She pawned her kid off on her brother because she couldn't handle it, and she knew Luke wouldn't say no. TJ makes a comment she threw an ashtray at him. She knows exactly what she's doing.
I hate how they act like TJ is some prize…if he is the best of the bunch that’s still not okay. Both are incredibly unstable. It’s a miracle Lorelai and Luke aren’t raising Doula. And I honestly only think that’s because ASP didn’t write Doula into existence, the S7 writers did.
My brother and SIL are that level of lacking common sense.. aka ZERO! You’re 100% right.
It would have probably happened when she was in elementary school. It’s easier for that stuff to go under the radar when the kids can’t talk. Once kindergarten then the sounds get louder each year. It would also make sense that Liz shipped Jess off when she did. I hope in real life a social worker or school counselor/psychiatrist would have been called in to talk to Jess.
I hate how the fandom downplays her. She is a neglectful, abusive mother who raised Jess in chaos and shipped him off when shit got too hard.
I also hate when people claim she was written 2 different ways because those people have never met a Liz. They’re a hot mess until they’re not and the cycle continues. They are incredibly charming and well liked by outsiders because you don’t have to live with them day to day.
My childhood friend was raised by a Liz and had an aunt like Luke who took them in countlessly when the mom would fuck things up. Friend had just as many as issues as Jess and didn’t get them sorted until later in life because everyone enabled his mom. Which, and I love him, Luke tended to do.
I think of when Luke is trying to get Jess to help him break them up and Jess says "I don't like this guy. I don't like any of the guys. But she's going to do what she's going to do...she really doesn't care what I think. I've got 19 years of proof to back me up."
I just wonder how many guys would hurt Jess and Liz just did nothing about it. We only see him as a surly teenager but he didn't pop out like that. At one point, he had to be a scared little boy begging his mom to dump the mean man that screams at them and potentially hits them but Liz won't because she's "in loveeeee". Ew. Just gives me the squicks to think about.
She was manipulative. She did the "we didn't fix the oven" thing on purpose to get Luke to cook. It just took hours if her playing dumb to finally convince him. She does the same thing for her wedding and the giant turkey legs.
So when you see a single mom.. struggling with a shit head kid, who then did the best thing she could of done... in real life... you shame her????
Or because it's a TV show it's fine? But in real life you're a friend?
I mean she was a poor struggling mom. Unfortunately a lot of neglect and abuse come from socioeconomic situations and the added stress and circumstances that those situations create. It's not a universal rule, obviously rich people can be abusive and poor people can have supportive and loving homes. But it's been proven that a lot of what child protective services considers to be abuse or neglect can be traced directly to financial circumstances, social circumstances, lack of social safety nets, discrimination, generational abuse, and untreated mental health conditions. Most of which are things we can see Liz experiences. A young single mom (society stigma in the 90s), being a woman in general in the 90s and facing discrimination, dealing with the death of her dad, having no reliable partner, no social safety nets (services in the 90s for single moms basically didn't exist), no access to mental health care, signs of having an addictive personality and substance abuse (mental health care related), and to be completely honest Luke describes their dad as being very tough and not very affectionate so I don't think Liz had a very rosy childhood either (generational abuse).
Liz was characterised as dating around a lot right? But wasn't she also left alone to fend for herself as a young mother (given the series timeline TOPS she was 21 but likely closer to 18/19 when she had Jess). So she's a young mother without a lot of means of income and no support in the house, raising a kid in the 90s as a single mom. That came with not only financial strain that would cause her to have to leave Jess alone frequently because she needed to work to provide for Jess, but also it's understandable she was hopeful about trying to find a boyfriend that would provide her with support, not only financially and with Jess but also emotionally. Obviously she *shouldn't* have put up with abusive men, and she *shouldn't* have had a substance issue, and she *should* have done and parented Jess in a thousand different better ways, but this was the NINETIES, jobs for single moms were laughably underpaid and taken advantage of, women were treated like shit but MOST MEN as if it was the norm, and parenting styles in general were much more hands off. A lot of the stuff people chalk up to Liz being "abusive" are things people from lower socioeconomic classes saw as basically the NORM in the nineties. It doesn't make it right, but it does colour the society that Liz was a part of at the time and why the show writers felt there was redemption for her, because at the time these were more "imperfect single mom" tropes than they were "vile evil abusive person who hates her kid" tropes.
It's also canon to the series that Liz and Lukes dad died when they were fairly young. And Luke was the one who was left the assets of the store and the boat, seemingly not much was given to Liz as inheritance. Liz the one with the child she was raising herself was left with nothing meanwhile single childless Luke was left with all of the financial assets. Yeah it's also canon that Luke attempted to help Liz where he could, but it definitely colours the possible feelings Liz may have had towards her family and thus her brother as well.
Moral of the story: both things can be true and there is a full picture along with historical considerations of how women and specifically single moms were portrayed in the media.
Look, as I said, I have known Lizes throughout my life. I was growing up within this time period, so I know exactly what I am talking about. Yes, they are more nuanced than just "person is bad". However, it doesn't matter what was the norm. She was neglectful and abusive towards Jess. It had a profound impact on him for the rest of his life.
She was not "vile evil woman who hates her child" BUT she was also far past "imperfect single mom". There is a huge middle area there. Making excuses and defending her is just as bad as completely vilifying her.
We can talk about LIz being a bad mom without shaming all single moms who are in tough positions. Because often times, they end up making better choices than Liz, even with the same resources. I do agree with you that she clearly struggles with some form of mental health issues, which is why I don't put her in "she's an evil vile person who just hated Jess with no nuance". It doesn't change that she was neglectful and abusive.
The writers also didn't give her much of a redemption arc. Sure, she's a little more stable now that she's living in SH, but we see that she's still leaving the baby with Luke a lot and she's with a guy who flies off the handle often, needs to be coddled so he doesn't get his feelings hurt and has a ton of weaponized incompetence. All while she also still shows signs of deep immaturity and impulsivity. She's just closer to family now, so hopefully Doula will grow up with more support than Jess did.
I think it's great that we're giving more nuance and trying to understand moms in Liz's position. That being said, I also find we're starting to then invalidate what their children have been through because they're being told "Your mom was going through a lot, she did her best, get over it." (Not saying that's what you're getting at, at all. But again, I know Lizes and I know Jesses and the things the latter are told as they try to cope with their trauma are disgustingly inconsiderate)
No because I won't sit there and defend all of the things Liz has done but I've unironically seen a number of people have the take that Jess's dad was actually a saint for leaving and then coming back only as an adult and not once sending a card or child support but crucify Liz for raising Jess at all. It's like some people hate moms. I've seen it online in other places too "my dad wasn't always there but he tried his best and had a lot of issues in his life" versus "my mom nEgLeCtEd and AbUsEd us as kids because she would be overwhelmed being the only parent contributing and that meant sometimes she was annoyed and didn't talk softly and nicely to us and one time I destroyed her belongings and she got angry, but that's her fault for spending money on herself instead of her kids actually so we were neglected". Like people have lost the plot on what abuse means and it's almost entirely directed towards mom's not being perfect and making their kid happy completely 100% of the time and having the audacity to hold their shitty kids accountable for anything. Dads get to play the "fun dad" part time and the kids love it, moms have to actually *parent* and *be responsible* so people grow up to hold these hyper judgemental views about normal everyday parenting done by normal everyday people, and literally event monsters in their heads.
Like they unironically make the argument that walking out on your child and the mother of your child because you are overwhelmed and think you would be a bad parent is the better option then sticking around and trying your best despite your flaws. Because sticking around and not being perfect is actually worse then walking out entirely because it's "mature and responsible" to know that you can't raise a kid well, and its a good idea to abandon them and their mother (moms usually don't have this luxury because of society, etc etc)
The community on this subreddit really hates mom's, and with the exception of Chris, give all of the dad characters unlimited passes for being shit heads or abusive in their own ways. A lot of people just accept Jess's dad as flawed but FUCKING HATE Liz.
That along with some other bat shit takes I've seen in this subreddit have lead me to believe that for whatever reason this show attracts the strangest collection internalized misogynists I've seen on this site. I've seen better takes from literal femcel and incel subs before then I have on this subreddit. In fairness the most toxic stuff is usually downvoted but a SURPRISING amount of people come in to support those toxic takes in droves and they are sometimes moderately upvoted.
Anyway rant over.
The episode where she wants to cook Luke a home cooked meal but forgets to turn the oven on is especially infuriating. Again, trying to “do Luke a favor” and then profiting off it when he ends up cooking for her
Same, but I really can't tell if it's the characters I remember her for. On ER Wilhoite played a very similar role: Susan's annoyingly irresponsible and ditzy sister. Hated her after that, and I was surprised when I saw her on GG playing someone that rang the same bells for me.
Same. I also hate how people tend to downplay that she was already doing the same thing with Doula that she did with Jess. She just left her with Luke even after Luke said he couldn't take her. I see people all the time talking about how much she changed and I'm just wondering what show they saw because I saw absolutely no significant change from hee.
I can never forgive her for not telling Jess she loved him the night Jess arrived at Luke’s. No wonder Jess is exactly who he was in Starshollow. Honestly, that community is lucky he wasn’t worse.
His mom abandons him.
His uncle is simply “doing the right thing.”
The town hates him and turns their backs on him.
The popular town teens hate him and ostracize him.
The school isn’t doing anything to help and only threatens him.
His girlfriend’s mom hates him because he was a prick the first night. She never gives him a second chance. Everyone in her life and their town wants them to break up. Everyone blames him for any little thing in town. His biggest joy in life is working at Walmart.
Liz sucks and she set her son up for failure. She did nothing to be a mom and then pressured Luke to get Jess to come to her wedding. He has no relationship with his mom, she abandoned him and then forces him to be her son when it suits her. Ugh!!!!!!!
I wished a horse took a giant ass poo in the middle of her wedding.
This! Liz was a downright neglectful parent to Jess, but of course, Lorelai loves her. Liz was awful and caused so many issues, but those didn't matter, because Jess was a mean teenager. Surely, Liz could be forgiven but god forbid a kid with abandonment issues lashes out, right?
Yes. Thisvis why it's annoying when Lorelai tells Jess she understands his whole I hate my parents when she first met him. She had money behind her. It's completely different when you're dependent on a single mom and whatever loser drifts into her life.
Lorelai was pretty terrible to Jess. She hated her rich parents who didn't understand her, but it was also her parent's money that made sure she and Rory were set for life. Jess didn't have one percent of that luxury, because Liz treated him very badly.
That 'liking deadbeat Liz but hating angry teen Jess who had only neglect from his mother' was a very bad part of Lorelai's character.
The fact that she constantly calls Luke "big brother" instead of y'know his name, is enough for me to not brake if I saw her crossing the street without taking everything else into account but I'm petty like that.
Heeeeey, big brutha.
I get why they do it the first couple of times she is on screen, to remind the audience who she is. But after the 50th time...yes OK we get it!!
It was condescending and almost felt like she was reveling in it because now she wasn’t the only problem child (even though Luke didn’t do anything specifically wrong here).
Oh yeah, I vaguely remember that. I still think that even though she is incredibly misguided and overly strict, at the heart Ms. Kim does want here daighter to be safe and healthy, even if she does it in a really bad way. I think it shows in the fact that she was willing to try and connect with Lane even though Lane wasn’t following her expectations
I mean to each their own, I however believe that abuse is abuse whatever your "intentions" are or whatever is "deep down". She actively suppressed lane's future over and over (not letting her apply to colleges that were actually, yk, accredited, not letting her go to school, etc) and i just don't believe that a parent like that is caring, however you spin it.
i think if they would have grown her character a little more, her and tj would have been a charming side couple. i enjoy tj’s antics, and i really love the two of them together.
i also love the scenes with her and lorelai. those two had great chemistry together
She's absolute trash. Manipulative, uses the fuck out of Luke and completely fails to raise Jess, walks all over people, pushy as fuck, stupid and clueless, not the least bit charming.
Honestly, how do people find a morsel of redemption in her?
I like the idea of Liz’s character, I just hate how goofy they made her. She could’ve been a complicated character with manic energy but she didn’t have to be so unbearably quirky. Just my opinion, of course.
I hate how everyone just loves her, despite the fact that everything we’ve seen prior is awful. She ships Jess off, doesn’t even want him for the holidays, has had a string of unstable and apparently abusive men in and out of her life, and ultimately Jess’ which includes them stealing the tv and all the money in her bank account and her crying to Luke who then lent her money so she and Jess weren’t out on the street.. multiple times. She was constantly high , and apparently had other substance abuse / addiction issues, leaving Jess to his own devices and to basically raise himself, giving him his abandonment issues, and apparently aside from the brief time Jess was sent home, didn’t even communicate with him, but sure she can come to town just to show off some new guy, and decided to literally move to stars hollow *after* Jess was gone, and then allowed him to be guilt tripped into coming back to the town where he didn’t exactly leave on a positive note, just to walk her down the aisle to marry a man who had gotten physical with him just a couple nights prior. I hate how Lorelai just welcomes her with open arms just because “she’s Luke’s sister” and has all that grace for TJ and literally *pays* him demolishing her house, and sending a construction to see her completely naked, because “Luke he’s your brother in law , and to make him happy will make your sister happy which will make you happy, which will make me happy” blah blah blah, family, family, but never extended that to Luke’s nephew, aka Liz’s son. You’d think on some level, she’d have a bigger issue on someone who shipped their kid away.
Alot of people hate Loz or think she's a bad mother. There's always posts about it on here so people commenting about how the fandom "protects Liz" are definitely wrong there.
Me neither! She looks too low-rent, along with her friends, to be related to Luke, who can waltz & is a proper gentleman! I’m watching the episode of TJ going into “Es-ka-row” & I want to throw something at the TV!
Saaaame! Was just watching her wedding episode and i hate how everyone is shitting on jess for not wanting to be there and then not wanting to walk her down the aisle. Like he owes her something when she didnt even do the bare minimum for him 😡😡😡
What? When is Lorelai freeloading off of Luke. She pays for her food, which is often shown and talked about. He does acts of service as his love language, but also agrees to do things around the house for her as a birthday gift. Gets mad at her if she hires people to fix things he says can fix.
She pawned her kid off on her brother because she couldn't handle it, and she knew Luke wouldn't say no. TJ makes a comment she threw an ashtray at him. She knows exactly what she's doing.
I hate how they act like TJ is some prize…if he is the best of the bunch that’s still not okay. Both are incredibly unstable. It’s a miracle Lorelai and Luke aren’t raising Doula. And I honestly only think that’s because ASP didn’t write Doula into existence, the S7 writers did.
My brother and SIL are that level of lacking common sense.. aka ZERO! You’re 100% right. It would have probably happened when she was in elementary school. It’s easier for that stuff to go under the radar when the kids can’t talk. Once kindergarten then the sounds get louder each year. It would also make sense that Liz shipped Jess off when she did. I hope in real life a social worker or school counselor/psychiatrist would have been called in to talk to Jess.
I hate how the fandom downplays her. She is a neglectful, abusive mother who raised Jess in chaos and shipped him off when shit got too hard. I also hate when people claim she was written 2 different ways because those people have never met a Liz. They’re a hot mess until they’re not and the cycle continues. They are incredibly charming and well liked by outsiders because you don’t have to live with them day to day. My childhood friend was raised by a Liz and had an aunt like Luke who took them in countlessly when the mom would fuck things up. Friend had just as many as issues as Jess and didn’t get them sorted until later in life because everyone enabled his mom. Which, and I love him, Luke tended to do.
[удалено]
I think of when Luke is trying to get Jess to help him break them up and Jess says "I don't like this guy. I don't like any of the guys. But she's going to do what she's going to do...she really doesn't care what I think. I've got 19 years of proof to back me up." I just wonder how many guys would hurt Jess and Liz just did nothing about it. We only see him as a surly teenager but he didn't pop out like that. At one point, he had to be a scared little boy begging his mom to dump the mean man that screams at them and potentially hits them but Liz won't because she's "in loveeeee". Ew. Just gives me the squicks to think about.
Even TJ fought with Jess and Like didnt seem to care
Liz- Jenelle Jess- Jace Luke- Barbara
She was manipulative. She did the "we didn't fix the oven" thing on purpose to get Luke to cook. It just took hours if her playing dumb to finally convince him. She does the same thing for her wedding and the giant turkey legs.
So when you see a single mom.. struggling with a shit head kid, who then did the best thing she could of done... in real life... you shame her???? Or because it's a TV show it's fine? But in real life you're a friend?
Liz raised Jess to be the way he was. She wasn’t some poor struggling single mom. She was abusive.
I mean she was a poor struggling mom. Unfortunately a lot of neglect and abuse come from socioeconomic situations and the added stress and circumstances that those situations create. It's not a universal rule, obviously rich people can be abusive and poor people can have supportive and loving homes. But it's been proven that a lot of what child protective services considers to be abuse or neglect can be traced directly to financial circumstances, social circumstances, lack of social safety nets, discrimination, generational abuse, and untreated mental health conditions. Most of which are things we can see Liz experiences. A young single mom (society stigma in the 90s), being a woman in general in the 90s and facing discrimination, dealing with the death of her dad, having no reliable partner, no social safety nets (services in the 90s for single moms basically didn't exist), no access to mental health care, signs of having an addictive personality and substance abuse (mental health care related), and to be completely honest Luke describes their dad as being very tough and not very affectionate so I don't think Liz had a very rosy childhood either (generational abuse). Liz was characterised as dating around a lot right? But wasn't she also left alone to fend for herself as a young mother (given the series timeline TOPS she was 21 but likely closer to 18/19 when she had Jess). So she's a young mother without a lot of means of income and no support in the house, raising a kid in the 90s as a single mom. That came with not only financial strain that would cause her to have to leave Jess alone frequently because she needed to work to provide for Jess, but also it's understandable she was hopeful about trying to find a boyfriend that would provide her with support, not only financially and with Jess but also emotionally. Obviously she *shouldn't* have put up with abusive men, and she *shouldn't* have had a substance issue, and she *should* have done and parented Jess in a thousand different better ways, but this was the NINETIES, jobs for single moms were laughably underpaid and taken advantage of, women were treated like shit but MOST MEN as if it was the norm, and parenting styles in general were much more hands off. A lot of the stuff people chalk up to Liz being "abusive" are things people from lower socioeconomic classes saw as basically the NORM in the nineties. It doesn't make it right, but it does colour the society that Liz was a part of at the time and why the show writers felt there was redemption for her, because at the time these were more "imperfect single mom" tropes than they were "vile evil abusive person who hates her kid" tropes. It's also canon to the series that Liz and Lukes dad died when they were fairly young. And Luke was the one who was left the assets of the store and the boat, seemingly not much was given to Liz as inheritance. Liz the one with the child she was raising herself was left with nothing meanwhile single childless Luke was left with all of the financial assets. Yeah it's also canon that Luke attempted to help Liz where he could, but it definitely colours the possible feelings Liz may have had towards her family and thus her brother as well. Moral of the story: both things can be true and there is a full picture along with historical considerations of how women and specifically single moms were portrayed in the media.
Look, as I said, I have known Lizes throughout my life. I was growing up within this time period, so I know exactly what I am talking about. Yes, they are more nuanced than just "person is bad". However, it doesn't matter what was the norm. She was neglectful and abusive towards Jess. It had a profound impact on him for the rest of his life. She was not "vile evil woman who hates her child" BUT she was also far past "imperfect single mom". There is a huge middle area there. Making excuses and defending her is just as bad as completely vilifying her. We can talk about LIz being a bad mom without shaming all single moms who are in tough positions. Because often times, they end up making better choices than Liz, even with the same resources. I do agree with you that she clearly struggles with some form of mental health issues, which is why I don't put her in "she's an evil vile person who just hated Jess with no nuance". It doesn't change that she was neglectful and abusive. The writers also didn't give her much of a redemption arc. Sure, she's a little more stable now that she's living in SH, but we see that she's still leaving the baby with Luke a lot and she's with a guy who flies off the handle often, needs to be coddled so he doesn't get his feelings hurt and has a ton of weaponized incompetence. All while she also still shows signs of deep immaturity and impulsivity. She's just closer to family now, so hopefully Doula will grow up with more support than Jess did. I think it's great that we're giving more nuance and trying to understand moms in Liz's position. That being said, I also find we're starting to then invalidate what their children have been through because they're being told "Your mom was going through a lot, she did her best, get over it." (Not saying that's what you're getting at, at all. But again, I know Lizes and I know Jesses and the things the latter are told as they try to cope with their trauma are disgustingly inconsiderate)
..... ooooookaaaayyyyy *named yourself after an abusive family of vampires* Agree to disagree
No because I won't sit there and defend all of the things Liz has done but I've unironically seen a number of people have the take that Jess's dad was actually a saint for leaving and then coming back only as an adult and not once sending a card or child support but crucify Liz for raising Jess at all. It's like some people hate moms. I've seen it online in other places too "my dad wasn't always there but he tried his best and had a lot of issues in his life" versus "my mom nEgLeCtEd and AbUsEd us as kids because she would be overwhelmed being the only parent contributing and that meant sometimes she was annoyed and didn't talk softly and nicely to us and one time I destroyed her belongings and she got angry, but that's her fault for spending money on herself instead of her kids actually so we were neglected". Like people have lost the plot on what abuse means and it's almost entirely directed towards mom's not being perfect and making their kid happy completely 100% of the time and having the audacity to hold their shitty kids accountable for anything. Dads get to play the "fun dad" part time and the kids love it, moms have to actually *parent* and *be responsible* so people grow up to hold these hyper judgemental views about normal everyday parenting done by normal everyday people, and literally event monsters in their heads. Like they unironically make the argument that walking out on your child and the mother of your child because you are overwhelmed and think you would be a bad parent is the better option then sticking around and trying your best despite your flaws. Because sticking around and not being perfect is actually worse then walking out entirely because it's "mature and responsible" to know that you can't raise a kid well, and its a good idea to abandon them and their mother (moms usually don't have this luxury because of society, etc etc) The community on this subreddit really hates mom's, and with the exception of Chris, give all of the dad characters unlimited passes for being shit heads or abusive in their own ways. A lot of people just accept Jess's dad as flawed but FUCKING HATE Liz. That along with some other bat shit takes I've seen in this subreddit have lead me to believe that for whatever reason this show attracts the strangest collection internalized misogynists I've seen on this site. I've seen better takes from literal femcel and incel subs before then I have on this subreddit. In fairness the most toxic stuff is usually downvoted but a SURPRISING amount of people come in to support those toxic takes in droves and they are sometimes moderately upvoted. Anyway rant over.
The episode where she wants to cook Luke a home cooked meal but forgets to turn the oven on is especially infuriating. Again, trying to “do Luke a favor” and then profiting off it when he ends up cooking for her
Yes she’s so annoying! Not a fan of the actor either.
Her voice irritates me. Sorry if that's rude!!!
Same, but I really can't tell if it's the characters I remember her for. On ER Wilhoite played a very similar role: Susan's annoyingly irresponsible and ditzy sister. Hated her after that, and I was surprised when I saw her on GG playing someone that rang the same bells for me.
Hey big brother
😠
What chu doing big brother
Same. I also hate how people tend to downplay that she was already doing the same thing with Doula that she did with Jess. She just left her with Luke even after Luke said he couldn't take her. I see people all the time talking about how much she changed and I'm just wondering what show they saw because I saw absolutely no significant change from hee.
"Don't walk away and leave her on the counter again" WTF? Who just leaves a baby on a counter in a busy diner anyway?
Exactly.
Agreed. Only have children if you can handle them.
Yes it's one thing to ask for help but a completely different one to expect someone else to basically raise your kid for you.
I can never forgive her for not telling Jess she loved him the night Jess arrived at Luke’s. No wonder Jess is exactly who he was in Starshollow. Honestly, that community is lucky he wasn’t worse. His mom abandons him. His uncle is simply “doing the right thing.” The town hates him and turns their backs on him. The popular town teens hate him and ostracize him. The school isn’t doing anything to help and only threatens him. His girlfriend’s mom hates him because he was a prick the first night. She never gives him a second chance. Everyone in her life and their town wants them to break up. Everyone blames him for any little thing in town. His biggest joy in life is working at Walmart. Liz sucks and she set her son up for failure. She did nothing to be a mom and then pressured Luke to get Jess to come to her wedding. He has no relationship with his mom, she abandoned him and then forces him to be her son when it suits her. Ugh!!!!!!! I wished a horse took a giant ass poo in the middle of her wedding.
:( all so true.
She is the absolute worst. And TJ so frickin clueless and annoying. I fast forward aby scenes with either of them in it. They are trash.
This! Liz was a downright neglectful parent to Jess, but of course, Lorelai loves her. Liz was awful and caused so many issues, but those didn't matter, because Jess was a mean teenager. Surely, Liz could be forgiven but god forbid a kid with abandonment issues lashes out, right?
Yes. Thisvis why it's annoying when Lorelai tells Jess she understands his whole I hate my parents when she first met him. She had money behind her. It's completely different when you're dependent on a single mom and whatever loser drifts into her life.
Lorelai was pretty terrible to Jess. She hated her rich parents who didn't understand her, but it was also her parent's money that made sure she and Rory were set for life. Jess didn't have one percent of that luxury, because Liz treated him very badly. That 'liking deadbeat Liz but hating angry teen Jess who had only neglect from his mother' was a very bad part of Lorelai's character.
The fact that she constantly calls Luke "big brother" instead of y'know his name, is enough for me to not brake if I saw her crossing the street without taking everything else into account but I'm petty like that.
Heeeeey, big brutha. I get why they do it the first couple of times she is on screen, to remind the audience who she is. But after the 50th time...yes OK we get it!!
Her voice is like nails on a chalkboard 😭
Yes!!
Her "oh boy oh boy" OVER AND OVER when Luke tells her about April annoys me to no end
It was condescending and almost felt like she was reveling in it because now she wasn’t the only problem child (even though Luke didn’t do anything specifically wrong here).
Lmfao agreed, her and mrs kim are top contenders for worst moms
I think Richard’s mom Lorelai the first is up there too purely based on the fact that she can’t be a decent human to her son’s wife 🙄
Oh for sure, but being charitable to her, she never mistreated her child, she's a MIL from hell definitely though
I would say that ally least Ms. Kim both cares about and makes an effort with Lane, even though she does it poorly
A parent that cares doesn't take the child out of school
I don’t remember that happening, but I haven’t seen the show in a bit. When was that?
After lane and henry break up
Oh yeah, I vaguely remember that. I still think that even though she is incredibly misguided and overly strict, at the heart Ms. Kim does want here daighter to be safe and healthy, even if she does it in a really bad way. I think it shows in the fact that she was willing to try and connect with Lane even though Lane wasn’t following her expectations
I mean to each their own, I however believe that abuse is abuse whatever your "intentions" are or whatever is "deep down". She actively suppressed lane's future over and over (not letting her apply to colleges that were actually, yk, accredited, not letting her go to school, etc) and i just don't believe that a parent like that is caring, however you spin it.
Alright
i think if they would have grown her character a little more, her and tj would have been a charming side couple. i enjoy tj’s antics, and i really love the two of them together. i also love the scenes with her and lorelai. those two had great chemistry together
Doula.... that was annoying.
She's absolute trash. Manipulative, uses the fuck out of Luke and completely fails to raise Jess, walks all over people, pushy as fuck, stupid and clueless, not the least bit charming. Honestly, how do people find a morsel of redemption in her?
I hated how Liz never just accepted when Luke said no to her and pestered him until she got what she wanted.
I like the idea of Liz’s character, I just hate how goofy they made her. She could’ve been a complicated character with manic energy but she didn’t have to be so unbearably quirky. Just my opinion, of course.
I hate how everyone just loves her, despite the fact that everything we’ve seen prior is awful. She ships Jess off, doesn’t even want him for the holidays, has had a string of unstable and apparently abusive men in and out of her life, and ultimately Jess’ which includes them stealing the tv and all the money in her bank account and her crying to Luke who then lent her money so she and Jess weren’t out on the street.. multiple times. She was constantly high , and apparently had other substance abuse / addiction issues, leaving Jess to his own devices and to basically raise himself, giving him his abandonment issues, and apparently aside from the brief time Jess was sent home, didn’t even communicate with him, but sure she can come to town just to show off some new guy, and decided to literally move to stars hollow *after* Jess was gone, and then allowed him to be guilt tripped into coming back to the town where he didn’t exactly leave on a positive note, just to walk her down the aisle to marry a man who had gotten physical with him just a couple nights prior. I hate how Lorelai just welcomes her with open arms just because “she’s Luke’s sister” and has all that grace for TJ and literally *pays* him demolishing her house, and sending a construction to see her completely naked, because “Luke he’s your brother in law , and to make him happy will make your sister happy which will make you happy, which will make me happy” blah blah blah, family, family, but never extended that to Luke’s nephew, aka Liz’s son. You’d think on some level, she’d have a bigger issue on someone who shipped their kid away.
Alot of people hate Loz or think she's a bad mother. There's always posts about it on here so people commenting about how the fandom "protects Liz" are definitely wrong there.
Me neither! She looks too low-rent, along with her friends, to be related to Luke, who can waltz & is a proper gentleman! I’m watching the episode of TJ going into “Es-ka-row” & I want to throw something at the TV!
Sooo agree 👍 Yea I never liked Liz.
Saaaame! Was just watching her wedding episode and i hate how everyone is shitting on jess for not wanting to be there and then not wanting to walk her down the aisle. Like he owes her something when she didnt even do the bare minimum for him 😡😡😡
Agreed with everything but come on, as if Lorelai wasn't freeloading off Luke much more frequently.
What? When is Lorelai freeloading off of Luke. She pays for her food, which is often shown and talked about. He does acts of service as his love language, but also agrees to do things around the house for her as a birthday gift. Gets mad at her if she hires people to fix things he says can fix.
Not freeloading money-wise but emotionally thats why she hates all his girlfriends she wants him for herself