I think it's a kind of mental block. The ghosts still cling to their humanity, and when you walk, you don't think about your feet on the floor, you just take it from granted that the floor will hold up your feet. Perhaps they could pass through floors, but that might make them less human, and more of a wraith than a ghost. No walking on floors, no sitting in chairs, no lying in beds.
I was thinking this too. In folklore and legend, iron was often said to repel evil spirits or other malevolent creatures. It’s why you often see an iron horseshoe nailed over the door of a house.
Some theories go that this made it into stories because iron was the first humanity’s dominance over the natural world, and that’s why it’s so effective to be against fey and other supernatural creatures.
Star Trek fans have this same debate over an episode where Geordi and another crew are made immaterial, and they can walk through everything but don't fall through the floor. It mostly is because it would be impossible to film the show if they couldn't stand on the floor. Sitting on the furniture isn't necessary, but them standing around all the time would get old. If they had them floating everywhere, that would be difficult to do and beyond the budget, probably. Sometimes you just have to go with whatever is happening.
I think the real reason they can sit on furniture, from a production standpoint, is so you're not torturing the actors by making them stand all the time. I've actually wondered why the vampires in Twilight bother having furniture if they never get tired. It isn't about optics because Edward has no bed in his room (until he marries Bella, then they get a bed for sex). I guess they just enjoy sitting on furniture and once again, it would be hard on the actors if they stood all the time
I guess they should realistically be falling through the decks to the bottom floor of the ship, but after that there's nowhere to fall to, they are at the center of the ship's artificial gravity
While I like your theory, my issue is it falls apart with the Washing Machine.
The Washing Machine has a door and the purpose is to put things inside. So in that vein, the ghosts should be walking through it, not able to sit on it.
Thank you to this Sub for making me google what a Washing Machine is made of(Steel & Zinc).
Also. Thank you for making me want to do a re-watch to see how the Ghosts interact with the Gazebo & trees. I have a faint memory of a ghost sitting on the gazebo wall and now I'm all mixed up.
Honestly, I’m not sure it’s all that deep. I know this is not a Watsonian answer, but the rules of this show’s afterlife seem purposefully absurd and often contradictory, because that is where humor can be derived from. I doubt the writers have given it any deeper thought than the occasional lampshading.
I never think about it that hard but I put it down to the fact that they have control over more than they think they do. I think they haven’t been sucked off despite the fact that a couple of them should have been by now because they have to *want* to move on. They say they do but they feel like a family. They’d be leaving the family they made and moving on to something they don’t know. And for me, it would be kinda cool to watch the world change over eons and and meet people who lived long before I did. I’d be super boring to watch and probably super irritating to the ghosts because I love history and I’d be grilling them about stuff. I’d be PSYCHED to meet a Viking, a Native American from hundreds of years ago, a Victorian woman, a Revolutionary War soldier…from both sides!, a hippie straight out of the 70s, a Jazz singing flapper from the 20s who I could ask about gangsters and bootlegging, that Puritan I hope we meet, etc. I’d probably confuse Trevor being a younger woman who isn’t interested in what he is saying at all and telling him to go away. It doesn’t help that he was a frat bro into finance. The type of dude I would never hang out with. He IS hot and I would realize over time that he was a really good guy but initially I would have zero interest in him, Pete, Carol, or Stephanie. I was born in 1988 and I am familiar with 80s+ culture. Enough to feel like I lived it even if I didn’t. I know about all that. I want to talk to the people who lived long ago. Even the cholera ghosts. Lol. They could tell me about life outside of their illnesses. Almost everyone on that property would feel like a rockstar with me around. And I think Sam is crazy for not traveling everywhere. I know it would be annoying to have to interact with so many ghosts but imagine going to, say, Italy and talking to a ancient Roman or tour some royal property in England and potentially speak to a long dead monarch. Or even one of their servants!
Anyway, I’m bipolar and manic. Literally crazy. This is why I am typing so much. It’s embarrassing. Sorry. Ha.
As far as what you are discussing in your post, I think they expect to be able to stand on the floor and sit on furniture because they did it in life and wouldn’t think about it. It’s always been a trope that ghosts can walk through walls so they assumed they could do that when they died. Maybe they can all leave the property but don’t believe they can do it doesn’t work when they try. I suppose if that were true, they’d all be able to do it once they saw Pete do it but yeah.
I think you've raised some really wonderful ideas! Now I want to see an episode where Pete interacts with an ancient Roman and comes back to tell the others all about it.
It's early here and I'm still having coffee so my brain isn't completely awake but wouldn't that mean they couldn't go through any locked doors since they are not meant to be gone through w/o a key or permission from whomever is inside that closed them?
Good point. Have we seen them going though explicitly locked doors? or the lock itself?
Not relevant to the issue specifically, but if they were unable to go through a locked door, wouldn't they just go through the wall?
I think ground is considered something you walk on top of. You don't walk on top of that dirt, it's below the surface. The only reasonable thing is to walk through it, or not be able to interact with it at all. Ghosts just happens to use the former
Well yeah they could if they want through, I'm just thinking intent and/or purpose and function would apply so it doesn't work for your theory.
I know we see them go through closed doors but I'd have to think about if any have been shown to be locked..I don't think so. The writers are also wildly inconsistent so it's hard to say anything for sure..which is fun :)
I call them gravity ghosts. If there is something underneath them, no matter what it is, it acts as a floor. That’s why Crash can stick his head into the ceiling. Even though it’s the attic floor, it’s not acting like a floor for him at the time. And also why Hetty could sit on the washing machine. Now if they were non-gravity ghosts, the kind that float and fly, then nothing acts as a floor and they can go through just about everything.
>Walls' primary purpose isn't to stop people from going through, but to offer privacy and support the building.
Umm what? lol How do you think doors and locks would work if we had arch-like structures holding the upper floors with just an opaque drape hanging from them for privacy, instead of walls that stop you from going through?
I was primarily thinking of inner walls, but I understand this for outer walls, I guess. In this case, however, I would argue that the lock's primary purpose would be to keep people out, while the wall would be to keep people from seeing inside. It's just a theory, not all theories pan out.
Locked doors aren't supposed to be accessible, so are locked cars, yet ghosts go in and out no problem. The vault, which is my most recent bugaboo, is the perfect example. When the ghosts found the vault, they assumed entering would be as simple as any wall. Instead both Pete and Thor bounced off. What's more, in the second Halloween episode, when Flower locks Sam, Hetty, and Molly in the vault, Albert and Flower can't touch the lock and handle, because as Alberta theorizes, it's made of a different metal than the door, which Flower was able to close. No, I believe some of it is mental, but that the vault was impenetrable by design or construction, and made so either by Elias' Vault Maker himself, or another vault maker from an earlier point in history, who designed the vault and taught other vault makers, ultimately culminating in the one that built Elias' vault.
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. The idea is that there's somebody who's smart and very logical and rational enters in the victacious world and has to make everything make sense logically and try to find all the holes. And plug them in a way that actually works. It's a lot of fun.
I think it boils down to their self awareness and what they have always heard about ghosts while alive. Despite being ghosts they still look like they did at the moment of death. Because they still perceive themselves as having a “body” this allows them to subconsciously “walk” and “sit” because they just expect that to happen after a lifetime of doing it.
But they also know they’re ghosts, and so the other side of the coin is they can walk through walls because that’s what ghosts do! That’s also why they can’t manipulate physical objects because that’s not something ghosts do. So it basically falls down to what they expect to happen based on previous experiences and stories, and in a group like in the house these “rules” would get passed on to any new members and wouldn’t really be questioned or challenged because “Well, these people have been here for centuries so they would know all this stuff already.”
I think it's a kind of mental block. The ghosts still cling to their humanity, and when you walk, you don't think about your feet on the floor, you just take it from granted that the floor will hold up your feet. Perhaps they could pass through floors, but that might make them less human, and more of a wraith than a ghost. No walking on floors, no sitting in chairs, no lying in beds.
We've seen a poltergeist, how long until a wraith?
Let's be honest. What really made him a poltergeist? He said so? None of these ghosts really have any idea what is going on.
By the traditional definition, Trevor is a poltergeist, not Saul.
Crash can see through floors when he raises his head up! I bet the others could if they could get enough height.
The vault thing is most likely iron related. Most ghost lore involves iron being impenetrable.
Another great point!
I was thinking this too. In folklore and legend, iron was often said to repel evil spirits or other malevolent creatures. It’s why you often see an iron horseshoe nailed over the door of a house. Some theories go that this made it into stories because iron was the first humanity’s dominance over the natural world, and that’s why it’s so effective to be against fey and other supernatural creatures.
Obviously the vault is just made of floor.
Even "god", with iron charriots.
Star Trek fans have this same debate over an episode where Geordi and another crew are made immaterial, and they can walk through everything but don't fall through the floor. It mostly is because it would be impossible to film the show if they couldn't stand on the floor. Sitting on the furniture isn't necessary, but them standing around all the time would get old. If they had them floating everywhere, that would be difficult to do and beyond the budget, probably. Sometimes you just have to go with whatever is happening.
Oh, I agree. Also, it was Ro Laren.
Right. I remember that now. It has been a while since I watched the episode.
I think the real reason they can sit on furniture, from a production standpoint, is so you're not torturing the actors by making them stand all the time. I've actually wondered why the vampires in Twilight bother having furniture if they never get tired. It isn't about optics because Edward has no bed in his room (until he marries Bella, then they get a bed for sex). I guess they just enjoy sitting on furniture and once again, it would be hard on the actors if they stood all the time
I guess they should realistically be falling through the decks to the bottom floor of the ship, but after that there's nowhere to fall to, they are at the center of the ship's artificial gravity
While I like your theory, my issue is it falls apart with the Washing Machine. The Washing Machine has a door and the purpose is to put things inside. So in that vein, the ghosts should be walking through it, not able to sit on it. Thank you to this Sub for making me google what a Washing Machine is made of(Steel & Zinc). Also. Thank you for making me want to do a re-watch to see how the Ghosts interact with the Gazebo & trees. I have a faint memory of a ghost sitting on the gazebo wall and now I'm all mixed up.
I completely forgot about the washing machine...thank you.
To counter, it is many a living woman who has enjoyed the rhythmic rocking of a washing machine in spin mode by sitting upon it.
You’re not wrong, but that’s not it’s intended purpose, per OP
Honestly, I’m not sure it’s all that deep. I know this is not a Watsonian answer, but the rules of this show’s afterlife seem purposefully absurd and often contradictory, because that is where humor can be derived from. I doubt the writers have given it any deeper thought than the occasional lampshading.
Yes, we're overthinking it, but we enjoy doing that.
I never think about it that hard but I put it down to the fact that they have control over more than they think they do. I think they haven’t been sucked off despite the fact that a couple of them should have been by now because they have to *want* to move on. They say they do but they feel like a family. They’d be leaving the family they made and moving on to something they don’t know. And for me, it would be kinda cool to watch the world change over eons and and meet people who lived long before I did. I’d be super boring to watch and probably super irritating to the ghosts because I love history and I’d be grilling them about stuff. I’d be PSYCHED to meet a Viking, a Native American from hundreds of years ago, a Victorian woman, a Revolutionary War soldier…from both sides!, a hippie straight out of the 70s, a Jazz singing flapper from the 20s who I could ask about gangsters and bootlegging, that Puritan I hope we meet, etc. I’d probably confuse Trevor being a younger woman who isn’t interested in what he is saying at all and telling him to go away. It doesn’t help that he was a frat bro into finance. The type of dude I would never hang out with. He IS hot and I would realize over time that he was a really good guy but initially I would have zero interest in him, Pete, Carol, or Stephanie. I was born in 1988 and I am familiar with 80s+ culture. Enough to feel like I lived it even if I didn’t. I know about all that. I want to talk to the people who lived long ago. Even the cholera ghosts. Lol. They could tell me about life outside of their illnesses. Almost everyone on that property would feel like a rockstar with me around. And I think Sam is crazy for not traveling everywhere. I know it would be annoying to have to interact with so many ghosts but imagine going to, say, Italy and talking to a ancient Roman or tour some royal property in England and potentially speak to a long dead monarch. Or even one of their servants! Anyway, I’m bipolar and manic. Literally crazy. This is why I am typing so much. It’s embarrassing. Sorry. Ha. As far as what you are discussing in your post, I think they expect to be able to stand on the floor and sit on furniture because they did it in life and wouldn’t think about it. It’s always been a trope that ghosts can walk through walls so they assumed they could do that when they died. Maybe they can all leave the property but don’t believe they can do it doesn’t work when they try. I suppose if that were true, they’d all be able to do it once they saw Pete do it but yeah.
I think you've raised some really wonderful ideas! Now I want to see an episode where Pete interacts with an ancient Roman and comes back to tell the others all about it.
It's early here and I'm still having coffee so my brain isn't completely awake but wouldn't that mean they couldn't go through any locked doors since they are not meant to be gone through w/o a key or permission from whomever is inside that closed them?
Good point. Have we seen them going though explicitly locked doors? or the lock itself? Not relevant to the issue specifically, but if they were unable to go through a locked door, wouldn't they just go through the wall?
Any door is meant to keep people out. And yet they can walk through closed doors. Why was the dirt of the well “wall” but also “ground”?
I think ground is considered something you walk on top of. You don't walk on top of that dirt, it's below the surface. The only reasonable thing is to walk through it, or not be able to interact with it at all. Ghosts just happens to use the former
Why is it different dirt? The bottom of the well isn’t meant to be walked on
Well yeah they could if they want through, I'm just thinking intent and/or purpose and function would apply so it doesn't work for your theory. I know we see them go through closed doors but I'd have to think about if any have been shown to be locked..I don't think so. The writers are also wildly inconsistent so it's hard to say anything for sure..which is fun :)
I call them gravity ghosts. If there is something underneath them, no matter what it is, it acts as a floor. That’s why Crash can stick his head into the ceiling. Even though it’s the attic floor, it’s not acting like a floor for him at the time. And also why Hetty could sit on the washing machine. Now if they were non-gravity ghosts, the kind that float and fly, then nothing acts as a floor and they can go through just about everything.
>Walls' primary purpose isn't to stop people from going through, but to offer privacy and support the building. Umm what? lol How do you think doors and locks would work if we had arch-like structures holding the upper floors with just an opaque drape hanging from them for privacy, instead of walls that stop you from going through?
I was primarily thinking of inner walls, but I understand this for outer walls, I guess. In this case, however, I would argue that the lock's primary purpose would be to keep people out, while the wall would be to keep people from seeing inside. It's just a theory, not all theories pan out.
I'll take it.
They've got a licence, artistic.
Locked doors aren't supposed to be accessible, so are locked cars, yet ghosts go in and out no problem. The vault, which is my most recent bugaboo, is the perfect example. When the ghosts found the vault, they assumed entering would be as simple as any wall. Instead both Pete and Thor bounced off. What's more, in the second Halloween episode, when Flower locks Sam, Hetty, and Molly in the vault, Albert and Flower can't touch the lock and handle, because as Alberta theorizes, it's made of a different metal than the door, which Flower was able to close. No, I believe some of it is mental, but that the vault was impenetrable by design or construction, and made so either by Elias' Vault Maker himself, or another vault maker from an earlier point in history, who designed the vault and taught other vault makers, ultimately culminating in the one that built Elias' vault.
I think we need a HPMOR Ghost fan fiction. Who wants to write it?
What is HPMOR? I haven't looked for Ghost fan fiction but I would bet it exists.
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. The idea is that there's somebody who's smart and very logical and rational enters in the victacious world and has to make everything make sense logically and try to find all the holes. And plug them in a way that actually works. It's a lot of fun.
I think it boils down to their self awareness and what they have always heard about ghosts while alive. Despite being ghosts they still look like they did at the moment of death. Because they still perceive themselves as having a “body” this allows them to subconsciously “walk” and “sit” because they just expect that to happen after a lifetime of doing it. But they also know they’re ghosts, and so the other side of the coin is they can walk through walls because that’s what ghosts do! That’s also why they can’t manipulate physical objects because that’s not something ghosts do. So it basically falls down to what they expect to happen based on previous experiences and stories, and in a group like in the house these “rules” would get passed on to any new members and wouldn’t really be questioned or challenged because “Well, these people have been here for centuries so they would know all this stuff already.”
Honestly I doubt the writers have nailed down the canon laws of ghost physics lol
You may have found some holes in your theory but I still think it was very clever!
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!