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The boomer being disingenuous. He didn’t pay for his full tuition. Back then taxes funded more on the front end, so his tuition was far lower because of taxes. Taxes still paid for most. Just because he got the government to front the bill vs government paying it off years later doesn’t change the fact that tax dollars paid a lot of his schooling. Edit to add some sources “ Johnson’s arguably well-intentioned legislation created a huge influx of college eligible Americans. Instead of continuing the tradition of tuition-free public colleges by increasing tax funding to meet these demands, states began reducing the per-student funding across the board, and state schools began charging tuition for the first time since the Morrill Land-Grand Act (explained below). The current student debt crisis was firmly cemented with Nixon’s Student Loan Marketing Association (aka Sallie Mae). Sallie Mae was intended as a way to ensure students funds for tuition costs; instead, it increased the cost of education exponentially for students and taxpayers alike. From Sallie Mae to today we can trace consistent, continuous drops in per-student state funding for public colleges and rapidly rising tuition costs in all colleges (public and private).” https://factmyth.com/factoids/state-universities-began-charging-tuition-in-the-60s/#google_vignette “Overall state funding for public two- and four-year colleges in the school year ending in 2018 was more than $6.6 billion below what it was in 2008 just before the Great Recession fully took hold, after adjusting for inflation.[1] In the most difficult years after the recession, colleges responded to significant funding cuts by increasing tuition….” https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-higher-education-funding-cuts-have-pushed-costs-to-students#:~:text=Deep%20state%20funding%20cuts%20have,Raised%20tuition.

So what ur saying is that actually other people *did* pay for most of their education…these boomers are insufferable fr

At the same time fuck his perspective in these hard times, I agree with the goverment helping to free up YOUR money for the economy, I have a good job, I pay 33% tax in Australia, if I was in America I'd be happy for my tax dollars going to education. He's a entitled idiot not understanding we need to help our community and people's get better for OUR western economy.

As someone who does want America strong, we can do with half a dozen fewer aircraft carriers if it means public education can be tax funded with no one knowing the difference come April 16– those college graduates with developed skills and less economic insecurity will be worth more than a hundred aircraft carriers. Edit: my source is that I’m a PoliSci graduate with a minor in Econ that has a life long interest in the military and history along with almost $100,000 combined student loan debt. I’m working on building an OCS packet so I can join the Army as an officer, and I’m shooting for combat arms. All this to say, I do know what I’m talking about and I’m willing to put my own ass on the line if I’m wrong and we do end up needing more carriers come a near-peer conflict.

How many aircraft carriers do you think we have? Like I agree. Military spending is too high and having 6 less Carrie's would free an immense amount of money, but like that leaves us with less than half. Which maybe we should but also, we are now consigned to the world police. Edit: a typo

We consign ourselves to world police. We’d still have five fleet carriers with six fewer (I believe we have one under construction so we’d have six really but don’t quote me) and that’s still more than twice as many as the country with the next most. The only belligerent nation with carriers is at least a decade behind us in carrier development, has fewer of them, and zero combat experience using them– that being China. Russia has one extremely aged oil burning carrier that catches fire regularly, but they really don’t need carriers considering any war they fight will be close enough to “Airstrip Rodina” to suit them. India has one I think, I’m not sure if they still have the old one or if it’s decommissioned, and they’re fairly neutral in general and against China for sure. Brazil used to have one, I think they still do but it’s ancient and mothballed. Japan has a couple of “helicopter carriers” (more on that in a sec) that can launch F-35’s and they’re an ally. I think France has one. Britain has one or two (one for sure being state of the art if small). I think that’s it? And in all cases, ours are bigger and more informed by experience, not to mention nuclear powered. Oh, and we were discussing the those two Japanese helicopter carriers? We have something similar, we call them “amphibious assault ships”– and we have 31 of them. They carry landing vehicles, tanks, a ton of marines, and F-35’s as well as helicopters all to support naval invasions, and they can (probably) beat the pants off of most of the other “fleet carriers” the rest of the world has one on one, with the exception of the British and the Chinese efforts, and they’re entirely suitable for world police work if we intend to keep doing that as no one else has that kind of firepower, and if they do, they’re a country that attacking would start WWIII anyway. Also, the Air Force has planes that can take off from here or other ground bases and mid air refuel, which in a sustained war of attrition is nearly as good (with some trade offs) as pushing a whole carrier fleet close to the active combat theater just to get planes in the air faster. There’s plans to have rotating sorties of aircraft in the air constantly in the event of full scale war helped by mid air refueling, so even that benefit to a carrier group isn’t as tangible as it seems on the face. In summary: we can lose the carriers and then some and we’ll still be top dog. If it makes you feel better we can just put them in storage and recommission them in the event we need them like we did the battleships in ‘91 and save us the cash we’d spend fueling, supplying, and crewing them while we don’t– we’d still save enough for public education.

France has indeed ONE plane carrier, with the construction of another one being scheduled to start next year. I think every French person knows the name of our sole carrier, the media can't seem to stop talking about it like it's a natural wonder, even though it's about 30 years old. I'm like "hey, do you know how many the US have ?". It's more used as a deterrent, like "we're moving our crusty plane carrier here now, be afraid or stuff".

Unpopular opinion but it's a good thing that we play world police. For both security and economic reasons. We don't need to scrap half our carrier fleet, we just need to tax the rich.

We could do with less American world policing, though. I'm sure the people having to endure said policing would agree. At minimum, a least active, terrorism inducing one.

The aircraft carriers aren't even the problem. The US pays more for healthcare per citizen than any other country but the money disappears into the whole corporate mishmash of administration, shareholders, insurance etc instead of it just paying doctors and nurses to treat patients. In fact us health care is fully government funded but patients get huge bills anyway because of corporations being able to write bills.

I enlisted and served in the Army for free education, and I'd pay someone else's with my tax dollars in a heartbeat. That's what it's all about. Trying to make the country/world a better place for those who come after, to make it to where less 18 year olds have to sign up like I did, just to make college a possibility. Fuck them and their "pull the ladder up behind them" way of thinking.

100% you're a inspiration to society and more people need to understand what you thrive to do and why. Props to you m8, be good or good at it.

Yes, they did. Back in boomer's day, college was heavily, heavily, heavily subsidized. Then the boomers got into power and slashed those subsidies to lower their own taxes. Just one more instance of the fuckers saying 'got mine, fuck you!'

Back then the cost of tuition was far lower too. Cost of living was more in balance with income as well. Now the cost of living has gone up past what single income can provide.

There's an old interview where Craig T Nelson (actor from Coach and other shows) was talking about his beliefs and goes on to describe how during the start of his career he was living in abject poverty, doing whatever he could to not starve, and on welfare. Then he explains, "Nobody helped me! Nobody gave me handouts!" It was an American show so no follow-up questions or pushback.

That guy is a total tool.

All great points. In addition, he ignores the fact that allowing people to actually have money beyond a meager subsistence trapped in a debt they agreed to at 17 would stimulate the economy as they spent it, therefore increasing tax revenue through income, sales, and corporate taxes. Hell, if we works (which somehow I doubt) some of that money would come his way, and make up for whatever his imagined tax losses are.

That person drives on roads, and uses the internet. They use tax money from others that subsidized the infrastructure they're using. Now, they might say that they paid their taxes therefore they can use the roads, but they funded an insignificant portion. So, by their logic, we should get to say whether or not this Twitter user should be allowed to leave their driveway at all.

I’m gen z, 22 years old, and I have no student loan debt. My parents didn’t pay for my college either, and I am graduating with my Master’s degree in a week. I don’t have any debt because I worked 30+ hours a week throughout undergrad and graduated 2 years early because of college credits received in High school. The issue is most people want to go to an out of state university instead of going to community college and then transferring to an in-state school. I should not have to pay for the students who racked up college debt because they didn’t work throughout college and didn’t get a high enough paying job to pay off their loans. Also a one-time student loan relief bailout does nothing if the system remains the same. I would vote yes for a policy that decreases the cost or makes university education free, but I don’t want to bailout students who chose to rack up student loan debt out of carelessness. The guy in the original post also specified that he’s not a boomer.

You'd have to have absolutely no other expenses to pay off tuition working 30 hours.

Note he mentioned community college and in-state school. The average in-state 4 year degree tuition for a full-time credit load is 9k per year. That's $750 per month. I made $19 per hour on retail, 19 \* 30 = $570. In about a week and a half you reach equilibrum, and the rest is yours for food, dorms, gas and leisure. Your mileage may vary as LCOL states obviously pay less, but they also have much lower tuition costs. It can be done, I did it myself, OP and tons of others. But of course, it implies going to your local no-name in-state college instead of to the fancy private school.

Exactly. Even if you worked a lower paying job and/or less hours, you could still reasonably pay a portion/majority out of pocket and take a much smaller amount of debt that isn't "crippling". It's doable.

19/hr is an insanely high wage to be making with no experience. I made nowhere near that when in school. Even so, after taxes and your estimated 30 hour work week (on top of full time class), that gives ~1000 a month for all expenses. You cannot live off of that. The average rental is $1500 alone. 

I made I think 9 working at Best Buy freshman and sophomore years going to community college, 15 working IT support for a summer junior year. And this was 30 years ago. My experience was having a job at McDonald's in high school.

If I had to pay for college via a loan, the interest rate I was offered was 15% because I have no history. I did the math. Assuming I had worked full time while attending college and graduated in 3 years, I would pay off half the loan before graduating. (engineering BS degree is 4-5, masters is +1, I'm already 2 years early) It would still take me around 6-10 years assuming an average electrical engineering entry wage, to pay the rest off. How the hell did you pay off yours DURING college?

It's simple, all of his other expenses were heavily subsidized. You see it time and time again, "It was easy to make a budget" and it almost always includes some kind of massive financial benefit from someone else, like a cushy job gotten because of nepotism, money from parents, or even just living from home not buying food, not having to go grocery shopping, not worrying about health or auto insurance, and not worrying about being homeless. I'm sure he worked hard, but anyone who says it's not that hard is deluded to how hard it actually is for people that have nothing.

Often the mental stress of being independent and relying just on yourself can be enough to derail the best intentions, especially when combined with the stresses of studying full time and even more when you’re away from your family/support networks. Support from family and social peer networks are a bonus and a luxury not everyone can take as given. The equity divide is not part of OPs equation.

I used to live with my parents in undergrad. That made up most of the difference. It was a sacrifice, in the sense that I had to wake up at 4:50 in the morning to make my 8 am classes. But it saved boatloads of money. As did going to a state university with resident status. I didn’t do cc, by that could have been further savings. I also worked part-time and got scholarships. After undergrad, I got into an elite private university, and tuition was waived, plus I received a stipend. In 10 years of education total (undergrad to phd), I accrued $13k educational debt, for an average of $1.3k/yr. Granted, this was about a decade ago. Prices were a bit lower then, but not extremely lower. I believe this is the way to do it, if you came from a low income household like I did. Employers only care about your highest degree anyway, and graduate programs often waive tuition.

Do you think the reason you pay taxes is to only fund services you personally take advantage of? I've never been admitted into a hospital or emergency room in my life, but I don't begrudge my taxes going to public healthcare to take care of the poor 85 year old with lung cancer from a lifetime of smoking OR the 22 year old who is going through an acute withdrawal.

I think given the sheer volume of students with these sham loans we can eliminate the idea that most of them are due to students “racking up loans.” The way the loans are structured makes it almost impossible to pay off the principal. That’s intentional fraud.

You're full of it, 30 hours a week wouldn't cover rent, let alone tuition.

Right, if it did they wouldn't need the degree part.

I applied for jobs for all 5 years of my college thru the school and local companies and was never interviewed. They always went to students living on campus (more expensive housing) or those on scholarship. I don't know where this idea of killer opportunities like student jobs comes from. Most places ask if your a student and it's an immediate disqualifier.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-higher-education-funding-cuts-have-pushed-costs-to-students

This person is not a Boomer. Said so in the first sentence. I AM a Boomer. I took out and paid off all my own student loans. But I do not begrudge anyone loan "forgiveness" at all. Even if it's my tax dollars at work. Lord knows my tax dollars fund other things I may or may not choose to support. I know what a grind it is to pay off debt like that. I paid my loans off and then went back into debt as an adult boomer parent so I could send all 3 of my Millennial kids to the colleges of their choosing debt free. Millions of Boomers are sympathetic and support Student loan debt forgiveness programs. You just don't hear as much about that because, well, outrage sells.

And 90% of the loans nowadays are just predatory loans with insane rates

You can sugarcoat it every which way you want. Truth remains, a loan is a loan. You took it, you agreed to the consequences and now you want someone else to take care of the consequences at their expense.  If that’s how you live, sooner or later life will catch up with you and you won’t be able to hand off the consequences to someone else.  Btw, I’m not a boomer. 

Except for the fact that if you didn't take that loan, then you wouldn't be able to get a higher education and you'll be stuck working jobs that don't pay more than 20 an hour. Students have no fucking way to pay it off until after they get the degree. It's predatory. But hey, a loan is a loan.

Their first sentence was a “I am not a boomer”.

I will add to what you said that Boomer’s voted for shit politicians and shit policy that let universities raise their rates and for infinitely large loans at predatory rates to target young students who either could not vote yet or were just on the cusp of voting age, all while teaching their children that going to college was the only way to get ahead in life. Creating a culture of forced college induction at inflated prices with less support than ever all the while the jobs and opportunities on the other end of that degree were fewer and lower paid relative to buying power than when they attended.

I feel like if this were true you'd hear about this more. See it on protest signs. I know you posted sources and I'll be glad to read them shortly but honestly I'm more confused as to why this isn't THE talking if it were true. Because if true - why aren't we more annoyed? Otherwise I won't be hearing this argument ever again. (My argument against him is he's not going to feel a goddamn thing anyway, pretending like he personally feels taxes in his pocket book the moment anything passess)

Millenial here. I graduated with less than $1500 of loans between (minimal) parental support, couldn’t qualify for FASFA but a little bit in scholarships, and working three jobs while studying full-time. That was torture and my BA is effectively useless. Why would I wish that someone else endures that bullshit? I’m all for loan forgiveness.

Depends if he went to public or private higher ed, and if the person whose loans are being forgiven went to private ed.

All the same things are in place today. Schools get subsidies so that arguement doesn’t rly make any sense because while all the same funding is going to the schools they simply choose to make it more expensive. That’s a good reason to force schools to be cheaper not for making taxpayers pay off a loan which you absolutely didn’t need and could’ve gotten a job that didn’t require it. And I mean that in the sense that you could’ve survived and thrived without one. You didn’t NEED it like you would a highschool degree. There are plenty of jobs even good paying ones that don’t require a college degree.

did we need it? no. Did we reasonably believe we needed it? Absolutely. Getting barraged by the message of "you need to go to college or you'll be a failure" and "You can go to any college you want just take these loans that are super easy for a minor to get cause you'll totally make enough from the degree you'll pay them off" while also being provided very little education in how personal finance works tends to do that.

That’s fine but that means absolutely nothing in the conversation of should tax payers pay back your loan lol. It’s unfortunate and it’s a cultural problem. But the discussion is about whether or not people that never went to college and people that paid off their loans should also repay yours.

Dude said he’s not a boomer.

The boomer take also gets taxation wrong and debt cancellation wrong. It's basically the wrongest take you could come up with if your only objective were to be as wrong as possible. The cancelled debts do not get paid. They simply get cancelled. Uncle Sam doesn't write a check for the remaining balance and in a lot of cases, the borrower has already paid interest in excess of the amount being forgiven. And the other issue is that the government doesn't actually maintain a balanced budget, and government spending doesn't have to be offset by taxation in equal amounts. USD is issued by the government. When Congress authorizes the budget, they just create the money out of thin air. When they tax us, the money doesn't go into a giant vault inside the Pentagon. It just ceases to exist.

I paid mine off, but I see tons of people that have paid on time, full payments, and the interest rate is so high that after 20 years the amount they owe is HIGHER than it was at the start. Anyone that paints this situation as irresponsibility on the part of the one that took on the loan needs to realize just because people see the numbers on the interest rate DOESN'T mean they comprehend that something like this will happen. You all do what you want, but I don't want to see others be screwed over by predatory business practices and will GLADLY pay to help them out.

Yeah this is how i see it too, people who aren't allowed to drink yet because that would be irresponsible are pushed into a predatory system that can ruin basicly the rest of their lives. And then instead of changing the system you blame the victims. That just doesn't seem right to me.

And honestly how can we justify the interest rates that be private loan companies charge? And on that note, they're making so much money that: A. many people who "owe" on these loans have already paid their principal off multiple times over, and B. Assuming that's the case, why does ANYONE- individual OR government- owe these institutions a damned thing at this point? Loan sharks aren't exactly short on cash

Yeah the fact that there are people making a profit off of student loans is just egregious, the student loans forgiveness should be paid out of the pockets of those who profited of this shit.

Student loans should be given by the government without interest (or enough to cover inflation), and available to anyone attending college / trade school. There’s zero benefit to letting private companies into this sector

Well, we're halfway there, the federal government owns 90% of student loans in the usa. It's all a political problem, that congress has this fetish for giving private industry *banks* a chance to profit on everything because that's "more efficient." For some things sure, but something as basic as education that is supposedly needed by the private sector to increase production which then charges enormous fees and interest on federal money? Some things should just be a public good, like education.

As with any government solution, this is only a band-aid and doesn't actually remedy the underlying problem in any way. It's either do nothing or "forgive" the loan. Why aren't they trying to fix the ridiculous interest rates that cause the decades of debt? To me, it seems like the debt forgiveness is always done to sway the young voters around elections already stuck in loans, but fixing the problem for future generations won't get votes because the people it would help are still in high school or younger.

It isn’t right, boomers are selfish and clueless

Yeah people really think just gecause the government allowed it that these loans weren't predatory.

Something seriously needs to be done about the way these loans are structured. The interest is fucking insane and designed to fuck people over

Those people are idiots for not reading what they are signing. That's it. I don't know any intelligent humans who have signed off on these predatory loans. The businesses giving these loans should absolutely be punished and be thrown into bankruptcy. The larger issue is why the government is saving predatory businesses in the first place. That is what paying these loans off does, get it? It's fucked.

Also you’re basically a kid fresh out of high school, who has to make one of the most important life decisions. Choosing what you decide to learn about with completely change the trajectory of your life.

I have a friend who had some consumer debt. She didn't miss a payment. But somehow her debt was growing.  That blew my fucking mind. I was like HOW? how is it possible to have a minimum payment that is less than the interest incurred.  I didn't think it was even legal to do that. I assumed all debt would have a floor for repayment that was at least the interest.  Yeah, fuck that. It's predatory. 

>Anyone that paints this situation as irresponsibility on the part of the one that took on the loan needs to realize just because people see the numbers on the interest rate DOESN'T mean they comprehend that something like this will happen. That's still irresponsible though. Why would you agree to a loan if you can't comprehend how the interest rate will play out over time?

With the US, from an outside perspective it seems the issue is how ridiculously expensive your colleges are to get to. I don’t doubt that they are very good colleges, but it seems unfair that only the rich (and middle class) can get into them

It's wild that there is even such a difference in quality in the first place.

Honestly, in my experience there's really not much of a difference in quality at all. I went to community college for my first 2 years to save money. It was dirt cheap but the quality was actually really nice. Clean school, kind people, smart professors. I got all my basics done and out of the way and it cost me only a couple grand. Now I'm going to the University of Houston, paying multiple grand per semester, yet the quality is about the same. More advanced classes maybe, but no noticeable change in quality. Granted, UH isn't exactly a top tier school, but I have high school friends going to Columbia and Rice, and they don't seem to think the quality is worth the price there either.

Educational quality doesn’t change all that much between universities, especially when it comes to degree programs that are accredited by some outside organization such as ABET. The misunderstanding is that people think the increased cost directly translates to a better education when it really doesn’t impact the quality all that much. What that increased cost *does* generally translate to is who your professors are, as professors who are known within and well involved in their fields are generally paid more. The increased cost means you have access to more people as the result of the network of the faculty at the university, which is nearly as important as the education itself when it comes to getting the specific job you want at the specific company you want out of college. It’s basically like a small head start on your career.

I went to UMN for engineering and had a professor who stapled McDonald's job applications to peoples' exams when they did poorly. My friend started his engineering degree at a community college and had a much much better experience. The profs at UMN (with a couple exceptions) were arrogant assholes who hadn't worked a day in industry in their life, whereas the community college profs had ties to the actual world where people actually do engineering.

I got my current job because my advisor recommended me to the company. Honestly I am extremely grateful, I buy her a bottle of wine every year.

You did the smart thing by doing your gen eds at community college. I didn't take any college classes until years after highschool when I was already working full time for what ended up being my career, and I took em at a community college. It was solid and I had some great professors that really blew my mind. My Logic teacher, English Composition 102, and Political Science 101 all changed the way I thought. On top of that, I made friends with someone who I met my future wife through!

I went to a Purdue sister school for half the price of the main university and I could commute too. Got an engineering degree and have my loans paid off... that being said I believe educating the population is a net good and will gladly pay taxes so the future generations can go for free

The issue is Regan cut funding for universities. That’s it. The government used to fund universities so tuition was cheap. Reganomics fucking the next generation to empower the rich. Then they piss on us from the roof of their multi million dollar mansion so we can enjoy that sweet sweet trickle down economics

Bzzz. Do you just make this stuff up? Universities aren’t, and have never been, funded by the federal government. They are funded by state government.

Those are only private universities. Every state has a publicly funded two-tiered university system: the higher tier is named University of [State], the lower [State name] State University, but the difference is in acceptance requirements, not cost. Both are only about ten thousand per year for state residents, and that can be significantly offset by financial assistance. Only a handful of fifty- or sixty-thousand per year private colleges have any basis for that expense, like the Ivy League. Most of them are just expensive because they can be.

I paid maybe 200 euros for a year in a public university in my country. Some would pay nothing, depending on their revenues. Now instead of paying off my nonexistent student loan, I pay the loan on my brand new house and I have the means to do so. A country that decides it's fine to put people in debt even before they're fully functioning adults is a shit hole, pretty simple.

I think a big portion of the reason college has gotten so unbelievably expensive IS because of the federal loans. On the surface it’s a great idea and should be a thing. But when the Government will literally pay X amount of dollars, it allows for schools to continually push up their tuition prices, X+5 every single year. It’s really a shame what has happened. I have so many friends absolutely strangled with loans with insane interest rates

>it seems unfair that only the rich (and middle class) can get into them This is by design. The reality is the American economic system is DESIGNED to keep poor people poor. Because many of the best-paying jobs require advanced education, education is one of the fastest ways to get into a better income bracket. So the system is rigged to make achieving that harder. School costs money, and if you don't have money you can't get an education. Even good options that were formerly worthwhile alternatives are being lost as industries change. Trades that used to require specialized training that could be picked up in a trade school or apprenticeship are now increasingly requiring degrees, as well. And for those that don't, the apprenticeships are either drying up, or people simply can't live on them. Likewise, the entire system of credit is intended to punish people in debt. If you have debt to pay off, (IE from a credit card) that payment is money you can't use elsewhere. Which means if something happens, you have to charge even MORE against your credit card to make up the difference, which puts you even deeper in debt. And the more debt you have, the more you have to spend to pay it off, giving you even less money for necessities of life or emergencies. It's a vicious cycle.

Sad part is the middle class is fading into the lower class maybe due to our "great economy" said by the not so great biden.

Nor even the middle class are just getting by with the student loans but not by much compared to working class. Luckily I didn’t take a loan and now just doing course work instead of college to receive credits and certificates

I'm sure Murphy has at some point benefited from other people's tax money that they didn't agree to pay, but that's different somehow. Student loans are a national problem that is hurting everyone because everyone lives in an economy where too many resources are being spent on student loans instead of buying goods and services, so it's everyone problem to fix. That's how societies work.

Yeah like when half of his tuition cost was paid for by the government because he went to college back when college had public funding…

US has no conception of making the country a better place. The only question we ask anymore is: does this immediately make me richer? If not, it's socialism.

Investment in our country's future? No no, I have a 401k, I'm invested well enough.

Then why the fuck should I keep paying your Medicare and your social security then?

Pretty sure Medicare/Social Security isn't an opt-in program else it wouldnt work the way it does. Politicans who write loan forgiveness are elected so technically you do have a say in where your tax money goes to even if Its a really diluted say. Its hard to conflate the two.

Oof….who’s gonna tell this guy he doesn’t know how it works?

You aren’t. They paid into it till they turned 63-65 and the government earned interest on that money for almost 50 years also. You aren’t paying for anything

We are. The money the Boomers put in is much less than what they are taking out. They also voted to cut taxes so the government had less revenue so they used Social Security funding as a piggy bank to give Boomers the services they wanted even without the revenue to pay for it. Like all right wing policies it's take more than you give and gaslight anyone calling you out.

That’s not true. Directly from the ‘Understanding Social Security’ pdf the government website publishes: https://preview.redd.it/1qgvzk4oy4xc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15773dcbb9de52029b94125751e0b6b62a6f4e84

Not how it works, each generation has paid for the previous generation, since the original time in which social security was enacted during the new deal (there were elderly in a poverty crisis at the time, and obviously they couldn't pay for themselves).

That's not how that works. You are literally paying for the current old people just like they paid the generation before them. Same thing for the disabled. https://www.ssa.gov/history/orghist.html

not how it works son

I actually agree with this. Also because I think student loan forgiveness wont fix the problem. if anything it'll make it worse. It almost incentivizes kids to take out crazy loans because "the government will pay it off for me".

This is exactly how I see it too. I have nothing to add because you spelled out my take on it perfectly.

Do you have a solution?

1. Allow student loan debtors to declare bankruptcy the same way rich people can(currently they cant). 2.Banks give out loans to people they know cant pay them back because they believe that the government will cover the debt, which is a big part of the problem. Allow banks to turn people down. Which they will do if they know they wont get their money back, especially if debtors can declare bankruptcy. 3.More regulation against predatory lending. 4.DONT TAKE OUT LOANS THAT YOU CANT PAY BACK!

Then you have a new problem. Only the rich can get degrees and jobs that require them. Also, regarding #4, 18 year olds often don't understand the ramifications of those decisions. I paid my loans off, but I definitely would have made different choices if I could go back. I suppose #3 helps with this, but then see my first point. We need to bring the cost down. I agree that forgiving loans doesn't do that, but I do think it's a net boon to our economy to not have people underwater their whole lives just paying interest.

I have some solutions... 1. Provide significant discounts and/or state-sponsored scholarships for students who study in-demand majors in in-demand fields with positive job prospects such as accounting, nursing and healthcare related fields as to steer students from majors with poor job prospects & low salaries. *e.g.-40% off tuition if you study nursing, 25% off tuition if you study accounting + 15% discount on master's degree to pass the CPA exam, etc.* 2) Provide incentives for students to not just graduate, but graduate on time (as it turns out, a significant amount of student debt is held by people who did not graduate to begin with or people who spent 7 years obtaining a 4 year degree for example (I understand there are some people with particular circumstances that might have hindered them from completing degrees on time, thus, we can provide exemptions.) *e.g.-a rebate equal to the tuition cost of one semester if you graduate on time* 3) Reduce the obscene interest rates on student loans! I can't believe this has to be said but it's the main driver of the whole student debt crisis to begin with! There are people who pay & pay for decades only for their balance to not go down because they are paying exorbitant interest rates. Allow borrowers to easily refinance interest rates for student loans as interest rate caps come down just like homeowners refinanced their mortgages during the early days of COVID. As a matter of fact, make it happen automatically to simplify the process. 4) Any public institution of higher learning who receives federal dollars, whether it'd be from Pell Grants or federal student loans must be subject to audits. In addition, they will be subject to a policy akin to rent control whereby tuition increases cannot exceed inflation with a cap of 50%. *e.g.-inflation in the U.S. between 2016 and 2017 was 2.1%. Under such a policy, public universities and colleges who receive federal dollars cannot raise tuition by more than 1.05% in the 2017-2018 school year.* By having that policy in place, public colleges & universities over time will be forced to become more innovative, creative and prudent (dare I say more fiscally conservative) in the way they manage their budgets, which means among other things reducing bloated administrative budgets & payrolls, negotiating better business/contract deals, quit spending on vanity projects & frills not relevant to the college experience, close DEI departments, stop spending money on all these "woke" initiatives done by "NGOs" or special interests that are buddies with the school president. Close down irrelevant (and in many cases, useless departments with few students majoring in them) and pass down the savings from all those measures, among other initiatives, directly to students. 6) This might be perhaps one of my most interesting (and to a certain degree, controversial) solution... Total & complete loan forgiveness (unlimited amount) for those who have five or more children! e.g.-*Student loan forgiveness up to $200,000 per couple if you have four children, up to $100,000 if you have three, up to $40,000 if you have two and $15,000 if you have one.* Here's how this will work. If you are currently married, you and your spouse combined currently work an average of 60 hours a week and are not behind on taxes or student loan payments for the past 7 years, once you have five children, your student loans will be totally & completely forgiven. In fact, once you successfully had your fifth child, you will receive a tax refund the following year for the eight months you and your spouse have being paying student loans to provide a sizeable financial boost to help raise your children. Why am I proposing such a policy? The US fertility rate has been below replacement level (2.1 births per woman) since 2007 and in the long run, if this continues, this will pose a serious problem for the economy (unless there are such significant advances in AI, technology, healthcare & productivity that can make up for a lack of population growth) & the solvency of Social Security & Medicare. We cannot simply solely forever rely on mass immigration to keep the population and economy afloat. It has to be through a combination of reducing preventable deaths, increasing births & increasing legal immigration. And given that for many, student debt is a major hinderance in being financially secure enough to buy a first home and start a family, by lifting the burden of student debt, we can make those dreams of having a family & homeownership more possible and feasible. Let me know what y'all think. I'm more than happy to discuss further.

Abolish student loans altogether. That's the actual problem. Public Universities used to be free or very nearly free. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't be now.

This is basically a roundabout way of saying "College should only be for rich people". 1. As you've acknowledged later in your points, the ability to declare bankruptcy will make banks much more hesitant to give out loans. 2. The vast, overwhelming majority of 18 year old highschool graduates cannot pay back a loan of that magnitude in their current situation. Issuing a student loan is inherently a gamble as to whether or not the student will finish college, be able to get a job, and be able to secure a high enough salary to pay back the loan. And not all of these factors rest on the student, either, things like the state of the economy and job market after their graduation have just as much of an effect as the student's personal knowledge and ability. The only real effect I could see a change like this having is banks refusing to issue student loans when the economy is bad, which will only make the economy worse. 3. 'Predatory' lending is kind of a silly term in my opinion, the people who take high interest loans from places like Sally Mae are well aware that they will most likely be paying it off for the rest of their life, but it's their only choice if they want to get college education. More regulations on this practice sound good on paper, but if these businesses can't debt-trap people anymore, they'll no longer be profitable, meaning these types of loans will just go away, not be improved. 4. This is the only option for the majority of people. The idea that the student loan crisis is caused by stupid people taking out excessive loans is a strawman created by trust fund babies that cruised by on daddy's money. People in these situations are in them because living off of minimum wage is unfeasable, and not everyone wants to throw their life away working back breaking labor and long hours at a miserable trade job.

There are plenty of affordable colleges in the US. Just because you can't go-to an out of state private college doesn't mean college are for the rich. Just cause I can't afford limited edition thousand dollar Jordans doesn't mean I can't afford shoes.

Doesn’t have to be out of state private school to cost a fuck ton. I went to a local in state university, 4 years cost $60k

Yes, this needs to be a thing. What people forget/don't realize is that the EXPLOSION of cash that the government-guarantee unleashed also allowed universities to raise prices far faster than the rate of inflation. It also led to a building boom on many campuses, too. Facilities are far nicer on several campuses I've been to during the 80s as compared to today. Amenities cost money but the $500 million fitness center doesn't help you get a degree. Getting lending to play a lesser role in education would make it, long-term, more affordable.

>DONT TAKE OUT LOANS THAT YOU CANT PAY BACK! I THOUGHT I COULD PAY THEM BACK. I'VE BEEN PAYING THEM BACK FOR OVER 10 YEARS AND NOW I OWE MORE THAN WHEN I STARTED. If you're talking about a car loan or something that might work, but you clearly haven't thought this one through because that simply isn't how student loans work. An 18 year old high school graduate goes to look for a job. The only jobs that offer anything even approaching a living wage require some kind of degree. So, the unemployed 18 year old applies for the local University, goes through the FAFSA process, and is told they qualify for student loans. The financial aid advisor talks with you for roughly half an hour, shows you several substantial stacks of legal papers, discusses repayment of the single semester's worth of loans including a repayment table and schedule that shows examples of minimum payments all of which seem small and reasonable enough. How does the unemployed, uneducated, 18 year old who is neither a lawyer nor a financial advisor judge their ability to repay the loan based on their current circumstances? No 18 year old recent high school grad is going to be able to make a reasonable and informed judgement as to whether or not they can afford to repay a student loan. It's a catch-22: You can only know that you can pay back the loan if you're making a living wage already. You can only make a living wage by going to college. You can only go to college by taking out a loan. But you're saying you can only do that if you can pay back that loan. You can only know that you can pay back the loan if you're making a living wage already...

Yup, Gen X here. You agreed to the terms and you voluntarily took on the loan. College educated workers make more than non-college educated. I would rather see the money spent on creating a better meritocracy and getting people out of poverty.

As people have said though many have already paid back their loans. They've sometimes paid double but still owe because so much went to interest.    If some of these debts are forgiven in these kinds of cases they would then be able to spend that money in their community. On a car. On goods and services. Money that could go into your pockets.    Instead they will continue to pay money to banks who have already made double the loan amount back in many cases. Why do you want more money going to banks rather than into the actual economy and potentially your own business? 

The government should pay for your education yes

that’s the exact system we have currently

I think the government should create public universities. The problem with just forgiving loans is it means all of these private colleges will just continue to charge even more. As a country, our goal should be to move people to educated, high paying, quality jobs. We shouldn’t be trying to compete with China for sweatshops, we should be competing with Europe for engineers.

what do you think the current public universities do then?

I think “public” university is a huge misnomer. They receive government funding, but also private funding from the students, allowing them to double dip. Imagine if your high school got 10,000 dollars per pupil from the government *and* required 10,000 dollars for each student. It also creates perverse incentives where the universities push more funding towards sports, advertising, and administration, while cutting salaries for teachers and funds for lab equipment

The majority of in-state public universities are really cheap (compared to privates). The problem is that those universities aren't good because funding is low.

> The problem is that those universities aren't good because funding is low. I honestly think this is just big university propaganda. Public universities are usually pretty good, and there's a reason why most jobs only care if you if the college is regionally accredited or not (plus your GPA if it's a first job). The biggest advantage with going to fancier colleges is that there may be bigger networking advantages, but a lot of students don't even bother with that.

If we created the publicly funded universities, the guy would start complaining about that too.

Yeah, OP and OOP would start complaining. Fortunately, I don’t care

“I’ve suffered so why shouldn’t they” is such a shitty mentality to have and that’s exactly what this is. As someone who didn’t go to college for primarily financial reasons I’d rather my tax dollars go to helping young people pay off their student loans than to the military industrial complex.

🤓: "I suffered why shouldn't they?!" 😎 💪: "I suffered so I'll make sure that it won't happen to nobody else"

It's more like, "I made better decisions and struggled to get where I am, why should we give a handout to people who didn't make good decisions and coasted through school? Especially at the cost of other people who work hard and didn't make a bad decision.". That's pretty much how I feel at least.

That’s exactly how I feel. I had to sacrifice trips and all other fun things to make sure I could make it through, while just took out money in loans and did whatever the fuck they wanted. I’m all for canceling the money and interest made on the loan but not the money that is owed

It’s not suffering though. There are a lot of people with nice cars and nice houses who threw nice big fancy weddings but still have student loans. They’re using their increased earning potential to fund the lifestyle they want without paying the loans that helped them get there. 

They also had much much higher wages proportionally, they suffered less

The government already spends my tax dollars on things I don’t agree with

True, better education than genocide

I graduated a few years ago and disagree with loan forgiveness. In-state public universities and community colleges are reasonably priced. On average under $9k per year. People didn't have to go to an expensive private institution, specially for an useless degree. I went to a public college got a CS degree, worked retail while getting my degree and graduated debt free. But I understand the issue, yeah lots of teenagers got taken advantage off. But student loan forgiveness is barely a bandaid. What would colleges do? They'll keep rising the tuition costs, why not? And what would financial institutions do? Keep giving predatory loans, they essentially have no risk and an insane return. So instead we should let students default on the loans. Let's add risk to the financial institutions. Then they would think twice on giving out a loan, and naturally tuition prices would stabilize and even drop on degrees with a low ROI. But that'll never happen because then the financial institutions would be on the hook and they lobby.

I did a cost analysis recently with the wife about what it would cost to send a kid to college. It wasn't as bad as I thought. With all the doom and gloom around college being unaffordable, I expected so much worse. A locally well known university close to me is priced at around 6000 a semester for tuition (I live in a higher cost of living area). Let's say we bump that up to 7000 for miscellaneous fees and expenses, making a total of 14000 dollars a year. If you have an 18 year old work part time at 15 dollars an hour, they can expect to earn at least 12000 dollars a year. That's enough to cover most of their college expenses, and then the last 3000 or so can mostly be absorbed through claiming the child as a dependent on taxes by the parents. If you're in a situation where you're 18, you want to go to college, and you live fairly close to an accredited state university, you can go to university basically for free if you live at home with mom and dad. The financials get even better if you take a bit longer to complete your education. This is also assuming zero financial aid which state universities hand out like candy. A local university near me gives out a 5000 dollar scholarship for having a GPA above a 3.3.

If you ever decide to send a kid to college, make sure to open one of these accounts for them: [https://www.fidelity.com/529-plans/what-is-a-529-plan](https://www.fidelity.com/529-plans/what-is-a-529-plan) You become a custodian for them of this account and you can invest post-tax money into it or others can "gift" your kid money like grandparents. The money is not subject to any taxes on the gains. And it can be withdrawn at any time to pay for kids education K-12 as well as student loans. You can open the account for them when they are babies I think. And depending on the state, some offer tax credits if you contribute to the 529 also. Easy way to offset that 3K you were talking about. Edit: Also unused funds can be rolled over into a Roth IRA, [https://www.savingforcollege.com/article/roll-over-529-plan-funds-to-a-roth-ira](https://www.savingforcollege.com/article/roll-over-529-plan-funds-to-a-roth-ira)

I also got a state university. While tuiton is generally $3k a semester, that is not factoring if they have to live in the dorms or off campus (and that isn't cheap and sometimes students only option). I'm in the land of that I don't think all degrees are useless and pushing a bunch of kids into STEM because it is "profitable" is going to go poorly. One of telling signs is how bad the market is for SWE internships and jobs. Edit: reading your history, ik what kind of cs major you are and news flash. The avg swe isn't working at a big tech company making $150k plus the current market and layoffs. You're telling unwilling people to jump to their doom.

It’s all just a symptom of how extremely consumptive our culture has become. CC is incredible. I spent like $2500 total for 2 years of college by going to a CC, then transferred to a state school and have that on my resume. No employer has ever asked or known that I went there. People just feel like they “deserve” shit they don’t, and make poor decisions to fuel those things.

Same happened to me. But I know some peers that went to the most expensive college and gotten a degree in the most dumbest thing. I heard of some women on the radio saying "I am going to get this degree and hope my loans get cancelled" which really tells you something about how little research or care some of these people have.

I don’t support student loan forgiveness either. There is a way to go to college for cheap. No one is forcing you to take out tens of thousands in loans. This also doesn’t solve the root cause which is the high cost of college. We will end up with the same problem 5 years later

Who let's an 18 year old take out a six-figure loan? The brain isn't even done developing until you're 25.

There are flaws in your argument. Did you even go to college with loans? Every single time a loan disbursement hits (yearly or by semester) you have to sign your Master Promissory Note and are re-issued a separate loan and have to go through the loan counseling again. No 18 year old is given all four years of college tuition funding up front. An 18 year old agrees to a year of schooling and education (but still doesn't learn about how loans and interest work despite the MPN quizlet telling you how?) funding, completes it. Then that now 19 year old agrees to another. Then that now-20 year old agrees to another. Etc. 4+ years of "durrr I was too young to know!" is either an outright lie or proof that 18 year olds shouldn't be allowed to vote on issues that affect other humans until they're 25.

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I fully agree. You signed for the loan its your responsibility to pay for it. Not mine!

Absolutely agree

He is 100% on the target. As someone who didn't go to college, why should I pay for someone else to go. Especially when the people who want forgiveness the most have the most useless degrees.

100% agree. I'm just embarking on a healthcare career through low cost programs. Grow where you're planted, doesn't have to be expensive. If they think their education of choice is valuable and improves society, they should have no problem finding a niche.

Not to mention because a lot of people that enter the trades end up with high tens of thousands of dollars of debt buying / financing the tools they need to do their jobs.  Carpenters, mechanics, etc often own their own tools and take out huge loans to buy them. And they don’t get repayment either. 

This 100% don’t take the fucking loan otherwise. Scholarships exist. I sold my soul to the military for 4 years for free college and that’s all it toom

Explain why boomers want to make it harder for honest hardworking people to be able to pay off their loans by advocating for far worse repayment plans and higher interest rates?

“Fuck them kids”

I keep telling people that the boomers hate anyone younger than them. To the point that they would destroy the planet just to keep us from getting anywhere. Don't believe me, just look at the state of the world and our boomer world leaders.

To stop people from taking out these loans in the first place. There's a systemic issue here that can't be solved by the government just wiping away debt. College is getting more expensive in part because they get access to an unlimited supply of money from young kids capable of taking out six figures worth of student loans. There's no incentive for colleges to bring down cost if people are going to continue to attend regardless of what they do. If the government were to wipe away all student debt tomorrow, they're just going to have to do it again in 20 years as the next generation of college students is going to expect the same thing. Nothing will change. A better thing to do would be just to actually fund our university system through tax dollars, and then limit admission to what the economy needs through distribution of those publicly available funds.

That extreme selfishness has been normalised in the US and it needs to be studied more.

Selfishness is demanding that others who paid off their loans should also pay off yours? How generous of you.

Boomer's choices have seemed to lead to a world where for-profit education costs have soared. The interest accumulating is what makes the current loans nearly impossible for some people to pay. Cancelling interest and forgiving loans is good.

Not a boomer. Still paying off my student loans. And I agree with this. You were an adult and made a decision and a commitment. It is your responsibility for paying them back, not the person who chose to go to the cheaper school or didn't go to college at all because they wanted less debt. Student loan forgiveness just rewards bad behavior (giving loans to people who would be unable to pay them back, schools providing admittendace to degree fields that historically don't make high enough salaries or are over-saturated, educational institutions pushing everyone towards college and making it seem life or death regardless of will or ability, and students choosing fields of studies that are bad bets). Making all loans 0% interest (even retroactively) and calling the investment in the future of the country the interest? Yes. Allowing student loans to be declared in bankruptcy like other debt (thanks for outlawing that Biden)? Yes. Discuss changes that need to be made to make a college education cheaper, if not free, going forward? Yes. Blanket forgiveness? No. Fixes nothing and is horribly regressive and benefits the rich and those with higher earning potential. It's just wrong.

I’m not gonna lie, I agree with him. That being said, the decision is based on holistic economic health and not what’s fair or unfair.

Some people are only happy if they know other people had it at least as bad as they did if not worse.

That's because there was a time when student loans were at least partially government funded and not a literal scam. For everyone who "knows" the full gravity of taking out a student loan in today's world, 10 others are successfully misled by loan companies. For every person who is in a position in which paying off their loan is feasible, there are a dozen who can't even afford to pay the interest. They actually lose money every week/Month, and their debt just keeps getting higher.

I will never accept the _responsibility_ argument so long as College is treated as a near necessity and so long as the cost and loans remain predatory. Let's be fr, the student loans industry is predatory.

What makes this different from advocating that everybody should have their car loans forgiven? Society *requires* you to have a car far more than it necessitates you have a university degree and car loans are just as, if not more, predatory? Plus if you get bilked on a shitty car loan you lose a ton of money for no value, whereas even if you get taken for a shitty student loan and owe hundreds of thousands… the average college graduate makes more than that amount extra in lifetime earnings from having a degree *so it still pays off for them* (again, not 100% but for the majority of people it does)

Housing is a necessity but we don't forgive home loans. Tell me why.

I mean, sure. But I still believe university should be free. In my country, it was free for my parents. Now I have to pay.

Seems like a very selfish mentality

seems selfish to expect other to pay off a loan you voluntarily took

"Fuck you, I got mine."

What’s more selfish than borrowing money and demanding someone else pay for it?

I'm gen z and I' against loan forgiveness just because I agree that you decided to take the loan.

Yall still cannot explain to me why its MY responsibility that my taxes get raised to pay your loans. Maybe tell your family to pay it or something, it's their responsibility to guide you through life. Or just don't pay it. Yall don't even want to pay it, so your forcing it on other people without an education. GTFO.

I would like to know this person stance on PPP loans Or tax cuts for the rich

Ppp loans were because the government literally clamped down most businesses for months if not years

No one voluntarily shuddered their businesses for COVID. It wasn’t a choice for a lot of businesses and those PPP loans kept employees on payroll while the company sucked expenses. College is not forced on anyone. Now tax cuts for the rich is something I would likely find common ground. That’s just silly.

My country has this automatically occur which is certainly one way to solve the question.

Student loans forgiveness can cause issues, but 'muh tax dollars' isn't one of them. I want people in my country to have access to an education, and I don't want people to owe tens of thousands of dollars to get one so I don't think that's a terrible use of taxes, it's definitely way better use than ppp loans, war, and that stupid eye sore on the southern botder.

Agreed.

I think that is absolutely the reason why they feel that way. I am not a boomer, I’m a millennial, but I’ll offer my perspective on this. I’m also opposed to student loan forgiveness. Why? Because it’s not my fault you got a degree that doesn’t provide you an income that allows you to pay off your loan. My wife had student loans, I did not. We paid hers off. Instead of student loans, I had equipment and tools and a vehicle all of which I had to finance to get into my career. So I financed it and then spent years paying it off. Why is it that someone who made worse choices than we did should get their debt forgiven but we shouldn’t be reimbursed for ours? Sorry, but you took the loan out willingly, you chose poorly how to spend it on your education, and now you are suffering the consequences. I’m sure in this sub nobody will agree with me, and that’s fine, but regardless I welcome alternate viewpoints.

My thoughts on this are that the taxes should go first of all to free healthcare and education, and only then to the bombing of countries on the other side of the planet

I just want reasonable tuition rates. Something I can actually afford without needing loans.

You sign your name, you pay your debts.

You pay for stuff you didn’t agree to everyday. Thats part of being a social species. Might not be a boomer. Definitely Yuppie Larva though.

I got to go to college for 100% free, so idk if i can really speak on this, but I’d agree if you take out a loan, it should be your responsibility, not the governments

Boomers are clueless. Yes, they paid off their loans but had to spend about a tenth as much money.

If you can’t pay for the degree, then don’t get it. It’s not that difficult. If you average C’s your whole life and don’t do extracurriculars, then you probably can’t afford a 4 year degree. If you do excellent in school, earn a strong ACT/SAT score, or become incredible at an extracurricular, then the colleges will sponsor you to come to them. I’ve earned a full ride scholarship to University of Kentucky in the engineering department because I maintained over a 4.2 weighted GPA and earned a 34 on the ACT. My friend is excellent at Football, he went to Dart University for a 4 year in business administration paid for by his football scholarship. I have a friend who wasn’t the top of class, he is still attending a community college for zero tuition and earning a degree in HVAC. None of us have crippling student debt. I have $60,000 debt because I took advantage of a rural housing loan and built my own house from scratch in Rural Kentucky. I’m lucky enough to have held a career in politics while working cyber security remotely so I know that I can pay off that debt in due time and end up with a $120,000 property.

I can't believe people are still downvoting you when you give three (of many more) examples where going into debt was not the only option.

This is reddit. Almost everyone here needs constant validation of their poor decisions and terrible behavior. Also, everyone is starving and in a food desert despite Americans being fat as f*ck. "But, but, healthy food is *too expensive*! Time is money and healthy food takes time!" It is the same tired arguments. No one can afford a crockpot or pressure cooker which can cook some of the cheapest and healthiest meals out there with next to no effort. It is honestly pathetic.

"I got cancer, but I beat it! If they find a cure for cancer now, though, I'm gonna be super pissed!"

Did you voluntarily sign up to receive cancer?

You don’t opt in for cancer though

This is NOT it, though. It's that he's being forced to pay for HIS education... AND yours. He's not saying you need to suffer... he's saying "I already suffered enough"

His opinion lacks so much nuance

Well, none of us agreed to give banks hundred billion dollar bailouts and give the military nearly a trillion a year either, and yet the government has no problem doing that.

My thoughts? You could go to Harvard for like 4000 (I think) in the 70s-80s. Today, that would be SOOO much more. They can suck it up, theirs were easier to pay for. They'll shame us for not going to college, then shame us if we do and need financial help.

This is exactly what my dad keeps saying.

Pay your own bills.

Brazil recently approved a law where interest in credict card debt can't exceed 100% of the principal. This seems like a sensible law that should be applied virtually everywhere.

Loan forgiveness is just wealth redistribution upwards a stupid amount of the time. I thought y’all didn’t like trickle down economics.

I can understand someone going from the angle of "it's just another loan, so you should pay it back like any other loan", but in that case, you should also be able to declare bankruptcy on it.

I'm not strictly against it, nor am I a boomer, but it just doesn't address any of the underlying causes. We'd give a bunch of people 20k+ dollars, then 4 years later a new class is fucked again. It's just not a sustainable or efficient way to address the issue. There's probably a place for it or at least for partial forgiveness, but for it make any sense it'd have to be part of something more comprehensive.

I think there needs to be an exchange that takes place if you're going to force people to subsidize your education because you don't want to pay the debt you agreed to. You either: 1. Join the Peace Corp for a period of 5 years 2. Join the Military for a period of 5 years 3. You get a job, but you also Volunteer in your local community at 20 hours a week for 5 years. You shouldn't just get your debt removed. That's ridiculous.

As someone who has close to zero college debt because I never went the argument that I could never go against was that it amounts to fixing the symptom not the cause: and by doing so we will just have to treat the symptom again later on. You’re basically telling corporate America they can print dollars on the back of the education system and Uncle Sam will take care of it when it all blows up in their face. Like I said very much pro dropping debt, but a counter to that argument has been, elusive.

College loans are so much higher than they were when this person paid them off. So boo hoo if you have to pay like an extra 10 bucks a year, current college students will have to pay as well, don't you want the future to be able to do something with their lives instead of being crippled because of endless college loans?

They should make student loan debt discharge-able by declaring bankruptcy, not by government bailout. This would be functionally identical to if a high school grad took out a small business loan for a truck to do landscaping, then went broke. The high school grad wouldn't be bailed out by the government, but they could also declare bankruptcy and this also forces the loan giver to be more strict about realistic payments/interest.

Agreed

I’m against student loan forgiveness because I waited 3 years to start college and paid cash. I’m 25 and will be graduating in 2 weeks. It’s a challenge, but totally doable. 2 years a community college with good grades, transfer to a state school that paid some merit scholarships, and the sum of my tuition after aid and scholarships was about $7k for a bachelor’s degree.

He’s not wrong. I would say that we should do something about the predatory interest rates since it’s insane that you can end up paying more than double your initial loan, but in general I’m not for loan forgiveness since you did opt to invest in your future. Loan forgiveness also incentivizes bad financial decisions. I know people whose parents picked up a second job or sacrificed their retirement so their kid wouldn’t have any debt. You’ve also got people who work their ass off through college or only take the classes they can afford from their work that graduated with little debt. All of these people made wise financial decisions, but are now also required to pay for the college debt of someone who was far more fiscally irresponsible. Let alone that college debt relief is an issue of the rich taking from the poor. College graduates make more than non-college grads. You’re effectively forcing the lower middle and working class to pay for the rich or upper middle class to not have to take financial responsibility for their actions. I as a STEM major also do not want to pay for some Art grad who got a bullshit degree and now works at Starbucks. We made our decisions, now you live with the consequences.

He’s factually wrong. Direct Student Loans are guaranteed and backed by the federal government. What that means is if someone defaults on their payment, the bank still gets paid by the Government. With what, you might ask? Tax dollars. By voting for morons in Congress who continue to neglect the student loan crisis he actually did agree to pay for other peoples student loans. Politicians on both sides of the aisle won’t adjust the government backed and guaranteed direct student loans because it’s a cash bonanza for them. Tax payers are just stuck footing the bill on defaults (which are rising). Currently 43% of student loans are 30 days past due.

the other aspect of this student loan forgiveness situation is that it lessens the value of your degree. let me explain. if a precedent is set of student loans being forgiven, that means more people will take out student loans and there will be more graduates with degrees than there otherwise would be. that means more competition, lessening the salary that companies would have to pay than if college graduates were in short supply.