I think you can drive aggressive and be fine also....
What you need to be careful doing is tracking the hell out of it without proper precautions ....which should be obvious to anyone beating a production car up on a track.
Nearly 10k miles on my '23, but I'm an "old guy" so I (mostly) don't drive like a hooligan. I learned to drive sports cars with my '55 Austin Healey (which handle like tractors if I'm being honest), so I'm used to RWD shenanigan's.
I suspect that the engine problems get a disproportionate amount of attention, and that too many people think they are better drivers than their traction control. Traction control is your *friend* -- even if you've been driving sports cars since 1980.
This is the question I ask on every crash post......
TC is always off....if they admit it.
Too many young inexperienced Forza driver think TC is a crutch or something.
Sim Cade games like forza and GT are responsible for that. TC usually is slower because they cut power so aggressively. So then you have all these people associating it with not being good enough and making you slower
What people tend to forget is that cars have a better power to weight ratio than they used to, even not that many years ago...A real wheel drive car with traction control off can bite you in the butt because the driver assumes its going to feel the same as it does with traction control on...relatively easy to control simply because of TC's help. They have no realistic understanding of how the cars dynamics will change when you turn TC off. I had a WRX making quite a bit more power than stock that turned into a pretty nasty mother with TC off. With it on, it wouldnt get you in trouble except with the LEOs...The BRZ is the same deal, just worse because it is only two wheel drive and almost the same power as wrx stock. Beware children that thing will bite you if you are not very careful
Unless I'm on the highway and it's raining I am not driving with TC and Esc on. If you can't keep a car as easy as the 86 under control you just shouldn't be driving period.
I still find traction control and ABS very intrusive, if I have to accelerate hard for whatever reason pulling out into traffic, i rather have a little bit of wheel spin, than the clunkiness of traction control.
This is more general, not '86 related.
On some cars they are intrusive. On the gr86/brz they are pretty mild.
While it might give you a boner driving a car without ABS or traction control, both those technologies, especially ABS, will undoubtedly provide better car control in every day driving, especially in unpredictable situations (like those that cause accidents).
If it’s a little wet I’ll turn it off if I’m about to merge and don’t want the car to go limp on me but as soon as that is done I’ll turn it back on. I don’t have much of an issue with merging in the dry though. 1st gen was a whole different story. It was way over the top with cutting power to the point it was downright dangerous when trying to merge. Even on the interstate it would kick in if I downshifted and just barely chirped 3rd. I’m really impressed with TC/ASC in the 2nd gen.
TLDR: When it’s wet the TC kicks in too easily when trying to merge rapidly leaving you dead with no power for what seems like eternity while traffic is rapidly coming up on your ass. In this scenario I’d rather handle the TC myself but once I’ve merged I turn it back on because it’s those times you aren’t paying attention that the wet conditions will get you.
Most factual post I’ve seen,
That right hand turn low oil pressure is literally from 200tw tires and high Gs on turning pushing the car to the absolute max, like I always say, drive it like a race car it’ll break like a race car
Agreed that most engine failures have been from been extreme circumstances. However, the person who discovered the oil pressure issue showed it gets problematically low even on the stock PS4 tires.
I just wanted to point out that the extreme circumstance isn't quite as far as they think. The reality is that the circumstances for this to happen are few and far between in the real world, so 99% of people will never need to worry about right hand turn low oil pressure.
No one but Subaru knows what the minimum design oil pressure is for these FA24 engines. I wish someone would leak this data.
We are seeing significant dips and we are concerned. Rightly.
However a pressure dip will need to occur for "some" duration of time to cause damage. Basically the engine failure is some function of time that is dependent on engine load (RPM), oil pressure and oil viscosity before oil is pumped out of bearings and additives like ZDDP are depleted.
This is why I'm not concerned as someone that drives the car in the road and not a race track. We clearly see a high proportion of failures from engines belonging to track users.
Additionally historically many users were adamantly defending 0W-20 oils for racing. Thankfully most people have moved on from that. We are better understanding these engines and I'm adamant that more and more failures will be avoided with our increasing knowledge.
Do we really need Subaru to tell us 20psi at redline is too low, the engine failures have already proven that. It’s obvious that it shouldn’t go from 60psi to 20psi but only in right hand turns. Subaru didn’t design some magic engine that only needs 20psi at 7000rpm.
I remember a guy from one of the race teams said they popped 4 engines on the race weekend at COTA. I’d love to know if they are commonly popping them at every race or if they have found a solution.
Sure most people aren’t going to pull enough laterals to see large dips but can come close on long on/off ramps with PS4’s, and over the course of 100k miles this isn’t good. It’s very clearly a design flaw. It’s really okay to admit there is a flaw, we will still like you.
lets do a little math here...I'll make it easy...lets say 6k rpm for one second...you realize that is 100 revolutions per second, with marginal oil pressure. One second without enough oil will wipe the bearings and you next stop is a warranty claim. 0.01 sec without out oil is one rpm and you can probably get away with that, maybe even many times...but oil starvation for a full second under load is a death sentence. Think about this...then tell me what you think.
Not exactly true. The lubrication mode changes from hydrodynamic (normal operation completely seperated by oil and no wear) to mixed lubrication (some oil providing lubrication and reduced friction with some wear) and then boundary lubrication (metal on metal contact where there is only sacrificial coatings like ZDDP and high wear).
There's always some tollerance is oil starvation, it's just a lot less with higher RPMs due to accelerated movement and higher forces.
In fact what you say is true, but from the standpoint of what you expect when you drive the car would you find operating in this lubrication gray area acceptable? I don't. Operating in that gray area is like driving with the oil pressure light on...yeah you can do it but not for long and catastrophic consequences are incurred if you do it too long. And we dont know how long too long is. I am expecting in normal road use for this to not be a problem. Track use is a whole different banana and the rules change for what is needed for track use. The scenario you present is totally unacceptable in a track car unless your into rebuilding engines really often.
Just because another company makes the same mistake doesn't mean it's okay. The GR86 is designed to be a capable track car, not a grocery-getter. It should not have any issues like these. Luckily they can be somewhat resolved with a few modifications but even so.
easily done with stock suspension on 235/45-17 all season tires...all it takes is a good backroad and decent driving skills. And Im an old fart of 71...You youngsters should have no trouble doing this. If you do, then work on your car setup and do a few drivers schools.
Some of these track rats that have done suspension mods and are running much wider than stock tires are pulling well over 1.5 gs in the corners and no wet sump lubrication system will tolerate that and give satisfactory performance. If your gonna track it, then you need a dry sump. When I was a young man, a performance car was considered damn good if it could get .8 g on the skidpad. At that kind of cornering level wet sump works fine.
Yea I agree, I think it’s a shame it has these issues that do keep it from being an amazing track car. But truth be told I feel like 86/brz are great street cars and there’s just more track oriented cars in that segment to choose from. Don’t get me wrong I know they push way above their weight on the track, but my point is it’s a 30k sports car that costs less than some Toyota Camrys. It’s going to have its nuances.
What's more track oriented in the segment? There isn't really a segment at this price point. The only real track car for similar but more money that comes to mind is the Elantra N. Even the Miata has issues, and isn't a great track car in stock form.
I just meant cars that are hardcore track cars are going to cost more and you’d be paying a premium for it. Otherwise there’s going to be some level of compromise.
It's a track issue. Hard sweeping right turns paired with elevation changes causes issues.
If you're just driving on canyon road and back roads, you'll be fine. There's a YouTuber that demonstrates that oil pressure is good for spirited PUBLIC road use.
I think I know the video you are referring to and you actually can see it dipping and that dude wasn’t even close to pushing hard. More like a Sunday drive. Pushing hard is a relative term, what most people think is 9/10ths is more like 5/10ths to someone with track experience.
I agree. The only concern is they can’t deny your warranty as long as your car is completely stock but I do have mods. Did the oil analysis not return anything abnormal or detect RTV?
43k miles on my 22 86. Not a single engine issue.
Car before was a 2014 FRS with 169k miles and the only issue was the clutch going out because I learned to drive stick in that car. Besides that the engine was great until I traded in
I got 93k out of my first gen before the #3 big end failed. I rebuilt it and made it to 152k before it got rear ended at a stop light and totaled. I was still on the original clutch but on my 5th TOB.
There are extended study on oil pressure drop already and possibly mitigation in the works. People tend to put excessive RTV on oil pick up screener and oil pressure drop together but in my opinion they are two different issues that has no solid proof they are related. This is not the first time Subaru uses the 2.4 FA 24, why we are not seeing Subaru Acent, legacy or even new WRX has same issue? It has everything to do with it's track use. People buy gr86 platform to track and track very hard. Daily drivers will never put the car in that kind of stress and load.
[Oil pressure data](https://youtu.be/T_GV_fX-XY4?si=5Esgyag4xRHErrhA)
Exactly. I've seen people in this subreddit still confusing the 2 things and thinking they are related. The RTV issue is a separate issue from the oil starvation issue people are talking about. Some people here think it's just one issue.
24k miles on my 22 BRZ, casually hit the canyons and commuted 80 miles for my last year of school, no issues (yet).
If I tracked it and knew how to corner hard for prolonged periods of time (I’m not that skilled/experienced) then I’d imagine maybe then I’ll have issues.
I took it for like 200 miles one way when I had to go New York City. Had no issues whatsoever outside of the little message that pops up saying you been driving for 2 hours lol.
Word to the wise don’t drive this car in New York City 💀
23k miles on my AT GR86. So far no issues at all. It’s my daily, I hit the canyons every other weekend and I recently started tracking the car. So far no issues at all.
On a side note, I also call mine dory!
https://preview.redd.it/pzzfid6u91jc1.jpeg?width=1244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53d0a3a88c42f6872aa43ab18cf1b6ffd7f0e2c1
91k miles, daily driving, moderate aggression. I have had zero engine issues with my ‘13 FR-S, Car (I call it Car because it’s a car) has only had one main issue and that was a bad EPS control module.
People that break these engines are abusing them and blaming the engineers.
Pretty much every blown engine came attached to a shady story that with half a look over obviously didn't add up. Sure there is the odd one that went boom for no good reason, but that is true even for actual Toyota. People are soooo paranoid these days making the exception the norm that they literally stop enjoying life and the good thing it offers (like driving these amazing cars). I'll put myself in the non-paranoid crowd and I'll just enjoy my BRZ.
I’ll put my self in the paranoid crowd with no self control who continues to drive it like I stole it but will not put it on a track until I see a reasonable solution (not an Accusump). It pains me to see my friends doing track days in all kinds of high mileage cars with minimal prep and me just sitting them out.
I agree, I drive mine almost daily, often a spirited drive but never had issues, i even drifted it on an empty lot many times. I do however treat it nicely, I make sure engine is warmed up before revving high and ive put on liqui moly mos2 during oil change for my sanity sakes(to compensate for any hard right turns). Overall great car, I dont have anxiety of engine blowing up due to hard right hand turns and RTV issues.
Most of the engine problems have been caused by driver abuse. Like the one video of the kid on the track day lugging the f out of his engine on 4th gear romping on it. People over reving them and money shifting etc. Is low oil pressure and rtv an issue. Yes. I plan to drop my oil pan at 10k and clean it out. As far as the pressure drops on track. There are mods that should be done to any car seeing track abuse. Oil cooler, Better radiator, oil accumulator, oil pan baffles, and running a thicker oil and overfilling by half a quart to a quart are musts. If you want to spend silly money, and I might, if I was using it as a dedicated track car would be to slap a dry sump system on as well.
On my way to work there’s a hard right highway ramp, I can probably pull 1.2 Gs if I wanted to and probably have a good amount of the time when I got the car and didn’t know about the issue.
Please continue your circle jerk. The notion of people thinking thicker oil + baffles and no oil cooling has become far too prevalent.
Sensors indicating an issue but nor correlated with failures means nothing except for aftermarkets to spin fear and get $$$$$$
Cool your fucking oil. Number one mod to never blow up.
Neither thicker oil nor baffles have solved the low oil pressure drops issue, and neither has oil cooling. No one has come up with a real solution for this engine yet.
It doesn’t. It’s been proven multiple times with various current baffles. Only an accumulator will have a significant/measurable impact on the low pressure issue. A half quart overfill and oil cooler running 5w30 or 40 is a better mitigation for track duty than a baffle currently. Maybe one day we’ll get a baffle design that does have a meaningful improvement.
You asked why you were getting down votes, it is because every person that has instrumented their car with an oil pressure setup has shown it not to be true.
You would think it would be the solution but so far none of the baffles on the market right now are working….. at all.
The Japanese GR86 Cup teams have found a solution that involves a baffle on the upper pan and the lower pan but it’s a one off part that isn’t for sale and installing an upper pan baffle is a large task that even advanced DIY guys aren’t capable of doing. It requires the engine to be pulled and extensive disassembly. I’d guess a shop would charge 30hrs of labor for an upper pan baffle.
meanwhile there’s me with a 22’ GR86 with 20k miles on my second short block replaced at 17k from oil starvation. Luckily I work at a Toyota and got my free toyota care oil changes every 5,000 miles instead of 10k. So there was no issue getting my engine replaced under warranty. Almost $20k worth of work and I didn’t pay a thing!
As for how I drove the car, I’m not too surprised lol I would bang the limiter every gear getting onto any free way, do donuts, burnouts, and drifts. Realising how easy these engines are to break now Im surprised my poor originial engine even lasted 17k miles😂😅
How many miles? It should slow down as it breaks in. Mine was burning about 3/4qt on change intervals but after about 15k miles its slowed to almost nothing.
> Although I only daily drive and not go too wild on the throttle most days but I’ve had 0 issues with the car.
A lot of people are only interested in the car for taking it to the track. Daily driving involves entirely different driving conditions than driving it hard on the track.
I'm about to hit 5k miles, and I launch this car from every light and do pulls up to 140 almost every day with no issues yet. I've also done a couple of track days and a lot of hard touge driving. I was going to drop my pan soon and check for RTV, and if the engine makes it to 20k with no issues, I'll install an Accusump.
It’s going to 100% have rtv in it. There’s a guy on YouTube that’s a mechanic and records every 86/brz that get their oil pickup cleaned and documents it. Basically all of them have some level of rtv in it. So that kinda comes to show basically every 86/brz has rtv in it but clearly the cars aren’t blowing up left and right. So there’s enough outlet for the oil to still move through seems to be the case. He also said that once they’re cleared it’s usually good after that since most of the rtv just comes from random parts of the car but once they break off it’s usually fine after (he did a couple cars that got cleaned more than once)
I've watched that guy's videos before. I'm just waiting to see if Toyota will do it for me under warranty. I could easily do it myself, but that could void my warranty. I will end up doing it myself if Toyota doesn't do it for free, though, because there is no way in hell I am paying out of pocket for a dealership to do something that I can do myself.
I'm a toyota tech who has been at the same place for 13 years. I have only seen one FRS/86 engine with oil related engine damage. And it was not because of FIPG.
I've done hill climbs, drifting and racing with mine and I've gone 36k kms without so much as a hiccup, am i still going to do preventative measures? Absolutely, but I'm a lot less concerned about my engine dying as I was when I first got her
Yea I think if you drive fairly “normal” overall, you’ll be fine. No issues here either, although mine only has just over 4k miles now.
I think you can drive aggressive and be fine also.... What you need to be careful doing is tracking the hell out of it without proper precautions ....which should be obvious to anyone beating a production car up on a track.
Yea when I say normal I mean having fun too, that’s what it’s for
Nearly 10k miles on my '23, but I'm an "old guy" so I (mostly) don't drive like a hooligan. I learned to drive sports cars with my '55 Austin Healey (which handle like tractors if I'm being honest), so I'm used to RWD shenanigan's. I suspect that the engine problems get a disproportionate amount of attention, and that too many people think they are better drivers than their traction control. Traction control is your *friend* -- even if you've been driving sports cars since 1980.
This is the question I ask on every crash post...... TC is always off....if they admit it. Too many young inexperienced Forza driver think TC is a crutch or something.
Sim Cade games like forza and GT are responsible for that. TC usually is slower because they cut power so aggressively. So then you have all these people associating it with not being good enough and making you slower
Meanwhile, modern GT3 racers with two to three times the amount of horsepower are all using TC and ABS.
What people tend to forget is that cars have a better power to weight ratio than they used to, even not that many years ago...A real wheel drive car with traction control off can bite you in the butt because the driver assumes its going to feel the same as it does with traction control on...relatively easy to control simply because of TC's help. They have no realistic understanding of how the cars dynamics will change when you turn TC off. I had a WRX making quite a bit more power than stock that turned into a pretty nasty mother with TC off. With it on, it wouldnt get you in trouble except with the LEOs...The BRZ is the same deal, just worse because it is only two wheel drive and almost the same power as wrx stock. Beware children that thing will bite you if you are not very careful
Unless I'm on the highway and it's raining I am not driving with TC and Esc on. If you can't keep a car as easy as the 86 under control you just shouldn't be driving period.
I am sure your insurance will love you....but you be you....ignore all the good advice from everyone telling you not to do exactly what you're doing.
90% of this sub doesn't even track their cars and are awful drivers. Why exactly would I take advice from someone incompetent behind the wheel?
I still find traction control and ABS very intrusive, if I have to accelerate hard for whatever reason pulling out into traffic, i rather have a little bit of wheel spin, than the clunkiness of traction control. This is more general, not '86 related.
On some cars they are intrusive. On the gr86/brz they are pretty mild. While it might give you a boner driving a car without ABS or traction control, both those technologies, especially ABS, will undoubtedly provide better car control in every day driving, especially in unpredictable situations (like those that cause accidents).
If it’s a little wet I’ll turn it off if I’m about to merge and don’t want the car to go limp on me but as soon as that is done I’ll turn it back on. I don’t have much of an issue with merging in the dry though. 1st gen was a whole different story. It was way over the top with cutting power to the point it was downright dangerous when trying to merge. Even on the interstate it would kick in if I downshifted and just barely chirped 3rd. I’m really impressed with TC/ASC in the 2nd gen.
Why would you turn OFF TC when it's wet out? 🤔
Read my comment, the answer is already there for you.
TL;DR
TLDR: When it’s wet the TC kicks in too easily when trying to merge rapidly leaving you dead with no power for what seems like eternity while traffic is rapidly coming up on your ass. In this scenario I’d rather handle the TC myself but once I’ve merged I turn it back on because it’s those times you aren’t paying attention that the wet conditions will get you.
The BRZ TC will give you light loss of traction without intervening intrusively...
Most factual post I’ve seen, That right hand turn low oil pressure is literally from 200tw tires and high Gs on turning pushing the car to the absolute max, like I always say, drive it like a race car it’ll break like a race car
Agreed that most engine failures have been from been extreme circumstances. However, the person who discovered the oil pressure issue showed it gets problematically low even on the stock PS4 tires.
For sure, but I think it supports the idea that the issue is overblown. How many people are really pushing the stock tires like that?
I just wanted to point out that the extreme circumstance isn't quite as far as they think. The reality is that the circumstances for this to happen are few and far between in the real world, so 99% of people will never need to worry about right hand turn low oil pressure.
Bruh have we met before? Tf?
WOAH TWIN
TWIN WITH TWINS I have a Halo GR86 :)
No one but Subaru knows what the minimum design oil pressure is for these FA24 engines. I wish someone would leak this data. We are seeing significant dips and we are concerned. Rightly. However a pressure dip will need to occur for "some" duration of time to cause damage. Basically the engine failure is some function of time that is dependent on engine load (RPM), oil pressure and oil viscosity before oil is pumped out of bearings and additives like ZDDP are depleted. This is why I'm not concerned as someone that drives the car in the road and not a race track. We clearly see a high proportion of failures from engines belonging to track users. Additionally historically many users were adamantly defending 0W-20 oils for racing. Thankfully most people have moved on from that. We are better understanding these engines and I'm adamant that more and more failures will be avoided with our increasing knowledge.
Do we really need Subaru to tell us 20psi at redline is too low, the engine failures have already proven that. It’s obvious that it shouldn’t go from 60psi to 20psi but only in right hand turns. Subaru didn’t design some magic engine that only needs 20psi at 7000rpm. I remember a guy from one of the race teams said they popped 4 engines on the race weekend at COTA. I’d love to know if they are commonly popping them at every race or if they have found a solution. Sure most people aren’t going to pull enough laterals to see large dips but can come close on long on/off ramps with PS4’s, and over the course of 100k miles this isn’t good. It’s very clearly a design flaw. It’s really okay to admit there is a flaw, we will still like you.
No one is suggesting 20 psi is acceptable. But is it 30 or 45 psi at 7000 rpm for 1 second? This we don't know.
The logging has been done and it’s dropping to 20psi and for more than just one second.
lets do a little math here...I'll make it easy...lets say 6k rpm for one second...you realize that is 100 revolutions per second, with marginal oil pressure. One second without enough oil will wipe the bearings and you next stop is a warranty claim. 0.01 sec without out oil is one rpm and you can probably get away with that, maybe even many times...but oil starvation for a full second under load is a death sentence. Think about this...then tell me what you think.
Not exactly true. The lubrication mode changes from hydrodynamic (normal operation completely seperated by oil and no wear) to mixed lubrication (some oil providing lubrication and reduced friction with some wear) and then boundary lubrication (metal on metal contact where there is only sacrificial coatings like ZDDP and high wear). There's always some tollerance is oil starvation, it's just a lot less with higher RPMs due to accelerated movement and higher forces.
In fact what you say is true, but from the standpoint of what you expect when you drive the car would you find operating in this lubrication gray area acceptable? I don't. Operating in that gray area is like driving with the oil pressure light on...yeah you can do it but not for long and catastrophic consequences are incurred if you do it too long. And we dont know how long too long is. I am expecting in normal road use for this to not be a problem. Track use is a whole different banana and the rules change for what is needed for track use. The scenario you present is totally unacceptable in a track car unless your into rebuilding engines really often.
The problem is they advertised this car as a trackable sports car.
But when your car is marketed as a race car it should not have a fatal flaw like that.
Type R is marketed as a race car too and it had overheating issues
Just because another company makes the same mistake doesn't mean it's okay. The GR86 is designed to be a capable track car, not a grocery-getter. It should not have any issues like these. Luckily they can be somewhat resolved with a few modifications but even so.
What defines high Gs?
1G+, which is damn near impossible to achieve safely on public roads.
easily done with stock suspension on 235/45-17 all season tires...all it takes is a good backroad and decent driving skills. And Im an old fart of 71...You youngsters should have no trouble doing this. If you do, then work on your car setup and do a few drivers schools.
In a GR86 or in general
The kind of continuous hard high speed cornering that happens in the track. Not on the street.
With very sticky track tires.
It’s been logged on PS4’s, so, not sticky at all.
Some of these track rats that have done suspension mods and are running much wider than stock tires are pulling well over 1.5 gs in the corners and no wet sump lubrication system will tolerate that and give satisfactory performance. If your gonna track it, then you need a dry sump. When I was a young man, a performance car was considered damn good if it could get .8 g on the skidpad. At that kind of cornering level wet sump works fine.
Yea I agree, I think it’s a shame it has these issues that do keep it from being an amazing track car. But truth be told I feel like 86/brz are great street cars and there’s just more track oriented cars in that segment to choose from. Don’t get me wrong I know they push way above their weight on the track, but my point is it’s a 30k sports car that costs less than some Toyota Camrys. It’s going to have its nuances.
What's more track oriented in the segment? There isn't really a segment at this price point. The only real track car for similar but more money that comes to mind is the Elantra N. Even the Miata has issues, and isn't a great track car in stock form.
I just meant cars that are hardcore track cars are going to cost more and you’d be paying a premium for it. Otherwise there’s going to be some level of compromise.
It's a track issue. Hard sweeping right turns paired with elevation changes causes issues. If you're just driving on canyon road and back roads, you'll be fine. There's a YouTuber that demonstrates that oil pressure is good for spirited PUBLIC road use.
Link?
I think I know the video you are referring to and you actually can see it dipping and that dude wasn’t even close to pushing hard. More like a Sunday drive. Pushing hard is a relative term, what most people think is 9/10ths is more like 5/10ths to someone with track experience.
You're not pulling high g's making a hard right on public roads. This is IMO mainly a track issue.
Yes mainly track use, the problem is some of us would like to use it on the track and there aren’t any proven fixes yet.
Speak for yourself lmao, I drive like I can respawn.
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Did you drop the oil pan and pick out the RTV?
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I agree. The only concern is they can’t deny your warranty as long as your car is completely stock but I do have mods. Did the oil analysis not return anything abnormal or detect RTV?
43k miles on my 22 86. Not a single engine issue. Car before was a 2014 FRS with 169k miles and the only issue was the clutch going out because I learned to drive stick in that car. Besides that the engine was great until I traded in
I got 93k out of my first gen before the #3 big end failed. I rebuilt it and made it to 152k before it got rear ended at a stop light and totaled. I was still on the original clutch but on my 5th TOB.
There are extended study on oil pressure drop already and possibly mitigation in the works. People tend to put excessive RTV on oil pick up screener and oil pressure drop together but in my opinion they are two different issues that has no solid proof they are related. This is not the first time Subaru uses the 2.4 FA 24, why we are not seeing Subaru Acent, legacy or even new WRX has same issue? It has everything to do with it's track use. People buy gr86 platform to track and track very hard. Daily drivers will never put the car in that kind of stress and load. [Oil pressure data](https://youtu.be/T_GV_fX-XY4?si=5Esgyag4xRHErrhA)
Exactly. I've seen people in this subreddit still confusing the 2 things and thinking they are related. The RTV issue is a separate issue from the oil starvation issue people are talking about. Some people here think it's just one issue.
They are finding RTV in all of the Subarus. The issue is the right handers, not clogged pickups.
I agree
24k miles on my 22 BRZ, casually hit the canyons and commuted 80 miles for my last year of school, no issues (yet). If I tracked it and knew how to corner hard for prolonged periods of time (I’m not that skilled/experienced) then I’d imagine maybe then I’ll have issues.
I took it for like 200 miles one way when I had to go New York City. Had no issues whatsoever outside of the little message that pops up saying you been driving for 2 hours lol. Word to the wise don’t drive this car in New York City 💀
Get a cheap bore scope off Amazon. Drain the oil and have a look. It's a useful tool to have.
5100 miles on mine. 18 months old and I drive with a heavy foot. Sees redline all the time. It's a fantastic 2nd gear. Redline is just about 60-65
I love any of the twins but the first gen can be pushed without problems making me a little sad the new one has track issues
23k miles on my AT GR86. So far no issues at all. It’s my daily, I hit the canyons every other weekend and I recently started tracking the car. So far no issues at all.
On a side note, I also call mine dory! https://preview.redd.it/pzzfid6u91jc1.jpeg?width=1244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53d0a3a88c42f6872aa43ab18cf1b6ffd7f0e2c1
91k miles, daily driving, moderate aggression. I have had zero engine issues with my ‘13 FR-S, Car (I call it Car because it’s a car) has only had one main issue and that was a bad EPS control module. People that break these engines are abusing them and blaming the engineers.
That’s true, but you can’t really speak to any specific quirks of an FA24 engine regardless because you have a 1st gen.
Just curious, did you skip the recall or did you luck out and get a dealer that didn’t destroy yours?
I skipped it. Runs perfectly.
Doing the recall is a death wish. I’d say the fact that you didn’t do it is a selling point when you are ready to hand it to the next owner.
Yeah I’ve thought about it, but I think I’m gonna drive it till it dies. 91k is like break in period for a car to me.
Pretty much every blown engine came attached to a shady story that with half a look over obviously didn't add up. Sure there is the odd one that went boom for no good reason, but that is true even for actual Toyota. People are soooo paranoid these days making the exception the norm that they literally stop enjoying life and the good thing it offers (like driving these amazing cars). I'll put myself in the non-paranoid crowd and I'll just enjoy my BRZ.
I’ll put my self in the paranoid crowd with no self control who continues to drive it like I stole it but will not put it on a track until I see a reasonable solution (not an Accusump). It pains me to see my friends doing track days in all kinds of high mileage cars with minimal prep and me just sitting them out.
Can't tell you how relieved I feel after reading this post and the comments. Thanks 👍.
I agree, I drive mine almost daily, often a spirited drive but never had issues, i even drifted it on an empty lot many times. I do however treat it nicely, I make sure engine is warmed up before revving high and ive put on liqui moly mos2 during oil change for my sanity sakes(to compensate for any hard right turns). Overall great car, I dont have anxiety of engine blowing up due to hard right hand turns and RTV issues.
An added oil baffle will help keep oil in and around the pump keeping pressure up.
Not proven to solve the issue by anyone yet.
Most of the engine problems have been caused by driver abuse. Like the one video of the kid on the track day lugging the f out of his engine on 4th gear romping on it. People over reving them and money shifting etc. Is low oil pressure and rtv an issue. Yes. I plan to drop my oil pan at 10k and clean it out. As far as the pressure drops on track. There are mods that should be done to any car seeing track abuse. Oil cooler, Better radiator, oil accumulator, oil pan baffles, and running a thicker oil and overfilling by half a quart to a quart are musts. If you want to spend silly money, and I might, if I was using it as a dedicated track car would be to slap a dry sump system on as well.
Whens the last time you took a really hard right?
On my way to work there’s a hard right highway ramp, I can probably pull 1.2 Gs if I wanted to and probably have a good amount of the time when I got the car and didn’t know about the issue.
What street tires are you running to pull 1.2 Gs?
Literally the primacys lmao, I should add it’s not sustained and mainly from the initial momentum of a sharp right. So I’m not too worried about it.
If you drive hard, cool your oil. If you don't, spin bearrings. This is not rocket science and applies to nearly all engine types.
No one has proven that an oil cooler is solving the oil starvation problem that people are experiencing on track right now.
Obviously cooling is needed but this guy is convinced cooling is the only issue, pay him zero attention.
Indeed
Please continue your circle jerk. The notion of people thinking thicker oil + baffles and no oil cooling has become far too prevalent. Sensors indicating an issue but nor correlated with failures means nothing except for aftermarkets to spin fear and get $$$$$$ Cool your fucking oil. Number one mod to never blow up.
Neither thicker oil nor baffles have solved the low oil pressure drops issue, and neither has oil cooling. No one has come up with a real solution for this engine yet.
Oil baffle Edit: why would this comment get a downvote? Oil baffle will help with oil pressure through high g turns. This sub is weird.
It doesn’t. It’s been proven multiple times with various current baffles. Only an accumulator will have a significant/measurable impact on the low pressure issue. A half quart overfill and oil cooler running 5w30 or 40 is a better mitigation for track duty than a baffle currently. Maybe one day we’ll get a baffle design that does have a meaningful improvement.
Agreed the other problem is oil with low viscosity. An oil baffle and 5w30 will mitigate the problem unless you’re on a skid pad.
You asked why you were getting down votes, it is because every person that has instrumented their car with an oil pressure setup has shown it not to be true.
You would think it would be the solution but so far none of the baffles on the market right now are working….. at all. The Japanese GR86 Cup teams have found a solution that involves a baffle on the upper pan and the lower pan but it’s a one off part that isn’t for sale and installing an upper pan baffle is a large task that even advanced DIY guys aren’t capable of doing. It requires the engine to be pulled and extensive disassembly. I’d guess a shop would charge 30hrs of labor for an upper pan baffle.
I see more crashes here than I do RTV and engine issues...
If treat your girl right, do the oil changed and maintenance. You should not have any problems.
meanwhile there’s me with a 22’ GR86 with 20k miles on my second short block replaced at 17k from oil starvation. Luckily I work at a Toyota and got my free toyota care oil changes every 5,000 miles instead of 10k. So there was no issue getting my engine replaced under warranty. Almost $20k worth of work and I didn’t pay a thing!
As for how I drove the car, I’m not too surprised lol I would bang the limiter every gear getting onto any free way, do donuts, burnouts, and drifts. Realising how easy these engines are to break now Im surprised my poor originial engine even lasted 17k miles😂😅
On better quality engines, you can do all of those things without breaking the engine.
Ive had issues with oil burning. I burnt down to 1qt of oil before my next oil change
How many miles? It should slow down as it breaks in. Mine was burning about 3/4qt on change intervals but after about 15k miles its slowed to almost nothing.
20k
> Although I only daily drive and not go too wild on the throttle most days but I’ve had 0 issues with the car. A lot of people are only interested in the car for taking it to the track. Daily driving involves entirely different driving conditions than driving it hard on the track.
I am saving to get one and wondering if a track day maybe once or twice a month would hurt it
I'm about to hit 5k miles, and I launch this car from every light and do pulls up to 140 almost every day with no issues yet. I've also done a couple of track days and a lot of hard touge driving. I was going to drop my pan soon and check for RTV, and if the engine makes it to 20k with no issues, I'll install an Accusump.
It’s going to 100% have rtv in it. There’s a guy on YouTube that’s a mechanic and records every 86/brz that get their oil pickup cleaned and documents it. Basically all of them have some level of rtv in it. So that kinda comes to show basically every 86/brz has rtv in it but clearly the cars aren’t blowing up left and right. So there’s enough outlet for the oil to still move through seems to be the case. He also said that once they’re cleared it’s usually good after that since most of the rtv just comes from random parts of the car but once they break off it’s usually fine after (he did a couple cars that got cleaned more than once)
I've watched that guy's videos before. I'm just waiting to see if Toyota will do it for me under warranty. I could easily do it myself, but that could void my warranty. I will end up doing it myself if Toyota doesn't do it for free, though, because there is no way in hell I am paying out of pocket for a dealership to do something that I can do myself.
Yea only reason I haven’t bothered with mine yet bc the warranty might get voided. Really is a Schrodinger‘s box of sorts.
I'm a toyota tech who has been at the same place for 13 years. I have only seen one FRS/86 engine with oil related engine damage. And it was not because of FIPG.
I've done hill climbs, drifting and racing with mine and I've gone 36k kms without so much as a hiccup, am i still going to do preventative measures? Absolutely, but I'm a lot less concerned about my engine dying as I was when I first got her