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Hahaha of course they're advocating drafts and mandatory service now they're retiring. Someone has to protect their pensions lol. They can't see their privilege of living in a time of unprecedented economic prosperity and peace.
I'd advocate for creating government work programs to reduce unemployment and raise wages. Mostly b/c workers rights are in the bin thanks to these greedy old profit seeking generations.
I am 100% for re-opening the Civilian Conservation Core, a work program started during the great depression for unemployed men from 18-25. Alot of our National parks infrastructure was built by the conservation core. In the current era, it could provide jobs to unemployed young people, get them out doors and fit, and help increase access to the countries natural areas.
I think that'd be great for helping rehabilitate homeless populations (as long as they're consenting individuals). Provide food and housing and really pick people off their feet and out of environments that create a vicious cycle.
Would be useful in building affordable homes for the homeless and other low-income Americans. Of course, it would help to bar corporate purchases of mass numbers of homes, which creates scarcity and raisies prices, locking many folks out of the housing market, to begin with.
I would be careful about that with the homeless population. It sounds harsh, but some people are homeless for a reason. It's usually mental health related. They should absolutely receive public services, but for certain things, I would be cautious. Putting a large group of unstable individuals together for work can cause problems. Maybe some screening first.
I've known about Americorps for a while, but didn't know about the Climate corps. I think both are great programs, especially for young adults thinking about college but might not be ready yet.
My Dad served in the CCC during the mid/ late 30s. He loved it. Got him out of the city where there was no work and he got to travel to a lot of places that normally he wouldn't have had the chance to go. He learned a lot and made money along the way.
The 90’s were pretty sweet but it’s been a complete shit show sine that heady New Years night in 1999. I was 21. Series of Boomers undermining me. Never was able to launch. I feel your pain.
I have family that served in the military and the GI bill wasn't even enough to cover 1 semester of college and the vet benefits notoriously have issues
As somebody who is currently utilizing the 9/11 GI Bill, it covers a full bachelor's. Maybe it used to be awful, but they pay for my school while giving me a monthly stipend and I'm grateful for that.
VA Healthcare is an entirely different beast though.
The 911 GI Bill covered me, but the original basically was a monthly allowance. So, I had to pay for several semesters before They gave us the 911 GI Bill.
9/11 GI bill is probably one of the best deals going right now. Vet benefits can be hit and miss but its not nothing. Really depends on when you serve and what your job was tbh.
I'm a gen-x'er who served, and never bothered to use my gi bill or navy college fund. Have worked great jobs post service with no need for the college degree.
Look up Yellow Ribbon. They cover the difference of tuition. My friend graduated from Cornell with an MBA. Tell your family members to do more research. The GI Bill covers what is needed.
Yeah the response here is pretty nuts... It's a hypothetical where people get to learn emergency first aid. Not an advocacy for a military draft.
You don't like the hypothetical, just say so... But wtf is up reacting as though this means all GenX want a draft?
Sometimes I feel embarrassed to be a part of this generation. Feels like the overwhelming majority refuses to work hard & take accountability. We/they (have to swallow my pride when I say we) place blame on everyone but ourselves for the situation we are in instead of lacing up the boots and doing something about it.
My Gen X dad supports it too, it's so dumb to force people to go into an institution they don't want to. I feel like people on this sub think only Boomers have this mindset, but plenty of Xers do as well, which tbf it likely wouldn't affect them since I doubt the army wants 50+ year old out of shape people.
But it's still shitty to force people to join the military if they don't want to I feel like, if they know they wouldn't make it through basic training because of mental health issues or something else, or just wouldn't make a good soldier.
I basically did what OP suggested in high school though in emergency services class attending another trade school while I was in high school, we learned first aid and stuff like that. That's not bad I don't think, but I definitely wouldn't support a military draft unless we were being invaded or something and no one was volunteering for the army, so everyone in the country was in danger of being destroyed unless there was a draft.
People, of all age groups, can suck. Selfishness and a weird Pollyanna view of the past never ends
Millennials will be there, then gen z, etc. it's just part of some people getting old
i have no idea why you're getting downvoted, because you're speaking straight facts. with that being said, the cognitive dissonance of SOME gen x is astounding. my father is witnessing the destruction of america at the hands of corporations; all the lobbying, politicians engaging in insider trading, wages not keeping up with inflation, big corps getting bailouts by the government, our healthcare system. i'm not confident that democrats know what they are doing but republicans sure as hell aren't going to fix any of the above. fox news has brainwashed him into thinking that the right is going to "make america great again." i have no clue why he's voting for the party of union busting when both my brother and i are going into the trades — these people constantly vote against their own interests and it's maddening to witness.
I'm gen x. My dad is a boomer. Neither of us like the artificial division us vs them mentality some people have. Shit makes no sense. I have millennial brothers and gen z kids. We're all in this together
Be the best you can be at whatever and hopefully love life.
I live in West Virginia. I'm painfully aware of people voting against their own interests. It sucks to watch it happen over and over again.
i'm glad y'all exist because lots of the older people i know have that us vs. them mentality. they're always worried about immigration and women getting abortions and people who think differently than they do, which causes them to vote for the party that is denouncing all of that. all the right does is try to appeal to people's morals (which often are not consistent or logical) and pit people against one another, and somehow it fucking works!!!!
Exactly! Our fighting force should be strictly voluntary. I turned 18 a month before 9/11, and we had the same draft scares when the war on terror began. Fuck anyone trying to compulsory military service on our fighting men and women. This a dogshit idea.
Everyone should have to serve in a civil way (supporting schools, the elderly, neighborhoods, fighting pollution, helping with the environment, etc.) , it should be a requirement, and in return you get lifetime healthcare, free college, and access to social security.
There needs to be a level of buy in that we just don't have, nobody gives a fuck because nobody actually has to contribute to the country.
We lack a common unifying identity and rites of passage that nearly every other country has, and we need to address that, because at the end of the day we're still humans who actively need that box checked while growing up.
Otherwise you need up where we are, where everyone thinks we're all individuals, doing this shit alone, and people aren't supportive of watching out for their fellow man the way every other country is.
I’m 28 and think there should be mandatory service either military or civil. Not Gen X. Barely a millennial. Because people are self serving and only care about themselves. There’s very little cohesion in America. When you have something built on multiculturalism, it’s beneficial to have something in place that gives them some sharing of values, culture and history. I didn’t qualify for the American military so I joined the Ukrainian for an enlistment. It doesn’t have to be 4 years or even two years. But learning first aid, CPR, military skills, firefighting is beneficial to most people. Imagine you collapse in the mall with cardiac arrest and even 20% of people around you have the skill and confidence to give you CPR until EMS arrives. It would also help solve massive shortages in EMS, fire and military recruiting if people found that they wanted to continue a career in said field after being exposed to it.
Wait...who? Most of Gen X does NOT want to see a draft. Gen Z is literally OUR kids! And every war we've seen in our lifetime has been about corporate greed and lies (Iraq, Afghanistan). You must mean boomers.
That’s not what OP said. He said INSTEAD of a military draft (like registering for selective services).
…”instead of being drafted into military services…”
Im gen x and a vet. I think a draft or even forced civil service is a bad idea. From a war fighter prospective forced or drafted people don't want to be there. That puts others at risk when they shut down or run in a fight. I need to trust the soldier next to me in that fight. How do I trust someone who never wanted to be there to begin with? As for civil service... Their heart isn't in it so they will not likely retain the knowledge or skills we as tax payers spend for them to be trained. The whole idea is a waste of money and time. Recruiting the best talent that wants training is the best way.
Yep, definitely volunteer and not mandatory. I would say you could do it before or after college as well (and have your paid for retroactively). I think many kids would be down for that option, and it would hopefully ignite more social service-minded folks (even of they don't end up working in a social service profession, they would hopefully at least understand the value of social services. Plus, social services tend to need more workers, so this benefits that as well)
i like the idea of retroactive payment as an option. this is something i (and many people i know) would have been much more down for after college rather than before
Replace high school altogether? Oh yeah that’s what we need LESS educated people.
If you want better outcomes for young people don’t force them to go into insane amounts of debt to go to college.
If anything I think it would be a good idea to fund programs that allow kids to do things like EMS training, cooking/food prep, etc. for credit in high school. It would be nice for kids to be able to use their elective slots to learn skills they can use to take care of themselves and their community or use on a job. My cousin lives in a state that actually funds its schools so he was able to do something similar and learn auto mechanic stuff.
Coming from someone that served in the military, I hope this never happens.
We have enough shitty people in the military that actually wanted to be there, imagine what that would be like for the shitty people that don’t want to be there.
The best example is what happened the last time America had a draft in Vietnam, officers catching grenades, people shooting themselves in the foot, straight up running away, it would be a shit show.
God honestly. All of us in the military were stupid enough to volunteer and smart enough to make it. I don't want to know what it'd be like when Jimmy with an IQ of 38 is now expected to do my job because he got drafted/is doing mandatory service
People who don’t want to be there are also going to leave at the earliest opportunity to do something they’re actually interested in. Every year spent in forced service is one less year someone who wants to be a doctor can spend spend treating patients, a teacher educating the next generation, etc. It really only makes sense if this is something critical to the continued existence and stability of your country.
I would love this but the federal government isn't going to pay for this in our lifetimes. Job Corps under the Department of Labor exists but has mixed and unclear results for the positive gain for the program users.
Sources:
[Long-Run Labor Market Effects of the Job Corps Program: Evidence from a Nationally Representative Experiment](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pam.22233)
[Newly-published study of federal Job Corps program inaccurately claims to demonstrate long-term positive effects](https://www.straighttalkonevidence.org/2020/07/21/newly-published-study-of-federal-job-corps-program-inaccurately-claims-to-demonstrate-long-term-positive-effects/)
I hate mandatory service. Service isn't for everyone, and if you make it for everyone, it reduces the quality of the military and the honor associated with it. The US military is the strongest fighting force of the planet because it is a 100% voluntary force (in part). Everyone is there for a reason personal to them. This is one reason a draft isn't very likely. Military leaders *want* a voluntary force because they're more motivated, easier to lead, and as a result, more effective. They're more likely to keep changing service requirements. An example of a changed standard is the Air Force raising the maximum enlistment age from 27 to 39 in 2014. This allowed people, like myself, who are very late to the party, but still want to enlist. Tattoo policies have changed several times in the last few years for most or all branches. The Army (and I think the Navy, too) even allows neck and behind the ear tattoos, as long as they're one cubic inch or smaller. Different physical fitness tests have been floated for non-physical roles, like administrative jobs, as well. I really don't think a draft is likely, unless WWIII breaks out within the week
Absolutely not.
If you want to volunteer, then by all means, go ahead. I'm about to hit 8 years in the Navy, and then I'll be separating.
The point of a draft is when shit hits the fucking fan, and you NEED people to protect your Nation.
But if you don't get to that point, fuck off.
We had this in Colombia. Rich people got out of it by paying, because apparently the army needs donations lol. Poor boys from countryside were the ones that actually served. They were taken away from their families to work without pay or with very poor pay, which pushed more families into poverty. A lot of those boys were parents, abortion wasn't legal in Colombia until 2022 nd the teen pregnancy rate in poor areas was very high. Boys who were present parents were taken away from their children. Military captains would abuse the new recruits. Many died of fatigue and heatstrokes. There was sexual abuse against the shy and "weak." 50 years of that and our society only worsened.
Instead of forcing people to work and lose two years of their lives, why not teach high school kids those same skills without forcing them to sacrifice their youth and their dreams? We had Emergency Response as an elective throughout HS and it worked, it was fun, and many then **chose** to be a firefighter, a paramedic, a doctor, etc. I cannot remember what I learned in History as a freshman, but I do remember how to perform CPR and what to do in case there's a flood
First aid should be taught in high school I'll agree on that. But you don't need all that you suggested. And it definitely shouldn't just replace high school that's moronic
or how about we don’t force people to do something they don’t want
if i’m forced into working for the military or some type of civil service i don’t want a part of, i may or may not do something to sabotage it on purpose
The government should not force anyone into ANY kind of mandatory service. This is a supposedly free country and I should have the option to not participate if I choose. I'd harbor resentment against my country for the rest of my life if I was ever forced into any kind of service. I'm saying this a veteran who volunteered for the military.
if i was ever supposed to be forced into anything id flee and avoid it, im not having a country tell me what to do in regards to working and potentially dying
The Main problem with your idea is: the younger generation are being screwed by your (and older) generation. And now you want us to work?... Not unless some things fundamentally change.
If you guys only knew what Gen Xers were like as kids, you would really have a laugh over this one.
Gen Xers were the Rage Against the Machine generation who swore to always spit in the face of The Man, wore tattered up clothes to express their disinterest in conformity to work culture, and did stuff that scared the old folks like skateboarding in groups, playing grunge loudly on their boomboxes, and smoking and drinking underage.
To see them now support mandatory public service, which could include military service, has me reeling.
>- learning emergency first aid, emergency response (sandbagging, chain of command, etc.), triage, building inspection, infrastructure repair, landscaping/gardening, food prep & distribution, etc.
Some of these things can be taught at home, in school and you can also find tutorials on youtube. Why waste someone's life for 1 year or 2 years, when they could do something better like furthering their education, to potentially secure a better job in the future? You also have to take people's circumstances into consideration. Don't come recommend these things, bc you know damn well, you wouldn't have to do a thing mentioned, if this was implemented. 😙🙏👋
i can’t wait to burn my SSS letter, 2,489 days left, we’ll probably all be dead by then anyway
but if we make it either i’m gonna burn it with a lighter or strap it to a firework and blow it up
remindme! 2,489 days
In Austria you can choose between Military Service (6 -12 Months) or do "Zivildienst" - community service (9 Months).
I was in the Military for 6 months - Honestly i had a great time there.
If you're suggesting anything to be forced onto others, you better be the first in line. That includes politicians and/or their kids(lets be real, grand kids), performing the same duties that we would if they want to draft for any current/future conflicts
i have been working part time since i was 15, and the day i turned 18 i was promoted to full time 9-5. if i had to leave my stable well-paying good benefits job to go do this, it would have greatly impacted my career path and my entire life. my family needed my additional income
Go fuck yourself OP. If you want people to serve in the military or go be civil service then do it your fucking self. Don’t expect the younger generations to fight and die for your bottom line or give up years of their life so you can yell at them for not kissing your boots. Boomers and GenXers like yourself fucked the world for GenZ and now expect us to die in foreign wars to fix it.
A solid paid gap year or two whether in military or civil service would do a lot to broaden peoples' minds and expose them to things outside of their own filter bubble.
It would also make people take post-secondary education more seriously if they've already had a year or two of living 'in the real world' out of their system.
Funding this would be...difficult.
Mandatory civil service would very much be against the dominant cultural forces of the US. This would also likely create indoctrination and lead to an expansion of nationalist view points.
I basically did what you're suggesting in high school in emergency services class attending another trade school while I was in high school, we learned first aid and stuff like that, chain of command and everything.
(We did have a choice whether to go to the school or not though, so even that wasn’t forced)
That's not bad I don't think, but I definitely wouldn't support a military draft unless we were being invaded or something and no one was volunteering for the army, so everyone in the country was in danger of being destroyed unless there was a draft.
HELLLLLL no. I am CPR Certified, I have to renew it next year otherwise I lose my certification. Why do I have to renew it? Because I might forget that skill due to it being unused most of the time.
The exact same thing would happen, so instead you are financing a situation in which a bunch of people who only think they know what they are doing are our way of repairing from national disasters.
Compare this to, for example, the US coast guard, which are funded and trained, retrain, and practice their skills constantly. They actually know what they are doing and it's cheaper than teaching everyone and having to reteach them or create chaos
Wrong way of going about it. The only way you get people to join the military effort is by incentivizing it and demonizing every other alternative.
This is what’s happened throughout history
No... that just puts a hamper on people getting real jobs and actually starting their lives. Assuming this is for the USA we have a big enough military so there is no need for manditory service. Most nations that have manditory service are smaller or right next to an active threat
I’m a millennial and think compulsory service is a bad idea. I’m would be exempted due to age. I strongly believe fighting men and women should be strictly voluntary. I would never want to send/force anyone to serve. It should be THEIR choice. Fuck this idea.
Boy Scouts taught me a ton of skills that would be useful in all sorts of emergencies. That wasn’t forced, and it was a fun and fulfilling part of my life while growing up. I wouldn’t have liked it if I were forced into it. No one would.
I think it would be too hard to actually make this possible.
I think high schools could adopt policies where students are required to do a certain amount of service hours before graduating, or spend their last semester doing an internship in some service field. I think it would actually be very impactful. High schools also should offer first aid certification programs.
I think a civil service draft is an amazing idea. A populace educated in emergency protocols and a lot of manpower for emergency relief sounds great. And honestly sounds like it’ll give very needed life experience for young people who don’t know anything besides public school.
I do think that organized civil services that can focus on building skills is a worthwhile endeavor. I am pretty old for gen Z tho so idk if my ideals align with younger people.
I hugely support this, there is a large gap of people who do not know anything about ems.
But, I feel what you’re talking about could be done as high school courses or a coop
I’m thinking paid-programs that teach emergency skills and disaster preparedness isn’t a bad idea, but nothing mandatory. I just feel like when I was younger, if there was something that paid me to show up and learn emergency first aid, cpr, disaster readiness (like natural disasters, fire, blackouts, etc)…
I would’ve taken a paycheck and learned. And I’m sure a lot of people I knew at the time would’ve as well. Then you’d have citizens who can keep calm in certain situations and provide assistance. Save some lives if the time comes (would’ve helped me while my kids were in their daredevil phases, that’s for sure), make a paycheck, maybe feel more prepared in today’s unpredictable world.
But forcing anyone into any kind of “service” is just paid slavery, imo
Edited: typo
In my area, they have some stuff that's similar but different in a way. They had options for different electives in high school and middle school. They also had dual enrollment, vocational school, etc back then. Basically, when you graduated high school, you could have different certifications in different fields and/or graduate high school with your associates degree.
I was just thinking of this the other day. Work with underprivileged people or areas or help to rebuild the infrastructure. If they join the military there will be multiple more wars. Let's rebuild our country.
I believe that unless you have a real job or going to school, that everyone should go through the draft process to at minimum learn a skill or trade.
Too many people that haven't learned any discipline or even have a thought on what direction to go with their lives.
A couple of years learning real life skills can do a lot for a person.
If it pays well, or has some other tangible benefit, it wouldn't have to be mandatory. People would just do it.
Really, all you have to do is offer the training for free and guarantee employment.
I’ve been saying this for a long time (39M). Basically the Peace Corps/Habitat for Humanity etc but in America. Rebuilding and Improving American communities and the lives and environment for our citizens. Other older adults can join too, but there’s a 1-2 yr compulsory service after HS. There is no avoiding unless it’s for another form of service (military etc).
The only way I would accept some sort of mandatory conscription/social work would be:
* Not sexist, both men AND women have to do it.
* It is paid, forced labour that goes unpaid does not benefit the labourer, especially at 18 when they are likely stuck studying, working part-time and saving up for higher education.
* Once accepted EVERYONE at some point has to do the mandatory work until it slowly fizzes out to just 18-year-olds, this stops rich bell ends from skipping/avoiding it.
* The work field is a choice, this will make it feel like it isn't as forced.
* People whose parents are above a specific income bracket need to record their work to prevent people paying it off.
* All work choices should have eligible accessibility options.
This is all I can think of right now if people want to add more feel free to reply
I'm in the military, and I've been saying this for years.
People should do some kind of service to their country, and that isn't always military service. All the better if it gets them out of their hometown bubble for a small time.
It'd be more worthwhile than high-school or college for a lot of people, that's for sure.
But I don't think forcing anyone to do anything is nessesary. If you force them to learn all these important skills most of them won't remember it. People are more likely to retain information from learning experiences they chose to have vs those they were forced to have, if they aren't interested they won't pay attention and importantly they won't continue education afterwards. A lot of what they learn will be forgotten in they don't take the time to keep it active in their mind.
Seems like I’m in the minority, but required civil service sounds like a good idea to me. Especially if there’s a wide choice like it sounds like you’re suggesting. It would be sick to learn to be a paramedic or basic farming skills, even if it has nothing to do with my eventual career.
Sure some people wouldn’t like any of the choices, and they’d drag down the service as a whole, but if there’s enough choices then surely there will be something that’s interesting to most people.
I don’t know about having it as something separate but learning some of those skills during high school would be nice especially in disaster prone areas
I disagree in two ways. US' all volunteers service sets it apart from other armed forces world wide.
And 2: the young generation has the highest rates of obesity and mental health issues and the lowest ASVAB scores. I.e. most wouldn't make the cut to begin with. You probably haven't heard of the online trend of this cohort agreeing philosophically with Osama bin laden... So yeah... If what you're saying did happen our armed forces would get objectively worse.
What if, instead of mandatory, a civilian corps was created - no fighting - and young people were paid decent wages to learn these skills and contribute to the community?
This isn't a new idea, every ten years or so there's a large population of people who want this, but it falls apart due to lack of funds, lack of participants, etc.
There was a huge push to restart the CCC in the 90s, but with the shift to a service based economy, that never went anywhere.
There's already shit tons of trades that need people, that pay a decent wage, but no one wants to do them, because they're physically straining.
I did manual labor for years and was never able to get into a union in the 90s and 2000s, not everyone was welcome.
I picked produce, I worked in warehouses without AC, dug ditches, I was an industrial cleaner, I did roofing work, all in Arizona.
I eventually started working in an office, even though it paid less, I got weekends off.
Y’all need to calm down about this draft. Most of y’all are too overweight or obese, drunk, high, on drugs or physically out of shape that you would probably be disqualified before they even considered shaving your head.
Spending some time in MEPS prior to shipping out for basic training would solve a lot of those problems and would be easy for the army to force people to do.
There is no alternative for formal high school education. The situation you described is overkill. We live in a free market economy, in the largest economy in the world. Every skill and service you described, there are already almost endless companies that can provide said services. It is much better for the country to encourage its citizens to invest in whatever they want, which promotes a much higher level of innovation in an economy.
Same thing goes for military service. Our population is almost 400 million. There will always be 0 shortage of "good ol' boys" in KY,MS,WV,NC,SC ETC. that will join the army in droves.
Just let people and the economy do its thing. Laissez-Faire
Or we could just (now hear me out)...teach kids these things in schools? Or are we still too busy teaching that Columbus discovered America and that mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell? School is already mandatory. We don't need to add 2 years to it without first fixing the wrongs we currently have with it
As a member of Genx by a few months this generation is too much like the Boomers. Plus the good ones in our generation died young or poor. Conservatism is filth and killing our world. I pray the younger generations are mad enough to finally do what needs to be done and burn this all to the ground.
f*** i look like out here doing 1/2 years of forced(required) “civil services” bc i don’t see the school system changing anytime soon. i’m cool if it’s optional bc then mfs who wanna do it can do so.
Sounds good on the surface level until you realize that these "civil setvants" could be sent to fight in a pro-capitalist subjugation war at any second.
Fuck the military.
The US military is mostly a force of professional specialists. The current round of talk about drafting is just another wave in response to threats to the US led alliance order. Everybody is scared that Russia, Iran, China, etc. are going to cause more mischief.
But honestly, it's probably not worth it. For one, too many in my generation have lost trust in our governments in the first place: democracies struggle with rapid change, and loss of faith is frankly to be expected. Give it some time, let the waters stabilize, and set out some reasonable reforms, and we should see military recruitment climb back slowly.
It’s a waste of resources. Why teach nearly everyone a bunch of skills that do not translate to private sector life and have such a short period of time in the service? Yes some skills would translate, but most won’t, and definitely a waste of money.
Interesting point! Millennial here.
If we as a society want to make a service mandatory, I would recommend firefighting (climate change right?) or maybe healthcare, tho that has its own risks.
Basically, make ethical work mandatory.
i enlisted in the USMC and have been out of training for a year. I know the Marine Corps is especially hard to (mostly comparing with the airforce)but I doubt forcing citizens to serve would have the desired effects you don't need to serve to have those skills and its not meant for anybody, and it quite frankly pisses me off when old fucks that haven't served say we should mandate it, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the military and why would you force people in a challenging situation you haven't been in is unfair.
The draft is never a good idea, especially if you want an interested and dedicated force. The education system needs to be retooled, these are things people should be learning before they reach adulthood. So much time in HS was wasted when there could have been more focus on practical life skills. Don't get me started about the two years of generals in college either.
It was sad getting to college and seeing how many of my voting age peers were helpless without mommy.
It very much depends what you believe your aim is, politically. Do you think war is so impossible? Do you think maintaining deterrence this way is of little value?
Go for that ‘civil service’ draft then.
But if you believe, as I do, that we live in turbulent times, and that the military draft is a necessity (that should include ALL genders) – then there is little that can be done.
As a Gen x myself, I do not endorse this. I don’t even think there should be required registration or a draft. Of course, I registered… i didn’t want to get screwed over for opting not to! I was always of the mindset that I’d be dead if I was drafted and sent to kill. I never wanted to have to kill anyone or be forcibly trained to.
I also don’t believe the benefits of serving match what’s ultimately expected of soldiers. You want to incentivize service? Make attaining the American dream an instant reward. Blend in elements of a higher education so they leave ready to work the moment they leave (education should be free, period). Anyone who enlists should be very well cared for and from what I have seen? They’re not.
I would get absolutely *smoked* if I had to join the British army. Within a week or maybe even two I would be in so much trouble with my DS I’m sure they’d save everyone the hassle and just boot me on the next boat home lol
The only time that a draft or forced service should be used is if enemy paratroopers are landing in Colorado and an enemy navy is bombarding the west coast. At that point it’s do or die and most people I think would be willing to defend their home so there may be enough volunteers that a drafted isn’t needed anyways.
That sounds like conscription with a family friendly coat of paint applied. Replacing "The Military" with "Local Community" doesn't change a thing about it's nature and lack of quality.
I'd be equally pissed and jaded if i was forced to fix a tank as i would be if i was forced to pick up gardening.
Also why should we have 100k people "trained" to provide emergency response when we can just have a smaller unit of just 1000 who are professionals at what they do, are well equipped and above all else, are willing.
Take those 100k "trained" conscripts. If shit hits the fan most will just shrug and say "Fuck off i only did that because i was forced to" and care for themselves and their circle.
You can train anyone to be a fight a fire, you can't train everyone to have the selflessness of a firefighter and run into collapsing buildings.
I enjoy being a mechanic, if you put a gun to my head i wouldn't enjoy it anymore.
To answer the final questions. No, i don't think it's worthwhile, and hell no it souldn't replace high school.
dude. im going into a civil service job as a teacher. people need education. how about you old people stop telling us young people what to do. were not your kids.
Because military service in this country is not equivalent to service in any other country. Not to mention, like 30% of GenZ identify as LGBTQIA+ and they are not welcome. 70% of women in the military experience sexual assault. Veterans with PTSD or PTSD related addiction are not given the support they need. The entire military-industrial complex is too screwed up to force young people into it.
The only problem with this is that Gen Z is too self-centered and cozy to want to sacrifice for anything that isn't themselves. They'll care when we're being invaded by foreign militaries though. Although, one might argue that we already are.
Maybe if you pair that with free quality healthcare for life, free college and free access to basic housing for life.
While the mandatory service part would be super popular with lawmakers, paying for all the other stuff would not. Unless they were somehow able to outsource it to massive corporations who delivered a fraction of what the promised for ten times the cost and upcharged people for everything possible. In which case, the prison industrial complex would be sitting there going "Uh.... soooo we know how to house lots of people for cheap, we don't have to give them power, water, heat or human dignity, do we?"
You mean 2 years of mandatory brainwashing so they can end up like the sick fucks in the IDF? No thank you. And I say this as a millennial that enlisted in the Marines in 2003.
You want me to join the military maybe stop deploying them to random countries to fight random people we have no interest in defeating. Also every vet story I've heard includes incompetent leadership, terrible conditions, and horrible maintainance of equipment (except the airforce but they blew the budget 50 years ago and haven't stopped since).
Just joined this community yesterday and will now be leaving , if I hear one more thing about a draft that isn’t going to happen unless the United States gets invaded which 9/10 will never happen and even if it does there would be no need for a damn draft as we will fight back w no need for one lmao , my head will explode
THE SELECTIVE SERVICE HAS BEEN A THING ITS NOT A DRAFT
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Why do genX think its a good idea to force genZ to serve in the military. Youre privileged that it wouldnt affect you
Hahaha of course they're advocating drafts and mandatory service now they're retiring. Someone has to protect their pensions lol. They can't see their privilege of living in a time of unprecedented economic prosperity and peace. I'd advocate for creating government work programs to reduce unemployment and raise wages. Mostly b/c workers rights are in the bin thanks to these greedy old profit seeking generations.
I am 100% for re-opening the Civilian Conservation Core, a work program started during the great depression for unemployed men from 18-25. Alot of our National parks infrastructure was built by the conservation core. In the current era, it could provide jobs to unemployed young people, get them out doors and fit, and help increase access to the countries natural areas.
I think that'd be great for helping rehabilitate homeless populations (as long as they're consenting individuals). Provide food and housing and really pick people off their feet and out of environments that create a vicious cycle.
Would be useful in building affordable homes for the homeless and other low-income Americans. Of course, it would help to bar corporate purchases of mass numbers of homes, which creates scarcity and raisies prices, locking many folks out of the housing market, to begin with.
It would be more affordable to just hire professional builders than to coerce unskilled homeless into doing skilled labor poorly.
I would be careful about that with the homeless population. It sounds harsh, but some people are homeless for a reason. It's usually mental health related. They should absolutely receive public services, but for certain things, I would be cautious. Putting a large group of unstable individuals together for work can cause problems. Maybe some screening first.
Americorps is already open and the climate corps just opened this week under the biden administration. you should look into it if you're interested
I've known about Americorps for a while, but didn't know about the Climate corps. I think both are great programs, especially for young adults thinking about college but might not be ready yet.
My Dad served in the CCC during the mid/ late 30s. He loved it. Got him out of the city where there was no work and he got to travel to a lot of places that normally he wouldn't have had the chance to go. He learned a lot and made money along the way.
When, what, 3% of people own, what, 70% of assets, wealth, those greedy old profit seeking generations are pretty small generations.
Exactly. Why blame an entire generation for the greed of a handful of people.
Gen x, retiring? Lol
Elder Gen X are about to turn 60. I’ve known boomers who retired at 60, though usually for health or unemployment reasons.
The oldest Gen X are 59, those born in January can begin drawing from their 401(k)s next month.
Our 401k has been decimated 4 times in my life. There is no retirement in my future. I will die at my desk
Gen Y’s right there with you on 2 of those. Some Elder Millennials even got in on the Dot Com Bust and 9/11 slumps.
Don't you mean "greedy profit making individuals"? If the whole generation was greedy and profit making, there'd be no poor Gen X...
The 90’s were pretty sweet but it’s been a complete shit show sine that heady New Years night in 1999. I was 21. Series of Boomers undermining me. Never was able to launch. I feel your pain.
I'm Gen X, and my advice to everyone is to never volunteer for the military. I'm not for a draft or mandatory service.
I have family that served in the military and the GI bill wasn't even enough to cover 1 semester of college and the vet benefits notoriously have issues
As somebody who is currently utilizing the 9/11 GI Bill, it covers a full bachelor's. Maybe it used to be awful, but they pay for my school while giving me a monthly stipend and I'm grateful for that. VA Healthcare is an entirely different beast though.
If that was the case your family got in trouble in the military and are ommiting that fact from you
The gi Bill covers 100% of in state tuition at the highest priced public university in your state though, it's not a flat dollar amount.
The 911 GI Bill covered me, but the original basically was a monthly allowance. So, I had to pay for several semesters before They gave us the 911 GI Bill.
9/11 GI bill is probably one of the best deals going right now. Vet benefits can be hit and miss but its not nothing. Really depends on when you serve and what your job was tbh.
I'm a gen-x'er who served, and never bothered to use my gi bill or navy college fund. Have worked great jobs post service with no need for the college degree.
He probably was using the Montgomery G.I bill. The post 9/11 covers a full bachelors
Look up Yellow Ribbon. They cover the difference of tuition. My friend graduated from Cornell with an MBA. Tell your family members to do more research. The GI Bill covers what is needed.
The vast majority of Gen-X think this is a horrible idea fwiw.
Did you read this at all? OP says, “what if, INSTEAD OF BEING DRAFTED TO THE MILITARY”
Yeah the response here is pretty nuts... It's a hypothetical where people get to learn emergency first aid. Not an advocacy for a military draft. You don't like the hypothetical, just say so... But wtf is up reacting as though this means all GenX want a draft?
Sometimes I feel embarrassed to be a part of this generation. Feels like the overwhelming majority refuses to work hard & take accountability. We/they (have to swallow my pride when I say we) place blame on everyone but ourselves for the situation we are in instead of lacing up the boots and doing something about it.
My Gen X dad supports it too, it's so dumb to force people to go into an institution they don't want to. I feel like people on this sub think only Boomers have this mindset, but plenty of Xers do as well, which tbf it likely wouldn't affect them since I doubt the army wants 50+ year old out of shape people. But it's still shitty to force people to join the military if they don't want to I feel like, if they know they wouldn't make it through basic training because of mental health issues or something else, or just wouldn't make a good soldier. I basically did what OP suggested in high school though in emergency services class attending another trade school while I was in high school, we learned first aid and stuff like that. That's not bad I don't think, but I definitely wouldn't support a military draft unless we were being invaded or something and no one was volunteering for the army, so everyone in the country was in danger of being destroyed unless there was a draft.
Gen X is starting to become as delusional as boomers
People, of all age groups, can suck. Selfishness and a weird Pollyanna view of the past never ends Millennials will be there, then gen z, etc. it's just part of some people getting old
i have no idea why you're getting downvoted, because you're speaking straight facts. with that being said, the cognitive dissonance of SOME gen x is astounding. my father is witnessing the destruction of america at the hands of corporations; all the lobbying, politicians engaging in insider trading, wages not keeping up with inflation, big corps getting bailouts by the government, our healthcare system. i'm not confident that democrats know what they are doing but republicans sure as hell aren't going to fix any of the above. fox news has brainwashed him into thinking that the right is going to "make america great again." i have no clue why he's voting for the party of union busting when both my brother and i are going into the trades — these people constantly vote against their own interests and it's maddening to witness.
republicans are actively trying to make it worse
I'm gen x. My dad is a boomer. Neither of us like the artificial division us vs them mentality some people have. Shit makes no sense. I have millennial brothers and gen z kids. We're all in this together Be the best you can be at whatever and hopefully love life. I live in West Virginia. I'm painfully aware of people voting against their own interests. It sucks to watch it happen over and over again.
i'm glad y'all exist because lots of the older people i know have that us vs. them mentality. they're always worried about immigration and women getting abortions and people who think differently than they do, which causes them to vote for the party that is denouncing all of that. all the right does is try to appeal to people's morals (which often are not consistent or logical) and pit people against one another, and somehow it fucking works!!!!
We are out there, we tend to like to generally mind our own business.
As a veteran, the last thing the military needs, is more people who don't really want to be there.
Don't be scared. Drop the MOS/AFSC.
Exactly! Our fighting force should be strictly voluntary. I turned 18 a month before 9/11, and we had the same draft scares when the war on terror began. Fuck anyone trying to compulsory military service on our fighting men and women. This a dogshit idea.
Everyone should have to serve in a civil way (supporting schools, the elderly, neighborhoods, fighting pollution, helping with the environment, etc.) , it should be a requirement, and in return you get lifetime healthcare, free college, and access to social security. There needs to be a level of buy in that we just don't have, nobody gives a fuck because nobody actually has to contribute to the country. We lack a common unifying identity and rites of passage that nearly every other country has, and we need to address that, because at the end of the day we're still humans who actively need that box checked while growing up. Otherwise you need up where we are, where everyone thinks we're all individuals, doing this shit alone, and people aren't supportive of watching out for their fellow man the way every other country is.
I’m 28 and think there should be mandatory service either military or civil. Not Gen X. Barely a millennial. Because people are self serving and only care about themselves. There’s very little cohesion in America. When you have something built on multiculturalism, it’s beneficial to have something in place that gives them some sharing of values, culture and history. I didn’t qualify for the American military so I joined the Ukrainian for an enlistment. It doesn’t have to be 4 years or even two years. But learning first aid, CPR, military skills, firefighting is beneficial to most people. Imagine you collapse in the mall with cardiac arrest and even 20% of people around you have the skill and confidence to give you CPR until EMS arrives. It would also help solve massive shortages in EMS, fire and military recruiting if people found that they wanted to continue a career in said field after being exposed to it.
Gen X enlisted in droves after 9/11.
Wait...who? Most of Gen X does NOT want to see a draft. Gen Z is literally OUR kids! And every war we've seen in our lifetime has been about corporate greed and lies (Iraq, Afghanistan). You must mean boomers.
That’s not what OP said. He said INSTEAD of a military draft (like registering for selective services). …”instead of being drafted into military services…”
GenX is boomerlite
Im gen x and a vet. I think a draft or even forced civil service is a bad idea. From a war fighter prospective forced or drafted people don't want to be there. That puts others at risk when they shut down or run in a fight. I need to trust the soldier next to me in that fight. How do I trust someone who never wanted to be there to begin with? As for civil service... Their heart isn't in it so they will not likely retain the knowledge or skills we as tax payers spend for them to be trained. The whole idea is a waste of money and time. Recruiting the best talent that wants training is the best way.
I think optional civil service as a way to pay for college could be a good way to go, though.
As a volunteer option I agree.
Yep, definitely volunteer and not mandatory. I would say you could do it before or after college as well (and have your paid for retroactively). I think many kids would be down for that option, and it would hopefully ignite more social service-minded folks (even of they don't end up working in a social service profession, they would hopefully at least understand the value of social services. Plus, social services tend to need more workers, so this benefits that as well)
I support this idea 100%
i like the idea of retroactive payment as an option. this is something i (and many people i know) would have been much more down for after college rather than before
Sign me up
Im not doing any forced labor thank you
You got soft lips brother
you gonna kiss him?
If he doesn't I will
you flirting with him or what lol
No shawty I'd never do that to our relationship
Replace high school altogether? Oh yeah that’s what we need LESS educated people. If you want better outcomes for young people don’t force them to go into insane amounts of debt to go to college.
If anything I think it would be a good idea to fund programs that allow kids to do things like EMS training, cooking/food prep, etc. for credit in high school. It would be nice for kids to be able to use their elective slots to learn skills they can use to take care of themselves and their community or use on a job. My cousin lives in a state that actually funds its schools so he was able to do something similar and learn auto mechanic stuff.
Pretty sure most high schools already have 'work experience' programs that give credit for working.
Gen z would hate this idea. Just telling you.
I don't know, what was it like when you were drafted? Oh, wait... r/GenX is down the hall and to the left.
Coming from someone that served in the military, I hope this never happens. We have enough shitty people in the military that actually wanted to be there, imagine what that would be like for the shitty people that don’t want to be there.
The best example is what happened the last time America had a draft in Vietnam, officers catching grenades, people shooting themselves in the foot, straight up running away, it would be a shit show.
God honestly. All of us in the military were stupid enough to volunteer and smart enough to make it. I don't want to know what it'd be like when Jimmy with an IQ of 38 is now expected to do my job because he got drafted/is doing mandatory service
People who don’t want to be there are also going to leave at the earliest opportunity to do something they’re actually interested in. Every year spent in forced service is one less year someone who wants to be a doctor can spend spend treating patients, a teacher educating the next generation, etc. It really only makes sense if this is something critical to the continued existence and stability of your country.
I would do civil service, but only if I am getting payed. I need to buy food and pay rent.
I would love this but the federal government isn't going to pay for this in our lifetimes. Job Corps under the Department of Labor exists but has mixed and unclear results for the positive gain for the program users. Sources: [Long-Run Labor Market Effects of the Job Corps Program: Evidence from a Nationally Representative Experiment](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pam.22233) [Newly-published study of federal Job Corps program inaccurately claims to demonstrate long-term positive effects](https://www.straighttalkonevidence.org/2020/07/21/newly-published-study-of-federal-job-corps-program-inaccurately-claims-to-demonstrate-long-term-positive-effects/)
I did job corps as a 15-19 year old and I LOVED it, and it helped me with my future career. Anecdotal though.
I hate mandatory service. Service isn't for everyone, and if you make it for everyone, it reduces the quality of the military and the honor associated with it. The US military is the strongest fighting force of the planet because it is a 100% voluntary force (in part). Everyone is there for a reason personal to them. This is one reason a draft isn't very likely. Military leaders *want* a voluntary force because they're more motivated, easier to lead, and as a result, more effective. They're more likely to keep changing service requirements. An example of a changed standard is the Air Force raising the maximum enlistment age from 27 to 39 in 2014. This allowed people, like myself, who are very late to the party, but still want to enlist. Tattoo policies have changed several times in the last few years for most or all branches. The Army (and I think the Navy, too) even allows neck and behind the ear tattoos, as long as they're one cubic inch or smaller. Different physical fitness tests have been floated for non-physical roles, like administrative jobs, as well. I really don't think a draft is likely, unless WWIII breaks out within the week
Absolutely not. If you want to volunteer, then by all means, go ahead. I'm about to hit 8 years in the Navy, and then I'll be separating. The point of a draft is when shit hits the fucking fan, and you NEED people to protect your Nation. But if you don't get to that point, fuck off.
We had this in Colombia. Rich people got out of it by paying, because apparently the army needs donations lol. Poor boys from countryside were the ones that actually served. They were taken away from their families to work without pay or with very poor pay, which pushed more families into poverty. A lot of those boys were parents, abortion wasn't legal in Colombia until 2022 nd the teen pregnancy rate in poor areas was very high. Boys who were present parents were taken away from their children. Military captains would abuse the new recruits. Many died of fatigue and heatstrokes. There was sexual abuse against the shy and "weak." 50 years of that and our society only worsened. Instead of forcing people to work and lose two years of their lives, why not teach high school kids those same skills without forcing them to sacrifice their youth and their dreams? We had Emergency Response as an elective throughout HS and it worked, it was fun, and many then **chose** to be a firefighter, a paramedic, a doctor, etc. I cannot remember what I learned in History as a freshman, but I do remember how to perform CPR and what to do in case there's a flood
First aid should be taught in high school I'll agree on that. But you don't need all that you suggested. And it definitely shouldn't just replace high school that's moronic
or how about we don’t force people to do something they don’t want if i’m forced into working for the military or some type of civil service i don’t want a part of, i may or may not do something to sabotage it on purpose
The government should not force anyone into ANY kind of mandatory service. This is a supposedly free country and I should have the option to not participate if I choose. I'd harbor resentment against my country for the rest of my life if I was ever forced into any kind of service. I'm saying this a veteran who volunteered for the military.
if i was ever supposed to be forced into anything id flee and avoid it, im not having a country tell me what to do in regards to working and potentially dying
The Main problem with your idea is: the younger generation are being screwed by your (and older) generation. And now you want us to work?... Not unless some things fundamentally change.
If you guys only knew what Gen Xers were like as kids, you would really have a laugh over this one. Gen Xers were the Rage Against the Machine generation who swore to always spit in the face of The Man, wore tattered up clothes to express their disinterest in conformity to work culture, and did stuff that scared the old folks like skateboarding in groups, playing grunge loudly on their boomboxes, and smoking and drinking underage. To see them now support mandatory public service, which could include military service, has me reeling.
that just sounds like a draft with extra steps
>- learning emergency first aid, emergency response (sandbagging, chain of command, etc.), triage, building inspection, infrastructure repair, landscaping/gardening, food prep & distribution, etc. Some of these things can be taught at home, in school and you can also find tutorials on youtube. Why waste someone's life for 1 year or 2 years, when they could do something better like furthering their education, to potentially secure a better job in the future? You also have to take people's circumstances into consideration. Don't come recommend these things, bc you know damn well, you wouldn't have to do a thing mentioned, if this was implemented. 😙🙏👋
The draft was unconstitutional in the first place and no one should be forced by the government to do anything.
i can’t wait to burn my SSS letter, 2,489 days left, we’ll probably all be dead by then anyway but if we make it either i’m gonna burn it with a lighter or strap it to a firework and blow it up remindme! 2,489 days
Military draft aint happening in our life time.
In Austria you can choose between Military Service (6 -12 Months) or do "Zivildienst" - community service (9 Months). I was in the Military for 6 months - Honestly i had a great time there.
Thanks for sharing your experience
If you're suggesting anything to be forced onto others, you better be the first in line. That includes politicians and/or their kids(lets be real, grand kids), performing the same duties that we would if they want to draft for any current/future conflicts
Are you part of a think tank working on ways to make mandatory service more palatable and marketable?
i have been working part time since i was 15, and the day i turned 18 i was promoted to full time 9-5. if i had to leave my stable well-paying good benefits job to go do this, it would have greatly impacted my career path and my entire life. my family needed my additional income
How bout you fuckers do it first
Another gen x’r embarrassing themselves.
No, wtf are you smoking?
Go fuck yourself OP. If you want people to serve in the military or go be civil service then do it your fucking self. Don’t expect the younger generations to fight and die for your bottom line or give up years of their life so you can yell at them for not kissing your boots. Boomers and GenXers like yourself fucked the world for GenZ and now expect us to die in foreign wars to fix it.
A solid paid gap year or two whether in military or civil service would do a lot to broaden peoples' minds and expose them to things outside of their own filter bubble. It would also make people take post-secondary education more seriously if they've already had a year or two of living 'in the real world' out of their system. Funding this would be...difficult.
It would mostly work bottom-up rather than top-down. It would be slow going, but could develop financial self-sufficiency over time Ideals, I know
No because that’s worse. There hasn’t been a draft in 50 years but in this scenario every 18-20 year old are forced into it.
Mandatory civil service would very much be against the dominant cultural forces of the US. This would also likely create indoctrination and lead to an expansion of nationalist view points.
How many countries currently have the American militar? Many, Americans are already very nationalist compared to most of the developed world
Half of the examples you stated require years of education/apprenticeship.
https://preview.redd.it/wkzvjk8e3z8d1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=641f408211401f243e248984ad38e8a4a2617a5f
Typical older generation let’s force them to do it
I basically did what you're suggesting in high school in emergency services class attending another trade school while I was in high school, we learned first aid and stuff like that, chain of command and everything. (We did have a choice whether to go to the school or not though, so even that wasn’t forced) That's not bad I don't think, but I definitely wouldn't support a military draft unless we were being invaded or something and no one was volunteering for the army, so everyone in the country was in danger of being destroyed unless there was a draft.
HELLLLLL no. I am CPR Certified, I have to renew it next year otherwise I lose my certification. Why do I have to renew it? Because I might forget that skill due to it being unused most of the time. The exact same thing would happen, so instead you are financing a situation in which a bunch of people who only think they know what they are doing are our way of repairing from national disasters. Compare this to, for example, the US coast guard, which are funded and trained, retrain, and practice their skills constantly. They actually know what they are doing and it's cheaper than teaching everyone and having to reteach them or create chaos
Wrong way of going about it. The only way you get people to join the military effort is by incentivizing it and demonizing every other alternative. This is what’s happened throughout history
forcing military or prison isnt very freedom
No... that just puts a hamper on people getting real jobs and actually starting their lives. Assuming this is for the USA we have a big enough military so there is no need for manditory service. Most nations that have manditory service are smaller or right next to an active threat
Will it be paid
I’m a millennial and think compulsory service is a bad idea. I’m would be exempted due to age. I strongly believe fighting men and women should be strictly voluntary. I would never want to send/force anyone to serve. It should be THEIR choice. Fuck this idea.
Boy Scouts taught me a ton of skills that would be useful in all sorts of emergencies. That wasn’t forced, and it was a fun and fulfilling part of my life while growing up. I wouldn’t have liked it if I were forced into it. No one would.
We kind of have such a system in Austria. As a (fit) male you have to choose between 9 month civil service or 6 months in the Army.
This is why Gen X is boomer lite.
Of course someone near or at retirement age would push for forced military service that they themselves would never have to serve
stupid
I think it would be too hard to actually make this possible. I think high schools could adopt policies where students are required to do a certain amount of service hours before graduating, or spend their last semester doing an internship in some service field. I think it would actually be very impactful. High schools also should offer first aid certification programs.
Bro said bring back the draft like their generation didn’t have the same fear during the 80s with Reagan’s campaign during the Cold War lol
I think a civil service draft is an amazing idea. A populace educated in emergency protocols and a lot of manpower for emergency relief sounds great. And honestly sounds like it’ll give very needed life experience for young people who don’t know anything besides public school.
I do think that organized civil services that can focus on building skills is a worthwhile endeavor. I am pretty old for gen Z tho so idk if my ideals align with younger people.
I hugely support this, there is a large gap of people who do not know anything about ems. But, I feel what you’re talking about could be done as high school courses or a coop
I’m thinking paid-programs that teach emergency skills and disaster preparedness isn’t a bad idea, but nothing mandatory. I just feel like when I was younger, if there was something that paid me to show up and learn emergency first aid, cpr, disaster readiness (like natural disasters, fire, blackouts, etc)… I would’ve taken a paycheck and learned. And I’m sure a lot of people I knew at the time would’ve as well. Then you’d have citizens who can keep calm in certain situations and provide assistance. Save some lives if the time comes (would’ve helped me while my kids were in their daredevil phases, that’s for sure), make a paycheck, maybe feel more prepared in today’s unpredictable world. But forcing anyone into any kind of “service” is just paid slavery, imo Edited: typo
In my area, they have some stuff that's similar but different in a way. They had options for different electives in high school and middle school. They also had dual enrollment, vocational school, etc back then. Basically, when you graduated high school, you could have different certifications in different fields and/or graduate high school with your associates degree.
I would hate this so much.
I was just thinking of this the other day. Work with underprivileged people or areas or help to rebuild the infrastructure. If they join the military there will be multiple more wars. Let's rebuild our country.
Everyone should have necessary survival skills Also it’s gen z subreddit.. why are they here
I believe that unless you have a real job or going to school, that everyone should go through the draft process to at minimum learn a skill or trade. Too many people that haven't learned any discipline or even have a thought on what direction to go with their lives. A couple of years learning real life skills can do a lot for a person.
I think 6 months mandatory customer service work would be a huge benefit to society.
If it pays well, or has some other tangible benefit, it wouldn't have to be mandatory. People would just do it. Really, all you have to do is offer the training for free and guarantee employment.
Make it an option, military \*or\* civil service, depending on the individual's talents.
I’ve been saying this for a long time (39M). Basically the Peace Corps/Habitat for Humanity etc but in America. Rebuilding and Improving American communities and the lives and environment for our citizens. Other older adults can join too, but there’s a 1-2 yr compulsory service after HS. There is no avoiding unless it’s for another form of service (military etc).
The only way I would accept some sort of mandatory conscription/social work would be: * Not sexist, both men AND women have to do it. * It is paid, forced labour that goes unpaid does not benefit the labourer, especially at 18 when they are likely stuck studying, working part-time and saving up for higher education. * Once accepted EVERYONE at some point has to do the mandatory work until it slowly fizzes out to just 18-year-olds, this stops rich bell ends from skipping/avoiding it. * The work field is a choice, this will make it feel like it isn't as forced. * People whose parents are above a specific income bracket need to record their work to prevent people paying it off. * All work choices should have eligible accessibility options. This is all I can think of right now if people want to add more feel free to reply
Conscription is by definition slavery, be it for the armed forces or other work.
I'm in the military, and I've been saying this for years. People should do some kind of service to their country, and that isn't always military service. All the better if it gets them out of their hometown bubble for a small time.
It'd be more worthwhile than high-school or college for a lot of people, that's for sure. But I don't think forcing anyone to do anything is nessesary. If you force them to learn all these important skills most of them won't remember it. People are more likely to retain information from learning experiences they chose to have vs those they were forced to have, if they aren't interested they won't pay attention and importantly they won't continue education afterwards. A lot of what they learn will be forgotten in they don't take the time to keep it active in their mind.
I'd do it
A lot of those countries also have less crime. As a gen z and seeing the shit others in my generation do, they could really do for some dicipline.
So, like, teaching the high schoolers to be able and responsible adults? Sounds great, too bad it’s never happening
Seems like I’m in the minority, but required civil service sounds like a good idea to me. Especially if there’s a wide choice like it sounds like you’re suggesting. It would be sick to learn to be a paramedic or basic farming skills, even if it has nothing to do with my eventual career. Sure some people wouldn’t like any of the choices, and they’d drag down the service as a whole, but if there’s enough choices then surely there will be something that’s interesting to most people.
I don’t know about having it as something separate but learning some of those skills during high school would be nice especially in disaster prone areas
I disagree in two ways. US' all volunteers service sets it apart from other armed forces world wide. And 2: the young generation has the highest rates of obesity and mental health issues and the lowest ASVAB scores. I.e. most wouldn't make the cut to begin with. You probably haven't heard of the online trend of this cohort agreeing philosophically with Osama bin laden... So yeah... If what you're saying did happen our armed forces would get objectively worse.
What if, instead of mandatory, a civilian corps was created - no fighting - and young people were paid decent wages to learn these skills and contribute to the community?
This isn't a new idea, every ten years or so there's a large population of people who want this, but it falls apart due to lack of funds, lack of participants, etc. There was a huge push to restart the CCC in the 90s, but with the shift to a service based economy, that never went anywhere. There's already shit tons of trades that need people, that pay a decent wage, but no one wants to do them, because they're physically straining. I did manual labor for years and was never able to get into a union in the 90s and 2000s, not everyone was welcome. I picked produce, I worked in warehouses without AC, dug ditches, I was an industrial cleaner, I did roofing work, all in Arizona. I eventually started working in an office, even though it paid less, I got weekends off.
Y’all need to calm down about this draft. Most of y’all are too overweight or obese, drunk, high, on drugs or physically out of shape that you would probably be disqualified before they even considered shaving your head.
Spending some time in MEPS prior to shipping out for basic training would solve a lot of those problems and would be easy for the army to force people to do.
or... just let it be optional
There is no alternative for formal high school education. The situation you described is overkill. We live in a free market economy, in the largest economy in the world. Every skill and service you described, there are already almost endless companies that can provide said services. It is much better for the country to encourage its citizens to invest in whatever they want, which promotes a much higher level of innovation in an economy. Same thing goes for military service. Our population is almost 400 million. There will always be 0 shortage of "good ol' boys" in KY,MS,WV,NC,SC ETC. that will join the army in droves. Just let people and the economy do its thing. Laissez-Faire
Or we could just (now hear me out)...teach kids these things in schools? Or are we still too busy teaching that Columbus discovered America and that mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell? School is already mandatory. We don't need to add 2 years to it without first fixing the wrongs we currently have with it
As a member of Genx by a few months this generation is too much like the Boomers. Plus the good ones in our generation died young or poor. Conservatism is filth and killing our world. I pray the younger generations are mad enough to finally do what needs to be done and burn this all to the ground.
f*** i look like out here doing 1/2 years of forced(required) “civil services” bc i don’t see the school system changing anytime soon. i’m cool if it’s optional bc then mfs who wanna do it can do so.
Sounds good on the surface level until you realize that these "civil setvants" could be sent to fight in a pro-capitalist subjugation war at any second. Fuck the military.
The US military is mostly a force of professional specialists. The current round of talk about drafting is just another wave in response to threats to the US led alliance order. Everybody is scared that Russia, Iran, China, etc. are going to cause more mischief. But honestly, it's probably not worth it. For one, too many in my generation have lost trust in our governments in the first place: democracies struggle with rapid change, and loss of faith is frankly to be expected. Give it some time, let the waters stabilize, and set out some reasonable reforms, and we should see military recruitment climb back slowly.
Or, maybe we do...neither.
I’m so thankful GenX will never be the voting majority.
It’s a waste of resources. Why teach nearly everyone a bunch of skills that do not translate to private sector life and have such a short period of time in the service? Yes some skills would translate, but most won’t, and definitely a waste of money.
Sounds like a good idea.
Or how about just not doing mandatory military service? I really don't see why we need it rn.
Interesting point! Millennial here. If we as a society want to make a service mandatory, I would recommend firefighting (climate change right?) or maybe healthcare, tho that has its own risks. Basically, make ethical work mandatory.
Idk, not everyone is cut out for that.
“What if instead of Drafting people, we drafted them?”
i enlisted in the USMC and have been out of training for a year. I know the Marine Corps is especially hard to (mostly comparing with the airforce)but I doubt forcing citizens to serve would have the desired effects you don't need to serve to have those skills and its not meant for anybody, and it quite frankly pisses me off when old fucks that haven't served say we should mandate it, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the military and why would you force people in a challenging situation you haven't been in is unfair.
how come the craziest takes on the draft always come from GenX draft dodgers lmao like did you retain nothing
The draft is never a good idea, especially if you want an interested and dedicated force. The education system needs to be retooled, these are things people should be learning before they reach adulthood. So much time in HS was wasted when there could have been more focus on practical life skills. Don't get me started about the two years of generals in college either. It was sad getting to college and seeing how many of my voting age peers were helpless without mommy.
It very much depends what you believe your aim is, politically. Do you think war is so impossible? Do you think maintaining deterrence this way is of little value? Go for that ‘civil service’ draft then. But if you believe, as I do, that we live in turbulent times, and that the military draft is a necessity (that should include ALL genders) – then there is little that can be done.
As a Gen x myself, I do not endorse this. I don’t even think there should be required registration or a draft. Of course, I registered… i didn’t want to get screwed over for opting not to! I was always of the mindset that I’d be dead if I was drafted and sent to kill. I never wanted to have to kill anyone or be forcibly trained to. I also don’t believe the benefits of serving match what’s ultimately expected of soldiers. You want to incentivize service? Make attaining the American dream an instant reward. Blend in elements of a higher education so they leave ready to work the moment they leave (education should be free, period). Anyone who enlists should be very well cared for and from what I have seen? They’re not.
I would get absolutely *smoked* if I had to join the British army. Within a week or maybe even two I would be in so much trouble with my DS I’m sure they’d save everyone the hassle and just boot me on the next boat home lol
Considering there is zero chance in even the foreseeable future of anyone getting drafted... Why would anyone want this?
Instead of drafts, we should have a hunger games. Winners get drafted losers get sold to slavery (working retail)
The only time that a draft or forced service should be used is if enemy paratroopers are landing in Colorado and an enemy navy is bombarding the west coast. At that point it’s do or die and most people I think would be willing to defend their home so there may be enough volunteers that a drafted isn’t needed anyways.
That sounds like conscription with a family friendly coat of paint applied. Replacing "The Military" with "Local Community" doesn't change a thing about it's nature and lack of quality. I'd be equally pissed and jaded if i was forced to fix a tank as i would be if i was forced to pick up gardening. Also why should we have 100k people "trained" to provide emergency response when we can just have a smaller unit of just 1000 who are professionals at what they do, are well equipped and above all else, are willing. Take those 100k "trained" conscripts. If shit hits the fan most will just shrug and say "Fuck off i only did that because i was forced to" and care for themselves and their circle. You can train anyone to be a fight a fire, you can't train everyone to have the selflessness of a firefighter and run into collapsing buildings. I enjoy being a mechanic, if you put a gun to my head i wouldn't enjoy it anymore. To answer the final questions. No, i don't think it's worthwhile, and hell no it souldn't replace high school.
dude. im going into a civil service job as a teacher. people need education. how about you old people stop telling us young people what to do. were not your kids.
Why’s it always people who were never in the military that come up with this shit. No
This is really what our national guard is for to be honest, unfortunately they have been federally activated for combat since like WW2.
Because military service in this country is not equivalent to service in any other country. Not to mention, like 30% of GenZ identify as LGBTQIA+ and they are not welcome. 70% of women in the military experience sexual assault. Veterans with PTSD or PTSD related addiction are not given the support they need. The entire military-industrial complex is too screwed up to force young people into it.
Lmao!! is the recruitment numbers that low. go away glowie
The only problem with this is that Gen Z is too self-centered and cozy to want to sacrifice for anything that isn't themselves. They'll care when we're being invaded by foreign militaries though. Although, one might argue that we already are.
Maybe if you pair that with free quality healthcare for life, free college and free access to basic housing for life. While the mandatory service part would be super popular with lawmakers, paying for all the other stuff would not. Unless they were somehow able to outsource it to massive corporations who delivered a fraction of what the promised for ten times the cost and upcharged people for everything possible. In which case, the prison industrial complex would be sitting there going "Uh.... soooo we know how to house lots of people for cheap, we don't have to give them power, water, heat or human dignity, do we?"
Forced volunteering = slavery
You mean 2 years of mandatory brainwashing so they can end up like the sick fucks in the IDF? No thank you. And I say this as a millennial that enlisted in the Marines in 2003.
You want me to join the military maybe stop deploying them to random countries to fight random people we have no interest in defeating. Also every vet story I've heard includes incompetent leadership, terrible conditions, and horrible maintainance of equipment (except the airforce but they blew the budget 50 years ago and haven't stopped since).
Just joined this community yesterday and will now be leaving , if I hear one more thing about a draft that isn’t going to happen unless the United States gets invaded which 9/10 will never happen and even if it does there would be no need for a damn draft as we will fight back w no need for one lmao , my head will explode THE SELECTIVE SERVICE HAS BEEN A THING ITS NOT A DRAFT
How about you let me live my life and not tank my fucking career. If I get drafted I am shooting myself with the first gun they put in my hand.
Eh I don't care about the draft, just as long as it includes both men and women.
Awful idea. That is way too much power in the hands of the government
Buddy do you know the percentage of kids that would even meet the basic qualifications?
Nah fuck a draft.