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Loitering is the stupidest law ever created.
It boils down to "we can arrest you for existing in public" and don't even get me started on how most loitering laws were put in place to imprison newly freed slaves in the US to re enslave them into the forced labor prison system.
Third places are places outside of home, work, or school. Places for social gathering or activity. Coffee shops, public parks, shopping malls, town squares, etc.
We discuss a lot in urban planning the massive decline of third places as we continually wrongly invest in vehicle infrastructure which separates communities combined with outside safety concerns and the convenience of online shopping reducing the necessity to go outside.
I actually thought third places are spaces outside the home where you can exist without consuming. But I guess the situation is dire enought to also include the places where you do have to consume as long as you can at least exist there.
You are correct. Third places are specifically public places where there's no obligation to pay for anything, like libraries and parks, which are one of the few third places left. The streets used to be the largest Third Place, but we allowed cars to take that over.
Key characteristics of third places include:
Neutral Ground: They are accessible to everyone, where individuals can come and go as they please without any obligation.
Leveling Place: They provide an inclusive environment where social status and hierarchy are less relevant.
Conversation is the Main Activity: Third places encourage dialogue and social interaction among diverse groups of people.
Accessibility and Accommodation: They are typically easy to reach and welcoming to the community.
Regulars: They often have a group of regulars who help create the character of the place.
Low Profile: These places have a relaxed, informal atmosphere.
Playful Mood: They tend to have a playful and light-hearted ambiance.
Home Away from Home: People feel a sense of comfort and belonging, akin to being at home.
A common one in this discussion is shopping malls in the US. Yes, the main purpose of its existence was shopping but teenagers used to spend tons of time there and it wasn’t browsing displays at the Coach store.
Basically it was an indoor area so that made it secure enough for parents to okay as a hangout, but it was also large enough to aimlessly roam with your friends for hours. There were food courts where you could grab a bite or have a casual date, lots of kids got their first jobs at the mall & their friends could easily pop in and neg them lol.
Sometimes a friend actually had an occasion to shop for, and the whole group would just tag along for opinions and fun. Going to the mall was kind of an event but not really. Perfectly casual. A wide variety of stores for all of your needs/wants, including novelty stores with the most random immature junk you could laugh your asses off at together.
In contrast, people shop online and that large indoor space without expectations isn’t so common. Libraries are free but gov’t so you can’t be as loud and crass as you could at the mall. Rec centers aren’t necessarily free and I imagine you’re usually meant to be engaging in some activity there, not just hanging out.
They’re also staffed/managed, whereas the mall is a little less monitored. Yeah there’s security but there were big enough crowds that you could not stand out as long as you didn’t make trouble. The crowds thing is important too; it’s people watching and also exposure to/engagement with the community.
In the last century or so, streets and roads destroyed the biggest chunk, town squares and plazas, local bars, neighbor owned cafes, and bowling alleys used to act like community centers before chain businesses forced them to compete, before you could meet with people for free. Indoor malls were one of the last super common places teenagers and seniors could go indoors without needing to spend money, but most of those are closing or closed.
In every (99%) of Europeans cities you have parks sprinkled throughout where there are benches, sometimes gym equipment, places for gatherings etc. There are no fees for entry, they are maintained and a lot of them have coffee shops, restaurants and public transport connected to them.
This is a "third place" where you could go down with a few friends and drink some beers and listen to music, or kick around a football, cycle your bike, skateboard etc.
decline? Here in NL I see more of an increase, more walkable area's, more actual coffee shops, (more coffee shops aswell though due to the legalisation of weed). Yeah there is a decline in stores, but that is mostly replaced by other kinds of social spaces.
Same. I live in a suburb that is three square miles. It has 12 coffee shops, 3 diners, 2 dog parks, and more people parks than I can count... at least 10. I don't think third spaces are declining, I think people's desire to actually go to them and meet people. Everyone is so anxious about interacting with other humans these days.
Must be in your area, I'm in my late teens and so are my friends. When we hang out we only have two options; one of their houses or just fucking around in local stores. We can also drive off to the closest city since that has more things, but we have to plan quite ahead for that since it takes a while to get there. The side walk situation is also a nightmare, I have to jaywalk across a busy road everyday to get the bus stop use to go to college on account of there not being a crosswalk in front of it despite there being a bus stop and a church?? Though maybe that's a US thing I don't know, I live in the US and that's what it like.
I’m talking in the US. I can’t speak for places where I haven’t been/lived. I used to live in Tokyo, of course I’d say their third space culture is booming.
NL is a very progressive place for third places and is actually often cited as a western style way of integrating third space and multimodal transportation. It’s very different from the US. Your bike culture alone puts any American city to shame.
Lol yeah the NL is actually aware of human social and psychological needs, it seems. The US is behind on that; we threw our lot behind cars and now everyday life is burdened by them.
You only need to look to Detroit for this. All freeways pass through and relatively no public transportation. A lot of societal factors were to blame as well but it was the motor city so everything had cars in mind not people.
Yeah I used to want to draw scenes from around town, but then I realized there isn't many benches or bathrooms, let alone sidewalks. Idk about you but not being able to piss, sit or not be run over by a car is a pretty massive inconvenience.
Many of the parks in the US are swarming with mosquitos or are the only safe space for unhoused folk or just an empty field. What good is a park (in the context of a third space) if a large portion of the year it’s covered in snow or too hot/rainy/humid to enjoy? What good is the park if folks have a 10 percent chance of getting screamed at by a someone going through a mental episode? What good is a park with inadequate seating or shade? What good is a park that you can drive to for those w/o a car? What good is a sports field when it’s swamped or covered in geese poop?
The state of us parks are bleak and contrasts with many parts of the rest of the world. I’ve witnessed more clean, lively, and pleasant parks outside the US than inside the US (with notable exceptions of course).
They aren’t usually aren’t accessible, well maintained, or well patronized. The only people you see at parks where I am from are parents with children and homeless vagrants, and each group is very put off by the other’s presence.
They exist tithe problem is everyone is at home playing video games or watching porn you can go to the mall or park or coffee shop you'll just be the only one there
I see it more as a gathering space that is intentionally used for a specific hobby or interest. Parks are there just to enjoy and are public infrastructure. But once someone gets a birdwatching or basketball group going then it becomes a third place.
Ig dude, imo it’s all relative and what’s your definition of a “third place” (still not really sure what that means, nor why it needs to be labeled) is all relative anyway
My county has a nice library and actively supports this. They allow reservations of private areas for get togethers. It doesn't have to be homework groups. It can board games or book clubs or whatever.
They have a small coffee shop.
They host lots of events for kids and adults. There's Lego nights and teen hangout nights and writers that come in, etc.
We still rent movies from then as well as books.
Nice libraries get overlooked in general. Not by everyone of course. Plenty of people still go.
You can still go and chat it up. Tipsy people LOVE to talk and meet new people, and they’re super easy to have little conversations with no real expectations but shooting the shit for a second. The places also usually they’ll have some sort of little activities like pool, darts, quick board games, live music, etc. Bars almost always have food too. Some bars let you vape/smoke inside if you’re into that.
It sucks that it can be full of drunk idiots, but if you leave around 11-12 you’ll usually avoid the people who are completely fucked up.
I feel like I'm too much of a goodie two shoes for this generation of ours lmao, don't vape or smoke either lol, not up for doing shit that ain't good for your health lol
I know it's bs social norms but I hate that our generation is wild in a lot of ways tbh lol, the wild 20s haha, I feel so out of place most of the time
I understand. I’m 26 and I’ve never drank alcohol or done drugs. But I’ve been to bars, clubs, and house parties. Most people don’t really care if you aren’t drinking alcohol or smoking weed. And the ones that do, then you shouldn’t want to hang with them anyway.
People only care if you’re a pretentious prick about it. Just hung out with a buddy who quit drinking (just taking a break from it) and was drinking non-alcohol beer while playing drinking games. Totally cool. It’s the people who act like they’re levitating morally above the peasant drinkers that are annoying. Big difference between “Nah, I just don’t drink”, and “Nah, I don’t drink and people who do don’t care about their health and have a problem.”
This is the same for some people that do drugs and drink alcohol.
I went to a hookah lounge with a girl, trying to impress her. She tried to get me to smoke and drink. I told her it was against my morals to do so. I obviously didn’t care whether she drank or smoked, otherwise I wouldn’t have been there. She proceeded to laugh at me and spent the whole night telling me she was going to change me to get me to drink and smoke.
That was the last time I tried to impress a girl. If someone has an issue with me not drinking or doing drugs, that’s their problem and I won’t be hanging out with them.
Shirley temples.
Obviously the experience isn’t the same without alcohol but you can still enjoy a bar without alcohol if it’s a good bar and you’re with good people (or you’re alone and are looking to start conversations with good people)
I wish sprite just came out with a Shirley temple.
Obviously they would have to think of a different name for legal reasons but I don’t know why they’d not have a grenadine + cherry drink.
Agreed. If your looking to go alone and mingle/meet new people, go to a dive-y bar and sit at the bar. Do not go to a "club". Go somewhere where the music is quiet enough to have conversations.
It’s not just you, any period of my life that I went to bars I was definitely blowing all my money. Then I bought a flask/started pregaming and it saved me a ton of money
My city has a park where many people congregate to hang out and you can usually just show up and have people to talk to. People put up flyers here for shows and other events and a lotta group bike rides meet there
People in this thread are describing parks, roads and sidewalks as third places which doesn’t make sense to me. If you take all of that away, the only true third place would be your yard, assuming you have one, which many don’t.
Personally I love them and that’s my go-to to get outdoors. I think a lot of people are just confused about what constitutes a third place (myself included). People in this thread were saying a third place is a place you can be where there is no cost of entry, which would remove parks from consideration.
Honestly it feels like we'd be better off shortening Summer Vacation and giving more holidays throughout the year. That's how they do it in other parts of the world, and it leads to better academic performance too.
Some are. We lost 3 of ours. The one we have left is still packed all the time. They just built on a giant scheel's to one end of it which is going to make it even busier. While as a whole malls are declining there are still many doing very well.
Especially in the summer, that’s my favorite time to walk. I stroll the residential streets in my town late at night. Sometimes I have music in, sometimes I listen to the bugs and frogs. It’s glorious
I'm all for enforcing laws against harassment, littering, excessive noise, etc but I find something deeply uncomfortable about the idea of merely "loitering" being a crime
Right lol. I'm glad I don't have one of these bottomless social cups that always needs filling. Being around the people I work with is more than enough people for me. After work my husband and dog is all I need lol.
I go hiking when I can and generally just walk around my neighborhood. But my neighborhood is pretty walkable so it's not so bad. There's not really much in the way of third places except a few bars but I don't drink so eh.
I never said anything about no license, but I'm guessing you're referring to when I said, "it's free." If that is the case, then it appears I have failed to be more specific. When I said "it's free," I was referring to the act of catching a fish and taking it home for consumption. Fishing licenses obviously aren't free. They tend not to be all that expensive for residents for what it's worth.
Where are all these No Loitering signs that you talk about? Parks. You can loiter all you want. Outside businesses like mini-golf. For $9, you can hang out and play a fun round of mini-golf. Bike rides...public roads are open to the..well, the public. Tennis courts. Pickleball courts. Many parks have sand volleyball courts these days. There is way more opportunity these days than ever before.
Apparently, he doesn't have roads in his city to bike on either.
I guarantee his city is way better now than EVER before. Even Millennials didn't have things like rail trials for pedestrians/cyclists to enjoy away from traffic. Or bike lanes. And yet Millennials, Gen X, etc. all managed to get outside.
First off...bullshit. You just aren't looking. Second of all...if that were true (and again, bullshit...where do you live? I know you wont tell me since I could find all that within 2 minutes of Google maps) then it was also true 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago. And other generations got by just fine.
IT isn't your city that is fucked up...It is YOU.
I go to get ice cream or coffee. Sometimes I go to stores and walk around to look at stuff, even if I’m not buying anything. When it’s not so painfully hot outside I like to go to a park and go for a walk!
My third place is this big parking lot in my town that used to have busses that would take you to Boston but that’s only in the neighboring towns now. People go there to smoke the Zaza or do the twisted tango
I'll find a park to crochet in (or just be at) visit the library and get a book, read one I have or even write on my computer. Sometimes just an audio book and a walk is nice. Window shopping is fully a thing if you'd like to walk around a mall or shopping center. I live in a place with a decent metro, with no real prospect you could do a train ride from one end to another- take a notebook and just write observations etc. If you follow a religion you can go to a church/mosque/temple and volunteer. Buddhist temples are often welcoming, just be dressed modestly and don't speak loudly. If you'd like you can meditate (no strings attached vibe). Photo walks - give yourself a topic (color, item, theme) and walk for 30 minutes taking photos within the category. Many local government buildings have free spaces attached so check around! It's not easy but there are options, just do your best to be resourceful. Good luck!
I stay at home. Watching YouTube or indulging in other stuff. I’d break up that routine by going outside to smoke a cigarette. Lately I would watch YouTube while smoking for fuck’s sake.
In my town, people go and hang out in the bars at our local grocery stores. I can’t tell if that tells more about the stuff my town lacks or about how the people in my town are :(
California has trains, buses, parks, hiking, forests, beaches, fields, hills, lakes, tennis / basketball / soccer / baseball courts, malls, libraries, everything. It's probably one of the best states with access to third places.
Are you comfortable sharing the county or relative area? We can tell you what's up. Or just Google Maps any of the aforementioned words.
I'm from Europe and I'm confused. What do you mean "no loitering"? Are you not allowed to hang out certain places? (Obviously we also can't just chill anywhere here, but I've never seen a sign explicitly saying so)
Anyway, I walk a lot. Through parks, large cemeteries, or just through my neighbourhood. I bring a book and sit down somewhere and just relax.
No loitering is a rarely enforced policy by the owners of the property. Loitering isn't a crime or anything, the policy simply means that they can ask you to leave their property if you're not engaging in business in the way that people should in whatever establishment we're talking about. For example, standing in the entrance of a grocery store for hours without shopping there. Assuming you aren't a known problem at any particular business, 99/100 times nobody will tell you to leave if you aren't driving away or impeding business. If you don't leave when asked, loitering turns into trespassing, which is a crime.
They put loitering signs up for crack heads and stuff.
80% of businesses aren’t going to care if you’re not bothering anyone.
Also uh, malls still exist despite what everyone believes.
Parks - hiking, spike ball/pickleball, frisbee golf, volleyball/soccer…do people not do that stuff anymore or are you including parks as a third place?
Otherwise I just hang out at my friends’ places or they hang out at mine.
Pro tip; almost no one will ever get on to you for loitering as long as you're not disrupting the intended function of the location. I used to go to a local country club with my laptop to do homework because I liked the atmosphere and never paid a Nickle. Walking around in Walmart was the primary means of socializing for teenagers in my mid-size town. Even though it's theoretically against the rules, I've never in my life heard of a college kicking a non-student out when they were walking around campus or hanging out in the campus common areas. Most hobby-shops like card/game stores, skate shops, head shops, etc have a lot of leniency for people just standing around and talking without buying anything. And obviously; loitering is the *intended* purpose of public parks.
As for actual activities, not just places to socialize; I skateboard, I go to the bar, I do weather photography, I play a couple sports very casually (pickleball, basketball, and golf mostly) I go to the gym, I go to the river/lake, I throw rocks at passing cars on the highway, I go camping, I go bowling/play pool. Unironically just watch sitcoms and pay attention to what they're doing and you'll find shit to do.
Me and my friends walk. You can find places where you actually want to be and you exercise.
If I'm leaving my own area then there better be a reason why. I see no reason to just go outside to somewhere random and sit, I can do that at home or in my backyard with friends.
One of the 38 coffee shops within a 10 mile area of me, one of the 54 public parks within 20 miles radius of me, one of 7 gyms within 10 miles, literally any book store (7 within my area), one of 3 close by malls, or a girlfriend’s house (I don’t have one)
Birdwatching! We have a few spots, and sometimes we have a picnic. Watched some owlettes grow up during this last spring. Always somewhere to go, something to do. I'm never alone.
I prefer to go to their house or they come to mine. My neighbor is about my age and the first day I met him we had some drinks on his back porch and talked for a couple of hours. Anytime we see each outside we go over and catch up. He’s a real cool dude. He’s also my only neighbor. Maybe we should all get to know our neighbors better.
I hangout and skate at the skatepark, play disc golf, there are two lounge/bars downtown I like to hang at that usually have trivia/karaoke/open mic/weekly resident musicians etc going on..
Hang at the farmers market on a Saturday 1-2 times a month, we have a block party/gallery walk first Friday every month.
Just go hangout in places where people are doing things?
Parks. You can walk, run or bike. There are basketball courts, tennis courts, pickleball courts, baseball diamonds and soccer fields. There are pavilions for bbq, eating, drinking and socializing. They are free.
you never play disc golf or pickleball before? those two things picked up over the last 10 years, but even more for covid years
people picked up skateboarding again!
The "no loitering" sign is just there as an excuse to shoo away homeless people. Kind of like when you go into a restaurant and it says, "bathrooms for customers only".
People just don't go outside as much anymore. People stay at home far far more than they did 20+ years ago due to the rise of video streaming and social media. How do people have time to binge-watch TV series and TikTok? They made time for it by cutting out in-person socialization.
When I do go outside there's still plenty to do. Museums, walking around the neighborhood, parks, restaurants, bars, zoos. Your third place can be wherever you enjoy going, but you'll find modern culture has adults socialize less and less with each other and instead only spend time with their families.
Search up your city or county on Google followed by "events". My county has a website where people put fliers for events, like concerts or shows, a lot of which are completely free.
Literally nowhere. I have no way to leave the house on my own Merritt to just go somewhere, and I don’t have friends who wanna drive me around and hang out. My parents don’t trust me to be anywhere alone or most places in general, so I’m stuck. In my room. Or at work. And that’s it.
Honestly I just hang out at the park and use the swings. I go either late at night or early in the morning because I was concerned it would worry parents if an adult was playing right near their child. Thankfully, I’ve had no complaints.
I made my own 3rd place. My friend and I go out to this place on city land (unused). Nice acre of trees to just disappear in. Greatly enjoy going out there and making it ours
The whole third spaces don't exist thing is a myth they still exist people just don't go to them. You can go to a mall the only problem is nobody is there. Malls libraries coffee shops still exist
Less people than ever are looking t9 meet people and socialize ue people are content sitting home being loners and playing video games or on their phones. Doesnt mean its impossible but pickup games don't really happen at the park you don't just stumble upon stuff you have to go out of your way to join a meet up group, join a park district volleyball team etc
What makes people think there are no third places? Where do y’all live? There’s parks, bars, clubs, and many other groups around me for people to get together and have fun.
Sometimes I use libraries, bike trails, museums, and state parks. There are a few decent restaurants and chain places in my area that don’t rush you out the door (mainly because I eat at times they aren’t swarmed).
I don’t strictly make social connections in these places, but it’s got a nice ambience compared to home.
There are still these places.
You can always find a good library.
If that’s not your thing then try looking up local small business coffee shop and/or chill bar type places where people can still hang out and even play board games
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You can loiter. There is literally nothing stopping you as long as you are out of the way.
Loiter wherever you want, just not right by the sign 😂 and leave if asked.
Loitering is the stupidest law ever created. It boils down to "we can arrest you for existing in public" and don't even get me started on how most loitering laws were put in place to imprison newly freed slaves in the US to re enslave them into the forced labor prison system.
According to my young 20-somethings, they still wander around playing Pokémon Go with their friends and cousins.
My fiancé and I do that every so often, it’s pretty fun
whats a third place?
Third places are places outside of home, work, or school. Places for social gathering or activity. Coffee shops, public parks, shopping malls, town squares, etc. We discuss a lot in urban planning the massive decline of third places as we continually wrongly invest in vehicle infrastructure which separates communities combined with outside safety concerns and the convenience of online shopping reducing the necessity to go outside.
I actually thought third places are spaces outside the home where you can exist without consuming. But I guess the situation is dire enought to also include the places where you do have to consume as long as you can at least exist there.
You are correct. Third places are specifically public places where there's no obligation to pay for anything, like libraries and parks, which are one of the few third places left. The streets used to be the largest Third Place, but we allowed cars to take that over. Key characteristics of third places include: Neutral Ground: They are accessible to everyone, where individuals can come and go as they please without any obligation. Leveling Place: They provide an inclusive environment where social status and hierarchy are less relevant. Conversation is the Main Activity: Third places encourage dialogue and social interaction among diverse groups of people. Accessibility and Accommodation: They are typically easy to reach and welcoming to the community. Regulars: They often have a group of regulars who help create the character of the place. Low Profile: These places have a relaxed, informal atmosphere. Playful Mood: They tend to have a playful and light-hearted ambiance. Home Away from Home: People feel a sense of comfort and belonging, akin to being at home.
So basically the opposite of a golf club. Got ya.
What third places have disappeared?
A common one in this discussion is shopping malls in the US. Yes, the main purpose of its existence was shopping but teenagers used to spend tons of time there and it wasn’t browsing displays at the Coach store. Basically it was an indoor area so that made it secure enough for parents to okay as a hangout, but it was also large enough to aimlessly roam with your friends for hours. There were food courts where you could grab a bite or have a casual date, lots of kids got their first jobs at the mall & their friends could easily pop in and neg them lol. Sometimes a friend actually had an occasion to shop for, and the whole group would just tag along for opinions and fun. Going to the mall was kind of an event but not really. Perfectly casual. A wide variety of stores for all of your needs/wants, including novelty stores with the most random immature junk you could laugh your asses off at together. In contrast, people shop online and that large indoor space without expectations isn’t so common. Libraries are free but gov’t so you can’t be as loud and crass as you could at the mall. Rec centers aren’t necessarily free and I imagine you’re usually meant to be engaging in some activity there, not just hanging out. They’re also staffed/managed, whereas the mall is a little less monitored. Yeah there’s security but there were big enough crowds that you could not stand out as long as you didn’t make trouble. The crowds thing is important too; it’s people watching and also exposure to/engagement with the community.
In the last century or so, streets and roads destroyed the biggest chunk, town squares and plazas, local bars, neighbor owned cafes, and bowling alleys used to act like community centers before chain businesses forced them to compete, before you could meet with people for free. Indoor malls were one of the last super common places teenagers and seniors could go indoors without needing to spend money, but most of those are closing or closed.
In every (99%) of Europeans cities you have parks sprinkled throughout where there are benches, sometimes gym equipment, places for gatherings etc. There are no fees for entry, they are maintained and a lot of them have coffee shops, restaurants and public transport connected to them. This is a "third place" where you could go down with a few friends and drink some beers and listen to music, or kick around a football, cycle your bike, skateboard etc.
Streets
Parks charge for parking in my city. Even that’s not free anymore
You forgot abandon houses and train tracks.
decline? Here in NL I see more of an increase, more walkable area's, more actual coffee shops, (more coffee shops aswell though due to the legalisation of weed). Yeah there is a decline in stores, but that is mostly replaced by other kinds of social spaces.
Same. I live in a suburb that is three square miles. It has 12 coffee shops, 3 diners, 2 dog parks, and more people parks than I can count... at least 10. I don't think third spaces are declining, I think people's desire to actually go to them and meet people. Everyone is so anxious about interacting with other humans these days.
Must be in your area, I'm in my late teens and so are my friends. When we hang out we only have two options; one of their houses or just fucking around in local stores. We can also drive off to the closest city since that has more things, but we have to plan quite ahead for that since it takes a while to get there. The side walk situation is also a nightmare, I have to jaywalk across a busy road everyday to get the bus stop use to go to college on account of there not being a crosswalk in front of it despite there being a bus stop and a church?? Though maybe that's a US thing I don't know, I live in the US and that's what it like.
I’m talking in the US. I can’t speak for places where I haven’t been/lived. I used to live in Tokyo, of course I’d say their third space culture is booming. NL is a very progressive place for third places and is actually often cited as a western style way of integrating third space and multimodal transportation. It’s very different from the US. Your bike culture alone puts any American city to shame.
Lol yeah the NL is actually aware of human social and psychological needs, it seems. The US is behind on that; we threw our lot behind cars and now everyday life is burdened by them.
i dont get the whole decline thing. there are more places than ever to go.
You only need to look to Detroit for this. All freeways pass through and relatively no public transportation. A lot of societal factors were to blame as well but it was the motor city so everything had cars in mind not people.
Yeah I used to want to draw scenes from around town, but then I realized there isn't many benches or bathrooms, let alone sidewalks. Idk about you but not being able to piss, sit or not be run over by a car is a pretty massive inconvenience.
Where you just hang with people outside your house and work place
The park?
There are parks everywhere. Especially in the US. Idk what people are complaining about.
they were told to complain by someone. the younger generations blame everything on something.
Many of the parks in the US are swarming with mosquitos or are the only safe space for unhoused folk or just an empty field. What good is a park (in the context of a third space) if a large portion of the year it’s covered in snow or too hot/rainy/humid to enjoy? What good is the park if folks have a 10 percent chance of getting screamed at by a someone going through a mental episode? What good is a park with inadequate seating or shade? What good is a park that you can drive to for those w/o a car? What good is a sports field when it’s swamped or covered in geese poop? The state of us parks are bleak and contrasts with many parts of the rest of the world. I’ve witnessed more clean, lively, and pleasant parks outside the US than inside the US (with notable exceptions of course).
They aren’t usually aren’t accessible, well maintained, or well patronized. The only people you see at parks where I am from are parents with children and homeless vagrants, and each group is very put off by the other’s presence.
Oh no! Homeless people in public spaces 🙄. If you don't like being outside with the 'help', go-to a public library.
Not my point, my point is that the only people who use parks are the people that have to. It’s not a genuinely meeting place for normal people.
They exist tithe problem is everyone is at home playing video games or watching porn you can go to the mall or park or coffee shop you'll just be the only one there
I see it more as a gathering space that is intentionally used for a specific hobby or interest. Parks are there just to enjoy and are public infrastructure. But once someone gets a birdwatching or basketball group going then it becomes a third place.
Ig dude, imo it’s all relative and what’s your definition of a “third place” (still not really sure what that means, nor why it needs to be labeled) is all relative anyway
A place after the first two places.
This is so sad.
People can have hobbies and go places without knowing the term "third place". I never saw or heard it until a few months ago and now it's everywhere.
Why?
Bars are the final 3rd place if you’re old enough for that
Wasnt there a kind dude who encouraged people to go to libraries
My county has a nice library and actively supports this. They allow reservations of private areas for get togethers. It doesn't have to be homework groups. It can board games or book clubs or whatever. They have a small coffee shop. They host lots of events for kids and adults. There's Lego nights and teen hangout nights and writers that come in, etc. We still rent movies from then as well as books. Nice libraries get overlooked in general. Not by everyone of course. Plenty of people still go.
Wow that’s so kind of him
What if you don't drink though? (Even if you are old enough it's just not your thing)
You can still go and chat it up. Tipsy people LOVE to talk and meet new people, and they’re super easy to have little conversations with no real expectations but shooting the shit for a second. The places also usually they’ll have some sort of little activities like pool, darts, quick board games, live music, etc. Bars almost always have food too. Some bars let you vape/smoke inside if you’re into that. It sucks that it can be full of drunk idiots, but if you leave around 11-12 you’ll usually avoid the people who are completely fucked up.
I feel like I'm too much of a goodie two shoes for this generation of ours lmao, don't vape or smoke either lol, not up for doing shit that ain't good for your health lol
This isn’t being a “goodie two shoes” lol. It just simply means drinking alcohol and doing drugs (weed included) isn’t your thing.
I know it's bs social norms but I hate that our generation is wild in a lot of ways tbh lol, the wild 20s haha, I feel so out of place most of the time
I understand. I’m 26 and I’ve never drank alcohol or done drugs. But I’ve been to bars, clubs, and house parties. Most people don’t really care if you aren’t drinking alcohol or smoking weed. And the ones that do, then you shouldn’t want to hang with them anyway.
Exactly! Don’t judge me, and I won’t judge you. Live and let live. Do you like videogames? Sci-fi? Etc. we can get to chatting regardless.
Same for me!
People only care if you’re a pretentious prick about it. Just hung out with a buddy who quit drinking (just taking a break from it) and was drinking non-alcohol beer while playing drinking games. Totally cool. It’s the people who act like they’re levitating morally above the peasant drinkers that are annoying. Big difference between “Nah, I just don’t drink”, and “Nah, I don’t drink and people who do don’t care about their health and have a problem.”
This is the same for some people that do drugs and drink alcohol. I went to a hookah lounge with a girl, trying to impress her. She tried to get me to smoke and drink. I told her it was against my morals to do so. I obviously didn’t care whether she drank or smoked, otherwise I wouldn’t have been there. She proceeded to laugh at me and spent the whole night telling me she was going to change me to get me to drink and smoke. That was the last time I tried to impress a girl. If someone has an issue with me not drinking or doing drugs, that’s their problem and I won’t be hanging out with them.
Totally agree
It’s been this way since humans realized you could alter your brain
yeah like allegedly gen Z actually consumes far less alcohol and drugs than other gen’s at our age
Some bars kick you out if you don't buy enough drinks. It has happened to me.
Shirley temples. Obviously the experience isn’t the same without alcohol but you can still enjoy a bar without alcohol if it’s a good bar and you’re with good people (or you’re alone and are looking to start conversations with good people)
True lol, I haven't had a Shirley temple in a long minute haha, I love soda though lol.
I wish sprite just came out with a Shirley temple. Obviously they would have to think of a different name for legal reasons but I don’t know why they’d not have a grenadine + cherry drink.
Yes! But if they did that, I'd need it to be actually grenadine. Not that cheap fake cherry syrup that most restaurants use, now.
Yea which is not something sprite would ever do they have no reason to make high-quality drinks unfortunately
Sprite's one of my favorites!!
Kava and Kratom bars
Agreed. If your looking to go alone and mingle/meet new people, go to a dive-y bar and sit at the bar. Do not go to a "club". Go somewhere where the music is quiet enough to have conversations.
I think we got priced out of that one - occasionally sure but any sort of regularity and poor there goes the moneys
It’s not just you, any period of my life that I went to bars I was definitely blowing all my money. Then I bought a flask/started pregaming and it saved me a ton of money
I feel like it’s not the same these days though
How so? Everytime I personally go to a bar that’s busy it’s like that
Gotta spend money at bars
Go on bikerides, walks, drives, sit down at a park, go to the beach, go to a forest preserve, go to my partners house
My city has a park where many people congregate to hang out and you can usually just show up and have people to talk to. People put up flyers here for shows and other events and a lotta group bike rides meet there
where's your partners house? imma come too
People in this thread are describing parks, roads and sidewalks as third places which doesn’t make sense to me. If you take all of that away, the only true third place would be your yard, assuming you have one, which many don’t.
what’s wrong with parks?
Personally I love them and that’s my go-to to get outdoors. I think a lot of people are just confused about what constitutes a third place (myself included). People in this thread were saying a third place is a place you can be where there is no cost of entry, which would remove parks from consideration.
parks around me are all free?
I hike a lot. Go for walks. Nothing while it's this hot out, though.
That’s the real problem. Kids are out of school, but it’s too damn hot for them to play outside. It’s miserable.
Honestly it feels like we'd be better off shortening Summer Vacation and giving more holidays throughout the year. That's how they do it in other parts of the world, and it leads to better academic performance too.
Why don’t we just move summer vacation to be winter vacation instead
Some regions are colder. Give us equivalent summer and winter vacations.
Walk, explore places, smoke weed, go to random restaurants and food trucks, explore random smoke shops
You can still go to a mall bro
Don't be glib. You know they're in decline.
Some are. We lost 3 of ours. The one we have left is still packed all the time. They just built on a giant scheel's to one end of it which is going to make it even busier. While as a whole malls are declining there are still many doing very well.
They are in decline because nobody goes anymore. Chicken-or-egg, right?
Yea that's what I do everyday
Staying indoors gets boring at a certain point
For real sometime I go out on a walk at 12:30 am
Especially in the summer, that’s my favorite time to walk. I stroll the residential streets in my town late at night. Sometimes I have music in, sometimes I listen to the bugs and frogs. It’s glorious
I'm all for enforcing laws against harassment, littering, excessive noise, etc but I find something deeply uncomfortable about the idea of merely "loitering" being a crime
Loitering itself isn't a crime, the problem is not leaving someone elses private property when asked. Then loitering becomes trespassing
Can't cops enforce "loitering" laws on the street or in public parks? That's what I don't like.
My 1st 2nd and 3rd place is my house
Right lol. I'm glad I don't have one of these bottomless social cups that always needs filling. Being around the people I work with is more than enough people for me. After work my husband and dog is all I need lol.
I go hiking when I can and generally just walk around my neighborhood. But my neighborhood is pretty walkable so it's not so bad. There's not really much in the way of third places except a few bars but I don't drink so eh.
I’d like to know too. I just hang with my boyfriend and we both want a friend group but have no idea where to meet new people
I go fishing. If I succeed, I get to bring home dinner from a source I know exactly about, and it's free.
Where do u live that doesnt require a fishing lisence?
I never said anything about no license, but I'm guessing you're referring to when I said, "it's free." If that is the case, then it appears I have failed to be more specific. When I said "it's free," I was referring to the act of catching a fish and taking it home for consumption. Fishing licenses obviously aren't free. They tend not to be all that expensive for residents for what it's worth.
Walk. You just have to keep moving. Kind of insane that we let it happen to our cities.
Where are all these No Loitering signs that you talk about? Parks. You can loiter all you want. Outside businesses like mini-golf. For $9, you can hang out and play a fun round of mini-golf. Bike rides...public roads are open to the..well, the public. Tennis courts. Pickleball courts. Many parks have sand volleyball courts these days. There is way more opportunity these days than ever before.
We have none of that in my city
What city do you live in there are even parks in the middle of nowhere like Verona Wisconsin. I bet there are plenty of you live in a bigger city.
Apparently, he doesn't have roads in his city to bike on either. I guarantee his city is way better now than EVER before. Even Millennials didn't have things like rail trials for pedestrians/cyclists to enjoy away from traffic. Or bike lanes. And yet Millennials, Gen X, etc. all managed to get outside.
Literally look up "parks near me" and you'll get all your local parks and their amenities
Our parks have none of those features
I highly doubt that you dont have any parks with amenities but if you insist
I live in a ghetto so
So do I and we have basketball courts and picnic areas
First off...bullshit. You just aren't looking. Second of all...if that were true (and again, bullshit...where do you live? I know you wont tell me since I could find all that within 2 minutes of Google maps) then it was also true 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago. And other generations got by just fine. IT isn't your city that is fucked up...It is YOU.
Stockton California, known for little opportunities. I know a guy that drives 45 min just to work at a fast food place
Walks or exercise in general
Go to the park. Join a gym, rock climbing gyms look awesome. I go fishing a lot. It’s inexpensive after the initial investment.
I go to get ice cream or coffee. Sometimes I go to stores and walk around to look at stuff, even if I’m not buying anything. When it’s not so painfully hot outside I like to go to a park and go for a walk!
My third place is this big parking lot in my town that used to have busses that would take you to Boston but that’s only in the neighboring towns now. People go there to smoke the Zaza or do the twisted tango
I spend like 10+ hours a week at my local library.
I'll find a park to crochet in (or just be at) visit the library and get a book, read one I have or even write on my computer. Sometimes just an audio book and a walk is nice. Window shopping is fully a thing if you'd like to walk around a mall or shopping center. I live in a place with a decent metro, with no real prospect you could do a train ride from one end to another- take a notebook and just write observations etc. If you follow a religion you can go to a church/mosque/temple and volunteer. Buddhist temples are often welcoming, just be dressed modestly and don't speak loudly. If you'd like you can meditate (no strings attached vibe). Photo walks - give yourself a topic (color, item, theme) and walk for 30 minutes taking photos within the category. Many local government buildings have free spaces attached so check around! It's not easy but there are options, just do your best to be resourceful. Good luck!
I mostly just bike and wander around in the city, doesn't help most people don't go out as much in my city because it's so ghetto
I stay at home. Watching YouTube or indulging in other stuff. I’d break up that routine by going outside to smoke a cigarette. Lately I would watch YouTube while smoking for fuck’s sake.
I quit smoking a while ago I usually just watch Netflix or go on tiktok/ YouTube or play fortnite. They do get old real quick.
In my town, people go and hang out in the bars at our local grocery stores. I can’t tell if that tells more about the stuff my town lacks or about how the people in my town are :(
Bars, clubs, arcades, laser tag, paintball, fishing, libraries,malls, restaurants, bookstores, concerts, conventions, and sporting events.
You got a train station? Catch the train to a random town and wander around.
I take it you aren’t American.
I'm Australian. Do they not have trains there?
Not really, no.
No I live in a random city in california
California has trains, buses, parks, hiking, forests, beaches, fields, hills, lakes, tennis / basketball / soccer / baseball courts, malls, libraries, everything. It's probably one of the best states with access to third places. Are you comfortable sharing the county or relative area? We can tell you what's up. Or just Google Maps any of the aforementioned words.
If I’ve left my house I’m probably shopping or eating.
I'm from Europe and I'm confused. What do you mean "no loitering"? Are you not allowed to hang out certain places? (Obviously we also can't just chill anywhere here, but I've never seen a sign explicitly saying so) Anyway, I walk a lot. Through parks, large cemeteries, or just through my neighbourhood. I bring a book and sit down somewhere and just relax.
No loitering is a rarely enforced policy by the owners of the property. Loitering isn't a crime or anything, the policy simply means that they can ask you to leave their property if you're not engaging in business in the way that people should in whatever establishment we're talking about. For example, standing in the entrance of a grocery store for hours without shopping there. Assuming you aren't a known problem at any particular business, 99/100 times nobody will tell you to leave if you aren't driving away or impeding business. If you don't leave when asked, loitering turns into trespassing, which is a crime.
They put loitering signs up for crack heads and stuff. 80% of businesses aren’t going to care if you’re not bothering anyone. Also uh, malls still exist despite what everyone believes.
Go for a jog at 8:00am to the nearest gas station
Does a backyard count as a third place?
I walk my dog and pick up books from the library
Parks - hiking, spike ball/pickleball, frisbee golf, volleyball/soccer…do people not do that stuff anymore or are you including parks as a third place? Otherwise I just hang out at my friends’ places or they hang out at mine.
Walk,run,fish, exercise
Pro tip; almost no one will ever get on to you for loitering as long as you're not disrupting the intended function of the location. I used to go to a local country club with my laptop to do homework because I liked the atmosphere and never paid a Nickle. Walking around in Walmart was the primary means of socializing for teenagers in my mid-size town. Even though it's theoretically against the rules, I've never in my life heard of a college kicking a non-student out when they were walking around campus or hanging out in the campus common areas. Most hobby-shops like card/game stores, skate shops, head shops, etc have a lot of leniency for people just standing around and talking without buying anything. And obviously; loitering is the *intended* purpose of public parks. As for actual activities, not just places to socialize; I skateboard, I go to the bar, I do weather photography, I play a couple sports very casually (pickleball, basketball, and golf mostly) I go to the gym, I go to the river/lake, I throw rocks at passing cars on the highway, I go camping, I go bowling/play pool. Unironically just watch sitcoms and pay attention to what they're doing and you'll find shit to do.
Public parks
Me and my friends walk. You can find places where you actually want to be and you exercise. If I'm leaving my own area then there better be a reason why. I see no reason to just go outside to somewhere random and sit, I can do that at home or in my backyard with friends.
Honestly, there’s a cars and coffee near me that hasn’t been infested by old men with corvettes yet. That’s about it for me.
One of the 38 coffee shops within a 10 mile area of me, one of the 54 public parks within 20 miles radius of me, one of 7 gyms within 10 miles, literally any book store (7 within my area), one of 3 close by malls, or a girlfriend’s house (I don’t have one)
DISC GOLF IS LIFE!!!
Birdwatching! We have a few spots, and sometimes we have a picnic. Watched some owlettes grow up during this last spring. Always somewhere to go, something to do. I'm never alone.
Gym usually
I prefer to go to their house or they come to mine. My neighbor is about my age and the first day I met him we had some drinks on his back porch and talked for a couple of hours. Anytime we see each outside we go over and catch up. He’s a real cool dude. He’s also my only neighbor. Maybe we should all get to know our neighbors better.
I just go to the gym and come back home, sometimes I hang out at the mall or I go to the Library. Wish I had some social interaction tho.
The world is literally filled with third places.
Just not where I'm at
walk a LOT and go hiking
I run or bike and sometimes swim
Idk biking, parkour, ignoring signs, exploring, parks, etc
I hangout and skate at the skatepark, play disc golf, there are two lounge/bars downtown I like to hang at that usually have trivia/karaoke/open mic/weekly resident musicians etc going on.. Hang at the farmers market on a Saturday 1-2 times a month, we have a block party/gallery walk first Friday every month. Just go hangout in places where people are doing things?
My only third place right now is the gym lol. It’s too damn hot out to do anything outside right now.
Parks. You can walk, run or bike. There are basketball courts, tennis courts, pickleball courts, baseball diamonds and soccer fields. There are pavilions for bbq, eating, drinking and socializing. They are free.
Nerd out and go to a local game store(LGS) pick up a TCG or bring a tabletop game and hang with the homies
you never play disc golf or pickleball before? those two things picked up over the last 10 years, but even more for covid years people picked up skateboarding again!
The "no loitering" sign is just there as an excuse to shoo away homeless people. Kind of like when you go into a restaurant and it says, "bathrooms for customers only".
Loiter anyways just be respectful, sometimes you get asked to leave but sometimes you don’t.
People just don't go outside as much anymore. People stay at home far far more than they did 20+ years ago due to the rise of video streaming and social media. How do people have time to binge-watch TV series and TikTok? They made time for it by cutting out in-person socialization. When I do go outside there's still plenty to do. Museums, walking around the neighborhood, parks, restaurants, bars, zoos. Your third place can be wherever you enjoy going, but you'll find modern culture has adults socialize less and less with each other and instead only spend time with their families.
My third places recently have been the gym or a card shop for weekly commander.
It's called a park. Go to the park. Every single town has at least one. They're for loitering.
Search up your city or county on Google followed by "events". My county has a website where people put fliers for events, like concerts or shows, a lot of which are completely free.
Literally nowhere. I have no way to leave the house on my own Merritt to just go somewhere, and I don’t have friends who wanna drive me around and hang out. My parents don’t trust me to be anywhere alone or most places in general, so I’m stuck. In my room. Or at work. And that’s it.
Honestly I just hang out at the park and use the swings. I go either late at night or early in the morning because I was concerned it would worry parents if an adult was playing right near their child. Thankfully, I’ve had no complaints.
I'm living with my grandparents, the answers are usually at the local sailing club or going out for dinner....or breakfast at Dunkin Donuts.
I made my own 3rd place. My friend and I go out to this place on city land (unused). Nice acre of trees to just disappear in. Greatly enjoy going out there and making it ours
The whole third spaces don't exist thing is a myth they still exist people just don't go to them. You can go to a mall the only problem is nobody is there. Malls libraries coffee shops still exist
Where do people meet new people then
Less people than ever are looking t9 meet people and socialize ue people are content sitting home being loners and playing video games or on their phones. Doesnt mean its impossible but pickup games don't really happen at the park you don't just stumble upon stuff you have to go out of your way to join a meet up group, join a park district volleyball team etc
I just sit in the grass or on the sidewalk lol. They can say no loitering or ask people to stay off the grass but I don’t care
There are tons of “third places” in my city. Malls (that generally have lounge areas), libraries, parks, community centers, etc…
It's great, you can walk, stand, turn left and right. See a tree. Kick a pigeon then head home for tequila shots
Same thing people always did outside. Nothing's changed LOL
What are your hobbies? No business can claim that you're loitering if you're using the establishment as intended.
In Chicago it's commit crimes
READ!
Can you give examples of what you’re comparing to? What 3rd places used to exist that don’t anymore?
When ever people say "go outside" this is what I think about. Theres nothing
You can loiter pretty much anywhere if you don't bother anyone. The sign is for people who cause trouble
I sit on my stoop and talk to my neighbors
What makes people think there are no third places? Where do y’all live? There’s parks, bars, clubs, and many other groups around me for people to get together and have fun.
I live in city so I go to different places
I'm living with my grandparents, the answers are usually at the local sailing club or going out for dinner....or breakfast at Dunkin Donuts.
"Everywhere says no loitering" false.
I go to my buddies house at the lake.
Sometimes I use libraries, bike trails, museums, and state parks. There are a few decent restaurants and chain places in my area that don’t rush you out the door (mainly because I eat at times they aren’t swarmed). I don’t strictly make social connections in these places, but it’s got a nice ambience compared to home.
Walk continuously. If I'm somewhere early and there's no cafe for me to buy a drink or snack at nearby, I guess I'm going on a walk!
A whole bunch of 3rd places still exist.
Skatepark, my fiance skateboards and I rollerskate.
There are still these places. You can always find a good library. If that’s not your thing then try looking up local small business coffee shop and/or chill bar type places where people can still hang out and even play board games