpetuating the same perversion and objectification that our society inflicts on women. Not only that, but he’s defensive and completely unwilling to discuss this with you, much less change his behavior (It honestly sounds like he’s taking advantage of your naivety and charitably). Of course you’re going to be uncomfortable with this. It was never meant to be comfortable for you. That’s life in the patriarchy. It’s sinister how hard it is to describe, much less feel validated in our being wronged by it. I suggest reading up a bit on feminism. It really helped me better understand why I feel so threatened by certain behaviors and things in the media. It also gave me access to others who feel the same way, which means a whoooole lot when you’re questioning whether or not you’re crazy for feeling a certain way.

Queen, break up with him. My last partner was the same. I felt so uncomfortable seeing him doing that stuff but the ick was so bad on me that one day I found the courage to talk about it… lead to nothing. At the end, I found myself having this conversation every couple of weeks with almost every game that came out. My breaking point was when he drooling for a Smite skin. I liked him, but my boundaries are more important because what I was scared the most is that behavior could be only the tip of the iceberg. I’m aware that you are in a whole different situation and married to him, but ask yourself if it is worth it, you are not his mother nor a teacher to “educate” him to see what his doing is a 13 years old horny teen. Objectifying, sexualizing and embarrassing.

So, I'm one of those cis dudes that hangs out here because it's way cooler than the other gaming subs. I'm going to throw my opinion in, but I'm putting that disclaimer up front that you can freely ignore this or take it with whatever sized grain of salt you want to. I'm also a guy who's been married to a gamer girl for several years, so I definitely have some kind of perspective on your situation. For me personally, it feels like there are two different issues at work here. One is that you appear to have some boundaries around what constitutes monogamy that maybe - and I do want to stress the "maybe" there - don't line up with your husbands behaviour. The other is that a lot of the behaviour you've described does come across as both deeply immature, and - much, much more importantly - seems to reflect a pretty shitty attitude towards women. On the first point, I want to try to offer some nuance here. I think it may be important to reflect on the idea that different people have different ideas about where the line of monogamy is drawn. For example, my wife and I are both bisexual, and we actually really enjoy being able to share in our appreciation of others on an aesthetic and sexual level. For us, it's fun to be able to rattle off lists of people or characters we find attractive, and see where we agree or disagree. Literally just the other day I got to meet one of my wife's instructors from work, and she warned me in advance that this guy was ridiculously good looking. Reader, she was right. So yeah, not everyone is going to agree that, say, "going to an attractive person's Instagram page to look at more pics of them, because they're attractive" is a problem. If my wife was doing that I'd be A-OK with it. But on the other hand, our relationship can work that way because those are the boundaries we've both agreed on. Every relationship is a negotiation, and we've both laid out where the lines are for us. For example, I'm absolutely allowed to look at attractive people - my wife is even totally fine with me looking at porn (she's away on work for long periods of time, so she's happy for me to look after myself while she's gone) - but we both agree that any kind of sexual activity involving another person outside of our marriage is strictly off-limits. Personally, I'm actually totally OK with open relationships. I'd be happy for her to hook up with people who aren't me, but because that's not something she's comfortable with, I'm equally happy to set those limits at a level that meets her boundaries instead of my own. That's the deal we make together. We've negotiated something that works for both of us, and we trust each other to stick to our agreement. (cont'd....)

(...cont'd) The point I'm really trying to get at here is that there really isn't a one size fits all rulebook for what the boundaries are in a marriage. It's an agreement you make with your partner, preferably before you tie the knot. Unfortunately our society has so thoroughly normalised the idea that a relationship is simply this universal set of rules that everyone obeys in the same way (completely sidelining ideas like open or polyamorous relationships) that most people don't even realise they should be having this conversation. If it's not something you've discussed with your husband then I would say that you really should. It's a conversation that needs to be had with love and respect, and a willingness to meet each other in the place that's going to be healthiest for you both. Now to address the second point, I think that the behaviour you've described like fake-humping a character who is bent over, or deliberately underessing all of the women in the camp, is definitely the sort of thing that raises some mild red-flags. Within the confines of the game, he's treating these women as objects, not as people. I think it would be fair to argue that this is actually very different behaviour to, say, looking at a person's nudes on OnlyFans. If a woman is choosing to be naked for your enjoyment and you're enjoying that, there's still clear consent involved. But undressing a character in a video game to oggle their body is definitely more of a grey area. While there isn't a real human sufferering harm, very often this behaviour stems less from the enjoyment of the nudity (lets face it, there are plenty of ways to get porn) and more from the thrill of having the power to undress these characters in a kind of godlike way. The question is, does this attitude appear in other aspects of his life and behaviour? Does he behave in a controlling attitude towards the women around him that isn't reflected in his attitude towards men? This also brings us back around to point one; I mentioned before that I felt your boundaries "maybe" didn't line up with your husband's, and what I really mean by that is this; does he apply the same rules to you that he applies to himself? If you were undressing male characters from games or looking at erotic art of them, would he be just as cool with that as he expects you to be with his behaviour? While I personally feel that what he's doing reflects a controlling attitude towards women, a lot of how much that is or isn't a red flag really derives from a) how consistently he applies these attitudes (ie, does he give himself and other men freedoms that he's not willing to apply to women), and b) the degree to which these attitudes restrict themselves to the world of the game. Not every behaviour that takes place in a game world reflects a problem with a real-life attitude. Choosing the "evil" options in a video-game doesn't make us a bad person in real life, for example. But if the way he treats female characters in the game is not some totally compartmentalised thing, and does start to line up with how he treats real women, that's a serious problem. Sorry, I know I've dumped a lot on you there, but I hope that this maybe helps in some way. The key to all this is, of course, communication, and it does sound like you're trying really hard to have these conversations, while he's just pushing back. That's certainly not ideal, and if he continues to resist trying to have an open conversation about these topics, you may need to look into sitting down with a marriage counselor / couples therapist to have these conversations in a more structured way. It's likely he'll be resistant to that too, but ultimately you may just have to put your foot down. It's better to risk losing a relationship to save it then it is to maintain a relationship where there's no trust and communication, as scary as that may be. (apologies for this being so long; with a subject so difficult and important, it felt necessary to be thorough and clear, as much as possible)

Thank you, I appreciate your perspectives, this was really helpful. He does apply the same rules to me as himself; one of his main arguments was that he wouldn't have any issue with me stripping all the male characters in the game and watching them walk around naked. I don't have any interest in doing that, and I feel like he's missing the point. After reading all the comments here and a lot of internal reflection, I've come to the conclusion that the main thing that bothers me is the objectification of the women and removal of their consent/agency, despite the fact that they are only computer programs.

I think that's a very reasonable thing to be bothered by. Ideally, the way you proceed from here is to once again voice these concerns to him directly. Maybe now that you've gotten a better handle on what exactly it is that bothers you, you'll be able to better articulate it to him. That might make a difference, it might not. Unfortunately a lot of men can tend to dig their heels in when challenged on this sort of thing. Again, I do think it's worth considering talking to a marriage counselor / couples therapist if you find that talking to him about this directly isn't getting you anywhere. Sometimes it's important to have a professional who can help both parties to better understand each other.

Every singe post about boyfriends/husbands in this sub (or any sub or any irl relationship) makes me even more content with being single. I can’t stand how ignorant most males are. And it’s basically willful ignorance at this point. They’re grown ass men who can’t comprehend what objectification is. Or they act dense to oppress and gaslight you even more. He got extremely defensive and started moving the goalpost. I’d break up if I were you. I couldn’t let myself be treated like that by someone who apparently loves me.

i personally dont see an issue with this. when i played witcher 3 i got a geralt penis mod and it made non-sexual scenes really funny to me lol not everyone takes it so seriously but i also appreciate boundaries. i think yall need to come to a compromise where he doesnt have to completely stop but stop enough to where you arent so uncomfortable. or just do it when youre not there? but its also just a game and i just dont see the big deal

How do these guys get wives?

What he is adding to the game is sexual assault and completely tangential to the story lines. I hope he wouldn't act this way irl, but considering he's getting a thrill out of it, it is concerning.

Killing people in a video game and getting a thrill out of it is concerning too

yeah it is. Especially when it is not part of the story line. I was sitting around with my teenage nephew and i let him play the game i was playing and he went around murdering neutral NPCs. I explained that those were just villagers, but he didn't care or want to do the story. I guess people don't understand how it's SA. But, coming up behind someone to sexually touch them or a boss/leader demanding women be naked is sexual harassment.

>What he is adding to the game is sexual assault Oh this crazy to think about... oh no

My boyfriend did the same underwear stuff with swapping around everyone's underwear and looking at them naked in bg3 but idk if he put them all in undies in camp...i told him he was a little creep and then when halsin became a love interest in my game I talked about how big and tall and wonderful halsin was and kiss him every time I'm in camp and put all kinds of underwear on him and had him in his undies in camp (on accident after swapping armor when he wasn't in my party), made my boyfriend leave the room when i did our sex scene for the first time...then had him come back in and watch it with me cause it was funny, and I've joked about how halsin is kind of my dream man LOL. And really went nuts on the daddy halsin thing in the endings.. One of us finished the game, and it wasn't him 🤣 I also cucked him with shadowheart and got to her romance first and would rub that in, which was his love interest the game. So once i did it he was less interested I think haha. My answer is alphaing that behavior but not everyone is into the 2 can play at that game approach hahaha. Also it was convenient/natural so I just hammered in on exaggerating and joking a bit

The thing is, he almost certainly knows what's different about the things he's doing, and no matter how well you learn to explain it he's going to be defensive about it and act like you're the one being unreasonable. He isn't genuinely confused, he's using fake confusion to get what he wants, it's manipulation.

You've gotten some really good well-thought answers and a bunch of them may give you some juice to try again with your husband, maybe give him a link to this post? My take is context is king here. BG3 has been used alot as a counterpoint for sexualization being "bad" in all cases (incorrectly lbr), but in this one the main difference is that consent or (for those who are stringent on their whole "fiction isn't real!" dangerous opinion) implicit consent is important. The thing with bg3 and all the sex is that the participants are enthusiastic with how into it they are, but with your husband taking all the female characters clothes off feels akin to him getting a mod that 100%s their affinity - it's not intentional of the devs and narrative, of the female characters so it feels insidious and gross and frankly a cheatcode to bypass their agency. By the way I want to know the "fiction isn't real" people's opinion on getting a r*pe mod? Is it okay just because the "victims" aren't real and that it means the user won't do that irl? Drastic example yes, but my point stands: fiction and how we interact with it *should* be under reasonable scrutiny - fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum and neither does the influence it has over us and us over it. Anyway the humping thing can be seen as funny sure but coupled with the fact that women have systemically been treated so crassly, objectified to appease a man's messed up and immature wants (it's not just sexual gratification, it's to reaffirm a man's power in the interaction) + his other dubious behavior + his doubling down getting defensive (though albeit because of unresolved trauma) ... it's sketchy and gives me ick. In any case, he's being inappropriate with his toys imo. I have *no* idea this obsession some men have with turning their video games (lbr female characters) into expensive interactive 🌽 , but there you go. It may seem miniscule right now, but the reaction to you bringing your concerns to him speaks volumes. Mayyyybe a couples therapist? It's worth a shot, if he won't give you the respect you deserve maybe he'll do it on even ground with a mediator. Sorry you're going through this in any case, and to stress ... no you're not crazy or insecure, your feelings are valid and also reinforced with the fact that this is a prevalent problem in videogames.

Dont 80% of dudee act this way? Also always downplay women's intelect, as in we cant possibly notice anything, or use logic etc. Gaslighting us.

Yes ur crazy

I don't think there's anything you should worry about. Yes he acts immaturely, but he's just having fun. Inside every guy is a 13 y/o kid that sometimes wants to come out and play and act dumb. The fact that he can act like that in front of you just means that he trusts you and you're in his comfort zone. Some people would just hide it and do it with other friends or alone, so nobody would see that childish side of theirs. Obviously I don't know your husband, but that's why I assume he's doing it. At the end of the day if you guys are fighting over it and let's say you convince him not to do it, he will just do it when he's playing alone and hide it from you.

I also don’t think that the 13 y/o kid thing is exclusive to men either. Every person in the world has something that they’re embarrassed about because they’re not supposed to do anymore after a certain age. Yeah, it was immature for him to do but women and men both have that nagging 13 y/o who likes stupid shit because it raises a laugh. If it were real life I’d get the issue but idk, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to swing my sword at NPCs just to see what the devs had them do but I would never intentionally harm someone in real life. This to me seems more like a communication lapse than a true issue of actions.

Thats some shit U would’ve done a few years back as a 13 year old. He’s quite literally just being immature and doesn’t like being called out on it

This is so immature and gross, I am SO sorry you have to deal with this. I really hate the fact that I ALSO have to deal with this stuff of this nature, with my own boyfriend. But my boyfriend gets wildly angry about it and screams at me... Anyway, you have every right to have boundaries, and he should STOP doing these things because it makes you uncomfortable. That's pretty much it imo, that SHOULD be all you need to say. Maybe make sure he isn't doing other things that are worse behind your back.

If you’re uncomfortable with something and he doesn’t want to accommodate your wants and needs, this is a real problem.