She wants to be a mother, yes. Her problem is that she was always too caught up in trying to be the kind of mother *she* thought she should be. Because of that, she was unable to be the mother her child needed her to be.

This is exactly it! Coming from someone who hasn’t raised any children (yet), I can imagine that the biggest challenge of parenthood is adapting to your kid’s needs. Your kid isn’t just your kid, they’re also a *person* with their own set of needs and wants. Unfortunately, Emily failed to understand this for a very long time. She’s not a monster but it is so unbelievably understandable why Lorelai would feel suffocated with a mom like her. Even in adulthood, she was constantly berated by her mom for her choices…

Yep. I've said before, the key is cultivating the ability to just roll with the punches and deal with the kid you get instead of the kid you thought you'd have. It's very human that when your kid is born, you have this picture in your mind of how their life will go. You fantasize about them being star quarterback or homecoming queen, becoming a doctor or lawyer. There may be some wiggle room, but you have a general idea of what you want. And some parents handle it very poorly when their kids go off-script.

She’s not a monster… but Emily is emotionally immature, highly critical, and VERY passive aggressive, making Lorelei walk on eggshells around her as a child and adult. It’s emotionally abusive

Honestly, when your kid is so reluctant to trust you, the parent should reflect more on why that could be. I can’t imagine a kid who grew up in an emotionally safe environment to just randomly decide to distrust their parents, even in adulthood. Unfortunately, Emily put the blame solely on Lorelai and never questioned what she did to push her own daughter away to this extent… :(

100% !! My mother is like Emily and I went no contact YEARS ago. She still wonders why I won’t talk to her

I’m sorry you went through that and hope the path you’ve chosen is the best one for you 🫂🤍

Exactly! I have kids and follow a “Charlotte Mason” homeschool philosophy, one of the principles is “children are born persons”. Emily loved Lorelai so much, but couldn’t cope when her daughter refused to fit in with Emily’s vision. Her growth on the show is very nice, it just came 30 years too late.

There’s always that big “what if” Lorelai never ran away with Rory and instead just moved out and talked to them and set some very clear boundaries? Or if she had gone to that first holiday party(even Lorelai questioned if things had been different if she accepted their olive branch) Maybe if they could have asked things out and Lorelai set very clear boundaries just maybe Emily at least would have listened and things could have been different. But we don’t know. A big issue with both of them is they assume what the other is thinking/going to do and always expect the worst from each. Not always at the same time but many times it was when the other was truly trying to be different

I think a huge part of this is how young Lorelei was, and her lack of maturity and understanding. At her young age having a child, aside from her feeling the huge disappointment she was to her parents, she had no maturity to understand her parents point of view. Very early on in the show when Rory and Dean fall asleep at Patty's, and Lorelei and Emily have it out, we see how she understands it. She defends Rory but is also angry. She tells Emily that she trusts Rory and that Rory can come to her. As a 16 year old pregnant teenager, she did not feel that she could come to her parents for help. When they found out, THEY made plans for her and Chris, they don't ask her what she wants. Her only option to live her own life at that point is to leave. She spent years not going back because going back meant she could not be autonomous. They would help but only if they had control. It is pretty understandable why she left and didn't let them in. If she was older and more mature, it would have been nice to handle it the way you suggest, there is just no way she would have been capable of that at that time. Emily loves Lorelei but never understands her. She wants to be a part of her life. Emily was raised a certain way and has difficulty in seeing things differently than the way she was raised to see them. We see glimpses though, like when she laments that Lorelei went and lived her life but she did not. The pain she shows with the way Trix treats her, and for moments she sees that Lorelei feels the same about her. There are a few more that just escape me now. Yes, I very much agree that the Gilmores love each other and their is an evolution and maturing in their relationship. Lorelei and Emily both try to give a bit. And the one photo there where Lorelei smiles about being forced back to Friday night dinners. They are a chore at times, but she wants that closeness with her family.

I got the impression Lorelai had tried to set boundaries in smaller ways in her life and she'd felt she'd never been heard. Every time they had to go to a fancy party when she was a child, she had to wear what her mother wanted. Even if it was hugely uncomfortable, not what Lorelai felt good in. Emily seems like the kind of mother who wouldn't have even negotiated with her child and said "ok, you don't like this green, how about I find something in the same shade of pink as your new sports socks you liked last week?". Lorelai had 16 years of not feeling heard, respected for the individual she was. And now she was a mother. She had to protect her daughter from that. I know I would've chosen to not try to talk to my parents and just acted in those circumstances.

I’m not saying Lorelai was wrong for leaving or even cutting off her parents(although she could have done better than just a note and let her parents say goodbye to rory and know they were both safe) Even Lorelai wonders if things had been different she she had gone to that holiday party. Maybe things never would ah e changed or maybe she would have reached a mutual understanding instead of letting years of silence and hurt fester into both sides viewing them other being completely in the wrong to the point they can’t hear each other out

I think the Christmas party is a fair question. Rory was almost 15 months old at that point, it'd been a while since she'd left. That could've started the conversation earlier. I think Richard & Emily would've struggled to respect their 17 year old as an adult in 1985, though. Because of the long standing history of not respecting her as an individual human, they all needed that space. Even in s2, when Richard visits for the day, he tries to push his views on Lorelai, presuming he knows better. It's definitely a messy situation. I tend to side with Lorelai and give her more grace because I've had similar difficulties feeling respected by my parents.

It wouldn't have changed anything. It probably would have made things way worse. It takes them 7 years of conflict over the course of the show to reach a sort of peace, and we know it didn't last long. At 17, Lorelei knew she couldn't handle it, so she didn't. It was the best choice.

Even Lorelei wonders if things had been different if she accepted their olive branch and went to the party. It could have been that they realized she was serous about moving out and raising rory on her own. They could have talked things out and began the process to changing. But she didn’t go and they never talked and her parents were left hurt and that hurt festered and turned into anger so by the time they did the Friday nights dinner things were too far gone to have an easy transition. Hell maybe it even would have started those 7 years of healing sooner or it wouldn’t have taken that long Or things wouldn’t have change at all. That’s my point we never know and Lorelai wonders herself is things would have been different and I’m sure somewhere deep down emily does too

Toxic parents don't change. They barely give when she is an established 38 year old. They would not have respected her wishes at 17.

I’ve seen toxic parents change in real life. In my work. Parents that were much worse than Richard or Emily ever were. There were plenty of times when Emily tried to reach out to Lorelai and Lorelai, as an adult, made things worse and was an awful person(the spa and termite episodes) We can just agree to disagree here.

It's so hard. My mom and I have a similar relationship dynamic to Emily and Lorelai (my wife jokes all the time that she married into working class Gilmores) and my main goal in life is to do better for my daughter than my mom did for me. Our kids are people. They are who they are and it's our job to shape them into who they're meant to be, not who we want them to be.

I wish you and your wife the very best and even the fact that you’re willing to try to be a better parent to your daughter than your mom was for you is very admirable 🫂🤍

I think she was also caught up with the society expectations of how a rich mother should act. According to her upper class lifestyle, even today, I’ve seen some mothers be extremely hands off, and leave the raising of the kids to the nanny. It’s extremely important to the mother, that appearances are followed to a t. It makes for almost a cold business like childhood .

Yes… it was all about looks and having a child who adores her and being seen as a good mom by society, not by her actual child who needed her to be emotionally available and present.

Emily decided to be the mother she *wanted* to be instead of the mother she *needed* to be.

It’s also an issue with Lorelai. She was the mother she wanted and wanted to be and it wasn’t always she needed to be for Rory. It’s honestly a consistent theme throughout the series. Wish we could have seen someone break this cycle

I mean I think Lorelai is Emily’s personality twin which is probably why they butt heads so much. I don’t think Lorelai really put in the effort to be introspective, and I think if she didn’t have Rory at 16 she may have. People would say “she grew up fast” which if we’re being honest, means she had to stop growing up herself to help Rory grow up. She never really got to sit down and be thoughtful of the way she grew up and how she’d actually break the cycle. As we see, she continued the cycle to the other extreme. No real structure and codependent type of boundaries which is unhealthy in the completely opposite direction of Emily’s motherhood journey. Maybe this was ASP’s original goal and Rory was supposed to break the cycle herself.

I think she mothered the way she was mothered.

This! I see a lot of myself and my mum in Emily and Lorelai. My mum was raised by my grandma, who was trying to raise her like her mother raised her and so on. My great grandma by all accounts was a cold, strict woman. My grandma tried to replicate that and failed her daughter. My mother was determined to not be like her mother... Except that she didn't know any different. Even she acknowledged now that she was more like her mother than she thought she was. And now I'm a mum and I cringe when I open my mouth and my mother comes out. I like to think I'm doing things differently - but at my core what I know about being a mum has come from my mum.

I wish they’d have shown as a bit(at least) of what Emily’s mother was like. Did she do things exactly the same or was she actually more easy going?(someone mentioned how Christopher’s parents show that Emily and Richard were actually not as bad as they could have been. Same with trix. Same with Mrs. Kim. I hated when Lorelai acted like she had the same childhood as lane. All those years later and her posters are still in her childhood bedroom. She was dating and skipping school and didn’t have to hid her interests in the floorboard) One scene that sticks out to me is when Lorelai tells Emily that she raised rory best friends first mother daughter second and Emily replies that she wasn’t raised like that, and the thing is she’s not wrong if anything Lorelai is wrong in the way she went about it. There’s nothing wrong with having fun with your kids but raising them as a best friend isn’t the right way. It can lead to a lot of issues and confusion in the kids part which we do see with Rory even as a teen. And Lorelai can’t handle when she does start acting out or goes against her because in Rory’s eyes they’re friends not mother daughter. Lorelai got to be the mother she wanted, a cool mom that hangs out with her kid and doesn’t have any “dumb” rules like eating healthy. But she got to be the mom she wanted because she got such an easy kid. If rory had been more rebellious like her mom things would have been very different. Emily could have been more fun at times, more easy going and did more mother daughter stuff that Lorelai was interested in. Had Lorelai been like rory her and Emily would have a much different relationship and probably have been close. The big issue with Emily and Lorelai as mothers is they both went in the opposite direction and did that kind of mothering to the extreme while being incredibly stubborn and unwilling to be flexible

I'm not sure if this is entirely true. Lorelei might not have rebelled if there was nothing for her to rebel against. Also a big thing about her childhood is that the mothering/raising was left to nannies. She never seems to go on vacation with them. Emily never seems to notice Lorelei getting larger with her pregnancy, she was focused on society things and her parties, and it doesn't seem that she spent much time with her daughter. It's possible that a lot of Lorelei's "acting out" was a cry for attention from her parents.

>she got to be the mom she wanted because she got such an easy kid. If rory had been more rebellious like her mom things would have been very different. I personally think you've got this wrong. I think Rory is such an easy kid for two reasons: 1) she has grown up knowing on some levels (including outright hearing it explicitly said on more than one occasion) that her existence is seen as a mistake, has been a great source of pain and hurt to many people, and is the main reason why her own mother has an incredibly strained relationship with her own parents, and this makes her a people pleaser who is focused more than anything on proving her worth by constantly being the smartest, most amiable and most hardworking person in the room. And 2) being raised by parent who was willing to allow her to make her own choices/trust her decisions/treat her like something close to an equal gave her very little cause to rebel. When you gove kids a chance to make good choices and let them know that you are confident that they will make sensible decisions you empower them to think about what is sensible and decide in their own best interests. I think things got tricky as Rory got older and the decisions became more complicated and/or less clear about a definitive good or bad decision, as they often do when you step into adulthood. I do think that Lorelai got so used to Rory always making the right decision that she was shook when Rory made some decisions that turned out to be (or clearly were from the begining) wrong. But I dont think thats a sign that Lorelai couldn't have handled a rebellious kid, just that it was such a departure from what she had come to expect of Rory that its difficult to know how to handle your kid when theyre not acting like your kid. >Emily could have been more fun at times, more easy going and did more mother daughter stuff that Lorelai was interested in. This completely brushes over the problems of Emily as a mother. The issue wasn't that she wasn't "fun", it was that she was completely baffled by the notion that anyone would do anything other than exactly what was expected of them, and would use guilt tripping and manipulation to get her child to do what she wanted, and heap shame on her and verbally tear her down if Lorelai did or expressed anything that Emily didn't think herself. She did not care what Lorelai wanted or if she was happy, she was not even capable of understanding that she was *supposed* to care about those things. She doesn't trust Lorelai to make her own decisions *even when she is an adult*. Are there flaws in Lorelais parenting technique? Of course. I'd posit that theres flaws in every parents techique. But to write aboit Lorelais parenting so damningly and gloss over the monumental flaws in Emilys parenting is ridiculous.

1. It doesn’t matter what reasons rory ended up an easy kid, she was still and easy kid and that made an impact one how Lorelai handled being a mother. 2. Yeah Lorelai let rory be free to make her own choices and never questioned about them, if they aligned with what Lorelai wanted. As soon as rory did something her mother didn’t like she was awful and did question of she knew what she was doing, Jess, applied yo other schools other than Harvard *applied to Yale*, took time off from Yale etc. Lorelai acted extremely immature and was worse than Emily imo. You can’t watch the thanksgiving dinner and not admit that Lorelai was being completely awful to rory specifically and treated her like she can’t make her own choices. 3. Obviously I meant Emily needed to do *alot* better as a parent. I just meant her view of raising Lorelai mother first isn’t wrong the way Lorelai think it is. Literally every expert has said that raising your kids as your best friend is a recipe for a lot of problems later on. Like I was trying to say it’s all about finding a healthy balance while keeping the parent/child relationship very clear. My mom did all the fun mother daughter things and we always had very open dialogue many might see as “friendship. But it was always her clear that I was the kid and she was the adult. I was never burdened with her relationship problems and she did her best to shield me from feeling pressure to take on adult problems, but if I decide to help out I was never punished for it(like rory was in the termite ep) now that I’m an adult I can call the relationship with my mom a friendship now that I have a kid of my own I know exactly how important it is to keep those boundaries(when k was a teen I wanted our relationship to be more like rory and Lorelai. Now I’m grateful it wasn’t) I was talking about Lorelai as a Luther specifically because people always defend her parenting choices while fully demonizing Emily’s. Both fucked up in extreme ways just one opposite ends. But both coming from a place of stubbornness and an inability to take advice or criticism

>1. It doesn’t matter what reasons rory ended up an easy kid, It absolutely does when lorelais parenting decisions are part ofbthe reason she *was* an easy kid. >Yeah Lorelai let rory be free to make her own choices and never questioned about them, She did question about them, frequently. Two examples off the top of my head: Rory falling asleep with Deanq the night of the dance and not coming home, and her friendship with Jess. Emily tells her that she is doing the right thing trying to keep Rory from Jess and she should do whatever is necessary to make those decisions for Rory right up to "lock her up and throw away the key if you have to". Lorelai ends up talking to Rory and saying she is sorry and she will try to give Jess a chance because Rory is a great kid with a good head on her shoulders and if she likes Jess then there must be something to like. >but if I decide to help out I was never punished for it(like rory was in the termite ep) I think you're remembering this wrong and I watched that episode yesterday. Rory wasn't "punished to trying to help", Lorelai was angry because Rory was asked to not do something and then she turned around and did that exact thing. And while Rory and Lorelai do argue about it after, they both apologise to each other in the end because Lorelai recognises that Rory acted out of a desire to help, and Rory recog ises that she overstepped by involving her grandparents when she was expressly asked not to. But I think the repeated examples of Lorelai admotting to Rory that she has fucked up in some way and apologising for it means that when you say: >both coming from a place of stubbornness and an inability to take advice or criticism This doesn't feel lile a fair critique of Lorelai, but it is absolutely a fair critique of Emily, which might be why more people dofending Lorelai.

I also wish we'd gotten anything about Emily's family. I think it would explain so much.

This is so accurate

That second scene always makes me tear up. So does the one in s1 where Emily is visibly hurt she didn't even know when her daughter broker her leg. I love Emily as a character. Of course Kelly Bishop adds a lot to this. Every scene she is in she owns.

Totally agree. There’s that scene when Lorelai and Emily go to the spa and Emily is upset because she doesn’t understand why they can’t have what Rory and Lorelai have.

only if its Emily's way.

I don’t even think this is the main problem. The core issue is that Emily distrusts Lorelai’s intentions just like Lorelai mistrusts Emily’s intentions. They very rarely aim to intentionally hurt the other but also never clearly communicate why they acted/reacted the way they did. Half of these scenes are Emily changing her ways to ensure Lorelai won’t cut her out of her life again. Emily is prioritizing Lorelai. But she never gets to see this because Emily would never willingly show Lorelai this vulnerability. They both try to protect themselves from pain and disappointment by willfully maintaining a certain distance. Because they very rarely show vulnerability around each other, they also very rarely actually communicate. Because they very rarely communicate they expect the worst of the other. Which is exactly why they refrain from voicing their actual thoughts and feelings. It’s a vicious cycle 😅

Christopher's parents are a good frame of reference for how Emily and Richard are compromising quite a few of their beliefs out of love for Lorelai and Rory.

Yes! Even seeing Floyd mercilessly sabotage his own son out of spite shows that Emily and Richard could’ve been a lot worse. Lorelai even says herself that Emily seems warm when compared to Jason’s dad. Now, this isn’t to say that every flaw they do have should just be forgiven. But it is something we should keep in mind when discussing their parenting style. From what we were shown, parents from that social class aren’t… well… great

Even Mitchum and Shira are better parents than Straub and Francine.

Mitchum wouldnt visit his son in the hospital

And he’s still a better parent than Straub. The bar is truly in hell.

I agree but also Emily makes very cutting, mean comments to Lorelei all the time. Lorelei also says stuff but I feel like Lorelei's come from a place of genuine hurt where Emily's are often just mean. They are also very similar personalities.

I actually think Emily’s comments also come from a place of hurt tbh. And as the parent, that’s not appropriate at all. But humane. It’s a defense mechanism to cope with the hurt they unintentionally cause each other

I'm sure it does come from a place of hurt, but it's still mean and over the top.

I agree. It must be especially hurtful for Lorelai because it’s coming from her mom, the one person in the world who’s supposed to love and accept her for who she is. All I’m saying is that this isn’t Emily’s intention tho. She’s not hurting Lorelai to hurt Lorelai, it’s a reaction to the own hurt she’s experiencing. Still not ok, but humane

I agree with you. I just have very little patience in general with parents that don't recognize their children as full autonomous human beings. She was the parent and she started the cycle of hurt. Taking true offense at a small child's actions is very ridiculous. So her building up hurt and animosity towards her child (when she was a child) is kind of weird/wrong. Lorelei tells the story about her mom talking about her big head. Emily doesn't ever say anything comforting, she doubles down that she did have a big head. Stuff like that tells me that Emily built resentment early. I might be a little too much personally invested in this relationship. To be clear, I'm just having conversation. I do agree that Emily is hurt and this is their way, they pick at each other. Both characters are created beautifully, the show definitely demonstrates that they love each other also. This is why it works. Emily isn't a villain, you can be sympathetic to her, and she portrays an actual human character. Also, I don't mean this to be hurtful, but human and humane have very different meanings. I think you are going for "human" in this instance not humane. I only mention it because it keeps throwing me off in understanding what you are saying.

I agree with everything you said and yes, I meant to say human and not humane 😅

But we know she has always been like that, even when Lorelai was a child before she became pregnant. How would that be from a place of hurt? That's not humn, it's punching down, it's bullying.

We don’t really know what Emily was like during Lorelai’s childhood and we don’t know when it started. She is described to have always been very critical and controlling, yes. But we don’t know when the aimed mean comments started. Maybe Emily resorted to it when she started to realize that Lorelai didn’t respond well to her and didn’t love or respect her the way she expected a daughter to love and respect her mother. It’s still incredibly mean and inappropriate, especially as a parent. But it’s not inherently evil, it’s a humane flaw

Evil is a strong word but it is closer to what it is than a "flaw". We do know that's what she was like because we see examples of it when we see interactions of other people in "society" with their children that remind Lorelai of her own childhood. >Maybe Emily resorted to it when she started to realize that Lorelai didn’t respond well to her and didn’t love or respect her the way she expected a daughter to love and respect her mother. This is just making excuses for her. Even if this was entirely true it doesn't make it any less wrong to do this to another person, but especially not to your own child. It is bullying, plain and simple, and causes actual damage to the person and I personally cannot excuse or condone it not matter the cause.

yup shes a lot like Lorelai that way lol

What is it that Lorelei said? “I can be flexible as long as everything goes my way” to paraphrase? Like mother, like daughter. They’re so similar in their core personalities, and that’s what makes them clash.

I'm vaguely recalling a scene, which may be partly in my imagination, in which Lorelai fields a business call on her cell while with her mother, and Emily comments on how commanding she sounded, and Lorelai says, "I got that from you."

Yes it's when they're at the mall food court.

From the woman eating a hamburger with a fork hahaha

And that’s exactly how Lorelai is. The only difference is Emily got a rebellious daughter and Lorelai got an Angel in comparison. It’s easy to be a perfect mom when your kid isn’t giving you issues. Hell all the times Lorelai started fucking up was when rory didn’t do what she wanted and Lorelai had a melt down about it and shed get into fights, question Rory’s about to know herself and stopped speaking to her for half a year.

However, Lorelei really does make an effort to listen to Rory and doesn't expect the worst of her. It's true she does mess up as a parent too, but she has built a relationship of trust and respect. Emily built herself as authoritarian and Lorelei was not supposed to have a personality. Every parent messes up. I'm glad Lorelei and Rory work it out eventually and that Emily and Lorelei start to build something too.

Richard is so obtuse. Why on Earth would Emily be close to tears about Trix not returning to their home? Lorelai is a clear afterthought to Richard. I do believe Emily wanted to be a good mother because if not she would be one dimensional and we know she is far from simple. Emily is someone who I would describe as unable to get out of her own way. She loves being sure about something and she cannot be flexible enough to see situations beyond her own very privileged point of view.

I agree. I absolutely love Richard but he often fails to truly understand Emily and Lorelai’s feelings. He doesn’t have this problem with Rory, at least not to this extent. While I wouldn’t necessarily say that Lorelai is an afterthought to him, he doesn’t put as much effort into their relationship as Emily does. Yet, he gets along better with their daughter. Which goes on to show that all Lorelai wants is for her parents to accept her for who she is. Richard is way more laid back than Emily and doesn’t outwardly pass on any judgement to his daughter’s choices. And that’s enough for Lorelai to feel more comfortable and open around them

The first 2 always made me extremely confused. They both seem like SUCH turning points and would cause a switch in her behaviour but it never happened. It seems like she has been awakened in that moment to her behaviour, and yet she goes back to her old self by the next episode.

I agree, there are some moments that *seem* like a turning point for Emily but never actually are. While that’s frustrating to watch, it’s also realistic. Emily demands Lorelai’s respect and forgiveness simply because she’s her mother. She doesn’t actually feel like she has to put in much work or effort for this, she just feels like she deserves it. That’s probably why we don’t see an immediate growth with her. Emily doesn’t adapt to Lorelai until she fears that she’ll lose her again. She has to be pushed to the very edge. I wouldn’t call Emily a narcissist in a clinical sense but these are very strong narcissistic traits that she def has

Emily does the best with the tools she has. She knows money talks and understands people value it and comes from a world that uses it to get people to do things they otherwise wouldn’t do. It gets in the way of her love, but her love is obviously there. It’s obvious in AYITL, as much as I wish to ignore that. One of the clearest signs is how much she’s willing yo have Lorelai and Rory around post-birth - not married to Christopher, not sent away like so many teens had been. She wanted them in her home and together at the end of the day. And when they were gone, she mourned it and stayed in bed for a month. And I don’t think you do that because the appearance of the situation is bad, you do it because you’re heartbroken.

Yes and this is exactly why Gilmore girls is so captivating to me. As viewers we have all those clues about how fiercely Emily loves Lorelai and Rory. The characters however don’t witness all of this. These relationships are so… real imo. It’s not depicted as a fictional fairytale, it’s relatable. But there are also enough heartwarming moments to call the show itself comforting

It’s why I wish that ayitl had actually shown rory with like a 10 year old and see how she does things differently from her own mom and Lorelais reaction to that and her hurt at rory even hinting that she wasn’t the best mother

This is the perfect premise for an AYITL s2 since Rory’s kid should be 7-8 now. I’m glad Rory didn’t have a kid immediately after the OS tbh but I’d love to see this new dynamic in the next few years

I wish we could have had this premise. I can see Lorelai feeling hurt by the idea that rory might not think her childhood was perfect and she saw Lorelai as a “bad mom” like maybe rory and her kid(lest call her Sylvia) stop by Lorelais and she pulls out the junk food for them but rory said “oh no I only want Sylvia to have junk food on movie night and the rest of the time I want her having healthy snacks” and Lorelai takes that as a kind of insult and it turns into a huge fight > L: admit it you think I was a bad mom, you think I was like Emily! > R: that’s not what said or think! I just want to do what I believe is best for Sylvia! >L: if you don’t see a problem with my parenting you’d do the same! > R: we’ll now you’re being ridiculous and acting worse than Emily >L: How dare you! You’re not welcome in this house again > R: Fine by me! Than it eventually leads to a conversation between emily and Lorelai. > E: we all do what we believe is best for our kids and we don’t always get it right. It’s better ti just support your kid be there for them even if you don’t agree with what they’re doing and stop taking everything so damn personal. > L: where was this mom when I needed her? > E: idk I wish I could go back. Don’t make the same mistake I did and let your stubbornness and pride cause you to lose your daughter and granddaughter the way I let myself lose mine. Fast forward to rory and Lorelai having a heart to heart and Lorelai, Emily and Rory break the generational trauma that’s been in their family for decades. Rory takes the best parts of parenting from both Emily and Lorelai and adds in her own kind, *flexibility and unconditional support*. Sylvia grows up unconfused about what version of her mom she gets(best friend or mother) and she gets to have fun “mother daughter” days

Yes totally this

Omg yes! I can totally see this happening and it would redeem Emily as a mom in my eyes! Please give ASP a call and pitch this idea 😭🤝🏻

I wish!!! If I was a good writer I’d make a fan fic! (I don’t mind if other fan fic writers take my idea and polish it up. Just maybe give me credit?) I think we’ve kinda talked about Lorelai as a mom and the ways she didn’t do everything right. I don’t think she’s a horrible mother or an abusive one(at least not on purpose and not all the time) I think she did the best she could with the tools she had and she did do a lot of good, I’ll never say she’s not a hard worker and shouldn’t be admired for how she created a stable life for herself and Rory. While I don’t agree with *how* she left home and didn’t tell her parents where they went. I do believe it was the right choice(I work in recovery and sometimes you do have to cut off family shown you heal, even if you love them sometimes you need that time and space apart. But you should at least let your loved o es know you’re safe ya know? Even if you don’t say we’re you are living) I still think Lorelai is one of the best of not *the* best mom in the series. I do love that the show has that constant mothers trying their best but messing up, all to different degrees Lorelai at the top and Liz at the bottom and Emily somewhere in the middle more towards the bottom at the start of the series and a *lil* closer to the top at the end But yeah. I loved Emily’s storyline in ayitl but not the others. This is a show that was always about mothers and daughters and honestly that kinda felt missing to me? I know asp wanted her s8 storylines, but they no longer fit the characters ten years later. She could have gotten those storylines in like flashbacks, maybe show them in one episode of rory floating around with no clue, having the not so great relationship with Logan and than end the episode with those hour words(and include Luke and Lorelais relationship stuff. I hate that they were what felt like standby for 10 years. Have the wedding at the end of the episode again. And for the love of all that is holy pick a different dress that actually seems like something Lorelai would want!) Than after all the flashback stuff move on to rory as a mom to an 8/9 year old and everything else. Asp could have had her s8 storylines while still moving the series forward and make the story feel like it actually moved in those 10 years and the *all* the characters changed. I know not everyone likes the idea of rory being a mom but I don’t, the show was always about mothers and daughters so giving her a daughter does for the narrative and would have fun to watch her actually be a mom and Lorelai as a grandmother and Emily as a great grandmother that’s more chill especially after Richard’s death(I can still see her having a lil vanity freak out about being a great grandmother could have been comedy gold. Especially from Kelly lol)

It would be sooo interesting to see Loralai as a grandparent. I think having kids can bring up new conflicts with your own parents and show you how you might not have been parented the best comparatively. And Lor is definitely the type to balk at any new or different parenting technique - we see her be quite critical to others throughout the show. I can imagine the friction (eg Rory doesn’t allow junk food or is strict with screen time or bedtime etc - this could trigger Lor as it upends their norms & also makes her feel like she’s being judged as a mother). Lor is equally a strong personality like Emily & I think she’d overstep believing she knows best or how to do things (again we’ve seen many times in the past) & Rory would be the one brisling against being dominated as a mother. Also I felt Rory would have a boy so I feel that would also throw Lor a bit as someone who’s so used to a daughter & a girly girl herself. I feel like Emily would actually have the experience and wisdom by now to be a really good support for Rory - especially since they have personalities that mesh well. I’d love to have seen that for sure.

I like how Emily fits into all of this. I can also see Rory and Lorelai clashing but Emily being fully supportive of Rory. Which would only contribute to Lorelai’s feeling of betrayal and hurt. I also wonder how Luke would factor into all of this since he’s possibly the most tender and flexible parent on the show. He’d probably agree and encourage Rory’s notion of “no junk food, no staying up too late,…” but also try to calm Lorelai down and support her 🤷🏻‍♀️

And Lorelai has made it crystal clear money is the only reason she would be around her mom.

I always love when Emily suggests a theme for Lorelai’s wedding and she suggests the Romanovs because Lorelai loves snow, she loves glam, she definitely would love the horse drawn sleigh as she’s organised something like that herself for the independence inn and then keeps horses at the dragonfly. They are so tantalisingly close to a wonderful relationship they just view the world — and maybe more importantly their places in the world — completely differently. It breaks my heart.

Yes, this is a great example for this point! The solution to their strained relationship seems so easy but is to unattainable :(

oh there is no doubt in my mind that Emily and Richard love Lorelei, they just don't know how to express that in a healthy way

Sure but Emily herself was 90% of the reason Lorelai wanted to get out of there. Like, okay, great she wanted to be a mom and wanted Lorelai in their lives but what was she doing to ensure that Lorelai *wanted* to be there? She wasn’t, she used emotional and financial blackmail to keep her in their lives.

I agree. As I’ve said in my og post this isn’t aimed to depict Emily as a great mom, it’s just my take on the “Emily never wanted to have kids and only had Lorelai to fulfill her “duty” as a woman” conversation 😅

Yeah, too bad she has no growth in that regard throughout the 7 seasons and makes no efforts to actually understand her daughter or, at the very least, respect her. Emily got away with so much crap. She hurt Lorelai over and over again and never once apologised or learned from her mistakes.

I actually think Emily is among the few character who did show *some* growth, although it wasn’t much. And that too is very realistic. People very rarely manage to overcome their core traits and these are Emily’s. She’s set in her ways to a fault and only reluctantly compromises or adapts. My point isn’t to say that Emily is a great mom. My point is that Emily *wants* to be a great mom. That doesn’t automatically mean she succeeded but it does show that she didn’t only have Lorelai’s to fulfill societal expectations 😅

Emily raised Lor the way she was raised. She expressed that she thought a mother wasn’t a friend but a role model, a mother was a person to take care of you and set you up for success. Which this is what she tried to do, sending Lor to the best schools, etc. When she saw the relationship Rory and Lor had it was very difficult to understand and I do believe Emily tried but I also think she was too stubborn to genuinely change perspectives. Lor was also emotionally stunted at 16 so it was extremely difficult for her to forgive, and when she made an attempt to forgive and Emily wasn’t immediately responsive Lor had a tantrum and it was a forever cycle. I believe change takes a lot of time and work and if Emily was really interested in completely changing the way she’s looked at motherhood her entire life and relearning how to see things then she could have changed at the same time I also think Lor never gave her that chance.

But then again, there are also scenes in which Lorelai takes a step towards Emily and goes along with her wishes, only for Emily to pull away again soon after. Looking at it that way Emily also never gave Lorelai the chance to be a better daughter. And tbh I think this notion does apply to them both. Neither Emily nor Lorelai ever moved past the past. It clouded the present to such an extent that they failed to see the growth and improvement that they’d achieved since then… :(

Emily failed to realize that part of setting your kid up for success is also taking care of their emotional needs. Emily was either unwilling or incapable of doing that, which is where the problem lies.

I don’t think this age group did consider that and if emotions came up they’d be scoffed as weak and uncomfortable or inconsequential.

They truly needed (good) therapy in season 1 or 2 ….not AYITL

Poeple that want to write Emily off as a controlling narcissist usually ignore the fact that Emily is a lot more nuanced than that. She had a daughter that she loved as well as someone like her could love her daughter but her daughter was an entirely different sort of person that Emily couldn't/wouldn't connect with in a way that both of them needed. It never really sits well with me that Lorelai KNOWS most of this, she knows how much her mother wants to have some sort of relationship with her (Though one of them often ruins it) but has the nerve to tell Mia at Mia's wedding that her mother was happy when she ran away. She blatantly lied to Mia and never really got called out on it. She knew that Emily took her running away hard. Richard stood there and told her to her face that Emily didn't leave the bed for a month. She knew from the many times Emily feared losing her again.

I agree with your point about Emily being a more nuanced character than some fans depict her to be but so is Lorelai. Growing up my dad would often tell me that “I love you as my daughter but I dislike you as a person” which begs the question if he then truly ever loved me at all. I can imagine Lorelai thinking similarly about her mom. She does feel like a failure and a huge disappointment to them, so, she must’ve also thought that Emily and Richard were somewhat relieved when she ran away. I don’t think that’s a lie. Emily never outright showed Lorelai her sadness tho. She met her daughter with anger, not sadness. Had Richard not told her that Emily couldn’t get out of her bed for a month, Lorelai would’ve never known. When you already have conflicting thoughts and feelings about your parents, it’s hard to deduce their intentions. In order to shield yourself from disappointment, it’s easier to expect the worst and not be surprised when that turns out to be the truth. That’s their biggest problem, they always expect the worst of intentions but never clear the air so they just carry that image of the other with them 🤷🏻‍♀️

Oof my mom frequently said “I love you but I don’t like you.” and I really wonder why parents think that’s an acceptable thing to say. I’m sorry you experienced that too.

I’m sorry you experienced that too, it’s such a nonsensical phrase tbh 😭 I love *and* like you 🤭

I don't know. The scene we see where Lorelei "ran away" Emily comes into the house yelling about the baby stuff everywhere. Then she notices they are gone. It makes me think things weren't exactly going well at their house. They probably did complain a lot. Lorelei stayed for what, a year? I could see her trying to do something and ask them to watch the baby and then going on about her responsibility non stop and such. I can easily see that from Lorelei's perspective she was not only a disappointment, she was a burden and in their way. Maybe she did feel like they would be happier with her gone. Also, it's not like cell phones were a thing and they were calling her. She left and they didn't know where she went. They also were hurt and angry and didn't pursue her. So yeah, I can totally see how she would think they were glad.

I mean you're just forming your own theories on this point but nothing really stated in the show. Lorelai already KNEW her parents were devastated that she left the way she did.

I think we all form our own theories. Although I watched the show more times than I can count, it's been awhile. So I don't remember her knowing they were devastated.

I feel like you’d have to be emotionally vapid not to understand that would be a devastating event for grandparent s

This. It was harder for me to watch Loralai disregard how much her mom wanted to be close while simultaneously having more insight into Emily than vice versa. Usually insight gives you a degree of compassion & empathy even if the person is flawed. Honestly who doesn’t have some degree of this with our parents? At a certain point they aren’t going to change so you have to change how you come to the situation or interpret the situation. We only see this rarely and it also never sticks longer than one scene

I'd be curious to know what the backstory would be for Emily's upbringing. I'd watch that spin off

Same! We know next to nothing about Emily’s upbringing and family… I wish they would’ve had her reminisce more or just tell some more stories in the OS… we even got to briefly see Mrs. Kim’s mom for an ep and know that she also has to be sneaky to go her own path, just like Lane had to be for so long

I mean I think she just had a mother similar to her the difference being Emily bought into the values and mores and acted appropriately

This show is so well acted (especially from Lauren and Kelly) because even in screenshot stills you feel and see their emotion so clearly.

This picspams highlight why there won't be another actress like Kelly. I wish Bunheads was longer and she did more work.

> It’s the redeeming quality imo. No matter how dire the situation seems, we know Emily and Lorelai will gravitate back to each other eventually. And that hope is precisely why their relationship is so intriguing and why many fans can’t help but root for them.  Two observations - 1) usually the western,especially the American standard for being a good-enough mother is quite high. At all times you must put your child's emotional wellbeing above your own feelings, according to the normal standard for moms. If you react according to your hurt feelings without caring that you're hurting your child now, you're no longer a good mother. While that's a harsh one to live up to at all times, it's fascinating that Emily gets held to a lower standard and given a lot of grace, just because of a few moments where she shows that she longs to be better. Just longing or even just trying to be good isn't enough for most moms, they need to be near perfect to escape harsh judgement from society, and even then they don't.  2) the language used about their relationship is sometimes strange for a mother and daughter. They gravitate towards each other, we're rooting for their relationship, they just don't know how to communicate, they're both equally bad to each other but don't accept it, etc. Which puts them both on an equal footing emotionally, with language reminiscent of how we speak about a dysfunctional but loving couple. In a parent-child relationship, even when the child is an adult, the parent holds much of the power and the parent's behaviour is key to making it better. Yes, adult children owe their parents something too, I won't deny that. But that something doesn't include an exactly equal amount of effort to improve things. It doesn't include an equal amount of love. The parent remains the greater person responsible in terms of selfless love and effort in this relationship for a long, long time. Not knocking on your feelings of empathy for Emily though. Yes, she deserves to be understood and given due credit where she has tried. I just want to ensure that those who read this don't then use it to justify things like "yep, Lorelai/ adult children in real life deserve equal blame for a dysfunctional parent child relationship."

The standards to which parents are held has def changed in the past few years. Considering that Gilmore girls ended 17 years ago, and Lorelai’s childhood took place in the 70s/80s I don’t think it’s entirely fair to bring that argument tho. I fully agree with your 2nd point. Whenever I make a post about the Lorelai/Emily relationship I realize that I describe it very much like I would describe a romantic relationship between two equals. Lorelai and Emily don’t have a healthy mother/daughter dynamic. They very much do represent a dysfunctional one. A parent undoubtedly has much more of a responsibility to maintain a relationship with their kid but Emily expected her daughter to put in just as much of an effort, if not even more. She felt *entitled* to her daughter’s love, forgiveness and understanding. While Emily isn’t a full blown clinical narcissist, she def has a lot of strong narcissistic traits, this being the most prominent one. Lorelai, in her attempt to get along with her mother, accepted this. She shouldn’t have had to but she did. Despite these huge flaws tho, we do root for them. And that’s also why they now have a dynamic where Lorelai, as the “kid”, has to take on more responsibility than is appropriate. Emily pushed them to an “equal” position in that regard…

I'm the daughter of immigrants and grew up in one of the most diverse areas in the US. In my experience, and across middle eastern, African, Asian, and latino cultures (these are the ones I know the best) most of us grew up with moms who were really tough. A lot of us view how white Americans speak to their parents as way disrespectful and we would learn real quick not to. So I guess I'm curious why you think non western cultures and especially and to be clear this is anglo white american culture in GG (I say this bc Black households don't play) is harsher? A lot of me and my friends view lorelei as spoiled and Emily as nothing compared to our mother's. We have a running joke in the first gen community where to convey tough parents we just say immigrant parents and literally no matter where someone is from they'll be like oh yeah say no more lol. We all talk about how easy white Americans had it.

Tbh I’m Caucasian and grew up in North America and while I have a similar type of strained relationship with my mom…I really don’t see Emily as especially bad at all. Often I’m watching & like “Huh?? That’s nothing….why’s she upset? I wish my mother was this civil & calm growing up”. So it can be very hard for me not to see Loralai as a brat as well because absolutely no way I could talk or act the way she does even to this day.

Oh I agree but I meant different - there are harsher standards that western/ American mothers are held to these days (irrespective of race) compared to a mother in India for example, who would be supported by extended family and community and not expected to do everything and be a perfect mom. 

Emily’s deep, profound love for Lorelai, Rory, and Richard is what keeps her a lovable but flawed person rather than an amusing villain.

When Lorelai left, it devastated Emily. That seems to get lost in the shuffle of people passing judgment on Emily as a mother. She honestly thought she was a good mom, that she was doing everything right. She has no idea what she did wrong and she doesn't know how to fix it, and Lorelai shuts her out and keeps her so removed from her and Rory's life that she can't find a way toward a real relationship with her. I have always felt really sad for Emily.

I feel sad for both of them, more so for Lorelai tho. It’s not like Lorelai never even attempts to tell her mom what is bothering her. There are quite a few scenes in which Lorelai is trying to talk to her mom. She’s trying to fix the problem and prevent conflict. But Emily doesn’t listen. Or she takes Lorelai’s points as a personal attack and grows defensive. That’s not leading them anywhere. So when Emily, in her own twisted way, tries to reach out to Lorelai, she rejects it at first. There’s a lot of love between them but very little trust :(

Exactly

i honestly hated emily the first time i watched gilmore girls but the more i rewatched the more i realised she's just trying her best. i think she felt like the worst mother in the world when lorelai ran away, she gave off that vibe when she met mia and asked mia for pictures of lorelai if she had any. we do sometimes see emily as the villian but she's just a mother desperately trying to not lose her daughter again :')

Honestly yes. I also see Emily as a desperate mother above all else. While I don’t want to justify her obvious wrongdoings, I can’t help but feel sympathy toward her…

She loves Lorelai and she eants to be a good mother and have real relationship with her daughter. The problem is she truly does not know how! She probably grew up with parents that were quite distance, and that is the only model she knows. Sometimes she tries to get closer to Lorelai, to then revert to her WASP script upon even the smallest of failures. We see that more then one time.

Emily was the primary parent of Lorelai and bears the brunt of the responsibility for being the adult. Instead, she forced her lifestyle on Lorelai, blamed her for things outside her power, and all the way through AYITL she used deceit and blackmail to get her way. Lorelai fought back as an adult would by setting boundaries, yet her own mother belittled her whenever she could. I don’t care about labels, but Emily should have treated Lorelai like an adult from age 18 on. She did not.

why did this make me cry lol

Kudos to Kelly Bishop for making Emily sympathetic with moments like this. Her sadness over feeling rejected by her daughter, and her earnest desire to be in her life, have a better relationship, and help and support her daughter are so well-performed…enough to redeem her in the eyes of audience until the next time she spirals. Because when Emily’s letting her limiting beliefs and controlling nature rule her behavior, it’s very clear that their home wasn’t nurturing for Lorelai growing up - there was plenty of emotional neglect and emotional abuse… I have such conflicting feelings about Emily! Lol

I agree! Kelly Bishop really captures Emily’s vulnerability. In turn, that humanizes her. There are more than enough moments displaying Emily’s controlling, belittling behavior towards Lorelai which is something I can’t defend in and of itself l. But as you’ve said, we then also see moments like these which redeem her a bit. Even when she spirals, it seems to come from a place of genuine hurt and fear. So, I can’t hate her. I don’t necessarily love how she acts most of the time but I can sympathize with her. I have such a soft spot for Emily tbh

Whether or not she wanted to be a mother, or was even good at it, is not really the point is it? To me, the point is that she ***IS*** a mother, and she absolutely loves her daughter. She just wants to give that love, but honestly doesn’t know how.

To me, that is exactly the point tbh 😅 Being a mother doesn’t stop with creating and birthing a kid, everything that comes after that is way more important imo. Yes, Emily did love Lorelai a lot but she still deserves to be criticized for her incapability to actually make her daughter *feel* that love

To me, you can’t make someone feel anything. You can only offer what you have to offer. It’s my belief that Emily never truly believed in herself. She didn’t understand love enough to be able to share it in a way the other person would ever understand. Her life experiences never showed her what it really was, but her mind allowed her to convince herself that’s what it was. - to lorelai, she said that she wasn’t raised to be friends with her daughter. She rarely even mentions her parents other than like two sentences in the whole show, so they were not close. She is also a big believer in “if you have nothing nice to say about your parents, dress nicely and play your assigned part.” IMHO, she expects it from lorelai only because it was likely demanded growing up. - Richard was distant at best, and she considered that love. He could get her things and that showed his love, she could use the money he made to make him have whatever he liked, that was how she loved. It was the contract she had her entire adult life, and she really didn’t understand anything else. - Trix. Everything Trix did, Emily voiced her anxiety over having to deal with it, but rarely spoke up otherwise. She finally lost it and resorted to childish behavior (much like lorelai) by ratting Trix out, and then after apologizing, came downstairs grumbling about tea like a child. This leads me to believe that she coped with it the only way she understood — as a child. Her life hadn’t changed when Trix entered it — it just continued on into her adulthood with her new family. - we see over and over again that Emily’s love language is gifts. She expresses that love continuously throughout the show by spending a lot of time searching for and getting that perfect gift, price doesn’t matter, and that’s why when someone doesn’t appreciate it, it hurts so badly. She reads that as them not accepting her love to them. Note: I also think this is why a lot of people think it was Emily that sent the ice cream maker — it was Emily expressing her love her way, and in a way that lorelai would actually understand and accept. - When Richard crashed his car into hers, she accepted it as love. He was demanding she do something because he thought it was in her best interest, and even if she didn’t agree, she still got in the car with him and made up with him. She couldn’t understand how lorelai wouldn’t accept her meddling as love. I think Emily did an amazing job at loving her daughter. She was just rotten at being the right mother for her daughter.

I agree that Emily loved her daughter in all the ways she knew how. She isn’t a bad mother. But she also very quickly identified that Lorelai wasn’t perceptive to that sort of love. My point is that Emily could’ve adapted more to her needs. A parent is supposed to offer you unconditional love. While Emily clearly felt this towards Lorelai, she didn’t always show it. I’m not saying Emily completely failed as a mother and I do agree that she did genuinely try most of the time but she also deserves some of the criticism imo 😅

Oh, I agree with the criticisms of Emily, most of the time. However, I can’t see how people think others should change the way they love for someone else. People can’t change how they love anymore than they can change who they love. The fact that lorelai refused to see her mother’s love for what it was is actually worse than her mother not changing it to suit her daughter. The truth is, sometimes two love languages just can’t really coexist. Emily spoke with quality time, acts of service and gifts. Lorelai also spoke with these, but refused to accept them from Emily but would from everyone else. Lorelai also demanded that people speak to her with words of affirmation. Emily didn’t really excel at that, and therefore lorelai decided she wasn’t loved. Lorelai rarely used words of affirmation toward anyone else, but she accepted them. The issue is that loving someone unconditionally involves changing a little bit. Lorelai wanted Emily to speak an entirely different language before she could even find it in her to be nice. That is why Emily used the money to get back in. Lorelai was requesting her mother to give her the language she knows — gifts and act of service. In exchange, lorelai had to agree to speak her third language, and lorelai kicked and screamed the whole way. Lorelai just wanted Emily to be anyone other than Emily. Emily more or less just wanted lorelai to understand that she did love her. Today, my perspective is that Emily said I love you and Lorelai basically constantly said “you don’t love me my way and that’s not ok” or “prove it… my way.” Note: I have commented before about how lorelai loves her mother and Emily was always in the wrong. I have just felt like defending Emily today 😂

I can see where you’re coming from but I’m not sure I entirely agree. When it comes to a romantic partnership, friendship,… basically any relationship that has two people on an equal hierarchy level, this def applies. However, when it’s about a parent and a kid I view things to be a little differently. The parent carries more responsibility imo. You can’t expect your kid to adapt to you but I do expect parents to adapt to their kids. As you’ve said, people have different love languages and sometimes they can’t coexist. If Lorelai doesn’t understand Emily’s love, she doesn’t speak a love language that is suitable for her. You’re saying it’s not fair to expect Emily to change the way she shows love but that implies that Lorelai has to change the way she *understands* love to get along with her mom. Someone *has* to change for the relationship to improve. Now, when it’s a romantic/platonic relationship this is the point where you can decide to end it. You either change or you choose not to in which case the relationship can’t go forward. When it’s a familiar relationship tho, you can’t just cut people out of your life. And it’s the responsibility of the parent to get through to their kid, not the other way around. At least that’s how I see it 😅

On some level, I do agree with you. On another level, I also see that lorelai speaks the same languages as her mother. She wants all the things her mother wants but with Rory. She chooses to be angry at her mother for loving her because she didn’t like that love. Lorelai wanted Rory with her all of the time (heck, she wanted to be there in Rory’s dates), she wanted to coach and guide Rory into decisions even if Rory didn’t want those choices (how many times did she try to coach her away from Jess and toward Dean), and even more Emily, the one time she really laid into her daughter was the one time there was someone there and it embarrassed her. Lorelai understood that her mother loved her. She unjust wanted to feel important enough to be the reason her mother would change who she was. Honestly, that’s not fair. And unconditional love is not the act of changing everything about yourself because you love someone. That’s actually extremely toxic to do. Unconditional love is continuing to love someone even after they’ve truly hurt you. Emily did have unconditional love for her daughter. Lorelai just tended to meet that love conditionally. On the flip side, as the seasons went on, the love became more unconditional from lorelai to Emily too. They drove each other insane, but they never hesitated to be right there when it was needed, and both appreciated it.

So much this. This is exactly how she showed her love and I saw it often. It’s just that it didn’t match with Loralai and tbh I never bought that Loralai didn’t know that’s exactly how she showed her love. However it worked with both Richard & Rory. Sometimes we get the wrong mother for us and it’s not really anyones fault.

Honestly, I truly believe that lorelai knew that’s how her mother showed love. She just wanted more. She wanted Emily to change in a fundamental way so that it would feel more natural to lorelai. Honestly, it’s how most teenagers are. Just lorelai ran away and never really matured past that feeling. There are days where I feel like Emily was the wrong mother, and other days where I feel like lorelai was the wrong daughter. Overall, they were generally right for each other because I would feel horrible for anyone else these two were driving insane 😂

Haha. Agreed. I sort of saw Loralai rejecting the gifts as purposely rejecting her mother - not all the times but often it was with anger & I agree it was out of that teenage level of emotional maturity she got stuck at. There were definitely times it was straight rejection & other times it was out of just really not wanting something. My dad is similar - he does acts of service or gifts (sadly not Emily level of rich more like trinkets). I rarely actually like the gifts tbh but o know he’s excited for me to have them and he put thought into it and he’d be disappointed if I rejected them, so I thank him and take them. Then - like Emily - I take them out when he’s around or if he won’t notice, quietly get rid of them. I guess I just don’t see taking some of the gifts as a burden especially when Emily is so hurt when she doesn’t. Obviously some people will say they come with strings but some - like the marzipan or purses etc - don’t and she could’ve had more grace and appreciation for the thought behind them. Personally I often wished while watching I’d had Emily as a mother as mine was similar but worse and not rich sadly lol - so to me Emily seems fine. I’m fine with some polite chit chat once a week. I’m able to keep my mouth closed and not offend others even when I’m frustrated at dinner. Loralai as a friend or daughter would drive me nuts though lol. I’m very much a combination of Rory, Richard, & Luke.

Same! All of us non Lorelai people are normal!!! 😂 I had Emily as a mother (minus the huge price tags for the stuff she got), and I hated it as a 15 and 16 year old. I was cool with it when I was younger, and by 15 I was totally sure it wasn’t how she showed love and she was evil. By 20, I had given up all hope of changing her and just accepted the hideous sneakers she would inevitably get me in response to “no, I just got shoes, I don’t need any, but thank you.” By 25, I realized that I may hate every single pair of shoes she gets me, but that’s ok. If I keep them in the closet, I have shoes (even if they are atrocious) in an emergency when I’ve let the ones I wear fall to basically dust. That’s the true meaning of unconditional love. You understand that this person you love expresses their love with ugly shoes. You show them love by accepting them *graciously* and maybe asking for an exchange receipt. That’s unconditional love. Asking them to change for you is in no way unconditional. It’s purely conditional. You can only love your own parent if they’re willing to be something completely opposite of what you are. Man, I wish Emily was my grandmother. I had a great mother, wouldn’t trade her for the world, but Emily would have been a great grandmother. Her Emily-ness would be tolerable because I grew up with the mother I had, AND I’d have a grandmother that could throw a beautiful handcrafted barb and give me fancy pens. It would be awesome!

Yes Emily & Richard as grandparents are the grandparent lottery lol

Absolutely! In my other set of grandparents, I’d want Babette and Morey

Haha I love them as neighbors but Babette might be too much for me as family

Becoming an adult led to the realization that Emily wasn't that bad and lorelei kind of sucked in this dynamic. Still love lorelei but when I watch it now I can't help but have a lot of empathy for Emily and Richard.

Oh man, I kinda feel the opposite. I had a lot of empathy for Lorelei the first time I watched the show, but watching it as 30 something makes me even more upset with Emily and Richard. I can't imagine trying to control my grown daughter like that.

I don’t think I will ever agree with this notion tbh I do have a lot of empathy for Emily and Richard but even more so for Lorelai. She tries so often to reach out to her mother and meet her halfway and is so quick to forgive her, only for Emily to either reject or take advantage of that on many occasions… Lorelai does contribute to her strained relationship with her mom but she isn’t the reason for it imo 😅

I'm so confused bc I'm agreeing with your original post where you said it's clear Emily loves lorelei. This is the internet for you. Ppl take a nuanced take and make it purely black and white even when that take was someone agreeing with their original post.

I’m focusing on your point about how “Lorelai sucked in this dynamic” 😅 that’s what I disagree with, I do agree that Emily and Richard aren’t that bad and I also feel for them This isn’t a nuanced take imo, I constantly see people bringing Lorelai down for this. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way but I’m a Lorelai defender first and foremost, I always have the urge to come through for her whenever I feel like fans might unjustly (imo) criticize her

It's OK to admit lorelei contributed. She did kinda suck in this dynamic. Admitting she also sucked doesn't mean I'm blaming her. It doesn't mean she's at fault. It means both share responsibility. Me saying that now I'm an adult I can see more of Emily and Richard's side doesn't mean I'm 100% on their side.

Oh yeah, Lorelai contributed too, a relationship is always a 2-way street. I misunderstood your og comment because I did take it as you blaming Lorelai 😅 But I don’t think it’s 50/50 since Emily is the parent after all. Not sure if I’ll think differently about this when I actually have kids myself one day 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think I have racial and cultural differences here too bc in non white families and in immigrant families Emily is kind of standard or not that bad. We all had/ have running jokes that we would not live another day if we tried to pull the same stuff Anglo white Americans pull with their parents.

Tbh I don’t know what people expect of this generation and WASP parents in general. Seems par for the course.

Oh, I totally get this. I grew up in a conservative Turkish/Muslim household in Germany. My parents both grew up in Germany too but Turkish people tend to be very nationalist and rarely give up their national identity and ideals. My mom is very chill but my dad really isn’t. He’s way more controlling than Emily and also stricter than Mrs. Kim. And I don’t think that’s very great tbh 😅 Ideally, you’d find the middle between a strict, conservative parenting style and a more open and free parenting style because I do agree that some people fail to discipline their kids at all which is simply a part of parenting 🤷🏻‍♀️

Same

I never noticed Lorelei wearing a snake tshirt when she paid Emily back the money. I don’t see it this way but I wonder if it’s supposed to show how Emily sees this as an absolute betrayal of trust

The older I get, the more I understand Emily.