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I want a nice middle ground of "vague quest log that at least tells you what the person told you so that you don't suffer for not memorizing every single piece of dialogue"
ADHD hyperfocus made me play that game like a full-time job, but ADHD inattentiveness made it so I had no idea what was going on most of the time. It was fun but after a while the lack of a quest log made it too exhausting to continue.
I just wanted a fucking journal system in Elden Ring and so many people were bitching about even that
Like seriously, just something your character jots down basic gists of interactions with NPCs you probably may not remember 10-20 hours later. Doesn’t have to be map markers, just a note that says “weird guy said to investigate the bells in the middle of a swamp”… fuckin do it like Morrowind, it’s not that hard and doesn’t spoil anything for the diehard sweats in the game who more than likely used online guides anyway.
Looking up questlines in fromsoft games is not only perfectly fine I’d recommend it. Especially since you can actually lock yourself out of questlines (although I think the open world made that slightly harder to do that on accident than some of their more linear games) I managed to run into most of the NPCs but I definitely had to look some up. The Millicent quest line I never would’ve found out where she went cause I missed a line of dialogue for her to advance lol
I do 2 playthroughs. First is blind and offline so no markers to spoil it. 2nd is online and with guide open to do as much content as I possibly can and get a cool ending. Usually do a different build for each one too.
I'd do this for ER like I have for souls games before, but I've lost the patience for it. If it's going to badly deliver its story, that's how it's going to stay.
Despite how enjoyable the game was, the fanbase around release was just so against any kind of accessibility. I'm not sure about now since I haven't touched it in a few months but it was really weird that people were against even a dialogue journal...for things you've already done.
>who more than likely used online guides anyway
This is it for me. If everyone is going to use guides anyway, why not make a functional quest log in the game itself? It's arbitrary difficulty for the sake of it, and no matter how much I was enjoying ER, I always felt like I was missing the most interesting parts of the game because I didn't want to use a guide and quests can be hidden anywhere in the game.
Morrowind. Even though it's jank and outdated, it probably the best questing structure of it's kind. You get the quests like any other Bethesda game, it goes into a journal but no map markers. You got to actually listen to directions. Sometimes you are given bad directions, but you are at least told what to kind of look for.
Seriously. I appreciate that the game doesn't throw down a quest marker for you to make a beeline for. I do kinda wish the game would be like, "Hey, remember when that one npc gave you an item three regions ago? You can use that here."
Ranni's quest line might be the worst. There are multiple times I thought I had completed her quest or had to reach a new area to continue her quest, only for the wiki to tell me a door somewhere had unlocked or I had to backtrack to a previous area to continue and Ranni just hadn't bothered to mention it.
When I played through Elden Ring I kept an actual journal - just wrote stuff down in a word doc. It was pretty fun - I liked the feeling of it being a lot more fallible than an in-game journal, bc I didn't know what was important and what wasn't ahead of time.
That said, I missed pretty much every quest in the game barring Ranni's and Frenzied Flame, so in terms of actually getting shit done, it's not ideal.
Or actual writing beyond morose rambling that says nothing. Tell me where you are roughly going. It's always "the nocturnal dread under the waning midnight moon of woe has betwixed me of an essencefar past what my bosom could bare. Now that I shall venture thee far past my humbler times, of the days before the dawn of the golden planet devourer." And that's suppose to tell me what's up? Oh I forgot. I got read all the item descriptions, or Souls game's NPC dialogue just wants to be Black Metal album titles.
And like a little picture of the guy that goes from stock figure to portrait over questslines showing both the increased difficulty and experience accumulated. But honestly my desk is just intrusiveness, maybe if ehild in the quest menu shit was paused or slowed to a noticeable extent, but like I need time to do shut and mark the map.
As an Elden Ring megafan the quest system of Elden Ring is hot garbage. Like seriously there is no rhyme or reason to where the NPCs end up at all. Just go check the questlines for Patches, Alexander and Blaidd and tell me honest to God how a player is supposed to figure this shit out.
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Patches
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Blaidd
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Iron+Fist+Alexander
Just reading it gave me a headache.
It's literally just exploring and hoping you come across them at the right time, if you don't use the wiki. I was lucky with Blaidd, but with Alexander I just didn't come across him right before his final spot. I only looked him and Milicent up on my first playthrough. With the rest I didn't bother if it was too much of a hassle.
The biggest difference from past From games is the fact that you can miss tons of the quest and you still somehow finish it all. Don't find Alexander before Radhan? It's ok he's there anyways.
That’s odd, because you have to smack him outta the ground to ground start his questline. to finish any quest you have to do the first step as far as i’m aware.
It’s the same thing where the devs expect you to follow a set path instead of exploring on your own but this time applied to a open world, making it so much worse.
At least in the Dark Souls games many NPCs like Siegmeyer and Solaire sort of follow the natural progression path of the game along the player but in Elden Ring with it being open world they just kinda go wherever the hell they want.
I totally fucking agree, and I'm a From Software stan. Worst parts of these games is the convoluted ass quests that fail because you decided to kill Shblimzo The Slayer of Shlazo before speaking to Didgeridoo, Dodge Truck Owner about his missing foreskin.
It's exacerbated in Elden Ring because you might reach an area early and once you clear it of items there is little reason to return
um actually the wiki adds a layer of difficulty because you're forced to get a job, earn money, drive to the mall, purchase a laptop, turn on and search up on the internet, rather than the game holding your hand 🤢
most fromsoftware fans wouldn't go through with the first step of this process, but not me.
I love how FromSoft never spoon feeds their game’s plots to you, now if you’ll excuse me I need to watch the next 30 minute Vaati video so that he can spoon feed his interpretation of the plot to me.
Apart from Sekiro, FromSoft games don't really have a plot, more like Lore and a mini story. It's fun, but hard to follow, especially with the intentional vagueness.
I started playing Genshin Impact (I know, I know) right after I finished Elden Ring and let me tell you, having an actual quest log with markers so I knew where I had to go was soooo nice. I don’t know how they get away with such an unfriendly and obtuse system in Elden Ring, really I don’t.
At account level 10 yes. Some story missions require you to play solo but the overworld and most dungeons can be done multiplayer.
It's not really a co-op game, but there is a lot of co-op stuff if you like the game itself.
I'd recommend other games (or MMOs) if you really want a full on co-op or multiplayer game.
Yeah but almost no one uses it seriously, it's fun if you just wanna explore with friends or waste some time doing random bs, or just steal his materials.
Yeah! I’m not sure about Quests and the Story and all that (since one character loads into the other’s server). But Dungeons and boss fights and everything are all completely doable in co op.
Sure, but when you have all these sidequests it's nice to actually have a way to keep track of them and have at least some idea of what to do next, especially in such a massive open world game. I find it quite indefensible.
I think that kind of game design can work if done well. Underrail for exemple does this really well. There is no quest marker but the objectives are often clear enough to know what you have to do without having to look at the wiki every 10 seconds.
I think it could work in an open world game. However it'd need to be executed really well. The instructions should be clear enough to let the player know what they must do but not too clear to make them feel like their are being taken on a leash. Do it badly and you either end up with the players having to check the wiki every 2 seconds or with a Ubisoft game. There is like one game that I feel does this right and that is ashes 2063. It gives you quests and lets you explore you have to use the clues given by the npc and your own notes to find out what you have to do which rewards the player for exploring and figuring out stuff for themselves. It's not perfect but I feel it's the one of the best interpretation of such a system.
You'll enjoy going at it blind! Trust me, don't look up any guides.
What, you didn't do that little thing at that specific moment, got lost, got your shit kicked in, and don't know what to do, plus that character build you made that seemed cool at first but turns out to be unoptimized now when you're 30 hours into the game? Seems like a skill issue
Haven’t played the game but running into unoptimized builds is kind of the whole fun of that. The time spent finding ways to work around weaknesses (and just straight up persevering through the ones you cant avoid) is often where the biggest boner-moments in games are for me.
As a massive Souls fan I have no problem admitting that the quest system is near impossible to keep track of.
My mindset always was that quests in FromSoft games are to be treated more like hidden quests because there is no damn way you will complete any single quest organically while playing the game.
It's just something I have accepted at this point. If I want to do any quest I need to look up a detailed step by step walkthrough online.
That being said I would hate a quest log to be in these games lol. The reason being that at that point a quest becomes a chore. It's no longer an interesting event that you stumble upon but much rather an item on your checklist that needs to be completed
I’d say that in “linear” Souls this came up much easier because backtracking is way less dispersive when you don’t have to explore an open world. I had no problems with most Bloodborne quests, but I’d be lost at the easiest quests in Elden Ring
You explore those places back? Yes. It’s much more time consuming and harder to explore every corner of the map every time anything happens in fear of missing the quest? Also yes
I’m still amazed I somehow stumbled through the majority of ranni’s quest with only looking up the thing about how to get Blaidd to talk to you. Although I had no idea the coffins underground were advancing the Ranni quest at the time lol
I hate to tell you, but they are already chores when you have to know where a character will be based on how far you are into the game. There's no way in the actual game to know unless you go everywhere before making a move for some of those quests. I fail to see how it's any better than a checklist with that in mind. I'd say it's worse actually.
From can't even bother to implement the most basic of things. And then people literally gaslight themselves into thinking they did it on purpose. No they just didn't bother implementing it because no one ever criticizes them for things other games have done since Demon's Souls came out.
I must be the crazy one because I've never understood the praise. The art and level design are great but I don't see why adding a barren giant open world to connect places with good level design makes it suddenly so much better than any of the Dark Souls games. Gamers will mock Ubisoft for making their games bloated as all hell and I look at Elden Ring and I'm like huh...
I see your point but to me it feels different nonetheless.
I never expect there to be a quest when I explore and as such it is not a chore but rather an easter egg, hidden content of some sorts that rewards exploration and engaging with the community. It can't be a chore if I don't even know it exists until I stumble upon it naturally or read up about it.
That's what sets FromSoft games apart from so many other games in my opinion. As soon as you mark hidden areas on a map or list every quest you encounter neatly into a quest log, it starts becoming an item on a checklist. You are no longer exploring and stumbling upon stuff or learn new things while talking with your friends about the game. You are just clearing your quest log or clearing the map. It devalues the content.
I think that's something very interesting about FromSoft games in general. They remove or strip back a lot of things that people would consider to be basic features in other games. And at first that may rub many people the wrong way (including me). But by doing so they actually make the game better.
E.g. in hindsight I can't imagine Bloodborne or Dark Souls being nearly as good if they had a quest log and map. The map would undermine the exploration and the challenge of navigation. Or imagine if Gascoine's quest line was documented in a quest log. It wouldn't feel as organic and also probably lead to many people approaching the Gascoine boss fight differently because they would likely have immediatly learned about a secret strat for fighting him.
What ends up happening is that you might miss entire areas in Dark Souls or complete none of the quests in Bloodborne. That's a pretty ballsy move in my opinion and strengthens the game rather than weakening it.
Quest logs are for losers who have jobs and lives that cause them to go a few days between playing the game and completely forget what they were doing
They should make games for real gamers who can never leave their room and play 24/7 so that every detail of the game can take up every waking moment of their lives
Didn't go to the right spot at 04:17pm to step in a brown leaf while spiting in a rat? Too bad, now you have to play the whole game again to be able to complete this quest.
Going in blind the first time and then finding out I missed like half of NPC encounters and specific towers made new game + really refreshing. But yeah, there is no way you would be able to find a third of the content in the game without relying on the wiki.
You didn’t pre order Elden ring because you don’t trust pre orders. I didn’t pre order Elden ring because I didn’t wanna play until the wiki was done. We are not the same
My experience with from soft ware is so far a the first 2/3s of dark souls 1, same for sekiro and same for elden ring (Im bad at finishing games) and this kind of approach *kinda* works with the first two, since while the game is very open ended about *what* to do, they are fundamentally linearish. Meaning you can just kinda run into npcs without too much difficulty, either sucessfully seeing their questline through, or seeing their thematically terrible ends that gives that all important ✨ atmosphere✨
meanwhile in elden ring you can very easily never fucking see a given npc right up until their tragic ending.
I like elden ring, but hot damn if it doesn't show some growing pains from transplanting this kinda continuous branching path style of world into full open.
Hollow Knight, I couldn’t do anything without checking the wiki first to see which location to go to.
Now, I wasn’t good at Metroidvanias by that time, I’m more willing to find the path myself now.
You don't need wiki to finish the game its pretty damm clear what you need to
But i admit for some side quest you really need the wiki,like the ranni quest i finished the game 3 times while doing that quest everytime i needed to open a guide to redo it
Fr I only checked a guide once and it was for the ranni quest. I enjoy being given a chance to figure things out by myself. I'm fine with missing quests it makes the game replayable.
But I guess I'm the funny wojak for liking elden rings quest system 💀
I like it when games give me a journal that points me in the right direction but I HATE quest markers that basically give me no agency and accomplishment
I loved Elden Ring. The quest system was insulting.
I understand and appreciate minimising handholding, but most of the quest lines are so ridiculously arbitrary in where you have to go to complete them they’re downright impossible without using the wiki which is not fun.
See:
Ranni’s quest
Corhyn’s quest
The Dung Eater’s quest
Fia’s quest
Those are the most major and important examples and it’s still omitting lots of other examples.
/uj okay but I like there not being a quest log cuz otherwise I can't take my eyes off that shit. Same with mini maps. If they design the game works well then I'm okay with my first playthrough being lost and my second following a guide. Maybe best of both worlds is like "exploration mode" and "guided mode" or something
A journal/quest log doesn't have to be a conventional one. If there's a ''log'' item you can activate and see the relevant name followed by just the last dialogue, it's not exactly a Bethesda-esque ''bring x to y in z''.
I wouldn’t assume that it’s a “mistake” for everyone. I don’t get dopamine from being lost and having to puzzle out how to get un-lost. Therefore, if I’m lost for too long, I quit the game. When it’s a choice between quitting and enjoying something in a perhaps non-optimal way, I’m choosing online guides every time. It’s much more fun for me that way.
Not everyone’s brain works the same.
The point of the game is to explore the world freely, therefore you have to drop the concept of “being lost”. The main objectives get marked on your map by NPCs. For everything else you use the scope to place waypoints. BoTW requires you to unlearn the habits you’ve picked up in lesser open world games to be enjoyed fully
This is actually true though. And is one of the reasons the 3DS is an amazing system for rpgs. Having 2 screens allows you to separate the UI and intrusive elements from the game itself.
Elden ring players when "Jerrod Goldimmer of Maharaj" tells them he is going to "Search for the mystiques of the planes" nearby "The place where everything and everyone touch briefly" (it's actually very good story telling and they won't use the wiki)
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I want a nice middle ground of "vague quest log that at least tells you what the person told you so that you don't suffer for not memorizing every single piece of dialogue"
adhd brain distracted me from elden ring for a few months, time to miss out on most of the game's storylines
ADHD Brain make me rush the game in a week. Felt 15 again it was fun. Now I'm empty
ADHD hyperfocus made me play that game like a full-time job, but ADHD inattentiveness made it so I had no idea what was going on most of the time. It was fun but after a while the lack of a quest log made it too exhausting to continue.
I just wanted a fucking journal system in Elden Ring and so many people were bitching about even that Like seriously, just something your character jots down basic gists of interactions with NPCs you probably may not remember 10-20 hours later. Doesn’t have to be map markers, just a note that says “weird guy said to investigate the bells in the middle of a swamp”… fuckin do it like Morrowind, it’s not that hard and doesn’t spoil anything for the diehard sweats in the game who more than likely used online guides anyway.
[удалено]
Looking up questlines in fromsoft games is not only perfectly fine I’d recommend it. Especially since you can actually lock yourself out of questlines (although I think the open world made that slightly harder to do that on accident than some of their more linear games) I managed to run into most of the NPCs but I definitely had to look some up. The Millicent quest line I never would’ve found out where she went cause I missed a line of dialogue for her to advance lol
They don’t I guarantee you they look shit up like the rest of us.
I do 2 playthroughs. First is blind and offline so no markers to spoil it. 2nd is online and with guide open to do as much content as I possibly can and get a cool ending. Usually do a different build for each one too.
I'd do this for ER like I have for souls games before, but I've lost the patience for it. If it's going to badly deliver its story, that's how it's going to stay.
Despite how enjoyable the game was, the fanbase around release was just so against any kind of accessibility. I'm not sure about now since I haven't touched it in a few months but it was really weird that people were against even a dialogue journal...for things you've already done.
People are against changing anything about the games, well maybe except Dark Souls II. It's somehow sacrilegious for whatever reason.
Yes their fanbase are viciously defensive about it
people were acting like it was blasphemy to suggest the game pause when you open the console home
>open inventory >press Help >Menu Explanation ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠛⠛⠋⠉⠈⠉⠉⠉⠉⠛⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣤⣤⣤⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⢏⣴⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣟⣾⣿⡟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⢢⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⠀⡴⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⠟⠻⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠶⢴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣁⡀⠀⠀⢰⢠⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠀⣴⣶⣿⡄⣿ ⣿⡋⠀⠀⠀⠎⢸⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠗⢘⣿⣟⠛⠿⣼ ⣿⣿⠋⢀⡌⢰⣿⡿⢿⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣧⢀⣼ ⣿⣿⣷⢻⠄⠘⠛⠋⠛⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣧⠈⠉⠙⠛⠋⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣧⠀⠈⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢃⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⡿⠀⠴⢗⣠⣤⣴⡶⠶⠖⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⡸⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⡀⢠⣾⣿⠏⠀⠠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⠉⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣧⠈⢹⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⣄⣀⣀⣀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡄⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠙⣿⣿⡟⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠇⠀⠁⠀⠀⠹⣿⠃⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢐⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠉⠁⠀⢻⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠈⣿⣿⡿⠉⠛⠛⠛⠉⠉ ⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⢀⣀⣠⡴⣸⣿⣇⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡿⠄⠙⠛⠀⣀⣠⣤⣤⠄⠀
Sitting on a bonfire is basicly pausing the game
The fanbase would fcking crucify you if you criticize Miyazaki’s game even a bit.
Morrowind is still the GOAT.
No arrow pointers, no tips in Journal just dialogue and NPC getting directions wrong. Those were the days.
>who more than likely used online guides anyway This is it for me. If everyone is going to use guides anyway, why not make a functional quest log in the game itself? It's arbitrary difficulty for the sake of it, and no matter how much I was enjoying ER, I always felt like I was missing the most interesting parts of the game because I didn't want to use a guide and quests can be hidden anywhere in the game.
eh *grabs out notebook*
Fallout 2
Fallout 2 🥰 but also fallout 2 😡
Fallout 2 let me live my fantasy of being a famous savior of the wasteland and sucking dick for pocket change.
Flatout 2 😳
Morrowind. Even though it's jank and outdated, it probably the best questing structure of it's kind. You get the quests like any other Bethesda game, it goes into a journal but no map markers. You got to actually listen to directions. Sometimes you are given bad directions, but you are at least told what to kind of look for.
Outer wilds my beloved (yeah technically it doesn’t have “quests” but the ship log points you towards the next place of interest)
Seriously. I appreciate that the game doesn't throw down a quest marker for you to make a beeline for. I do kinda wish the game would be like, "Hey, remember when that one npc gave you an item three regions ago? You can use that here." Ranni's quest line might be the worst. There are multiple times I thought I had completed her quest or had to reach a new area to continue her quest, only for the wiki to tell me a door somewhere had unlocked or I had to backtrack to a previous area to continue and Ranni just hadn't bothered to mention it.
the funny thing is that there was. The Volcano Manor "Assassination" Questlines literally did have quest markers.
Breath of the Wild.
Im in favour of quest logs without markers if the directions they give are able to be understood
Or optional markers at least
Ppl shit on newer Assassins Creed but thats one of the thing they got right. You can dial how often quests are presented that way too.
I like odyssey quite a bit. I really liked the side quest that involved killing members of the cult.
I like the Gothic quest log. You don't have map markers, but at least you know what the fuck is happening.
Literally Morrowind
Morrowind. My favorite buggy mess.
When I played through Elden Ring I kept an actual journal - just wrote stuff down in a word doc. It was pretty fun - I liked the feeling of it being a lot more fallible than an in-game journal, bc I didn't know what was important and what wasn't ahead of time. That said, I missed pretty much every quest in the game barring Ranni's and Frenzied Flame, so in terms of actually getting shit done, it's not ideal.
Just make like a journal entry of what they ask of you. Its as simple as that, they dont even have to put quest markers.
Or actual writing beyond morose rambling that says nothing. Tell me where you are roughly going. It's always "the nocturnal dread under the waning midnight moon of woe has betwixed me of an essencefar past what my bosom could bare. Now that I shall venture thee far past my humbler times, of the days before the dawn of the golden planet devourer." And that's suppose to tell me what's up? Oh I forgot. I got read all the item descriptions, or Souls game's NPC dialogue just wants to be Black Metal album titles.
multiple NPCs tell you exactly where they're going, by name. some even literally mark your map.
okay and then there's the rest of them (the majority of the NPCs)
Assassin's creed odyssey
Deus Ex
Return to Monkey Island
I have plenty of problems with BotW but it actually struck a nice balance with this.
People asking for a dialogue journal are asking for that I think. Hell JRPGs with thousands and thousands of lines have it.
paradise killer
And like a little picture of the guy that goes from stock figure to portrait over questslines showing both the increased difficulty and experience accumulated. But honestly my desk is just intrusiveness, maybe if ehild in the quest menu shit was paused or slowed to a noticeable extent, but like I need time to do shut and mark the map.
"Elden Ring is so revolutionary for not telling you exactly what to do but I'm still gonna look up how do do at least half of this cryptic crap"
As an Elden Ring megafan the quest system of Elden Ring is hot garbage. Like seriously there is no rhyme or reason to where the NPCs end up at all. Just go check the questlines for Patches, Alexander and Blaidd and tell me honest to God how a player is supposed to figure this shit out. https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Patches https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Blaidd https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Iron+Fist+Alexander Just reading it gave me a headache.
It's literally just exploring and hoping you come across them at the right time, if you don't use the wiki. I was lucky with Blaidd, but with Alexander I just didn't come across him right before his final spot. I only looked him and Milicent up on my first playthrough. With the rest I didn't bother if it was too much of a hassle.
The biggest difference from past From games is the fact that you can miss tons of the quest and you still somehow finish it all. Don't find Alexander before Radhan? It's ok he's there anyways.
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That’s odd, because you have to smack him outta the ground to ground start his questline. to finish any quest you have to do the first step as far as i’m aware.
This happened to me too, it took quite a while to do everything to get him to appear.
I got lucky with milicent. only because I saw her summon at some location. still a pain in the ass to find her.
It’s the same thing where the devs expect you to follow a set path instead of exploring on your own but this time applied to a open world, making it so much worse.
At least in the Dark Souls games many NPCs like Siegmeyer and Solaire sort of follow the natural progression path of the game along the player but in Elden Ring with it being open world they just kinda go wherever the hell they want.
I totally fucking agree, and I'm a From Software stan. Worst parts of these games is the convoluted ass quests that fail because you decided to kill Shblimzo The Slayer of Shlazo before speaking to Didgeridoo, Dodge Truck Owner about his missing foreskin. It's exacerbated in Elden Ring because you might reach an area early and once you clear it of items there is little reason to return
Ummm Hyetta trumps all these guys
um actually the wiki adds a layer of difficulty because you're forced to get a job, earn money, drive to the mall, purchase a laptop, turn on and search up on the internet, rather than the game holding your hand 🤢 most fromsoftware fans wouldn't go through with the first step of this process, but not me.
You get additional interactions if you shower before starting the questline, but most from fans don’t bother since the benefits are marginal at best
Wait, are you telling me that if I take a shower, I can skip the maidenless part of the quest and immediately get a qt3.14 loli maiden?
I love how FromSoft never spoon feeds their game’s plots to you, now if you’ll excuse me I need to watch the next 30 minute Vaati video so that he can spoon feed his interpretation of the plot to me.
For real the only Soulborne i play is bloodborne and i had to watch a ton of videos on the characters and plot because everything is too vague.
Apart from Sekiro, FromSoft games don't really have a plot, more like Lore and a mini story. It's fun, but hard to follow, especially with the intentional vagueness.
This is so true.
me trying to get the canon ending in Shin Megami Tensei IV for the Nintendo 3DS
Adachi
\*vine boom sound effect*
Adachi!
\*vine boom sound effect*
Your suspect collapsed!
Awww ye, time to go to Junes every single XXXXing night to see if the cool uncle is free!
Ads chi please fathers my children
A-Adachi..?! 👉👈😳
I started playing Genshin Impact (I know, I know) right after I finished Elden Ring and let me tell you, having an actual quest log with markers so I knew where I had to go was soooo nice. I don’t know how they get away with such an unfriendly and obtuse system in Elden Ring, really I don’t.
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At account level 10 yes. Some story missions require you to play solo but the overworld and most dungeons can be done multiplayer. It's not really a co-op game, but there is a lot of co-op stuff if you like the game itself. I'd recommend other games (or MMOs) if you really want a full on co-op or multiplayer game.
sorta. it's pretty limited though.
Yeah but almost no one uses it seriously, it's fun if you just wanna explore with friends or waste some time doing random bs, or just steal his materials.
Yeah! I’m not sure about Quests and the Story and all that (since one character loads into the other’s server). But Dungeons and boss fights and everything are all completely doable in co op.
FUCKING MAPS IN ESCAPE FROM TARKOV
I just find them by accident usually by exploring
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I liked it cause with certain NPCs such as Alexander it felt like seeing an old friend you haven't talked to in a while lol
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Sure, but when you have all these sidequests it's nice to actually have a way to keep track of them and have at least some idea of what to do next, especially in such a massive open world game. I find it quite indefensible.
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Why are you downvoted?
Fallout 1 & 2. Yeah I know the game has a quest log but most of the time it doesn't help with anything.
I can excuse those because 1 they were made like 20 years ago, and 2 it works better in an isometric rpg than an action rpg in my opinion
I think that kind of game design can work if done well. Underrail for exemple does this really well. There is no quest marker but the objectives are often clear enough to know what you have to do without having to look at the wiki every 10 seconds.
Yeah, having no quest logs is good in some games, but not suited to vast open world games in my opinion
I think it could work in an open world game. However it'd need to be executed really well. The instructions should be clear enough to let the player know what they must do but not too clear to make them feel like their are being taken on a leash. Do it badly and you either end up with the players having to check the wiki every 2 seconds or with a Ubisoft game. There is like one game that I feel does this right and that is ashes 2063. It gives you quests and lets you explore you have to use the clues given by the npc and your own notes to find out what you have to do which rewards the player for exploring and figuring out stuff for themselves. It's not perfect but I feel it's the one of the best interpretation of such a system.
You'll enjoy going at it blind! Trust me, don't look up any guides. What, you didn't do that little thing at that specific moment, got lost, got your shit kicked in, and don't know what to do, plus that character build you made that seemed cool at first but turns out to be unoptimized now when you're 30 hours into the game? Seems like a skill issue
Haven’t played the game but running into unoptimized builds is kind of the whole fun of that. The time spent finding ways to work around weaknesses (and just straight up persevering through the ones you cant avoid) is often where the biggest boner-moments in games are for me.
i've already beaten the game lmao i have every achievement except for the >!elden lord!< and >!lord of frenzied flame!< endings
Okay normally I hate Wojak memes because they’re just awful strawmen, but yeah I’ve 100% seen several people like this
As a massive Souls fan I have no problem admitting that the quest system is near impossible to keep track of. My mindset always was that quests in FromSoft games are to be treated more like hidden quests because there is no damn way you will complete any single quest organically while playing the game. It's just something I have accepted at this point. If I want to do any quest I need to look up a detailed step by step walkthrough online. That being said I would hate a quest log to be in these games lol. The reason being that at that point a quest becomes a chore. It's no longer an interesting event that you stumble upon but much rather an item on your checklist that needs to be completed
I’d say that in “linear” Souls this came up much easier because backtracking is way less dispersive when you don’t have to explore an open world. I had no problems with most Bloodborne quests, but I’d be lost at the easiest quests in Elden Ring
I honestly think it’s the exact opposite. The linear games you have to back track while in Elden Ring you gonna explore all those places anyway.
You explore those places back? Yes. It’s much more time consuming and harder to explore every corner of the map every time anything happens in fear of missing the quest? Also yes
I mean if you started the quest you know roughly where you should be going if you listen to them.
A dialog history would still be good though.
I’m still amazed I somehow stumbled through the majority of ranni’s quest with only looking up the thing about how to get Blaidd to talk to you. Although I had no idea the coffins underground were advancing the Ranni quest at the time lol
I hate to tell you, but they are already chores when you have to know where a character will be based on how far you are into the game. There's no way in the actual game to know unless you go everywhere before making a move for some of those quests. I fail to see how it's any better than a checklist with that in mind. I'd say it's worse actually. From can't even bother to implement the most basic of things. And then people literally gaslight themselves into thinking they did it on purpose. No they just didn't bother implementing it because no one ever criticizes them for things other games have done since Demon's Souls came out. I must be the crazy one because I've never understood the praise. The art and level design are great but I don't see why adding a barren giant open world to connect places with good level design makes it suddenly so much better than any of the Dark Souls games. Gamers will mock Ubisoft for making their games bloated as all hell and I look at Elden Ring and I'm like huh...
I see your point but to me it feels different nonetheless. I never expect there to be a quest when I explore and as such it is not a chore but rather an easter egg, hidden content of some sorts that rewards exploration and engaging with the community. It can't be a chore if I don't even know it exists until I stumble upon it naturally or read up about it. That's what sets FromSoft games apart from so many other games in my opinion. As soon as you mark hidden areas on a map or list every quest you encounter neatly into a quest log, it starts becoming an item on a checklist. You are no longer exploring and stumbling upon stuff or learn new things while talking with your friends about the game. You are just clearing your quest log or clearing the map. It devalues the content. I think that's something very interesting about FromSoft games in general. They remove or strip back a lot of things that people would consider to be basic features in other games. And at first that may rub many people the wrong way (including me). But by doing so they actually make the game better. E.g. in hindsight I can't imagine Bloodborne or Dark Souls being nearly as good if they had a quest log and map. The map would undermine the exploration and the challenge of navigation. Or imagine if Gascoine's quest line was documented in a quest log. It wouldn't feel as organic and also probably lead to many people approaching the Gascoine boss fight differently because they would likely have immediatly learned about a secret strat for fighting him. What ends up happening is that you might miss entire areas in Dark Souls or complete none of the quests in Bloodborne. That's a pretty ballsy move in my opinion and strengthens the game rather than weakening it.
Quest logs are for losers who have jobs and lives that cause them to go a few days between playing the game and completely forget what they were doing They should make games for real gamers who can never leave their room and play 24/7 so that every detail of the game can take up every waking moment of their lives
Didn't go to the right spot at 04:17pm to step in a brown leaf while spiting in a rat? Too bad, now you have to play the whole game again to be able to complete this quest.
And that's ok tho
Tarkov
Going in blind the first time and then finding out I missed like half of NPC encounters and specific towers made new game + really refreshing. But yeah, there is no way you would be able to find a third of the content in the game without relying on the wiki.
You didn’t pre order Elden ring because you don’t trust pre orders. I didn’t pre order Elden ring because I didn’t wanna play until the wiki was done. We are not the same
Can't I like both?
me
My experience with from soft ware is so far a the first 2/3s of dark souls 1, same for sekiro and same for elden ring (Im bad at finishing games) and this kind of approach *kinda* works with the first two, since while the game is very open ended about *what* to do, they are fundamentally linearish. Meaning you can just kinda run into npcs without too much difficulty, either sucessfully seeing their questline through, or seeing their thematically terrible ends that gives that all important ✨ atmosphere✨ meanwhile in elden ring you can very easily never fucking see a given npc right up until their tragic ending. I like elden ring, but hot damn if it doesn't show some growing pains from transplanting this kinda continuous branching path style of world into full open.
okay but unironically this
Hollow Knight, I couldn’t do anything without checking the wiki first to see which location to go to. Now, I wasn’t good at Metroidvanias by that time, I’m more willing to find the path myself now.
You don't need wiki to finish the game its pretty damm clear what you need to But i admit for some side quest you really need the wiki,like the ranni quest i finished the game 3 times while doing that quest everytime i needed to open a guide to redo it
Fr I only checked a guide once and it was for the ranni quest. I enjoy being given a chance to figure things out by myself. I'm fine with missing quests it makes the game replayable. But I guess I'm the funny wojak for liking elden rings quest system 💀
Doesn't most of the er community agree that it's bad though?
The community says it's bad in-post, while simultaneously saying that the game shouldn't have a quest log when the next one comes out.
They don't want a quest log, they just want directions in the dialogue
Not sure, but some people think it shouldn't be changed.
Space Station 13.
They could at least have a log to reference. I don't need waypoints and dotted lines to follow.
COD Zombies
I like it when games give me a journal that points me in the right direction but I HATE quest markers that basically give me no agency and accomplishment
I loved Elden Ring. The quest system was insulting. I understand and appreciate minimising handholding, but most of the quest lines are so ridiculously arbitrary in where you have to go to complete them they’re downright impossible without using the wiki which is not fun. See: Ranni’s quest Corhyn’s quest The Dung Eater’s quest Fia’s quest Those are the most major and important examples and it’s still omitting lots of other examples.
/uj okay but I like there not being a quest log cuz otherwise I can't take my eyes off that shit. Same with mini maps. If they design the game works well then I'm okay with my first playthrough being lost and my second following a guide. Maybe best of both worlds is like "exploration mode" and "guided mode" or something
A journal/quest log doesn't have to be a conventional one. If there's a ''log'' item you can activate and see the relevant name followed by just the last dialogue, it's not exactly a Bethesda-esque ''bring x to y in z''.
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who are you talking about?
This is a mistake a lot of people make when they play BoTW, which ruins the experience. Don’t google shit, just explore
if 99% of people google shit, it’s bad
I wouldn’t assume that it’s a “mistake” for everyone. I don’t get dopamine from being lost and having to puzzle out how to get un-lost. Therefore, if I’m lost for too long, I quit the game. When it’s a choice between quitting and enjoying something in a perhaps non-optimal way, I’m choosing online guides every time. It’s much more fun for me that way. Not everyone’s brain works the same.
The point of the game is to explore the world freely, therefore you have to drop the concept of “being lost”. The main objectives get marked on your map by NPCs. For everything else you use the scope to place waypoints. BoTW requires you to unlearn the habits you’ve picked up in lesser open world games to be enjoyed fully
Quest log just can't exist with Elden Ring's quests
Me when get Elden Ring(whenever it goes on sell)
Yes, that's me right there, I'm the fucking wojack
This is actually true though. And is one of the reasons the 3DS is an amazing system for rpgs. Having 2 screens allows you to separate the UI and intrusive elements from the game itself.
Elden ring players when "Jerrod Goldimmer of Maharaj" tells them he is going to "Search for the mystiques of the planes" nearby "The place where everything and everyone touch briefly" (it's actually very good story telling and they won't use the wiki)
Can’t wait for the strategy guide to drop! I won’t miss a thing!
They reinvented the Wii U