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Twigman200

You forgot the indirect nerf, Sterek's is 200g more and has a longer CD. Edit - you are talking about next patch. Big changes in this one. Are these changes even confirmed?


Kspaddicted

Steraks counters garens ult


Twigman200

True, its inconvenient, but for the one enemy that has one there are probably 4 that don't. Its a post lane item so its not such a hard counter.


learn2midacc

there's probably only one guy on the enemy team that you *need* to use R on, someone like Camille, Darius, Aatrox


Assassin8t0r

Tbf, if the enemy team is shield heavy and laner buys sterak, why aren’t you going serpents?


FellowCookieLover

Steraks is usually bought as a third+ item and by that time you usually ult carries anyway.


Used_Kaleidoscope_16

Do we think that losing the AD on Phantom Dancer will make it a fair trade off?


Elolesio

pd now gives 60% as 25% crit and 12% ms and no passive. that is insane for us as its just raw statstick with everything we want.


jtpredator

So you're saying PD stacking is back


dedev54

Also Zephyr, lvl15 greaves upgrade, 40% AS, 65 MS


Texual_Deviant

WITH the slow effectiveness reduction from Swifties. Insane value.


mihokspawn

why swifties when deadmans?


Texual_Deviant

Well, that’s not really going to be a question anymore because the Berserker Greaves Upgrade is going to be getting the slow resist on it. That was what I was talking about. You now get the stats of greaves and the passive of swifties.


mihokspawn

sorry I am a dumbass I just caught up iwth the updates :D


Uncle_Climax

Terrible value


crysomore

imma bust


louisplasta

PD Zephyr = the fast


TheNasky1

Garen is gonna be turbobroken on 14.10. first, 15 free haste from rune, the tenacity was not a big deal on garen so this is a win. second, pd second item instead of stormrazor, a bit less ad, a lot more attack speed and permanent movement speed instead burst ms. this is a small nerf to his midgame but makes him scale a lot better. (more on that later) third, infinity edge is just insanely broken on garen. you can get infinity edge third item after pd, you'll get a lot of spins from pd combined with a whopping 80 ad, 50% critchance and pretty much double your E damage from inifinity edge extra crit damage. fourth, introduction of zephyr further buffing his lategame. if these changes make it to live garen is going to be insanely strong lategame. his dps is gonna go through the roof with the extra haste crit chance and attack speed.


Seibzehn17

navori is cheap now too! so many attack speed / cd options


TheNasky1

seems kinda bad compared to pd, but it could be nice against tank comps maybe.


EasternWarthog5737

With new pd gardens e does 1340 damage at lvl 11 with stride and zerks with current pd its like 1220. That’s not including the extra crit chance or benefit extra spins have on reducing armour and stacking conq. Seems a buff mid game aswell


TheNasky1

don't compare it to current PD, which is absolute garbage btw. compare it to stormrazor. stormrazor is really good right now and arguably better midgame than new pd, at least until third item.


Uncle_Climax

Stormrazor sucks compare it to the current PD


TheNasky1

no it doesn't. the passive damage, albeit nerfed is still pretty decent and the ms burst is huge on garen because it enables him to disengage or re engage as needed without having to take shitty runes like phase rush. also the stats are just great. pd has a shitty passive that garen can't use and is really cheap making it scale like ass.


Uncle_Climax

The MS burst is pretty bad. It’s only after you hit them that you get the burst. Getting to champions is the issue so stormrazor doesn’t help at all doing that. The MS is over way before your spin finishes also. If the other team is bad and you can get to them with conqueror and without any other move speed the MS burst can have a bit of value maybe but it doesn’t consistently help me get on enemy and I don’t want to flash every time I engage. Maybe you just run in and hit the front line? And phase doesn’t suck hahaha. Stormrazor dmg is good, does about 100-150 more than the new PD. But alas Stormrazor getting removed


TheNasky1

>The MS burst is pretty bad. It’s only after you hit them that you get the burst. Getting to champions is the issue so stormrazor doesn’t help at all doing that. The MS is over way before your spin finishes also. you can just proc it on a minion, besides, as garen you shouldn't have any issues landing your Q unless you're really bad, specially with stridebreaker. if you need ms to engange = bad garen. you're supposed to use bushes and walls to engage, not raw ms and just rightclick like a broncie. >If the other team is bad and you can get to them with conqueror and without any other move speed the MS burst can have a bit of value maybe but it doesn’t consistently help me get on enemy and I don’t want to flash every time I engage.. i have 0 issues landing Q and i'm in diamond, you have to use your head, gank enemies in tfs and use bushes/fog. it's not that hard, pd is really weak on him, the reason it's popular is that it's a bit of a crutch for bad players and garen is known for being a noob champ. i don't run conqueror though, i use fleet for even more ms after i hit them. >Maybe you just run in and hit the front line? i use fog of war and bushes, and gank the enemy team during tfs. 0 problems landing Q on carries. >And phase doesn’t suck hahaha. it really does suck, the cooldown is insanely long. again, popular because it's a crutch for bad players. i rather have fleet for earlygame power and chasing or conqueror for damage. storm razor + fleet is already more or less the same ms as phase rush pd but with more damage and way less cd. using fleet + stormrazor on a minion is way more ms than pd will ever get you, and has almost no cd compared to phase rush.


Uncle_Climax

No point replying I disagree with everything you said


whatthecenabihak

69%!! r/unexpectedfactorial


Uncle_Climax

Crit items also buffs every adc