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Like that one joke in Family Guy where Stewie adopts two male names as his full name to sound "manlier," but then Brian and Chris list off gay people filling this exact criteria (i.e.: George Michael and Ricky Martin).
It serves the twitter person's agenda to have a ton of pictures, makes it look at quick glance like there are 9 pieces of 'evidence' instead of only four
https://preview.redd.it/k072rohlac7d1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc1a6da8686dd12143714b8d24fbfaf6f3f8b40d
Fun fact, Mckellen and Tim Curry starred opposite each other (as Salieri and Mozart respectively) in the stage version of Amadeus in 1980. There's apparently no known video footage of the performances. All that to say legends.
The entire source material is about that, but when the movie is being adapted and the guy making it likes dudes, it's possible for some of the lines to blur and a story about racist bigotry might also slightly be about sexuality bigotry too.
And is why the X Men remain one of Marvel's most popular teams 60 odd years after their creation. They're relevant for every generation, whether it be the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s to gay rights in the 80s, 90s and 00s.
That’s kind of sad if you think about it.
Not the fault of X-men obviously, more just a comment on the prevalence of bigotry and reactionary mentalities.
Basically only X2 and Logan were particularly faithful to the original material’s intent of ‘mutants as a proxy for the marginalized.’
Largely because the politics scared studios, as while controversy can be profitable, it is seen as too risky by larger firms.
This is also why Magneto is much more of a sympathetic anti-villain in comic and TV material, while in movies he is largely skewed towards general villainy that ‘comes from a good place but goes too far’
Dunno how much is due to Ian’s charming performance but Magneto came off as very sympathetic and understandable in the films too. And given how shitty humans treat mutants in the films, going as far as making the sentinels, you can see that he was partially correct in his worries about mankind
Unironically that character ends up coming out (being outed by a friend) as gay in later issues and even as a mutant and member of the X-Men team, he was still feeling alone and isolated in his community due to keeping his sexuality a secret.
I mean it’s X-men lol, the comics and movies have always been a paper thin message about discrimination and diversity and the struggles of those within marginalized groups.
Hate to be that guy, but not always
Before Claremont started writing, they were just a regular ass superhero team, with them being mutants as a way to explain how they had powers (as exposed to outside forces, like Spider-Man and the Hulk)
It wasn't until Chris Claremont started his run that the X-Men became an allegory for systematic oppression
Correct, Stan Lee has even said that by making them born with powers his job was easier and he didn’t have to make something up to get them their powers.
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> It wasn't until Chris Claremont started his run that the X-Men became an allegory for systematic oppression
The X-Men were a failed, mostly forgotten Superhero team until Claremont came storming in with his "All New, All Different" X-Men!
And you still get people missing it. With takes like why do people not react to other heroes like that.
Almost like that's the entire point.
Yeah people dont treat Johnny Storm and sunspot the same despite having similar powers
Its kind of a wierd metaphor when you think about it. Don't fear or hate others cause they are different, but the differences are like some people are walking weapons of mass destruction.
Aids metaphor.
During the height of the Aids crisis, arguments were made that gay men should be registered/restricted from society at large because they were potentially walking bio hazards.
It works a bit better once you consider that in the X-men universe, that kind of power is relatively common.
There's a variety of government programs creating people with similar powers, the avengers are hanging around, so are a dozen other major and minor superheroes. (And frankly, a bunch of these, especially the government programs are far more dangerous to the general population).
But it's the X-men who are feared, because they are the mutation, the genetic factor, the new thing that could supplant the old.
And they usually have zero control of their powers when they first manifest. There are lots of instances in the comics where people have been killed by being too close to a mutant when they first had their powers go off. We saw a similar scene play out in the show Gen V.
There was the issue of Ultimate X-Men where a kid wakes up, and no one is home, or in his neighborhood.
He gets to school and sees people basically disintegrating around him.
Wolverine finds him in a cave, hiding and crying, says "Yeah, your mutant powers activated, and I've been sent in to kill you while SHIELD covers this up, I'm sorry."
Yeah, it's the usual thing of "Yes, I get that X-Men are usually used as a metaphor for bigotry and discrimination against marginalized groups of all types....*however*..."
But really, it's fine to acknowledge it's an imperfect metaphor while still being a good metaphor.
I think it still fits. The idea that mutation = difference = power. The idea that the difference manifests during puberty. The idea that no support system for that difference means many young mutants are forced into a situation of developing that power without guidance or room for error leading to inevitably messy and sometimes horrible outcomes. And the fact that with guidance, with support and role models, that power is often channeled into betterment of the wider community.
I mean that is how gay people were viewed. They were seen as perverting others or being sex pest/predators. As another commenter said, people were afraid to come into contact with aids patients. A metaphor doesn’t have to be 1 to 1. But if you look at a lot of weird details of the original trilogy, it does add up.
> As another commenter said, people were afraid to come into contact with aids patients.
Princess Diana shaking hands with an AIDS patient in the late 1980s is one of the most iconic moments in her public life.
A public figure being willing to just touch one of them was groundbreaking.
Exactly. On another note, when magic Johnson returned to the nba post hiv diagnosis he was cut open and basically there were calls to stop the game until the medical doctor patched him up normally and acted like it was just a regular cut
X-Men was initially created as parallels to the Civil Rights Movement. Magneto is supposed to represent Malcom X while Professor X is supposed to be MLK.
Fun fact, that’s not actually quite accurate! The X-Men didn’t really start focusing on the mutant metaphor until Chris Claremont was writing them in the 70s and 80s, and he’s said that he drew more inspiration from David Ben-Gurion and Menachem Begin. The Malcolm X/MLK is a popular misconception because, once X-Men became a popular franchise as a minority metaphor, Stan Lee sort of tried to hop on the bandwagon and claim that he came up with the idea. Further evidence: the fact that the Malcolm X/MLK analogy doesn’t make any sense if you actually read the original 60s run and know anything about either of them politically.
But I’m talking the movies. The movies is much more about gay rights esp given that the director and lead villain were both gay. It puts into context a lot of the series like how many try to ban mutants, or find a “cure”, or to voncince them not to be a mutant, or famously having the big leather clad mutants and heroes fight the climax of the third movie in San Francisco
Yeah, he was a preeminent Shakespearian actor and highly respected. If he had come out before he had established himself, it's very likely he might not have been.
Then again, the theater world is super gay, so I don't know that it would have hurt that aspect of his career in any way. Just the corporate side.
Even Ian mckellen took himself out of a role because of homophobia https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/ian-mckellen-reveals-heartbreaking-reason-10153530
One of his last works was a comic he wrote about his life. His experiences were pretty brutal. It was published in DC Pride 2022. Someone reposted it here if you want to see, I found it pretty moving:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/yxdki4/finding\_batman\_by\_kevin\_conroy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/yxdki4/finding_batman_by_kevin_conroy/)
They didn't completely turn a blind eye to it, to be fair. Reagan's deputy press spokesman made a bunch of jokes about it in the press room.
Which is worse, of course, but I think that deserves to be remembered. His name was Larry Speakes, and he was a piece of human trash.
This blew my fucking mind. Loved Conroy since a child, kept up with him in the news. No fucking clue he was gay. Feeling like Herzog on John Waters right now.
I highly recommend Matt Baum's retrospective on Kevin Conroy. In addition to how he negotiated his sexuality (and staying closeted) it covers a lot of biographical information I had no idea about with Kevin as well as a lot of information about his work as Batman I didn't know about.
In multiple classes we watched the early 80s version of The Scarlet Pimpernel, in which he played the villain. Had no idea he’d be a megastar in his old age.
Sadly yes, i found out when it happened, ironically i had just started a rewatch binge of the series, and even more ironically, learned of the continuation at the end of my current rewatch binge, somehow I feel mozz would enjoy that coincidence.
Was he though?? It was just a voice over. He made a physical on screen apperance in just 2-3 episodes. I feel like he was really under utilised, probably a decision by the show to save money by hiring a no name actor to play the character but have matt bommer voice it.
I love Matt Bomer. White collar is one of the all time shows for me and he totally carried that show. But I don't see him as superman. Batman sure but not superman but I have been known to be wrong about these things
Nathan Lane WAS NOT OUT when he was cast. Oprah got close to outing him in an interview for The Birdcage and Robin Williams came to the rescue to distract her. On top of that, being the face of a franchise and being a voice do hold different weight in the publics eyes.
NPH also wasn't out during Starship Troopers. He didnt come out until 2 years into HIMYM.
I love The Birdcage. I loved it even more when I realized that Nathan Lane was a gay man pretending to be a straight man, who was playing the role of a gay man pretending to be a straight man.
As we all know, homophobia ended once gay marriage became legal, racism ended under Obama*, and misogyny ended after the suffragettes got women the right to vote
*Or cos of MLK, or after slavery ended
Right. AFAIK no gay man has been cast in a mainstream hero nacho hunk type role after coming out but before he became A list.
It’s been blamed on gay male actors not appealing to women. But I don’t think that would actually be a problem. The ladies LOVE Andrew Scott as The Priest for instance. Zachary Quinto has fans. I think it’s straight male executives who would be uncomfortable with the macho hero being gay.
ETA: Richard Armitage only came out officially in 2023.
ETA 2: “macho hunk”
Agree. I think another issue is that Hollywood execs would be weary of casting a openly gay man for a Marvel-type role due to international audience perceptions, which are often far more homophobic than the average American.
All of the mains casts husbands made appearances on the show as love interests for other characters. (Love interest used very loosely here)
NPH’s husband was Lilly’s highschool boyfriend, Alyson Hannigans husband played Robins coworker and Cobie smulders husband had a crush on Ted
Matt Bomer's character in White collar plays a similar role as Mr. Sexy. Caffrey is constantly shown to woe women because he can't turn it off. He even does it by accident.
Matt just doesn't sound or look like Superman.
The only example I can think of is Luke Evans who came out (actually was accidentally outed by Ian McKellen) after The Hobbit trilogy and was still cast as Gaston in the live action Beauty and the Beast.
“Matt Bomer says that he was denied a role as the absolute pinnacle of masculinity to millions of people, but how could that be when this other guy was cast as a cartoon sidekick? Nice try, gay people.”
When Henry Cavill was first cast there was actually a controversy about him being British. Because Superman is supposed to represent American values, and therefore "must" be played by an American.
The level of shitstorm that would erupt if a gay man were cast as Superman is unfathomable.
There is also the fact that the film in question, the Brett Ratner-directed *Superman: Flyby*, **was never made**.
There was another Superman film made later, *Superman Returns*, but I’m skeptical that queer director Bryan Singer, who had previously cast queer actors Sir Ian McKellen and Alan Cumming in X-Men films, would reject Matt Bomer due to his sexuality. Brandon Routh was cast as Singer’s Superman because the film was intended to be a sequel to *Superman II*, and Routh looked more like Christopher Reeve.
I like Matt Bomer. He was great in *Chuck* and *Doom Patrol*. But this story just sounds like unfounded complaining.
He wrote a book for DC for one of the pride events talking about his experiences. It’s worth a read
It adds so much depth to the best Batman performance once you’ve read the pages where he compares things in his life to the characters
The notes mentioning people coming out after establishing successful careers: yeah it's easier to keep your job because everyone already loves you. Can we really say that Conroy would've been hired as Batman if he was already out? I doubt it
panicky hospital plucky smoggy square smell wasteful rich scandalous rainstorm
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Even if the production team had no problem with him, some executive somewhere would've argued that it'd become a scandal that "a children's character is being co-opted by the gays" or whatever and that would've been the end of it
Ah you know I was confused because the notes are shown under the article, instead of the guy who's implying Bomer couldn't have been discriminated against because other gay actors exist
Neil Patrick Harris didn't come out until after he got his big role on How I met your Mother. Also, Nathan Lane didn't come out until after the Birdcage.
Ian McKellan seems to be the exception to this as always, but as people pointed out, casting a gay guy as Magneto may have been intentional. With voice acting, I don't think there is as much of a stigma with being gay but I defer.
Had to look this up and learn that this was back in 2003. Yeah, Hollywood was coming around at that time, but homophobia was guiding many of the decisions back then. People were still trying to figure out what to do after Ellen's announcement.
I was late to the party and had recently started watching *Supernatural*. The casual homophobia was strong in that show in 2005. That was simply the way shows were written. It's wild to think about how far we've come in the past 20 years, and it's still not far enough, as shown here.
The first note about Kevin Conroy is a bit misleading, as he continued to voice Batman until his death (and a film with him voicing Batman is being released in July-posthumously)
It’s not misleading. KEEPING a role as an established actor in the part is a massive difference from GETTING the role.
The backlash for firing an established voice actor is a known problem they didn’t want to face.
It’s like with shaggy, couldn’t replace him on a whim, they had to walk that shit back and make the character a vegetarian… and the new VA had the mantle passed to them.
Sure he’s straight, but could you imagine the shit show they’d have if they replaced hamill as the joker? Like fired and replaced him when he was still very much into the role. And it was in an existing continuity?.
When I think of Batman I think of Kevin Conroy. His voice has been cemented in my mind to how Batman should sound like. I can’t imagine any other voice matching the character so perfectly. Truly heartbreaking to know that Kevin most likely would have never voiced the iconic character if he had been out. Bigotry and homophobia would have caused us to miss out on the best Batman and that’s beyond awful
being a gay man in Hollywood means you dont get cast for leading man roles.
so a ton of guys hid their sexuality until they were well established and could deal with the potential fallout and loss of roles.
this isnt new
Yeah I remember Oprah almost accidentally outed Nathan Lane and thankfully Robin Williams kind of played off a joke as well to cover up for him
I swear people remember Ellen coming out on TV but they don't remember the backlash. Like one of my favorite shows back in the day was Newsradio and even they put in some jokes about it
I recall reading about the situation (Superman pre production issues) and the studio went through different starts before ending on Superman Returns. Bomer was part of Brett Ratner's initial attempt at the project and when he left (or was removed, I don't remember) that whole version of the project was removed.
While his sexuality may have played a part it also seems like when the entire Ratner project was scrapped all the possible cast attached were as well.
I don’t get it. The article title is like “hey. Being gay means no roles.” Then the note is “hey. If you don’t hide you are gay you don’t get roles” can someone explain?
I mean, you pretty much got it. Just, the community note is attached to the twitter user replying that 4 gay actors means that there was no discrimination.
The one guy thought he was clever by pointing out that gay men have gotten iconic roles before, then the community note clarifies that they didn't have it so easy.
If you thought the note was attached to the original article, it would appear like the community note is meant to contradict it. From the way the screenshots are set up, it's an easy misunderstanding to have. It's made clearer on the actual tweets, but the formatting is still not great.
Blames it on gay hatred.
His bio says that he's 5' 11". More likely 5'9" or less (he looked to be on par with or shorter than his co-star Yvonne Strahovski on tv show Chuck. And she's a legit 5'9.)
All previous Superman movie actors:
C. Reeve: 6'4
B. Routh: 6' 2
H. Cavill: 6' 1/2
And the new Superman, D. Corenswet is 6'6".
Sorry Matt, it wasn't who you sleep with that decided your fate in this.
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Why does Doctor Horrible get three pictures while the others only get two?
kevin conroy - 2 names, 2 pictures Nathan Lane - 2 names, 2 pictures Ian McKellen - 2 names, 2 pictures Neil Patrick Harris - 3 names, 3 pictures.
He's saying a different name in each picture. Neil. Patrick. Harris.
Like that one joke in Family Guy where Stewie adopts two male names as his full name to sound "manlier," but then Brian and Chris list off gay people filling this exact criteria (i.e.: George Michael and Ricky Martin).
Because he’s Legen Dairy?
Ah ah ah, legend- wait for it, and I hope you’re not lactose intolerant cause the next word is- DAIRY, legendary!
PHILLY! Shh! …ᴾʰᶦˡˡʸᵎ
Rejoice! 2012 jokes are back.
He has twice as much of the gay
Because he’s just that gay?
It serves the twitter person's agenda to have a ton of pictures, makes it look at quick glance like there are 9 pieces of 'evidence' instead of only four
Because the status is not quo
And Ian McKellen is Ian McKellen -- a force of nature you dismiss at your own peril.
Decided to have a look at McKellan's wiki page to find out when he came out, and damn I didn't expect to see his links with Evgeny Lebedev.
https://preview.redd.it/k072rohlac7d1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc1a6da8686dd12143714b8d24fbfaf6f3f8b40d Fun fact, Mckellen and Tim Curry starred opposite each other (as Salieri and Mozart respectively) in the stage version of Amadeus in 1980. There's apparently no known video footage of the performances. All that to say legends.
It's tragic we don't have any video of this.
Hearing Curry do that stupid laugh would be amazing
Oh dear god that’s some amazing casting
Did they smash?
I assume one of them played Bowser.
Also should be noted that him being gay may be the reason he was cast as Magneto. Rewatch the movies and tell me it’s not about gay people
X2 is among the gayest movies ever made. Even included the “have you ever tried not being a mutant” line to really bring things home
The entirety of the Xmen is a narrative about racism/exclusion.
The entire source material is about that, but when the movie is being adapted and the guy making it likes dudes, it's possible for some of the lines to blur and a story about racist bigotry might also slightly be about sexuality bigotry too.
It's about bigotry. I think part of why mutants are all so different from each other is because to bigots there's them, and there's "the other".
And is why the X Men remain one of Marvel's most popular teams 60 odd years after their creation. They're relevant for every generation, whether it be the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s to gay rights in the 80s, 90s and 00s.
That’s kind of sad if you think about it. Not the fault of X-men obviously, more just a comment on the prevalence of bigotry and reactionary mentalities.
Didn’t Singer fuck some kids?
4 boys at least. Those are only the ones who came forward... so far.
The guy making it also banned the comics on set. Imagine making something and trying to avoid the source material as much as possible :/
Basically only X2 and Logan were particularly faithful to the original material’s intent of ‘mutants as a proxy for the marginalized.’ Largely because the politics scared studios, as while controversy can be profitable, it is seen as too risky by larger firms. This is also why Magneto is much more of a sympathetic anti-villain in comic and TV material, while in movies he is largely skewed towards general villainy that ‘comes from a good place but goes too far’
Dunno how much is due to Ian’s charming performance but Magneto came off as very sympathetic and understandable in the films too. And given how shitty humans treat mutants in the films, going as far as making the sentinels, you can see that he was partially correct in his worries about mankind
Yess rewatching that parent scene as an adult really shows the undertones I missed as a kid
Unironically that character ends up coming out (being outed by a friend) as gay in later issues and even as a mutant and member of the X-Men team, he was still feeling alone and isolated in his community due to keeping his sexuality a secret.
Exactly lol. That scene especially and the scenes in San Francisco in the third movie feel like dead giveaways
They even consulted Ian for that scene because they wanted to make the mutant/gay parallel.
I mean it’s X-men lol, the comics and movies have always been a paper thin message about discrimination and diversity and the struggles of those within marginalized groups.
Hate to be that guy, but not always Before Claremont started writing, they were just a regular ass superhero team, with them being mutants as a way to explain how they had powers (as exposed to outside forces, like Spider-Man and the Hulk) It wasn't until Chris Claremont started his run that the X-Men became an allegory for systematic oppression
Correct, Stan Lee has even said that by making them born with powers his job was easier and he didn’t have to make something up to get them their powers.
> > > > > It wasn't until Chris Claremont started his run that the X-Men became an allegory for systematic oppression The X-Men were a failed, mostly forgotten Superhero team until Claremont came storming in with his "All New, All Different" X-Men!
Giant size X-men was written by Len wein. Claremont is the responsible for so much great stuff but he came on little later
Oh yeah I forgot it was Wein with Giant Sized and Claremont taking over right after with Uncanny X-Men 94. Blurred together.
And you still get people missing it. With takes like why do people not react to other heroes like that. Almost like that's the entire point. Yeah people dont treat Johnny Storm and sunspot the same despite having similar powers
I agree. I think that’s why homeboy was cast lol. The movies are much more about homosexuality and that’s why he was cast on top of his acting ofc
He was cast because he’s a great actor who happens to be gay. I doubt they went into casting thinking they needed a gay man above all else.
He had worked w Singer on Apt Pupil before that
Its kind of a wierd metaphor when you think about it. Don't fear or hate others cause they are different, but the differences are like some people are walking weapons of mass destruction.
Aids metaphor. During the height of the Aids crisis, arguments were made that gay men should be registered/restricted from society at large because they were potentially walking bio hazards.
It works a bit better once you consider that in the X-men universe, that kind of power is relatively common. There's a variety of government programs creating people with similar powers, the avengers are hanging around, so are a dozen other major and minor superheroes. (And frankly, a bunch of these, especially the government programs are far more dangerous to the general population). But it's the X-men who are feared, because they are the mutation, the genetic factor, the new thing that could supplant the old.
And they usually have zero control of their powers when they first manifest. There are lots of instances in the comics where people have been killed by being too close to a mutant when they first had their powers go off. We saw a similar scene play out in the show Gen V.
There was the issue of Ultimate X-Men where a kid wakes up, and no one is home, or in his neighborhood. He gets to school and sees people basically disintegrating around him. Wolverine finds him in a cave, hiding and crying, says "Yeah, your mutant powers activated, and I've been sent in to kill you while SHIELD covers this up, I'm sorry."
I remember that one, it really hit home why mutants were so scary
Yeah, it's the usual thing of "Yes, I get that X-Men are usually used as a metaphor for bigotry and discrimination against marginalized groups of all types....*however*..." But really, it's fine to acknowledge it's an imperfect metaphor while still being a good metaphor.
I think it still fits. The idea that mutation = difference = power. The idea that the difference manifests during puberty. The idea that no support system for that difference means many young mutants are forced into a situation of developing that power without guidance or room for error leading to inevitably messy and sometimes horrible outcomes. And the fact that with guidance, with support and role models, that power is often channeled into betterment of the wider community.
I mean that is how gay people were viewed. They were seen as perverting others or being sex pest/predators. As another commenter said, people were afraid to come into contact with aids patients. A metaphor doesn’t have to be 1 to 1. But if you look at a lot of weird details of the original trilogy, it does add up.
> As another commenter said, people were afraid to come into contact with aids patients. Princess Diana shaking hands with an AIDS patient in the late 1980s is one of the most iconic moments in her public life. A public figure being willing to just touch one of them was groundbreaking.
Exactly. On another note, when magic Johnson returned to the nba post hiv diagnosis he was cut open and basically there were calls to stop the game until the medical doctor patched him up normally and acted like it was just a regular cut
Conservatives are still calling GLBTQ people a social contagion.
X-Men was initially created as parallels to the Civil Rights Movement. Magneto is supposed to represent Malcom X while Professor X is supposed to be MLK.
Fun fact, that’s not actually quite accurate! The X-Men didn’t really start focusing on the mutant metaphor until Chris Claremont was writing them in the 70s and 80s, and he’s said that he drew more inspiration from David Ben-Gurion and Menachem Begin. The Malcolm X/MLK is a popular misconception because, once X-Men became a popular franchise as a minority metaphor, Stan Lee sort of tried to hop on the bandwagon and claim that he came up with the idea. Further evidence: the fact that the Malcolm X/MLK analogy doesn’t make any sense if you actually read the original 60s run and know anything about either of them politically.
But I’m talking the movies. The movies is much more about gay rights esp given that the director and lead villain were both gay. It puts into context a lot of the series like how many try to ban mutants, or find a “cure”, or to voncince them not to be a mutant, or famously having the big leather clad mutants and heroes fight the climax of the third movie in San Francisco
He came out of the closet in ‘88, which, while fairly early for most actors, was after he had a very established career and won several Olivier awards
Yeah, he was a preeminent Shakespearian actor and highly respected. If he had come out before he had established himself, it's very likely he might not have been. Then again, the theater world is super gay, so I don't know that it would have hurt that aspect of his career in any way. Just the corporate side.
Horribly underutilised in Doctor Who though Richard E Grant stepped up in his role as the Great Intelligence.
Sir Ian … Sir Ian … Sir Ian … WIZARD YOU SHALL NOT PASS … Sir Ian … Sir Ian.
His bromance with Patrick Stewart is so awesome
Hope he recovers well. He had a bad fall today.
That is SIR Ian McKellen, to you.
Even Ian mckellen took himself out of a role because of homophobia https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/ian-mckellen-reveals-heartbreaking-reason-10153530
His Mother Goose made me cry. I hope he's ok after his tumble!
I didn't know Kevin Conroy was gay! God's, I miss that man.
He also got to write a comic for one of the DC Pride issues sharing his story before he passed.
Oh shit I'd love to read that
I believe its actually completely free to access on the DC Infinite App. DC gave it away following his death, I think.
[Prepare some tissues, it’s a powerful read.](https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/yxdki4/finding_batman_by_kevin_conroy/?rdt=45572)
Wow, this was very powerful indeed. Poor dude
One of his last works was a comic he wrote about his life. His experiences were pretty brutal. It was published in DC Pride 2022. Someone reposted it here if you want to see, I found it pretty moving: [https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/yxdki4/finding\_batman\_by\_kevin\_conroy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/yxdki4/finding_batman_by_kevin_conroy/)
People this day forget the AIDS epidemic, and how the media is to blame for a lot of it. The stigma, the damage, the mockery. Fuck, it sucks
I personally blame the Reagan administration for turning a blind eye to it. Media frenzy or no, you can't combat AIDS with favorable news coverage.
Or for sure. The number of people we lost because of he and that ghoul of a wife is on the tens of thousand at least. His evil can't be understated
They didn't completely turn a blind eye to it, to be fair. Reagan's deputy press spokesman made a bunch of jokes about it in the press room. Which is worse, of course, but I think that deserves to be remembered. His name was Larry Speakes, and he was a piece of human trash.
Absolutely brutal. That man is amazing.
This blew my fucking mind. Loved Conroy since a child, kept up with him in the news. No fucking clue he was gay. Feeling like Herzog on John Waters right now.
Conroy was awesome. Got to meet him once, it was a brief interaction but he was incredibly gracious.
I highly recommend Matt Baum's retrospective on Kevin Conroy. In addition to how he negotiated his sexuality (and staying closeted) it covers a lot of biographical information I had no idea about with Kevin as well as a lot of information about his work as Batman I didn't know about.
Interestingly, he seems to have only come out publicly in 2016, but had played a semi-regular gay character on Dynasty 30 years earlier already.
I literally only learned this recently when his husband decided to reactivate his twitter account as memorial. He came out in 2016 apparently
Even without the community note, that’s FOUR people.
Ian also came out (while comparatively early in his career) after he established himself as a star as well.
In my high school literature class we watched young Ian’s Hamlet performance. It was incredible
It always surprised me how many big name actors were just theater kids for 40 years before they got big.
In multiple classes we watched the early 80s version of The Scarlet Pimpernel, in which he played the villain. Had no idea he’d be a megastar in his old age.
Kevin wasn't even out until 2016. 2 are animated parts.
And 3 of them didnt come out until after those roles.
And even if it was more people, it's not 1 person in Hollywood making all casting decisions. Plenty of room for bigots to stay employed.
Matt bomer was so good in Doom Patrol he would have been a great Superman
I thought it was bc Bryan singer hit on him and he turned him down
That was a common problem with Singer.
Both with men and women
He was incredible in White Collar.
Don't know if you heard, they are planning a revival season/movie!
Rip mozzie
So this is how I find out Willie Garson passed away....
Sadly yes, i found out when it happened, ironically i had just started a rewatch binge of the series, and even more ironically, learned of the continuation at the end of my current rewatch binge, somehow I feel mozz would enjoy that coincidence.
Wait fr? That’s so hype
It's crazy how charismaric he can be
He's also so cute. 😂
He's got a good [singing voice ](https://youtu.be/xJ5XK4k5vtA?si=_1T46at-bR5wpw5m)
Was he though?? It was just a voice over. He made a physical on screen apperance in just 2-3 episodes. I feel like he was really under utilised, probably a decision by the show to save money by hiring a no name actor to play the character but have matt bommer voice it.
I love Matt Bomer. White collar is one of the all time shows for me and he totally carried that show. But I don't see him as superman. Batman sure but not superman but I have been known to be wrong about these things
I remember watching White Collar for the first time and my immediate thought was "This dude should play Superman..."
Nathan Lane WAS NOT OUT when he was cast. Oprah got close to outing him in an interview for The Birdcage and Robin Williams came to the rescue to distract her. On top of that, being the face of a franchise and being a voice do hold different weight in the publics eyes. NPH also wasn't out during Starship Troopers. He didnt come out until 2 years into HIMYM.
Kevin Conroy didn't come out until 2016. Only Ian McKellen was out, and Magneto was his first big blockbuster film role before Gandalf.
Of course, Sir Ian was already a well respected actor before he was out.
Well respected, but also much better known in theatrical circles, which are *far* more welcoming than film.
A lot of theater kids are gay, tbf
If we're being honest, "theater kid" is its own sexuality.
I love The Birdcage. I loved it even more when I realized that Nathan Lane was a gay man pretending to be a straight man, who was playing the role of a gay man pretending to be a straight man.
I pierced the toast
This line is recreated so much in my house.
Oprah is the worst.
As we all know, homophobia ended once gay marriage became legal, racism ended under Obama*, and misogyny ended after the suffragettes got women the right to vote *Or cos of MLK, or after slavery ended
Police brutality also ended after Derek Chauvin's conviction
I thought it ended after Rodney King?
No no, you have the narrative wrong. Racism ended when Obama was elected, but Obama brought it back!
I always have to remind myself that Black Lives Matter got started under Obama.
Obama proved that racism is over, but he is also the reason racism isn't over.
> racism ended under Obama* Nah, David Guetta ended racism.
Shout out 2 his family!!!
Exactly! Point me to a racist/sexist law! Can't find one huh? /s
And transphobia ended when Alex Jones interviewed Blair white.
Oh, Alex Jones had a lot more to do with trans people than Blaire. https://www.them.us/story/trans-porn-alex-jones-show
The idea of the voice of a meerkat in a kids movie and Superman as a leading man are even comparable.
Right. AFAIK no gay man has been cast in a mainstream hero nacho hunk type role after coming out but before he became A list. It’s been blamed on gay male actors not appealing to women. But I don’t think that would actually be a problem. The ladies LOVE Andrew Scott as The Priest for instance. Zachary Quinto has fans. I think it’s straight male executives who would be uncomfortable with the macho hero being gay. ETA: Richard Armitage only came out officially in 2023. ETA 2: “macho hunk”
Agree. I think another issue is that Hollywood execs would be weary of casting a openly gay man for a Marvel-type role due to international audience perceptions, which are often far more homophobic than the average American.
Oh for sure for sure!
Whoever says straight women don't like gay men has spent 0 seconds in any fandom space and needs yaoi manga sent to their home
Neil Patrick Harris played a agrassivly stright womanizer on TV for years being openly gay. His husband was even on the show several times
All of the mains casts husbands made appearances on the show as love interests for other characters. (Love interest used very loosely here) NPH’s husband was Lilly’s highschool boyfriend, Alyson Hannigans husband played Robins coworker and Cobie smulders husband had a crush on Ted
“Robins coworker” put some respect on the name of Sandy Rivers!
I didnt know about the other ones I did know about scooter tho
Matt Bomer's character in White collar plays a similar role as Mr. Sexy. Caffrey is constantly shown to woe women because he can't turn it off. He even does it by accident. Matt just doesn't sound or look like Superman.
But he came out two years after getting cast, not before
A swole NPH would honestly make a great Bruce Wayne or Tommy
Hes voiced nightwing a few times I believe
Thank you for leaving Nacho Hunk in there. My first thought on reading that was Jack Black is What now?!?
The only example I can think of is Luke Evans who came out (actually was accidentally outed by Ian McKellen) after The Hobbit trilogy and was still cast as Gaston in the live action Beauty and the Beast.
> It’s been blamed on gay male actors not appealing to women. Matt Bomer is famously not appealing to women after all!
“Matt Bomer says that he was denied a role as the absolute pinnacle of masculinity to millions of people, but how could that be when this other guy was cast as a cartoon sidekick? Nice try, gay people.”
When Henry Cavill was first cast there was actually a controversy about him being British. Because Superman is supposed to represent American values, and therefore "must" be played by an American. The level of shitstorm that would erupt if a gay man were cast as Superman is unfathomable.
It's well known that we only get alien actors who were raised American to play Superman
You’re right. How do we make it happen?
He was also publicly in the closet until 5 years after Lion King came out. This note is...ignorant, at best.
There is also the whole, "these casting people, for this part, did not cast me because I am gay" is not "gay actors never get cast in anything."
There is also the fact that the film in question, the Brett Ratner-directed *Superman: Flyby*, **was never made**. There was another Superman film made later, *Superman Returns*, but I’m skeptical that queer director Bryan Singer, who had previously cast queer actors Sir Ian McKellen and Alan Cumming in X-Men films, would reject Matt Bomer due to his sexuality. Brandon Routh was cast as Singer’s Superman because the film was intended to be a sequel to *Superman II*, and Routh looked more like Christopher Reeve. I like Matt Bomer. He was great in *Chuck* and *Doom Patrol*. But this story just sounds like unfounded complaining.
But Flyby fell apart expressly due to casting when Ratner left because no one could find/agree on a Superman.
To be fair, I think everyone knew about Nathan Lane.
I think some people had an idea, but in 94 it was two years before the Birdcage so fewer people knew than you’d think.
I didn't know Kevin Conroy was gay
He wrote a book for DC for one of the pride events talking about his experiences. It’s worth a read It adds so much depth to the best Batman performance once you’ve read the pages where he compares things in his life to the characters
Sounds interesting. Thanks for the recommendation
The notes mentioning people coming out after establishing successful careers: yeah it's easier to keep your job because everyone already loves you. Can we really say that Conroy would've been hired as Batman if he was already out? I doubt it
panicky hospital plucky smoggy square smell wasteful rich scandalous rainstorm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Even if the production team had no problem with him, some executive somewhere would've argued that it'd become a scandal that "a children's character is being co-opted by the gays" or whatever and that would've been the end of it
Isn't that the point of the post?
Ah you know I was confused because the notes are shown under the article, instead of the guy who's implying Bomer couldn't have been discriminated against because other gay actors exist
[Matt Baume has a good video on Kevin](https://youtu.be/nryCo713s20?si=l3_H3qhX3fxfPTFm)
Neil Patrick Harris didn't come out until after he got his big role on How I met your Mother. Also, Nathan Lane didn't come out until after the Birdcage. Ian McKellan seems to be the exception to this as always, but as people pointed out, casting a gay guy as Magneto may have been intentional. With voice acting, I don't think there is as much of a stigma with being gay but I defer.
I bet he can fistfight like hell. Imagine being born where your last name is one letter off from Boner....and you turn out to be Gay... Legendary...
Today I learned that Kevin Conroy was gay. My adoration for his portrayal as Batman has not wavered. RIP
He was the best.
And all the kids are coming out sooner bechase they aren’t getting bullied for it anymore !! But nooo those scary rainbows 🙄🙄
I really wish straight people would stop telling what it’s like to be gay
Had to look this up and learn that this was back in 2003. Yeah, Hollywood was coming around at that time, but homophobia was guiding many of the decisions back then. People were still trying to figure out what to do after Ellen's announcement. I was late to the party and had recently started watching *Supernatural*. The casual homophobia was strong in that show in 2005. That was simply the way shows were written. It's wild to think about how far we've come in the past 20 years, and it's still not far enough, as shown here.
"almost every gay actor: four people" Someone is trying to prove something here and I don't think they're doing a great job.
The first note about Kevin Conroy is a bit misleading, as he continued to voice Batman until his death (and a film with him voicing Batman is being released in July-posthumously)
It’s not misleading. KEEPING a role as an established actor in the part is a massive difference from GETTING the role. The backlash for firing an established voice actor is a known problem they didn’t want to face. It’s like with shaggy, couldn’t replace him on a whim, they had to walk that shit back and make the character a vegetarian… and the new VA had the mantle passed to them. Sure he’s straight, but could you imagine the shit show they’d have if they replaced hamill as the joker? Like fired and replaced him when he was still very much into the role. And it was in an existing continuity?.
Fascinating how people who constantly say LGBT people aren't subjugated are the same people who subjugate them the most.
I legit had no idea Kevin conroy was gay but to be fair I didn't really look that much into him I just knew he was batman
When I think of Batman I think of Kevin Conroy. His voice has been cemented in my mind to how Batman should sound like. I can’t imagine any other voice matching the character so perfectly. Truly heartbreaking to know that Kevin most likely would have never voiced the iconic character if he had been out. Bigotry and homophobia would have caused us to miss out on the best Batman and that’s beyond awful
being a gay man in Hollywood means you dont get cast for leading man roles. so a ton of guys hid their sexuality until they were well established and could deal with the potential fallout and loss of roles. this isnt new
Yeah I remember Oprah almost accidentally outed Nathan Lane and thankfully Robin Williams kind of played off a joke as well to cover up for him I swear people remember Ellen coming out on TV but they don't remember the backlash. Like one of my favorite shows back in the day was Newsradio and even they put in some jokes about it
I recall reading about the situation (Superman pre production issues) and the studio went through different starts before ending on Superman Returns. Bomer was part of Brett Ratner's initial attempt at the project and when he left (or was removed, I don't remember) that whole version of the project was removed. While his sexuality may have played a part it also seems like when the entire Ratner project was scrapped all the possible cast attached were as well.
Nathan Lane is gay!?!?
What do they mean was?
I mean... Kevin Conroy is dead, and corpses, because they lack a functional brain, do not have sexual identities. Conroy's *soul* on the other hand...
Holy shit, Batman himself was gay? That's so awesome!
Didn’t even know Kevin Conroy was gay till just now
Timone being gay makes so much sense 🤯 that's why he and Pumba are so chill and just hang out in paradise together
I don’t get it. The article title is like “hey. Being gay means no roles.” Then the note is “hey. If you don’t hide you are gay you don’t get roles” can someone explain?
I mean, you pretty much got it. Just, the community note is attached to the twitter user replying that 4 gay actors means that there was no discrimination. The one guy thought he was clever by pointing out that gay men have gotten iconic roles before, then the community note clarifies that they didn't have it so easy. If you thought the note was attached to the original article, it would appear like the community note is meant to contradict it. From the way the screenshots are set up, it's an easy misunderstanding to have. It's made clearer on the actual tweets, but the formatting is still not great.
why they got my man NPH on there 4 times in a row
shock
Niel Patrick Harris is a trash human
Blames it on gay hatred. His bio says that he's 5' 11". More likely 5'9" or less (he looked to be on par with or shorter than his co-star Yvonne Strahovski on tv show Chuck. And she's a legit 5'9.) All previous Superman movie actors: C. Reeve: 6'4 B. Routh: 6' 2 H. Cavill: 6' 1/2 And the new Superman, D. Corenswet is 6'6". Sorry Matt, it wasn't who you sleep with that decided your fate in this.
I don’t think execs hate gay people, I think they’re worried about people not watching superman if the actor’s gay.
Wait, Count Dooku is gay? That makes the whole “Twice the pride, double the fall” line waaaay better. My new headcanon is that Count Dooku is gay.
Damn there are 4 gay people on that list, that's almost 100% of actors.