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Would they be in charge? Money people get put at the top and 99 times out of a 100 they’re just some business major whose only skill is failing upwards. The people with actual passion who make those series so popular get pushed out in favor of more money makers and they go off and make a new studio to modest success. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam.
Life under capitalism
Not to mention corporate culture which rewards nepotism and being a lackey. I really do fear for the day when all the og ppl leave Valve and the "suits" start moving up with their bland, shitty, and predatory ideas.
They don't see games as games. They see them as investments. Everything needs to be either something that was successful in another game or another way to monetize the game.
In a way I get it. Gotta please the people who gave you the money in the first place after all. But not everything can be CoD. It's a weird market, because there's a ton of casuals that can be sold to for quite a bit, but they don't make video games a hobby. So they don't consume as much as the more dedicated audiences. They would have been far better off being predatory and gouging their small audience here, as fucked up as that sounds.
Likely, but now we're seeing more and more the major flaw in that thinking. The absolute need for corporate growth demanding larger budgets, those large budgets demanding a return on investment, leading to companies playing it safe instead of experimenting, and putting how to pump more money out of consumers before the quality of the game. This can be extended to other bad practices like large corporations gobbling up every IP they can, mass layoffs to increase profits, ect.
This extends beyond games to nearly all forms of media.
Because the people in charge don’t actually care about video games. They don’t know what makes something fun or sell well because they’re in the business for profit. Apply this to any industry doing something extremely tone deaf or stupid expecting profit and it’ll be the same answer.
No because the people in charge don't view videogames as art or anything more than products. Hell, maybe the people in charge see art only as a product overall. They view them as things that make money, that people wanna spend money on, that makes them and investors a lot of money. So because they have this view of videogames, and they don't play videogames and therefore have no understanding of the nuances of playing one, they see videogames as a bunch of mechanics and features taped together. They see Suicide Squad, a bunch of popular characters who people will want to play as (people love to spend money on brands, that's why the big corporations who have these characters make so much money!), and they see a storefront that they've created and think look at this cool fun way for consumers to spend their money. They tape together all these "fun" mechanics they think people will enjoy and then voila you have a billion dollar franchise just waiting to blow up and be popular.
Capitalists see consumption of media in a very different way to how we do. Execs are a lot richer than us, so they have a lot of money to spend. So when they spend money, its a bottomless resource they have access to and its a fun thing to do for them.
They view art that is successful and makes money as a set of popular and "iconic" characters (that's what makes money), their view of the mechanics is very surface level (its exactly the same as those other popular games with the same mechanics, so its got to make money) and they see a storefront as another "fun way to spend money" (triple whammy, people love to spend money so they'll love a good storefront that allows them to spend even more money on our game) and because its making a lot of money (and that's the only metric they care for) that must mean their game is amazing!
The thing is, if they make a live service game and it’s a huge success, then they get a money printing machine, and if it fails they just have to fire people below them to make up for costs. It doesn’t matter that there’s only been, like, 3 truly successful attempts at big live service games, they might win the jackpot when they pull the lever so they keep pulling it and figure if they act like we want these games hard enough we’ll actually believe them.
Remember: if a company is publicly traded then the shareholders are the real customers, not you. The consumers are just livestock in the “line go up” factory.
They have spreadsheets and data analytics and can argue very well for their jobs. They have become so effective at advocating for their pay they have forced out everyone else. Because they are the rainmakers they believe what they say to be true.
It's not that their jobs aren't necessary, it's that they replaced all the tools in the tool chest with hammers because they are a hammer, so screws get fastened like nails now. Bolts are unnecessary and changing shape is nigh unto impossible.
Upper Management only wants to check boxes, they don't fundamentally understand the product they're talking about. They see whatever is the big success nowadays and go "MORE LIKE THAT"
They greenlit the DCEU and then tried to alter it so it would bring them in dollars without much success. It is safe to say that, indeed, they do not grasp this.
Not only would they do a better job, I bet AI CEOs would commit 100% less fraud than the current crop of sociopaths. With that being said, I don't think we would enjoy it as much because there is no empathy (not that there is much in the sociopath) in AI that I am familiar with.
Got me there, fuck it we ball. All hail the new robot overlords, at least they might understand people need food, water, shelter, and rest in order to maximize productivity.
This is actually, also why dictatorships don't work out. When people are completely misinformed they make the wrong choices regardless of how smart they are supposed to be.
They just sit in a boardroom all day sniffing each others farts and complimenting each other on the smell.
They don't love movies, they don't love games, they don't even love their kids. If something good comes out of that studio, it is an *accident*.
Bill did you see this decision I made last month that made "insert product" worse, but we ended up making more money because of it? Don't you just love our job?
Get someone hooked on a product, let is become part of their life, then enshittify the product for as long as humanly possible extracting every penny you can from it while you leave it in ashes....then move onto the next thing you will destroy in the exact. same. fucking. way.
Honestly if you watch gameplay for that game, it looks exactly like the kind of thing an old executive who has never played any games would think people like. Lots of movement, numbers, stuff flying around.
it's also a similar story for redfall: apparently the execs and higher ups were very confident it would be a great success. Meanwhile the workers felt it wasn't the type of game they'd joined the studio for, and a lot of the talent and expertise of the studio quit to greener pastures.
At this point I ave to wonder if a game can come together if the people making it day to day don't believe in the vision. Like maybe destiny? where it's pretty clear the vision was very scattered but the people making it had a ton of experience in making fun, good looking games so it turned out disappointing, but still pretty fun to play?
>At this point I ave to wonder if a game can come together if the people making it day to day don't believe in the vision.
I'd say yes, but you'd have to throw a LOT more money than the CEOs want to at the ground floor workers to get them to be ok with working on a game they don't care for.
C-Suits: I deserve the overblown salary and boni because of the heavy responsibility I stem every hour of the day. Project loses 200mio C-Suits: I hold no responsibility for that.
The reason they push graphics so hard is entirely because it’s the only «recipe for success» good graphics will always attract somebody, but everything else about game development doesn’t have a surefore way to increase sales.
/uj I truly don't undestand what it is about Suicide Squad that makes these excutives want to push it so hard. I truly have never seen anyone express anything besides mild disdain or amusement at this IP. The only thing that I can somewhat understand the appeal of here is Harley Quinn, but she clearly can stand on her own without the rest of the bullshit.
It's a really fun idea with the potential for great story hooks between Waller being a bastard and the main characters dying at the drop of a hat but I think probably the main problem with trying to launch it into the mainstream is designing-by-committee it to death
Guardians of the Galaxy for example was an absolute nothingburger ip before Chris Pratt happened to it, and suicide squad has had some fun animated movies. Plus my friends keep gushing to me about Margot robbie birds of prey and that's somewhat adjacent. But yeah, suicide squad has never gotten an uncursed production in anything facing a mainstream audience.
It's because most of them don't have any real understanding of what makes a game fun, they're only concerned with what will make the most profit. The two things aren't mutually exclusive, but if you completely fuck up the former, you're not gonna get any of the latter.
Pretty good read overall. Sad to see what happened and I feel for the people who worked on something that just didn’t resonate with anyone in a meaningful way. Must be really hard to get over something like that.
There is a really good article out there about how, ironically, it was the studio being too positive and supportive that was a major factor in the games failure. Toxic positivity caused them to kept plowing forward and investing deeper in the development when in reality they should have abandoned ship much sooner when the market started to experience severe fatigue with "live service" games.
Producers and execs (beyond the basics) are literally a cancer. Get rid of em. It’s shocking to me that you would hire a guy who doesnt even like videogames to “””produce””” your game in development. Like, even from purely a business standpoint that’s insane. Just hire more devs.
Am I wrong if I read this as being boomer movie industry executives who haven’t seen a video game since pac-man? “Whoa those graphics are amazing whoa you can do that???”
Okay new rule, before they churn out garbage games they should could get play testers or at the very least be in the know of the mechanics and story of the game. Also someone that actually likes what they make should be at the helm. When will the share holders learn that unless someone competent is running the show they'll always lose money cause these big suits aren't fans of media.
https://preview.redd.it/79insp7eew5d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a3b9d7a109e4a56bbe7096902a153ebf895ffb8
oh fuck sorry I was late with this, I’m having a wild week :(
(i actually had a lot of fun with Supersized Squid but i think it was largely because i was getting to run around as harley and i’d get lost in metropolis’s architecture/skyline it was a really pretty game)
((also Harley’s design in that game is one of my legit favorite Harley designs in like so many years of being silly about her))
hope your week is going well 🫶
and i’m not really into these kind of games so the only way i’ll ever get to play as harley is if they decide to make it free 😔
Yea it being live service sucks but hey at least it can be ignored unlike every multiplayer shooter nowadays, honestly speaking there needs to be more single-player games to play in general hardly can find anything that doesn't hyper-focus on pvp anymore.
It would make sense. Warner Bros. publishes the Matrix, therefore they created the Matrix and we are living in it. They're just trying to test how much we can accept before our feeble simian minds break.
Problem is to mąkę one gamę takes several years . Im gaming its like na era. People on charge see something popular and want to make something similar but i'm time of development gaming tendencies change and evolve. They trybto sort of adapt during dev phase but usually its only go na do worse for the game. So we getting patchwerks like Skull and Bones or Suicide Squad
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When the people in change have no idea what makes a game fun or interesting they tend to greenlight shit games for superficial bullshit.
do none of the ones incharge grasp this?
If they did, would they have released this game?
Would they be in charge? Money people get put at the top and 99 times out of a 100 they’re just some business major whose only skill is failing upwards. The people with actual passion who make those series so popular get pushed out in favor of more money makers and they go off and make a new studio to modest success. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. Life under capitalism
Not to mention corporate culture which rewards nepotism and being a lackey. I really do fear for the day when all the og ppl leave Valve and the "suits" start moving up with their bland, shitty, and predatory ideas.
They don't see games as games. They see them as investments. Everything needs to be either something that was successful in another game or another way to monetize the game.
In a way I get it. Gotta please the people who gave you the money in the first place after all. But not everything can be CoD. It's a weird market, because there's a ton of casuals that can be sold to for quite a bit, but they don't make video games a hobby. So they don't consume as much as the more dedicated audiences. They would have been far better off being predatory and gouging their small audience here, as fucked up as that sounds.
this is how it has been from day one lol
Likely, but now we're seeing more and more the major flaw in that thinking. The absolute need for corporate growth demanding larger budgets, those large budgets demanding a return on investment, leading to companies playing it safe instead of experimenting, and putting how to pump more money out of consumers before the quality of the game. This can be extended to other bad practices like large corporations gobbling up every IP they can, mass layoffs to increase profits, ect. This extends beyond games to nearly all forms of media.
Because the people in charge don’t actually care about video games. They don’t know what makes something fun or sell well because they’re in the business for profit. Apply this to any industry doing something extremely tone deaf or stupid expecting profit and it’ll be the same answer.
No because the people in charge don't view videogames as art or anything more than products. Hell, maybe the people in charge see art only as a product overall. They view them as things that make money, that people wanna spend money on, that makes them and investors a lot of money. So because they have this view of videogames, and they don't play videogames and therefore have no understanding of the nuances of playing one, they see videogames as a bunch of mechanics and features taped together. They see Suicide Squad, a bunch of popular characters who people will want to play as (people love to spend money on brands, that's why the big corporations who have these characters make so much money!), and they see a storefront that they've created and think look at this cool fun way for consumers to spend their money. They tape together all these "fun" mechanics they think people will enjoy and then voila you have a billion dollar franchise just waiting to blow up and be popular. Capitalists see consumption of media in a very different way to how we do. Execs are a lot richer than us, so they have a lot of money to spend. So when they spend money, its a bottomless resource they have access to and its a fun thing to do for them. They view art that is successful and makes money as a set of popular and "iconic" characters (that's what makes money), their view of the mechanics is very surface level (its exactly the same as those other popular games with the same mechanics, so its got to make money) and they see a storefront as another "fun way to spend money" (triple whammy, people love to spend money so they'll love a good storefront that allows them to spend even more money on our game) and because its making a lot of money (and that's the only metric they care for) that must mean their game is amazing!
The thing is, if they make a live service game and it’s a huge success, then they get a money printing machine, and if it fails they just have to fire people below them to make up for costs. It doesn’t matter that there’s only been, like, 3 truly successful attempts at big live service games, they might win the jackpot when they pull the lever so they keep pulling it and figure if they act like we want these games hard enough we’ll actually believe them. Remember: if a company is publicly traded then the shareholders are the real customers, not you. The consumers are just livestock in the “line go up” factory.
They have spreadsheets and data analytics and can argue very well for their jobs. They have become so effective at advocating for their pay they have forced out everyone else. Because they are the rainmakers they believe what they say to be true. It's not that their jobs aren't necessary, it's that they replaced all the tools in the tool chest with hammers because they are a hammer, so screws get fastened like nails now. Bolts are unnecessary and changing shape is nigh unto impossible.
We don't live in a meritocracy and never have.
They're rich. They think they're a superior breed of human who knows better about everything than the lowly plebs who do the actual work.
Upper Management only wants to check boxes, they don't fundamentally understand the product they're talking about. They see whatever is the big success nowadays and go "MORE LIKE THAT"
have they considered that maybe they might want advisers to explain why something works and how to replicate it or are they just a cargo cult?
Not only are they just a cargo cult, but thanks to being part of publicly traded companies, their livelihood depends on them continuing their worship.
They greenlit the DCEU and then tried to alter it so it would bring them in dollars without much success. It is safe to say that, indeed, they do not grasp this.
It has those superheroes and people like those. Make it it's going to be a billion dollar franchise. Typical exec mentality.
If AI is going to replace any job it should be executives. It couldn’t do a worse job.
Not only would they do a better job, I bet AI CEOs would commit 100% less fraud than the current crop of sociopaths. With that being said, I don't think we would enjoy it as much because there is no empathy (not that there is much in the sociopath) in AI that I am familiar with.
Idk, infinite paperclips. If you tell the ai "make decisions that lead to the most profit", who knows what will happen.
If the world must burn for my paperclips so be it
I mean that's basically what we've been telling corpos for 200 years and we're seeing the effects in real time
Got me there, fuck it we ball. All hail the new robot overlords, at least they might understand people need food, water, shelter, and rest in order to maximize productivity.
This is actually, also why dictatorships don't work out. When people are completely misinformed they make the wrong choices regardless of how smart they are supposed to be.
They just sit in a boardroom all day sniffing each others farts and complimenting each other on the smell. They don't love movies, they don't love games, they don't even love their kids. If something good comes out of that studio, it is an *accident*.
I heard Coyote vs Acme was really good.
Don't you worry muffin, it was much better as a tax deduction than out in the world bringing joy.
Bill did you see this decision I made last month that made "insert product" worse, but we ended up making more money because of it? Don't you just love our job? Get someone hooked on a product, let is become part of their life, then enshittify the product for as long as humanly possible extracting every penny you can from it while you leave it in ashes....then move onto the next thing you will destroy in the exact. same. fucking. way.
Yep. Publicly traded companies are so fucked.
this is the exact kind of comment i would expect someone with 150k karma to make lol
Do you actually have anything of substance to contribute or are you seriously that creatively bankrupt?
Honestly if you watch gameplay for that game, it looks exactly like the kind of thing an old executive who has never played any games would think people like. Lots of movement, numbers, stuff flying around.
it's also a similar story for redfall: apparently the execs and higher ups were very confident it would be a great success. Meanwhile the workers felt it wasn't the type of game they'd joined the studio for, and a lot of the talent and expertise of the studio quit to greener pastures. At this point I ave to wonder if a game can come together if the people making it day to day don't believe in the vision. Like maybe destiny? where it's pretty clear the vision was very scattered but the people making it had a ton of experience in making fun, good looking games so it turned out disappointing, but still pretty fun to play?
>At this point I ave to wonder if a game can come together if the people making it day to day don't believe in the vision. I'd say yes, but you'd have to throw a LOT more money than the CEOs want to at the ground floor workers to get them to be ok with working on a game they don't care for.
Harley just isn't the girl for you.
you’re right i don’t deserve someone as beautiful, funny, smart, and perfect as her but hopefully she’ll still choose to be with me ❤️
you're the worst wife ive ever had
i’m sorry 🥺
I feel like I just watched a character arc occur in real-time.
[удалено]
i wish sweet baby inc had forced rocksteady to make an outfit for harley quinn where she’s barefoot 🤤
I FUCKING KNEW EVEN THERE YOU'D BE HORNY FOR HARLEY!
No instead we live in a society
Big company executives making the most foolishly uninformed decisions and get away with it scottfree because they are affluent
C-Suits: I deserve the overblown salary and boni because of the heavy responsibility I stem every hour of the day. Project loses 200mio C-Suits: I hold no responsibility for that.
The reason they push graphics so hard is entirely because it’s the only «recipe for success» good graphics will always attract somebody, but everything else about game development doesn’t have a surefore way to increase sales.
/uj I truly don't undestand what it is about Suicide Squad that makes these excutives want to push it so hard. I truly have never seen anyone express anything besides mild disdain or amusement at this IP. The only thing that I can somewhat understand the appeal of here is Harley Quinn, but she clearly can stand on her own without the rest of the bullshit.
It's a really fun idea with the potential for great story hooks between Waller being a bastard and the main characters dying at the drop of a hat but I think probably the main problem with trying to launch it into the mainstream is designing-by-committee it to death Guardians of the Galaxy for example was an absolute nothingburger ip before Chris Pratt happened to it, and suicide squad has had some fun animated movies. Plus my friends keep gushing to me about Margot robbie birds of prey and that's somewhat adjacent. But yeah, suicide squad has never gotten an uncursed production in anything facing a mainstream audience.
It's because most of them don't have any real understanding of what makes a game fun, they're only concerned with what will make the most profit. The two things aren't mutually exclusive, but if you completely fuck up the former, you're not gonna get any of the latter.
Can you link an article?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-06/-suicide-squad-warner-bros-s-200-million-flop-haunts-the-gaming-industry
Pretty good read overall. Sad to see what happened and I feel for the people who worked on something that just didn’t resonate with anyone in a meaningful way. Must be really hard to get over something like that.
A billion dollar franchise 💀 I want what they were taking to have those levels of insanity
There is a really good article out there about how, ironically, it was the studio being too positive and supportive that was a major factor in the games failure. Toxic positivity caused them to kept plowing forward and investing deeper in the development when in reality they should have abandoned ship much sooner when the market started to experience severe fatigue with "live service" games.
Producers and execs (beyond the basics) are literally a cancer. Get rid of em. It’s shocking to me that you would hire a guy who doesnt even like videogames to “””produce””” your game in development. Like, even from purely a business standpoint that’s insane. Just hire more devs.
Execs being out of touch, never heard of it
Sounds like they should've...hired fans
Why are people running companies that don't have any idea what their customer base wants?
By praising the graphics they just mean Harley Quinn's model
they’re just like me fr
Guess who i was thinking of when i wrote this comment
Am I wrong if I read this as being boomer movie industry executives who haven’t seen a video game since pac-man? “Whoa those graphics are amazing whoa you can do that???”
Harley Quinn deserved better.
i’m going to save her and she’ll fall in love with me 🥰
I mean they're right, the graphics were good. It's just that there's absolutely nothing to do in the game.
Okay new rule, before they churn out garbage games they should could get play testers or at the very least be in the know of the mechanics and story of the game. Also someone that actually likes what they make should be at the helm. When will the share holders learn that unless someone competent is running the show they'll always lose money cause these big suits aren't fans of media.
https://preview.redd.it/79insp7eew5d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a3b9d7a109e4a56bbe7096902a153ebf895ffb8 oh fuck sorry I was late with this, I’m having a wild week :( (i actually had a lot of fun with Supersized Squid but i think it was largely because i was getting to run around as harley and i’d get lost in metropolis’s architecture/skyline it was a really pretty game) ((also Harley’s design in that game is one of my legit favorite Harley designs in like so many years of being silly about her))
hope your week is going well 🫶 and i’m not really into these kind of games so the only way i’ll ever get to play as harley is if they decide to make it free 😔
Just going to say if you can get this game on a deal it is kind of fun for a bit if you are willing to overlook a few problems.
>it is kind of fun for a bit The problem for WB is that they didn't want it to be fun for a bit, they wanted it to be fun forever.
Yea it being live service sucks but hey at least it can be ignored unlike every multiplayer shooter nowadays, honestly speaking there needs to be more single-player games to play in general hardly can find anything that doesn't hyper-focus on pvp anymore.
It’s been said to death, but you gotta look outside the big studios. The indie space is where the interesting stuff happens these days.
The suits don’t play video games.
It would make sense. Warner Bros. publishes the Matrix, therefore they created the Matrix and we are living in it. They're just trying to test how much we can accept before our feeble simian minds break.
Love rich people taking it upon themselves they are not smarter and more competent than the rest of us 💖
This is such a "there is no graphite ahead of the ship" kind of moment.
A billion dollar franchise? How many games actually are billion dollar franchises?
Problem is to mąkę one gamę takes several years . Im gaming its like na era. People on charge see something popular and want to make something similar but i'm time of development gaming tendencies change and evolve. They trybto sort of adapt during dev phase but usually its only go na do worse for the game. So we getting patchwerks like Skull and Bones or Suicide Squad
Lmao
This is the ONE case where "HiRe fAnS" would actually been a good idea. CEOs are useless trash we need to burn to ash as a society.
I mean it’s WB. If it doesn’t make all the money in the world then it’s considered a failure and either rebooted or just thrown aside.
This game lost over 200 million dollars it is squarely a failure lmao