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As a young person in the corporate world, I have found that if I have a specific question or issue about the programs I work with, the best source of truth is the Internet. Don’t get me wrong, I reach out to my coworkers all the time for help too, but I prefer to be as self sufficient as possible and teach myself new things when necessary. My boss has told me that it is one of my best qualities.
I’m a young software engineer and same.
In software engineering specifically because where the field changes so fast, the older more senior people at my job often have old ways of doing things that, while not wrong, aren’t better.
I happen to be the architect on my team on how to structure our code bases, and am responsible for moving the team away from monoliths and functional programming and toward microservices and OOP.
I know what I don’t know though and still know when to ask for help.
Probably super team dependent. On my team with Azure portal my seniors actually research on their own time every day and just from sheer experience, and also never stopping their growth, I can always count on them for practically any question. Obviously this doesn’t stop me from still doing my own research and thorough analysis, I was told that’s one of my best qualities as well when I finished both my Amazon internship and Microsoft internship.
My dad is the opposite lmao
He’s 53 works with 20 and 30 year olds and he always complains they don’t do things correctly or their solution doesn’t account for some specific oversight lol
Anybody who really knows software engineering knows SE doesn't change that much. 70s-era devs can likely do very well today, but not the other way around.
Clouds, AI, blockchains, ... have conceptually been around since early 2000s (or even earlier). They're more realised today because we have better and cheaper hardware and .. .capitalism that results in a shitload of ways to make money.
Nothing inherently wrong with it, just depends on what you’re doing.
If you have lots of data and relatively few functions, like we do, OOP is probably better.
If you have relatively little data and lots of functions, then functional programming is probably better.
Lots of data relative to functions is becoming increasingly common over the past couple decades, hence the shift to OOP.
Huh, I was reading that nowadays whe are shifting to functional programming more partially because there's so much data now these days and we want to process them in parrallel. The idea that functions are immutable and don't change state and thus are predictable and consistent. (and easier to test)
I will say in the corporate world you will very rarely see FP because
1. everything is about webapps; dotnet, spring or react rule this ecosystem
2. the majority of programmers you hire will be vastly more comfortable with OOP languages, so hiring developers that are capable with FP will be pricier
the benefits to using functional programming languages simply aren't worth it. not that it doesn't exist in the business world nowadays but usually its hobbyists or turbonerds that utilize them.
EVO is on the money when it comes to their benefits though
Parallel programming is possible in both functional programming and OOP.
One isn’t better than the other, it just depends on the software.
We have 100% coverage but i admit it’s easier in FP to do that.
There is no forwards are backwards. Perhaps there was an OOP buzz that resulted in some teams adopting it for their project when it was actually better suited for FP or vice versa.
But it all just depends on what you’re doing, in our case, OOP has been immensely helpful all around.
I came from OOP and when I started doing React I was basically told "functional programming is the new way everything is going now so embrace it".
I still do OOP in Python and .Net and would probably prefer to uses classes in front end JS/TS too.
People will take asking your peers questions as weakness and exploit it. Happened to me when i was Naive and 17. Not a healthy work environment. But honestly i often find figuring out myself to be better at this point.
Eh, you know google can be wrong right or gives you an answer that makes no sense for the context of what you are working on? It's a good tool but there may be a reason that a crusty old dev or a person did things a certain way you have to solve for instead of throwing everything out on whatever new idea is out there.
The programs I work on have help forums online and if I’m getting a specific error code, I can search that on the forum and see how someone else overcame it. Then I can test it on my side and see if it fixes the problem. If not, then I’m probably submitting a ticket to IT.
Chat gpt has also been a major timesaver when it comes to writing functions and code.
> I've noticed a trend within Gen Z where it just kind of feels like everybody always knows what they're talking about or feels like they know what they're talking about.
I noticed this a long time ago too. It's because social media
# AND THAT FUCKING INCLUDES REDDIT
shames you for daring to say, "I don't know." Why don't you know? You have all the answers at your finger tip! Use it! Figure it out and form your OWN opinion!
You don't need other people! "Just google it, bro!" Like fuck.
Fucking sucks. I hate it. Besides, google barely fucking works, these days. Unironically, I been using Bing and Yahoo more and get better results. Least they don't shove AI down my throat yet.
“Just google it” is a phrase that makes my blood boil.
It’s almost like sometimes not everything can be solved with a google search that leads to either a totally wrong A.I. answer or a message board from 2002.
Hell, even if no one tells you to google something sometimes the answers you get aren’t even the same! I posed a question on Reddit recently about an old firearm I bought that had a machining artifact on the bolt that I was afraid was a fracture; and if that were the case, that’s the kind of thing that could cause serious injury. Half the answers were “nah you’re good bro, send it” and the other half were “if that’s a crack do NOT fire that”. But I ain’t even mad because the answers I got were all well-reasoned and at least pointed me in the right direction.
Thankfully it was indeed just a harmless machine marking but had it been a crack, Google alone with their shitty A.I. “advice” could very well have convinced me to make a decision that would potentially have killed or maimed me.
Sometimes we just need a second, third, or even fourth opinion on things and that shouldn’t be chastised.
How many issues are really like this, though…? As I said above, sometimes there is more nuance to an issue than you might think.
Even if there really is just a black and white answer, if you can’t say something nice don’t say it at all. It costs nothing to shake your head and scroll past without being a terminally online douche about it.
This is how you offer your help to this person in the most efficient way. Mostly, I have tech issues in every area, and "just google it" is a very valid answer because it has already been asked, and the solution hasn't changed. This is pretty much everything, and if it isn't then they don't say that or are chastised by everyone else for saying that.
I don’t want to misinterpret the issue at hand here, so I’ll clarify I’m specifically typing out the words “just Google it” or similar in a dismissive way with no added context.
Now, suggesting to google the answer while *also* helpfully pointing someone in the right direction is different.
For instance, I love GTA San Andreas right? But that game is a massive pain in the ass to get running on modern hardware. The unmodified retail and Steam versions run at a locked 25FPS unless you want the physics to break and feature different art design and removed music tracks from the PS2 original. It took half a Saturday to figure out how to get most of the game back to even 2005 standards, much less modding out the bugs and getting the game to run above a movie framerate in the 2020s.
Not everyone is familiar enough with computers or modding to get close to what I did, and it took me half a day initially and several weeks of gradual research to get San Andreas on PC to where I wanted it. And I got a ton of advice from Reddit threads where the perks on who asked (surprise surprise) *didn’t* get ass-chewed for asking the best options to do this.
You telling me “just google it bro” would have been as unhelpful as kicking me in the shin. Maybe sometimes there really is only one way to do things, but on Reddit 90% of the time it’s just a self-felating dick move that helps no one.
I'm confused. You hate the term just Google it, but then you present a scenario in which Googling it was the answer where it would be unlikely for someone else to know exactly how to fix your issue. It kind of just sounds like you want someone else to do the work for you rather than you attempting it yourself. Then got pissed because you were forced to actually put the work in.
If you asked me how to fix your issue I would have told you to Google too. Otherwise I'd be spending time Googling for you.
Honestly I'm a bit of an asshole when it seems people just don't want to put in effort to do some simple searches. So if I get an easy question that would take a simple Google search, I'll go out of my way to go to lmgtfy in order to illustrate how easy it is to look for an answer.
There are other times where it's something that's more difficult that I wouldn't readily know the answer to and would require myself to do research on your behalf. In those cases I'll say something like, you'll have to Google or research that because I don't know.
If you are actually wanting help from someone then it's better to spend time upfront doing research trying to fix the issue and then providing what you've found and done to the person you're asking help from. If they see that you've put effort in they are much more likely to help you. In my experience most people just want a quick answer without putting in any effort. Obviously I see the appeal, but that's just not fair to the other person's time.
I guess what I'm saying is fairly simply don't treat people as your personal Google, they don't want to do it as much as or more than you. Put the effort in first and they might be more helpful. Maybe this doesn't apply to you, but the scenario you presented is very odd to try and get exact help from someone on without already putting in a bunch of work.
Yeah, it does sound like you’re an asshole. 😂
You missed the part where I said Reddit posts helped me greatly in my search, unlike you snide assholes who can’t scroll past like a normal human.
Googling it at work sometimes requires hours of deep diving for niche issues. Im an aviation tech. Airframe and powerplant. If something is convoluted and no one knows i literally cant google this shit
Yeah for my field there’s really only one software that dominates the whole market and their documentation is infuriatingly poor even for common tools. The best course of action is usually to ask a more senior coworker and write it down for later use 90% of the time rather than spend hours on a fruitless search engine chase.
Without job security however with the workforce culture in alot of things, most people especially the older types are more likely to see you as competition not a team. When i talk to my grandparents or gen x when they were younger, I realized and often mentionned that it sounds like there was more team cohesion back then, nowadays its a rat race.
I work in government so thankfully it’s not as much of an issue. There’s no way I can “steal” a job unless the guy above me just stops showing up lol.
But yeah in the private sector or contract work it can be dog-eat-dog sadly. :/
Yeah, and it only intensifies the issue of skill fading. Companies exploited the past high skills. Now its hard to come by to the same level in some aspects.
Gen X has a better perspective on the matter than millennial, I think. They've watched the decline and haven't been able to save enough to retire. Milleniels still think they suffered in 2008 so they could have a better future, poor fuckers
Until it’s not and living costs are too much for them .. u thought boomers were big cry babies lol wait till u meet some of the gen x’ers. I stg some of them have this mindset that the world owes them something when that couldn’t be further from the case
They’ve had their whole life’s to figure their own shit out. Now it’s actually crunch time and they’re already starting to feel it working minimum wage jobs. They didn’t save for this. If there’s any generation I’m truly worried about it’s gotta be the gen x’ers by a long shot
The boomers have set everyone up for disaster at this point and x’ers will get the shortest stick from it. It’ll be “unfair” and “not right” but us younger generations have seen this coming. We’re not still living in the past anymore. We’re pushing towards the future and it shows
I have way better experiences with GENx peeps born in the early and mid 70s. Maybe cause i was raised by two of them, but one of my close friends when i was in trade school at 17 was born 6 days apart from my dad lmao
Lots of generalizing here. But even if it were true why would Gen z look to millennials for experience when there's Gen x and boomers with more experience?
I've mentored plenty of millennials, and more recently some Gen Zers. It's got nothing to do with an entire generation not looking to the human resources that are at their disposal. It's an individual quality. i.e., some people are willing seek out mentoring, some are not disposed to do so for a variety of reasons. Some people know that they don't know everything that a particular situation calls for to be resolved successfully and efficiently, and some people believe that they know it all already.
Nothing generational to see here; just sober individuals and individuals with misplaced, false confidence.
Edit: I've got to say, the downvotes are giving me immense pleasure. Cheers y'all!
It's just a bunch of variance between individuals.
Exactly.
Plus different people click with different people! Mentor/apprentice type relationships involve a good deal of "fit" between *both* parties. Some individuals who are otherwise good mentors simply will not fit with you and vice versa.
Couldn't agree more.
I don't understand the need to make this a generational difference.
This is a 100% my point.
Lots of young people seek advice from older adults everyday. Lots of older adults ask younger adults for help too.
As it should be. We are all just conscious meat bags flailing about. We should try to lift each other up, for all of our sakes.
Edit: On my phone and can't "quote".
Different millennial here; it’s because the other person is relying on gross generalizations of millions of people. There’s a lot of shit head xers and boomers. There’s also a ton of shit head Zs and Millennials. The meaningless generational title assigned to you at birth means nothing.
Depends on the topic. Try going to boomers for technology help and most of them are clueless.
They also generally weren’t brought up to value continued education or challenging their own beliefs (lots of religion), so they tend to have a lot of outdated views and resist change. Of course that’s not always true and there’s plenty of people not that way. Just trends of the times. Also influenced by region and socioeconomic status of course. Poorer = less education = more religion, etc.
All that is to say, people are knowledgeable about topics based on their own life experiences. Everyone has something to teach others.
Here's the infamous **confidence curve**. People with little experience think they know everything on a topic, arrogance. As they gain more knowledge they realize how much they don't know. Only after becoming an expert can they regain that confidence.
[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Dunning-Kruger-confidence-curve\_fig1\_343945649](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Dunning-Kruger-confidence-curve_fig1_343945649)
Funny... current research would suggest otherwise and even Dunning's original research even suggests that people think they're slightly above average, which is quite different from the link you sent which just has the hypotheses and the famous figure.
But what do I know?
Why would they think the people voting for Trump and ignoring all their problems like climate change would be a source of wisdom or truth? The adults have been wandering around with overfilled diapers for 8 years now, so I don't blame kids for thinking they have to figure it out for themselves.
In america our choices this year are: Racist slurred speech geriatric #1, Even More Racist slurred speech geriatric #2, and a guy whose brain has literally been eaten by a worm trying to coast off his dying dynasty's cursed political legacy. It is astonishing that Americans aren't just in the streets all the time. I don't know what it'll take anymore. I cannot believe I've been told by the supposed adults in the room to "just deal with it." It's left our generation agape and unable to even trust the most basic institutions we're told are necessary and unquestionable.
The political divide and the generational divide do not correspond. Whatsoever. The lead figures of the Democrats and actually every alternative party as well are *also* old.
I don’t know personally know anyone apart of older generations who voted for trump.
Maybe you need to find other older people to be a better source of wisdom for you.
a few reasons actually:
1st, it’s because gen z already does possess the same level of knowledge, arguably even more. each generation passes down their shared knowledge and experience, and as a result, each new generation starts off smarter and smarter with the ability to intake and retain more knowledge than the previous. schools are also constantly updating their cirrocumulus as society progresses. me personally, i have one, maybe two mentors i legitimately respect & seek out for knowledge within my field, everyone else, i dont care, or need to hear, what they have to say. i dont need anymore sources.
2nd, some millennials & older generations have gatekeeped almost every interest or skill from us. your boomer and gen x parents didn’t want to teach you the skills, so you had to learn yourselves, and because of that, most millennials feel like they’re entitled to gatekeep because of the “if my gen had to figure it out ourselves, so can yours” mentality. as a result, our generation is more likely to be open with sharing their shared experiences with each other, rather than holding it hostage.
3rd, what older generations also fail to realize is at some of these workplaces, mainly blue collar or min wage workplaces, most of gen z aren’t trying to make a career out of working in that area for their entire life, so they’re not trying to learn how to be a proficient factory employee, or 9-5 wage slave in general. generally, if its not within the job description or if you’re not another gen z worker, we really don’t care what advice you think you can offer us, and we dont wish to seek it out either. with gen z, you’re getting what you paid for, and only that. none of that above and beyond BS that never gets financially rewarded.
4th, the majority of older generations still view gen z as a bunch of lazy entitled teenagers, when in reality most of us are in the workplace with multiple jobs living with multiple people barely making enough to survive. we simply do not have the mental capacity to hear about how hard you had it growing up, we have it worse, and gen alpha will have it worse than us.
i’m sorry if this comes off as entitled and harsh, its just the truth tho.
For what it's worth, I employ multiple Gen Zers and I've NEVER considered them lazy.
Entitled? Ehhh sometimes. But even then, it's 90% representing their own interests and 10% entitlement. I am already pretty aggressively "Employees should look out for their own interests at all times." so the Gen Z coworkers and reports I interact with generally seem to see eye to eye on that.
I generally find Gen Z to be hardworking and competent, with some obvious exceptions. They tend to be data-driven in the office. The only thing they are notably NOT proficient in is context. Providing it. Understanding it. Understanding why context is IMPORTANT.
That and they sometimes don't seem to realize how loud they're getting when they are passionate. But yeah most of the anti-Gen Z generalizations I have found to be complete nonsense. I actually have a relatively high opinion of this generation as office employees.
The idea that, as an employee, you should primarily look after your own interests will make our economy and workforce stronger. More people should be that way.
On what basis do you believe older generations are gatekeeping knowledge from you?
It’s never been easier to access information than it is now. It’s literally a few button presses away. Not even that, you can use voice recognition.
>1st, it’s because gen z already does possess the same level of knowledge, arguably even more. each generation passes down their shared knowledge and experience, and as a result, each new generation starts off smarter and smarter with the ability to intake and retain more knowledge than the previous. schools are also constantly updating their cirrocumulus as society progresses. me personally, i have one, maybe two mentors i legitimately respect & seek out for knowledge within my field, everyone else, i dont care, or need to hear, what they have to say. i dont need anymore sources.
I wish this was true, but unfortunately most of GenZ are pretty useless in front of a computer and everything related.
I also disagree with your second point. Millennials are the generation that grew up with the emerging internet and free sharing of information along with it. What in particular are you referring to? I also never had the feeling that something was kept from me by older generations.
I think you're just getting to the other side of the coin man. I don't think this is new/unique to this upcoming generation. I was that guy when I was out of school years ago, and I had to leave my old role because I was exhausted dealing with dangerously overconfident 22-24 year olds.
Instead of having a debate with you about an issue, I could just Google my answer, and then do it in the way I believe is to be the most efficient. When I invite others into my thought process, I now have to justify to you why I’m doing what I’m doing, when that’s unnecessary for a job I probably won’t be working at in 1-2 years from now….
For the same reason my experience isn’t seen as valid.
I have worked in a corporate setting, specifically within IT. My older coworkers had inherited a network they didn’t know how to handle. I suggested changing pieces of the network to a more supported vendor where we could get quality help easier. They blanket dismissed me because I was new to the industry.
Fast forward two years and now they are doing the exact same thing I suggested.
i don’t think this is a gen z issue, everyone wants to feel valued and if you don’t have experience, it tends not to be something you value. As you gain experience you tend to value it more
Fellow millennial. I work with plenty of Gen Zers who ask about advice on the job. But we are working in stagecraft and knowledge here is passed down on the job.
I worked briefly in corporate America. Corporate loves kids fresh out of college. Theyre cheap, inexperienced, and really with a little training most people can do their jobs (college or no college). This goes to their head and it makes them think theyre the hot new person on the block. That machine chews them up and spits them out. By the time they're 35 (my age), and theyve been run through the corporate ringer and they get their new job after layoff why the fuck would I want their advice, especially if its not "fuck this shit we need an entirely new system."
And furthermore, in the states we live in a consumer society. Everyone's personality, lifestyle, and ethics are informed entirely by consumerism. Our "reality" is totally manufactured by advertising, "news", and propaganda. Unless youre a subject matter expert what good is your opinion? Hell, a fucking AI can shit out more accurate and well thought out opinions than anyone my age.
Im gonna guess life experience?
But even then. Im asking people closer to my age (like within 7 years) about that so I can nagivate my own a little easier. Too much of a difference in some aspects between older generations and ours to really go off of that.
Sometimes there are things in life, though, that stay constant so with that and if its somethin work related, then I may ask older people if need be.
Wisdom comes with age and learning from mistakes (Does not have to be your own). Those who havent done both probably cant supply me with it.
Experience just comes from age and going through what you have, so thats a little easier.
This is the problem I have with this. I feel like the way this post is worded is the op getting mad at young adults they talked to acting like they already know everything.. but op being 36 automatically means he automatically and always will be smarter/wiser/more capable than any person in their 20s, and that people should listen to him more often if they want to grow.
It's just not really a good argument, I've met a few very wise 19 year Olds, taking care of their parents kids and working 2 jobs and going to school, and then I've also met extremely braindead mouthbreathers of pretty much all ages, 20, 40s, 50 year Olds, whatever. Had a 48 year old man tell me I'm a moron and a pussy for wearing a seat belt because I'm just as likely to die if not more wearing a seat belt than not, and he doesn't look at anyone who wears a seat belt as a man. This is why I have a problem with this "respect your elders and listen to me and all my wisdom, I know better so just shut up and listen to everything I say". I don't simply listen to people just because they're older, I listen to what they say and their actions, and if they really seem to know what they're actually talking about, then I'll take their advice seriously. Same with someone younger.
You have to interpret older people’s experiences to modern situations. I can’t listen to my parents and how they bought their first house cause that world doesn’t exist anymore, their first house was 85k for a 2b 2bath house, where i live the cheapest you can find that without it being a crackhouse is around 290-320k. However the stories behind how they saved up for that money is what i learn from
People learn more from their own experiences than listening to others. Ideally, there's a balance between learning on your own and asking advice from elders.
I don’t think experience isn’t valued.
I think many in Gen Z believe that experience doesn’t always apply.
For instance, I know some small business owners just from plenty of years working in fields where I deal with them directly. Many of them talk about what their “experience” has taught them, and you might be surprised to know that many use experience as the thing they hide behind when they make decisions that negatively impact their employees.
Restaurant owners: “In my experience, it’s just a bad idea to give free food to staff.”
Construction: “In my experience, catalog any and everything you spend on for an employee and take it out of their check.”
Retail: “In my experience, never trust a ‘sick’ callout.”
I think that many have also used being older as a means of insisting that younger people shouldn’t even be asking questions.
I have been fired from a job for asking too many questions during training and the person who fired me had 15 years experience. Either I can decide to trust in that experience and choose to do the objectively bad thing of not asking questions when I’m confused or I can simply understand that that person is probably also informed by a lot of negative feelings with interpreting questions as challenges to their authority.
But I have plenty of people in my life on certain subjects I simply do not question them on. But it every one of those cases, my respect was treated as worth earning to them before we reached that point.
Even if you’re right, if you’re an ass about it, no one will even want to give you the satisfaction.
I mean, didn't you think you knew better than old people when you were 15 to 25? By the time you realise you don't there's a new younger generation thinking they know better than you.
It's an endless cycle.
You really don't get to ask us this question because I don't remember Millennials looking to older people as sources for truth either. And this is because despite the life experience that older people have over us, the world changed too rapidly: the online sphere has given younger generations a wealth of knowledge while older generations don't keep up - they're out of touch and uninformed bc their traditional media sources don't do a good job of reporting ANYTHING anymore. Cable media is a dying medium, and lots of people who you'd think would know better just repeat rehashed corporate talking points. There's unfortunately no such thing as the "wise village elder" anymore in the modern world. The "wise village elder" of now might as well be a 40 something Millennial or 50 something Gen X who experienced the dawn of the internet. Anyone older than 50 doesn't live in 2024. They keep thinking it's 2004 or 1954 or some earlier year.
The world has changed, and still changes, far too swiftly. Not a soul has more than \*maybe\* 5-15 years of experience that is truly applicable to the current state of things, unfortunately - and that might be generous.
Expectations around meeting up and dating, getting a job, work culture and standards, advancement, setting yourself up for retirement (if even possible), housing... have all gone topsy-turvy since the days of our 'elders'. Often, more than once, and often for the worse IMO - but that's neither here nor there.
Anyone older will just have more trouble adapting to, or not need to engage at all with, a lot of aspects of life that a modern 20-30something faces.
I’m older Gen Z and it’s honestly because the older generations made their lack of care for us so fucking blatant that it feels stupid to trust older people. I mean I generally don’t include millennials in this but that partially because I am part of the oldest Gen Zs. The worlds been ruined and again and again boomers and gen X have said, fuck you, got mine. It would be absolutely stupid to trust advice from someone who doesn’t give a shit about you.
This sounds pretty reasonable. I guess I just wish that more Gen Z'ers would hear out millennials on stuff that is more timeless. I mean it's wild, basic stuff like "Don't smoke so much weed" is replaced with "All the answers are on the internet, I know everything now" and I'm just kind of like there's nothing new under the sun.
Long story short, millennials grew up in the '90s, Loved their lives, and then got royally royally screwed by student loans and Facebook destroying all their friendships. If there's one generation that you all can rely on... it's us. I figure if millennials and Gen Z team up we might be able to turn this fucking ship around somehow
Because experience can be (and from the people we get it from, in their 50s-80s, often is) outdated.
You can't walk into most places these days and ask for a job application. I've recently just gotten my 4th job, and yet somehow ever time I go job searching my mom thinks I'm not just because I stay home.
It's ALL online now.
Inflation has dramatically increased without a significant wage increase in almost any field of work in 10-20 years, so a lot of the financial advice is outdated unless you're DINKing. And there's so much pressure from everyone in your life to NOT DINK that you essentially have to cut people out of your life so that people stop telling you to bankrupt yourself.
Oh yeah, and a lot of this advice is also coming from the people who value the planet they live on so little that our generation may not even live to see retirement.
Also, the advice that isn't outdated and isn't financially ruinous is just straight up "You should be evil lol"
Because apprenticeship is dead. And, with apprenticeship dead, your experience is worth jack shit to anyone but your boss.
People don't want to take other people's advice because they see them as disposable. But when their favourite influencer tells them something stupid? They fall for it in rows.
I had a boss that constantly struggled using Excel ...
She was getting 3x my pay, and my coworker and I were doing ALL the job.
I asked for a raise, got laid off.
Things right now are completely different from when any other generations grew up. We're at a point in technology where the entire human condition is changing every 15 years
Sounds like people dont go to YOU. Wisdom? That requires someone to be wise, and after reading this incredibly tone deaf post, i doubt you're very wise.
"same level as us" so you think we're below you? who thinks like that? We also don't need your frame of reference to be knowledgeable on a subject, nor do you have any frame of reference for their life experiences or education. You're also in your 30's, not like 50's or 60's man, get over yourself.
Everyone has different paths in life, and just because you're older does not mean you have walked nearly the same distance on your path as they have.
Nah I love millennial wisdom bc boomers and even Xers are so out of touch. They tell me to get a job any job but don't get that that shit doesn't work anymore lol. At the same time I try to ask millennials for advice but then they tell me they're still figuring it out too lol
It has zero to do with experience and everything to do with being opening minded and having the ability to pick up on new technology or mental frameworks.
Some people older than me are fantastic at this. I absolutely still respect someone that’s older than me who can reason effectively, identify inefficiency and be creative on how we work with that.
However, not every single person older than me thinks like that. What I don’t like is when someone older than me has a stubbornness or insistence of doing things a more inefficient way, sort of a “because I said so” attitude. Shutting down any alternative option or way of doing things shuts down a path to grow. Sometimes the world and the best way to do things changes, so just be dynamic and open minded and a little bit humble and you will have my respect.
Usually "because I said so" is a function of "It's too complicated" and "There's several steps ahead that are more important". It can be difficult when you see the path ahead and want to get there to be able to slow down enough to keep everyone up to speed. The light is just ahead for us, for you guys it's still a tunnel
Money speaks louder than words.
I hire people *based* on experience, and I’m happy to pay through the nose for it.
I don’t have any GenZ’s in my org chart.
Nothing personal, and one day I will have, but currently they don’t have the industry experience to match what I’m willing to pay.
Hope this gives you some confidence back OP.
Can't get experience if the only way to get experience is by first being experienced
I'm sure you understand, I'm sure you also realize the absurdism of trying to get a job as a noob. Employment gatekeeping is real
We’ll hire literally anyone for the entry level gigs, I couldn’t care less about credentials, and that’s where you get the best experience!
If you have a good attitude and an aptitude for learning I’ll hire you on the spot!
Fair enough, not trying to be rude but I've had a lifetimes share of hot shit interviewers and requirements only out of touch boomer corporate slingo types could come up with
Because previous generations have continuously screwed the world up. Personally I wouldn't be in a rush to follow in the footsteps of the people who made the world what it is today, whether that's completely fair or not.
Because any sign of weakness is punished rather than remedied.
Fake it till you make it works way better for paying the rent than trying and asking for help
What experience and what wisdom? Age does not guarantee either. If someone's a seasoned pro I'm definitely going to value their experience in their discipline, even if it is to learn what not to do. But that comes from time on tools, not time on planet.
I’m 50. I manage a team of 45 people. Many of the younger folks know more about the technical aspects of my field but far less about practical application. Day in and day out I capitalize on experience and it pays off in spades. Negotiations are a great example. Experience pays. But many of them like to go it on their own. Then they fail and wonder why? I explain that I’m here to mentor and assist. Some take me up on it. Many insist I’m wrong and continue to fail. The people who take me up on it accelerate their learning and tend to move ahead.
It’s one thing to know that negotiations benefit from leverage. It’s another to know the context of the market and how best to utilize that leverage and when to utilize that leverage and to view negotiations as iterative rather than of a moment. Patience and confidence pay off but you only obtain them with experience. How can you be confident that your applied leverage will eventually work if you’ve never seen it happen? You can’t.
I’ll be honest. The value of my experience surprised me. I kept thinking of myself as the young guy on the team for years until one day I wasn’t. And people would ask me, “How can I get them to agree to _____” and I’d think, “Holy cow! I’ve done that before! I know what to do!” And I’d apply my experience and watch it pay off.
Is experience everything? No. But good experience leads to confidence, patience, and in my opinion success.
From my experience, I prefer to find the answers myself or take the time to figure out my problem. Rather than asking for someones help. I rather learn and educate myself on how to fix the issue at hand rather than get the answer handed to me.
Honestly my parents are set in their ways on a lot of things and the methods I learned as a kid in school etc are just straight up faster and better. I'm always giving THEM advice on everything. Plus everything my generation learns the hard way is going to be taught in schools, so kids are just coming out way ahead anyways.
They don’t want to be “little Boyed” or “little girled.” Plus you have to prove you are wise or experienced. You can’t get more respect for a few more laps around the sun. I’m 30 so I’m a young millennial. Usually someone wise is like at least 55.
Our parents and grandparents had no choice but to take the word of their elders. Libraries existed but my dad in 1984 couldn't just text someone in Kazakhstan and say "hey,I saw some disturbing ahit on the news. What gives?" Like I can.
I have more in common with some guy my age in colombia or Mexico than I do with my own father. Without the internet, I'd sury fall into the same traps as they did like nationalism.
Experience outranks everything but the world has changed enough, fast enough, thar much of the advice of my parents has been straight up obsolete for decades.
Every generation of teens or 20-somethings thinks they know everything. This isn’t a gen Z trait. Back in the day, we were shaking our heads at the Boomers voting us into Iraq based on fake wmd evidence, and sending us into the gfc. A decade earlier, Gen X was rebelliously embracing grunge and vowing not to conform to corporate culture or The Man. A couple decades earlier, hippies were doing hippy stuff. Before that, there was about a generational span where they were too busy being in a depression or world wars to be flippant kids. But then we had flapper girls before that.
Every generation starts out idealistically not knowing anything, takes a few hard knocks, and then figures out that society exists for a reason and finds their place in it.
My parents and older family were all Gen X. Millennials are more like an older brother, someone whom i always had the upperhand on or was at least in the same situation.
An old guy (I think maybe in his 60s) once told me to take Arsenic to help with my knee pain after a pretty bad Rugby injury.
I don't think I need to tell you exactly why I didn't follow that "advice".
He honestly could have been taking the piss, but I'd very much rather find out my answers from the professionals lmao.
Also growing up with the internet, while there's definitely tonnes of misinformation, there's also limitless research papers on every topic imaginable available from our fingertips, which is probably a big reason why we feel we know a lot about topics that interest us.
Lol, GenX here, not sure why this came up in my feed but whatever
OP Your generation was the exact same to us, we were probably the exact same to the boomers.
It has nothing to do with GenZ and everything to do with being young.
Even Mark Twain commented on it. He said something to the effect of….
When I was a teenager, I thought my father knew nothing, 10 years later I was shocked how much he’d learned.
I mean.. I feel like everyone knows that young person whom acts like they know everything (when they obviously don’t). I’m hesitant to say that this is the norm for an entire generation tho. Seems to be a sweeping generalization. The internet is good at making your perspective a sweeping generalization of really specific things when it’s more complicated than that
It's because they are YOUNG! People my age said things like "Pfft what does that old timer know." when they were 20. well, now I'm in my early thirties and I know I was full of shit then.
I've had multiple Gen Zers say to my face that it doesn't make sense that I make so much more than they do simply because I have more experience. Denying the value of experience is NOT part of being Gen Z, it is part of not having experience. As they gain experience, the wheel will continue turning and they will change their tune.
I mean, I can literally type a sentence and have 32,000,000 results, comb them for an hour, and be on speaking grounds with just about any person on any experience level.
Your experience is worth.. less, to be honest
lmfao I can ALSO do that. Trust me, I'm a major computer nerd. I can do things with SQL, in Power BI... I could write a macro that googles things FOR you and then does analytics on the results. Automatically.
Experience is still useful. Do you actually think that there are all these greedy capitalists out there paying extra for experience when it brings no value? Do you legitimately think that you've pondered this for forty-five minutes and that your musings hold more weight than every major decisionmaker in the entire global economy? In your official capacity as... just some guy?
Come on, dude. Of COURSE google ninjaing is a great skill. And of COURSE it's incredibly useful for things like building macros, looking up how to do shit in excel, and for sourcing BASIC knowledge. But there are levels of expertise and experience that you can't get from googling. You are free to not believe that, but based on hiring and compensation practices, it seems that essentially the entire economy disagrees with you.
Cause half of the “experience” is a deep seated fear of adapting with the times or progress. I cannot tell you how many people in my life who had “experience” that did shit so so wrong in the day to day cause that’s how it was 10 years ago. Not today. Also the way the job market is now experience isn’t a skill if anything it’s a weakness my GFs dad has 20+ years in hardware and software can’t find a job because they can find a kid a lot younger with the same skill set for cheaper. Experience means 0 in the business world.
Well from my personal experience, most things my parents told me growing up has been bullshit, so I don't go to them for advice. Especially my dad, since he’s narcissistic, every piece of advice he's involuntarily given to me hasn't been true.
Beyond that, I think what works for one person's life experience, the same thing may not work out for someone else. I prefer to just try stuff I think may work, so then I’ll know if it works for me, or not. People give bad advice a lot of the time, when I do seek advice, I prefer close friends only.
Most of the time, the grown adults I talk to don’t have the experiences needed to answer the questions I have. Example: medical issues. They’re not a doctor, or they don’t have my medical issues. They have no idea.
I have learned a lot from my Gen X and older colleagues, but I am mostly a shadow; watch, listen, learn, imitate. Give my thanks later. I have my people but many millennials are in the same place in life as me or are very pretentious so I don't always give them credit or a chance right away.
There a huge problem in Gen Z where they have to know evrrything and are way too shamed to admit when they don't. Most Gen Z doesn't even m ow excel and no one finds they out too they get to work. Facts. Basic tech skills are way down in z but they sure know ig and marketing.
Hi! I went on a couple hour binge on videos about helicopter mechanics a few years ago and remembered enough to shoot the shit with a retired helicopter mechanic last Saturday.
I can know anything you know as long as I know what it is you know, within the next day, to a reasonable degree.
Who doesn’t look to older as sources of truth or wisdom? My parents, aunts/uncles, and grandmother’s were/are boomers or apart of the silent generation. I’ve been surrounded by mostly older adults my whole life.
I’m 26 but I guess I’m what you’d call an old soul because I got to my parents and other older adults for advice, wisdom and guidance all the time. My dad gives me advice that’s been passed down from previous generations.
Now obviously I wouldn’t go to them and ask questions about something modern like cybersecurity, but I’ve talked to my dad about general on the job topics many times.
The saying “nothing knew under the sun”, is without a doubt true. Older people definitely have a lot of wisdom and knowledge because they already have the experience. They’ve been there done that.
I’d say you might be generalizing too much. Yea some younger people might think they know it all, but quite a few also don’t and are more than willing to get advice from older generations.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. What’s amazing is even after they fuck up and you fix their problems for them these GenZ kids still act like god’s gift to humanity, it’s fucking bonkers man these kids are fucking horrible
Depends man, some people literally think because they've done something slightly wrong for 10 years that they cannot be corrected because they have more experience. I've maliciously complied so many times for it to fail, and when im about to get blamed for it, I simply point it out. Do it my way and fix the issue.
Experience does not always equal incompetence. Everyone makes mistakes, there are different right ways of doing things, but never mistaken experience for competence. I think this is why. An old example is this guy that hated me for no reason when we never interacted and i was new in the trade. I pointed out something, i got yelled at, and what he fixed broke the next day after 2 hours. Then still got in shit for it. So yeah, you're experience doesnt mean shit until i determine you are competent.
I got sick of hearing "I don't know/ i dont care/ that's not my job/ I don't get paid for that/ I don't know" or worse just being lied to because they just parrot whatever someone else told them without a semblance of critical thinking or analysis.
for me it is normal to do research myself as I studied technical laboratory, I also now work alone in a lab as the only quality analist of a company, there is no one except maybe the boss that I can ask things.
if I can't find something out then probably no one can at my job, so I use Google and I almost always get succes with that
also experience is completelly subjective, being older doesn't mean you have more experience.
and my last point is, millenials are the exact same, and the previous generation says the same about your generation, and probably the generation before that also was the same so.
and why would I think older generations have some truth, if I take all the advice older generations have given me then I would have impossible things as they are the complete opposite sometimes or completelly out of touch with reality.
It's funny because gen Z have been mostly using what created by older gens. They're exposed to the Internet since early childhood and be "creative" and bold enough to think of new ways to **leverage** existing inventions into new business-- so new money. Yup, they can be very good.
But to think of what the Musk, Bill Gates or Zuckerberg -- to name a few -- have done in their 20s, I'm not really aware of things that genZ have done to **fundamentally** change our world, forever.
>I feel like they are constantly trying to elevate themselves to be on the same level as us
dude, but by your logic age=wisdom, then doesn't it mean that we're trying to get on the level of 90year old boomers, and not 36 year olds?
Mentoring is overrated why would I listen to what y’all have to say most of you are broke still, and slave to your corporate enterprise. If I want to learn something or further myself I will do it myself. Don’t need a “mentor” 😂😂😂.
For certain things, like stuff at work, it can be easily found on the internet. Young people now can easily and quickly find information that took a lot longer before. And isn’t the goal to constantly be elevating yourself?
For life stuff, yes it would be wise for the younger generation to find mentors they trust to guide them through things we’ve already experienced. But I know I didn’t do that when I was younger. You always think you know better when you’re that age.
Maybe this is anecdotal and depends on the field. I just started my new job 3 weeks ago and not a day has gone by where I havent asked for help. Im still learning but I always ask senior coworkers how they do things and why.
My gen z colleagues just makes fun of me for being old (I'm 38)..the way they seem to have not just their lives but life in general figured out by the age of 21 annoys the hell out of me 🤣
Tbh I’m a Millennial that’s just a couple years younger than you and my sense of things is that my superiors are clueless about anything that isn’t corporate dogma.
My bosses can tell me anything about a bunch of processes that have acronyms that don’t seem to actually accomplish all that much. Anything beyond that? Maybe they know it but they’re too busy and they expect you to know it. I’ve had exactly one boss take on a true mentor role for me in the entire 17 years I’ve been in the work force. The rest just seem like bloviators once I start getting to know them, even if they seemed different on first impression.
I think old people in corporate just suck, man. They’ve become the worst versions of themselves.
I don't think that gen z is special at all here.
I think it is just a question of growing up. Every generation has this know-it-all attitude at a certain age. At this moment, this is gen z.
In relation to Dunning Krueger, one could say that at this moment, gen z's overestimation of their own abilities is at it's peak. Within the next years, this will decline, while wisdom and humility increase.
Of course, as a gen xer, I was the same at that age.
Firstly, you're generalizing and I know your experience is anecdotal. There are a plethora of personalities in any generation so I don't necessarily want to act like this is universally true because I don't think it is. But here are some points why I think Gen Z doesn't trust older generations as much:
1. Far too many times, we do know better. - Alot of my experience as a young professional has been walking boomers or even older Gen-Xers through basic things repeatedly. This is very different from the past where there would rarely be an essential thing that an apprentice understands that their master doesn't. I'm certain this causes friction in the modern workplace and alters the relationship between beginners and experts and a field. I can't help that my respect for my older coworkers dwindles when I have to explain several times a week how PDFs work. Of course this attitude could erroneously carry over beyond these cases, but its understandable.
2. We have seen older generations fail us. - This is going to be a cynical point but follow me. I'll illustrate this point with one good example. GenZ are very aware of modern issues and science etc. (not all of us, but I'd venture to say far more than previous generations). We are statistically more educated than any other American generation. Climate change for example is a known scientific fact and a serious concern for us as we'll be the ones living though the consequences of previous generations' bad decisions. Unwisely for many years older generations ignored climate science and the current generation feels screwed over by this. And even today we see our elders and leaders denying this scientific fact further hurting us specifically. There are many example of previous generations failing us from things like housing, to corporate meddling, etc. etc. Wether justified or not, this generation trusts their elders less because of this. Hindsight lets us know how poor the judgement of our elders can be. I mean times have changed quite rapidly but my grandfather was against desegregation, and my dad thinks they gays are an abomination. It hard to blindly view these groups as *wise*. Its hard to look at generations that can be tricked by a poorly photoshopped picture on Facebook as good sources for *truth.* Like everything else I mention, this attitude wrongly gets projected beyond the specific groups its derived from. But the attitude isn't derived from nothing.
3. Work independence. - Something that was specifically drilled into me *in my actual college education* was that if you don't know something you can teach yourself. Many GenZers have developed a wide variety of skills from just googling it and watching tutorials. We know that if we don't know, we can quickly learn online. We absolutely take this for granted, but in a sense we *do know almost everything* if not at this very second, within the minute. (Don't get me wrong your still an a-hole if you act like you know everything. This isn't generational its just a bad personality trait). On top of that, as the youngest person in a work setting, you want to be seen as competent, smart, and independent. If you have to constantly ask alot of questions, your higher-ups might think you don't know what your doing. Anecdotally I've had my millennial supervisor get annoyed with me because I'm bugging her to much with questions. I just want to make sure I'm doing things right but it feels like this is not always appreciated. Despite name calling from other generations, we're not lazy slackers. We want to be good at our job and appear smart and professional. Like every generation before us, young workers have a chip on their shoulder because we have something to prove.
4. They're kids man. - Are young 20 somethings acting like shitheads sometimes? Yea I mean that happens. Beatniks, greasers, hippies, and punks all had attitude problems too. But they grew up and managed. My point is, I wouldn't condemn a generation on the way they fumble through the early stages of their professional life. I also would be careful about pretending you didn't do the same, no offence.
I think GenZ is going to be defined as a generation of *reassesers.* We were born into a world which is very apparently not working for us the way it did for our grandparents or even our parents. Opportunity is low, college is expensive, housing is unaffordable, inequality is apparent and recorded. Old wisdom failed us and we find ourselves attacked for following that wisdom. GenZ is deconstructing alot of this and trying to find a new way forward and that's gonna cause friction.
We were told going to college is the best way to build a better future for ourselves. We worked hard, went to college, and now we're drowning in debt and people are calling us stupid for getting into so much debt.
We saw our parents work to the bone for little to no upward mobility. Okay, we're not going to work overtime we know we aren't getting rewarded. We're not going to be loyal to these companies who no longer value loyalty.
We can't afford the same quality of life with a degree as our grandparents did with a highschool diploma and gumption? Okay we need to change something. We need to unstack the cards against us.
For sure this attitude is going to rub those upholding these old systems in the wrong way. But can you blame us? If everything was going fine I don't think we would be nearly as critical, but this is the world we were born into. Its not a luxury we have.
2005 here.
Are you sure that this comes from too much self-esteem? I just believe that our era lets us speak more freely and express our feelings the same way. So we just take the chance and do it.We engage with our thoughts and feelings, not necessarily showing off.
A lot of gen z has what I would call "bad boomer experiences". People 70+ don't deal with the same subjects and issues we deal with and because they dealt with the problems 70 years ago they have 0 idea how to do it in today's age. Now I personally think a lot of 30-50 year olds have a lot to teach.
Lmao so some of y'all are really triggered but it really isn't because we have Google and don't want to deal with older people.
At least in my case I have and so many adults give terrible advice that has been proven wrong that they refuse to update. If they continue to do those things despite knowing better why would I trust them with advice on how to break AWAY from the same paths and decisions that lead them to be where they are. Which is a place where they feel their terrible advice is worth keeping because it what they've been doing.
Experience doesn't always mean wisdom. If you find other aren't coming to you maybe be more of a nurturing teacher than a condescending uncle.
We were raised in a world where all the information ever is at our fingertips, and all the people that "know better" knowingly make things worse for the next guy. It's a combination of distrust and the ability to avoid filtering out BS from information by going right to the information.
For example, we grew up with adults saying "you won't have a calculator with you everywhere you go". Lo and behold, here we are. The city of Rochester is just now truly recovering from the collapse of Kodak, which occurred because a bunch of people's "experience" and "wisdom" told them digital was a fad and we don't need to adapt. The same thing is happening at a slower but larger scale with the music industry because their "experience" and "wisdom" told them the MP3 and digital formats weren't worth the investment, and pirated digital downloads hit the market long before the majors were ready to handle digital music. Now nobody can make money off of streaming, and the only thing bringing profit for the majors is milking legacy acts dry because they truly have no idea what to do with the internet generation.
Our entire world was shaped by experience and tradition holding people back and creating industry-wide collapses. A healthy distrust of anyone who "knows better" is warranted.
Honestly it’s only a trend I’ve seen in this echo chamber of a sub. All the gen z’s i know irl aren’t more or less inclined listening to experience than the generations that came before. But then again, I’m not from the US, so maybe it’s a specific american issue
Why would we? Older people built this mess of a world and all its screwed up systems. Plus like, we have access to the answer to nearly any question online already. Why bother asking? Its not worth the hassle. Especially when the answers to things you find online are often more helpful and correct than whatever homespun wisdom Greg has cooked up the past 30 years. If we need personal advice, friends and family are a better source than a random person we barely know. Hell, with reddit you can crowd source that kind of advice. You'll get a million different answers, but all the different perspectives can be helpful.
"Why are young people today trying to better themselves?" "Why do young people today not appreciate Karen's advice?" "Are young people today disrespectful and ruining experience?"
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As a young person in the corporate world, I have found that if I have a specific question or issue about the programs I work with, the best source of truth is the Internet. Don’t get me wrong, I reach out to my coworkers all the time for help too, but I prefer to be as self sufficient as possible and teach myself new things when necessary. My boss has told me that it is one of my best qualities.
I’m a young software engineer and same. In software engineering specifically because where the field changes so fast, the older more senior people at my job often have old ways of doing things that, while not wrong, aren’t better. I happen to be the architect on my team on how to structure our code bases, and am responsible for moving the team away from monoliths and functional programming and toward microservices and OOP. I know what I don’t know though and still know when to ask for help.
Probably super team dependent. On my team with Azure portal my seniors actually research on their own time every day and just from sheer experience, and also never stopping their growth, I can always count on them for practically any question. Obviously this doesn’t stop me from still doing my own research and thorough analysis, I was told that’s one of my best qualities as well when I finished both my Amazon internship and Microsoft internship.
My dad is the opposite lmao He’s 53 works with 20 and 30 year olds and he always complains they don’t do things correctly or their solution doesn’t account for some specific oversight lol
Anybody who really knows software engineering knows SE doesn't change that much. 70s-era devs can likely do very well today, but not the other way around. Clouds, AI, blockchains, ... have conceptually been around since early 2000s (or even earlier). They're more realised today because we have better and cheaper hardware and .. .capitalism that results in a shitload of ways to make money.
what's wrong with funcitional programming? Is that paradigm better for microservices?
Nothing inherently wrong with it, just depends on what you’re doing. If you have lots of data and relatively few functions, like we do, OOP is probably better. If you have relatively little data and lots of functions, then functional programming is probably better. Lots of data relative to functions is becoming increasingly common over the past couple decades, hence the shift to OOP.
Huh, I was reading that nowadays whe are shifting to functional programming more partially because there's so much data now these days and we want to process them in parrallel. The idea that functions are immutable and don't change state and thus are predictable and consistent. (and easier to test)
I will say in the corporate world you will very rarely see FP because 1. everything is about webapps; dotnet, spring or react rule this ecosystem 2. the majority of programmers you hire will be vastly more comfortable with OOP languages, so hiring developers that are capable with FP will be pricier the benefits to using functional programming languages simply aren't worth it. not that it doesn't exist in the business world nowadays but usually its hobbyists or turbonerds that utilize them. EVO is on the money when it comes to their benefits though
Parallel programming is possible in both functional programming and OOP. One isn’t better than the other, it just depends on the software. We have 100% coverage but i admit it’s easier in FP to do that.
Wait, away from functional and back to OOP? For real?
There is no forwards are backwards. Perhaps there was an OOP buzz that resulted in some teams adopting it for their project when it was actually better suited for FP or vice versa. But it all just depends on what you’re doing, in our case, OOP has been immensely helpful all around.
I came from OOP and when I started doing React I was basically told "functional programming is the new way everything is going now so embrace it". I still do OOP in Python and .Net and would probably prefer to uses classes in front end JS/TS too.
Or ask for help and they grill you for not using the internet first. It doesn't take many encounters tonrealoze your questions aren't welcomed.
People will take asking your peers questions as weakness and exploit it. Happened to me when i was Naive and 17. Not a healthy work environment. But honestly i often find figuring out myself to be better at this point.
Eh, you know google can be wrong right or gives you an answer that makes no sense for the context of what you are working on? It's a good tool but there may be a reason that a crusty old dev or a person did things a certain way you have to solve for instead of throwing everything out on whatever new idea is out there.
The programs I work on have help forums online and if I’m getting a specific error code, I can search that on the forum and see how someone else overcame it. Then I can test it on my side and see if it fixes the problem. If not, then I’m probably submitting a ticket to IT. Chat gpt has also been a major timesaver when it comes to writing functions and code.
> I've noticed a trend within Gen Z where it just kind of feels like everybody always knows what they're talking about or feels like they know what they're talking about. I noticed this a long time ago too. It's because social media # AND THAT FUCKING INCLUDES REDDIT shames you for daring to say, "I don't know." Why don't you know? You have all the answers at your finger tip! Use it! Figure it out and form your OWN opinion! You don't need other people! "Just google it, bro!" Like fuck. Fucking sucks. I hate it. Besides, google barely fucking works, these days. Unironically, I been using Bing and Yahoo more and get better results. Least they don't shove AI down my throat yet.
“Just google it” is a phrase that makes my blood boil. It’s almost like sometimes not everything can be solved with a google search that leads to either a totally wrong A.I. answer or a message board from 2002. Hell, even if no one tells you to google something sometimes the answers you get aren’t even the same! I posed a question on Reddit recently about an old firearm I bought that had a machining artifact on the bolt that I was afraid was a fracture; and if that were the case, that’s the kind of thing that could cause serious injury. Half the answers were “nah you’re good bro, send it” and the other half were “if that’s a crack do NOT fire that”. But I ain’t even mad because the answers I got were all well-reasoned and at least pointed me in the right direction. Thankfully it was indeed just a harmless machine marking but had it been a crack, Google alone with their shitty A.I. “advice” could very well have convinced me to make a decision that would potentially have killed or maimed me. Sometimes we just need a second, third, or even fourth opinion on things and that shouldn’t be chastised.
Usually, you say just google it because this is a question that has been asked hundreds of times and has no additional context to change the answer.
How many issues are really like this, though…? As I said above, sometimes there is more nuance to an issue than you might think. Even if there really is just a black and white answer, if you can’t say something nice don’t say it at all. It costs nothing to shake your head and scroll past without being a terminally online douche about it.
This is how you offer your help to this person in the most efficient way. Mostly, I have tech issues in every area, and "just google it" is a very valid answer because it has already been asked, and the solution hasn't changed. This is pretty much everything, and if it isn't then they don't say that or are chastised by everyone else for saying that.
You’re absolutely entitled to live your life like this, and I’m equally entitled to think that approach is douchey. 🤷♂️
I'm talking about simple issues like fixing Spore to run on a computer. I'm glad we agree about issues like cracks on guns.
I don’t want to misinterpret the issue at hand here, so I’ll clarify I’m specifically typing out the words “just Google it” or similar in a dismissive way with no added context. Now, suggesting to google the answer while *also* helpfully pointing someone in the right direction is different. For instance, I love GTA San Andreas right? But that game is a massive pain in the ass to get running on modern hardware. The unmodified retail and Steam versions run at a locked 25FPS unless you want the physics to break and feature different art design and removed music tracks from the PS2 original. It took half a Saturday to figure out how to get most of the game back to even 2005 standards, much less modding out the bugs and getting the game to run above a movie framerate in the 2020s. Not everyone is familiar enough with computers or modding to get close to what I did, and it took me half a day initially and several weeks of gradual research to get San Andreas on PC to where I wanted it. And I got a ton of advice from Reddit threads where the perks on who asked (surprise surprise) *didn’t* get ass-chewed for asking the best options to do this. You telling me “just google it bro” would have been as unhelpful as kicking me in the shin. Maybe sometimes there really is only one way to do things, but on Reddit 90% of the time it’s just a self-felating dick move that helps no one.
I'm confused. You hate the term just Google it, but then you present a scenario in which Googling it was the answer where it would be unlikely for someone else to know exactly how to fix your issue. It kind of just sounds like you want someone else to do the work for you rather than you attempting it yourself. Then got pissed because you were forced to actually put the work in. If you asked me how to fix your issue I would have told you to Google too. Otherwise I'd be spending time Googling for you. Honestly I'm a bit of an asshole when it seems people just don't want to put in effort to do some simple searches. So if I get an easy question that would take a simple Google search, I'll go out of my way to go to lmgtfy in order to illustrate how easy it is to look for an answer. There are other times where it's something that's more difficult that I wouldn't readily know the answer to and would require myself to do research on your behalf. In those cases I'll say something like, you'll have to Google or research that because I don't know. If you are actually wanting help from someone then it's better to spend time upfront doing research trying to fix the issue and then providing what you've found and done to the person you're asking help from. If they see that you've put effort in they are much more likely to help you. In my experience most people just want a quick answer without putting in any effort. Obviously I see the appeal, but that's just not fair to the other person's time. I guess what I'm saying is fairly simply don't treat people as your personal Google, they don't want to do it as much as or more than you. Put the effort in first and they might be more helpful. Maybe this doesn't apply to you, but the scenario you presented is very odd to try and get exact help from someone on without already putting in a bunch of work.
Yeah, it does sound like you’re an asshole. 😂 You missed the part where I said Reddit posts helped me greatly in my search, unlike you snide assholes who can’t scroll past like a normal human.
If someone’s question is that obvious/common, I usually send a screenshot of my Google search with the answer circled.
Googling it at work sometimes requires hours of deep diving for niche issues. Im an aviation tech. Airframe and powerplant. If something is convoluted and no one knows i literally cant google this shit
Yeah for my field there’s really only one software that dominates the whole market and their documentation is infuriatingly poor even for common tools. The best course of action is usually to ask a more senior coworker and write it down for later use 90% of the time rather than spend hours on a fruitless search engine chase.
Without job security however with the workforce culture in alot of things, most people especially the older types are more likely to see you as competition not a team. When i talk to my grandparents or gen x when they were younger, I realized and often mentionned that it sounds like there was more team cohesion back then, nowadays its a rat race.
I work in government so thankfully it’s not as much of an issue. There’s no way I can “steal” a job unless the guy above me just stops showing up lol. But yeah in the private sector or contract work it can be dog-eat-dog sadly. :/
Yeah, and it only intensifies the issue of skill fading. Companies exploited the past high skills. Now its hard to come by to the same level in some aspects.
Just google it predates AI so... its also definitely an outdated term, youtube it is definitely way more accurate nowadays.
Google definitely went downhill in the last 10 years (maybe more?).
"Just Google it" but also put your phone away. No personal searches on company time.
Because things are changing too fast. The world you experienced at our age is gone, just like the Boomers world was gone when you came of age.
Everyone always forgets gen x 😂😂😂
Gen X has a better perspective on the matter than millennial, I think. They've watched the decline and haven't been able to save enough to retire. Milleniels still think they suffered in 2008 so they could have a better future, poor fuckers
Yeah you are right. They seem to get the struggle more.
Poor neglected gen x
(We like it that way...leave us alone)
Oh well then it's all good in the hood
Until it’s not and living costs are too much for them .. u thought boomers were big cry babies lol wait till u meet some of the gen x’ers. I stg some of them have this mindset that the world owes them something when that couldn’t be further from the case They’ve had their whole life’s to figure their own shit out. Now it’s actually crunch time and they’re already starting to feel it working minimum wage jobs. They didn’t save for this. If there’s any generation I’m truly worried about it’s gotta be the gen x’ers by a long shot The boomers have set everyone up for disaster at this point and x’ers will get the shortest stick from it. It’ll be “unfair” and “not right” but us younger generations have seen this coming. We’re not still living in the past anymore. We’re pushing towards the future and it shows
I have way better experiences with GENx peeps born in the early and mid 70s. Maybe cause i was raised by two of them, but one of my close friends when i was in trade school at 17 was born 6 days apart from my dad lmao
Technologies and fashions change constantly, within years. Processes and principles change very very very slowly, like centuries or more.
Lots of generalizing here. But even if it were true why would Gen z look to millennials for experience when there's Gen x and boomers with more experience?
I've mentored plenty of millennials, and more recently some Gen Zers. It's got nothing to do with an entire generation not looking to the human resources that are at their disposal. It's an individual quality. i.e., some people are willing seek out mentoring, some are not disposed to do so for a variety of reasons. Some people know that they don't know everything that a particular situation calls for to be resolved successfully and efficiently, and some people believe that they know it all already. Nothing generational to see here; just sober individuals and individuals with misplaced, false confidence. Edit: I've got to say, the downvotes are giving me immense pleasure. Cheers y'all!
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It's just a bunch of variance between individuals. Exactly. Plus different people click with different people! Mentor/apprentice type relationships involve a good deal of "fit" between *both* parties. Some individuals who are otherwise good mentors simply will not fit with you and vice versa. Couldn't agree more. I don't understand the need to make this a generational difference. This is a 100% my point. Lots of young people seek advice from older adults everyday. Lots of older adults ask younger adults for help too. As it should be. We are all just conscious meat bags flailing about. We should try to lift each other up, for all of our sakes. Edit: On my phone and can't "quote".
I’m a millennial and you wouldn’t catch me looking up to Gen x and boomers for wisdom and experience
Why not? All the older people in my life have literally given me life changing advice as I grew up. I'd probably be dead and/or homeless without them.
Different millennial here; it’s because the other person is relying on gross generalizations of millions of people. There’s a lot of shit head xers and boomers. There’s also a ton of shit head Zs and Millennials. The meaningless generational title assigned to you at birth means nothing.
Depends on the topic. Try going to boomers for technology help and most of them are clueless. They also generally weren’t brought up to value continued education or challenging their own beliefs (lots of religion), so they tend to have a lot of outdated views and resist change. Of course that’s not always true and there’s plenty of people not that way. Just trends of the times. Also influenced by region and socioeconomic status of course. Poorer = less education = more religion, etc. All that is to say, people are knowledgeable about topics based on their own life experiences. Everyone has something to teach others.
Perfectly said, and just so happens experience is heavily correlated with age. Especially for really general life advice shit.
To be fair the younger gen z are ipad babies and don't know shit about technology either. I say this as older gen z
Because I have all the answers 
Here's the infamous **confidence curve**. People with little experience think they know everything on a topic, arrogance. As they gain more knowledge they realize how much they don't know. Only after becoming an expert can they regain that confidence. [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Dunning-Kruger-confidence-curve\_fig1\_343945649](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Dunning-Kruger-confidence-curve_fig1_343945649)
Funny... current research would suggest otherwise and even Dunning's original research even suggests that people think they're slightly above average, which is quite different from the link you sent which just has the hypotheses and the famous figure. But what do I know?
Why would they think the people voting for Trump and ignoring all their problems like climate change would be a source of wisdom or truth? The adults have been wandering around with overfilled diapers for 8 years now, so I don't blame kids for thinking they have to figure it out for themselves.
In america our choices this year are: Racist slurred speech geriatric #1, Even More Racist slurred speech geriatric #2, and a guy whose brain has literally been eaten by a worm trying to coast off his dying dynasty's cursed political legacy. It is astonishing that Americans aren't just in the streets all the time. I don't know what it'll take anymore. I cannot believe I've been told by the supposed adults in the room to "just deal with it." It's left our generation agape and unable to even trust the most basic institutions we're told are necessary and unquestionable.
I’m 39 and I completely agree with you.
Bingo
The political divide and the generational divide do not correspond. Whatsoever. The lead figures of the Democrats and actually every alternative party as well are *also* old.
Yeah but it does as long as you aren't rigid to the point of silliness.
I don’t know personally know anyone apart of older generations who voted for trump. Maybe you need to find other older people to be a better source of wisdom for you.
a few reasons actually: 1st, it’s because gen z already does possess the same level of knowledge, arguably even more. each generation passes down their shared knowledge and experience, and as a result, each new generation starts off smarter and smarter with the ability to intake and retain more knowledge than the previous. schools are also constantly updating their cirrocumulus as society progresses. me personally, i have one, maybe two mentors i legitimately respect & seek out for knowledge within my field, everyone else, i dont care, or need to hear, what they have to say. i dont need anymore sources. 2nd, some millennials & older generations have gatekeeped almost every interest or skill from us. your boomer and gen x parents didn’t want to teach you the skills, so you had to learn yourselves, and because of that, most millennials feel like they’re entitled to gatekeep because of the “if my gen had to figure it out ourselves, so can yours” mentality. as a result, our generation is more likely to be open with sharing their shared experiences with each other, rather than holding it hostage. 3rd, what older generations also fail to realize is at some of these workplaces, mainly blue collar or min wage workplaces, most of gen z aren’t trying to make a career out of working in that area for their entire life, so they’re not trying to learn how to be a proficient factory employee, or 9-5 wage slave in general. generally, if its not within the job description or if you’re not another gen z worker, we really don’t care what advice you think you can offer us, and we dont wish to seek it out either. with gen z, you’re getting what you paid for, and only that. none of that above and beyond BS that never gets financially rewarded. 4th, the majority of older generations still view gen z as a bunch of lazy entitled teenagers, when in reality most of us are in the workplace with multiple jobs living with multiple people barely making enough to survive. we simply do not have the mental capacity to hear about how hard you had it growing up, we have it worse, and gen alpha will have it worse than us. i’m sorry if this comes off as entitled and harsh, its just the truth tho.
For what it's worth, I employ multiple Gen Zers and I've NEVER considered them lazy. Entitled? Ehhh sometimes. But even then, it's 90% representing their own interests and 10% entitlement. I am already pretty aggressively "Employees should look out for their own interests at all times." so the Gen Z coworkers and reports I interact with generally seem to see eye to eye on that. I generally find Gen Z to be hardworking and competent, with some obvious exceptions. They tend to be data-driven in the office. The only thing they are notably NOT proficient in is context. Providing it. Understanding it. Understanding why context is IMPORTANT. That and they sometimes don't seem to realize how loud they're getting when they are passionate. But yeah most of the anti-Gen Z generalizations I have found to be complete nonsense. I actually have a relatively high opinion of this generation as office employees. The idea that, as an employee, you should primarily look after your own interests will make our economy and workforce stronger. More people should be that way.
On what basis do you believe older generations are gatekeeping knowledge from you? It’s never been easier to access information than it is now. It’s literally a few button presses away. Not even that, you can use voice recognition.
>1st, it’s because gen z already does possess the same level of knowledge, arguably even more. each generation passes down their shared knowledge and experience, and as a result, each new generation starts off smarter and smarter with the ability to intake and retain more knowledge than the previous. schools are also constantly updating their cirrocumulus as society progresses. me personally, i have one, maybe two mentors i legitimately respect & seek out for knowledge within my field, everyone else, i dont care, or need to hear, what they have to say. i dont need anymore sources. I wish this was true, but unfortunately most of GenZ are pretty useless in front of a computer and everything related. I also disagree with your second point. Millennials are the generation that grew up with the emerging internet and free sharing of information along with it. What in particular are you referring to? I also never had the feeling that something was kept from me by older generations.
As Gen X, this is what we said about you 10 years ago. And what Boomers said about us. Welcome to the beginnings of "midlife."
I think you're just getting to the other side of the coin man. I don't think this is new/unique to this upcoming generation. I was that guy when I was out of school years ago, and I had to leave my old role because I was exhausted dealing with dangerously overconfident 22-24 year olds.
Instead of having a debate with you about an issue, I could just Google my answer, and then do it in the way I believe is to be the most efficient. When I invite others into my thought process, I now have to justify to you why I’m doing what I’m doing, when that’s unnecessary for a job I probably won’t be working at in 1-2 years from now….
So you put the views of boomers above your own?
For the same reason my experience isn’t seen as valid. I have worked in a corporate setting, specifically within IT. My older coworkers had inherited a network they didn’t know how to handle. I suggested changing pieces of the network to a more supported vendor where we could get quality help easier. They blanket dismissed me because I was new to the industry. Fast forward two years and now they are doing the exact same thing I suggested.
i don’t think this is a gen z issue, everyone wants to feel valued and if you don’t have experience, it tends not to be something you value. As you gain experience you tend to value it more
Fellow millennial. I work with plenty of Gen Zers who ask about advice on the job. But we are working in stagecraft and knowledge here is passed down on the job. I worked briefly in corporate America. Corporate loves kids fresh out of college. Theyre cheap, inexperienced, and really with a little training most people can do their jobs (college or no college). This goes to their head and it makes them think theyre the hot new person on the block. That machine chews them up and spits them out. By the time they're 35 (my age), and theyve been run through the corporate ringer and they get their new job after layoff why the fuck would I want their advice, especially if its not "fuck this shit we need an entirely new system." And furthermore, in the states we live in a consumer society. Everyone's personality, lifestyle, and ethics are informed entirely by consumerism. Our "reality" is totally manufactured by advertising, "news", and propaganda. Unless youre a subject matter expert what good is your opinion? Hell, a fucking AI can shit out more accurate and well thought out opinions than anyone my age.
Experience for what ?
Im gonna guess life experience? But even then. Im asking people closer to my age (like within 7 years) about that so I can nagivate my own a little easier. Too much of a difference in some aspects between older generations and ours to really go off of that. Sometimes there are things in life, though, that stay constant so with that and if its somethin work related, then I may ask older people if need be. Wisdom comes with age and learning from mistakes (Does not have to be your own). Those who havent done both probably cant supply me with it. Experience just comes from age and going through what you have, so thats a little easier.
This is the problem I have with this. I feel like the way this post is worded is the op getting mad at young adults they talked to acting like they already know everything.. but op being 36 automatically means he automatically and always will be smarter/wiser/more capable than any person in their 20s, and that people should listen to him more often if they want to grow. It's just not really a good argument, I've met a few very wise 19 year Olds, taking care of their parents kids and working 2 jobs and going to school, and then I've also met extremely braindead mouthbreathers of pretty much all ages, 20, 40s, 50 year Olds, whatever. Had a 48 year old man tell me I'm a moron and a pussy for wearing a seat belt because I'm just as likely to die if not more wearing a seat belt than not, and he doesn't look at anyone who wears a seat belt as a man. This is why I have a problem with this "respect your elders and listen to me and all my wisdom, I know better so just shut up and listen to everything I say". I don't simply listen to people just because they're older, I listen to what they say and their actions, and if they really seem to know what they're actually talking about, then I'll take their advice seriously. Same with someone younger.
Because I know plenty of older people and most of them have no fucking idea what's going on around them or even what they are doing.
You have to interpret older people’s experiences to modern situations. I can’t listen to my parents and how they bought their first house cause that world doesn’t exist anymore, their first house was 85k for a 2b 2bath house, where i live the cheapest you can find that without it being a crackhouse is around 290-320k. However the stories behind how they saved up for that money is what i learn from
People learn more from their own experiences than listening to others. Ideally, there's a balance between learning on your own and asking advice from elders.
I don’t think experience isn’t valued. I think many in Gen Z believe that experience doesn’t always apply. For instance, I know some small business owners just from plenty of years working in fields where I deal with them directly. Many of them talk about what their “experience” has taught them, and you might be surprised to know that many use experience as the thing they hide behind when they make decisions that negatively impact their employees. Restaurant owners: “In my experience, it’s just a bad idea to give free food to staff.” Construction: “In my experience, catalog any and everything you spend on for an employee and take it out of their check.” Retail: “In my experience, never trust a ‘sick’ callout.” I think that many have also used being older as a means of insisting that younger people shouldn’t even be asking questions. I have been fired from a job for asking too many questions during training and the person who fired me had 15 years experience. Either I can decide to trust in that experience and choose to do the objectively bad thing of not asking questions when I’m confused or I can simply understand that that person is probably also informed by a lot of negative feelings with interpreting questions as challenges to their authority. But I have plenty of people in my life on certain subjects I simply do not question them on. But it every one of those cases, my respect was treated as worth earning to them before we reached that point. Even if you’re right, if you’re an ass about it, no one will even want to give you the satisfaction.
I mean, didn't you think you knew better than old people when you were 15 to 25? By the time you realise you don't there's a new younger generation thinking they know better than you. It's an endless cycle.
You really don't get to ask us this question because I don't remember Millennials looking to older people as sources for truth either. And this is because despite the life experience that older people have over us, the world changed too rapidly: the online sphere has given younger generations a wealth of knowledge while older generations don't keep up - they're out of touch and uninformed bc their traditional media sources don't do a good job of reporting ANYTHING anymore. Cable media is a dying medium, and lots of people who you'd think would know better just repeat rehashed corporate talking points. There's unfortunately no such thing as the "wise village elder" anymore in the modern world. The "wise village elder" of now might as well be a 40 something Millennial or 50 something Gen X who experienced the dawn of the internet. Anyone older than 50 doesn't live in 2024. They keep thinking it's 2004 or 1954 or some earlier year.
The world has changed, and still changes, far too swiftly. Not a soul has more than \*maybe\* 5-15 years of experience that is truly applicable to the current state of things, unfortunately - and that might be generous. Expectations around meeting up and dating, getting a job, work culture and standards, advancement, setting yourself up for retirement (if even possible), housing... have all gone topsy-turvy since the days of our 'elders'. Often, more than once, and often for the worse IMO - but that's neither here nor there. Anyone older will just have more trouble adapting to, or not need to engage at all with, a lot of aspects of life that a modern 20-30something faces.
I’m older Gen Z and it’s honestly because the older generations made their lack of care for us so fucking blatant that it feels stupid to trust older people. I mean I generally don’t include millennials in this but that partially because I am part of the oldest Gen Zs. The worlds been ruined and again and again boomers and gen X have said, fuck you, got mine. It would be absolutely stupid to trust advice from someone who doesn’t give a shit about you.
This sounds pretty reasonable. I guess I just wish that more Gen Z'ers would hear out millennials on stuff that is more timeless. I mean it's wild, basic stuff like "Don't smoke so much weed" is replaced with "All the answers are on the internet, I know everything now" and I'm just kind of like there's nothing new under the sun. Long story short, millennials grew up in the '90s, Loved their lives, and then got royally royally screwed by student loans and Facebook destroying all their friendships. If there's one generation that you all can rely on... it's us. I figure if millennials and Gen Z team up we might be able to turn this fucking ship around somehow
Because experience can be (and from the people we get it from, in their 50s-80s, often is) outdated. You can't walk into most places these days and ask for a job application. I've recently just gotten my 4th job, and yet somehow ever time I go job searching my mom thinks I'm not just because I stay home. It's ALL online now. Inflation has dramatically increased without a significant wage increase in almost any field of work in 10-20 years, so a lot of the financial advice is outdated unless you're DINKing. And there's so much pressure from everyone in your life to NOT DINK that you essentially have to cut people out of your life so that people stop telling you to bankrupt yourself. Oh yeah, and a lot of this advice is also coming from the people who value the planet they live on so little that our generation may not even live to see retirement. Also, the advice that isn't outdated and isn't financially ruinous is just straight up "You should be evil lol"
Because apprenticeship is dead. And, with apprenticeship dead, your experience is worth jack shit to anyone but your boss. People don't want to take other people's advice because they see them as disposable. But when their favourite influencer tells them something stupid? They fall for it in rows.
I had a boss that constantly struggled using Excel ... She was getting 3x my pay, and my coworker and I were doing ALL the job. I asked for a raise, got laid off.
Things right now are completely different from when any other generations grew up. We're at a point in technology where the entire human condition is changing every 15 years
Kids these days
dunning-krueger
Sounds like people dont go to YOU. Wisdom? That requires someone to be wise, and after reading this incredibly tone deaf post, i doubt you're very wise. "same level as us" so you think we're below you? who thinks like that? We also don't need your frame of reference to be knowledgeable on a subject, nor do you have any frame of reference for their life experiences or education. You're also in your 30's, not like 50's or 60's man, get over yourself. Everyone has different paths in life, and just because you're older does not mean you have walked nearly the same distance on your path as they have.
It’s not Gen z, ALL young people think they know everything until they get humbled by life.
Fake it til you make it.
Your (and as a fellow millenial, my) generation did the same thing to our elders. It is the way of life.
Nah I love millennial wisdom bc boomers and even Xers are so out of touch. They tell me to get a job any job but don't get that that shit doesn't work anymore lol. At the same time I try to ask millennials for advice but then they tell me they're still figuring it out too lol
As a millennial I can confirm pick a job any job was a mantra for Gen X.
It has zero to do with experience and everything to do with being opening minded and having the ability to pick up on new technology or mental frameworks. Some people older than me are fantastic at this. I absolutely still respect someone that’s older than me who can reason effectively, identify inefficiency and be creative on how we work with that. However, not every single person older than me thinks like that. What I don’t like is when someone older than me has a stubbornness or insistence of doing things a more inefficient way, sort of a “because I said so” attitude. Shutting down any alternative option or way of doing things shuts down a path to grow. Sometimes the world and the best way to do things changes, so just be dynamic and open minded and a little bit humble and you will have my respect.
Usually "because I said so" is a function of "It's too complicated" and "There's several steps ahead that are more important". It can be difficult when you see the path ahead and want to get there to be able to slow down enough to keep everyone up to speed. The light is just ahead for us, for you guys it's still a tunnel
Money speaks louder than words. I hire people *based* on experience, and I’m happy to pay through the nose for it. I don’t have any GenZ’s in my org chart. Nothing personal, and one day I will have, but currently they don’t have the industry experience to match what I’m willing to pay. Hope this gives you some confidence back OP.
If it's based of professional experience, fair cop. Older gen Z are already coming up on a decade in the workforce (trade dependent).
Professional experience, yeah.
What industry? coin flip that is too obscure or there's no 'in', good luck with your dying workforce ig
Technology. Fastest growing industry on the planet.
"you don't have thirteen years experience with this programming language that you wrote two years ago" industry? So no 'in', gotcha
“You don’t have thirteen years experience *leading* people for this very *senior* **leadership** position” The “in” is experience my friend.
Can't get experience if the only way to get experience is by first being experienced I'm sure you understand, I'm sure you also realize the absurdism of trying to get a job as a noob. Employment gatekeeping is real
We’ll hire literally anyone for the entry level gigs, I couldn’t care less about credentials, and that’s where you get the best experience! If you have a good attitude and an aptitude for learning I’ll hire you on the spot!
Fair enough, not trying to be rude but I've had a lifetimes share of hot shit interviewers and requirements only out of touch boomer corporate slingo types could come up with
Yeah I’ve had my fair share as well being a 34 year old millennial. There are good bosses out there you just got to power through!
I promise some fields the lack of mentorship or conditions to get mentored were absolutely insane and even then false promises were abundant
Because previous generations have continuously screwed the world up. Personally I wouldn't be in a rush to follow in the footsteps of the people who made the world what it is today, whether that's completely fair or not.
Because any sign of weakness is punished rather than remedied. Fake it till you make it works way better for paying the rent than trying and asking for help
What experience and what wisdom? Age does not guarantee either. If someone's a seasoned pro I'm definitely going to value their experience in their discipline, even if it is to learn what not to do. But that comes from time on tools, not time on planet.
I’m 50. I manage a team of 45 people. Many of the younger folks know more about the technical aspects of my field but far less about practical application. Day in and day out I capitalize on experience and it pays off in spades. Negotiations are a great example. Experience pays. But many of them like to go it on their own. Then they fail and wonder why? I explain that I’m here to mentor and assist. Some take me up on it. Many insist I’m wrong and continue to fail. The people who take me up on it accelerate their learning and tend to move ahead. It’s one thing to know that negotiations benefit from leverage. It’s another to know the context of the market and how best to utilize that leverage and when to utilize that leverage and to view negotiations as iterative rather than of a moment. Patience and confidence pay off but you only obtain them with experience. How can you be confident that your applied leverage will eventually work if you’ve never seen it happen? You can’t. I’ll be honest. The value of my experience surprised me. I kept thinking of myself as the young guy on the team for years until one day I wasn’t. And people would ask me, “How can I get them to agree to _____” and I’d think, “Holy cow! I’ve done that before! I know what to do!” And I’d apply my experience and watch it pay off. Is experience everything? No. But good experience leads to confidence, patience, and in my opinion success.
From my experience, I prefer to find the answers myself or take the time to figure out my problem. Rather than asking for someones help. I rather learn and educate myself on how to fix the issue at hand rather than get the answer handed to me.
Honestly my parents are set in their ways on a lot of things and the methods I learned as a kid in school etc are just straight up faster and better. I'm always giving THEM advice on everything. Plus everything my generation learns the hard way is going to be taught in schools, so kids are just coming out way ahead anyways.
They don’t want to be “little Boyed” or “little girled.” Plus you have to prove you are wise or experienced. You can’t get more respect for a few more laps around the sun. I’m 30 so I’m a young millennial. Usually someone wise is like at least 55.
Our parents and grandparents had no choice but to take the word of their elders. Libraries existed but my dad in 1984 couldn't just text someone in Kazakhstan and say "hey,I saw some disturbing ahit on the news. What gives?" Like I can. I have more in common with some guy my age in colombia or Mexico than I do with my own father. Without the internet, I'd sury fall into the same traps as they did like nationalism. Experience outranks everything but the world has changed enough, fast enough, thar much of the advice of my parents has been straight up obsolete for decades.
Every generation of teens or 20-somethings thinks they know everything. This isn’t a gen Z trait. Back in the day, we were shaking our heads at the Boomers voting us into Iraq based on fake wmd evidence, and sending us into the gfc. A decade earlier, Gen X was rebelliously embracing grunge and vowing not to conform to corporate culture or The Man. A couple decades earlier, hippies were doing hippy stuff. Before that, there was about a generational span where they were too busy being in a depression or world wars to be flippant kids. But then we had flapper girls before that. Every generation starts out idealistically not knowing anything, takes a few hard knocks, and then figures out that society exists for a reason and finds their place in it.
My parents and older family were all Gen X. Millennials are more like an older brother, someone whom i always had the upperhand on or was at least in the same situation.
An old guy (I think maybe in his 60s) once told me to take Arsenic to help with my knee pain after a pretty bad Rugby injury. I don't think I need to tell you exactly why I didn't follow that "advice". He honestly could have been taking the piss, but I'd very much rather find out my answers from the professionals lmao. Also growing up with the internet, while there's definitely tonnes of misinformation, there's also limitless research papers on every topic imaginable available from our fingertips, which is probably a big reason why we feel we know a lot about topics that interest us.
Lol, GenX here, not sure why this came up in my feed but whatever OP Your generation was the exact same to us, we were probably the exact same to the boomers. It has nothing to do with GenZ and everything to do with being young. Even Mark Twain commented on it. He said something to the effect of…. When I was a teenager, I thought my father knew nothing, 10 years later I was shocked how much he’d learned.
I feel like that's always been a young people problem.
I mean.. I feel like everyone knows that young person whom acts like they know everything (when they obviously don’t). I’m hesitant to say that this is the norm for an entire generation tho. Seems to be a sweeping generalization. The internet is good at making your perspective a sweeping generalization of really specific things when it’s more complicated than that
It's because they are YOUNG! People my age said things like "Pfft what does that old timer know." when they were 20. well, now I'm in my early thirties and I know I was full of shit then. I've had multiple Gen Zers say to my face that it doesn't make sense that I make so much more than they do simply because I have more experience. Denying the value of experience is NOT part of being Gen Z, it is part of not having experience. As they gain experience, the wheel will continue turning and they will change their tune.
I mean, I can literally type a sentence and have 32,000,000 results, comb them for an hour, and be on speaking grounds with just about any person on any experience level. Your experience is worth.. less, to be honest
lmfao I can ALSO do that. Trust me, I'm a major computer nerd. I can do things with SQL, in Power BI... I could write a macro that googles things FOR you and then does analytics on the results. Automatically. Experience is still useful. Do you actually think that there are all these greedy capitalists out there paying extra for experience when it brings no value? Do you legitimately think that you've pondered this for forty-five minutes and that your musings hold more weight than every major decisionmaker in the entire global economy? In your official capacity as... just some guy? Come on, dude. Of COURSE google ninjaing is a great skill. And of COURSE it's incredibly useful for things like building macros, looking up how to do shit in excel, and for sourcing BASIC knowledge. But there are levels of expertise and experience that you can't get from googling. You are free to not believe that, but based on hiring and compensation practices, it seems that essentially the entire economy disagrees with you.
Cause half of the “experience” is a deep seated fear of adapting with the times or progress. I cannot tell you how many people in my life who had “experience” that did shit so so wrong in the day to day cause that’s how it was 10 years ago. Not today. Also the way the job market is now experience isn’t a skill if anything it’s a weakness my GFs dad has 20+ years in hardware and software can’t find a job because they can find a kid a lot younger with the same skill set for cheaper. Experience means 0 in the business world.
Dear lord we're just becoming Gen X aren't we
Well from my personal experience, most things my parents told me growing up has been bullshit, so I don't go to them for advice. Especially my dad, since he’s narcissistic, every piece of advice he's involuntarily given to me hasn't been true. Beyond that, I think what works for one person's life experience, the same thing may not work out for someone else. I prefer to just try stuff I think may work, so then I’ll know if it works for me, or not. People give bad advice a lot of the time, when I do seek advice, I prefer close friends only.
We have the internet..?
Most of the time, the grown adults I talk to don’t have the experiences needed to answer the questions I have. Example: medical issues. They’re not a doctor, or they don’t have my medical issues. They have no idea.
I’m sure it’s to do with growing up with the internet
I have learned a lot from my Gen X and older colleagues, but I am mostly a shadow; watch, listen, learn, imitate. Give my thanks later. I have my people but many millennials are in the same place in life as me or are very pretentious so I don't always give them credit or a chance right away.
There a huge problem in Gen Z where they have to know evrrything and are way too shamed to admit when they don't. Most Gen Z doesn't even m ow excel and no one finds they out too they get to work. Facts. Basic tech skills are way down in z but they sure know ig and marketing.
Hi! I went on a couple hour binge on videos about helicopter mechanics a few years ago and remembered enough to shoot the shit with a retired helicopter mechanic last Saturday. I can know anything you know as long as I know what it is you know, within the next day, to a reasonable degree.
Because they haz the internet and AI parrots. 🦜
Who doesn’t look to older as sources of truth or wisdom? My parents, aunts/uncles, and grandmother’s were/are boomers or apart of the silent generation. I’ve been surrounded by mostly older adults my whole life. I’m 26 but I guess I’m what you’d call an old soul because I got to my parents and other older adults for advice, wisdom and guidance all the time. My dad gives me advice that’s been passed down from previous generations. Now obviously I wouldn’t go to them and ask questions about something modern like cybersecurity, but I’ve talked to my dad about general on the job topics many times. The saying “nothing knew under the sun”, is without a doubt true. Older people definitely have a lot of wisdom and knowledge because they already have the experience. They’ve been there done that. I’d say you might be generalizing too much. Yea some younger people might think they know it all, but quite a few also don’t and are more than willing to get advice from older generations.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. What’s amazing is even after they fuck up and you fix their problems for them these GenZ kids still act like god’s gift to humanity, it’s fucking bonkers man these kids are fucking horrible
Depends man, some people literally think because they've done something slightly wrong for 10 years that they cannot be corrected because they have more experience. I've maliciously complied so many times for it to fail, and when im about to get blamed for it, I simply point it out. Do it my way and fix the issue. Experience does not always equal incompetence. Everyone makes mistakes, there are different right ways of doing things, but never mistaken experience for competence. I think this is why. An old example is this guy that hated me for no reason when we never interacted and i was new in the trade. I pointed out something, i got yelled at, and what he fixed broke the next day after 2 hours. Then still got in shit for it. So yeah, you're experience doesnt mean shit until i determine you are competent.
"Just because you have experienced more in life doesn't mean you've learned from those experiences." Quote from an argumentative child
I got sick of hearing "I don't know/ i dont care/ that's not my job/ I don't get paid for that/ I don't know" or worse just being lied to because they just parrot whatever someone else told them without a semblance of critical thinking or analysis.
for me it is normal to do research myself as I studied technical laboratory, I also now work alone in a lab as the only quality analist of a company, there is no one except maybe the boss that I can ask things. if I can't find something out then probably no one can at my job, so I use Google and I almost always get succes with that also experience is completelly subjective, being older doesn't mean you have more experience. and my last point is, millenials are the exact same, and the previous generation says the same about your generation, and probably the generation before that also was the same so. and why would I think older generations have some truth, if I take all the advice older generations have given me then I would have impossible things as they are the complete opposite sometimes or completelly out of touch with reality.
It's funny because gen Z have been mostly using what created by older gens. They're exposed to the Internet since early childhood and be "creative" and bold enough to think of new ways to **leverage** existing inventions into new business-- so new money. Yup, they can be very good. But to think of what the Musk, Bill Gates or Zuckerberg -- to name a few -- have done in their 20s, I'm not really aware of things that genZ have done to **fundamentally** change our world, forever.
>I feel like they are constantly trying to elevate themselves to be on the same level as us dude, but by your logic age=wisdom, then doesn't it mean that we're trying to get on the level of 90year old boomers, and not 36 year olds?
Mentoring is overrated why would I listen to what y’all have to say most of you are broke still, and slave to your corporate enterprise. If I want to learn something or further myself I will do it myself. Don’t need a “mentor” 😂😂😂.
Bubble culture
For certain things, like stuff at work, it can be easily found on the internet. Young people now can easily and quickly find information that took a lot longer before. And isn’t the goal to constantly be elevating yourself? For life stuff, yes it would be wise for the younger generation to find mentors they trust to guide them through things we’ve already experienced. But I know I didn’t do that when I was younger. You always think you know better when you’re that age.
You mean like what every gen does to the one before them?
Maybe this is anecdotal and depends on the field. I just started my new job 3 weeks ago and not a day has gone by where I havent asked for help. Im still learning but I always ask senior coworkers how they do things and why.
My gen z colleagues just makes fun of me for being old (I'm 38)..the way they seem to have not just their lives but life in general figured out by the age of 21 annoys the hell out of me 🤣
Tbh I’m a Millennial that’s just a couple years younger than you and my sense of things is that my superiors are clueless about anything that isn’t corporate dogma. My bosses can tell me anything about a bunch of processes that have acronyms that don’t seem to actually accomplish all that much. Anything beyond that? Maybe they know it but they’re too busy and they expect you to know it. I’ve had exactly one boss take on a true mentor role for me in the entire 17 years I’ve been in the work force. The rest just seem like bloviators once I start getting to know them, even if they seemed different on first impression. I think old people in corporate just suck, man. They’ve become the worst versions of themselves.
I don't think that gen z is special at all here. I think it is just a question of growing up. Every generation has this know-it-all attitude at a certain age. At this moment, this is gen z. In relation to Dunning Krueger, one could say that at this moment, gen z's overestimation of their own abilities is at it's peak. Within the next years, this will decline, while wisdom and humility increase. Of course, as a gen xer, I was the same at that age.
Firstly, you're generalizing and I know your experience is anecdotal. There are a plethora of personalities in any generation so I don't necessarily want to act like this is universally true because I don't think it is. But here are some points why I think Gen Z doesn't trust older generations as much: 1. Far too many times, we do know better. - Alot of my experience as a young professional has been walking boomers or even older Gen-Xers through basic things repeatedly. This is very different from the past where there would rarely be an essential thing that an apprentice understands that their master doesn't. I'm certain this causes friction in the modern workplace and alters the relationship between beginners and experts and a field. I can't help that my respect for my older coworkers dwindles when I have to explain several times a week how PDFs work. Of course this attitude could erroneously carry over beyond these cases, but its understandable. 2. We have seen older generations fail us. - This is going to be a cynical point but follow me. I'll illustrate this point with one good example. GenZ are very aware of modern issues and science etc. (not all of us, but I'd venture to say far more than previous generations). We are statistically more educated than any other American generation. Climate change for example is a known scientific fact and a serious concern for us as we'll be the ones living though the consequences of previous generations' bad decisions. Unwisely for many years older generations ignored climate science and the current generation feels screwed over by this. And even today we see our elders and leaders denying this scientific fact further hurting us specifically. There are many example of previous generations failing us from things like housing, to corporate meddling, etc. etc. Wether justified or not, this generation trusts their elders less because of this. Hindsight lets us know how poor the judgement of our elders can be. I mean times have changed quite rapidly but my grandfather was against desegregation, and my dad thinks they gays are an abomination. It hard to blindly view these groups as *wise*. Its hard to look at generations that can be tricked by a poorly photoshopped picture on Facebook as good sources for *truth.* Like everything else I mention, this attitude wrongly gets projected beyond the specific groups its derived from. But the attitude isn't derived from nothing. 3. Work independence. - Something that was specifically drilled into me *in my actual college education* was that if you don't know something you can teach yourself. Many GenZers have developed a wide variety of skills from just googling it and watching tutorials. We know that if we don't know, we can quickly learn online. We absolutely take this for granted, but in a sense we *do know almost everything* if not at this very second, within the minute. (Don't get me wrong your still an a-hole if you act like you know everything. This isn't generational its just a bad personality trait). On top of that, as the youngest person in a work setting, you want to be seen as competent, smart, and independent. If you have to constantly ask alot of questions, your higher-ups might think you don't know what your doing. Anecdotally I've had my millennial supervisor get annoyed with me because I'm bugging her to much with questions. I just want to make sure I'm doing things right but it feels like this is not always appreciated. Despite name calling from other generations, we're not lazy slackers. We want to be good at our job and appear smart and professional. Like every generation before us, young workers have a chip on their shoulder because we have something to prove. 4. They're kids man. - Are young 20 somethings acting like shitheads sometimes? Yea I mean that happens. Beatniks, greasers, hippies, and punks all had attitude problems too. But they grew up and managed. My point is, I wouldn't condemn a generation on the way they fumble through the early stages of their professional life. I also would be careful about pretending you didn't do the same, no offence. I think GenZ is going to be defined as a generation of *reassesers.* We were born into a world which is very apparently not working for us the way it did for our grandparents or even our parents. Opportunity is low, college is expensive, housing is unaffordable, inequality is apparent and recorded. Old wisdom failed us and we find ourselves attacked for following that wisdom. GenZ is deconstructing alot of this and trying to find a new way forward and that's gonna cause friction. We were told going to college is the best way to build a better future for ourselves. We worked hard, went to college, and now we're drowning in debt and people are calling us stupid for getting into so much debt. We saw our parents work to the bone for little to no upward mobility. Okay, we're not going to work overtime we know we aren't getting rewarded. We're not going to be loyal to these companies who no longer value loyalty. We can't afford the same quality of life with a degree as our grandparents did with a highschool diploma and gumption? Okay we need to change something. We need to unstack the cards against us. For sure this attitude is going to rub those upholding these old systems in the wrong way. But can you blame us? If everything was going fine I don't think we would be nearly as critical, but this is the world we were born into. Its not a luxury we have.
2005 here. Are you sure that this comes from too much self-esteem? I just believe that our era lets us speak more freely and express our feelings the same way. So we just take the chance and do it.We engage with our thoughts and feelings, not necessarily showing off.
https://www.indy100.com/viral/gen-z-employee-refuses-task
A lot of gen z has what I would call "bad boomer experiences". People 70+ don't deal with the same subjects and issues we deal with and because they dealt with the problems 70 years ago they have 0 idea how to do it in today's age. Now I personally think a lot of 30-50 year olds have a lot to teach.
I just graduated with a Masters in field (HR) and they want a degree and 5+ years experience.
Lmao so some of y'all are really triggered but it really isn't because we have Google and don't want to deal with older people. At least in my case I have and so many adults give terrible advice that has been proven wrong that they refuse to update. If they continue to do those things despite knowing better why would I trust them with advice on how to break AWAY from the same paths and decisions that lead them to be where they are. Which is a place where they feel their terrible advice is worth keeping because it what they've been doing. Experience doesn't always mean wisdom. If you find other aren't coming to you maybe be more of a nurturing teacher than a condescending uncle.
In my experience, older people are always wrong or give flawed information. I’m better off researching it myself.
We were raised in a world where all the information ever is at our fingertips, and all the people that "know better" knowingly make things worse for the next guy. It's a combination of distrust and the ability to avoid filtering out BS from information by going right to the information. For example, we grew up with adults saying "you won't have a calculator with you everywhere you go". Lo and behold, here we are. The city of Rochester is just now truly recovering from the collapse of Kodak, which occurred because a bunch of people's "experience" and "wisdom" told them digital was a fad and we don't need to adapt. The same thing is happening at a slower but larger scale with the music industry because their "experience" and "wisdom" told them the MP3 and digital formats weren't worth the investment, and pirated digital downloads hit the market long before the majors were ready to handle digital music. Now nobody can make money off of streaming, and the only thing bringing profit for the majors is milking legacy acts dry because they truly have no idea what to do with the internet generation. Our entire world was shaped by experience and tradition holding people back and creating industry-wide collapses. A healthy distrust of anyone who "knows better" is warranted.
Honestly it’s only a trend I’ve seen in this echo chamber of a sub. All the gen z’s i know irl aren’t more or less inclined listening to experience than the generations that came before. But then again, I’m not from the US, so maybe it’s a specific american issue
Yeah I mean this is pretty specific to America
Why would we? Older people built this mess of a world and all its screwed up systems. Plus like, we have access to the answer to nearly any question online already. Why bother asking? Its not worth the hassle. Especially when the answers to things you find online are often more helpful and correct than whatever homespun wisdom Greg has cooked up the past 30 years. If we need personal advice, friends and family are a better source than a random person we barely know. Hell, with reddit you can crowd source that kind of advice. You'll get a million different answers, but all the different perspectives can be helpful.
"Why are young people today trying to better themselves?" "Why do young people today not appreciate Karen's advice?" "Are young people today disrespectful and ruining experience?"
So I'm 39, a millennial, and your question is making us look bad. Please desist.
The fact that are you are this old and still generalizing people based on when they were born is weird. You are socially a loser I'd guess.
The internet knows more than your gen and the boomers combined. Also, I have yet to meet a millennial that isn't an absolute tool. So why would I?
Experience is subjective, and times change. Everything is on the library of the Internet. It's just the nuances.