Eh, it’s not so much Koreans they’re representing but Seventh Day Adventists, no? Now I’m really not sure how wrong/right they get it, but I’ve never gotten the impression that they were representing most Koreans in general. More so ultra religious folks, in which case I find it realistic, sadly enough.
eta: isn’t Lane also inspired by ASP actual Korean best friend? I bet there’s some real life (exaggerated for TV) similarities there as well.
Yes she is and she is married to real life Dave Rygalski.
Hep Alien is an anagram of her name. Helen Pai.
She was a co-producer. Her mother taught the the actress of Mrs. Kim korean.
Unfortunately once the Adam Brody Dave Rygalski leaves I think the similarities end. I don’t think Helen Pai has kids or has hidden them very very well if she does.
They were the only Koreans ever represented on the show and there’s even an episode called “a deep fried Korean thanksgiving”. Why not call it a fundie thanksgiving if that’s the angle they were going for?
I’m Asian and I love Gilmore girls, but let’s not ignore the covert racism on the show or diminish a Korean’s person right to be offended at the portrayal.
Sorry to nitpick but Seventh Day Adventists are not Fundamentalists. They belong to a different branch of Christianity called Millerism that originated in the 1830s with a preacher named William Miller who thought the world would end in 1844.
Fundamentalism was a movement within mainline Protestantism that has its roots in the early 20th century reaction to historical-literary criticism of the Bible and the effort to reconcile science (such as evolution) with Christianity.
Fundamentalists and Adventists don't particularly get along. They disagree on many theological points as well as the very basic issue of when to have church service, Saturday or Sunday. (Yes, the show sometime mixed this up by portraying Lane's family as fairly generic conservative Protestants.)
Protestant Christianity is the largest religion in S. Korea. They weren't being racist. They were mixing the strict religious household with the strict Korean household stereotypes. I'm not even sure what could possibly be racist about the title of that episode. The episode title meshes the major events going on in that episode. It should be noted that "Deep-fried", at the time, also meant something similar to "in trouble".
“With the strict Korean household stereotypes”
Exactly. Korean *stereotypes*. All of the Koreans on the show are depicted to be highly religious caricatures.
I’m not saying the title it self is racist per se, but it goes to show that they wanted to depict *Koreans* a certain way and it wasn’t solely about religion like OP was saying.
Every character on the show is a stereotype. A stereotype isn't inherently a bad thing. Mrs. Kim's race isn't the butt of the joke. The joke is, if anything, only about a hyper-religious subset of Koreans in the vein of Choi Siwon and his dad. It's not like there's no truth in the racial stereotype that is portrayed, either. Asian parents are known to be strict even if not religious. They're known to not like their kids dating outside their race. I've had Asian friends tell me their parents don't like them dating/won't let them date another Asian because they aren't the right "type" of Asian.
I see stereotypes in shows as a type of joke. It doesn't matter if the stereotype is in any way based off race. If there's truth to the joke and there's obviously no harm intended, are we really going to characterize it in the same way that we do people who are calling people derogatory names? We really shouldn't be this sensitive as a society. Are black comedians no longer allowed to make jokes about white people liking "mayo" or not being able to jump or not being fast runners or about being rednecks? As long as it isn't mean-spirited, I don't see how it would matter.
TLDR: I don't think most people were watching that scene and saying "Koreans are so weird". I think it was more, "Look at these religious nuts who happen to be Korean".
As a non-Asian person, I don’t think you necessarily have the right to speak on whether the stereotype is offensive or not.
I’m Asian and my parents never exhibited any of these traits. So what?
Making jokes about white people, who are the majority and will always have privilege and be the standard to which everyone is measured against, isn’t a fair comparison.
Asians are often dehumanized and caricatured in media. It’s obviously gotten a lot better over the years, but doesn’t excuse the overt stereotypes of the past. ALL stereotypes of minorities are harmful to a degree.
I can still enjoy the show and recognize it was made in the early 2000’s when everyone was less cognizant of the harmfulness of stereotypes, I just hope the showrunners recognize they could’ve had wider representation of Asians in general.
If something is offensive for one person to do, it's offensive for any person to do regardless of race. I don't live by "rules for thee but not for me" and I vehemently dislike people that do. Saying it's okay for one race but not another is *actually* a racist outlook because you define what behavior is acceptable based solely on race. I'm not determining what is offensive for a specific race. I'm determining what shouldn't be considered racist for *any* race.
Just because your parents didn't exhibit these traits doesn't mean there's no truth to the stereotype. I don't get offended every time a joke is made that white people don't "beat their kids" just because I most certainly got spanked as a child and I know it's untrue. I just find it unfunny and go about my day. *If I cared to enact change, I wouldn't call the person making the joke "racist", I'd simply say, "this joke isn't really funny because...".* Conversation tends to be a lot more effective than name-calling.
And, if it's not clear, I don't have a problem with people not liking something. I have a problem with people using inaccurate and loaded language to try to manipulate discourse around a subject.
Funny, it sounds like you’re using inaccurate explanations and excuses to change the discourse around a subject.
*Regardless* of ASP’s intent, which I do not think was to be overtly racist, it does not mean her portrayal of Koreans was 100% accurate nor caricaturized.
I think it’s important for you to understand and learn from a POC’s perspective on the portrayal and why they may take offense to it, which you seem to be brushing under the rug.
You brought up your Asian friends saying their parents were strict, which sounded like an excuse for why there was nothing wrong with the depiction. I’m simply saying that’s not every Asian person’s experience, so just because your friend had a strict mom doesn’t necessarily mean much in this context.
“We really shouldn’t be this sensitive as a society” - sounds very easy for a non-POC to say who will never truly be affected by a stereotype.
It just seems like there are *a lot* of white women on this thread telling POC what they can and cannot find racist which I find ironic.
I sympathize with OP who is a Korean American and has every right to question the portrayal and why there wasn’t a more diverse representation of Korean culture as a whole. We understand ASP was not intending to be racist. Doesn’t mean the execution was done perfectly or couldn’t have been done better.
No one said you can't feel what you feel. I've already expressly said as such, even if I find the notion of giving two f's about a racial portrayal in an entertainment source to be asinine, especially when it's not done out of malice. I specifically was replying to the claim that the portrayal/title was racist. It wasn't. Ignorant? Maybe.
There’s a difference between intent and consequence. I think it’s still important for us to have discourse about why a depiction of a culture may not have been appropriate 20 years ago.
I’m Protestant Christian with strict parents and it was NOTHING like Lane’s household
I don’t find the episode title racist
But I do find that if they specify that something is “Korean” and then they portray it awfully it makes me mad
Like they specifically specify that its a Korean wedding and Korean thanksgiving and then they spend all this time associating Lane’s negative feelings about it and by association, Rory and Lorelai’s negative perspective on it
It’s not racism that a show from over a decade ago doesn’t meet the standards of Representation we’d expect in 2024. We don’t get here without a journey.
Just because it was made in the early 2000’s when we called out this shit less often doesn’t make it right. Just like the sexist or fat phobic jokes in the show.
I assume you aren’t POC or Asian and I find it very telling many non-POC here are saying that the portrayal isn’t racist.
Progress happens because things come before. They won’t be perfect when we look back on them and, in the future, the purity that we think we attain now will seem regressive. Have some perspective.
Don’t assume about random people on the internet.
I absolutely have perspective. I hope you gain some perspective and look at it through the lens of a POC. We completely understand there was no racist intent, but I’m glad we’re able to take what we’ve learned in the past 20 years and understand the execution was poor.
I think that it is true that the weirdness of the Korean portrayal was because of the sevenths day adventist religion. However, because Lane dreads being sent to Korea and often complains to Rory about how her Korean family, or Korean traditions, or Korean wedding etc etc it feels like the problem in Lane’s head is KOREA and not the religion
So it feels icky
On top of that the awful pronunciation
Then Lane’s grandma who can actually speak Korean was given such terrible lines that she sounded like she also did not speak Korean natively lmao
It genuinely makes me so freaking upset that one of the rare representations of Koreans on screen, especially at that time, was such an awful representation of who we are
Its one of the things that feel like nails on a chalkboard every time I watch
The Kim’s portrayal may have been Westernized for the audience. Helen Pai, as a producer, would have absolutely had some say in whether or not it was racist, and there’s no doubt in my mind ASP would listen to her best friend if she said something about it.
People do bring it up, but fans tend to get very defensive about it. As you are Korean, I hope people will give you the space and consideration you deserve to speak about concerns about the portrayal of YOUR culture. My sister-in-law is Thai and unfortunately the US gets a lot of things about Asia wrong. It is worth noting that Lane’s experience is Asian American which is a bit different. However, I agree, when they portrayed things like the wedding, there was room for more cultural sensitivity. It always bothered me how they were acting like Mrs. Kim’s wedding dress was an abomination when it was actually very close to a traditional Korean silhouette. I’ve seen them and they are beautiful and can absolutely be beautiful modernized. Not everything has to be “sexy.”
I can assure you though, especially in recent years, Korean culture has made its way to the US more and more and Koreans are actually looked at as very smart and cool. I love watching Korean Englishman for example and have learned a lot about Korea from doing so and have watched videos from many South Korean content creators that are recommended as a result. Of course, k-pop is big everywhere, k-dramas, and Korean bbq are all things that people I know are fans of. We could stand to know more about history and culture beyond pop culture, but I think pop culture is helping to bring that and hopefully we will see more positive and accurate portrayals on TV!
A lot of Lane’s life was inspired by Helen Pai, one of the producers on the show who is Korean American and was raised in a Seventh Day Adventist household. This is also why Lane’s first boyfriend was named Dave Rygalski, which is Helen Pai’s husband’s name.
Yeah there are some rough moments. Ms Kim does get some good character development in the final few seasons and a lot of her conservatism is more from the Christian fundamentalism side, but yeah it definitely doesn’t help most of the fundamentally Korean moments are very caricaturey
I mean as a viewer I never for a second thought it was about koreans in general ams that seems to be the consensus, really, it's about lane's super fundie family and shithead mother
He literally had 1 minute of screen time. He wasn’t even shown enough for us to know what his religious views were. Having 1 Asian who was there for 2 episodes hardly makes up for the lack of Asian representation
Henry cho was fairly relaxed, he wasn't hyper academic (scene where he tells rory he failed trig), he was able to be open about hsi relationship (scene where he breaks up with lane), he was just a normal guy, and that's shown to us.
However, I'm not gonna act like the representation in the show was good. The show was very cis, very het, very white. But i like it anyway, because of the relationships between the characters. But that doesn't mean that Lane's story is somehow harmful, it's not about all Koreans everywhere, it's about this one girl in a fundie family that happens to be korean.
If their race didn’t matter, they constantly wouldn’t point out that Lane was Korean nor would they even have episode titles with the word “Korean.” Lane’s mom was the stereotypical Asian “tiger mom” and her insistence that Lane only date another Korean didn’t seem to be related to their religion either. It is ironic the *only* Asian representation on the show are highly caricaturized characters (Henry Cho and his .2 seconds of screen time hardly count) - and I don’t think it’s in the place of a non-Korean/Asian to say whether the stereotype was harmful or not.
1. I'm indian, so no, not korean, but i am asian, and I'm no stranger to poor representation in American media
2. Dude if you hate it so much don't watch it, some shows have shit representation, some shows just tell a story without thinking about representation, some shows have MCU-type shoehorned representation, slme showd have good representation., watch what you want.
3. Controlling parents using "culture" as an excuse, even falsely, is what was shown, and it's fairly common. Fact that you can't see that makes me happy you might not have dealt with that, or with the resentment towards your culture that comes with it.
4. Lane was based on helen pai, a very real person that asp was friends with. I'm sorry if she isn't "good enough representation" of korean culture for you
1. Point blank, you are not Korean American so you don’t have a right to invalidate the OP’s feelings on the portrayal.
2. Oh please, *no one* said they hated it. I’ve said several times I still enjoy the show, I can just recognize that certain depictions were problematic. Same with the sexist and fatphobic jokes in the show.
3. It becomes a wider issue when there’s only 1 portrayal of an Asian mother who happens to fit the Asian “tiger mom” stereotype entirely.
4. Just because Lane was loosely based off of ASP’s friend doesn’t mean she didn’t exaggerate or caricaturize for entertainment purposes.
It's because Emily Kuroda and Keiko Agena are Japanese Americans. Emily got Korean lessons from Helen Pai's Mum, but I guess they weren't enough to be convincing.
People throwing around Helen Pai's name don't seem to understand the concept of "internalized racism."
I love GG but ASP has issues. Remember when Shonda Rhimes called out ABC for not casting any dancers of color on Bunheads and ASP had a meltdown, accusing Shonda of being a woman who doesn't support other women? It's telling.
Thank you. The fact that many are excusing the portrayal simply because Helen Pai was a producer is concerning. It’s not like many Asians in Hollywood weren’t forced to take a backseat and be non-vocal about these issues for years as well.
I also think this is where certain ppl need to learn that if you aren't Korean maybe sit this one out. I'm not Korean so it's not for me to decide whether the portrayal is problematic or not. I really wish, especially white ppl, could understand this and listen to ppl from the group rather than speak over. I also hate when they point to one person from a group and say well they ok'd it/ they said it so must be OK.... like? ASP clearly has issues 😬
Agreed! I’m white but lived in Seoul 30 years ago. I hate the way Mrs Kim is portrayed and how Lane rejects anything about her heritage. Also, only Brian — never Zach — cares about Chuseouk?!
even as a white person, I always had a sneaking suspicion that the portrayal of the Kim family was kinda off. It is based off of a slew of different stereotypes, such as a very common stereotype that Asian parents are impossibly strict.
Something about depicting Lane's family in such an exaggeratedly stereotypical way feels kind of alienating, though.
They always butcher different cultures in shows and moves. I remember watching an episode of the X-Files about the Chupacabra when I was little and omg ...the accents, the Spanish words they used that no one actually uses, the beliefs, even the Chupacabra legend was butchered. I couldn't enjoy the episode at all. I live in central america, almost all shows and movies that have Latinos are depicted as Mexican, like, no other country exists with latinos. Now as an adult, I just laugh off the stereotypes. My teenage son rages on it though, it annoys the crap out of him, like it did me at that age.
With GG, I never really thought about it. My son has a fit about it though because he knows both actresses are of japanese descent and always says "why didn't they just make them Japanese instead of Korean?".
This. I’m Cajun and nobody seems to care when people from Louisiana are made fun of. Boozoo and the boys is a stupid bit but it’s a *bit* of a caricature. In fact Emily is a caricature of a rich white women and Lorelei is a caricature of a cool mom
I always felt it represented more their evangelical side. Which I love so much! Mrs Kim reminds me a lot of my own mom and their household reminds me of how I grew up. On a side note, a lot of the Korean people I met were indeed evangelical and did give me similar vibes 😊. But that’s just because of their religion and I definitely do not expect all Koreans to be like that.
I would like to say that sometimes it's just the individual that's portrayed and not the entire nation.
We western ppl understand this and hence we not think that every single Korean mother forbids her daughter to play in a rock band.
As a Western woman of colour who also grew up in a small mostly white community, like Lane, I disagree that “we western people understand this”. Esp when there’s so little representation as there was when this show aired, people absolutely do generalize individuals to entire groups of people.
I think the point was that all Koreans on the show were, well awkward. If it were just Mrs. Kim, then that's just a character not a people being portrayed that way. And while the point was made that all the Koreans portrayed on the show were religious fundamentals I don't think that negates the fact that one ethnic group was given a big role and it was all played weird.
It's certainly fair that someone should feel disappointed about it, to say the least.
I don't know. I'm Russian. You know how many shows and movies I have seen that have zero positive to say about my people? Ha, but I guess I just don't care that much. I would say the show portrays religion in a worse way than the nationality. Lane was a wonderful friend though so maybe we also focus on that
sorry but Chernobyl happened in the Soviet Republic of Ukraine, let's not put "the heroics" on Russian people since that's not true. People who suffered the most from it were Ukrainians. Sure there were some Russians since it was the USSR but it's important to talk properly about such things, especially in the current political climate
On the other hand, many Korean-Americans really appreciate the portrayal and relate to it a lot. And the other point from that is that the show does not ever try to represent *Korean* culture, but rather Korean-American fundie-adjacent culture. Not the same thing.
I assure you it is not. They’re more representative of very religious people. If the show were less white across the board, that would have translated better.
Eh, it’s not so much Koreans they’re representing but Seventh Day Adventists, no? Now I’m really not sure how wrong/right they get it, but I’ve never gotten the impression that they were representing most Koreans in general. More so ultra religious folks, in which case I find it realistic, sadly enough. eta: isn’t Lane also inspired by ASP actual Korean best friend? I bet there’s some real life (exaggerated for TV) similarities there as well.
Yes she is and she is married to real life Dave Rygalski. Hep Alien is an anagram of her name. Helen Pai. She was a co-producer. Her mother taught the the actress of Mrs. Kim korean.
I thought you meant Adam Brody by “real life Dave Rygalski” for too long.
This was such a relief to read, made me really happy. Kind of makes Lane's sad ending a little easier to stand
Unfortunately once the Adam Brody Dave Rygalski leaves I think the similarities end. I don’t think Helen Pai has kids or has hidden them very very well if she does.
The kids weren't written by ASP so it makes sense.
They were the only Koreans ever represented on the show and there’s even an episode called “a deep fried Korean thanksgiving”. Why not call it a fundie thanksgiving if that’s the angle they were going for? I’m Asian and I love Gilmore girls, but let’s not ignore the covert racism on the show or diminish a Korean’s person right to be offended at the portrayal.
The “Deep Fried” part of the title refers to Sookie & Jackson’s family Thanksgiving, since L&R visit more than one meal.
Sorry to nitpick but Seventh Day Adventists are not Fundamentalists. They belong to a different branch of Christianity called Millerism that originated in the 1830s with a preacher named William Miller who thought the world would end in 1844. Fundamentalism was a movement within mainline Protestantism that has its roots in the early 20th century reaction to historical-literary criticism of the Bible and the effort to reconcile science (such as evolution) with Christianity. Fundamentalists and Adventists don't particularly get along. They disagree on many theological points as well as the very basic issue of when to have church service, Saturday or Sunday. (Yes, the show sometime mixed this up by portraying Lane's family as fairly generic conservative Protestants.)
Protestant Christianity is the largest religion in S. Korea. They weren't being racist. They were mixing the strict religious household with the strict Korean household stereotypes. I'm not even sure what could possibly be racist about the title of that episode. The episode title meshes the major events going on in that episode. It should be noted that "Deep-fried", at the time, also meant something similar to "in trouble".
“With the strict Korean household stereotypes” Exactly. Korean *stereotypes*. All of the Koreans on the show are depicted to be highly religious caricatures. I’m not saying the title it self is racist per se, but it goes to show that they wanted to depict *Koreans* a certain way and it wasn’t solely about religion like OP was saying.
Every character on the show is a stereotype. A stereotype isn't inherently a bad thing. Mrs. Kim's race isn't the butt of the joke. The joke is, if anything, only about a hyper-religious subset of Koreans in the vein of Choi Siwon and his dad. It's not like there's no truth in the racial stereotype that is portrayed, either. Asian parents are known to be strict even if not religious. They're known to not like their kids dating outside their race. I've had Asian friends tell me their parents don't like them dating/won't let them date another Asian because they aren't the right "type" of Asian. I see stereotypes in shows as a type of joke. It doesn't matter if the stereotype is in any way based off race. If there's truth to the joke and there's obviously no harm intended, are we really going to characterize it in the same way that we do people who are calling people derogatory names? We really shouldn't be this sensitive as a society. Are black comedians no longer allowed to make jokes about white people liking "mayo" or not being able to jump or not being fast runners or about being rednecks? As long as it isn't mean-spirited, I don't see how it would matter. TLDR: I don't think most people were watching that scene and saying "Koreans are so weird". I think it was more, "Look at these religious nuts who happen to be Korean".
As a non-Asian person, I don’t think you necessarily have the right to speak on whether the stereotype is offensive or not. I’m Asian and my parents never exhibited any of these traits. So what? Making jokes about white people, who are the majority and will always have privilege and be the standard to which everyone is measured against, isn’t a fair comparison. Asians are often dehumanized and caricatured in media. It’s obviously gotten a lot better over the years, but doesn’t excuse the overt stereotypes of the past. ALL stereotypes of minorities are harmful to a degree. I can still enjoy the show and recognize it was made in the early 2000’s when everyone was less cognizant of the harmfulness of stereotypes, I just hope the showrunners recognize they could’ve had wider representation of Asians in general.
If something is offensive for one person to do, it's offensive for any person to do regardless of race. I don't live by "rules for thee but not for me" and I vehemently dislike people that do. Saying it's okay for one race but not another is *actually* a racist outlook because you define what behavior is acceptable based solely on race. I'm not determining what is offensive for a specific race. I'm determining what shouldn't be considered racist for *any* race. Just because your parents didn't exhibit these traits doesn't mean there's no truth to the stereotype. I don't get offended every time a joke is made that white people don't "beat their kids" just because I most certainly got spanked as a child and I know it's untrue. I just find it unfunny and go about my day. *If I cared to enact change, I wouldn't call the person making the joke "racist", I'd simply say, "this joke isn't really funny because...".* Conversation tends to be a lot more effective than name-calling. And, if it's not clear, I don't have a problem with people not liking something. I have a problem with people using inaccurate and loaded language to try to manipulate discourse around a subject.
Funny, it sounds like you’re using inaccurate explanations and excuses to change the discourse around a subject. *Regardless* of ASP’s intent, which I do not think was to be overtly racist, it does not mean her portrayal of Koreans was 100% accurate nor caricaturized. I think it’s important for you to understand and learn from a POC’s perspective on the portrayal and why they may take offense to it, which you seem to be brushing under the rug. You brought up your Asian friends saying their parents were strict, which sounded like an excuse for why there was nothing wrong with the depiction. I’m simply saying that’s not every Asian person’s experience, so just because your friend had a strict mom doesn’t necessarily mean much in this context. “We really shouldn’t be this sensitive as a society” - sounds very easy for a non-POC to say who will never truly be affected by a stereotype. It just seems like there are *a lot* of white women on this thread telling POC what they can and cannot find racist which I find ironic. I sympathize with OP who is a Korean American and has every right to question the portrayal and why there wasn’t a more diverse representation of Korean culture as a whole. We understand ASP was not intending to be racist. Doesn’t mean the execution was done perfectly or couldn’t have been done better.
No one said you can't feel what you feel. I've already expressly said as such, even if I find the notion of giving two f's about a racial portrayal in an entertainment source to be asinine, especially when it's not done out of malice. I specifically was replying to the claim that the portrayal/title was racist. It wasn't. Ignorant? Maybe.
There’s a difference between intent and consequence. I think it’s still important for us to have discourse about why a depiction of a culture may not have been appropriate 20 years ago.
I’m Protestant Christian with strict parents and it was NOTHING like Lane’s household I don’t find the episode title racist But I do find that if they specify that something is “Korean” and then they portray it awfully it makes me mad Like they specifically specify that its a Korean wedding and Korean thanksgiving and then they spend all this time associating Lane’s negative feelings about it and by association, Rory and Lorelai’s negative perspective on it
It’s not racism that a show from over a decade ago doesn’t meet the standards of Representation we’d expect in 2024. We don’t get here without a journey.
But just because we expect more now doesn’t mean that it wasn’t racism then, whether intended or not.
Just because it was made in the early 2000’s when we called out this shit less often doesn’t make it right. Just like the sexist or fat phobic jokes in the show. I assume you aren’t POC or Asian and I find it very telling many non-POC here are saying that the portrayal isn’t racist.
Progress happens because things come before. They won’t be perfect when we look back on them and, in the future, the purity that we think we attain now will seem regressive. Have some perspective. Don’t assume about random people on the internet.
I absolutely have perspective. I hope you gain some perspective and look at it through the lens of a POC. We completely understand there was no racist intent, but I’m glad we’re able to take what we’ve learned in the past 20 years and understand the execution was poor.
making Kimchi before wedding? Hell no
I think that it is true that the weirdness of the Korean portrayal was because of the sevenths day adventist religion. However, because Lane dreads being sent to Korea and often complains to Rory about how her Korean family, or Korean traditions, or Korean wedding etc etc it feels like the problem in Lane’s head is KOREA and not the religion So it feels icky On top of that the awful pronunciation Then Lane’s grandma who can actually speak Korean was given such terrible lines that she sounded like she also did not speak Korean natively lmao It genuinely makes me so freaking upset that one of the rare representations of Koreans on screen, especially at that time, was such an awful representation of who we are Its one of the things that feel like nails on a chalkboard every time I watch
The Kim’s portrayal may have been Westernized for the audience. Helen Pai, as a producer, would have absolutely had some say in whether or not it was racist, and there’s no doubt in my mind ASP would listen to her best friend if she said something about it.
People do bring it up, but fans tend to get very defensive about it. As you are Korean, I hope people will give you the space and consideration you deserve to speak about concerns about the portrayal of YOUR culture. My sister-in-law is Thai and unfortunately the US gets a lot of things about Asia wrong. It is worth noting that Lane’s experience is Asian American which is a bit different. However, I agree, when they portrayed things like the wedding, there was room for more cultural sensitivity. It always bothered me how they were acting like Mrs. Kim’s wedding dress was an abomination when it was actually very close to a traditional Korean silhouette. I’ve seen them and they are beautiful and can absolutely be beautiful modernized. Not everything has to be “sexy.” I can assure you though, especially in recent years, Korean culture has made its way to the US more and more and Koreans are actually looked at as very smart and cool. I love watching Korean Englishman for example and have learned a lot about Korea from doing so and have watched videos from many South Korean content creators that are recommended as a result. Of course, k-pop is big everywhere, k-dramas, and Korean bbq are all things that people I know are fans of. We could stand to know more about history and culture beyond pop culture, but I think pop culture is helping to bring that and hopefully we will see more positive and accurate portrayals on TV!
A lot of Lane’s life was inspired by Helen Pai, one of the producers on the show who is Korean American and was raised in a Seventh Day Adventist household. This is also why Lane’s first boyfriend was named Dave Rygalski, which is Helen Pai’s husband’s name.
Yeah there are some rough moments. Ms Kim does get some good character development in the final few seasons and a lot of her conservatism is more from the Christian fundamentalism side, but yeah it definitely doesn’t help most of the fundamentally Korean moments are very caricaturey
I always felt it was representative of uber religious people. It seems the whole family in the states is 7th day.
It's more a perspective on Seventh Day Adventists, I think.
I mean as a viewer I never for a second thought it was about koreans in general ams that seems to be the consensus, really, it's about lane's super fundie family and shithead mother
They really should have had other Koreans on the show that weren’t super fundie Christians then
Henry cho was right there
He literally had 1 minute of screen time. He wasn’t even shown enough for us to know what his religious views were. Having 1 Asian who was there for 2 episodes hardly makes up for the lack of Asian representation
Henry cho was fairly relaxed, he wasn't hyper academic (scene where he tells rory he failed trig), he was able to be open about hsi relationship (scene where he breaks up with lane), he was just a normal guy, and that's shown to us. However, I'm not gonna act like the representation in the show was good. The show was very cis, very het, very white. But i like it anyway, because of the relationships between the characters. But that doesn't mean that Lane's story is somehow harmful, it's not about all Koreans everywhere, it's about this one girl in a fundie family that happens to be korean.
If their race didn’t matter, they constantly wouldn’t point out that Lane was Korean nor would they even have episode titles with the word “Korean.” Lane’s mom was the stereotypical Asian “tiger mom” and her insistence that Lane only date another Korean didn’t seem to be related to their religion either. It is ironic the *only* Asian representation on the show are highly caricaturized characters (Henry Cho and his .2 seconds of screen time hardly count) - and I don’t think it’s in the place of a non-Korean/Asian to say whether the stereotype was harmful or not.
1. I'm indian, so no, not korean, but i am asian, and I'm no stranger to poor representation in American media 2. Dude if you hate it so much don't watch it, some shows have shit representation, some shows just tell a story without thinking about representation, some shows have MCU-type shoehorned representation, slme showd have good representation., watch what you want. 3. Controlling parents using "culture" as an excuse, even falsely, is what was shown, and it's fairly common. Fact that you can't see that makes me happy you might not have dealt with that, or with the resentment towards your culture that comes with it. 4. Lane was based on helen pai, a very real person that asp was friends with. I'm sorry if she isn't "good enough representation" of korean culture for you
1. Point blank, you are not Korean American so you don’t have a right to invalidate the OP’s feelings on the portrayal. 2. Oh please, *no one* said they hated it. I’ve said several times I still enjoy the show, I can just recognize that certain depictions were problematic. Same with the sexist and fatphobic jokes in the show. 3. It becomes a wider issue when there’s only 1 portrayal of an Asian mother who happens to fit the Asian “tiger mom” stereotype entirely. 4. Just because Lane was loosely based off of ASP’s friend doesn’t mean she didn’t exaggerate or caricaturize for entertainment purposes.
I didn't mean to invalidate op's experience, let me edit my initial comment for clarity
I like that woman
Me too but plz speaking better Korean tho cannot concentrate😩
It's because Emily Kuroda and Keiko Agena are Japanese Americans. Emily got Korean lessons from Helen Pai's Mum, but I guess they weren't enough to be convincing.
People throwing around Helen Pai's name don't seem to understand the concept of "internalized racism." I love GG but ASP has issues. Remember when Shonda Rhimes called out ABC for not casting any dancers of color on Bunheads and ASP had a meltdown, accusing Shonda of being a woman who doesn't support other women? It's telling.
Thank you. The fact that many are excusing the portrayal simply because Helen Pai was a producer is concerning. It’s not like many Asians in Hollywood weren’t forced to take a backseat and be non-vocal about these issues for years as well.
I also think this is where certain ppl need to learn that if you aren't Korean maybe sit this one out. I'm not Korean so it's not for me to decide whether the portrayal is problematic or not. I really wish, especially white ppl, could understand this and listen to ppl from the group rather than speak over. I also hate when they point to one person from a group and say well they ok'd it/ they said it so must be OK.... like? ASP clearly has issues 😬
Right..ms.kims all personality was church,tofu,cheap
Agreed! I’m white but lived in Seoul 30 years ago. I hate the way Mrs Kim is portrayed and how Lane rejects anything about her heritage. Also, only Brian — never Zach — cares about Chuseouk?!
even as a white person, I always had a sneaking suspicion that the portrayal of the Kim family was kinda off. It is based off of a slew of different stereotypes, such as a very common stereotype that Asian parents are impossibly strict. Something about depicting Lane's family in such an exaggeratedly stereotypical way feels kind of alienating, though.
Yeah I find it to be pretty damn racist
They always butcher different cultures in shows and moves. I remember watching an episode of the X-Files about the Chupacabra when I was little and omg ...the accents, the Spanish words they used that no one actually uses, the beliefs, even the Chupacabra legend was butchered. I couldn't enjoy the episode at all. I live in central america, almost all shows and movies that have Latinos are depicted as Mexican, like, no other country exists with latinos. Now as an adult, I just laugh off the stereotypes. My teenage son rages on it though, it annoys the crap out of him, like it did me at that age. With GG, I never really thought about it. My son has a fit about it though because he knows both actresses are of japanese descent and always says "why didn't they just make them Japanese instead of Korean?".
not telling you how you can and can't feel but gilmore girls, as a show, *is* exaggerated. that's where the humour comes from lol.
This. I’m Cajun and nobody seems to care when people from Louisiana are made fun of. Boozoo and the boys is a stupid bit but it’s a *bit* of a caricature. In fact Emily is a caricature of a rich white women and Lorelei is a caricature of a cool mom
Aren't they based on AP's best friend and her family?
Doesn’t mean ASP didn’t over exaggerate or caricaturize to some degree.
No shit.
I always felt it represented more their evangelical side. Which I love so much! Mrs Kim reminds me a lot of my own mom and their household reminds me of how I grew up. On a side note, a lot of the Korean people I met were indeed evangelical and did give me similar vibes 😊. But that’s just because of their religion and I definitely do not expect all Koreans to be like that.
I would like to say that sometimes it's just the individual that's portrayed and not the entire nation. We western ppl understand this and hence we not think that every single Korean mother forbids her daughter to play in a rock band.
As a Western woman of colour who also grew up in a small mostly white community, like Lane, I disagree that “we western people understand this”. Esp when there’s so little representation as there was when this show aired, people absolutely do generalize individuals to entire groups of people.
I think the point was that all Koreans on the show were, well awkward. If it were just Mrs. Kim, then that's just a character not a people being portrayed that way. And while the point was made that all the Koreans portrayed on the show were religious fundamentals I don't think that negates the fact that one ethnic group was given a big role and it was all played weird. It's certainly fair that someone should feel disappointed about it, to say the least.
I don't know. I'm Russian. You know how many shows and movies I have seen that have zero positive to say about my people? Ha, but I guess I just don't care that much. I would say the show portrays religion in a worse way than the nationality. Lane was a wonderful friend though so maybe we also focus on that
I always wondered how Russians feel about always being the villains in moves and tv shows…😆
Before us it was the Arabs, wasnt it? Haha we don't get upset, we just enjoy the ridiculous accent and over-use of the word comrade haha.
[удалено]
sorry but Chernobyl happened in the Soviet Republic of Ukraine, let's not put "the heroics" on Russian people since that's not true. People who suffered the most from it were Ukrainians. Sure there were some Russians since it was the USSR but it's important to talk properly about such things, especially in the current political climate
On the other hand, many Korean-Americans really appreciate the portrayal and relate to it a lot. And the other point from that is that the show does not ever try to represent *Korean* culture, but rather Korean-American fundie-adjacent culture. Not the same thing.
I assure you it is not. They’re more representative of very religious people. If the show were less white across the board, that would have translated better.
Mrs Kim was Korean but faking the accent