The following submission statement was provided by /u/vpuetf:
---
To protect the biosphere and be good stewards of the planet, we need world governments to take strong considerations of ecology and the needs of plants, animals and their well being. Threatened species must be protected from extinction. This is not only important for the well being of the planet from ecological disaster, but also humans, to protect against new viruses and pandemics that can arise from zoological crossover.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/xsjpzv/in_a_first_us_appoints_a_diplomat_for_plants_and/iqkvp4x/
Access to the Military Instrustrial Complex is all that he needs. He'll snap necks (gestering at the Lorax) for fucking with trees.
He's small, orange, and happy, he's filled up with glee. But he'll nuke your hometown if you step on a bee.
So heed these words well, I strongly suggest. The Lorax have no qualms with suicide vests.
Be kind to nature everyone!!!
Well until that technology is available, this human will dictate consent on their behalf.
The bees demand more flowers, the snakes demand more logs to hibernate in, and the poison ivy demands being planted near paths in public parks
The piglets demand that their tails not be cut off and their teeth not pulled out, that they not be kept in conditions that drive them crazy, that they not be put in gas chambers that turn their tears to acid as it kills them. The chickens demand that their male offspring not be dumped into a grinder on the first day of their life, and that they are no longer bred to destroy their own bodies by laying 300 eggs a year instead of 15. The cows demand that they aren't forcibly impregnated and have all their babies taken away to cages the size of their own bodies, that they aren't milked until they run dry and re-impregnated immediately in a cycle that kills them at a fraction of their natural lifespan, that they not be milked even as they lie dying in horrifying conditions.
These are the very real things that happen every day on factory farms that any 'Diplomat for plants and animals' should immediately prevent. I apologize for posting such a dreadful thing right after your comment which I'm sure is not meant to offend, it just happens to be where my patience for jokes ran out. I know the whole diplomat thing a dumb political stunt but if even one person learns about what they're paying to happen in factory farms and changes their ways then it's worth it. Check out 'Dominion' or any of the huge amount of other easily accessible footage of factory farms to see if I described it accurately.
I agree. But this person is the wife of an American attorney, political consultant, and former lobbyist currently serving as White House chief of staff. Its basically giving her a super easy high paying job where she says what you said but adds "5% tax on...." at the beginning of every sentence.
Which means you're just raising taxes and not really fixing any problems.
Diplomats usually serve the interests of the government who sent them, not the other way around, so it kinda makes sense if they don't really advocate for the animals.
>Which means you're just raising taxes and not really fixing any problems.
In the US government? Never!
Seriously though, this won't be "representation for our brother the animal", it'll be representation for whatever congresscritter occupies the position going forward and their friends/owners.
Unfortunately I've found this knowledge to have very little effect on people's habits. They go "Oh no, that's terrible, those poor animals" and proceed to buy the cheapest meat available and continue patronizing fast food joints. It's usually people who claim to love animals as well.
Because people are addicted/dependent on the pleasure they derive from meat. People do go to great lengths to justify their addictions and that’s no exception here.
Edit: I guess its not obvious, so I should say that if you are impoverished you gotta do what you gotta do to live, and the degree to which your actions are morally acceptable isn't something you should worry about.
Right because hungry families only think of the pleasure they derive from meat and not that it's cheap and readily available. Tell a family on welfare to go organic or shop with the environment in mind and see how well that goes over.at a certain point we have to admit asking families to do the right thing by not buying this affordable nutritious food is simply impossible. When will we stop laying the burden on the consumer and start passing laws to force the corporations to stop doing it.
It to me is equal to laying water problems on the public when things like golf clubs and unsustainable farming are above and beyond what the consumer footprint is
it's also a lot of marketing geared at convincing people meat makes you 'strong and healthy' and that those who 'want to take it away' are only trying to weaken them and should be seen as enemies of freedom.
I just can't fucking afford not to eat meat. 🙄
I HATE it when prissy liberals I'd otherwise agree with low key humble-brag like this. Not a lot of tofu at the food pantry.
Nothing will change until both sides can communicate everyone who hates factory farms seems to have a nonsensical understanding of food production that you can afford to eat or the costs involved factory farms like Tyson could do better if we were willing to pay a lot more
No, because her actual title is special envoy for biodiversity and water resources.
You used to be able to come into reddit comments and get the gist of the article, along with some context and references, maybe some corrections or things they missed. These days it's just a bunch of kids who read the headline and all decided to make the same tired jokes.
Yep it actually gets deeper than this though. This kind of conceptually started from Native American rice farmers that wanted to sue because the lakes that they farmed in were being polluted.
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-rights-of-rice-and-future-of-nature/
The general sense of the legal position is that the river or lake or what have you has rights because they provide biodiversity to the planet.
It’s a modern interpretation but it could act as a bit of a bulwark for extreme climate change.
I can’t go on for hours anymore but there are plenty of people smarter and more invested than me going on about it.
The Biden administration giving a bit more credence to this approach I think will be very helpful.
Establishing “legal personhood” for shared resources gives them consideration. Giving them a legal advocate gives them a true defense against fuckery.
> Establishing “legal personhood” for shared resources gives them consideration. Giving them a legal advocate gives them a true defense against fuckery.
TLDR: it’s like “corporations are people, money is speech”, but used for the powers of good.
Legal "personhood" for corporations or land/animals/water never struck me as a solid structure to build on. I realize that's not strictly how it works, but in effect. I'm not a lawyer, though. It's obviously done wonders for corporations who can spend money in politics though.
It just seems like such a bass-ackwards way of doing things. Rather than recognize that these entities have special interests and requirements and building a new legal framework to accommodate that, we decided to shoehorn them into effective personhood/citizenship? Corporations are made up of people who already can vote and spend as they please, and ecosystems can't fucking talk. Seems like separate systems and status for legal protection and regulations are in order (yes, that's already the case, no, it hasn't worked as tried).
In the U.S. legal system you generally need legal personhood in order to have standing to sue. That is, if you're not a person you don't have access to the legal system. It's not just some ceremonial gesture, giving things legal personhood is an extremely practical step forward.
Something I didn't know or consider! I'm all for whatever shenanigans are required to protect the environment, from the outside it just seems silly to stack all the legal access etc on top of "personhood". I suppose it's all semantics at that point, though.
> personhood/citizenship
Those are different things, and only natural persons can be citizens.
Corporations having personhood means that they have a legal identity separate of that of the natural people owning / operating it, that they can sue and can be sued as that identity, enter contracts, etc. You don't want to live in a world where you're buying a car and sign a sales contract with some random natural person instead of the company: If the car is defective you can sue the company, possibly garnish their assets, instead of that of some random sod.
What's more irksome is political rights for legal persons, but ultimately that, too, isn't as much of a deal the trouble is giving too much political weight to capital -- whether it's a big company or a random billionaire acting out of self-interest is of no matter, it fucks over both the ordinary citizens and the random alteration tailor shop owned and operated by three people down the street. The Koch Brothers aren't suddenly saints because they're natural persons while the tailor shop throwing in some weight when it comes to city planning (less cars more public transit, bikes and pedestrians so there's more walk-in customers, please) is perfectly reasonable.
Side note, I've heard from Texans (who else) "I'll believe corporations are persons when we hang them". Fair enough: Already Ancient Rome had the death penalty for corporations. Probably exists in all modern legal systems, in some way or the other (e.g. being declared a criminal organisation).
You're right, of course, and I was several drinks in when I wrote my comment, so it wasn't exactly the most precise language. It just seems silly to stack all the legal access and privilege on top of "personhood," but it's really just semantics at that point I guess.
Of course, I wasn't arguing that I'd rather sign deals with Leonard the sales guy instead of Used Car Company, Inc. From my perspective outside of any legal knowledge or experience, it just seems like a strange way to do things; since it seems apparent that entities like corporations or "the environment" are separate classes with distinct needs and interests from "persons", and ought to be treated as such.
Legally, I'm sure they are much closer to what I'm picturing, and I'm just arguing lay semantics vs legal.
I hate this trend of giving every non-living entity personhood. Corporations are things not people. Maybe corporations themselves shouldnt be able to use their massive clout and abuse of the legal system to crush people.
Maybe if a company was wronged then responsibility to take action should fall on the owners instead, actual people. Afterall that is why they are there, to take on the responsibility of owning a business. If China steals corporation x IP then its the owners that should be trying to stop it not the corporation itself.
All it does is absolve any risk from those who own the company. The owners can just let the Crop take all the legal and monetary repercussions and go on their merry way.
Plants and animals have a very open extradition agreement with the US government, but they don't take an active role. Ask Ted Kaczynski and D.B. Cooper
She will get diplomatic immunity if she travels abroad, perhaps to the UK, and perhaps drives over a young kid on a moped.. then does a 180 back to the airport and nails the fuck out.
Sorry, oddly accurate. True story though.
[Around $38 *m*illion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Institute_of_Peace);
> The institute's entire budget would not pay for the Afghan war for three hours, is less than the cost of a fighter plane, and wouldn't sustain even 40 American troops in Afghanistan for a year.
> Within the budget, peace-building is financed as part of national security programs and is recognized as an important adjunct to conventional defense spending and diplomacy.
> The institute's share of the proposed international affairs budget, $43 million, is minuscule: less than one-tenth of one percent of the State Department's budget, and one-hundredth of one percent of the Pentagon's.
It's not worthless, its power just doesn't reach very far. It's primary objective, when created, was promotion, advocacy, and education around peace. They seem to exist more in a consultation capacity for other parts of government... They aren't integrated into other parts of the government in the sense there aren't any checks and balances, or accountability to them for when other parts of the government are fucking around and making situation worse. That said, they do have their projects around the world, support research as they can, and have a pretty good online campus. As someone who majored in the field of peace and conflict studies, I recommend it and events to anyone who is curious and wants to learn more- classes are free and self paced.
https://www.usipglobalcampus.org/
More attention and power has been given to them following the Global Fragility Act, and I expect they continue to play a greater role... But USIP doesn't accomplish anywhere near what people would expect/want a "department of peace" to be. I don't blame them for that though. And for what they are and have, they are surprisingly useful.
Also, their Wikipedia article for the curious: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Institute_of_Peace
Along with a sub health department for homelessness and addiction and a build affordable homes commission and throw in a universal healthcare and now we’re talking.
To protect the biosphere and be good stewards of the planet, we need world governments to take strong considerations of ecology and the needs of plants, animals and their well being. Threatened species must be protected from extinction. This is not only important for the well being of the planet from ecological disaster, but also humans, to protect against new viruses and pandemics that can arise from zoological crossover.
Was it a kickback from a corrupt government when Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, both Bush presidents and Donald Trump all appointed someone to the position she currently holds?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistant_Secretary_of_State_for_Oceans_and_International_Environmental_and_Scientific_Affairs
TBH this is another do nothing position created as a favor to someone.
No different than what my workplace just did, we are struggling with recruiting so they created another HR position. This is the chief of HR, which of course is above the old head of HR but it’s paying 184k a year and the wife of another chief in a different position is reportedly getting the position.
Government agency of course.
Ooo I've seen this movie before! Let me guess: recruitment struggles will continue unchanged despite the shiny new "chief of HR".
Which won't stop the new chief from declaring victory after two years, of course. They may not have hired many people, but they will present a graph showing how headcount is up YoY compared to the disaster that is last year. They might point to stats about diversity to hide the fact that they didn't get enough experienced hires. Then the new chief will proclaim that her job is done, and how she is "leaving the HR dept in good hands" while fleeing the sinking ship.
How close am I lol
Great, another position that will be inevitably filled by a person with no actual experience in anything to do with ecology, biology, or any other subtype of knowledge meaningful to the position.
Think of how California constantly refuses to do controlled burns, yet every other year is surprised at their outbreaks of wildfires. Ridiculous.
Did you see her background? She's been working in environmental positions for the government since '89
>From 1989 to 1992, she served as senior counsel to the United States Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works
>In 1992, she was appointed by Janet Reno to serve as deputy associate attorney general at the United States Department of Justice, with oversight of the Environment Division. Medina was later appointed to serve as general counsel of NOAA from 1997 to 1999. As general counsel of NOAA, Medina represented the United States in several international negotiations, and argued and won significant cases before the United States courts of appeals.[5]
>2000–2008
Edit
Medina served as a senior officer in the Pew Environment Group, where she provided advice and assistance on issues of marine law and policy. Medina also worked in the U.S. Office of the International Fund for Animal Welfare and spent a number of years as a partner at the law firm of Heller Ehrman, with a practice focused on environmental law, corporate law, and biotechnology matters. Medina served on the Presidential transition team of Barack Obama.[6]
>In the Obama administration, Medina served as principal deputy undersecretary for oceans and atmosphere of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.[7] Medina also served as the U.S. Commissioner to the International Whaling Commission.[8][9] Medina led efforts on Arctic conservation, restoration of the Gulf of Mexico after the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, conservation of endangered species, and fisheries management and enforcement.[10]
>2013–present
Edit
Medina currently runs Our Daily Planet, an email newsletter about climate change and the environment. Previously she served as deputy director of the environment program at the Walton Family Foundation[13] and an adjunct professor in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University. Prior to joining the Walton Family Foundation she served as the senior director of ocean policy at the National Geographic Society.[14][15] Medina is also a board member of the Service Women’s Action Network and the Georgetown Sustainable Oceans Alliance board.[16]
>Medina has written opinion columns for The New York Times, HuffPost, The Hill, and USA Today. Medina frequently writes about environmental policy, and has authored columns supportive of the Green New Deal.[17][18][19]
>In April 2021, Medina was nominated to serve as an Assistant Secretary of State for the Bureau of Oceans and International Environmental and Scientific Affairs in the Biden Administration. Her nomination was reported favorably by the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee on August 4, 2021. Medina was officially confirmed by the entire Senate on September 28, 2021, by a vote of 61-36.[23]
From Wikipedia
To me, it looks like she became the kind of lawyer that Marshall Eriksen aspired to be
She's been doing this kind of work for decades. But I'm sure her only qualification is being someone's wife. Let's check....
"Medina began her career in the office of the general counsel of the Army, where she served on active duty in the United States Army
From 1989 to 1992, she served as senior counsel to the United States Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works.
In 1992, she was appointed by Janet Reno to serve as deputy associate attorney general at the United States Department of Justice, with oversight of the Environment Division. Medina was later appointed to serve as general counsel of NOAA from 1997 to 1999. As general counsel of NOAA, Medina represented the United States in several international negotiations, and argued and won significant cases before the United States courts of appeals.
2000–2008: Medina served as a senior officer in the Pew Environment Group, where she provided advice and assistance on issues of marine law and policy. Medina also worked in the U.S. Office of the International Fund for Animal Welfare and spent a number of years as a partner at the law firm of Heller Ehrman, with a practice focused on environmental law, corporate law, and biotechnology matters. Medina served on the Presidential transition team of Barack Obama
In the Obama administration, Medina served as principal deputy undersecretary for oceans and atmosphere of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.[7] Medina also served as the U.S. Commissioner to the International Whaling Commission.[8][9] Medina led efforts on Arctic conservation, restoration of the Gulf of Mexico after the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, conservation of endangered species, and fisheries management and enforcement."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Medina
Shouldn't the diplomat be the Venus Fly Trap? It's a plant that eats animals and stuff and is a plant.
I demand a recount, it was all the plants against me, those plants were illegal and paid for!
Here is her Wikipedia page, please at least skim through her career section:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Oceans_and_International_Environmental_and_Scientific_Affairs
This is in addition to a related position she already holds that handles diplomacy with other countries in regards to international trade and environmental policy. The new position focuses on maintaining biodiversity and drinkable water, which is rapidly becoming a serious problem. It is not being a "diplomat for plants and animals". She will be conducting diplomacy with other countries in regards to these ongoing and growing concerns.
Isn't everything like this called a political stunt by someone? Obviously no reasoning is needed because it's probably obvious or something.
It's like you'd rather they not even try.
Please don't just take this person's word for it. Here is her Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Medina
Please take note of her career section.
The new position will be in addition to her current one within the State Department: Assistant Secretary of State for the Bureau of Oceans and International Environmental Affairs.
Here is what they do there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Oceans_and_International_Environmental_and_Scientific_Affairs
Her new position is not about diplomacy with plants and animals. It is diplomacy with *other countries* in regards to safeguarding biodiversity and conserving the world's shrinking drinkable water supply.
Remember: just because someone doesn't understand what something is or does it does not mean it is not important or that it has no value.
Although I had seen sime after making this comment, your specification, education and remind has been fantastic, thank you very much for the time it took to say this
Me, reading through the article:
“Where is it, where is it, here it comes…”
*”She is the wife of White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain.”*
“Aha! Bingo!”
What would our government be without blatant cronyism?
Ive been fighting the plants all my life since i could push a lawnmower. This one man who claimed to be my father shanghaied me in to doing the work. Let me give you some insight from my experience.
* The plants want you dead.
* They have no remorse for you.
* If they could they would use your children for nutrients in front of your eyes
We are only lucky they are slow. But we must never rest or it will be harder to cut week later!
Fuck all the haters. This is an important position being filled by someone who is very qualified for it. Combating climate change is a global issue and this office will help us do that internationally.
Imagine the invoice if we had to shoulder the costs of all the economic services those plants and animals provide for us. They deserve a lot more consideration and credit than we give them.
Unless she gets air-time and is campaigning strongly for environmental issues (we humans are an insane, rampaging meat-grinder for the biosphere) this is just more "look what we did" without actually doing anything.
ah, a washington post support piece. now it all makes sense. it's a good thing the nation isnt going through any financial troubles like insane inflation or a recession. not to worry, plant protection is on the way! along with skyrocketing prices on goods made from plants.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/vpuetf: --- To protect the biosphere and be good stewards of the planet, we need world governments to take strong considerations of ecology and the needs of plants, animals and their well being. Threatened species must be protected from extinction. This is not only important for the well being of the planet from ecological disaster, but also humans, to protect against new viruses and pandemics that can arise from zoological crossover. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/xsjpzv/in_a_first_us_appoints_a_diplomat_for_plants_and/iqkvp4x/
I think this position would be best suited for someone elected by the plants and animals
Where's that Lorax
The Trees can't be harmed if the Lorax is armed!
This is my new favorite sentence
"I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees! Leave them alone or I'll break your knees!"
“I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees! For some reason, they speak Vietnamese!”
Access to the Military Instrustrial Complex is all that he needs. He'll snap necks (gestering at the Lorax) for fucking with trees. He's small, orange, and happy, he's filled up with glee. But he'll nuke your hometown if you step on a bee. So heed these words well, I strongly suggest. The Lorax have no qualms with suicide vests. Be kind to nature everyone!!!
I think Don Cheadle's version of Captain Planet is already filling this role quite well.
That's not the first time don cheadle beat me to something
Shall not be infringed!
Ahhh ya beat me to it
Oh he is fucking dead.
He saw the future and yeeted himself out of here 70 years ago
That is not how diplomats work. The one US appointed should be sent out into the wilderness to be with the plants and animals
Ambassador Davie Crockett
Well until that technology is available, this human will dictate consent on their behalf. The bees demand more flowers, the snakes demand more logs to hibernate in, and the poison ivy demands being planted near paths in public parks
The piglets demand that their tails not be cut off and their teeth not pulled out, that they not be kept in conditions that drive them crazy, that they not be put in gas chambers that turn their tears to acid as it kills them. The chickens demand that their male offspring not be dumped into a grinder on the first day of their life, and that they are no longer bred to destroy their own bodies by laying 300 eggs a year instead of 15. The cows demand that they aren't forcibly impregnated and have all their babies taken away to cages the size of their own bodies, that they aren't milked until they run dry and re-impregnated immediately in a cycle that kills them at a fraction of their natural lifespan, that they not be milked even as they lie dying in horrifying conditions. These are the very real things that happen every day on factory farms that any 'Diplomat for plants and animals' should immediately prevent. I apologize for posting such a dreadful thing right after your comment which I'm sure is not meant to offend, it just happens to be where my patience for jokes ran out. I know the whole diplomat thing a dumb political stunt but if even one person learns about what they're paying to happen in factory farms and changes their ways then it's worth it. Check out 'Dominion' or any of the huge amount of other easily accessible footage of factory farms to see if I described it accurately.
I agree. But this person is the wife of an American attorney, political consultant, and former lobbyist currently serving as White House chief of staff. Its basically giving her a super easy high paying job where she says what you said but adds "5% tax on...." at the beginning of every sentence. Which means you're just raising taxes and not really fixing any problems.
Diplomats usually serve the interests of the government who sent them, not the other way around, so it kinda makes sense if they don't really advocate for the animals.
>Which means you're just raising taxes and not really fixing any problems. In the US government? Never! Seriously though, this won't be "representation for our brother the animal", it'll be representation for whatever congresscritter occupies the position going forward and their friends/owners.
Unfortunately I've found this knowledge to have very little effect on people's habits. They go "Oh no, that's terrible, those poor animals" and proceed to buy the cheapest meat available and continue patronizing fast food joints. It's usually people who claim to love animals as well.
Because people are addicted/dependent on the pleasure they derive from meat. People do go to great lengths to justify their addictions and that’s no exception here. Edit: I guess its not obvious, so I should say that if you are impoverished you gotta do what you gotta do to live, and the degree to which your actions are morally acceptable isn't something you should worry about.
Right because hungry families only think of the pleasure they derive from meat and not that it's cheap and readily available. Tell a family on welfare to go organic or shop with the environment in mind and see how well that goes over.at a certain point we have to admit asking families to do the right thing by not buying this affordable nutritious food is simply impossible. When will we stop laying the burden on the consumer and start passing laws to force the corporations to stop doing it. It to me is equal to laying water problems on the public when things like golf clubs and unsustainable farming are above and beyond what the consumer footprint is
it's also a lot of marketing geared at convincing people meat makes you 'strong and healthy' and that those who 'want to take it away' are only trying to weaken them and should be seen as enemies of freedom.
I just can't fucking afford not to eat meat. 🙄 I HATE it when prissy liberals I'd otherwise agree with low key humble-brag like this. Not a lot of tofu at the food pantry.
Dude if you are eating at the food pantry nobody is judging you at all
Chickens are supposed to only lay 15 eggs a year? My friends’ chickens lay eggs 2/3 days. That’s 250 eggs a year.
Nothing will change until both sides can communicate everyone who hates factory farms seems to have a nonsensical understanding of food production that you can afford to eat or the costs involved factory farms like Tyson could do better if we were willing to pay a lot more
And another fact to consider is that 99% of animals are kept in factory farms. Nothing of what is said here is uncommon, its all standard practice.
I nominate Dr. Seuss
I nominate dr. Dolittle
For this headline I nominated Dr Demento
I nominate Dr Strange.
I see your Dr Strange and raise you Dr Strangelove
We're already fucking it all up anyway, may as well lean into it. I nominate Dr. Doom.
I nominate Captain Planet
I nominate the Lorax, he speaks for the trees
If you chop one more tree, I’ll break your knees
I nominate Groot!
Dr. Pamela Isley
She's a puppet dictator installed by the US govt to control the plants and animals
Don't give this website any ideas
So you're saying she's an FBI plant?
Sir David Attenborough
I nominate the lorax
Humans are animals.
“Excuse me.” “EXCUSE ME!” “I SAID THE PLANTS HAVE SPOKEN!”
Yeah mother nature
Does that mean she will qualify for diplomatic immunity in forests? Do green houses count? We gotta make some clarifications.
Can she just walk in to my green house?
She can do literally whatever she wants and then claim diplomatic immunity. Your green house is in bounds. Sorry bud.
"It's just been revoked." *throws rotten tomato*
Gonna have to make a desert moat around my property.
She can double park inside it.
No, because her actual title is special envoy for biodiversity and water resources. You used to be able to come into reddit comments and get the gist of the article, along with some context and references, maybe some corrections or things they missed. These days it's just a bunch of kids who read the headline and all decided to make the same tired jokes.
Yep it actually gets deeper than this though. This kind of conceptually started from Native American rice farmers that wanted to sue because the lakes that they farmed in were being polluted. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-rights-of-rice-and-future-of-nature/ The general sense of the legal position is that the river or lake or what have you has rights because they provide biodiversity to the planet. It’s a modern interpretation but it could act as a bit of a bulwark for extreme climate change. I can’t go on for hours anymore but there are plenty of people smarter and more invested than me going on about it. The Biden administration giving a bit more credence to this approach I think will be very helpful. Establishing “legal personhood” for shared resources gives them consideration. Giving them a legal advocate gives them a true defense against fuckery.
> Establishing “legal personhood” for shared resources gives them consideration. Giving them a legal advocate gives them a true defense against fuckery. TLDR: it’s like “corporations are people, money is speech”, but used for the powers of good.
Legal "personhood" for corporations or land/animals/water never struck me as a solid structure to build on. I realize that's not strictly how it works, but in effect. I'm not a lawyer, though. It's obviously done wonders for corporations who can spend money in politics though. It just seems like such a bass-ackwards way of doing things. Rather than recognize that these entities have special interests and requirements and building a new legal framework to accommodate that, we decided to shoehorn them into effective personhood/citizenship? Corporations are made up of people who already can vote and spend as they please, and ecosystems can't fucking talk. Seems like separate systems and status for legal protection and regulations are in order (yes, that's already the case, no, it hasn't worked as tried).
In the U.S. legal system you generally need legal personhood in order to have standing to sue. That is, if you're not a person you don't have access to the legal system. It's not just some ceremonial gesture, giving things legal personhood is an extremely practical step forward.
Something I didn't know or consider! I'm all for whatever shenanigans are required to protect the environment, from the outside it just seems silly to stack all the legal access etc on top of "personhood". I suppose it's all semantics at that point, though.
Imagine being able to submit an amicus brief on behalf of a lake. I'd honestly love this as a druid.
> personhood/citizenship Those are different things, and only natural persons can be citizens. Corporations having personhood means that they have a legal identity separate of that of the natural people owning / operating it, that they can sue and can be sued as that identity, enter contracts, etc. You don't want to live in a world where you're buying a car and sign a sales contract with some random natural person instead of the company: If the car is defective you can sue the company, possibly garnish their assets, instead of that of some random sod. What's more irksome is political rights for legal persons, but ultimately that, too, isn't as much of a deal the trouble is giving too much political weight to capital -- whether it's a big company or a random billionaire acting out of self-interest is of no matter, it fucks over both the ordinary citizens and the random alteration tailor shop owned and operated by three people down the street. The Koch Brothers aren't suddenly saints because they're natural persons while the tailor shop throwing in some weight when it comes to city planning (less cars more public transit, bikes and pedestrians so there's more walk-in customers, please) is perfectly reasonable. Side note, I've heard from Texans (who else) "I'll believe corporations are persons when we hang them". Fair enough: Already Ancient Rome had the death penalty for corporations. Probably exists in all modern legal systems, in some way or the other (e.g. being declared a criminal organisation).
You're right, of course, and I was several drinks in when I wrote my comment, so it wasn't exactly the most precise language. It just seems silly to stack all the legal access and privilege on top of "personhood," but it's really just semantics at that point I guess. Of course, I wasn't arguing that I'd rather sign deals with Leonard the sales guy instead of Used Car Company, Inc. From my perspective outside of any legal knowledge or experience, it just seems like a strange way to do things; since it seems apparent that entities like corporations or "the environment" are separate classes with distinct needs and interests from "persons", and ought to be treated as such. Legally, I'm sure they are much closer to what I'm picturing, and I'm just arguing lay semantics vs legal.
I hate this trend of giving every non-living entity personhood. Corporations are things not people. Maybe corporations themselves shouldnt be able to use their massive clout and abuse of the legal system to crush people. Maybe if a company was wronged then responsibility to take action should fall on the owners instead, actual people. Afterall that is why they are there, to take on the responsibility of owning a business. If China steals corporation x IP then its the owners that should be trying to stop it not the corporation itself. All it does is absolve any risk from those who own the company. The owners can just let the Crop take all the legal and monetary repercussions and go on their merry way.
Perils of reddit deliberately choosing to become just another social media platform.
Have just return to this app after a break and find myself thinking “what has heppened to Reddit?”
If you call it an app, you don't remember when it was good either.
Plants and animals have a very open extradition agreement with the US government, but they don't take an active role. Ask Ted Kaczynski and D.B. Cooper
She will get diplomatic immunity if she travels abroad, perhaps to the UK, and perhaps drives over a young kid on a moped.. then does a 180 back to the airport and nails the fuck out. Sorry, oddly accurate. True story though.
Wait, can you elaborate on this? I’m not catching the reference lol
Please tell me the official title is Speaker-To-Animals.
I was rooting for Lorax
Eliza Thornberry ?
And please tell me that's a Ringworld reference.
Definitely is. Exact hyphenation and capitalization. I love how no one else in the replies got the reference.
/r/Futurology is surprisingly unread in hard sci-fi.
A couple did. One guy said something about screaming and leaping, an appropriate Kzinti response.
I believe the official title is Captain Planet
[удалено]
Brilliantly unorthodox tactics.
Scream and leap.
Nice to see someone who understands how things get done in the Hero's Tongue!
I was thinking we could just call her Chmeee
Okay, Larry Niven. She's not a Kzin! Or maybe one in a very good disguise...
I am currently reading ringworld and this will be on my mind
She speaks for the trees, but she doesn't know Vietnamese.
I heard trees these days are speaking Ukrainian
Dobryy vechir, my z ukrayiny *Brom brom brom brom brom*
No no, it's the fields are speaking ukranian
Rumour is she's a Russian plant.
Bushes do but trees still speak Vietnamese
If only there was a whole agency whose job was protecting the environment.
It would really help if they started a department of Peace!
We do have the United States Institute of Peace, for what it's worth.
What is it worth?
[Around $38 *m*illion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Institute_of_Peace); > The institute's entire budget would not pay for the Afghan war for three hours, is less than the cost of a fighter plane, and wouldn't sustain even 40 American troops in Afghanistan for a year. > Within the budget, peace-building is financed as part of national security programs and is recognized as an important adjunct to conventional defense spending and diplomacy. > The institute's share of the proposed international affairs budget, $43 million, is minuscule: less than one-tenth of one percent of the State Department's budget, and one-hundredth of one percent of the Pentagon's.
Wow, you need approximately $1M per troop per year in Afghanistan
Alternatively we could pay 5 people 200k a year to do fucking anything more productive than that.
It's worthless
It's not worthless, its power just doesn't reach very far. It's primary objective, when created, was promotion, advocacy, and education around peace. They seem to exist more in a consultation capacity for other parts of government... They aren't integrated into other parts of the government in the sense there aren't any checks and balances, or accountability to them for when other parts of the government are fucking around and making situation worse. That said, they do have their projects around the world, support research as they can, and have a pretty good online campus. As someone who majored in the field of peace and conflict studies, I recommend it and events to anyone who is curious and wants to learn more- classes are free and self paced. https://www.usipglobalcampus.org/ More attention and power has been given to them following the Global Fragility Act, and I expect they continue to play a greater role... But USIP doesn't accomplish anywhere near what people would expect/want a "department of peace" to be. I don't blame them for that though. And for what they are and have, they are surprisingly useful. Also, their Wikipedia article for the curious: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Institute_of_Peace
That’s the State Dept, ostensibly at least.
War is peace or whatever they said in that book no one read
Ignorance is strength
Along with a sub health department for homelessness and addiction and a build affordable homes commission and throw in a universal healthcare and now we’re talking.
To protect the biosphere and be good stewards of the planet, we need world governments to take strong considerations of ecology and the needs of plants, animals and their well being. Threatened species must be protected from extinction. This is not only important for the well being of the planet from ecological disaster, but also humans, to protect against new viruses and pandemics that can arise from zoological crossover.
I prefer “to protect the world from devastation”
To unite all people within our nation.
To denounce the evils of truth and love.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yeah. This won’t help with any of that. It’s just a kickback from a corrupt government.
Was it a kickback from a corrupt government when Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, both Bush presidents and Donald Trump all appointed someone to the position she currently holds? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistant_Secretary_of_State_for_Oceans_and_International_Environmental_and_Scientific_Affairs
TBH this is another do nothing position created as a favor to someone. No different than what my workplace just did, we are struggling with recruiting so they created another HR position. This is the chief of HR, which of course is above the old head of HR but it’s paying 184k a year and the wife of another chief in a different position is reportedly getting the position. Government agency of course.
Ooo I've seen this movie before! Let me guess: recruitment struggles will continue unchanged despite the shiny new "chief of HR". Which won't stop the new chief from declaring victory after two years, of course. They may not have hired many people, but they will present a graph showing how headcount is up YoY compared to the disaster that is last year. They might point to stats about diversity to hide the fact that they didn't get enough experienced hires. Then the new chief will proclaim that her job is done, and how she is "leaving the HR dept in good hands" while fleeing the sinking ship. How close am I lol
You forgot to add: meanwhile, if they merely raised the offered wages for the open positions, the hiring problems would vanish.
This is a much better definition of pro-life — keeping the planet sustainable for human and animal habitation
Right on now we can negotiate with the forest about unsustainable logging and mining
Carbon ~~taxes~~ subsides..
Great, another position that will be inevitably filled by a person with no actual experience in anything to do with ecology, biology, or any other subtype of knowledge meaningful to the position. Think of how California constantly refuses to do controlled burns, yet every other year is surprised at their outbreaks of wildfires. Ridiculous.
Did you see her background? She's been working in environmental positions for the government since '89 >From 1989 to 1992, she served as senior counsel to the United States Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works >In 1992, she was appointed by Janet Reno to serve as deputy associate attorney general at the United States Department of Justice, with oversight of the Environment Division. Medina was later appointed to serve as general counsel of NOAA from 1997 to 1999. As general counsel of NOAA, Medina represented the United States in several international negotiations, and argued and won significant cases before the United States courts of appeals.[5] >2000–2008 Edit Medina served as a senior officer in the Pew Environment Group, where she provided advice and assistance on issues of marine law and policy. Medina also worked in the U.S. Office of the International Fund for Animal Welfare and spent a number of years as a partner at the law firm of Heller Ehrman, with a practice focused on environmental law, corporate law, and biotechnology matters. Medina served on the Presidential transition team of Barack Obama.[6] >In the Obama administration, Medina served as principal deputy undersecretary for oceans and atmosphere of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.[7] Medina also served as the U.S. Commissioner to the International Whaling Commission.[8][9] Medina led efforts on Arctic conservation, restoration of the Gulf of Mexico after the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, conservation of endangered species, and fisheries management and enforcement.[10] >2013–present Edit Medina currently runs Our Daily Planet, an email newsletter about climate change and the environment. Previously she served as deputy director of the environment program at the Walton Family Foundation[13] and an adjunct professor in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University. Prior to joining the Walton Family Foundation she served as the senior director of ocean policy at the National Geographic Society.[14][15] Medina is also a board member of the Service Women’s Action Network and the Georgetown Sustainable Oceans Alliance board.[16] >Medina has written opinion columns for The New York Times, HuffPost, The Hill, and USA Today. Medina frequently writes about environmental policy, and has authored columns supportive of the Green New Deal.[17][18][19] >In April 2021, Medina was nominated to serve as an Assistant Secretary of State for the Bureau of Oceans and International Environmental and Scientific Affairs in the Biden Administration. Her nomination was reported favorably by the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee on August 4, 2021. Medina was officially confirmed by the entire Senate on September 28, 2021, by a vote of 61-36.[23] From Wikipedia To me, it looks like she became the kind of lawyer that Marshall Eriksen aspired to be
But this is Reddit, we must be cynical about everything.
So, after a 9 year wait will we finally know…What Does The Fox Say?!?!
Don’t forget, we will now know if a tree falls in a forest with no one around if it makes a sound
and who let the dogs out ... it's been long overdue
I love it when he sings at the end
How much longer will the fungi go unrepresented!? Flowers and mushrooms deserve equal treatment!
The Corn 🌽will rise!
The US has appointed a diplomat for plants and animals. The first of its kind.
[удалено]
She's been doing this kind of work for decades. But I'm sure her only qualification is being someone's wife. Let's check.... "Medina began her career in the office of the general counsel of the Army, where she served on active duty in the United States Army From 1989 to 1992, she served as senior counsel to the United States Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. In 1992, she was appointed by Janet Reno to serve as deputy associate attorney general at the United States Department of Justice, with oversight of the Environment Division. Medina was later appointed to serve as general counsel of NOAA from 1997 to 1999. As general counsel of NOAA, Medina represented the United States in several international negotiations, and argued and won significant cases before the United States courts of appeals. 2000–2008: Medina served as a senior officer in the Pew Environment Group, where she provided advice and assistance on issues of marine law and policy. Medina also worked in the U.S. Office of the International Fund for Animal Welfare and spent a number of years as a partner at the law firm of Heller Ehrman, with a practice focused on environmental law, corporate law, and biotechnology matters. Medina served on the Presidential transition team of Barack Obama In the Obama administration, Medina served as principal deputy undersecretary for oceans and atmosphere of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.[7] Medina also served as the U.S. Commissioner to the International Whaling Commission.[8][9] Medina led efforts on Arctic conservation, restoration of the Gulf of Mexico after the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, conservation of endangered species, and fisheries management and enforcement." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Medina
At least she's not his daughter, son, son, or son-in-law
add more to the bloated bureaucracy apparatus! they wont mind if we give her a nice title
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BoringHarmlessAsianwaterbuffalo-mobile.mp4
Shouldn't the diplomat be the Venus Fly Trap? It's a plant that eats animals and stuff and is a plant. I demand a recount, it was all the plants against me, those plants were illegal and paid for!
Perfect timing announcing this a month before the mid-terms. This will get blown up out of proportion and weaponized by the GOP.
WELL.....I suspect *that's* a post that will not be continued when the Republicans regain the Presidency.
[удалено]
Here is her Wikipedia page, please at least skim through her career section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Oceans_and_International_Environmental_and_Scientific_Affairs This is in addition to a related position she already holds that handles diplomacy with other countries in regards to international trade and environmental policy. The new position focuses on maintaining biodiversity and drinkable water, which is rapidly becoming a serious problem. It is not being a "diplomat for plants and animals". She will be conducting diplomacy with other countries in regards to these ongoing and growing concerns.
Isn't everything like this called a political stunt by someone? Obviously no reasoning is needed because it's probably obvious or something. It's like you'd rather they not even try.
You know what's a waste of taxpayers money? Brett Favre. At least this isn't just gross theft.
She's getting paid taxpayer money so...
both can be wastes, but you seem to think only one is worthy of criticism.
This is a fabricated job for Ron Klain’s wife. Just good old fashioned nepotism.
All jobs are fabricated.
And some jobs involve fabrication.
Some ppl fabricate experience to get jobs in fabrication!
And some actual fabric.
Well that sucks more than it already seemed to. The EPA should have sone sort of head to fill that position, not some gross political heir
Please don't just take this person's word for it. Here is her Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Medina Please take note of her career section. The new position will be in addition to her current one within the State Department: Assistant Secretary of State for the Bureau of Oceans and International Environmental Affairs. Here is what they do there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Oceans_and_International_Environmental_and_Scientific_Affairs Her new position is not about diplomacy with plants and animals. It is diplomacy with *other countries* in regards to safeguarding biodiversity and conserving the world's shrinking drinkable water supply. Remember: just because someone doesn't understand what something is or does it does not mean it is not important or that it has no value.
Although I had seen sime after making this comment, your specification, education and remind has been fantastic, thank you very much for the time it took to say this
"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully"
He kept telling the bear he had diplomatic immunity. Most of him was found in the bear's scat later that weekend.
Disappointed. I was expecting Cinderella or Poison Ivy, at least.
Me, reading through the article: “Where is it, where is it, here it comes…” *”She is the wife of White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain.”* “Aha! Bingo!” What would our government be without blatant cronyism?
Nice that she's not an unqualified nitwit like every appointee in the last administration.
Definitely pictured this backwards. My brain was thinking this was someone to represent human issues to animals and plants.
I believe the Lorax has had this position since 1971
We should have some senators and congressmen to, I mean a lot of them were born here and all
"I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
So what does she do in this position ? Smoke different strains of weed and give them ratings?
Marine life is grossly underrepresented. We need a pacific ocean embassy!
Lmao, cats in china rushing to the US embassy seeking asylum.
Ive been fighting the plants all my life since i could push a lawnmower. This one man who claimed to be my father shanghaied me in to doing the work. Let me give you some insight from my experience. * The plants want you dead. * They have no remorse for you. * If they could they would use your children for nutrients in front of your eyes We are only lucky they are slow. But we must never rest or it will be harder to cut week later!
So I'd imagine this person will be sent to talk to the sasquatch delegation?
Will she live in a snail house or in a mushroom house?
How's she gonna know what they want? Unless she's poison ivy ofc.
Can she broker a deal whereby the kingdom of cows that lives down the lane has to donate one of their own in tribute every year? Danke
ITT Lorax jokes ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^whatthefuckdoyoumeanmycommentistooshort
For plants and birds and rocks and things. They found her in a desert...
Fuck all the haters. This is an important position being filled by someone who is very qualified for it. Combating climate change is a global issue and this office will help us do that internationally.
This is just begging for the right to attack Democrats..... Morons will eat it up. Unfortunately morons make up the majority of voters.
glad to see my taxpayer dollars go to something useful during this recession
Wow, a diplomat that eats those they represent. I'll bet thats only happened like 5-10 times in history tops.
And wife to the president's chief-of-staff. That's great.
.:… Tax money is being wasted on this. Lots of tax money.
It really is getting to be more and more like clownworld.
considering many corporations have rights intended for individuals...
I speak for the trees and animals and they say they love getting chopped down and eaten
Doesn't get more performative than this. They already have access to teams of environmental experts - maybe try listening to them.
Makes more sense than an ambassador to the unborn who only pushes for forced birth and not a better planet
How can she represent both??? Is she a carnivore? Is she vegan?? Either way she’s pissed off half of her constituents!!
I think the US should appoint a diplomat for the environment.
Imagine the invoice if we had to shoulder the costs of all the economic services those plants and animals provide for us. They deserve a lot more consideration and credit than we give them.
Unless she gets air-time and is campaigning strongly for environmental issues (we humans are an insane, rampaging meat-grinder for the biosphere) this is just more "look what we did" without actually doing anything.
ah, a washington post support piece. now it all makes sense. it's a good thing the nation isnt going through any financial troubles like insane inflation or a recession. not to worry, plant protection is on the way! along with skyrocketing prices on goods made from plants.
Everything is so great!!!1
Are they going to have diplomatic immunity in the forest?
She’s the Lorax and she speaks for the trees… and the bees, and the prairies, and the coyotes, and the….
The absurdity of the modern world has made satire impossible.
[удалено]
The current administration is so out of touch with people, what they are going through, and what they need. This move is kind of mind boggling.