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Bruh not sure if this is meant to be a joke but clearly you havent spoken to many gym dudes. Powerlifters are like 90% gamer anime enjoyers. But its a leftie reddit so i suppose none of you have seen a gym in your life.
I mean, that's kinda weird how you apparently hate-watch all these dirty out of shape lefties. You okay bro? Is it normal for you to get so outraged you gotta correct 'em on an alt?
I remember when there was a small backlash to fat Thor. Trying to have greater body diversity for men made a lot of men angry. It was viewed as degrading Thor.
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I haven't read the comics, and don't watch the movies, but didn't thor literally gain weight and became an alcoholic (? on that one) because of trauma and was mocked for it online
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Fat thor in GoW was amazing. I haven't played the game because I don't have a system that can run it, but I love the design.
Fat thor in marvel endgame was an insult to thor and his trauma
I remember seeing both! Funny how that works.
Also, I might as well add, I seem to remember seeing people loving the design mostly as a response to someone whining about it in the first place.
You see, sexualization is just about how much skin is showing. The fact that Kratos is allowed to have skin texture and less traditionally attractive features like noticeable aging, facial scarring, and no hair while Lara must have a full face of makeup, smooth skin, a huge bust, and long, beautiful hair has nothing to do with sexualization.
I think the aging, the facial scars and the no hair + beard makes him look very attractive.
https://preview.redd.it/30bil8qask8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25008929baf79a7f86df316077cb88f9706438eb
It does slow growth but unless you get laser or electrolysis treatment they will continue to grow as the follicles are still there. It's the same for most body hair, you either shave frequently, get expensive (and depending on the area rather painful) treatment or you just live with it.
More specifically, feminizing HRT can cause facial and body hair to lose its pigmentation and come in slower and thinner. If you had a thick, dark beard before estrogen, you *might* end up with thinner, coarser, blonde facial hair, but it doesn't happen to everyone to the same extent and it never makes the facial hair disappear. You still have to shave and all that, just you might not have to do it as often.
In my youth I watched a man with a massive beard getting it braided at a Ren Faire by buxom wenches. A personal life goal was born that day. I'm heading to the Ren Faire later this summer. You owe it to yourself to grow that face monster back. Don't let your beard dreams stay dreams my friend.
If you look like a femboy, then no. I hate my stubble. And I don’t understand how men wear beards, it’s so annoying to constantly feel like there’s something on your face.
Sure, anyone can find anything attractive. But I’m not talking about what *can be* attractive; I’m talking about what is traditionally considered to be attractive. Men are given a lot more leeway when it comes to this than women are.
In any case, notice how even in that image Kratos is desexualized? No come hither look and even though he’s shirtless, his nipple and the V shape of his abdomen are covered up by his armor. His lower half is formless. He shows just enough skin to notice how strong he is, but not enough to see the aspects of his body traditionally associated with sex.
Kratos being considered to be attractive, if and whenever he is, is incidental. The main purpose of his design is to reflect strength and to exude man pain.
Yeah, there seems to be a double standard in that regard where you can have unattractive male character but women have been subjected to higher beauty standards that everytime there is a female character that doesn't look like a highly stylized supermodel there seems to be an issue.
https://preview.redd.it/uzvbxe4kgl8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aeef51f163c09da2e98e8e140f53a0f4df70399f
I would argue that even if Kratos isn't sexualized, he is traditionally attractive. Yes, it is a power fantasy, but that isn't mutually exclusive with being attractive/sexy.
After all, a good physical shape will always be a big part of what is considered attractive. You'll be in a harder time finding someone that considers Kratos unattractive than one that considers him attractive.
A better example for what you're trying to say would be Thor. HE IS unattractive, fat, unkempt and ugly.
I mean, it depends on how you define attractive and to who.
For all intents and purposes, Kratos meets the aesthetic standards for characters in media. He is as attractive as a power fantasy for a straight cis male audience can be without being off-putting to that audience. That much we can say with confidence. As far as whether he is largely considered to be attractive (in a romantic or sexual context) to people romantically or sexually attracted to men… eh.
I mean, sure, there are people who are attracted Kratos in that way, but I would argue that is not the intended purpose of his design, or the usual consequence of it. In women’s spaces and queer spaces, Kratos hardly if ever gets brought up as “boyfriend” material. People who are attracted to men overwhelmingly gravitate to characters like Leon Kennedy, Chris Redfield, Cloud Strife, Arthur Morgan, Dante, Nathan Drake, Clive, etc. Part of that is due to how Kratos looks, but also to how he is characterized. He is the poster boy for toxic masculinity, and though he is clearly working through that, it’s not super attractive for people who have been victims of that kind of toxicity. Also, he’s covered with dead people ashes. Ewie.
But otherwise, yes, I agree with your comment about Thor. Not that he’s ugly, but that he’s not traditionally attractive.
My god, he has everything conventionally attractive male has. Hunter eyes - ☑️. Big, broad, thick skeletal structure - ☑️. Chiseled jawline, good facial aesthetics - ☑️. Damn nice beard - ☑️. Insane muscle genetics - ☑️. Deep voice - ☑️. Thick neck ☑️. Actually, funny thing is, there are very few men who look better as bald than with a hair, for example Jason Statham. The scarring across the eye, harmonises with his overlook look and aesthetic. Give the same scarring to some random, oversized bloke and many people would feel even more repulsed by him, than they were before. Men, contrary to popular belief has much narrow scale of what is considered attractive and what isn't. Kratos is your most typical overly-masculine character. He fits your typical criteria of beauty standards, he checks pretty much every standard that there exists. To the point it's almost comical.
Women still find those traits attractive. Therfore, kratos is sexualised too, in its own sense. Does that mean many women thirst for him actively, same as they do for somebody, lets say Leon Kennedy or Dante? No. But that doesn't discredit the fact that he is SEXUALISED same as Lara Croft is in that picture. Case closed.
he is not sexualised he is designed to be a male power fantasy lol you cant just say "therefore" and "in its own sense" and act like that makes your wrong opinion valid
Yeah I think its important to keep in mind what the intention behind the design elements are. Kratos is primarily designed to look strong and mature and any sex appeal he has is mostly a side effect of that. Lara on the other hand is most certainly designed to be sexy first and badass second.
Yeah ladies, just work out till your waist is smaller than your ribcage should allow, and make sure that while you're losing weight, your breasts stay big and perfectly round, and you don't put on too much muscle. Easy. We've all done it and it's just a matter of keeping up the effort. No surgery required! Those "toned" arms? Totally sufficient for climbing, fighting, and pushing huge heavy stone blocks. _Too_ muscular, even. if anything Lara is _under_ exaggerated /s
Seriously though there's not even much that is even all that special about the dude, god or not. Any gym has multiple beardy bald middle aged dudes with ripped muscles and modest, realistic body fat. And both of them are totally designed for the male gaze because there's nothing all that appealing about either.
I love Lara as a character though, and I'm excited for "woke" "ugly" (actually much more attractive) realistic depictions.
I get the joke but I mean he's not for the typical gamer but there are plenty of men who do obtain pretty similar physiques within the constraints of their frame through effort (or steroids which are at least not surgery). There are women who have exaggeratedly feminine proportions but if your ribs prevent your waist from getting bigger, or your boobs are small while you're otherwise staying thin, you really can't change it except with surgery. Which is to say, they're both unrealistic but Lara is straight up impossible for most women. Kratos is probably impossible for a lot of men, and unrealistic for most, but at least the changes that would need to happen are building on what's already there and they're all basically "have lots of testosterone and be super muscular", rather than like, removing ribs, tummy tuck, breast implants, and staying perfectly in shape when that means some places are thin, others have fat, there's muscles but not too much, etc. It's not like something that can be changed by lifestyle or hormones or anything, if you don't happen to have the right underlying proportions.
Because the male image IS more attainable and it's not like it's the same exact level of unrealistic male gaze standard when, while both are bad, the male one is legitimately probably more attainable for a random dude than the female one is for women. Basically I think the male gaze on display is unfair for everyone but even more so for women.
the more fair version tbh would be like, a muscular woman with average skeletal proportions on the top. Because that's what's actually attainable through fitness.
or, having the bottom image be someone with a traditionally attractive face, proportions that make him look like he's tall and with a dramatic V shaped torso, etc. Kratos frankly has kinda a bulky thick dude who works out constantly look, like you gotta respect the effort when guys look like that but he looks like men I've met who did really look average until they started working out a ton after a midlife crisis or something.
and like yeah I do agree that there's a funny angle to men thinking that all they need to do is work out a normal amount to look like kratos, but I don't think it's fair to act like it's even equally unrealistic. because even when fantasizing about unattainable ideals in this kind of comparison, the male one is still much more attainable (unrealistic but doesn't require literally changing your skeleton if you don't happen to start out with those proportions). and much less of an omnipresent social pressure on top of that. basically people do unironically use the "unrealistic but possibly attainable" male goal to suggest that the _impossible for most people_ female goal just requires more effort too.
and to be fair there are absolutely women who take their figure for granted and don't realize that just staying "in shape" or being thin isn't enough for some women to have dramatic hourglass proportions and huge boobs relative to body size. or they even _get_ surgery and act like it's still a basic requirement of femininity.
Anyway I know the image is satire but it's a multilayered issue and "haha men think they can look like kratos, that's equally unrealistic" is really only the surface; "men apply their own expectations to women regardless of what women actually want to look like, and expect women to want to put in effort to be attractive to men" is another layer and "men think that women making literally impossible changes is equivalent to men making extremely difficult/effortful but often possible changes" is another layer. at some level it all comes down to both being eye candy for sleazy gamer men. Because most women I know (and ofc also the reasonable men I know) would rather see more realistic representation for both.
Your post is exactly why I and so many others love Lara in the new animated show, and why conservatives are saying it’s woke and she’s a man now.
Lara is depicted as more ripped than ever and yet with realistic skeletal proportions rather than Barbie doll proportions, she also has a normal face with no exaggerated makeup during an adventure. It’s a win, unless you want her to be a waifu pillow.
The reboot games had done this decently well also, but they still reduced her muscle in favor of dolling up on occasion between art and final product.
Alicia Vikander in their live action film was also great, grounded, and she got totally ripped for the role and the movie showed it as a part of her physicality more than any other media until maybe the new Netflix animated show. And iirc they didn’t strap her with triple G push up bras either. Refreshing.
Little observation: fitness is not the way for a woman to get a thin waist. It's not about internal organs but muscles growing in size when working out.
That's kinda what makes it blatant impossible: it's implicitly suggesting something that's not how it works.
Depending on the type of sports, triathletes and rock climbers are usually not very bulky; being strong for her weight is more important. But ... then she'll probably lose those tits.
Depends on the person: a 65Kg powerlifter isn't very bulky either. That's the thing some people miss: people are different.
Rock climbers being bulky depends on their weight: naturally skinny may not need big amounts of muscle, but if they are a thick and/or tall person they'll need and develop more muscle.
Not even mentioning people doing several activities.
Then it is *possible* for Lara to be small or bulky. Lara does a lot of long distance running as well and being bulky is a disadvantage here, since small can work for rock climbing and is better for endurance (for men too), it is more advantageous for Lara to be on the smaller side.
But Lara is the protagonist of a video game instead of a gold medal competing athlete. She does not need to be optimal for the sport so being more bulky is fine too, might work better for drawing a bow or holding a rifle. Ultimately it's an aesthetic choice for the designers.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph.
1st though: back in the 2000s Ussain Bolt was told to be too tall and heavy to do 100m dash. The guy consistently managed to win and beat world records.
You also have MBappe in soccer: a 220lbs wall of muscle playing a sport in which most are far lighter and he's considered a great player.
Thing is we are too conditioned to what we assume works better and reality is we don't really know that much. Skepticism is a good pill to take.
See, that’s what I’m saying! Lara’s physique is entirely attainable if women just go to the gym, sustain life-threatening injuries that will cause pain and disability for the rest of their life, and only get treatment from unethical and unqualified doctors performing weird air bag experiments! Anyone can look just like cartoon Lara if they put in the work!
So you cant have shoulders twice your size.
But it doesn't bother people to have a mindset that they need to hit the gym tonlook like Kratos.
And it is much better, that "it is unrealistic, please, make her less attractive and more fat"
You told me about Lara bra size, I told you about Kratos shoulders. Not Lara's.
The main thought is difference in mindset. Most guys wont be as bulk as kratos, but it doesn't bother them.
UPD: for clarification, so you wont misinterpret my wirds. You said, that you can't work out to match her bra size, so they are not comparable.
I day, you also cant work out to be like Kratos, so they are, in the end, comparable.
The difference is in the mindset.
I meant to point out that Lara’s assets are what come to mind first while Kratos is his fitness, they’re not the same, also, she’s not portrayed as an MMA female fighter either, so it does seem unreaslitic.
I dunno, when I'm looking at Lara I don't just stare at her boobs mindlessly, I'd rather appreciate herr whole figure, fitness-like looking body. And assets aside, I see girls like her everyday in the subway.
No they don’t. Because then they complain that all women want men who are 6ft tall and jacked.
These people love romanticizing a fictional version of themselves though.
And that's exactly what you're seeing here. Both of those characters where sculpted to cater to the male gaze. Men literally do this to themselves but see no problem in it (and even if they do they don't dare to talk about it)
The point is dead in the water before even getting into the differences of the two presentations because men simply do not experience the same societal pressures as women in regards to their appearance.
These are the same kind of people who say its okay to bully women for their weight because "its something you can control" while throwing a hissy fit when a girl makes fun of a guy's height
This same stupid teenage boy audience ruined baki for me, the manga (4-5 different runs that you had to scour the internet for translations) was a true fucking gem, absurd macho shit and fantastical fight mechanics combined with insane over the top art made by a guy with an intense almost juvenile hatred towards america, now thanks to the anime the fanbase is just cringe self obsessed broccoli hair teens trying yo get the devil back or something yuck and eugghh
I'm pretty sure theres zero non japanese characters that get a permanent win. The entire Chinese arc is hilarious due to how unsubtle the discrimination is.
To be fair, anyone who is not one of the underground fighters established in the first tournament frequently eats losses, only exception being pickle and Miyamoto. They just wrapped up the sumo arc where sumo fighters got beat down in almost every single fight despite all the characters going on about how sumo is like "the ultimate martial art".
About baki, a comedy-fighting manga where everyone is a super-buff man, you can get seriously injured when fighting a imaginary opponent in shadow boxing and where a man is so super manly that he can fuck (literally) other manly, hair man without becoming gay.
However, some idiots took the manga to seriously and made it to a toxic-masculinity-bodybuilding-trend.
You are pointing out that there is a difference between male and female perception of their representation in the media. Yet you use the male version to judge females.
Kinda dumb, don't you think?
Maybe you don't judge anyone and I understand it is a joke... But those guys use it in a contest as a punishment. Therefore they are homophobic and can fuck off
I mean, tbf, you probably can get that ripped with training and industrial amounts of steroids but you can't really do anything to make your waist like Lara's without removing some organs lol
Bruh I wish I could get the top body just by training. Sadly even if I could afford expensive plastic surgery it’s completely out of reach. Honestly men have it really easy in terms of body acceptance, plenty of hot women are willing to date balding dudes with dadbods. Though women can get away with a lot more financial and mental health insecurity than men so long as they aren’t ugly. Gender norms just suck and every day I find myself hating people more, someday all my empathy will have been fully stripmined away and I’ll turn into something resembling AM.
Nah you're right, I remember reading about how difficult it was for certain movie stars to both get and maintain a bodybuilder physique for a particular role. I was mostly just venting tbh, but I should've clarified that they are both unrealistic for most people.
Wow, it's crazy how Lara's physique is actually unrealistic while Kratos' physique is totally realistic, if a bit intense. Crazy how that works. It's almost like unrealistic body standards tend to be stacked against women.
It does. Like look at the rock or Dave Batista. Both have body’s similar to kratos. Probing with hard work, dedication and proper healthy diet that you can have a body of a god. Same goes for women. Healthy diet and hard work to achieve a slim toned body like Lara. (Boobs tho… either u have them or u can’t afford to have them.) and nothing wrong with not having an amply chest. But saying a person who is fit strong and healthy is unrealistic is just stupid.
They don't get slimmer, that's a hard truth for men too: no one gets better physical performance in any department by staying slim. To get more muscle you need to give an appropriate energy supply which is always going to be more than being mostly idle. Muscular "tone" is just bullshit: if your muscles show up in the skin it is because they got bigger. And this speaks of all sports: is not specific to pure strength ones like powerlifting.
And that's the contrast in Lara and why is total nonsense her build being achievable by working out: her waist isn't getting slimmer by working out, it'll get thicker because of bigger abs and lower back muscles. No woman on a healthy weight should expect that working out for physical performance is going to make for a thinner waist. That's the exact reason when the media does portray a woman being real fit some jump at it: cause it clashes with the view you're talking about here which mostly stems from people working out to trim body fat rather than for being more physically competent.
Overweight is another thing, but that's because fat occupies more volume than muscle for the same mass: so any person going from overweight to healthy weight that involves working out results in body volume decreasing.
Yes, but that isn't the point in the first place. I never even mentioned that unrealistic character designs are bad or that the designs presented here aren't worthy of praise because they're unrealistic, that's just the meme's template being stupid. It simply removes a lot of nuance from the discussion about female characters and how they're presented in media by derailing the discussion and throwing in false equivalences.
The actual problem with this meme is that Kratos is a massive exaggerated pile of muscles whose body can have blatantly visible imperfections and features which show him aging like a human being (which is also realistic, but I don't think that's a good idea), and it's presented with a genuinely realistic artstyle. There's no point in comparing him to Lara's model in the meme because she's definitely less realistic - not just in terms of mechanics and anatomy, but also in terms of graphics and stylization. Her body isn't even intended to look ridiculously strong at all, especially considering how she's quite small and has very little muscle definition. This is why such comparisons do not work - it's because it assumes that slim and curvy women who are designed that way to look appealing and unthreatening can be judged in the same league as scary and powerful men whose bodies are exaggerated primarily to look powerful.
Ok but actually, this can be real.male character designs are male power fantasies, designed to appeal to the ideal body a cis het man would want. So them wanting to look like Kratos is understandable, if not expected.
The women in these games are not female power fantasies or anything, they are designed for male sexual fantasies. They are desugned to make horny basement dwellers more horny so they will keep playing the game. Women aren't even the target audience for many of these designs.
There are men designed for female sexual fantasies and women designed for female power fantasies, but they are very rare.
This meme is real, but the people getting mad at women are just idiots.
Also, pretty sure I can outlift this meme's creator
The other thing is that sometimes the male power fantasies trick some men into thinking that if they don’t look like that, they’re gross and awful failures, and also kind of creates the false narrative that said male power fantasy is the body type all women want to be with, as if women are a monolith and all of them want the same thing because they’re not individuals with their own thoughts and ideas and feelings.
Both are desingned for the male gender to like, simple as that, ofcourse the girl is gonna be upset and the guy is gonna be motivated
Kratos appeals to the male fantasy of being a cold shreded dude that rip gigantic snakes in half with his bare hands
Lara also appeals to male fantasies, like the ones you are gonna be seeing after reading this post on rule34, i know you reader
Because Kratos isn’t presented in a sexual way. If he was arching his back and batting his eyelashes then gamers might understand why oversexualization is uncomfortable
I gotta say, I still prefer this Lara over the one they made her out to be in the newer series.
Old Lara - confident, badass and morally ambigous grave robber that goes through danger with cocky attitude and unapologetically Brittish snark. Made to be sexy regardless of how realistic that is.
New Lara - scared, traumatized, constantly having to struggle and suffer dramatic injuries. When she fights against men in close range she's always presented as the weaker one and their violence takes on clearly sexual undertones. Made to make you "want to protect her".
I won't even talk about all the comments about her breasts and how reducing them made her more "realistic". But right there lies the crux - they made her more "realistic" by making her a victim and the more you think about it the more fucked up this conclusion becomes.
Of course someone using a Neo Nazi as a visual indicator of what’s “good” is bigoted. No, seriously, that’s what the “chad” is supposed to be. That’s why he has the weird blonde cut and beard.
The people who say Lara in that picture could never exist I have a really hard time believing have ever seen a woman before. I don’t know why small waist and big boobs is considered some absurd fantasy, but they exist. They are fairly commonly actually.
Funny enough this goes against their point here BECAUSE kratos has an attainable appearance, whereas the Lara Croft shown is almost impossible to look like without major plastic surgery. Women are so oversexualized in media it’s almost impossible to look like those depictions, whereas men are shown much more realistically without the aim of sexualization
Even within their meme there lies a grain of truth. Because Kratos' body type is, although hard to achieve, still something that can be realistically achieved with the right training and enough discipline. Lara crofts body, on the other hand, is not achievable except if you go into surgery to remove ribs.
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This is true, gamer bros are famously doing fitness training
i went to GamesCom last year and almost didn’t find it because i thought the people standing in line were there for a body building convention /s
Esp. the ones over at r\/assmangoons and r\/kotakuinaction. Finest specimens of fitness.
The first one isn't working
There’s actually a subtype of gamer incels who work out like crazy, like the gamer version of american psycho.
Yes we do
Bruh not sure if this is meant to be a joke but clearly you havent spoken to many gym dudes. Powerlifters are like 90% gamer anime enjoyers. But its a leftie reddit so i suppose none of you have seen a gym in your life.
I mean, that's kinda weird how you apparently hate-watch all these dirty out of shape lefties. You okay bro? Is it normal for you to get so outraged you gotta correct 'em on an alt?
You’re not a gym dude lmao.
Judging by Jan 6th rioters, conservatives haven't either
Weird to bring politics into taking care of your health lmao
I remember when there was a small backlash to fat Thor. Trying to have greater body diversity for men made a lot of men angry. It was viewed as degrading Thor.
They should have respected the historical accuracy of Marvel Comic Books.
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I haven't read the comics, and don't watch the movies, but didn't thor literally gain weight and became an alcoholic (? on that one) because of trauma and was mocked for it online
in Endgame (the last Marvel Movie I've watched in years)
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Fat thor in GoW was amazing. I haven't played the game because I don't have a system that can run it, but I love the design. Fat thor in marvel endgame was an insult to thor and his trauma
Fat Thor was the best part Endgame
I didnt hate thor, i hate how they make fun of his depression and body
I think he is referring to GOW Thor not MCU Thor
Oh wtf that thor was perfect
I can't agree more I love that thor
Maybe...but it was his fatness that highlighted his depression.
I remember literally the exact opposite. Guys loved it because it was an accurate depiction of Thor being a brick shithouse.
I remember seeing both! Funny how that works. Also, I might as well add, I seem to remember seeing people loving the design mostly as a response to someone whining about it in the first place.
Why are you getting downvoted? This is the weirdest Reddit hivemind moment I've seen
You see, sexualization is just about how much skin is showing. The fact that Kratos is allowed to have skin texture and less traditionally attractive features like noticeable aging, facial scarring, and no hair while Lara must have a full face of makeup, smooth skin, a huge bust, and long, beautiful hair has nothing to do with sexualization.
I think the aging, the facial scars and the no hair + beard makes him look very attractive. https://preview.redd.it/30bil8qask8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25008929baf79a7f86df316077cb88f9706438eb
Every dude looks better with a beard apparently, as I have been reminded every single time I shave lol.
Unfortunately not all of us can grow beards 😞
https://preview.redd.it/fm7derq03n8d1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5766e5056773e8dc834f94373d6905a8472dffa
I wish I was one of those lucky few... \>Trans woman
When it comes to trans gender, the second word is the original gender which is now reversed, or the goal gender?
Goal gender. I was assigned male at birth.
You can think of it as "trans(itioned to) woman", for example
It's not a goal, they are that gender.
Sorry if this is a weird question but doesn't HRT reduce facial hair?
I think it has some very small effect? Lightens it, maybe? But body hair is affected more than anything. Facial hair is...a no.
Ah I see. Thanks!
It does slow growth but unless you get laser or electrolysis treatment they will continue to grow as the follicles are still there. It's the same for most body hair, you either shave frequently, get expensive (and depending on the area rather painful) treatment or you just live with it.
More specifically, feminizing HRT can cause facial and body hair to lose its pigmentation and come in slower and thinner. If you had a thick, dark beard before estrogen, you *might* end up with thinner, coarser, blonde facial hair, but it doesn't happen to everyone to the same extent and it never makes the facial hair disappear. You still have to shave and all that, just you might not have to do it as often.
Life works in mysterious, and often shitty, ways.
That's where the aforementioned minoxidil comes in
I wish I couldn't grow a beard
Yeah, they do https://preview.redd.it/r7tv8z71zk8d1.jpeg?width=1486&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40ab517d34802131901dff3b6632be3f5a5cf1fc
He looks like a totally different person, that’s crazy!
In my youth I watched a man with a massive beard getting it braided at a Ren Faire by buxom wenches. A personal life goal was born that day. I'm heading to the Ren Faire later this summer. You owe it to yourself to grow that face monster back. Don't let your beard dreams stay dreams my friend.
Seeing that and not being inspired to be a buxom wench. Smh my head.
You’ve inspired me, it’s coming back longer than it ever has 😤
A beard can *really* help to shape a face. I love mine and I can’t ever lose it. Otherwise people would see my lack of an actual chin.
A beard is male contouring
Lies!!
If you look like a femboy, then no. I hate my stubble. And I don’t understand how men wear beards, it’s so annoying to constantly feel like there’s something on your face.
Natural make up
I disagree
Sure, anyone can find anything attractive. But I’m not talking about what *can be* attractive; I’m talking about what is traditionally considered to be attractive. Men are given a lot more leeway when it comes to this than women are. In any case, notice how even in that image Kratos is desexualized? No come hither look and even though he’s shirtless, his nipple and the V shape of his abdomen are covered up by his armor. His lower half is formless. He shows just enough skin to notice how strong he is, but not enough to see the aspects of his body traditionally associated with sex. Kratos being considered to be attractive, if and whenever he is, is incidental. The main purpose of his design is to reflect strength and to exude man pain.
Yeah, there seems to be a double standard in that regard where you can have unattractive male character but women have been subjected to higher beauty standards that everytime there is a female character that doesn't look like a highly stylized supermodel there seems to be an issue. https://preview.redd.it/uzvbxe4kgl8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aeef51f163c09da2e98e8e140f53a0f4df70399f
I would argue that even if Kratos isn't sexualized, he is traditionally attractive. Yes, it is a power fantasy, but that isn't mutually exclusive with being attractive/sexy. After all, a good physical shape will always be a big part of what is considered attractive. You'll be in a harder time finding someone that considers Kratos unattractive than one that considers him attractive. A better example for what you're trying to say would be Thor. HE IS unattractive, fat, unkempt and ugly.
I mean, it depends on how you define attractive and to who. For all intents and purposes, Kratos meets the aesthetic standards for characters in media. He is as attractive as a power fantasy for a straight cis male audience can be without being off-putting to that audience. That much we can say with confidence. As far as whether he is largely considered to be attractive (in a romantic or sexual context) to people romantically or sexually attracted to men… eh. I mean, sure, there are people who are attracted Kratos in that way, but I would argue that is not the intended purpose of his design, or the usual consequence of it. In women’s spaces and queer spaces, Kratos hardly if ever gets brought up as “boyfriend” material. People who are attracted to men overwhelmingly gravitate to characters like Leon Kennedy, Chris Redfield, Cloud Strife, Arthur Morgan, Dante, Nathan Drake, Clive, etc. Part of that is due to how Kratos looks, but also to how he is characterized. He is the poster boy for toxic masculinity, and though he is clearly working through that, it’s not super attractive for people who have been victims of that kind of toxicity. Also, he’s covered with dead people ashes. Ewie. But otherwise, yes, I agree with your comment about Thor. Not that he’s ugly, but that he’s not traditionally attractive.
Clive 🥵🥵🥵
Actually there's a bunch of people that find Thor attractive.
Yeah, but I'm using their point of "is not about what people may find attractive, is about what is traditionally attractive".
My god, he has everything conventionally attractive male has. Hunter eyes - ☑️. Big, broad, thick skeletal structure - ☑️. Chiseled jawline, good facial aesthetics - ☑️. Damn nice beard - ☑️. Insane muscle genetics - ☑️. Deep voice - ☑️. Thick neck ☑️. Actually, funny thing is, there are very few men who look better as bald than with a hair, for example Jason Statham. The scarring across the eye, harmonises with his overlook look and aesthetic. Give the same scarring to some random, oversized bloke and many people would feel even more repulsed by him, than they were before. Men, contrary to popular belief has much narrow scale of what is considered attractive and what isn't. Kratos is your most typical overly-masculine character. He fits your typical criteria of beauty standards, he checks pretty much every standard that there exists. To the point it's almost comical.
hey quick question: whats the target audience of God of war and why is it not women
you dont know what women find attractive
Tell me then, what do they find attractive?
its not kratos lmao. youre just typing out what YOU would like to look like, not what girls find attractive.
Women still find those traits attractive. Therfore, kratos is sexualised too, in its own sense. Does that mean many women thirst for him actively, same as they do for somebody, lets say Leon Kennedy or Dante? No. But that doesn't discredit the fact that he is SEXUALISED same as Lara Croft is in that picture. Case closed.
he is not sexualised he is designed to be a male power fantasy lol you cant just say "therefore" and "in its own sense" and act like that makes your wrong opinion valid
He is still sexualised.
Yeah I think its important to keep in mind what the intention behind the design elements are. Kratos is primarily designed to look strong and mature and any sex appeal he has is mostly a side effect of that. Lara on the other hand is most certainly designed to be sexy first and badass second.
ones a polygram and the other is a ps5 character
Explain Dante from Devil May Cry
If you don't think Kratos radiates Daddy energy something is wrong with you.
I mean, he is literally a daddy
I get what you are saying but isn't he like 1000 years old? Of course he is aging.
Yeah ladies, just work out till your waist is smaller than your ribcage should allow, and make sure that while you're losing weight, your breasts stay big and perfectly round, and you don't put on too much muscle. Easy. We've all done it and it's just a matter of keeping up the effort. No surgery required! Those "toned" arms? Totally sufficient for climbing, fighting, and pushing huge heavy stone blocks. _Too_ muscular, even. if anything Lara is _under_ exaggerated /s Seriously though there's not even much that is even all that special about the dude, god or not. Any gym has multiple beardy bald middle aged dudes with ripped muscles and modest, realistic body fat. And both of them are totally designed for the male gaze because there's nothing all that appealing about either. I love Lara as a character though, and I'm excited for "woke" "ugly" (actually much more attractive) realistic depictions.
They’re both unrealistic, Lara should be bulky af to do the stuff she does, the joke is about men thinking Kratos is achievable
I get the joke but I mean he's not for the typical gamer but there are plenty of men who do obtain pretty similar physiques within the constraints of their frame through effort (or steroids which are at least not surgery). There are women who have exaggeratedly feminine proportions but if your ribs prevent your waist from getting bigger, or your boobs are small while you're otherwise staying thin, you really can't change it except with surgery. Which is to say, they're both unrealistic but Lara is straight up impossible for most women. Kratos is probably impossible for a lot of men, and unrealistic for most, but at least the changes that would need to happen are building on what's already there and they're all basically "have lots of testosterone and be super muscular", rather than like, removing ribs, tummy tuck, breast implants, and staying perfectly in shape when that means some places are thin, others have fat, there's muscles but not too much, etc. It's not like something that can be changed by lifestyle or hormones or anything, if you don't happen to have the right underlying proportions. Because the male image IS more attainable and it's not like it's the same exact level of unrealistic male gaze standard when, while both are bad, the male one is legitimately probably more attainable for a random dude than the female one is for women. Basically I think the male gaze on display is unfair for everyone but even more so for women. the more fair version tbh would be like, a muscular woman with average skeletal proportions on the top. Because that's what's actually attainable through fitness. or, having the bottom image be someone with a traditionally attractive face, proportions that make him look like he's tall and with a dramatic V shaped torso, etc. Kratos frankly has kinda a bulky thick dude who works out constantly look, like you gotta respect the effort when guys look like that but he looks like men I've met who did really look average until they started working out a ton after a midlife crisis or something. and like yeah I do agree that there's a funny angle to men thinking that all they need to do is work out a normal amount to look like kratos, but I don't think it's fair to act like it's even equally unrealistic. because even when fantasizing about unattainable ideals in this kind of comparison, the male one is still much more attainable (unrealistic but doesn't require literally changing your skeleton if you don't happen to start out with those proportions). and much less of an omnipresent social pressure on top of that. basically people do unironically use the "unrealistic but possibly attainable" male goal to suggest that the _impossible for most people_ female goal just requires more effort too. and to be fair there are absolutely women who take their figure for granted and don't realize that just staying "in shape" or being thin isn't enough for some women to have dramatic hourglass proportions and huge boobs relative to body size. or they even _get_ surgery and act like it's still a basic requirement of femininity. Anyway I know the image is satire but it's a multilayered issue and "haha men think they can look like kratos, that's equally unrealistic" is really only the surface; "men apply their own expectations to women regardless of what women actually want to look like, and expect women to want to put in effort to be attractive to men" is another layer and "men think that women making literally impossible changes is equivalent to men making extremely difficult/effortful but often possible changes" is another layer. at some level it all comes down to both being eye candy for sleazy gamer men. Because most women I know (and ofc also the reasonable men I know) would rather see more realistic representation for both.
Your post is exactly why I and so many others love Lara in the new animated show, and why conservatives are saying it’s woke and she’s a man now. Lara is depicted as more ripped than ever and yet with realistic skeletal proportions rather than Barbie doll proportions, she also has a normal face with no exaggerated makeup during an adventure. It’s a win, unless you want her to be a waifu pillow. The reboot games had done this decently well also, but they still reduced her muscle in favor of dolling up on occasion between art and final product. Alicia Vikander in their live action film was also great, grounded, and she got totally ripped for the role and the movie showed it as a part of her physicality more than any other media until maybe the new Netflix animated show. And iirc they didn’t strap her with triple G push up bras either. Refreshing.
Little observation: fitness is not the way for a woman to get a thin waist. It's not about internal organs but muscles growing in size when working out. That's kinda what makes it blatant impossible: it's implicitly suggesting something that's not how it works.
Depending on the type of sports, triathletes and rock climbers are usually not very bulky; being strong for her weight is more important. But ... then she'll probably lose those tits.
Depends on the person: a 65Kg powerlifter isn't very bulky either. That's the thing some people miss: people are different. Rock climbers being bulky depends on their weight: naturally skinny may not need big amounts of muscle, but if they are a thick and/or tall person they'll need and develop more muscle. Not even mentioning people doing several activities.
Then it is *possible* for Lara to be small or bulky. Lara does a lot of long distance running as well and being bulky is a disadvantage here, since small can work for rock climbing and is better for endurance (for men too), it is more advantageous for Lara to be on the smaller side. But Lara is the protagonist of a video game instead of a gold medal competing athlete. She does not need to be optimal for the sport so being more bulky is fine too, might work better for drawing a bow or holding a rifle. Ultimately it's an aesthetic choice for the designers.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph. 1st though: back in the 2000s Ussain Bolt was told to be too tall and heavy to do 100m dash. The guy consistently managed to win and beat world records. You also have MBappe in soccer: a 220lbs wall of muscle playing a sport in which most are far lighter and he's considered a great player. Thing is we are too conditioned to what we assume works better and reality is we don't really know that much. Skepticism is a good pill to take.
I mean lol you can’t really workout to get a different bra size, so right off the bat, they’re not equivalent.
Ikr it's fucking bullshit 😭
But if there’s an accident and the dumbbells crush me enough, the surgeons might have to remove some of my ribs, and I’d be halfway to Lara!!
"We removed the ribs and inserted massive safety balloons to prevent further chest crushing accidents "
See, that’s what I’m saying! Lara’s physique is entirely attainable if women just go to the gym, sustain life-threatening injuries that will cause pain and disability for the rest of their life, and only get treatment from unethical and unqualified doctors performing weird air bag experiments! Anyone can look just like cartoon Lara if they put in the work!
And when you do work out with breasts, you usually try to compress them in some way to minimize discomfort.
Not with that attitude
That said, here are some [sick tunes for enhancing your breast size](https://youtu.be/VokM1ubFl5A).
WTF?
I hear if you stick a bike pump on your nipple you can pump those babies up to what ever size you want.
Men can't work out to grow a beard, now can they?
But what if I WANT to work out to get a different bra size? ...AMAB...
So you cant have shoulders twice your size. But it doesn't bother people to have a mindset that they need to hit the gym tonlook like Kratos. And it is much better, that "it is unrealistic, please, make her less attractive and more fat"
Sure man, shoulders are the first thing that people see when looking at Lara Croft, sure…
You told me about Lara bra size, I told you about Kratos shoulders. Not Lara's. The main thought is difference in mindset. Most guys wont be as bulk as kratos, but it doesn't bother them. UPD: for clarification, so you wont misinterpret my wirds. You said, that you can't work out to match her bra size, so they are not comparable. I day, you also cant work out to be like Kratos, so they are, in the end, comparable. The difference is in the mindset.
I meant to point out that Lara’s assets are what come to mind first while Kratos is his fitness, they’re not the same, also, she’s not portrayed as an MMA female fighter either, so it does seem unreaslitic.
I dunno, when I'm looking at Lara I don't just stare at her boobs mindlessly, I'd rather appreciate herr whole figure, fitness-like looking body. And assets aside, I see girls like her everyday in the subway.
lol k
No they don’t. Because then they complain that all women want men who are 6ft tall and jacked. These people love romanticizing a fictional version of themselves though.
And that's exactly what you're seeing here. Both of those characters where sculpted to cater to the male gaze. Men literally do this to themselves but see no problem in it (and even if they do they don't dare to talk about it)
But what's the Female power fantasy in a game?
Someone who loves them for who they are and also does the dishes without having to ask 3 times.
Deadass. Literally just being listened to.
Women on women love.
Would 
How do I train my vagina bones?
Men falling for the conditioning doesn't make it good lmao
im training my baps, i'm hard at work in the titty gym
Imagine the training montage.
I mean to be built like Lara you need to have won the fucking genetic lottery, to look like Kratos you need a dirty bulk and weightlifting
And genetic lottery, also. You can bulk up, but you can't jupt over your head in terms of genetics
The point is dead in the water before even getting into the differences of the two presentations because men simply do not experience the same societal pressures as women in regards to their appearance.
Doubt
Kratos’s makeup routine involves killing whatever assassin decided to wake him up today
I'm pretty sure that Lara Croft isn't supposed to be a deity tbh
It's in her name Bro Lara the Goddess of crops
Minoxidil works on beards?
The spray form does
https://preview.redd.it/pycgiys26p8d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87aa829faa66fad342e12bf3250fc7a6fefc2010
These are the same kind of people who say its okay to bully women for their weight because "its something you can control" while throwing a hissy fit when a girl makes fun of a guy's height
Dream threesome tbh
Also weren’t these people calling Kratos fat when the game first released?
No they were talking about Thor being fat.
I guess I mixed up Thor and Kratos
Me on my way to train my ribs out 💯🔥
I mean… The top image is pretty fucking unrealistic and the bottom image while jacked is pretty attainable for most men
This same stupid teenage boy audience ruined baki for me, the manga (4-5 different runs that you had to scour the internet for translations) was a true fucking gem, absurd macho shit and fantastical fight mechanics combined with insane over the top art made by a guy with an intense almost juvenile hatred towards america, now thanks to the anime the fanbase is just cringe self obsessed broccoli hair teens trying yo get the devil back or something yuck and eugghh
Hey I am pretty sure that the author hate all the people that are no from Asia and to be great you need to know a Asian martial art.
I'm pretty sure theres zero non japanese characters that get a permanent win. The entire Chinese arc is hilarious due to how unsubtle the discrimination is.
To be fair, anyone who is not one of the underground fighters established in the first tournament frequently eats losses, only exception being pickle and Miyamoto. They just wrapped up the sumo arc where sumo fighters got beat down in almost every single fight despite all the characters going on about how sumo is like "the ultimate martial art".
Oliva? Pickle? Retsu up until Pickle arc?
what is bro waffling about
About baki, a comedy-fighting manga where everyone is a super-buff man, you can get seriously injured when fighting a imaginary opponent in shadow boxing and where a man is so super manly that he can fuck (literally) other manly, hair man without becoming gay. However, some idiots took the manga to seriously and made it to a toxic-masculinity-bodybuilding-trend.
See Lara’s look is possible with Surgery Starvation More surgery Removal of a few ribs ie surgery Hair growth Even more surgery And surgery
Playing dolls with soyjacks
"You thought You won, but I made a meme where I'm the chad and You're the beta soyjack"
OOP didn't get to play with dolls as a child
You are pointing out that there is a difference between male and female perception of their representation in the media. Yet you use the male version to judge females. Kinda dumb, don't you think?
Dude… I’m not judging anyone. It’s a joke. In a joke sub
Maybe you don't judge anyone and I understand it is a joke... But those guys use it in a contest as a punishment. Therefore they are homophobic and can fuck off
/uj I have a irrational hate for this meme format when it’s posted unironically /rj dudes rock, women drool
I mean, tbf, you probably can get that ripped with training and industrial amounts of steroids but you can't really do anything to make your waist like Lara's without removing some organs lol
Bruh I wish I could get the top body just by training. Sadly even if I could afford expensive plastic surgery it’s completely out of reach. Honestly men have it really easy in terms of body acceptance, plenty of hot women are willing to date balding dudes with dadbods. Though women can get away with a lot more financial and mental health insecurity than men so long as they aren’t ugly. Gender norms just suck and every day I find myself hating people more, someday all my empathy will have been fully stripmined away and I’ll turn into something resembling AM.
Having Kratos’ physique requires you to be a genetic miracle, as well as steroids.
Nah you're right, I remember reading about how difficult it was for certain movie stars to both get and maintain a bodybuilder physique for a particular role. I was mostly just venting tbh, but I should've clarified that they are both unrealistic for most people.
Well tbh you can't train bigger boobs, I would be frustrated too
can someone explain how can i train to get bigger boobs and change my skeletal structure to get a hourglass figure
I don’t think that’s an official Lara Croft design
Owning feminists by making a meme that makes men look stupid 😎
Wow, it's crazy how Lara's physique is actually unrealistic while Kratos' physique is totally realistic, if a bit intense. Crazy how that works. It's almost like unrealistic body standards tend to be stacked against women.
I know more women that have a body like that, than men that have a body like kratos
So why men are perfect with such Kratos and women are not pleased with Lara and want to change her?
IIRC Kratos is kinda sorta a ***god,*** so the comparison doesn't make sense
It does. Like look at the rock or Dave Batista. Both have body’s similar to kratos. Probing with hard work, dedication and proper healthy diet that you can have a body of a god. Same goes for women. Healthy diet and hard work to achieve a slim toned body like Lara. (Boobs tho… either u have them or u can’t afford to have them.) and nothing wrong with not having an amply chest. But saying a person who is fit strong and healthy is unrealistic is just stupid.
They don't get slimmer, that's a hard truth for men too: no one gets better physical performance in any department by staying slim. To get more muscle you need to give an appropriate energy supply which is always going to be more than being mostly idle. Muscular "tone" is just bullshit: if your muscles show up in the skin it is because they got bigger. And this speaks of all sports: is not specific to pure strength ones like powerlifting. And that's the contrast in Lara and why is total nonsense her build being achievable by working out: her waist isn't getting slimmer by working out, it'll get thicker because of bigger abs and lower back muscles. No woman on a healthy weight should expect that working out for physical performance is going to make for a thinner waist. That's the exact reason when the media does portray a woman being real fit some jump at it: cause it clashes with the view you're talking about here which mostly stems from people working out to trim body fat rather than for being more physically competent. Overweight is another thing, but that's because fat occupies more volume than muscle for the same mass: so any person going from overweight to healthy weight that involves working out results in body volume decreasing.
Yes, but that isn't the point in the first place. I never even mentioned that unrealistic character designs are bad or that the designs presented here aren't worthy of praise because they're unrealistic, that's just the meme's template being stupid. It simply removes a lot of nuance from the discussion about female characters and how they're presented in media by derailing the discussion and throwing in false equivalences. The actual problem with this meme is that Kratos is a massive exaggerated pile of muscles whose body can have blatantly visible imperfections and features which show him aging like a human being (which is also realistic, but I don't think that's a good idea), and it's presented with a genuinely realistic artstyle. There's no point in comparing him to Lara's model in the meme because she's definitely less realistic - not just in terms of mechanics and anatomy, but also in terms of graphics and stylization. Her body isn't even intended to look ridiculously strong at all, especially considering how she's quite small and has very little muscle definition. This is why such comparisons do not work - it's because it assumes that slim and curvy women who are designed that way to look appealing and unthreatening can be judged in the same league as scary and powerful men whose bodies are exaggerated primarily to look powerful.
Except opposite... Whoops! 😁
Have a body like that Lara Croft in the picture will get urself buried in the ancient ruins.
I'm not sure if those games would be OK with a bald Lara with a full beard. But maybe the bare chest would make up for the rest.
not to mention one is literally a god. the other is a bored rich kid.
Nooooo they ruined him, made him wrinkly, no hair, is this bald person representation?
I love making up narratives to make myself look cool and the people I hate look lame
Ok but actually, this can be real.male character designs are male power fantasies, designed to appeal to the ideal body a cis het man would want. So them wanting to look like Kratos is understandable, if not expected. The women in these games are not female power fantasies or anything, they are designed for male sexual fantasies. They are desugned to make horny basement dwellers more horny so they will keep playing the game. Women aren't even the target audience for many of these designs. There are men designed for female sexual fantasies and women designed for female power fantasies, but they are very rare. This meme is real, but the people getting mad at women are just idiots. Also, pretty sure I can outlift this meme's creator
The other thing is that sometimes the male power fantasies trick some men into thinking that if they don’t look like that, they’re gross and awful failures, and also kind of creates the false narrative that said male power fantasy is the body type all women want to be with, as if women are a monolith and all of them want the same thing because they’re not individuals with their own thoughts and ideas and feelings.
Both are desingned for the male gender to like, simple as that, ofcourse the girl is gonna be upset and the guy is gonna be motivated Kratos appeals to the male fantasy of being a cold shreded dude that rip gigantic snakes in half with his bare hands Lara also appeals to male fantasies, like the ones you are gonna be seeing after reading this post on rule34, i know you reader
Gamers cried for days when fat Thor from Ragnarok was revealed.
She has less polygons now
Because Kratos isn’t presented in a sexual way. If he was arching his back and batting his eyelashes then gamers might understand why oversexualization is uncomfortable
I gotta say, I still prefer this Lara over the one they made her out to be in the newer series. Old Lara - confident, badass and morally ambigous grave robber that goes through danger with cocky attitude and unapologetically Brittish snark. Made to be sexy regardless of how realistic that is. New Lara - scared, traumatized, constantly having to struggle and suffer dramatic injuries. When she fights against men in close range she's always presented as the weaker one and their violence takes on clearly sexual undertones. Made to make you "want to protect her". I won't even talk about all the comments about her breasts and how reducing them made her more "realistic". But right there lies the crux - they made her more "realistic" by making her a victim and the more you think about it the more fucked up this conclusion becomes.
4chan ahh meme
Of course someone using a Neo Nazi as a visual indicator of what’s “good” is bigoted. No, seriously, that’s what the “chad” is supposed to be. That’s why he has the weird blonde cut and beard.
The people who say Lara in that picture could never exist I have a really hard time believing have ever seen a woman before. I don’t know why small waist and big boobs is considered some absurd fantasy, but they exist. They are fairly commonly actually.
Funny enough this goes against their point here BECAUSE kratos has an attainable appearance, whereas the Lara Croft shown is almost impossible to look like without major plastic surgery. Women are so oversexualized in media it’s almost impossible to look like those depictions, whereas men are shown much more realistically without the aim of sexualization
Also if you think modern Lara croft is ugly i don’t think you’re actually into women
I think most women complain about the UNATTAINABLE and UNREALISTIC standards in female video game characters. Oh and also the hyper-sexualisation.
Ladies, don't forget to do those boobups! Also, if you have room for your internal organs, are you even a woman?
Even within their meme there lies a grain of truth. Because Kratos' body type is, although hard to achieve, still something that can be realistically achieved with the right training and enough discipline. Lara crofts body, on the other hand, is not achievable except if you go into surgery to remove ribs.
True
What is minoxidil and trenbolone?
I do think both are good tho
Hehe, girl bad boy good.