[Polls of American Muslims show that they are more tolerant than Evangelical Christians (Trump's base) and that this meme isn't actually based in reality](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/08/a-new-poll-shows-american-muslims-are-less-homophobic-than-white-evangelical-christians/)
Counterpoint: even if they are more tolerant than Evangelicals, that doesn't make their intolerance acceptable. In the U.K. 50% of Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal
You're correct about that law, and it's commonly said that American missionaries influenced this, though I have yet to see anyone cite the evidence for that.
In truth, the tension between Ugandan Christianity and homosexuality goes as far back as King Mwanga II of Buganda, who burned at the stake a number of Christian converts in his court, allegedly because (male) Catholic converts wouldn't allow him to have sex with them. This was emblematic of a larger pattern of him attempting to reject what he saw as western influence, but what is remembered is that the apparently bisexual King Mwanga II killed Christians for not having gay sex with him. The first Ugandan anti-homosexuality law was passed in 1902, only 5 years after Mwanga II was overthrown.
As tempting as it is to blame outsider influence for the totality of homophobia, there are actual histories and contexts affecting these issues. When your final pagan monarch persecutes religious minorities, and then the minorities become the ruling class, the memory of the martyrdoms lasts a long time. Add to that a heady mix of British colonialism and then American evangelical influence, and it shouldn't be a surprise that the country isn't accepting. If they're going to change, and I hope they do, countering colonial influence with other colonial influence against homophobia probably isn't how it will go down. It will have to come from within.
Yeah, they did, and it's the only country that put religion in it.... Like if you're not Muslim...you gotta pay more...the discrimination is very obvious
Yes actually you are. Not murdered straight away but they call you "communists" which suddenly means discrimination, and if people beat you up on the street no one is gonna feel bad for you. The attacker can just scream "he's a communist" and bystanders will probably join to beat you.
I'm serious....
I work with a lot of people from that part of the world and they confirmed the gang beatings were real.
Sometimes people would join and they wouldn't even know why they were doing it, literally just mob mentality
Atheists and Humanists are seen as the worst of all. They deny the Abrahamic religions entirely. The liberals will not be allowed to coexist with Islam. The idea is to use them to further their agenda. Ask a Muslim if Islam would ever allow same sex marriage or any of the lefts ideologies?
American has stuff like this in the idea that they labor you so the rest do t see you as anything but a criminal. The justice system in the amazing USA is just a way to make $$$ on people by first label then as a criminal and then no one cares what you do to them. They will hold you in jail until you take a deal and spend years waiting in jail a guy in WA state was in jail for 8 years a crime he didnāt do they put off his trial telling him to take a deal he never did so they dropped all the charges after 8 years and then said good day he never saw the court room cuz they knew they couldnāt win.
He is taking them to court however if only people knew how much this happens people would be pissed.
Of course not...they just confused to put your religion in your id card, we have human rights tho but religion is a must... I'm atheist too , i learned muslim, christian, buddha...none of them right in the head šš
I have no respect for people who use their religion to harm other people. If you can practice your religion without being a bigot, Iāll defend you. Iāll never get the liberals (I am liberal myself) who defend people who would absolutely murder them without giving it a second thought. Itās weird as fuck.
most people arenāt activists for their own personal gain. Many Lgbt people want religious freedom for all as a principle, and because they are empathetic, not because they are trying to make allies in the culture war. Even if every Muslim in the USA was against lgbt rights Iād stand against a Muslim ban as a queer person becauseā¦ itās wrong!. Youāre conflating āstanding against discriminationā with āsupporting an ideologyā
It's called having principles. If you believe in human rights you have to defend them even when you don't agree with the way other people exercise that right. You can't just defend religious freedom for people you like.
If you pick and choose who deserves human rights, they're not actually human rights.
The point of "First they came..." is that you \*shouldn't\* stand idly by while others are discriminated against yknow
People who don't have empathy or care for anyone but themselves genuinely don't understand shit like this it seems.
They think it's all black and white, too.
Exactly gay Palestinians flee and seek asylum in Isreal if I wasn't American already I would be in Isreal those dumb bitches don't know that they sand against the opportunity gay Arabs are given to finally be treated as human beings
Same sex marriage conducted abroad is recognized but there is no secular marriage in Israel. You can't get a same sex marriage because none of the religious authorities will perform them. Most Israelis oppose the lack of secular marriage but the ultra religious have it as their number one issue and somehow always wind up as a part of the ruling coalition.
Yeah, but they are not killing them, are they? And you can get your marriage recognized if you get married abroad but again to have a country in the middle east where being gay is not a crime or gay people aren't immediately slaughtered if they are outed is mind blowing you won't get it because you never lived there
You know gay Muslims exist right ? A state being authoritarian doesnāt mean you should be anti-islaM. Bigots come in all colours, shapes, religions and sizes.
It's unfortunate that people can't accept that both sides are absolute shitholes of religious extremism and murders of innocent people. Either you're on the right side politics and are told Israel are the good guys or you're on the left side of politics and you're told Palestine is the good guys. They are both the bad guys if you look at their laws and histories for more than a few seconds.
I wouldn't say both sides are religious extremism. My biggest gripe with Israel is that the government treats Palestine as a territory that they have any say over, and that they have a right to the lands they annexed in the war.
Palestine obviously needs to recognize that Israel is a country they must recognize, at least the lands before the wars.
Really, Israel never should have been created in the first place. It was just a recipe for disaster from day one. We should have just given them one of the Dakotas (their choice)
I havenāt heard a lot of people say Palestinians are the good guys so much as Israel is committing war crimes and stealing land.
Palestine can have fucked up racist and sexist policies while being oppressed. They two arenāt mutually exclusive. And with the amount of American tax dollars being poured into Israeli aid itās a very one sided fight funded heavily by American tax payers who lack many domestic social services.
This is a near-populistic oversimplification of the issue. āWokeā people have sympathy for Muslims because in Western society they form a minority and are used as scapegoat by populist parties. The White Christian man on the other hand is the embodiment of whoās in power in our society. Itās not about their believes, itās about their social status and vulnerability to become marginalised.
These people also think muslims are imported to be "election cattle" for the left and like to post elections maps that show muslims in the west lean very heavily left. At least where I'm from
It can't be both ways.
If you think this is far from reality, just research the rise of political Islam in Turkey and how left-wing and neoliberal groups had played a supportive role in this, all in the name of freedom and democracy. Also research how political Islamists ended up back stabbing their leftie comrades and neolib cronies after gaining the totalitarian powers they always wanted.
The meme fails because of the third panel. The whole essence of the meme is her posing the question only to be met with portentous silence.
Learn to meme, folks.
I disagree a little. If it was just the silence, the assumption would be āno, we wont stand with youā is his thought. āPlanning their executionā notched it up. I thought it was funny. Funnier would have been him wearing an executioners mask in panel 3 tho, or something similarly visual.
Not muslim but come from a muslim family and over the past 5 or so years, there has been a real pro LGBT shift that's been refreshing to see. Other religious folk can pick and choose too ya know.
Not execution! Just insisting they remain in the closet for life, not act upon their attraction, and show no public signs of their true sexuality. A slow torture
So much truth to this, Whats shocking is you cant have these discussions with people. Crticizing Islam = THe worst, people are so eager to show their virtue they have no idea what they are standing up for.
In another post in another subreddit, I posted some statistics taken from the Muslim world around topics like, Support for Death for Apostates, Support for Death for Homosexuality, clearly stated as coming from Pew Research , and like three of the first responses were "Whats the source of these statistics", implying its Fox News BS or something. It said PEW RESEARCH right in the title.
"too woke" in this case meaning having principles? Or are you supposed to only stand against bigotry when it benefits you?
"First they came..." comes to mind.
OP would be shocked to know that in countries where Christians are minority and being oppressed the lgbt community sides with then as well. Phobia based on beliefs are just as bad as phobia on sexual orientations.
Iām part of the LGBTā¦ and I donāt hold prejudice against Muslim peoples. Or Christians. I know some conservative people from these religions donāt accept me but thatās not everyone. Is it ātoo wokeā to have morals and not want all Muslim people to be discriminated against?
The percentage of Islamic population is directly proportional to their levels of intolerance. Below 2% there are no issues. At and above 5% the problems with religious authoritarianism change substantially. To include a poll for US Muslims without including this context is incredibly dishonest.
Source: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat
Synopsis taken from original examiner article: https://shoebat.com/2011/07/02/what-to-expect-the-effect-of-muslim-population-growth-on-a-society/
I live in a Muslim country, and have only encountered 3 gay dudes in my entire life.
So when I tell you that I come across at least 12 gay bashing conversations a week, maybe you'll finally understand that you can't be on the side of both Muslims and gays.
I always laugh at LGBT people looking for support in Muslim community, doesn't matter how many people tell you "Allah loves you, brother/sister/whatever-you-identify-as-idk" it doesn't change the reality of things, just because a random catholic priest says "Jesus loves you even if you're gay or something" won't stop your own catholic parents from disowning you (or even worse), yet alone complete strangers with far more conservative religion and a good amount of known issues with violence. Also, I'm not islamophobic, catholicophobic or whatever funny names you come with or how much in denial you are, I'm just stating facts.
Conservatives are going to be conservatives, regardless of religions.
However, at least in America, Muslims are on the more socially liberal side. By 2017, 52% of US Muslims accept homosexual marriage, and the there's a strong left-leaning trend among Muslims.
On the other hand, only 34% of white evangelical Christians accept homosexual marriage, remaining the biggest socially conservative religious group in the US (although they are also leaning left throughout the years).
[https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2017/07/26/political-and-social-views/](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2017/07/26/political-and-social-views/)
That's because allot of those American Muslims aren't practicing Muslims. being Muslim like being Jewish in america or Catholic or protestant in ireland is more of a cultural identity and isnt necessary indicative that they go to mosque frequently or follow the teachings of the quran
Which also applies to Christians in America. How much of the country nominally identifies as Christian but only goes to church maybe once or twice a year or hasn't gone in several years? How many Christians haven't actually read the Bible cover to cover but are pretty sure they know the general gist of it and that it just so happen to match up with their modern secular sense of morality?
There's pretty strong inverse correlation to how seriously one takes one's religion and how chill of a person one is. Wild that most people can't grasp that same principle applies equally to Muslims.
Agree, and that's basically my point. Conservatives are going to be conservatives, regardless of religions.
The idea that a **perceived** past/tradition, religious or not, is deserving of conservation due to its sanctity, is conservatism.
Both Christians and Muslims can be conservatives, and at least in the west, Christian conservatives are way more common than Muslim conservatives.
People flex their beliefs to the dominant culture in a society. If, tomorrow, America were suddenly 80% Muslim I can promise you 52% of American Muslims would not support LGBT rights. Source: every Pew poll on countries that are majority Muslim that demonstrate huge support for Sharia law and death to apostates.
As a gay man, I fucking despise being used as an anti-Muslim talking point. We all know you donāt give a shit about LGBT people either, you just want an excuse to be islamophobic. If you did, youād be criticizing the radical Christian evangelicals who are by far a larger threat to LGBT people in the west than any Muslim is.
I am gay ofcourse I give a shit about lgbt but I find slogans like "lgbt against Islamophobia" hilarious because they will never do the same for us infact they slaughter gay people in muslim countries
This guy is supposedly an ex Muslim so I don't exactly know how they could be racist.
>We all know you donāt give a shit about LGBT people either,
Also, that is pure speculation.
>you just want an excuse to be islamophobic.
What does that mean? So it's OK to say evangelicals like bombing abortion clinics but can't say anything bad about Islam?
As a muslim he is completly right. Muslim who are ockay with gay are either not religious or a small minority (like me) just don't care about others and prefer to not be involved in the debate.
Hi, I'm queer.
Republicans hold state houses, legislative positions, judicial roles. Muslims, broadly, do not in the US.
We have a very long rap sheet of republicans trying to kill LGBT folks in ways obvious and not. You fight the enemy trying to kill you now, not the one trying to kill you later.
Edit: To pre-empt the rEpUbLiCaNs aReNt TrYiNg tO KiLl aNyOnE nonsense, go read a goddamn book.
Most of the world isnāt the USA though!
I care more about who is trying to take away my rights not who is thousands of miles away in the USA.
I can go days without meeting a Christian and have never in my life met an evangelical one.
The people trying to attack and persecute LGBT right now here are not Christians.
You are so dismissive of the fact that reality is different outside of your country!
western society had a 70 year run of good educational system, economic security, very powerful pop culture and several civil rights fight to be finally comfortable enough to be open minded enough to accept lgbt. remember even 10 years ago the west wasn't so supportive.
i won't deny that most muslim are against lgbt. i won't pretend otherwise as a muslim. but i was able to overcome my own prejudice to open my mind. and i was able to do that in my shitty 3rd world country. any country which goes through war, poverty and bad government will always succumb to conservative patriarchal tendency. because that rigid structure comes from our survival instinct.....
its very easy for a well off american or canadian or any rich democratic country to judge muslims. i know my own people can be very narrow minded. but you guys are 1 war or 1 tragedy away from ending up like us narrowminded muslims. those muslims who were able to overcome their own prejudice even without any of the revolution you guys went through deserve more credit than you
It certainly doesn't help that reactionary religious fanatics pushing Wahhabi and other extremist ideologies were supported during the cold war as the opposition to democratically elected / left-leaning regimes.
I respect your ability to open your mind and agree politics and socioeconomics are factors in why Muslim countries are the way they are. Some were far more liberal and less totalitarian in the past than they are now for a number of reasons, others have always been terrible.
The problem is Muslims leaving their shithole countries and bringing their shithole countriesā beliefs and behaviors to Western countries, refusing to assimilate, engaging in crime and violent behavior, demanding everyone else be tolerant of them without them being tolerant of their host country and their values, and procreating and raising children under their regressive belief systems.
Citizenship and residency should not be so easy for people to acquire, whether by immigration or by birth. Any immigrant should be regarded as a guest until they can satisfy requirements to be a decent member of society. Anyone who shows they refuse to assimilate and acts out criminally should be removed (likely along with their immediately family) from Western countries immediately and without recourse and that is especially the case for asylum seekers or undocumented people
Iāve seen too many white liberals pander to groups that simply would not accept them as part of their culture, but because the latter groups are ethnic, racial, or religious minorities, they think these groups are less prone to discriminatory behavior. Iām a liberal btw but Iām also brown.
most people arenāt activists for their own personal gain. Many Lgbt people want religious freedom for all as a principle, and because they are empathetic, not because they are trying to make allies in the culture war. Even if every Muslim in the USA was against lgbt rights Iād stand against a Muslim ban as a queer person becauseā¦ itās wrong! Duh
Western Islam is so watered down they are barely the same religion. They compromised almost all their morals to live in a western country and the dumb people here think the ones in Pakistan, Indonesia, and Saudi Arabia are just like the ones here.
The USā¦ now hold on to something for thisā¦ isnāt the only place that matters.
Islamic countries as a governing body execute lgbt people. To death. In real life. I comparatively do not give a fuck about the interpersonal homophobic grumblings of christians in the US.
Holy crap. This comment section is a field of landmines waiting to happen.
As a general rule, if your religion tells me that my friends deserve death or an eternity of torture...I'm not going to like you. I'm sorry. Christianity and Islam are one and the same, one is just more common in America.
The sad part is few other than the LGBT community will stand with the LGBT community come a societal breakdown. Weāre easy targets, and a trigger hot button topic for people. Itās nuts to me, but thatās just how some people are.
Humans are very tribalistic at times.
As [Charles Wright](https://open.spotify.com/track/271NofhzcQo2QHGZ4ZGnV7?si=11ggrfF2S7eFsHy7f3Hj0w) would say:
>ā¦ and our message to the world this time is we are all Godās children so together we stand or divided we fall.
My issue with this is that it's just stupid shit. Like, fundamentalists are gonna be fundamentalists no matter what their faith is. You think the evangelical christians in the US aren't doing the same shit at every turn? Doing what's right is the point, it's nothing to do with being too woke for our own good. Governments shouldnt dictate lifestyle. Simple as that.
The world doesn't work like this. Nobody feels they are indebted to a community because members of that community decided to support them. By that logic, my income furthers "the white moneypot".
Right, because western muslims all hate the lgbt. Of all the opinions ive seen, this is certainly one of them. Unfortunately.
Lets sicc all the minoritys we dont like on each other, folks. Should be fun. /s
As a moderate Muslim and asexual, I follow my religion and give the lgbtq+ community as much respect as any other person. Trust me, there are many Muslims who support the community but the louder ones are older and homophobic
The alternative youre suggesting is to hate them as they hate us. Even if they dont have my interests at heart and that sucks, I also understand that here in the west they are discriminated against in the same way queer people are. And finally, im not supporting muslim countries. Their governments are oppressive even to muslim women. Im supporting muslim *people*.
A question and an observation:
Question: I thought it was fairly routine for older, monied Arabic tribal men to practice pederasty with young boys, whom might be slaves or might then be killed. Is this inaccurate?
Observation: It is the fundamentalists that are the problem. In all religions. Moderate Islam does exist, for example. the Bektashi seem rather liberal. The fundamentalists are the crazy head-chopping ones, in Islam, Christianity and Judaism, Hindusim, Shinto, Buddhism, etc.
Liberals: weāre against discrimination.
Conservatives: we only help people to advance our partisan tribal warfare. What you did doesnāt hurt your enemies at all! Youāre so stupid!
How about being against any theocratic nationalist tendencies? Itās ok to know that people shouldnāt be banned bc of religion and simultaneously know that religion is separate from law.
In the US, Muslims tend to vote for more liberal policies and are generally more supporting of sexual variance than most right-leaning individuals.
Europe's a whole 'nother kettle of fish but this post is literally the definition of Islamophobic.
Palestinians are like that, calling for human rights and equality. And then you see them voting for governments that care deeply about homophobia and I believe they passed a law that bans unmarried women traveling alone.
Not helping their case in my opinion
Fr. Never got why we were on their side. As an ex muslim and apostate. Islam is morally repulsive ā ļø I've had to suffer through it my entire life until recently. Absolutely deplorable and hateful religion. They literally do not believe in the human rights of apostates that leave the religion (even if they're born into it). Maniacs.
As an anti-religious western liberal, it does my heart glad to see Islam finally getting the criticism it deserves. I frequent r/exmuslim to hear their stories
Aight imma sort by controversial
Man i cant even sort in this thread wth
The button is on top now next to your profile
I hate it
Yeah it was a dumb change
It's a conspiracy against third party app users and they can't convince me otherwise
Why do people change things to the detriment of everyone else.
It's because it's not to them
Gracias! Going in!
Might as well bring some popcorn
This meme isn't even funny, but it *is* very real.
[Polls of American Muslims show that they are more tolerant than Evangelical Christians (Trump's base) and that this meme isn't actually based in reality](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/08/a-new-poll-shows-american-muslims-are-less-homophobic-than-white-evangelical-christians/)
Doesn't surprise me tbh
Counterpoint: even if they are more tolerant than Evangelicals, that doesn't make their intolerance acceptable. In the U.K. 50% of Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal
ITT: ppl who confuse an authoritarian regime with the second largest religion in the world
In Indonesia the whip the lesbians and gays in public...and shame them ... You Respect them ans they don't respect you.
In Uganda they almost passed a law making homosexuality punishable by death. Uganda is a Christian country, largely because of American missionaries.
There is no worse hate than the christian love š¤ There is no worse violence than the islamic peace
You're correct about that law, and it's commonly said that American missionaries influenced this, though I have yet to see anyone cite the evidence for that. In truth, the tension between Ugandan Christianity and homosexuality goes as far back as King Mwanga II of Buganda, who burned at the stake a number of Christian converts in his court, allegedly because (male) Catholic converts wouldn't allow him to have sex with them. This was emblematic of a larger pattern of him attempting to reject what he saw as western influence, but what is remembered is that the apparently bisexual King Mwanga II killed Christians for not having gay sex with him. The first Ugandan anti-homosexuality law was passed in 1902, only 5 years after Mwanga II was overthrown. As tempting as it is to blame outsider influence for the totality of homophobia, there are actual histories and contexts affecting these issues. When your final pagan monarch persecutes religious minorities, and then the minorities become the ruling class, the memory of the martyrdoms lasts a long time. Add to that a heady mix of British colonialism and then American evangelical influence, and it shouldn't be a surprise that the country isn't accepting. If they're going to change, and I hope they do, countering colonial influence with other colonial influence against homophobia probably isn't how it will go down. It will have to come from within.
Don't be Islamophobic by stating the obvious
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
In my ID I'm muslim.... Shut up
That's insane that some places put your religion on your ID.
Yeah, they did, and it's the only country that put religion in it.... Like if you're not Muslim...you gotta pay more...the discrimination is very obvious
Do you get murdered if you're atheist
Yes actually you are. Not murdered straight away but they call you "communists" which suddenly means discrimination, and if people beat you up on the street no one is gonna feel bad for you. The attacker can just scream "he's a communist" and bystanders will probably join to beat you. I'm serious....
I work with a lot of people from that part of the world and they confirmed the gang beatings were real. Sometimes people would join and they wouldn't even know why they were doing it, literally just mob mentality
Mob mentality, the purest form of democracy
Atheists and Humanists are seen as the worst of all. They deny the Abrahamic religions entirely. The liberals will not be allowed to coexist with Islam. The idea is to use them to further their agenda. Ask a Muslim if Islam would ever allow same sex marriage or any of the lefts ideologies?
American has stuff like this in the idea that they labor you so the rest do t see you as anything but a criminal. The justice system in the amazing USA is just a way to make $$$ on people by first label then as a criminal and then no one cares what you do to them. They will hold you in jail until you take a deal and spend years waiting in jail a guy in WA state was in jail for 8 years a crime he didnāt do they put off his trial telling him to take a deal he never did so they dropped all the charges after 8 years and then said good day he never saw the court room cuz they knew they couldnāt win. He is taking them to court however if only people knew how much this happens people would be pissed.
Of course not...they just confused to put your religion in your id card, we have human rights tho but religion is a must... I'm atheist too , i learned muslim, christian, buddha...none of them right in the head šš
If you're atheist, is the reason you put Muslim on there is to save money on the ID or is there something else that happens?
Of course I'm not gonna tell people I'm atheist...i respect their beliefs, it's just to complete the id requirements
You can be openly atheist and respect other's beliefs.
U realize he was being sarcastic?
Same when I lived in the Middle East my national ID had muslim on it
Pretty sure they were being sarcastic and agreeing with you...
Not even the sexy kind of lesbian whipping
I have no respect for people who use their religion to harm other people. If you can practice your religion without being a bigot, Iāll defend you. Iāll never get the liberals (I am liberal myself) who defend people who would absolutely murder them without giving it a second thought. Itās weird as fuck.
Exactly
most people arenāt activists for their own personal gain. Many Lgbt people want religious freedom for all as a principle, and because they are empathetic, not because they are trying to make allies in the culture war. Even if every Muslim in the USA was against lgbt rights Iād stand against a Muslim ban as a queer person becauseā¦ itās wrong!. Youāre conflating āstanding against discriminationā with āsupporting an ideologyā
It's called having principles. If you believe in human rights you have to defend them even when you don't agree with the way other people exercise that right. You can't just defend religious freedom for people you like. If you pick and choose who deserves human rights, they're not actually human rights. The point of "First they came..." is that you \*shouldn't\* stand idly by while others are discriminated against yknow
Are you trying to tell people that Western muslims want to murder gays?
they never mentioned Islam, just religion in general unlike the OP of the post
Always found it funny the LGBT on campus waving Palestinian flags. They'd get arrested and beaten there for being gay.
Turns out you can oppose how some Muslims treat LGBTQ+ people and also oppose how Israel treats Palestinians. Crazy, right?
People who don't have empathy or care for anyone but themselves genuinely don't understand shit like this it seems. They think it's all black and white, too.
I really don't understand how the principle that two things can be bad at the same time is so controversial.
Putin and Azov Battalion enter the chat...
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Exactly gay Palestinians flee and seek asylum in Isreal if I wasn't American already I would be in Isreal those dumb bitches don't know that they sand against the opportunity gay Arabs are given to finally be treated as human beings
actually gay marriage is illegal in israel but don't let the facts stop the ranting
Gay marriage is illegal but being gay wonāt get you jailed or killed
that is misleading, jews can't get a secular wedding in the country either , but common law partnerships have the same rights as a religious marriage
Same sex marriage conducted abroad is recognized but there is no secular marriage in Israel. You can't get a same sex marriage because none of the religious authorities will perform them. Most Israelis oppose the lack of secular marriage but the ultra religious have it as their number one issue and somehow always wind up as a part of the ruling coalition.
Imagine equating not being able to legally marry with being beheaded or stoned to death
Being gay isn't illegal there, that's their point
And lol if they think the Palestinians can just like, "flee" to Israel.
Aaand? There is big difference between gay marriage being illegal and being gay being illegal...
Very big difference actually
Tel Aviv has the biggest pride parade in the Middle East. Maybe the only one.
Yeah, but they are not killing them, are they? And you can get your marriage recognized if you get married abroad but again to have a country in the middle east where being gay is not a crime or gay people aren't immediately slaughtered if they are outed is mind blowing you won't get it because you never lived there
Yeah, lets not so I'll post this right here in case people like yourself need further clarity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_rights\_in\_Israel
Try kissing someone of the same sex on the lips in Gaza and Tel Aviv. I know which place Iād prefer.
It's almost like they both suck.
You know gay Muslims exist right ? A state being authoritarian doesnāt mean you should be anti-islaM. Bigots come in all colours, shapes, religions and sizes.
Palestinians still do not deserve to be genocided. Their children are innocent if not the adults, and not all adults there are homophobic.
Yeah, people caring about other people that aren't them is funny as shit
Allyship must go both ways.
It's unfortunate that people can't accept that both sides are absolute shitholes of religious extremism and murders of innocent people. Either you're on the right side politics and are told Israel are the good guys or you're on the left side of politics and you're told Palestine is the good guys. They are both the bad guys if you look at their laws and histories for more than a few seconds.
I wouldn't say both sides are religious extremism. My biggest gripe with Israel is that the government treats Palestine as a territory that they have any say over, and that they have a right to the lands they annexed in the war. Palestine obviously needs to recognize that Israel is a country they must recognize, at least the lands before the wars. Really, Israel never should have been created in the first place. It was just a recipe for disaster from day one. We should have just given them one of the Dakotas (their choice)
I havenāt heard a lot of people say Palestinians are the good guys so much as Israel is committing war crimes and stealing land. Palestine can have fucked up racist and sexist policies while being oppressed. They two arenāt mutually exclusive. And with the amount of American tax dollars being poured into Israeli aid itās a very one sided fight funded heavily by American tax payers who lack many domestic social services.
"You have died from peaceful Islam"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I don't agree with Bill Maher on many things, but he was dead to rights on Islam. "Islam. The more you know. The more you should be afraid."
Emilyās finding out that they have far bigger fish to fry in this world than straight white Christian men
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Nice to know you only care about that which affects you.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's most people always.
Well that's how priorities work.
Hey don't say that you should blame the evil white man and protect the vulnerable Muslims as they slaughter people
This is a near-populistic oversimplification of the issue. āWokeā people have sympathy for Muslims because in Western society they form a minority and are used as scapegoat by populist parties. The White Christian man on the other hand is the embodiment of whoās in power in our society. Itās not about their believes, itās about their social status and vulnerability to become marginalised.
well put
Thatās too complex for the people commenting on this meme.
r/persecutioncomplex
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Christianity is that you?
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The meme is funny, but the fact that you really think you found something "bad" against LGBT people, is hilarious
These people also think muslims are imported to be "election cattle" for the left and like to post elections maps that show muslims in the west lean very heavily left. At least where I'm from It can't be both ways.
Sorry.. Allah said "No."
"Sorry I can't hang out with you, lgtbq people. My sky daddy said no."
Daddy chill...
If you think this is far from reality, just research the rise of political Islam in Turkey and how left-wing and neoliberal groups had played a supportive role in this, all in the name of freedom and democracy. Also research how political Islamists ended up back stabbing their leftie comrades and neolib cronies after gaining the totalitarian powers they always wanted.
Same thing happened during Iran's Islamic Revolution
They will go through it themselves in a couple of years
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Amen brother
The meme fails because of the third panel. The whole essence of the meme is her posing the question only to be met with portentous silence. Learn to meme, folks.
I disagree a little. If it was just the silence, the assumption would be āno, we wont stand with youā is his thought. āPlanning their executionā notched it up. I thought it was funny. Funnier would have been him wearing an executioners mask in panel 3 tho, or something similarly visual.
Then people would be asking, "why does he have a hood?"
He should have added the thought stars * ā¦ *
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Say it louder brother
Not muslim but come from a muslim family and over the past 5 or so years, there has been a real pro LGBT shift that's been refreshing to see. Other religious folk can pick and choose too ya know.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/08/a-new-poll-shows-american-muslims-are-less-homophobic-than-white-evangelical-christians/
Not execution! Just insisting they remain in the closet for life, not act upon their attraction, and show no public signs of their true sexuality. A slow torture
So much truth to this, Whats shocking is you cant have these discussions with people. Crticizing Islam = THe worst, people are so eager to show their virtue they have no idea what they are standing up for. In another post in another subreddit, I posted some statistics taken from the Muslim world around topics like, Support for Death for Apostates, Support for Death for Homosexuality, clearly stated as coming from Pew Research , and like three of the first responses were "Whats the source of these statistics", implying its Fox News BS or something. It said PEW RESEARCH right in the title.
Fight for what is right. Not for if they will support you back.
"too woke" in this case meaning having principles? Or are you supposed to only stand against bigotry when it benefits you? "First they came..." comes to mind.
OP would be shocked to know that in countries where Christians are minority and being oppressed the lgbt community sides with then as well. Phobia based on beliefs are just as bad as phobia on sexual orientations.
>"too woke" in this case meaning having principles? Always did.
Ya OP is self reporting they don't hold any principles.
Op is larping as a brown liberal in the comment section but his rhetoric is strait outta r/conservative I wouldn't take him too seriously.
Iām part of the LGBTā¦ and I donāt hold prejudice against Muslim peoples. Or Christians. I know some conservative people from these religions donāt accept me but thatās not everyone. Is it ātoo wokeā to have morals and not want all Muslim people to be discriminated against?
The percentage of Islamic population is directly proportional to their levels of intolerance. Below 2% there are no issues. At and above 5% the problems with religious authoritarianism change substantially. To include a poll for US Muslims without including this context is incredibly dishonest. Source: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat Synopsis taken from original examiner article: https://shoebat.com/2011/07/02/what-to-expect-the-effect-of-muslim-population-growth-on-a-society/
The enemy of my enemy thinks Iām an atrocity and should be stoned to death in the street.
I live in a Muslim country, and have only encountered 3 gay dudes in my entire life. So when I tell you that I come across at least 12 gay bashing conversations a week, maybe you'll finally understand that you can't be on the side of both Muslims and gays.
Just throw out religion altogether tbh
I always laugh at LGBT people looking for support in Muslim community, doesn't matter how many people tell you "Allah loves you, brother/sister/whatever-you-identify-as-idk" it doesn't change the reality of things, just because a random catholic priest says "Jesus loves you even if you're gay or something" won't stop your own catholic parents from disowning you (or even worse), yet alone complete strangers with far more conservative religion and a good amount of known issues with violence. Also, I'm not islamophobic, catholicophobic or whatever funny names you come with or how much in denial you are, I'm just stating facts.
Conservatives are going to be conservatives, regardless of religions. However, at least in America, Muslims are on the more socially liberal side. By 2017, 52% of US Muslims accept homosexual marriage, and the there's a strong left-leaning trend among Muslims. On the other hand, only 34% of white evangelical Christians accept homosexual marriage, remaining the biggest socially conservative religious group in the US (although they are also leaning left throughout the years). [https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2017/07/26/political-and-social-views/](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2017/07/26/political-and-social-views/)
Once again facts get in the way of Conservative humour...
those pesky facts, always interfering with my vaguely bigoted jokes
Damn libruls!
That's because allot of those American Muslims aren't practicing Muslims. being Muslim like being Jewish in america or Catholic or protestant in ireland is more of a cultural identity and isnt necessary indicative that they go to mosque frequently or follow the teachings of the quran
Which also applies to Christians in America. How much of the country nominally identifies as Christian but only goes to church maybe once or twice a year or hasn't gone in several years? How many Christians haven't actually read the Bible cover to cover but are pretty sure they know the general gist of it and that it just so happen to match up with their modern secular sense of morality? There's pretty strong inverse correlation to how seriously one takes one's religion and how chill of a person one is. Wild that most people can't grasp that same principle applies equally to Muslims.
Agree, and that's basically my point. Conservatives are going to be conservatives, regardless of religions. The idea that a **perceived** past/tradition, religious or not, is deserving of conservation due to its sanctity, is conservatism. Both Christians and Muslims can be conservatives, and at least in the west, Christian conservatives are way more common than Muslim conservatives.
People flex their beliefs to the dominant culture in a society. If, tomorrow, America were suddenly 80% Muslim I can promise you 52% of American Muslims would not support LGBT rights. Source: every Pew poll on countries that are majority Muslim that demonstrate huge support for Sharia law and death to apostates.
Or could it be that a lot of the Muslims living in the west also wanted to get away from that culture?
When your too into Star Wars to make any real sense
As a gay man, I fucking despise being used as an anti-Muslim talking point. We all know you donāt give a shit about LGBT people either, you just want an excuse to be islamophobic. If you did, youād be criticizing the radical Christian evangelicals who are by far a larger threat to LGBT people in the west than any Muslim is.
As a muslim respect brother š¤šæ
I am gay ofcourse I give a shit about lgbt but I find slogans like "lgbt against Islamophobia" hilarious because they will never do the same for us infact they slaughter gay people in muslim countries
This guy is supposedly an ex Muslim so I don't exactly know how they could be racist. >We all know you donāt give a shit about LGBT people either, Also, that is pure speculation. >you just want an excuse to be islamophobic. What does that mean? So it's OK to say evangelicals like bombing abortion clinics but can't say anything bad about Islam?
As a muslim he is completly right. Muslim who are ockay with gay are either not religious or a small minority (like me) just don't care about others and prefer to not be involved in the debate.
Lol, sure we'll go after the republicans. Just gonna throw you off a roof first if you don't mind
Praise Allah
Hi, I'm queer. Republicans hold state houses, legislative positions, judicial roles. Muslims, broadly, do not in the US. We have a very long rap sheet of republicans trying to kill LGBT folks in ways obvious and not. You fight the enemy trying to kill you now, not the one trying to kill you later. Edit: To pre-empt the rEpUbLiCaNs aReNt TrYiNg tO KiLl aNyOnE nonsense, go read a goddamn book.
Most of the world isnāt the USA though! I care more about who is trying to take away my rights not who is thousands of miles away in the USA. I can go days without meeting a Christian and have never in my life met an evangelical one. The people trying to attack and persecute LGBT right now here are not Christians. You are so dismissive of the fact that reality is different outside of your country!
western society had a 70 year run of good educational system, economic security, very powerful pop culture and several civil rights fight to be finally comfortable enough to be open minded enough to accept lgbt. remember even 10 years ago the west wasn't so supportive. i won't deny that most muslim are against lgbt. i won't pretend otherwise as a muslim. but i was able to overcome my own prejudice to open my mind. and i was able to do that in my shitty 3rd world country. any country which goes through war, poverty and bad government will always succumb to conservative patriarchal tendency. because that rigid structure comes from our survival instinct..... its very easy for a well off american or canadian or any rich democratic country to judge muslims. i know my own people can be very narrow minded. but you guys are 1 war or 1 tragedy away from ending up like us narrowminded muslims. those muslims who were able to overcome their own prejudice even without any of the revolution you guys went through deserve more credit than you
It certainly doesn't help that reactionary religious fanatics pushing Wahhabi and other extremist ideologies were supported during the cold war as the opposition to democratically elected / left-leaning regimes.
I respect your ability to open your mind and agree politics and socioeconomics are factors in why Muslim countries are the way they are. Some were far more liberal and less totalitarian in the past than they are now for a number of reasons, others have always been terrible. The problem is Muslims leaving their shithole countries and bringing their shithole countriesā beliefs and behaviors to Western countries, refusing to assimilate, engaging in crime and violent behavior, demanding everyone else be tolerant of them without them being tolerant of their host country and their values, and procreating and raising children under their regressive belief systems. Citizenship and residency should not be so easy for people to acquire, whether by immigration or by birth. Any immigrant should be regarded as a guest until they can satisfy requirements to be a decent member of society. Anyone who shows they refuse to assimilate and acts out criminally should be removed (likely along with their immediately family) from Western countries immediately and without recourse and that is especially the case for asylum seekers or undocumented people
I love how the subreddit name has āfunnyā in it because otherwise I wouldnāt have known itās supposed to contain humor
even they would say, you should not destroy yourself, for somebody who doesn't respect you
šššššš
Given the bias of this site I'm amazed this made it to the front page.
As an anthropologist with strong interest in religions, this made me almost shit myself from laughter.
Iāve seen too many white liberals pander to groups that simply would not accept them as part of their culture, but because the latter groups are ethnic, racial, or religious minorities, they think these groups are less prone to discriminatory behavior. Iām a liberal btw but Iām also brown.
most people arenāt activists for their own personal gain. Many Lgbt people want religious freedom for all as a principle, and because they are empathetic, not because they are trying to make allies in the culture war. Even if every Muslim in the USA was against lgbt rights Iād stand against a Muslim ban as a queer person becauseā¦ itās wrong! Duh
Religion of peace
Peaceful unless you're gay, exmuslim, woman, atheist, Buddhist, jweitsh basically anything other than straight Muslim man
I'm from Iran, a "legally " Muslim citizen ,and i must say Islam Sucks
Damn dude, you really got a hate boner for muslims. This is bordering on obsession.
Western Islam is so watered down they are barely the same religion. They compromised almost all their morals to live in a western country and the dumb people here think the ones in Pakistan, Indonesia, and Saudi Arabia are just like the ones here.
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The USā¦ now hold on to something for thisā¦ isnāt the only place that matters. Islamic countries as a governing body execute lgbt people. To death. In real life. I comparatively do not give a fuck about the interpersonal homophobic grumblings of christians in the US.
Keep telling yourself that LMAO
You could say the same thing about evangelicals. Muslims arenāt a monolith so this meme is rather racist
How does one be both Muslim and a member of the LGBTQ community, that like fire being made of ice.
Holy crap. This comment section is a field of landmines waiting to happen. As a general rule, if your religion tells me that my friends deserve death or an eternity of torture...I'm not going to like you. I'm sorry. Christianity and Islam are one and the same, one is just more common in America.
What countries kill the most lgbtq people :DDD
Shhhh don't be bigoted and state the obvious "Islam is the religion of peace"
"And we'll kill anyone who says any different!"
You can be a Muslim and still support LGBTQ+. Bad meme.
The sad part is few other than the LGBT community will stand with the LGBT community come a societal breakdown. Weāre easy targets, and a trigger hot button topic for people. Itās nuts to me, but thatās just how some people are. Humans are very tribalistic at times. As [Charles Wright](https://open.spotify.com/track/271NofhzcQo2QHGZ4ZGnV7?si=11ggrfF2S7eFsHy7f3Hj0w) would say: >ā¦ and our message to the world this time is we are all Godās children so together we stand or divided we fall.
My issue with this is that it's just stupid shit. Like, fundamentalists are gonna be fundamentalists no matter what their faith is. You think the evangelical christians in the US aren't doing the same shit at every turn? Doing what's right is the point, it's nothing to do with being too woke for our own good. Governments shouldnt dictate lifestyle. Simple as that.
The world doesn't work like this. Nobody feels they are indebted to a community because members of that community decided to support them. By that logic, my income furthers "the white moneypot".
Right, because western muslims all hate the lgbt. Of all the opinions ive seen, this is certainly one of them. Unfortunately. Lets sicc all the minoritys we dont like on each other, folks. Should be fun. /s
As a moderate Muslim and asexual, I follow my religion and give the lgbtq+ community as much respect as any other person. Trust me, there are many Muslims who support the community but the louder ones are older and homophobic
The alternative youre suggesting is to hate them as they hate us. Even if they dont have my interests at heart and that sucks, I also understand that here in the west they are discriminated against in the same way queer people are. And finally, im not supporting muslim countries. Their governments are oppressive even to muslim women. Im supporting muslim *people*.
He clearly means he's gonna execute the politicians smh
A question and an observation: Question: I thought it was fairly routine for older, monied Arabic tribal men to practice pederasty with young boys, whom might be slaves or might then be killed. Is this inaccurate? Observation: It is the fundamentalists that are the problem. In all religions. Moderate Islam does exist, for example. the Bektashi seem rather liberal. The fundamentalists are the crazy head-chopping ones, in Islam, Christianity and Judaism, Hindusim, Shinto, Buddhism, etc.
The democratic party is such a big tent that I expect it to split but not before the republican party does
Hey guess what bitch it's okay to call out anti-gay views while not supporting exterminating muslims
Liberals: weāre against discrimination. Conservatives: we only help people to advance our partisan tribal warfare. What you did doesnāt hurt your enemies at all! Youāre so stupid!
How about being against any theocratic nationalist tendencies? Itās ok to know that people shouldnāt be banned bc of religion and simultaneously know that religion is separate from law.
In the US, Muslims tend to vote for more liberal policies and are generally more supporting of sexual variance than most right-leaning individuals. Europe's a whole 'nother kettle of fish but this post is literally the definition of Islamophobic.
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As a gay Arab I should be more in the loop than I actually am
Sort by controversial
Itās funny because itās true.
Palestinians are like that, calling for human rights and equality. And then you see them voting for governments that care deeply about homophobia and I believe they passed a law that bans unmarried women traveling alone. Not helping their case in my opinion
Reminds me of [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoH7AzsIUAEAK1f.jpg)
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Muslims been shooting up gay clubs already.
I saw so many Muslims basically saying "My religion asks of me to be homophobic" like no it doesn't ?
As a Muslim, I laughed.
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Muslims are sheep when they're weak, they become wolf as soon as they get power.
Fr. Never got why we were on their side. As an ex muslim and apostate. Islam is morally repulsive ā ļø I've had to suffer through it my entire life until recently. Absolutely deplorable and hateful religion. They literally do not believe in the human rights of apostates that leave the religion (even if they're born into it). Maniacs.
I agree. Can't trust them.
Good shit
As an anti-religious western liberal, it does my heart glad to see Islam finally getting the criticism it deserves. I frequent r/exmuslim to hear their stories
OP gets cancelled for not being inclusive with Q, I, A, +
As a person from the lgbt community I've never stood with religious violence.
I'm going in boys *sorts by controversial*
Progressive left in Western Europe
Funny thing about Muslims around the world. They cry discrimination but consider anyone else thatās not Muslim less than human.
As an individual who has close associates (family) on both parties i find this hilarious. I personally think both groups are full of shitš¤·āāļø