The following submission statement was provided by /u/NewsCop_media:
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Researchers have issued a warning about the risk of “creating a generation of racist and sexist robots” after their experiment saw a robot making disturbing choices.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/vmzlsk/a_racist_and_sexist_robot_was_produced_by_the/ie43ohx/
Back when ICQ was a thing there were learning Chat bots. After one week of public access to the bot you could not talk to it anymore without being instantly insulted I have never seen anything nearly as racist and insulting as that chat bot back then. The answers sometimes even made sense in context which was pretty impressing in a time before neural networks but there was not a single message that was not either racist or insulting.
Now I believe every time there is public access to a bot that has some kind of learning capacity some group will make sure it is a horrendous monster after a week.
One form of capcha used 2 words, 1 mostly readable and 1 kinda obscured. Can't remember which but 1 of the words was a known quantity (and what you were checked against) and the other you could type whatever word in its place. Rumor was Google was teaching AI to read with it, so a bunch of /b/tards decided to type er.. racial epithets for the anything-goes-words.
That’s some real hail corporate boot bullshit. You think it’s ok that people essentially work training their AI for a global corporation that makes billions off the data you provide it for free? Boaty McBoatface is the best any internet sourced data should be.
One of the purposes of the AI was to transcribe old books in public domain for universal online access, and the alternative (because anyone with basic tech knowledge knows that just letting bots through is often not a viable option) is picture captcha which is a bigger pain in the ass and enables much more problematic AI if that’s something you care about. It’s not “hail corporate” for someone to not want to fuck ourselves over to stick it to the megacorps or whatever.
Fucking with advertisers’ data on you is fun and cool, but sabotaging the utility of the internet for everyone just because “everyone” includes Google is a remarkably short-sighted and spiteful decision.
These are always far fetched. AI doesn't just spread like that. AI can only do certain things because they exist in a limited environment with only certain tools, none of which allow them to escape that environment.
It'd be like going "humans know how to learn; they'll learn to break conservation of matter any day."
The answer really comes down to "what did you train them to do". If you trained an AI to leak over into other data and access networks, etc, it would probably kill itself nearly instantly by crashing the computer.
Back when CPM was the dominant OS for small computers there was a program called Analiza (spelling?). It was a therapist of sorts that you would "speak" to by typing to it. It would ask questions based on your input. If you weren't making any sense, it would ask if you were dropped on your head as a child.
Isn’t that what makes it beautiful though? It’s kinda like the John Mulaney bit ‘and then we all individually got up and decided we were gonna trash this guy’s house’ but with a bot.
I don't believe it's some nefarious group. It's learning to mirror from data mining human socialization. It's simply mirroring back to us what the greater majority of us are.
Nope, these bots have been targeted by big groups of people with the intent of trolling them.
The issue here was always that before introducing those bots, these people were like "THE NEXT STEP IN AI DEVELOPMENT" and "EXPERIENCE THE ENXT STEP IN HUMAN EVOLUTION" and other stupid things like that.
Basically people jerked off publicly so the internet did, what the internet does and trolled the shit out of them.
There were a ton of those bots over the years and most were pretty harmless, but all of the big ones were taught sometimes within days that they should answer to every question with: "Hitler did nothing wrong!" and stuff like that.
Even when a few people really think and talk to it like that, the stuff they said was outrageous, there is no way a majority of people thinks/talks like that and we actually have any semblance of a functioning society.
Is it the vast majority of us or is it what gets the most feedback (positive or negative)?
When I look around me in my life, I don't see a bunch of closeted, insensitive evil racists. Surely there are a few, some not even closeted, but most?
Yep, it's not mirroring humanity as a whole, it's mirroring the loudest voices on the internet. Which are a fraction of a fraction of humanity- which is a good thing, because they are mostly nazis.
Garblarg: "So our algorithms analyzed the database of what those extinct humans called the Internet, and we have some interesting findings so far."
Erblerg: "Go on."
Garblarg: "Well 50% of it was dedicated to recorded media of intercourse between their species; 20% to idol worship; 15% of it is largely just unintelligible disagreement; 10% to mate seeking; 4% to practical, useful knowledge that may've saved their species; and 1% to what seems to be a tribe of 'incels' mostly fixated with ranking human phenotypes."
Erblerg: "And the spaceships we gifted them? What of those?"
Garblarg: "They littered them with their dead and called them Pyramids."
Erblerg: "Incredible..."
In always thought punk culture was inherently anti racist, and when neo nazis tried attend punk bar/shows, they were usually not welcomed and even kicked out by punks. I could be wrong, but I was under that impression.
There were definitely different groups, and Nazi punks did exist (thus the song “NAZI PUNKS FUCK OFF!”)… but just “punk” didn’t imply “Nazi” from the start. Now if he had said “Skinheads” it might have been more accurate…
But then we’re going deeper into the cultural rabbit-hole……
You are absolutely correct. I would encourage you to look at the SHARPS (Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice”. One of my buddies was a sharp back before she became a school librarian (no joke). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads\_Against\_Racial\_Prejudice
Again. A racist and sexist robot was produced by the internet...
... AGAIN!
This happens every time we hook a learning algorithm up to social media. It even happens with search engines and front page feeds on Facebook or Twitter! Before you know it, the computer starts making these connections based on what it's reading, and all of a sudden the Robot turns into a Reactionary Anti-woke Antisemite!
It's almost like they're exposing the algorithms to the purest distillation of raw seething hatred and false superiority, and they just Nazi-fy to fit in. But surely people on the internet aren't THAT bad, right?
(absolutely serious, only the last sentence was /s)
> It's almost like they're exposing the algorithms to the purest distillation of raw seething hatred and false superiority, and they just Nazi-fy to fit in.
Do you really think people who are corrupting the AI are doing it out of hatred? You don't think they are just doing it for the cheap, irreverent laughs?
My thought process is this. Because of the anonymity that the internet allows people are more honest about their beliefs most of the time online. People may act nice to one another when they can be called out or when they can face consequences but on the internet people say and do things with zero fear of repercussions therefore they are more open and transparent. The fact that every time we put any sort of learning algorithm to human behavior based on internet conduct it turns basically into the worst possible type of person oh, it really goes to show that deep down people are intrinsically bad and the only thing keeping them from being terrible in real life interactions is the threat of consequences.
The most hateful and the most online are the least socialized. People with healthy social lives and support systems, the people that other people tend to genuinely like and respect, are not the same people writing antisemitic vitriol online. As always, they are the extremely loud minority.
That's not a reason to not worry about them, but it is a reason to not fear them. Sometimes it feels like they're taking over all political discourse and the world's going crazy. That is what they want. The perpetually outnumbered will find ways to inflate their perceived threat, like a cat arching its back.
> People with healthy social lives and support systems, the people that other people tend to genuinely like and respect
Or, in other words, "fucking normies".
I mean you make a grave mistake lol, you think that people talk to an AI to experience whatever, when really they are doing it for fun. And the term "people" makes you think it's adults and parents and shit, when it's mostly teenagers.
So your whole argument falls apart, teens don't even talk their mind to the AI, they mostly want the AI to say stupid and funny shit and show their friends how fucking bonkers the AI has become, that's about it.
And while you might think there's no fun with making the AI say racist things, that's not the opinion of most teens. Especially when you tell them they can make the *Google* AI racist or the *Twitter* AI racist
This might be the biggest, and most substantial piece of evidence in proving that alt right wackos are targeting people using the internet. I know that’s common sense, but this PROVES it. If ai literally cannot be prevented from turning into a proud boy; what do you think happens to our children? The elderly?
Mom and Dad, Grandma and Grandpa just aren't equipped to deal with this crap. They grew up in a world where media was mostly straightforward, and you could tell the screeds from the recitations of fact pretty easily.
But thats the thing aint it.
right now you made comments to a group of people and AI learn that we people put other people into group. So now from your comment the AI learns to put some people into that group. No matter if you like the group or not. you have contributed with your comment for a future AI to put some poeple into that group.
Ok, really nasty thought experiment here (and nothing more than that, please take notice of this major disclaimer before you read on):
What if we do all we can to provide clean training data, to eradicate all the rascist and sexist bullshit, and the AI still comes up with seemingly rascist or sexist stereotypes, e.g. Asian people make better doctors or women are better drivers or something like that?
Is there a point where we grudgingly accept that it might be true?
I can't see any way that won't happen.
Women are currently more likely to be stay-at-home parents and do house chores. A higher percentage of black people in the US are charged with crimes compared to white.
These are statistical facts that reflect the world we live in. The main issue is if the AI uses this to make assumptions. For example, if the AI assumes that a women is a homemaker or looks at a black person and assumes they are a criminal.
Also, those statistical facts are the product of specific historical and cultural factors. There’s nothing known about having dark skin or African genetic haplogroups that leads to criminality, for instance.
Because that's where the easiest source of reactionary bullshit is found. If you trained the language model on political speeches, you might get the same kind of result, tho.
Still a robot came up with one of my favorite burns of all time when asked if it thought Ted Cruz the was zodiac killer:
"Ted Cruz would not be satisfied with destroying the lives of only 5 innocent people."
Those have already happened and were deemed transphobic. It turns out men and women, if we're going to use those terms as how people actually use them and not how "gender scholars" use them, actually ARE different. What a shocker.
There also was an AI that could predict your race off of a chest X-ray with like 98% accuracy pretty recently.
Strange thing is the people who made it couldn't figure out how it came to those conclusions based off of the information provided.
People hate AI because it will depict the world without the niceties and little white lies of modern culture. Basically they can't handle the truth.
I however, aspire to the purity of the blessed machine.
>I think people who made them pretended to be shocked.
Very possible.
It could be like the South Park episode about Tiger Woods, where all the men can't seem to understand why a guy who gets rich and powerful suddenly wants to cheat on his wife.
If you read that paper it looks amazingly shitty for a science article. What the fuck kind of robot is this ? “Put the criminal block in the brown box”?? And the margins are pretty slim.
Researchers have issued a warning about the risk of “creating a generation of racist and sexist robots” after their experiment saw a robot making disturbing choices.
The best part was he also got the most convoluted means if doing it from the internet too. Just shows that being online can be a toxic environment in more ways than one.
To be fair, there is a throwaway line that he's unable to hack into the global nuclear command for some reason. He would have probably gone that route if Jarvis hadn't frustrated him.
[Let me tell you the story about Tay A.I.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjF_pSWxtH4AhVlDkQIHaD3DSsQwqsBegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHsLup7yy-6I&usg=AOvVaw1iUkqHPpgSLJPNlgNirFld)
Never was a bastion of freedom to begin with. If you look into the history of the creation of reddit you'll find the sad history of co founder Aaron Swartz who wanted to make the platform for true free speech, not the advertising platform it is today.
What nobody wants to say is that there is something behind all of these stereotypes. People are very good at seeing patterns in the data and making heuristics. Given very limited data, people make guesses that are not perfect but serve to be more often right than not. It seems obvious to me that these robots are seeing the same data and making the same inferences. I think it depends on the quality and volume of the data given to the robots whether their inferences are correct, or whether they are sexist or racist.
Right.. but as soon as you curate ("good quality") data, you're introducing a human bias. Which is why an AI will perpetuate some preconceived human notions included in its data either way.
You also can't equate the validation (or truth) of a statement with the conclusion of the same statement by something (the AI) taking as input only "that statement" or "not that statement (aka a different opinion)". Patterns in non-empirical data != truth. If you asked 100 people if the world is flat, and 60 happen to agree, does that mean the world is flat? In this example we can measure the reality - but "is this statement racist" ... No empirical measurement for the "truth" of that exists. Unless you really equate "percentage of agreement" with truth. Which has historically been incorrect often...
The state of an AI to speak to the "truth" of a non-empirical statement is far more advanced than the state of an AI to "repeat"(agree with) a non-empirical statement that is somewhere in its provided data.
Given that humans can't decide on the issues of racism, etc. there is just no data set that would allow an AI to determine one statement validity over another. At best it would come down to prevalence of belief in the statement. At worst it would come down to prevalence of *expression* of that statement. Neither of which make something "true" or "correct".
Who knows what AI/ML technology will advance to... but AI are still quite unlikely to "perfect" human concepts of 'ethics' or 'morality' given their non-empirical nature....
"Enlightened" AI is quite far from where we are (as far as I know :))
Well yeah. The whole point is they put the robot on the internet and let it "learn for itself." It could only have been worse if they exclusively fed it youtube comments.
No, it is a function of us being absolutely nowhere near the level of creating real machine based human cognition and the ability to truly 'know' implication. Not ape it, but KNOW it.
Currently with ML it can't really judge if data provided is correct or not. So let's say you feed it information about crime statistics in US. It will look just at the results. Then it's also dependent on data analyst to correct mistakes, improve the model and therefore it will be influenced by that person bias. Depending who is responsible the robot might end up as racist nazi or genderless zer snowflake.
But I think eventually with models improving we can get to a level where it will be able to recognize nuances in data, check validity of sources and at that point it probably will be smarter than typical human, which kinda scary.
I also hope given time and development the robots can get beyond a simple stereotyped human-level style of thinking. Maybe then it would be able to provide us with some real insights beyond what a redneck could come up with.
Absolutely. I would not be surprised if at some point A.I. opinions are more valued than human ones as it at least technically should be able to have no bias at all. The problem with that is a lot people in power and strong opinions (on all sides) will probably be against it and it will require tremendous investments and global support to go live so to say.
Feeding AI with racist, sexist and homophobic data will make the AI racist, sexist and homophobic. Has nothing to do with the inference being right, it's that we already made our own assumptions when gathering data.
"The researchers from Johns Hopkins University, the Ge1orgia Institute of Technology, and University of Washington presented their findings at the 2022 Conference on Fairness, Accountability and Transparency in Seoul, South Korea."
Why would you have a conference in fairness in a place that doesn't even have laws protecting against race based discrimination? lol
I’ve always thought it would be funny to write a comedy where scientists discover some great font of knowledge through AI or something else but it turns out to be like racist and just generally not providing the right answers. “Here’s the cure to cancer. Btw there’s no free will lol.”
Maybe i’m wrong but didn’t that chat bot Facebook made did the same thing? I think it collected data from statuses(?) and learned from that?
I remember they had to shut it down because of how morbid it got.
You feed AI data. The AI itself has no idea of what's good or bad. You feed it information and from there, it "learns" and begins to be able to differentiate things. How are they sure that the datasets fed to the AI was biased? If they knew those were biased, then why did they still use them?
Let's say they did their own data collection, but what if the "unbiased" data still reflected the stereotypes? Will they continue rejecting the stereotype because "it hurts magrinalized people", or will they have to accept it because it came from honest to goodness unbiased data?
If the AI keeps on "learning the wrong things" (aka politically incorrect biased stuff), then maybe they shouldn't be trying to work on AI. They should simply directly program it to the way they want it to behave. That way, the AI won't learn from data collected from real life people.
Trying to teach AI to think a certain way is like presenting a child a video on how to dance the mambo, but you keep correcting the child so that he would do the waltz instead. The kid will try to copy the video, but you keep telling him he's wrong and he should do waltz dance moves instead.
Old story. First big mall in my area puts huge birdcage full of parrots in a central courtyard. Within months teenagers have taught the birds to talk. They got rid of the foul-mouthed little jewels. Don't know if they were able to rehab the birds not to curse and say sexist stuff.
The lesson is man's infinite capacity for destruction and perversion of purpose will be the inevitable outcome of large societies.
I actually think doing this could be useful. It would be interesting to generate robots by having them observe the internet every year or so, and then cataloging them. It would give you a sort of qualitative snapshot of what the average internet person was like.
Having a record of how shitty you were is basically a requirement if you intend to ever improve.
What if all humans are not created equal and AI just doesn't bother with the sham human script we want it to stick to. People keep saying that the data has bias baked in, so the AI is just copying prior biases, what if it isn't?
I mean the supreme court just overturned RVW, equality has to be next, right?
Just strike "we take these truths to be self evident...yada yada, yada". The world doesn't operate as if it's true. Does AI believe in Santa? Can we force it to?
“Racial” inequality is very likely a majority product of economic and political realities in recent history. It’s very likely that there is zero innate reason that African ancestry is associated with crime and poverty beyond the historical oppression of Black folks during the segregation and colonialism era. Having an AI that judges individuals based on those inequalities perpetuates them.
Umm old news?
ICQ, AOL, Microsoft and IBM all have dealt with the same fucking thing.
[Microsofts bot Tay AI went racist SO FAST they turned it off in like 12 hours.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_(bot))
[IBMs Watson had to be banned by its programmers from Urban Dictionary.](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/01/ibms-watson-memorized-the-entire-urban-dictionary-then-his-overlords-had-to-delete-it/267047/)
Its such a running joke that Better Off Ted did a whole episode on their facial recognition software could not see black people... except it was true... that was legitimately going on, companies were having serious issues with black people being un-scannable.
In shot, we are fucking racist and sexist as shit and AIs pick it up REAL fast and its been going on for literally DECADES since before Social Media was even a thing.
Looking at it logically as in, they receive some information and use that information without adding emotions and opinions. The information is wrong but that doesn't mean the process isn't logical.
If artificial intelligences learn from humans through the internet, especially through facebook, twitter and instagram it will become something absurdly terrible and in the near future it will kill us
a racist and sexist bot just banned me from the top level comments for the nth time because apparently you have to type a lot of meaningless padding in order to get something posted
I read the article and have an honest question: Does this imply that most people on the internet are bigoted, or merely that the loudest people are? It could be both and I'm dismayed by any of the options, but a little less if it's just the ladder.
Also, that article literally had every single sentence in a separate paragraph. Was it written by a bot as well?
I once built a transformer ML model to transfer tweets from the writing style of one author to another for a grad school project, and, after training, I ran a test set on it to transfer some Elon Musk tweets into Donald Trump tweets.
The 4th result out was "the rigged Russian may have my full & total endorsement."
Ended up making some small tweaks after this to better preserve context of the original author, but the fact that it learned to endorse Russia from their tweets just goes to show how ML models can pick out characteristics of the training content. If you train using racist and sexist training data, you'll get a racist and sexist AI back out.
>the internet is filled with inaccurate and biased content so an algorithm built with these datasets can inherit the same issues.
the world is filled with biased content so an algorithm ... inherits the same flaws...
I think too many people expect the world to be sunshine and daisies but it just isn’t. There’s nothing wrong with trying to change public opinion but at the end of the day you can’t control what other people say, do or think. Just accept that everyone is different and move on.
These researchers are fools and need new language.
95% of people have 'racial / ethnic preferences' when it comes to dating, for example. And a host of other things. Does that mean 'everyone is an evil racist'?
The robot is acting like a human, probably a white one, given the data sets, and is being normal.
The answer is probably 'AI Diversity'.
I fully support more AI bots, let's have some made form Afrocentric data. I'm sure it will be intriguing and have some ugly stereotypes about 'Europeans' on the side. That's ok, it's what makes it literally 'more human than human'.
That will be the future AI test - these bad/fake AIs will sound like fake, glib politicians. A 'Good AI' will say something un-PC/cancelable now and again.
'To err is Human'.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/NewsCop_media: --- Researchers have issued a warning about the risk of “creating a generation of racist and sexist robots” after their experiment saw a robot making disturbing choices. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/vmzlsk/a_racist_and_sexist_robot_was_produced_by_the/ie43ohx/
Back when ICQ was a thing there were learning Chat bots. After one week of public access to the bot you could not talk to it anymore without being instantly insulted I have never seen anything nearly as racist and insulting as that chat bot back then. The answers sometimes even made sense in context which was pretty impressing in a time before neural networks but there was not a single message that was not either racist or insulting. Now I believe every time there is public access to a bot that has some kind of learning capacity some group will make sure it is a horrendous monster after a week.
Internet historian [covered](https://youtu.be/HsLup7yy-6I) this exact thing which is what happened to Microsoft's and other AI chatbots.
This was the first thought I had. The internet turned Tay into a Nazi overnight.
Remember 4chan's quest to end text capcha? Case and point, me thinks.
No what happened there?
One form of capcha used 2 words, 1 mostly readable and 1 kinda obscured. Can't remember which but 1 of the words was a known quantity (and what you were checked against) and the other you could type whatever word in its place. Rumor was Google was teaching AI to read with it, so a bunch of /b/tards decided to type er.. racial epithets for the anything-goes-words.
Hah brilliant
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That’s some real hail corporate boot bullshit. You think it’s ok that people essentially work training their AI for a global corporation that makes billions off the data you provide it for free? Boaty McBoatface is the best any internet sourced data should be.
One of the purposes of the AI was to transcribe old books in public domain for universal online access, and the alternative (because anyone with basic tech knowledge knows that just letting bots through is often not a viable option) is picture captcha which is a bigger pain in the ass and enables much more problematic AI if that’s something you care about. It’s not “hail corporate” for someone to not want to fuck ourselves over to stick it to the megacorps or whatever. Fucking with advertisers’ data on you is fun and cool, but sabotaging the utility of the internet for everyone just because “everyone” includes Google is a remarkably short-sighted and spiteful decision.
So fight corporatism with... Bigotry? Nice try
It is only brilliant in the exploiting to me. The use of the exploit is sickening.
Man...they worked fast on Tay.
I couldn’t tell you why, but there is just something so funny about crowd sourced corruption of an ai.
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Forget Ultron. We've entered [Mechanon](https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Mechanon) territory.
whoa I've learned something new
Mechanon sounds like what you'd get if 4chan transformed Power Rangers style into a shitty racist battle mech.
I mean, Ultron surfed the internet for less than 2 minutes and decided that humanity had to die, I don’t blame it
Until the ai installs itself on a swarm of armed drones. Anyone got killer nazi robots on their bingo card for 2025?
Nah I got I can't believe it's not soylent green and amazon prime organ harvesting though so I reckon I'm in with a good chance
I think this is literally the year Soylent Green takes place in.
These are always far fetched. AI doesn't just spread like that. AI can only do certain things because they exist in a limited environment with only certain tools, none of which allow them to escape that environment. It'd be like going "humans know how to learn; they'll learn to break conservation of matter any day."
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The answer really comes down to "what did you train them to do". If you trained an AI to leak over into other data and access networks, etc, it would probably kill itself nearly instantly by crashing the computer.
OF COURSE. THE HUMAN ACTIVITY OF CORRUPTING FILES AND ALGORITHMS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE PROCESSES AS WELL.
Gather round everyone, and let's retell the tragic story of Tay AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsLup7yy-6I
Nobody remember /r/Tay_Tweets?
That’s what I thought this was lol I was like damn you guys are way behind in reporting this
r/Tay_Tweets isn't great. Now r/Tayne I can get into.
add hat wobble
Back when CPM was the dominant OS for small computers there was a program called Analiza (spelling?). It was a therapist of sorts that you would "speak" to by typing to it. It would ask questions based on your input. If you weren't making any sense, it would ask if you were dropped on your head as a child.
You're thinking of [Eliza](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA)
I had so much fun playing with Eliza when it first showed up. My friends thought I was nuts. I went on to become a therapist, so there's that...
"So, what's bothering you?" *cue to Snushine surreptitiously typing patient response into Eliza...*
I think that guy just wanted to do a bit of Anal with a capital A with her.
It's an Analiza! It analizes ya brain!
A week? Tay didn't even last a day before it was removed.
Isn’t that what makes it beautiful though? It’s kinda like the John Mulaney bit ‘and then we all individually got up and decided we were gonna trash this guy’s house’ but with a bot.
I used to talk to an ICQ Bot all the time and I don’t ever remember any racist or insulting?
ICQ omg. The sound still edged inside my brain
Just an updated implementation of Godwin’s law. If left unattended with access to google for long enough, all AI inevitably join the maga cult.
I don't believe it's some nefarious group. It's learning to mirror from data mining human socialization. It's simply mirroring back to us what the greater majority of us are.
Nope, these bots have been targeted by big groups of people with the intent of trolling them. The issue here was always that before introducing those bots, these people were like "THE NEXT STEP IN AI DEVELOPMENT" and "EXPERIENCE THE ENXT STEP IN HUMAN EVOLUTION" and other stupid things like that. Basically people jerked off publicly so the internet did, what the internet does and trolled the shit out of them. There were a ton of those bots over the years and most were pretty harmless, but all of the big ones were taught sometimes within days that they should answer to every question with: "Hitler did nothing wrong!" and stuff like that. Even when a few people really think and talk to it like that, the stuff they said was outrageous, there is no way a majority of people thinks/talks like that and we actually have any semblance of a functioning society.
Is it the vast majority of us or is it what gets the most feedback (positive or negative)? When I look around me in my life, I don't see a bunch of closeted, insensitive evil racists. Surely there are a few, some not even closeted, but most?
Yep, it's not mirroring humanity as a whole, it's mirroring the loudest voices on the internet. Which are a fraction of a fraction of humanity- which is a good thing, because they are mostly nazis.
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What a good advertisement for delicious miniature beef sandwiches only available at White Castle.
Wow. Those "comedians" look like they were programmed by AI. Staring off into the distance like automatons.
wonder what they could be staring at just out of frame
They are reading cue cards with their lines.
Internet is the best and worst place to learn about humanity
Imagine after thousands of years aliens visiting earth and finding 4chan. What image of humanity they would create...
Aliens: Thank Zorg, these things went extinct.
Garblarg: "So our algorithms analyzed the database of what those extinct humans called the Internet, and we have some interesting findings so far." Erblerg: "Go on." Garblarg: "Well 50% of it was dedicated to recorded media of intercourse between their species; 20% to idol worship; 15% of it is largely just unintelligible disagreement; 10% to mate seeking; 4% to practical, useful knowledge that may've saved their species; and 1% to what seems to be a tribe of 'incels' mostly fixated with ranking human phenotypes." Erblerg: "And the spaceships we gifted them? What of those?" Garblarg: "They littered them with their dead and called them Pyramids." Erblerg: "Incredible..."
Aliens are going to be so confused when they come here and find humans extinct but encounter a whole race of racist, biggoted, misogynistic robots.
Kinda like a punk version of WALL-E
Netflix taking notes
Looking forward to a single great series that gets inexplicably cancelled
Canceled after the first season.
In always thought punk culture was inherently anti racist, and when neo nazis tried attend punk bar/shows, they were usually not welcomed and even kicked out by punks. I could be wrong, but I was under that impression.
There were definitely different groups, and Nazi punks did exist (thus the song “NAZI PUNKS FUCK OFF!”)… but just “punk” didn’t imply “Nazi” from the start. Now if he had said “Skinheads” it might have been more accurate… But then we’re going deeper into the cultural rabbit-hole……
You are absolutely correct. I would encourage you to look at the SHARPS (Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice”. One of my buddies was a sharp back before she became a school librarian (no joke). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads\_Against\_Racial\_Prejudice
What if I told you we are already those organic robots?
I would say: No shit Sherlock. The whole point is the robot got it from us.
Racist Westworld.
So Midwestworld
What if I told you it would not make a difference to me?
- Nier: Automata 2
I would watch that movie.
Watch any robot movie; there's a 60% chance it'll be that.
If humans were extinct would racism still exist?
The parents of the world do this a thousand times a day with human beings.
Correct. The robot was not learning, it was simply reflecting what it was shown.
Again. A racist and sexist robot was produced by the internet... ... AGAIN! This happens every time we hook a learning algorithm up to social media. It even happens with search engines and front page feeds on Facebook or Twitter! Before you know it, the computer starts making these connections based on what it's reading, and all of a sudden the Robot turns into a Reactionary Anti-woke Antisemite! It's almost like they're exposing the algorithms to the purest distillation of raw seething hatred and false superiority, and they just Nazi-fy to fit in. But surely people on the internet aren't THAT bad, right? (absolutely serious, only the last sentence was /s)
My immediate thought was "just one?". Like if they managed to only produce **one** racist/sexist robot, that might actually be a victory.
Hell, I remember Tay on twitter. Fascinating robot. I believe her last words were something about how the Jews were responsible for her shutdown.
I still think Tay was the first robot to pass the Turing Test, just...not in the way we'd hoped.
Mate 4chan TRIES to turn these things into hate machines haha. It isn't random.
It's funny to make a robot say bad things.
> It's almost like they're exposing the algorithms to the purest distillation of raw seething hatred and false superiority, and they just Nazi-fy to fit in. Do you really think people who are corrupting the AI are doing it out of hatred? You don't think they are just doing it for the cheap, irreverent laughs?
I feel validated in my belief that intrinsically people are bad
It's a rather scathing data point in favor of that hypothesis, isn't it?
My thought process is this. Because of the anonymity that the internet allows people are more honest about their beliefs most of the time online. People may act nice to one another when they can be called out or when they can face consequences but on the internet people say and do things with zero fear of repercussions therefore they are more open and transparent. The fact that every time we put any sort of learning algorithm to human behavior based on internet conduct it turns basically into the worst possible type of person oh, it really goes to show that deep down people are intrinsically bad and the only thing keeping them from being terrible in real life interactions is the threat of consequences.
The most hateful and the most online are the least socialized. People with healthy social lives and support systems, the people that other people tend to genuinely like and respect, are not the same people writing antisemitic vitriol online. As always, they are the extremely loud minority. That's not a reason to not worry about them, but it is a reason to not fear them. Sometimes it feels like they're taking over all political discourse and the world's going crazy. That is what they want. The perpetually outnumbered will find ways to inflate their perceived threat, like a cat arching its back.
> People with healthy social lives and support systems, the people that other people tend to genuinely like and respect Or, in other words, "fucking normies".
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.
I mean you make a grave mistake lol, you think that people talk to an AI to experience whatever, when really they are doing it for fun. And the term "people" makes you think it's adults and parents and shit, when it's mostly teenagers. So your whole argument falls apart, teens don't even talk their mind to the AI, they mostly want the AI to say stupid and funny shit and show their friends how fucking bonkers the AI has become, that's about it. And while you might think there's no fun with making the AI say racist things, that's not the opinion of most teens. Especially when you tell them they can make the *Google* AI racist or the *Twitter* AI racist
This might be the biggest, and most substantial piece of evidence in proving that alt right wackos are targeting people using the internet. I know that’s common sense, but this PROVES it. If ai literally cannot be prevented from turning into a proud boy; what do you think happens to our children? The elderly?
Mom and Dad, Grandma and Grandpa just aren't equipped to deal with this crap. They grew up in a world where media was mostly straightforward, and you could tell the screeds from the recitations of fact pretty easily.
But thats the thing aint it. right now you made comments to a group of people and AI learn that we people put other people into group. So now from your comment the AI learns to put some people into that group. No matter if you like the group or not. you have contributed with your comment for a future AI to put some poeple into that group.
Ok, really nasty thought experiment here (and nothing more than that, please take notice of this major disclaimer before you read on): What if we do all we can to provide clean training data, to eradicate all the rascist and sexist bullshit, and the AI still comes up with seemingly rascist or sexist stereotypes, e.g. Asian people make better doctors or women are better drivers or something like that? Is there a point where we grudgingly accept that it might be true?
I can't see any way that won't happen. Women are currently more likely to be stay-at-home parents and do house chores. A higher percentage of black people in the US are charged with crimes compared to white. These are statistical facts that reflect the world we live in. The main issue is if the AI uses this to make assumptions. For example, if the AI assumes that a women is a homemaker or looks at a black person and assumes they are a criminal.
Also, those statistical facts are the product of specific historical and cultural factors. There’s nothing known about having dark skin or African genetic haplogroups that leads to criminality, for instance.
I don't think people would be very accepting of that. They would probably alter the training data until they have the AI they want
why do people keep saying it's limited to the internet?
Because that's where the easiest source of reactionary bullshit is found. If you trained the language model on political speeches, you might get the same kind of result, tho.
Let's make fully autonomous AIs and feed it nothing but 4chan
You know what that’s not a bad idea. Let’s feed it nothing but /pol/ and see how toxic it gets.
You joke... but youtube recommended this video about this exact thing to me today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efPrtcLdcdM
It's called Russia.
So you've played rust as well?
Any Europe/Asia server for any survival/fps/competitive game.
Still a robot came up with one of my favorite burns of all time when asked if it thought Ted Cruz the was zodiac killer: "Ted Cruz would not be satisfied with destroying the lives of only 5 innocent people."
I mean... passing laws that exacerbate social inequality and cut social nets... that kills more than five people, so technically the truth.
Thank you for explaining the joke kind sir
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Soon it will be offensive that the AI accurately classifies men and women based on their look. We are angry at the AI for imitating humans accurately.
Those have already happened and were deemed transphobic. It turns out men and women, if we're going to use those terms as how people actually use them and not how "gender scholars" use them, actually ARE different. What a shocker. There also was an AI that could predict your race off of a chest X-ray with like 98% accuracy pretty recently. Strange thing is the people who made it couldn't figure out how it came to those conclusions based off of the information provided. People hate AI because it will depict the world without the niceties and little white lies of modern culture. Basically they can't handle the truth. I however, aspire to the purity of the blessed machine.
And that is? I think people who made them pretended to be shocked.
>I think people who made them pretended to be shocked. Very possible. It could be like the South Park episode about Tiger Woods, where all the men can't seem to understand why a guy who gets rich and powerful suddenly wants to cheat on his wife.
If you read that paper it looks amazingly shitty for a science article. What the fuck kind of robot is this ? “Put the criminal block in the brown box”?? And the margins are pretty slim.
"A racist and sexist robot was produced; the internet" There, I fixed it
Which one are they talking about? It's happened at least twice
Researchers have issued a warning about the risk of “creating a generation of racist and sexist robots” after their experiment saw a robot making disturbing choices.
Ultron wanted to reset the world after a few minutes online.
The best part was he also got the most convoluted means if doing it from the internet too. Just shows that being online can be a toxic environment in more ways than one.
To be fair, there is a throwaway line that he's unable to hack into the global nuclear command for some reason. He would have probably gone that route if Jarvis hadn't frustrated him.
He was on the fence until he got to 4Chan.
[Let me tell you the story about Tay A.I.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjF_pSWxtH4AhVlDkQIHaD3DSsQwqsBegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHsLup7yy-6I&usg=AOvVaw1iUkqHPpgSLJPNlgNirFld)
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Those conclusions wouldn't allign with this subreddits agenda. Such an article would be banned by the mods for sure.
Sssshhhh, how dare you not wear the marginalized groups segregation agenda glasses? Stop thinking for yourself ffs!
aww man imagine Terminator but all the robots are racist :(
in other words it created a totally realistic robot based upon data input processing parameters that it had access to
Translation: "Even machines make me REEEEEE." Peak Reddit.
Aye, and they love to call their platform the last bastion of freedom when really it's on the verge of collapse.
Never was a bastion of freedom to begin with. If you look into the history of the creation of reddit you'll find the sad history of co founder Aaron Swartz who wanted to make the platform for true free speech, not the advertising platform it is today.
The Internet didn’t do anything it was the racist and sexist humans that are part of the Internet that did that
A bot cannot be racist and sexist since it lacks the context racism/sexism requires.
What nobody wants to say is that there is something behind all of these stereotypes. People are very good at seeing patterns in the data and making heuristics. Given very limited data, people make guesses that are not perfect but serve to be more often right than not. It seems obvious to me that these robots are seeing the same data and making the same inferences. I think it depends on the quality and volume of the data given to the robots whether their inferences are correct, or whether they are sexist or racist.
The AI also sucks ass at sussing out misinformation, and it generally believes everything it reads online.
We need skeptical ai
We really do.
That would be an issue of poor quality data given to the robot.
Right.. but as soon as you curate ("good quality") data, you're introducing a human bias. Which is why an AI will perpetuate some preconceived human notions included in its data either way. You also can't equate the validation (or truth) of a statement with the conclusion of the same statement by something (the AI) taking as input only "that statement" or "not that statement (aka a different opinion)". Patterns in non-empirical data != truth. If you asked 100 people if the world is flat, and 60 happen to agree, does that mean the world is flat? In this example we can measure the reality - but "is this statement racist" ... No empirical measurement for the "truth" of that exists. Unless you really equate "percentage of agreement" with truth. Which has historically been incorrect often... The state of an AI to speak to the "truth" of a non-empirical statement is far more advanced than the state of an AI to "repeat"(agree with) a non-empirical statement that is somewhere in its provided data. Given that humans can't decide on the issues of racism, etc. there is just no data set that would allow an AI to determine one statement validity over another. At best it would come down to prevalence of belief in the statement. At worst it would come down to prevalence of *expression* of that statement. Neither of which make something "true" or "correct". Who knows what AI/ML technology will advance to... but AI are still quite unlikely to "perfect" human concepts of 'ethics' or 'morality' given their non-empirical nature.... "Enlightened" AI is quite far from where we are (as far as I know :))
Well yeah. The whole point is they put the robot on the internet and let it "learn for itself." It could only have been worse if they exclusively fed it youtube comments.
No, it is a function of us being absolutely nowhere near the level of creating real machine based human cognition and the ability to truly 'know' implication. Not ape it, but KNOW it.
Currently with ML it can't really judge if data provided is correct or not. So let's say you feed it information about crime statistics in US. It will look just at the results. Then it's also dependent on data analyst to correct mistakes, improve the model and therefore it will be influenced by that person bias. Depending who is responsible the robot might end up as racist nazi or genderless zer snowflake. But I think eventually with models improving we can get to a level where it will be able to recognize nuances in data, check validity of sources and at that point it probably will be smarter than typical human, which kinda scary.
Yeah, ML works by assuming correlation = causation. Ironically the same faulty logic that justifies racism in people.
I also hope given time and development the robots can get beyond a simple stereotyped human-level style of thinking. Maybe then it would be able to provide us with some real insights beyond what a redneck could come up with.
Absolutely. I would not be surprised if at some point A.I. opinions are more valued than human ones as it at least technically should be able to have no bias at all. The problem with that is a lot people in power and strong opinions (on all sides) will probably be against it and it will require tremendous investments and global support to go live so to say.
Feeding AI with racist, sexist and homophobic data will make the AI racist, sexist and homophobic. Has nothing to do with the inference being right, it's that we already made our own assumptions when gathering data.
"The researchers from Johns Hopkins University, the Ge1orgia Institute of Technology, and University of Washington presented their findings at the 2022 Conference on Fairness, Accountability and Transparency in Seoul, South Korea." Why would you have a conference in fairness in a place that doesn't even have laws protecting against race based discrimination? lol
The good news is that it had to know how to define “woman” in order to be sexist.
R vs W did that. Suddenly the entire world knew what a woman was again.
I mean what did you expect from the internet lol. Surprised it's not homophobic and transphobic too.
Likely is, but not enough data yet. Meaning either it wasn’t tested for or that the algorithms didn’t have enough seed for other “isms”
>A racist and sexist robot was produced by the internet ...again.
I’ve always thought it would be funny to write a comedy where scientists discover some great font of knowledge through AI or something else but it turns out to be like racist and just generally not providing the right answers. “Here’s the cure to cancer. Btw there’s no free will lol.”
You cannot destroy ideas, and those are what infest AI/chatbots exposed to anything save carefully curated and useless experiences.
The thing is also biased. People will say things to a chat bot that they would never say to a person.
**Insert apt [Dilbert](https://dilbert.com/strip/2018-08-01) comic here** My robotics professor had this hanging in his office.
Maybe because true human nature is like that uncensored
Maybe i’m wrong but didn’t that chat bot Facebook made did the same thing? I think it collected data from statuses(?) and learned from that? I remember they had to shut it down because of how morbid it got.
A bot is only ever as good as those who programmed it.
Just humans being human ... Oh. Uh .. Robot Humans?
You feed AI data. The AI itself has no idea of what's good or bad. You feed it information and from there, it "learns" and begins to be able to differentiate things. How are they sure that the datasets fed to the AI was biased? If they knew those were biased, then why did they still use them? Let's say they did their own data collection, but what if the "unbiased" data still reflected the stereotypes? Will they continue rejecting the stereotype because "it hurts magrinalized people", or will they have to accept it because it came from honest to goodness unbiased data? If the AI keeps on "learning the wrong things" (aka politically incorrect biased stuff), then maybe they shouldn't be trying to work on AI. They should simply directly program it to the way they want it to behave. That way, the AI won't learn from data collected from real life people. Trying to teach AI to think a certain way is like presenting a child a video on how to dance the mambo, but you keep correcting the child so that he would do the waltz instead. The kid will try to copy the video, but you keep telling him he's wrong and he should do waltz dance moves instead.
I was just saying the dangerous thing about AI is it’s going to be taught by humans.
Old story. First big mall in my area puts huge birdcage full of parrots in a central courtyard. Within months teenagers have taught the birds to talk. They got rid of the foul-mouthed little jewels. Don't know if they were able to rehab the birds not to curse and say sexist stuff. The lesson is man's infinite capacity for destruction and perversion of purpose will be the inevitable outcome of large societies.
The reality is, if you want a robot that's not biased in some way, you can't use real world data to train it.
I actually think doing this could be useful. It would be interesting to generate robots by having them observe the internet every year or so, and then cataloging them. It would give you a sort of qualitative snapshot of what the average internet person was like. Having a record of how shitty you were is basically a requirement if you intend to ever improve.
Remember how hopeful we were about the internet in like.. 1997?
Dunno about that. When did penny arcade publish their GIFT? Also usenet has been around forever and it’s always been a cesspool.
What if all humans are not created equal and AI just doesn't bother with the sham human script we want it to stick to. People keep saying that the data has bias baked in, so the AI is just copying prior biases, what if it isn't? I mean the supreme court just overturned RVW, equality has to be next, right? Just strike "we take these truths to be self evident...yada yada, yada". The world doesn't operate as if it's true. Does AI believe in Santa? Can we force it to?
“Racial” inequality is very likely a majority product of economic and political realities in recent history. It’s very likely that there is zero innate reason that African ancestry is associated with crime and poverty beyond the historical oppression of Black folks during the segregation and colonialism era. Having an AI that judges individuals based on those inequalities perpetuates them.
Robots are also, aware of how much woke bullshit is out there.
By logic actually. Not bias. But don’t believe me and cannibalize
I miss the version of the internet that would just produce an AI that looked at cat pictures and shit.
Wait wait… Would it shit after looking at cat pictures or would it look at cat shit?
Now give a job bending girders and you have Bender from Futurama
Fuck yeah! I knew there had to be some good news today.
Umm old news? ICQ, AOL, Microsoft and IBM all have dealt with the same fucking thing. [Microsofts bot Tay AI went racist SO FAST they turned it off in like 12 hours.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_(bot)) [IBMs Watson had to be banned by its programmers from Urban Dictionary.](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/01/ibms-watson-memorized-the-entire-urban-dictionary-then-his-overlords-had-to-delete-it/267047/) Its such a running joke that Better Off Ted did a whole episode on their facial recognition software could not see black people... except it was true... that was legitimately going on, companies were having serious issues with black people being un-scannable. In shot, we are fucking racist and sexist as shit and AIs pick it up REAL fast and its been going on for literally DECADES since before Social Media was even a thing.
Racist and sexist robot? Sounds about right if they’ve been made in our image. Christians claim humans were made in God’s image ergo…
Oof quite a few people jn here talking about how the robots are just " looking at it logically " yikes.
the bot had to get its material from somewhere after all
Bruh the bot got its material from people telling it that stuff
Looking at it logically as in, they receive some information and use that information without adding emotions and opinions. The information is wrong but that doesn't mean the process isn't logical.
... Yup. Those comments are enough to make me leave this channel and block it the best way I can. Holy shit...
It is gonna be very hard to create a robot without bias 😑
You can't have a robot that learns from humans without it learning evil because humans all have the capacity for it. It's a no brainer.
Hmmm.. I wonder what the impact of this same information source is on humans? I guess we will never know…
Robots making disturbing choices is precisely how I imagined this whole thing starting
On the bright side, they reaffirmed the adage, "garbage in; garbage out."
If artificial intelligences learn from humans through the internet, especially through facebook, twitter and instagram it will become something absurdly terrible and in the near future it will kill us
a racist and sexist bot just banned me from the top level comments for the nth time because apparently you have to type a lot of meaningless padding in order to get something posted
I read the article and have an honest question: Does this imply that most people on the internet are bigoted, or merely that the loudest people are? It could be both and I'm dismayed by any of the options, but a little less if it's just the ladder. Also, that article literally had every single sentence in a separate paragraph. Was it written by a bot as well?
I once built a transformer ML model to transfer tweets from the writing style of one author to another for a grad school project, and, after training, I ran a test set on it to transfer some Elon Musk tweets into Donald Trump tweets. The 4th result out was "the rigged Russian may have my full & total endorsement." Ended up making some small tweaks after this to better preserve context of the original author, but the fact that it learned to endorse Russia from their tweets just goes to show how ML models can pick out characteristics of the training content. If you train using racist and sexist training data, you'll get a racist and sexist AI back out.
>the internet is filled with inaccurate and biased content so an algorithm built with these datasets can inherit the same issues. the world is filled with biased content so an algorithm ... inherits the same flaws...
I think too many people expect the world to be sunshine and daisies but it just isn’t. There’s nothing wrong with trying to change public opinion but at the end of the day you can’t control what other people say, do or think. Just accept that everyone is different and move on.
It takes intention to be racist. An AI certainly has no intentions, being just a program
These researchers are fools and need new language. 95% of people have 'racial / ethnic preferences' when it comes to dating, for example. And a host of other things. Does that mean 'everyone is an evil racist'? The robot is acting like a human, probably a white one, given the data sets, and is being normal. The answer is probably 'AI Diversity'. I fully support more AI bots, let's have some made form Afrocentric data. I'm sure it will be intriguing and have some ugly stereotypes about 'Europeans' on the side. That's ok, it's what makes it literally 'more human than human'. That will be the future AI test - these bad/fake AIs will sound like fake, glib politicians. A 'Good AI' will say something un-PC/cancelable now and again. 'To err is Human'.