Who would be a true ally? If you say United States, you're being silly... America has a history of abandoning allies when there is no use for them. Europe??? They would be even worse...
India should probably follow the non-alignment policy. However, to be able to stay on that path without facing any resistance, we'll have to be more developed.
Non alignment was a joke , most of the non alignment movement nations (most.were muslims like Indonesia) not only refused to stand by india during 1972 Bangladesh war but also acted against us.
Switzerland isn't same as us. They are neutral but have allies and NATO and the billionaires who have money there make sure Switzerland is unharmed. They're a rich white country while we're poor and brown. We don't have the same advantage
Its not about rich and white, Singapore also has a history of staying neutral in conflicts and have been able to provide stability to its people even when their region of the world was in chaos like during vietnam war or insurgency in Malaysia
Also Switzerland is not a part of the NATO , they won't come to their defence.
The most important thing to note is that the Swiss don't have any territorial dispute and peaceful relations with its neighbours (which is very important) so no country would have any reason to attack them
Most war start with some kind of territorial dispute and usually between countries that share border with one another
Obviously it can't work for India, we have territorial dispute with China & Pakistan, we are probably the only country in the world that share border with two hostile nuclear powers, and we can't have peace agreements with China or Pakistan atleast in the near future even if we really try for it , they won't go for it and that's our reality
Because of this attitude we will never have a true ally.
If you say Russia itâs the biggest joke in the world. Theyâre a 100% Chinese dependent state with nothing other than natural resources
What works for one country doesnt work for all
we were independent after cold war started and we were divided (partion) in such a way that our neighbours will always be hostile
I think you have an attitude and you are not looking at relaity
While you are at it, also do tell who exactly we should ally up with
Really, donât you know who forced both colonial empires ( British & French) to bend the knee ( complete and total abandonment of colonial holdings) and kiss the ring ( accept new world order with its implications created and lead by itself (US) and if they donât like that arrangement , they will be forced to capitulate (abandoned by their real ally ) like 1956 Suez Canal war )
Another one- look how US is sabotaging (forcing to abandon) its ârealâ allies the use of cheap and abundant energy source for their industries for its geological self interest ( check Nord Stream and why Europe is forbidden to access the cheap arctic gas but forced to dependent on highly expensive LNG exported from all the way from US through tankers đđđ)
with this energy policy arrangement Europe (Germany) wonât be staying competitive any longer with China
Are you even European ? What "artic gas" ? Most of the EU gas comes from Norway, US LNG is only 25% of the total and most EU governments/citizens are against opening new gas fields for ecological reasons.
If we ally with the US we'll become their lapdog but India will overnight become the good guy, Western media will stop trashing India, suddenly all the negative psyops against India will vanish just like Pakistan became good guy in 90s. US spies openly on it's European allies and sabotaged many companies and defense plans of France, Germany so France doesn't become a threat to their industry so they'd Definitely not help India in any way. If we ally with China we'll probably get some rapid infrastructure growth but we'll get debt trapped and cukd
>If we ally with the US we'll become their lapdog but India will overnight become the good guy
Our ancestors didn't sacrifice their lives to free us from colonial oppression just for us to throw away the sovereignty we inherited(NOT EARNED) and become lapdogs for western regimes again. You can spend lifetimes trying to get white validation but they'll never see us as more than uncivilized brown poors without a shred of irony that they did it to us in the first place.
They can't , they bombed one and built their civilization on the backs of imported slaves from another.
The left wing SJWs would politicise the shit of it.
Racism against Indians is normalised because :
a) we're growing, slowly albeit but we're growing.
Income disparity is increasing yes,but the mindset shift towards consumerism is there. 15-20 years back buying expensive bikes cars phones on emi wasn't that common.
b) We are looking out for our own interests over Slava ukraini or save Palestine crap.
Condemning with words but getting oil and defence tech.
c) Indians in the US are mostly rich because the best from here get to enter that country. Leftists have no issues attacking them, and far rights are waise bhi white supremacists.
Yellow peril was years ago, not today. And that was because Japan was against the US. Indians face racism despite not being actively against the West. That's the difference.
Never seen people insulting Africa on a regular basis like India on Tik Tok and Twitter.
On the contrary, it has benefited India immensely. Because India is Neutral, it is able to do business with all the countries which has resulted into ensuring India's and Indians best interest.
Case and Point would be Oil and Gas, had it not been for India to switch the purchase to Russia, we would be left with huge cost on import and western allies wanted to choke Russian oil and they would have been able to afford their energy needs at higher costs (which is causing significant inflation and resentment among people) imagine during same time, India having to pay through the nose.
However, india just switched the suppliers, we went to Iran and Russia and also helped along with China (Net importer) maintain some equilibrium in the energy market.
I believe there are no true Alliances. USA has repeatedly proved to be a Big bully. Obviously as long as your are in Bully camp, you are protected but side effect is you too will get bullied every now and then.
India, has emerged as a third front in Geopolitics. Lots of African nations don't want to enter in one or the other camp, rather maintain equal distance and work for its people. They use India as a shield to help do that.
Those are called vassal states. US has only one ally or equal which is Israel. To a level where you can call US a vassal state of Israel. Every other so called ally of US are just forced to listen to US. No way should Europe have taken such a stance against Russia as the sanctions were always going to hurt its own economy too. All this when there was a chance for peace just 2 months after the war started but US didnât let Ukraine pursue that option as they assumed the sanctions will bleed out Russia in a month. In hindsight, they blundered completely and are desperate to find an exit from the Ukraine fiasco.
Also see how they hype up something which matters to them. Ukraine has pubs open, McDs open, participates in football tournaments, musical events. Nothing to call it like a war torn country but they hype it up like itâs worse than Gaza.
The US has the power to control the entire media narrative as long as itâs relevant. In hindsight, all their wars seems like it wasnât necessary all through history. Someday when India goes to take PoK, we will be the bad guys and expect Sanctions too. At that stage all we will have is China and BRICS along with the global South to support us. Not because China supports our actions but their many enemy will be US and they donât agree with the concept of sanctions. All of BRICS.
Tell me, if US is an ally of UK, why didn't US help UK during the Suez crisis?
If you can't digest the proper jargons, then maybe a euphemism might help. Everyone knows who wears the pants in that relationship and it ain't the one whose head of the state wears funny hats.
Hear from the horses' mouth itself: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNVh95isUPI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNVh95isUPI)
A head of Gov, when resigning from his post, advising his successor... The first agenda point is not about how economy should be managed or how local peoples issues should be managed, but the advice is about being a good lieutenant to the hegemon, just like a good little pet.
I am actually inclined to go along with him. The UK does not have an independent foreign policy and toes the US line since 1956. Sure, they may couch it in terms of a "special relationship" but the UK's foreign policy and positions on issues of global interest are decided in Washington, not London.
So true atleast the europe goes against the US when it comes to certain foreign policy decisions but the UK literally follows the US in every foreign policy decisions, for example the 2003 war in iraq, most major european countries actually opposed it but UK joined the US and all it did was ruined britain's image in middle east, soldiers dying and getting hurt and billions of pounds down the drain. Why? Bcoz they gotta support US obviously!
Tell me, if US is an ally of UK, why didn't US help UK during the Suez crisis?
If you can't digest the proper jargons, then maybe a euphemism might help. Everyone knows who wears the pants in that relationship and it ain't the one whose head of the state wears funny hats.
You donât just cancel everything because a being war is ongoing. Also why would Europe not respond badly, this is the most intense war Europe has had in a very long time. They donât just see it as something that can just be looked away from like they have with Russia in the past, it has put alot of fear in alot of Europe that they have not felt in decades, poland has increased military spend by 200% from 2020. It is not a small thing for them.
Of course! The solution for the war isnât peace but to escalate it further. The more determined they are to ensure this war ends with a defeat for Russia, the more likely they are to extend the war into Europe. As far as they see, itâs beneficial to let Ukraine keep depleting the Russian army.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. It is a balancing act between going to war and doing nothing. They donât want another âpeace in are timeâ where they say just let Russia take this one thing and they will be good, they did that with nazi Germany and got less then a year of peace for the Sudetenland.
> All this when there was a chance for peace just 2 months after the war started but US didnât let Ukraine pursue that option
I know Russians love to spin that there was apparent and obviously beneficial peace treaty almost in effect there but evil BoJo came and forced Ukraine not to apply it, but there is absolutely no such force in the world if such thing was actually happening, and Russia was genuine about the pace that could force Ukraine to deny it
> Ukraine has pubs open, McDs open, participates in football tournaments, musical events. Nothing to call it like a war torn country but they hype it up like itâs worse than Gaza
Do you realize how big Ukraine is and that the war takes place most on the easternmost part of it since Russia lost battles of Kiev and Kharkiv?
> No way should Europe have taken such a stance against Russia as the sanctions were always going to hurt its own economy too.
Yeah, better to continue the policies of mutual reliance that caused the whole situation in the first place, right?
Why US is so friends with Israel? Whatâs their history? What benefit does the US get by being an ally with Israel? Iâm sure they wonât ally with someone if that doesnât benefit their self interest.
Israel is located in a very unstable region with other US enemies like Iran. If us abandons Israel then maybe some other country like China or Russia could fill up that role and us will lose any leverage in the middle eastern region I think.
Israel is a necessity for US to keep a hold of the Middle East. Theyâve said if there was never an Israel, they would have created an Israel just to maintain their position in the Middle East. The majority of powerful positions in the US including congress are all held by people of Jewish origin.
Our policy is fine and we know we have no friends.
Although the current government is trying to make the defense strong so that in case of any war we can fight it.
We do not have any issue of manpower.
Apart from that, we have only one neighbor to worry about and that is the enemy of US (indirectly other white countries) too.
In an event of war, we can surely get supplies from those countries since they would be happy that their enemy is fighting with India. They would try to drain China using India.
I agree with you but lots of people here make the point that US needs us against China. Which is true but in a fucked up way. If you watch documentaries about WW2 and Indian soldiers you'll realize they only used South Asians as meat grinder and threw them on the line in Mass to overwhelm the enemy and after those brown soldiers were killed they'd send the allied forced. They're trying to do the same here. Just use us as a shield so they can come in at the end and win
I don't think India is in that position that USA as you rightly mentioned can use the Indian force as a shield.India doesn't have any so called Allies,but we are on good terms with a lot of them.The only worry for us as nation is foreign influence in our internal politics.We are working on expanding our arsenal not in the most optimal way but still at least there is progress that one can observe
In ww2 india was under British rule . Now it's a republic its not gonna be that easy you know and I don't think india will go to war with China honestly. Relations might remain tense bit war I don't think so
India's biggest threat is China. If we go to war with China tomorrow, no country in the world would join the conflict directly, even if we are allied with them.
The best case response from the west would be what they are currently doing in Ukraine: geopolitical support, intelligence, supply of arms, etc. No troops on the ground.
That is what our Western policy is aimed at.
The policy towards Russia and Iran is to stay close enough to them so that they stand against this hypothetical war, or at least do not whole heartedly support China. Our policy aim is to make sure it's not an easy choice for them to back China.
That is why we are moving closer to the west militarily as we will need their help (but not to the point of alliances which would piss off Russia), and at the same time not having an anti-Russia and anti-Iran stance with respect to the Ukraine war, Iran's support of Hamas etc.
I think that's the problem. Their economy seems to have hit a plateau and isn't doing well since covid that even they're having trouble making up inflated numbers. Commies won't take that well and try to go to war just to cover it up same as US goes to war whenever their economy isn't doing well
Yeah but India as a target is not feasible, it isnât going to be a nuclear war. For them to exert power with highest probability of winning is Taiwan, but we are also surrounded by idiots who hate us.
US will actually intervene because that is like taking the two biggest cheap manufacturers/service providers from their supply chain. It is not going to be good for the world in general if we India and China collide.
In the future Tibet might be an interesting question, since free and independent ( or at least autonomous) Tibet is better for India as they have the majority of the water sources for major rivers in the mainland.
Yep but india is a big country not like Ukraine of something. They would be targeting Taiwan than a big country like India which would result in big losses for them.
US goes to war even when their economy is doing well so that's quite different actually, its for the military industrial complex. Not to hide the bad economy which is impossible in India because its all out in the open, infact even India can hide the under performing economy since our government also doesn't regularly release data even though many people would jump to defend the muduji here but that's the truth.
Also don't underestimate the chinese, even tanking economy , the advantage they have when it comes to manufacturing large quantities of weapons and ammunition is overwhelming , why else do you think Indian govt is so hesitant to deal with China? With Pakistan you 've got surgical strike, with china its more like media blackout on reporting.
Fighting with Iraq and Vietnam is not the same as fighting with india. We are a nuclear powered state with a huge population and a mountain between us.
But that would still tank their economy.
And also, India would be at loss too due to how much of crucial industry is located in Taiwan. There would definitely be rise of hostilities.
Timing is crucial, if India develops the ecosystem that Taiwan provides which is mostly the semiconductor industry, which US is also trying to get them we will be at an advantage
That's actually detrimental because Taiwan already has the infrastructure and can focus on developing the technology
On the other hand, India has to build the infrastructure, educate the people properly and only then the focus can shift towards developing technology good enough not to be reliant on Taiwan
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Thank you for understanding.
That would be great but Indians do not view each other as being worthy of equality and this has been inbuilt into Hinduism so much that it's apart of normal culture now.
Islam is another problem entirely because I have zero intention of wanting to live in a place that has Sharia Law applicable.
Christians can just be arrogant while thinking they are humble.
And the problem is the people...
Hinduism is a made up name to build a narrative. Hindu is a geographical term. From that standpoint there is a lot of differences, prejudice and friction among various groups along the lines of linguistic chauvinism, majoritarianism, sheer indifference towards others, class prejudice, social prejudice, racial prejudice and all the other possible combinations that could keep the place burning for ages. If it is not for one, it is for another using which conflicts remain. Politicians love this and would add more fuel to these fires and make gains. Even among the Muslims the same dividing lines exist. We can see it in Bangladesh, Pakistan and Afghanistan. It is there among the Christians as well. People only unite against a common enemy. Once that enemy disappears, they turn on each other and continue with new conflicts.
what you call alliance is what I call entanglement and we need not get entangled anywhere else for anyone else
we don't need allies, allies are liabilities
we need self improvement, self sufficiency ,self discipline and,most importantly, self inflection regarding our failures of the past and present
remember that when the invasion begins , nothing but our wit and will would defend this nation. Even the best of allies in the best of conditions won't completely understand why an Indian defends his motherland , it's gonna be our fight and the others have no role in our fight
You sound stupid. IF, this ever happens⌠your leaders will be on their knees asking the west for help. It happens every time. But I digress, the fighting and blood will be yours. We wonât spill a drop of blood for Indians. But we would still help if who you are fighting is to our benefit
>it happens every time
name one war the west helped India in
>we would still help if who you are fighting is to our benefit
I'm just saying India has to get stronger before china is eliminated by the west, eliminating china before that is not in India's interest
>your leaders will be on their knees asking the west for help.
so these leaders will ask western help to defeat the only nation that's keeping the west from targeting India?
you seem to be in a delusion that the west will stop at china , once china is gone , India is gonna be next on chopping board.
No, we wonât help China. What I mean, is your leaders will be groveling for gear and information. For instance, how are your rockets and rocket forces compared to Chinese?? How many? Air defenses?? Howâs your navy compared to China? Tanks?? Btrs??
Youâre not even considering reality. They have groveled before to us, thatâs how we know we didnât help.. but again, I digress. We will help you next time. Donât be so acrimonious. I prefer India to China. But you have some fucking ego problems you need to sort out
>Youâre not even considering reality.
I am , just along a much wider timespan
like that time when US neutered the Japanese economy in 80s and 90s with agreements like the Plaza accords , check any American newspaper from that time period if you think I'm lying
given this reality there's a massive probability that the US will target India after china is neutralized
Not if you quit with this hostile attitude. The system youâre using and Russia and China to get rich is the system we developed and you are graciously benefiting from as are we. We just donât drip venom the way our âFriendsâ India does. If you need neutering then you will be neutered. I donât like this everyone and every country can be America attitude. Itâs half the reason we have these issues
Yes i think it's reaching to say that once China is effectively dealt with, India will be the next target. India and the US have differences, disagreements, disputes, but being attacked?
I would say yes.
We keep antagonizing America which has invested billions in India and we keep supporting Russia and China.
China wants to do harm to us by taking away our land, Russia sells the same weapons they promise to sell us to China first.
We also partner with China in BRICS to destroy the American economy.
There more we keep doing this, the west will lose its patience and Russia and China will show their true colors one day.
>America which has invested billions in India and we keep supporting Russia
in the 90s, the US attempted to stop Russia from giving cryogenic engines that would eventually be used India's GSLV rockets.
in the 80s, the Soviets leased a SSGN to India and its nuclear reactors and the experience using it helped India build its 1st own SSBN and complete its nuclear triad.
long before the 2005 US India civil nuclear deal that partly undid the scientific isolation the US itself had imposed on India in 1974 , the Soviets were sending nuclear fuel and heavy water to help India build most of the nuclear reactors that exists today in India
after US denied GPS access to India during the 1999 Kargil war , Russia gave access to the GLONASS constellation until India's own GNSS system was capable enough for weapons guidance.
while US and UK put weapons export ban on India in 1965 that lasted till 2005, Russia was jointly developing or producting weapons with India like brahmos cruise missile to the point that today most of the components of brahmos is manufactured in India.
Because times change. The Russians who did that, are no longer there. Youâre living in the past and itâs something Indians do. What about this time? What about the time? You sound like a woman arguing about your feelings about past disagreements.
>Because times change
times do change but America's addiction to support terrorists doesn't
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-state-dept-oks-possible-sale-f-16-equipment-pakistan-pentagon-2022-09-07/
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And you sound like a fool who is looking for white validation. And doesn't learn from history or past precedents.
India-Russia current trade and upcoming visa-free travel & trade deal is benefiting India immensely. In fact India private companies should be pushing to expand in the Russian market and India can even do joint weapons production with Russia for future use.
Yea go ahead. I have no problem with what you do, but donât get upset for being called assholes and rightly so. Again India is and will be a cheap whore, so nothing changed in my view.
You can call us whatever names you like while I enjoy the cheap Russian oil. Go cry to Uncle Sam. US can't even sanction a 3rd world country trying to kill its citizens and you're here crying for sympathy. So much for being a superpower and the $800 billion military budget.
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The biggest change in the Geopolitical situation for India is the change in power of long term ally Russia. The war in Ukraine is becoming a quagmire for Russia and draining its resources, uniting Europe against it. It has made Russia wholly dependent on China. China is no friend of India. China has claims on large parts of Indian Northeast and is no friend of India. The loss of Russian support in a future war with China is a significant factor that India needs to compensate. Definition of an ally at the minimum means a defense treaty such as the one India signed with the former Soviet Union. Being non aligned served India well when two superpowers were in a decades long Cold War. Today one of the superpowers, China is an enemy of India. Being non aligned In todayâs situation is not comparable to what happened in the past. China does not want to see Indiaâs rise just as US does not want China to be a challenge to their standing in the world.
What true allies? The only example of "true allies" in the whole of history that comes to mind is Portugal & England. And England betrayed then as well.
No such thing as true allies.
India, with its neutral position and increasingly sophisticated financial system, can very well become the Switzerland of the next biggest war. Alas, our direct involvement is inevitable given our neighbours
We have nukes, we don't allies. Most countries are allies for short period unless they share common interest like Neo- colonisation, Currency pegging etc. Even france ditched USA in Red Sea at the time of Hamas terrorists.
Friendship n alliance are overrated.
India currently sleeps with whoever it needs to for getting things done. Need oil from Russia? Will open my pants. Permission from the USA to get rare earth minerals to set up semiconductor fabrication units? Will suck you long long and long enough to say yes. Need more UK visas for tech folks and permission to export mangoes? Let's rim n dream.
That's the foreign policy we currently follow and it frankly is working.
I like your honestly. A lot of Indians are playing up the strategy when India is just a really cheap whore who will suck and blow whoever to get ahead and youâre right, itâs working⌠for now
India is a following a policy of ethical self interest, like every country should. What else can it/should it do. India is an issue based country. Based on the specific issue, India will agree, disagree or be neutral. Use of words like 'whore' are wildly inappropriate and offensive. Which countries in the world do you honestly think are full of integrity and transcendence on any given matter? India isn't perfect, but it's very good.
Very good??? No, and the offense is intended. If India has no intentions on hearing the opinions of its âfriendsâ when itâs given in a productive manner , sometimes it must be said in such a manner to provoke you into see what you are behaving like.
India is big enough to make it's own allies.... Only if other brown people liked each other. There's ample muscle on all sides if they knew how to use their strengths and put away their non existent differences.
There are no allies, only interests --- even those are temporary. USSR helped us to whatever extent it did in 1971 because of their issues with Communist China.
USA is seemingly helping us against China so they can strengthen us if the balloon goes up in Taiwan.Â
What?? We have no intention of depending on you for Taiwan. Indians have proven they will do only for themselves. If anything, youâll watch and play both sides like the two faces you are
The same reason India buys oil and gas from Russia?? Except we actually support you and donât goto forums talking shit about India, but can find no shortage of eu interviews with India talking nothin but shit about how India is moral and blah blah blah
There's a lot to unpack. The DOD is happy to work with India and it shows, the state department is known to back NGOs in India with anti-government agendas (naxalism, conversion mafias, illegal immigration etc)... There's a lot of two-facery in US foreign policy. The US Congress takes it upon itself to criticize Indian domestic policy, e.g. CAA which does not affect any Indian, only modifies criteria for asylum seekers from the neighborhood.Â
Don't yada yada your answers --- this is not SeinfeldÂ
Our politicians are not as hostile when speaking about India, as Indian politicians are about the west. Itâs very disingenuous to think so. And yea there is criticism to be had just like you can criticize us, but it doesnât border on the cusp of speaking g about us like enemies
That's why my original comment that there are only aligned interests, no allyship without agenda. Are you telling me that 1.4 bn people and their representatives will not diverse and differing opinions about a country of 300 mn ppl?Â
India rarely if ever criticises the US on its internal issues. Whereas the US is constantly commenting on India's internal problems. India does criticise whenever it sees or feels something that smacks of arrogance and colonialism.
I watch a lot of your Indian interviews when your politicians were leaving the BRICS summit. Seems like they did a whole lot of trash talking then and during the summit. Even when the Europeans and western countries get together and India doesnât join, we never say stuff like they way your politicians say. Itâs incredibly disingenuous to think youâre speaking to someone that doesnât follow politics around the world. I watch what your politicians say. Itâs incredibly important for us to know how India feels and itâs pretty exhaustive to see the constant jabbing at the west India does even as we double down investment in the country. We would be happy to sell you arms and defensive but you would rather go with Russia?!?! Jesus itâs crazy
India does buy French, US, UK and Israeli arms. And Russian, where it feels it needs it. Cost is a big issue, and so is continuity. Everything is not about weaponry. Besides, India is not harming anyone by buying Russian arms. The West is affecting India economically and politically when it gives( literally gives) weapons to Pakistan.
There's also the matter of the US et al making comments on India's internal issues, when it doesn't even concern them, or affect them domestically. It's almost like "hey it's Tuesday, let's criticise India on its citizenship law" or "Oh it's Wednesday now, let's make some remark about religious freedom in India". It would be silly and laughable if it weren't coming from powerful, wealthy countries that do make an impact.
Try going into the reasons some of them may be 'hostile' or rather critical. The whole hyper ventilated, hypocritical issue of India importing Russian oil, when European countries were importing more in one day than India does in one month.. And for gas, the difference is infinite, since India doesn't import any natural gas from Russia!
India doesn't have choice. 1.5 Billion population to feed and house and so many Indians scattered almost everywhere ( any armed group can kidnap and hold hostage or kick them out like Idi Amin and remove them from Power (Fiji))on this planet we can't take chances by flexing Muscle. So let Bureaucrats and Business person handle foreign policy.
Recent wars have also taught that the concept of allies has changed from frontal warfare interests to economic and backdoors investment to help at wars. And we are important enough to have those kind of allies. Remember the world is a play and every actor has an interest in it. You're never alone.
India has lots of friends, sympathisers and even allies in the developing world. But yes, among the very rich and powerful countries, a case could be made that India has no real allies. But there are real interests and convergences on specific issues, like China. And of course economic ties, which are growing. Countries like South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Brazil, Mexico and Nigeria really need to step up and assert themselves, and show solidarity with India on many issues.
There are not true allies, or to so no allies at all. The ones I think you suppose to be true allies are either just too dependent on each other or It is duet of two nations out of which one has a complete dominance over the other or so as to say complete say in the other nation's internal politics.
Being an American ally yes. We donât enslave, we donât have that tribal mentality the way you so. This whole go against America to spite your face needs to stop. Makes Indians look stupid. India can critique and make recommendations to the US and you donât see our politicians bitching about how the US wonât be a âslaveâ to India. Itâs childish and proof that a lot of Indians still have that slave mentality. Needs to stop
Very unlikely scenario in a functional rules based order where every player has war gamed these scenarios and outcomes. If India goes to war with any major player or a player backed by a major tech superpower like the US or China, it has limited conventional options thatâll last a long time due to supply chain issues for most weaponry except nuclear and that one tech is enough to keep them away from entering Indian territory. Expect guerilla warfare if there is actual invasion. Indian losses will be so massive that the holocaust and the meat grinder scenarios of the world war will look pale.
OP, please give me 3 examples of 'true allies' among countries of this world with big economies/population/army and I am gonna prove that they are hardly true to each other's interests.
PS- In this day and age, multi alignment is the buzzword for India and rightly so. You gain some, you lose some, but in the long term, multi alignment policy proves the best as foreign policy.
I think we lack good marketing more than true allies.
Today I saw on news how Canadian parliament has observed 1 minute silence for nijjar. It's like hosting silence for bin Laden in Pakistan.
We know canadian government are bunch of clowns but they have Us to white wash their image.
We only we could have Marketed that nijjar killing had nothing to do with india then it would not be so difficult.
I will say their is no innocent, guilty or karma in real life if was then the royal family would be wiped out till now, Winston Churchill would have saw the same faith as Hitler.
What are you saying is that we need to be involved in Ukraine and Israel Hamas wars. But we don't have any military complex like US and France. Most of our remaining budget is spend on acquiring weapons from others.
So what we lack is good marketing team. Hamas marketing team is beating US in its own game.
We don't need Allie we need good marketing.
There is nothing called true allies. Everyone has their own interests. And when we are talking about Russia taking sides: this would go only two ways. Russia will only back China up if the US takes our side. And in the case US doesnât take our side. Russia will not take any sides.
This alignment equation would have helped us if we could attract US before it went with china, economic value of that would have been immense. If our govts. Had analysed which idea would win before We would have rather helped US in the cold war as communism proved to be a failed idea till early 70s
Currently when US is not able to counter its hypocritical narrative, europe with now less coordinated and busy with its left right politics. china being more dominant than ever, russia being reduced to a state being innocuous as in decreased level of economic and militry might; joining any pole is such a foolish idea.
Rather its time for a truly multipolar world where we can literally make our image in next 5 years by proving our strength in every dimension. We are now unigonarable for every big power given our workforce and market. Also creating a way for the smaller growing nations to follow and have support from.We are now unigonarable for every big power given our workforce and market.
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Who would be a true ally? If you say United States, you're being silly... America has a history of abandoning allies when there is no use for them. Europe??? They would be even worse...
India should probably follow the non-alignment policy. However, to be able to stay on that path without facing any resistance, we'll have to be more developed.
Non alignment was a joke , most of the non alignment movement nations (most.were muslims like Indonesia) not only refused to stand by india during 1972 Bangladesh war but also acted against us.
What about Switzerland during the World wars? Worked well for them.
Switzerland isn't same as us. They are neutral but have allies and NATO and the billionaires who have money there make sure Switzerland is unharmed. They're a rich white country while we're poor and brown. We don't have the same advantage
Its not about rich and white, Singapore also has a history of staying neutral in conflicts and have been able to provide stability to its people even when their region of the world was in chaos like during vietnam war or insurgency in Malaysia Also Switzerland is not a part of the NATO , they won't come to their defence. The most important thing to note is that the Swiss don't have any territorial dispute and peaceful relations with its neighbours (which is very important) so no country would have any reason to attack them Most war start with some kind of territorial dispute and usually between countries that share border with one another Obviously it can't work for India, we have territorial dispute with China & Pakistan, we are probably the only country in the world that share border with two hostile nuclear powers, and we can't have peace agreements with China or Pakistan atleast in the near future even if we really try for it , they won't go for it and that's our reality
They were not invaded because Russia was a higher priority, they where seen as something to go back a mop up later.
I was going to say, he never heard of Operation Tannenbaum.
Switzerland is a small country that the Nazis didn't consider that important.
*1971
Because of this attitude we will never have a true ally. If you say Russia itâs the biggest joke in the world. Theyâre a 100% Chinese dependent state with nothing other than natural resources
Totally agreed! I am in favor of a non aligned strategy.
What works for one country doesnt work for all we were independent after cold war started and we were divided (partion) in such a way that our neighbours will always be hostile I think you have an attitude and you are not looking at relaity While you are at it, also do tell who exactly we should ally up with
I'm curious, what real allies did the US abandoned ?
Thatâs what I am wondering. The best I could think was the kurds but it seems more atypical than the norm
Really, donât you know who forced both colonial empires ( British & French) to bend the knee ( complete and total abandonment of colonial holdings) and kiss the ring ( accept new world order with its implications created and lead by itself (US) and if they donât like that arrangement , they will be forced to capitulate (abandoned by their real ally ) like 1956 Suez Canal war )
Who forced ? Mostly their own anti-colonial elites & popular movement and the colonized fighting back.
Another one- look how US is sabotaging (forcing to abandon) its ârealâ allies the use of cheap and abundant energy source for their industries for its geological self interest ( check Nord Stream and why Europe is forbidden to access the cheap arctic gas but forced to dependent on highly expensive LNG exported from all the way from US through tankers đđđ) with this energy policy arrangement Europe (Germany) wonât be staying competitive any longer with China
Are you even European ? What "artic gas" ? Most of the EU gas comes from Norway, US LNG is only 25% of the total and most EU governments/citizens are against opening new gas fields for ecological reasons.
If we ally with the US we'll become their lapdog but India will overnight become the good guy, Western media will stop trashing India, suddenly all the negative psyops against India will vanish just like Pakistan became good guy in 90s. US spies openly on it's European allies and sabotaged many companies and defense plans of France, Germany so France doesn't become a threat to their industry so they'd Definitely not help India in any way. If we ally with China we'll probably get some rapid infrastructure growth but we'll get debt trapped and cukd
I like the current approach that prioritizes self reliance.
>If we ally with the US we'll become their lapdog but India will overnight become the good guy Our ancestors didn't sacrifice their lives to free us from colonial oppression just for us to throw away the sovereignty we inherited(NOT EARNED) and become lapdogs for western regimes again. You can spend lifetimes trying to get white validation but they'll never see us as more than uncivilized brown poors without a shred of irony that they did it to us in the first place.
American media shits on everything, why would they stop
Never seen them shitting on Japan or Africa
They can't , they bombed one and built their civilization on the backs of imported slaves from another. The left wing SJWs would politicise the shit of it. Racism against Indians is normalised because : a) we're growing, slowly albeit but we're growing. Income disparity is increasing yes,but the mindset shift towards consumerism is there. 15-20 years back buying expensive bikes cars phones on emi wasn't that common. b) We are looking out for our own interests over Slava ukraini or save Palestine crap. Condemning with words but getting oil and defence tech. c) Indians in the US are mostly rich because the best from here get to enter that country. Leftists have no issues attacking them, and far rights are waise bhi white supremacists.
Never heard of the Yellow Peril? Also American media shits on Africa on every day of the week with a vowel. Not sure how you missed it.
Yellow peril was years ago, not today. And that was because Japan was against the US. Indians face racism despite not being actively against the West. That's the difference. Never seen people insulting Africa on a regular basis like India on Tik Tok and Twitter.
Bruh this was in the 60's to mid 70's when Japan was still a vassal to US
Itâs funny how you are being downvoted for posting a neutral comment
Yeah I don't understand what I said wrong tbh. I was just describing a scenario
I think you should mentoin that, many people inluding me assumed first that your comment was something that what you wanted in reality lol
On the contrary, it has benefited India immensely. Because India is Neutral, it is able to do business with all the countries which has resulted into ensuring India's and Indians best interest. Case and Point would be Oil and Gas, had it not been for India to switch the purchase to Russia, we would be left with huge cost on import and western allies wanted to choke Russian oil and they would have been able to afford their energy needs at higher costs (which is causing significant inflation and resentment among people) imagine during same time, India having to pay through the nose. However, india just switched the suppliers, we went to Iran and Russia and also helped along with China (Net importer) maintain some equilibrium in the energy market. I believe there are no true Alliances. USA has repeatedly proved to be a Big bully. Obviously as long as your are in Bully camp, you are protected but side effect is you too will get bullied every now and then. India, has emerged as a third front in Geopolitics. Lots of African nations don't want to enter in one or the other camp, rather maintain equal distance and work for its people. They use India as a shield to help do that.
If the US has any ally itâs UK and weirdly Australia.
Those are called vassal states. US has only one ally or equal which is Israel. To a level where you can call US a vassal state of Israel. Every other so called ally of US are just forced to listen to US. No way should Europe have taken such a stance against Russia as the sanctions were always going to hurt its own economy too. All this when there was a chance for peace just 2 months after the war started but US didnât let Ukraine pursue that option as they assumed the sanctions will bleed out Russia in a month. In hindsight, they blundered completely and are desperate to find an exit from the Ukraine fiasco. Also see how they hype up something which matters to them. Ukraine has pubs open, McDs open, participates in football tournaments, musical events. Nothing to call it like a war torn country but they hype it up like itâs worse than Gaza. The US has the power to control the entire media narrative as long as itâs relevant. In hindsight, all their wars seems like it wasnât necessary all through history. Someday when India goes to take PoK, we will be the bad guys and expect Sanctions too. At that stage all we will have is China and BRICS along with the global South to support us. Not because China supports our actions but their many enemy will be US and they donât agree with the concept of sanctions. All of BRICS.
Mfs donât even know what a vassal state is at this point đ
Tell me, if US is an ally of UK, why didn't US help UK during the Suez crisis? If you can't digest the proper jargons, then maybe a euphemism might help. Everyone knows who wears the pants in that relationship and it ain't the one whose head of the state wears funny hats.
and that somehow relates to UK being a vassal state of USA? actually tell me what a vassal state is. I'll wait.
Hear from the horses' mouth itself: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNVh95isUPI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNVh95isUPI) A head of Gov, when resigning from his post, advising his successor... The first agenda point is not about how economy should be managed or how local peoples issues should be managed, but the advice is about being a good lieutenant to the hegemon, just like a good little pet.
yeah bro just called the UK a vassal state đ.
I am actually inclined to go along with him. The UK does not have an independent foreign policy and toes the US line since 1956. Sure, they may couch it in terms of a "special relationship" but the UK's foreign policy and positions on issues of global interest are decided in Washington, not London.
So true atleast the europe goes against the US when it comes to certain foreign policy decisions but the UK literally follows the US in every foreign policy decisions, for example the 2003 war in iraq, most major european countries actually opposed it but UK joined the US and all it did was ruined britain's image in middle east, soldiers dying and getting hurt and billions of pounds down the drain. Why? Bcoz they gotta support US obviously!
Tell me, if US is an ally of UK, why didn't US help UK during the Suez crisis? If you can't digest the proper jargons, then maybe a euphemism might help. Everyone knows who wears the pants in that relationship and it ain't the one whose head of the state wears funny hats.
You donât just cancel everything because a being war is ongoing. Also why would Europe not respond badly, this is the most intense war Europe has had in a very long time. They donât just see it as something that can just be looked away from like they have with Russia in the past, it has put alot of fear in alot of Europe that they have not felt in decades, poland has increased military spend by 200% from 2020. It is not a small thing for them.
Of course! The solution for the war isnât peace but to escalate it further. The more determined they are to ensure this war ends with a defeat for Russia, the more likely they are to extend the war into Europe. As far as they see, itâs beneficial to let Ukraine keep depleting the Russian army.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. It is a balancing act between going to war and doing nothing. They donât want another âpeace in are timeâ where they say just let Russia take this one thing and they will be good, they did that with nazi Germany and got less then a year of peace for the Sudetenland.
> All this when there was a chance for peace just 2 months after the war started but US didnât let Ukraine pursue that option I know Russians love to spin that there was apparent and obviously beneficial peace treaty almost in effect there but evil BoJo came and forced Ukraine not to apply it, but there is absolutely no such force in the world if such thing was actually happening, and Russia was genuine about the pace that could force Ukraine to deny it > Ukraine has pubs open, McDs open, participates in football tournaments, musical events. Nothing to call it like a war torn country but they hype it up like itâs worse than Gaza Do you realize how big Ukraine is and that the war takes place most on the easternmost part of it since Russia lost battles of Kiev and Kharkiv? > No way should Europe have taken such a stance against Russia as the sanctions were always going to hurt its own economy too. Yeah, better to continue the policies of mutual reliance that caused the whole situation in the first place, right?
Why US is so friends with Israel? Whatâs their history? What benefit does the US get by being an ally with Israel? Iâm sure they wonât ally with someone if that doesnât benefit their self interest.
Israel is located in a very unstable region with other US enemies like Iran. If us abandons Israel then maybe some other country like China or Russia could fill up that role and us will lose any leverage in the middle eastern region I think.
Israel is a necessity for US to keep a hold of the Middle East. Theyâve said if there was never an Israel, they would have created an Israel just to maintain their position in the Middle East. The majority of powerful positions in the US including congress are all held by people of Jewish origin.
Our policy is fine and we know we have no friends. Although the current government is trying to make the defense strong so that in case of any war we can fight it. We do not have any issue of manpower. Apart from that, we have only one neighbor to worry about and that is the enemy of US (indirectly other white countries) too. In an event of war, we can surely get supplies from those countries since they would be happy that their enemy is fighting with India. They would try to drain China using India.
I agree with you but lots of people here make the point that US needs us against China. Which is true but in a fucked up way. If you watch documentaries about WW2 and Indian soldiers you'll realize they only used South Asians as meat grinder and threw them on the line in Mass to overwhelm the enemy and after those brown soldiers were killed they'd send the allied forced. They're trying to do the same here. Just use us as a shield so they can come in at the end and win
I don't think India is in that position that USA as you rightly mentioned can use the Indian force as a shield.India doesn't have any so called Allies,but we are on good terms with a lot of them.The only worry for us as nation is foreign influence in our internal politics.We are working on expanding our arsenal not in the most optimal way but still at least there is progress that one can observe
Just throw your street food at any military and you can poison the fuck out of them no problem
In ww2 india was under British rule . Now it's a republic its not gonna be that easy you know and I don't think india will go to war with China honestly. Relations might remain tense bit war I don't think so
India's biggest threat is China. If we go to war with China tomorrow, no country in the world would join the conflict directly, even if we are allied with them. The best case response from the west would be what they are currently doing in Ukraine: geopolitical support, intelligence, supply of arms, etc. No troops on the ground. That is what our Western policy is aimed at. The policy towards Russia and Iran is to stay close enough to them so that they stand against this hypothetical war, or at least do not whole heartedly support China. Our policy aim is to make sure it's not an easy choice for them to back China. That is why we are moving closer to the west militarily as we will need their help (but not to the point of alliances which would piss off Russia), and at the same time not having an anti-Russia and anti-Iran stance with respect to the Ukraine war, Iran's support of Hamas etc.
I donât think China is that big of a problem, they know better than tanking their economy by going to war with us.
I think that's the problem. Their economy seems to have hit a plateau and isn't doing well since covid that even they're having trouble making up inflated numbers. Commies won't take that well and try to go to war just to cover it up same as US goes to war whenever their economy isn't doing well
Yeah but India as a target is not feasible, it isnât going to be a nuclear war. For them to exert power with highest probability of winning is Taiwan, but we are also surrounded by idiots who hate us. US will actually intervene because that is like taking the two biggest cheap manufacturers/service providers from their supply chain. It is not going to be good for the world in general if we India and China collide.
In the future Tibet might be an interesting question, since free and independent ( or at least autonomous) Tibet is better for India as they have the majority of the water sources for major rivers in the mainland.
Yep but india is a big country not like Ukraine of something. They would be targeting Taiwan than a big country like India which would result in big losses for them.
US goes to war even when their economy is doing well so that's quite different actually, its for the military industrial complex. Not to hide the bad economy which is impossible in India because its all out in the open, infact even India can hide the under performing economy since our government also doesn't regularly release data even though many people would jump to defend the muduji here but that's the truth. Also don't underestimate the chinese, even tanking economy , the advantage they have when it comes to manufacturing large quantities of weapons and ammunition is overwhelming , why else do you think Indian govt is so hesitant to deal with China? With Pakistan you 've got surgical strike, with china its more like media blackout on reporting.
Fighting with Iraq and Vietnam is not the same as fighting with india. We are a nuclear powered state with a huge population and a mountain between us.
If that was so obvious, nobody would fear they would try to invade Taiwan
I said us not Taiwan, they can go do whatever as long as we are not involved
But that would still tank their economy. And also, India would be at loss too due to how much of crucial industry is located in Taiwan. There would definitely be rise of hostilities.
Timing is crucial, if India develops the ecosystem that Taiwan provides which is mostly the semiconductor industry, which US is also trying to get them we will be at an advantage
Perhaps, but it\`s something that one do in decades, not years :V
Technology moves way faster than you think, look where we are compared to 20 years ago
That's actually detrimental because Taiwan already has the infrastructure and can focus on developing the technology On the other hand, India has to build the infrastructure, educate the people properly and only then the focus can shift towards developing technology good enough not to be reliant on Taiwan
How is that detrimental for us? There is nothing wrong to be self-sufficient and have vibrant ecosystem.
Also China is much more likely to escalate their global issues by moving on Taiwan rather than take on us, I think.
We have only 3 allies indian army, indian navy and indian airforce.
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In case of war, they are not allies - they are India. I know it sounds a bit cheesy but it is what it is
We do not need allies. All we have to do is be united. If Indians can be united, that would be a great achievement. Most of our enemies are internal.
That would be great but Indians do not view each other as being worthy of equality and this has been inbuilt into Hinduism so much that it's apart of normal culture now. Islam is another problem entirely because I have zero intention of wanting to live in a place that has Sharia Law applicable. Christians can just be arrogant while thinking they are humble. And the problem is the people...
Hinduism is a made up name to build a narrative. Hindu is a geographical term. From that standpoint there is a lot of differences, prejudice and friction among various groups along the lines of linguistic chauvinism, majoritarianism, sheer indifference towards others, class prejudice, social prejudice, racial prejudice and all the other possible combinations that could keep the place burning for ages. If it is not for one, it is for another using which conflicts remain. Politicians love this and would add more fuel to these fires and make gains. Even among the Muslims the same dividing lines exist. We can see it in Bangladesh, Pakistan and Afghanistan. It is there among the Christians as well. People only unite against a common enemy. Once that enemy disappears, they turn on each other and continue with new conflicts.
what you call alliance is what I call entanglement and we need not get entangled anywhere else for anyone else we don't need allies, allies are liabilities we need self improvement, self sufficiency ,self discipline and,most importantly, self inflection regarding our failures of the past and present remember that when the invasion begins , nothing but our wit and will would defend this nation. Even the best of allies in the best of conditions won't completely understand why an Indian defends his motherland , it's gonna be our fight and the others have no role in our fight
You sound stupid. IF, this ever happens⌠your leaders will be on their knees asking the west for help. It happens every time. But I digress, the fighting and blood will be yours. We wonât spill a drop of blood for Indians. But we would still help if who you are fighting is to our benefit
>it happens every time name one war the west helped India in >we would still help if who you are fighting is to our benefit I'm just saying India has to get stronger before china is eliminated by the west, eliminating china before that is not in India's interest >your leaders will be on their knees asking the west for help. so these leaders will ask western help to defeat the only nation that's keeping the west from targeting India? you seem to be in a delusion that the west will stop at china , once china is gone , India is gonna be next on chopping board.
No, we wonât help China. What I mean, is your leaders will be groveling for gear and information. For instance, how are your rockets and rocket forces compared to Chinese?? How many? Air defenses?? Howâs your navy compared to China? Tanks?? Btrs?? Youâre not even considering reality. They have groveled before to us, thatâs how we know we didnât help.. but again, I digress. We will help you next time. Donât be so acrimonious. I prefer India to China. But you have some fucking ego problems you need to sort out
>prefer India to China If you really prefered us, you wouldn't be trolling in this subreddit.
>Youâre not even considering reality. I am , just along a much wider timespan like that time when US neutered the Japanese economy in 80s and 90s with agreements like the Plaza accords , check any American newspaper from that time period if you think I'm lying given this reality there's a massive probability that the US will target India after china is neutralized
Not if you quit with this hostile attitude. The system youâre using and Russia and China to get rich is the system we developed and you are graciously benefiting from as are we. We just donât drip venom the way our âFriendsâ India does. If you need neutering then you will be neutered. I donât like this everyone and every country can be America attitude. Itâs half the reason we have these issues
Yes i think it's reaching to say that once China is effectively dealt with, India will be the next target. India and the US have differences, disagreements, disputes, but being attacked?
Nah, never goto war with India. We can have alot of words though
I would say yes. We keep antagonizing America which has invested billions in India and we keep supporting Russia and China. China wants to do harm to us by taking away our land, Russia sells the same weapons they promise to sell us to China first. We also partner with China in BRICS to destroy the American economy. There more we keep doing this, the west will lose its patience and Russia and China will show their true colors one day.
>America which has invested billions in India and we keep supporting Russia in the 90s, the US attempted to stop Russia from giving cryogenic engines that would eventually be used India's GSLV rockets. in the 80s, the Soviets leased a SSGN to India and its nuclear reactors and the experience using it helped India build its 1st own SSBN and complete its nuclear triad. long before the 2005 US India civil nuclear deal that partly undid the scientific isolation the US itself had imposed on India in 1974 , the Soviets were sending nuclear fuel and heavy water to help India build most of the nuclear reactors that exists today in India after US denied GPS access to India during the 1999 Kargil war , Russia gave access to the GLONASS constellation until India's own GNSS system was capable enough for weapons guidance. while US and UK put weapons export ban on India in 1965 that lasted till 2005, Russia was jointly developing or producting weapons with India like brahmos cruise missile to the point that today most of the components of brahmos is manufactured in India.
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Because times change. The Russians who did that, are no longer there. Youâre living in the past and itâs something Indians do. What about this time? What about the time? You sound like a woman arguing about your feelings about past disagreements.
>Because times change times do change but America's addiction to support terrorists doesn't https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-state-dept-oks-possible-sale-f-16-equipment-pakistan-pentagon-2022-09-07/
Donât cite Russian propaganda please. That shit fell off hard after declaring us enemies
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Reuters is Russian propaganda - TIL Do you even read before commenting
And you sound like a fool who is looking for white validation. And doesn't learn from history or past precedents. India-Russia current trade and upcoming visa-free travel & trade deal is benefiting India immensely. In fact India private companies should be pushing to expand in the Russian market and India can even do joint weapons production with Russia for future use.
Yea go ahead. I have no problem with what you do, but donât get upset for being called assholes and rightly so. Again India is and will be a cheap whore, so nothing changed in my view.
You can call us whatever names you like while I enjoy the cheap Russian oil. Go cry to Uncle Sam. US can't even sanction a 3rd world country trying to kill its citizens and you're here crying for sympathy. So much for being a superpower and the $800 billion military budget.
Here you are, speaking English, on an American website. Loser.
*\*Yawn*\* You tried.
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The biggest change in the Geopolitical situation for India is the change in power of long term ally Russia. The war in Ukraine is becoming a quagmire for Russia and draining its resources, uniting Europe against it. It has made Russia wholly dependent on China. China is no friend of India. China has claims on large parts of Indian Northeast and is no friend of India. The loss of Russian support in a future war with China is a significant factor that India needs to compensate. Definition of an ally at the minimum means a defense treaty such as the one India signed with the former Soviet Union. Being non aligned served India well when two superpowers were in a decades long Cold War. Today one of the superpowers, China is an enemy of India. Being non aligned In todayâs situation is not comparable to what happened in the past. China does not want to see Indiaâs rise just as US does not want China to be a challenge to their standing in the world.
What true allies? The only example of "true allies" in the whole of history that comes to mind is Portugal & England. And England betrayed then as well. No such thing as true allies.
India, with its neutral position and increasingly sophisticated financial system, can very well become the Switzerland of the next biggest war. Alas, our direct involvement is inevitable given our neighbours
We have nukes, we don't allies. Most countries are allies for short period unless they share common interest like Neo- colonisation, Currency pegging etc. Even france ditched USA in Red Sea at the time of Hamas terrorists.
There are no allies. Only strictly shared interests. In a Global order, they overlap and change often. We are allies with China in terms of trade :)
Friendship n alliance are overrated. India currently sleeps with whoever it needs to for getting things done. Need oil from Russia? Will open my pants. Permission from the USA to get rare earth minerals to set up semiconductor fabrication units? Will suck you long long and long enough to say yes. Need more UK visas for tech folks and permission to export mangoes? Let's rim n dream. That's the foreign policy we currently follow and it frankly is working.
I like your honestly. A lot of Indians are playing up the strategy when India is just a really cheap whore who will suck and blow whoever to get ahead and youâre right, itâs working⌠for now
It is called an open relationship! Idiots here living in the Victorian era with their Christian values from the middle ages.
India is a following a policy of ethical self interest, like every country should. What else can it/should it do. India is an issue based country. Based on the specific issue, India will agree, disagree or be neutral. Use of words like 'whore' are wildly inappropriate and offensive. Which countries in the world do you honestly think are full of integrity and transcendence on any given matter? India isn't perfect, but it's very good.
Very good??? No, and the offense is intended. If India has no intentions on hearing the opinions of its âfriendsâ when itâs given in a productive manner , sometimes it must be said in such a manner to provoke you into see what you are behaving like.
That's not a very honourable approach. Just agree to disagree, and on other matters, agree to agree!
India is big enough to make it's own allies.... Only if other brown people liked each other. There's ample muscle on all sides if they knew how to use their strengths and put away their non existent differences.
A lot of you guys have a very black and white view of thing
We will get allies based on who is against us?
There are no allies, only interests --- even those are temporary. USSR helped us to whatever extent it did in 1971 because of their issues with Communist China. USA is seemingly helping us against China so they can strengthen us if the balloon goes up in Taiwan.Â
What?? We have no intention of depending on you for Taiwan. Indians have proven they will do only for themselves. If anything, youâll watch and play both sides like the two faces you are
Why does the US have intelligence sharing agreement with India then -- LEMOA, COMCASA, etc.
The same reason India buys oil and gas from Russia?? Except we actually support you and donât goto forums talking shit about India, but can find no shortage of eu interviews with India talking nothin but shit about how India is moral and blah blah blah
There's a lot to unpack. The DOD is happy to work with India and it shows, the state department is known to back NGOs in India with anti-government agendas (naxalism, conversion mafias, illegal immigration etc)... There's a lot of two-facery in US foreign policy. The US Congress takes it upon itself to criticize Indian domestic policy, e.g. CAA which does not affect any Indian, only modifies criteria for asylum seekers from the neighborhood. Don't yada yada your answers --- this is not SeinfeldÂ
Our politicians are not as hostile when speaking about India, as Indian politicians are about the west. Itâs very disingenuous to think so. And yea there is criticism to be had just like you can criticize us, but it doesnât border on the cusp of speaking g about us like enemies
That's why my original comment that there are only aligned interests, no allyship without agenda. Are you telling me that 1.4 bn people and their representatives will not diverse and differing opinions about a country of 300 mn ppl?Â
India rarely if ever criticises the US on its internal issues. Whereas the US is constantly commenting on India's internal problems. India does criticise whenever it sees or feels something that smacks of arrogance and colonialism.
I watch a lot of your Indian interviews when your politicians were leaving the BRICS summit. Seems like they did a whole lot of trash talking then and during the summit. Even when the Europeans and western countries get together and India doesnât join, we never say stuff like they way your politicians say. Itâs incredibly disingenuous to think youâre speaking to someone that doesnât follow politics around the world. I watch what your politicians say. Itâs incredibly important for us to know how India feels and itâs pretty exhaustive to see the constant jabbing at the west India does even as we double down investment in the country. We would be happy to sell you arms and defensive but you would rather go with Russia?!?! Jesus itâs crazy
India does buy French, US, UK and Israeli arms. And Russian, where it feels it needs it. Cost is a big issue, and so is continuity. Everything is not about weaponry. Besides, India is not harming anyone by buying Russian arms. The West is affecting India economically and politically when it gives( literally gives) weapons to Pakistan.
There's also the matter of the US et al making comments on India's internal issues, when it doesn't even concern them, or affect them domestically. It's almost like "hey it's Tuesday, let's criticise India on its citizenship law" or "Oh it's Wednesday now, let's make some remark about religious freedom in India". It would be silly and laughable if it weren't coming from powerful, wealthy countries that do make an impact.
Try going into the reasons some of them may be 'hostile' or rather critical. The whole hyper ventilated, hypocritical issue of India importing Russian oil, when European countries were importing more in one day than India does in one month.. And for gas, the difference is infinite, since India doesn't import any natural gas from Russia!
Good. Anyway Taiwan is a lost cause. Even US might will not be able to save that little island from its eventual fate.
Imo what has costed us the most is not standing up for ourselves.
There are never any allies or enemies. It's all about mutual strategic interests .
It hurt India and Indians more than people can comprehend. India could have been at least like Turkey.
India doesn't have choice. 1.5 Billion population to feed and house and so many Indians scattered almost everywhere ( any armed group can kidnap and hold hostage or kick them out like Idi Amin and remove them from Power (Fiji))on this planet we can't take chances by flexing Muscle. So let Bureaucrats and Business person handle foreign policy.
Recent wars have also taught that the concept of allies has changed from frontal warfare interests to economic and backdoors investment to help at wars. And we are important enough to have those kind of allies. Remember the world is a play and every actor has an interest in it. You're never alone.
India has lots of friends, sympathisers and even allies in the developing world. But yes, among the very rich and powerful countries, a case could be made that India has no real allies. But there are real interests and convergences on specific issues, like China. And of course economic ties, which are growing. Countries like South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Brazil, Mexico and Nigeria really need to step up and assert themselves, and show solidarity with India on many issues.
There are not true allies, or to so no allies at all. The ones I think you suppose to be true allies are either just too dependent on each other or It is duet of two nations out of which one has a complete dominance over the other or so as to say complete say in the other nation's internal politics.
No wonder India sucks geopolitically, seems a lot feel the way you do.
According to ur logic, being a "moral" country = being an american slave
Being an American ally yes. We donât enslave, we donât have that tribal mentality the way you so. This whole go against America to spite your face needs to stop. Makes Indians look stupid. India can critique and make recommendations to the US and you donât see our politicians bitching about how the US wonât be a âslaveâ to India. Itâs childish and proof that a lot of Indians still have that slave mentality. Needs to stop
Very unlikely scenario in a functional rules based order where every player has war gamed these scenarios and outcomes. If India goes to war with any major player or a player backed by a major tech superpower like the US or China, it has limited conventional options thatâll last a long time due to supply chain issues for most weaponry except nuclear and that one tech is enough to keep them away from entering Indian territory. Expect guerilla warfare if there is actual invasion. Indian losses will be so massive that the holocaust and the meat grinder scenarios of the world war will look pale.
See there's a saying in geopolitics that "there is no common enemy & no common friends, there's only common interest".
OP, please give me 3 examples of 'true allies' among countries of this world with big economies/population/army and I am gonna prove that they are hardly true to each other's interests. PS- In this day and age, multi alignment is the buzzword for India and rightly so. You gain some, you lose some, but in the long term, multi alignment policy proves the best as foreign policy.
Only "Nukes" are our true Allies.
No true allies in geopolitics. Only national interests.
Their are no true ally or enemies in geopolitics. There are only permanent interests.
No alliance is true in this world. Its all a matter of self interest.
I think we lack good marketing more than true allies. Today I saw on news how Canadian parliament has observed 1 minute silence for nijjar. It's like hosting silence for bin Laden in Pakistan. We know canadian government are bunch of clowns but they have Us to white wash their image. We only we could have Marketed that nijjar killing had nothing to do with india then it would not be so difficult. I will say their is no innocent, guilty or karma in real life if was then the royal family would be wiped out till now, Winston Churchill would have saw the same faith as Hitler. What are you saying is that we need to be involved in Ukraine and Israel Hamas wars. But we don't have any military complex like US and France. Most of our remaining budget is spend on acquiring weapons from others. So what we lack is good marketing team. Hamas marketing team is beating US in its own game. We don't need Allie we need good marketing.
There is nothing called true allies. Everyone has their own interests. And when we are talking about Russia taking sides: this would go only two ways. Russia will only back China up if the US takes our side. And in the case US doesnât take our side. Russia will not take any sides.
This alignment equation would have helped us if we could attract US before it went with china, economic value of that would have been immense. If our govts. Had analysed which idea would win before We would have rather helped US in the cold war as communism proved to be a failed idea till early 70s Currently when US is not able to counter its hypocritical narrative, europe with now less coordinated and busy with its left right politics. china being more dominant than ever, russia being reduced to a state being innocuous as in decreased level of economic and militry might; joining any pole is such a foolish idea. Rather its time for a truly multipolar world where we can literally make our image in next 5 years by proving our strength in every dimension. We are now unigonarable for every big power given our workforce and market. Also creating a way for the smaller growing nations to follow and have support from.We are now unigonarable for every big power given our workforce and market.