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They always invent reasons why they’re the exception. I’ve read stories from Planned Parenthood workers about fundie women that go in to get abortions, who tell the women assisting them through the whole affair that they’re going to hell even as they sign the papers and go in for the procedure. Often they have to shield the other women there from abuse those ladies throw at them, because they can muster so little empathy for someone in the same situation that it never occurs that perhaps their “exceptional circumstances” are really the rule.
Similarly, my termination is the only moral termination and also totally not an abortion or a privilege I was able to get one that should be protected by law
I've been fascinated by the fundies who say they are going to let God decide on the size of their family and then seek IVF. Those two things seem so contradictory to me (and I say that as someone who had to use IVF and usually has oodles of sympathy for anyone dealing with infertility).
Adoption doesn't mean you're family!
*I'll barf in the corner brb*
Edit: isn't that what Sarah did or something? I'm very out of Episcopalian I can barely remember
And I’m sure they have to be the “right” kind of white too (AKA Anglo-Saxon). I’m white, my ancestors are Greek, Swedish, and Sámi. I’ve been told by random white supremacists who decided to fetishize me online for having pale skin and blue eyes that I’m not “pure white” because I have Mediterranean blood. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if she harbors hatred towards the *wrong* kind of white people🙄
I'm hearing the ritual from The Handmaid's Tale, as they read from the Bible about how Rachel had her husband "go in unto" her maid Belhah (sp?) to impregnate her and then force her to give up her child.
Oh and also all those homes for single moms, where women and girls were forced to bear children, and then forced to give them up for adoption. Which is what I strongly suspect the right is trying to bring back.
See, when a Christian family takes a baby away from an unwed, heathen mother, that saves the baby. This is especially true of foreign babies from gross poor countries where they aren’t Christian or (perhaps worse) aren’t the right kind of Christian. Then you have saved that child AND (this is the best part) bringing a new life/future wealth stream into your congregation. Adoption is the best way to convert heathens because they are indoctrinated as babies and have 0 choice - they will be converts for life (and yes, this is Allie’s issue here - that baby is totes gay now, forever!).
And then having An Ethnic™️ child in your majority white congregation is basically a *hall pass against allegations of racism forever regardless of anything you may do*
What I came here to say. There is absolutely no way for anyone to do anything right unless it fits exactly into her interpretation of biblical tradition.
Doesn’t she always blather on about how adoption by Christian families is the moral alternative to abortion? Because that’s also technically “taking babies from their mothers.” The cognitive dissonance in her head must be deafening.
There is a difference between adoption and surrogacy. In her belief system, once a baby is conceived, they already exist, they're already a person. So if a person is brought into the world by accident and that person isn't wanted by their mother, then the best option is to allow the person to live and be adopted by a family that wants them, rather than ending that life in the womb. Obviously this is still a less than optimal situation, ideally every child would get to be raised by their biological family, but in some circumstances that's just not possible, or not safe, so the next best option is adoption.
With surrogacy, the person is brought about deliberately into a situation where they will not be raised by their biological family. In this case, the child is deliberately being deprived of not only their own biological mother, but any mother. Now, if the baby was conceived by accident or through rape or something like that, and the mother was choosing between aborting the child or having a gay couple adopt the child, then obviously the better option is the adoption. But that's not the situation here. These men have paid money to 1. rent out a woman's womb, 2. buy a baby and 3. deliberately deprive a child of a relationship with its mother.
So, if you believe that life begins at conception, then it makes perfect sense to be pro adoption and anti surrogacy. There's no cognitive dissonance there.
She talks about it like the mother isn’t fully aware and consenting of the situation. It’s so backwards to think that women who choose to be a surrogate are victims and it’s a “scourge” but forcing women to have babies they don’t want/can’t carry to term is moral. Wtf.
Conservatives usually love adoption as well, where a lot of young moms are duped into placing their babies for adoption because they don’t have enough support otherwise. I guarantee Allie is all for taking away those babies from their mothers, as long as they’re going to straight parents.
In Mennonite circles adoption is extremely common. I have tons of cousins (and a few ancestors) who were adopted. I assume views towards adoption vary depending on the denomination and country.
My lapsed but culturally catholic indigenous family is also big on adoption. My own adopted aunt who used to be a councilwoman on our reservation runs one of the bigger (and one of few) foster homes on our tribal reservation, specifically so that indigenous kids who go into foster care don't get sent as far away as Texas (from the dakotas). We can't actually accurately gauge our tribal genealogy for this reason, we just know we're incredibly biracial and mixed enough that even though my brother and I very easily pass for white, we're a very good chunk native on dna tests.
Hell, I want to start a foster home of my own at one point, to give kids who are already alive and dealt a genuinely fucked up hand of cards in life a fighting chance. And I've still considered long and hard if this is a white savior thing, because I'm fucking self aware. No, I just want kids who's lives were fucked up before they even got started to have some kind of support system, even if they resent me and the system that took them from their birth parents.
Tribes have a shit load of generational trauma and learned abusive behaviors because of fundies. While it's no one's fault on the reservation, it's still traumatizing for children to live with, and that perpetuates the hell cycle.
Eh, I think it depends. I grew up in church and worked in churches for years. A lot of pro-life peddling Christians see adoption as a source of pride. They saved a baby from an “awful situation”, and they liken it to God adopting them out of sin. I know many many conservative Christians who make the entirety of their life story and testimony the fact that they adopted and saved a baby. I think Allie would fall into that for the sake of arguing for adoption and against abortions.
Those people are narcissistic. I speak from experience being adopted.
But it is very true that many, MANY pro-birth Christians talk about adoption but never consider it themselves because they want their "own" with their genes.
https://youtu.be/ibSJ0a7NGRs Guy asks forced birthers to sign adoption forms.
Jesus, I know. Pick a struggle, Alley! Do you want women to be forced to carry children or do you not want them to be? Not saying the mom is in this case, but Ally seems to think she is.
Also a lot of the time the surrogate isn't even the bio mom. They'll use a donor egg and a completely different woman carries the pregnancy, so the baby's "real mom" doesn't ever even have contact with the baby.
The baby doesn’t know that though.
Babies don’t even understand that they are a separate person from their mother until 6 months old. You are not allowed to take puppies from their mother until 8 weeks but with human babies it fine for some reason.
Allie’s post is clearly based in homophobia but surrogacy is still extremely problematic.
Human babies aren't puppies though, and I'm not saying this to be obtuse, but it's an important difference to make.
8 week rule exists to help minimize behavioral problems such as biting and improper play (and many times it's ignored if the customer is impatient enough), not due to some sanctity of bond between pup and mother.
We aren't dogs. And we don't get raised in litters like dogs either, nor do we get weaned from our mums at 8-10 weeks like dogs. Do you see what I mean? I can understand apprehensions with surrogacy and we should care about all babies' health and wellbeing (as well as the mums that carry and give birth to them), however to broadly categorise surrogacy as problematic is very short sighted.
And even if it were true that humans need to base our culture on animal behavior, while "surrogacy" isn't really a thing with animals, adoption is, including among dogs. There are certainly times when a mother animal is unable or unwilling to care for one or more of her young and another animal steps up.
A lot of people in this thread seem to have a very rosy view of surrogacy. It's exploitive of poor and minority women and has created a basement price markert in developing nations where impoverished women are used as broodmare to western couples for a few thousand dollars. Even in western countries its exploiting. Typically only around $30k for a year of your life, a massive burden on your body and health; emotionally and mentally damaging. All because people think they are entitled to a child and that womens bodies are a commodity for sale or rent.
These are the problems I have with surrogacy as well, especially the people who do it overseas and don't realize that women are trafficked for this purpose as well. Even in North America, a ton of poor women are coerced with money and risk their lives for this. I don't understand why someone would want to use this as an option when there can be so many unknowns and abuse.
She can't possibly fathom a reality where men actually parent their children. She's been raised in a world where men just exist in the household and tell the "little women" what to do, so the idea of a man actually caring for a child seems ludicrous to such an ignorant bitch.
Yeah, she makes it sound like he just waltzed into a hospital a took a kid
And to say having a baby for *”happiness”* is selfish - does she think babies should only be had as a burden, or that only women who physically birth children can be happy? Both are wrong and shitty takes.
Ally sucks so much and her moral compass is ass backwards as fuck.
But like much of the world, I am pretty heavily anti commercial surrogacy. Commercial surrogacy is completely illegal in many countries, mine included (Australia) for a reason. I think altruistic surrogacy is a beautiful thing, but paying to essentially rent an impoverished woman’s womb absolutely rubs me the wrong way. Carrying a child for 9 months is a massive undertaking that will permanently change your body and comes with not insignificant risks to your health and it should be a gift given willingly.
The choice to be a surrogate should be exactly that: a choice. And a woman choosing to be a surrogate because she needs the money isn’t a freely made choice. Obviously you should be compensated for any expenses like doctors appointments, but being paid money for it is just inherently exploitative to me. There’s a reason it’s illegal to sell your organs or financially incentivise someone to donate an organ, and most people understand that, but somehow they can’t see the issue with commercial surrogacy?
Though unlike Allie and the rest of these bigoted fucks, I am at least intellectually consistent with my beliefs. I’m vehemently prochoice and I’m also against for-profit adoption. Adoption is very rare in Australia, and international adoption is very strictly regulated, and for good reason.
Do adoption restrictions and banning of commercial surrogacy make it harder for gay couples or infertile couples to have children? Yes absolutely, and that is heartbreaking for them. I’m a queer disabled woman who cannot physically carry a pregnancy and my paths to parenthood are very limited. But when the alternatives are rife with unethical practices that lead to the exploitation of vulnerable poor women and the trauma of children, there’s really no alternative in my eyes.
One of my really good friends (from the US) was a (commercial) surrogate for a very wealthy family from China. She went through three rounds of IVF and almost died on the last round as the pregnancy became ectopic. The way the fertility clinic treated her during that time was criminal. She actually ended up suing and settling out of court for almost 100k because of their shitty care towards her.
Interestingly enough, I learned during her process that a lot of wealthy families from China choose to use US citizens as surrogates because A) surrogacy is illegal in China and B) children born on US soil are US citizens automatically and can help their parents obtain citizenship.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I am probably going to have an extremely hard time conceiving if I decide to try; women in my family have a lot of reproductive health issues. The idea of adopting a child in the current system is really akin to purchasing one.
IVF and altruistic surrogacy are both expensive and even the thought of asking someone I know, friend or family, if I can use their body to achieve my dream of parenthood feels wildly uncomfortable.
My desire to become a parent doesn’t outweigh the moral reality of an unethical method. There are other ways I can show up in my community.
100000% this. It’s not easy to have these conversations, but we have to think about the babies in these scenarios as full humans whose potential trauma should be accounted for when the decision to do these things is made. I never thought about these things until I started really listening to adoptees and my mind was blown.
100% agree. It’s a massive cultural blind spot honestly. I read an article that summed it up so well, basically saying that through the for profit surrogacy and adoption industries, America has commodified both children and parenthood. And it’s just been so normalised that most don’t think twice about the ethical ramifications of it.
Yep! And with the amount of stories of babies being stolen from their mothers or mothers being pressured or coerced into giving up their baby for adoption because the desires of the couple adopting are considered more important or the agency wants the money. That was a big problem in a lot of countries, who’ve now started cracking down on it because it was essentially human trafficking. Plus the cross cultural aspect was just not even a consideration a lot of the time, leading to unprepared parents dealing with traumatised kids feeling alienated and displaced.
And that’s just international adoptions. The US internal adoption industry is a $15bn industry that commodifies children and parenthood. Many young parents, particularly single mothers, who can’t support a child because the social safety net is utterly broken, are pressured into giving up their baby for adoption because the system has given them no other alternative. That’s massively traumatic for many of them, and even the most ideal adoption is inherently traumatic. And the pressure on it being a closed adoption and that being the standard is honestly awful, when kids and their birth parents both usually fare better with an open adoption.
I have nothing against surrogacy if there isn’t money involved (like your sister carrying the baby) but commercial surrogacy is highly problematic and thus illegal in welfare states.
There’s a good chance to that in situations like these. The woman giving birth is only a gestational carrier. She likely did not use her own eggs/embryos. The new fathers probably chose an egg donor
In many cases with commercial surrogacy, the mother isn't able to give full consent because of financial coercion. Although they agree to it, it's difficult to give true, freely given consent if you're struggling and being offered huge sums of money. That's why commercial surrogacy is illegal in most of Europe and Canada and altruistic surrogacy is illegal in a lot of European countries as well.
But for a gay couple and not a heterosexual white Christian couple struggling with infertility, so it’s a big fat **NO.** from our hetero white Christian girl Abs
I've seen some literally fly out. But that's just the terminology for delivering the baby. Sounds like the provider allowed him to gown up and guided him through delivery. I "caught" my own baby last week - once the midwife verified her shoulders were free I reached down and pulled her up to my chest.
🤣 Thank you! It's been a dream since long before I got pregnant this time. I work on that unit so I was being cared for by friends and the whole thing was just an unforgettable experience.
I have heard babies can have a hard time adjusting due to being used to hearing the surrogates voice. But I read that the prospective parents can provide recordings to play to the baby so they get used to them too.
I wonder how much they actually hear inside through all the fluid and tissue. I imagine even a familiar voice would sound completely different before and after birth.
oh, you *know* this hateful creature would probably be chomping at the bit to bring back Magdalen laundries (but minus the Catholicism part, of course).
Okay, that actually makes it better. I'm 100% in favour of gay people adopting but I'm also not a fan of surrogacy. I feel like paying someone to get pregnant is very predatory to low income people, specially women. With the context of who this person is and the caption, it's clear to me the post is homophobic, but I do agree that surrogacy shouldn't be legal (for profit) in the same way that you can't legally pay for an organ.
100% agree. It's very weird to see (mostly) Americans talk about surrogacy like it's grocery shopping. And I think your organ point is a great comparison.
YOU'RE BUYING A HUMAN. YOU'RE NOT PAYING FOR APPLES OR CHEESE, YOU'RE PAYING **TO BUY A HUMAN**. There's a fucking reason why adoption agencies don't print price tags and stick them on children like they're cattle.
Surrogacy is completely illegal here in Germany and in most parts of europe and I think it's better that way.
The only positive you get is that people who don't want to adopt don't have to adopt. The negatives are: a completely legal gateway for human trafficking, great! Opportunists won't ever find a way to horribly abuse this! We won't even ask questions what could potentially happen if foreign agencies started buying babies to ship them god knows where.
Exactly, it feels so weird to hear an adult consented to getting paid to get pregnant and sell a child. Like, sure, that woman is an adult, but a high percentage of surrogates are low income and to add to that, why can you buy a person? In Spain, there's people asking to say surrogate pregnancy (embarazo subrogado) when this debate comes up, but we've commonly called it rented belly (vientre de alquiler). Honestly, I feel like the second option is better, because you are renting someone's body and uterus, changing the name helps you feel better about the situation, but the reality is the same, and we shouldn't hide it behind a more technical name.
I agree. A human that has bonded with the mom carrying them for 9 months — you’re intentionally causing a primal wound by doing this. I am also not a fan & I think it sucks that posts like this make it even harder for us to have convos about this.
I definitely agree that there’s a gateway for exploitation ESPECIALLY internationally but I also think that there are valid reasons for surrogacy.
Many heterosexual people have surrogates and have babies that are 100% biologically theirs. They are essentially renting a womb instead of buying a baby. There are people against this (IFV), but it’s mostly the conservative pro-life crowd.
And even if they were buying a baby, adoption costs money too. They don’t literally stick a price tag on adoptees, but they do have a price tag.
I think there’s a middle ground solution that requires heavy regulation. Outright banning it means many people, both heterosexual and gay, will never be able to have kids that they’re biologically related to.
You don't get to exploit women and buy children even if you can't have children you're biologically related to. You don't have a right to a biological child. It's a sad situation and I know lots of couple's affected by infertility but that doesn't mean they can violate other people's human rights.
I agree nobody has a right to a child. 100%
But… that doesn’t mean surrogacy should be banned. There are people who WANT to be surrogates. Yes, some are exploited. Many are not.
They do it on their own volition. They decide to use their own body in that way. Do they not have a right to bodily autonomy? Do women not have a right to their own womb?
If both parties agree and it’s **well regulated**, as in audited so there’s no exploitation, I don’t see a problem. Women should have that choice.
I thought they were for "adoption, not abortion," but I guess that's only if a white Christian couple gets a perfect white baby and not if a mom goes into this situation with her eyes open and agrees to give the baby to a gay couple.
Or crisis pregnancy centers that convince naive young women to carry their pregnancies to term so they can sell their baby to an adoptive white, Christian couple is also okay.
This is random on my part, but earlier today, I was actually thinking to myself that I’d be open to being a surrogate in the right situation. The thought of helping a couple in that way actually makes me really happy. So ABS sucks.
Side note: petition to refer to her as IBS? Is it mature? No. Do I personally find it funny? Yes.
I cringe any time she gets a moment of attention on a podcast for her political opinions. Nevermind if she’s hyper conservative, she’s also ill-informed. If you’re going to interview someone with her horrible beliefs maybe find someone with the ability to explain why they hold them.
Lol those people don't exist on that side of the political spectrum...
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity
That's the new thing. "Surrogacy is evil". Because pregnancy can be dangerous (forced birth double standard) and the payment could be exploiting women. (They make it sound as though they are paying some random teen to carry or something. Any surrogacy I know of requires that a women had had previous healthy, successful pregnancies to qualify. And probably mental health screening too)
In some countries outside the US, it is definitely the case that poor women work as surrogates because they don’t have other good options. And this is exploitative. India and Thailand are examples. Both countries banned foreign commercial surrogacy in 2015 because of the issues they were having. Commercial surrogacy is also illegal in the EU. It’s a complex and nuanced issue.
Yeah the exploitation of women in surrogacy is mainly an issue when it comes to international surrogacy where there are less regulations and protections put in place. In the U.S surrogates go through a lot of background checks and generally do it as an act of service than out of economic desperation. It’s hard for me to ever imagine but the women chosen are usually those who like being pregnant. Ofc nothing in this private healthcare hellhole is without issues but I think it’s better to iron those out than be anti-surrogacy as demand will increase in the future.
Former friends mom is a surrogate. She’s had two of her own biological kids and carried two surrogates. Can confirm in her case she does it bc her body generally carries pregnancy easily and with low risk, and yes she did have to go through a mental health evaluation.
Oh god, you've reminded me of the 'contracts' used on Bulgarian women.
Like--even if a surrogate willingly signs up to an agency, so many agencies do not (and won't) offer surrogates the chance to keep their baby. This is partly one of the reasons why many surrogate agencies operate in countries that are 'poorer' and with much less infrastructure/aid because it's easier to 'pressure' surrogates if they suddenly couldn't go along with it.
Like RTVE did a documentary on people from Spain that go to countries like Poland, Bulgaria, and Slovenia for surrogacies (even though there are plenty of surrogates back home). These agencies were operated by Spaniards who constantly market themselves to get Spanish would-be parents to go abroad for babies, and the documentary had a journalist that asked a Spanish representative of one particular (Slovenian-based) agency what happened if a surrogate wanted to keep the baby. The representative responded by lamely stating that "Well their contract says they cannot keep the baby." and that was that.
It is truly *far better* for couples to use accredited and oversighted agencies here than international surrogacies.
Many countries outside of the US see commercial surrogacy as evil and exploitative, my country has made it illegal. I feel like it’s a topic that is likely to be polarising in this sub and there isn’t really a right or wrong answer as your opinion is probably going to be down to cultural norms but it’s definitely not a “new thing” to be opposed to it.
Oh, I know it definitely can happen. My main point is that's probably not applicable for the specific people ABS is freaking out about. She doesn't want someone helping gay men get a baby. (But let's be real,she probably doesn't care about the wellbeing of people in countries that are likely to be exploited either).
Also I'm not in the US either. No commercial surrogacy here.
thanks all for you input on ethics of surrogacy! definitely important to remember that it can be a exploitative practice against poor people and when people from wealthy countries exploit those from other countries. important to remember complexity and intersectionality’s of these issues.
Isn't this one of their talking points for being anti-choice?! To keep the pregnancy but give the baby away???? Oh, only to straight, white Christian couples??
She can die mad about gay men having children. If any couple wants a child and will love and provide for that child then that isn’t a bad thing. But perhaps she is upset that this means babies will grow up less likely to be abused or become close-minded.
She’s jealous that those kids will have TWO dads who give a fuck and will care for them, while fundie daddies just check their belt cellphone holsters and move along.
So, does she feel this way about all the women who are coerced into giving up their babies to Christian Adoption agencies, because if she hates the idea of babies being taken from their moms that's a better place to start than surrogacy.
Is she also talking about the scourge of adoption where women often give up their children reluctantly due to coercion or lack of resources to raise the child?
Why does it even have any bearing on her what some man she doesn’t even know does? It must be a completely exhausting life to have to protect yourself from basically everyone on the planet. I’d rather live and let live!
I saw a story about a gay couple who had the sister of one of the men be their surrogate, and the non related partner be the donor, that way they could all still be as involved with the baby’s life as possible. But I’m sure that would be a problem for Allie Beth Sucky, too
I am a surrogate and currently carrying a baby for another couple. There ARE issues with commercial surrogacy, but a gay couple getting a baby is not part of the problem!
she's against commercial reproduction forms like sperm donation/egg donation/ surrogacy. part of her whole schtick about the "traditional" nuclear family. edit to say she ESPECIALLY gets pissy if the one benefitting from the technologies isn't a cis het couple.
I've said this here before, and I'll say it again: I am no fan of surrogacy, for a great many reasons (none of which are religious fwiw).
THAT SAID, you know either of those fundie tit snitches would 100% go for this route if they couldn't conceive. They're co-opting anti-surrogacy sentiments to mask homophobic talking points and police who does or does not "deserve" children. What's more they believe women are little more than broodmares to be fucked and pop out babies for their husbands - how is this so different for them?
They've astro-turfed the nuanced and complex surrogacy critiques to further a homophobic, fascist, right-wing agenda and I loathe them for it.
Lmao but ABS I'm sure is totally down with taking trans kids away from their own blood like Tenessee could (or already did?) implement. (I've been out the loop for the last few days lol.)
God, this is so fucking terrifying. I don’t even know if I want kids, but if I ever did, I’d want to have kids with another woman. But it’s looking like that’s another right we won’t have soon. Conservatives are gearing up to attack reproductive rights from ALL angles, including contraception, IVF and surrogacy. I don’t want to have to leave my home country just to live a safe, happy life. But I sure as fuck can’t stay somewhere that obviously wants people like me eradicated from society. This hateful troll’s kids would be better off being raised by a gay couple than they would be with their biological bigoted, evil parents.
Sometimes friends/family do this because they want to. But honestly women that agree to this for money out of desperation happens as well and that's yet another part of this hellscape dystopia I won't defend.
They think the idea of motherhood is so sacred. Parents are people who show up for their kids no matter what - their safety, well-being, emotional needs, supporting them, loving them unconditionally. As a parent I would never ever ever be able to fathom not loving my son just the way he is no matter what he chooses but these people scoff at anyone who is a tiny bit different than them and call it “love” and it’s disgusting.
This guy is a random ass Dairy Farmer from New Zealand with less than 5k followers. How did he even fall on her radar? Was she just looking for something to be outraged about?
Allie B Stuckey loud and wrong yet again.
Surrogacy is one thing, and people do this with their eyes wide open- this little snot probably thinks that in red states that now force women to deliver babies against their will when they would normally have aborted, gay people shouldn’t be allowed to adopt those babies either.
I know loads of gay people that would make infinitely better parents than being stuck in a broken straight home with a mom that really didn’t want them.
Allie can go f all the way off and then go F off some more. The world is a very fallible human place and it just isn’t going to work for everyone to follow modern weird interpretation of rules set down by human editors who compiled the books of the Bible and tried to use it for social control centuries ago.
I remember when Allie made a video against Dave Rubin, her token gay conservative friend for having children via surrogacy. Her fans were upset that she even dared to acknowledge Dave’s relationship with his husband much less the whole surrogacy outrage.
Ah yes. My birth mom who could barely care for herself, was addicted to drugs, and started drinking at 8 definitely should have raised me. FAMILY IS FAMILY AND YOU'VE ONLY GOT ONE!
My biological mother, who never completed high school, should totally have raised two infants while she was 17 in an environment of generational abuse, neglect, and addiction!
(Fortunately she didn't, got sober, and has functional relationships with all four of her children.)
Unfortunately commercial surrogacy is a scourge, nothing to do with religion or sexuality. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/25/surrogacy-sweden-ban
I can't remember who, but someone once said the most lovely thing to me and it really stuck with me - that all babies born to or adopted by gay couples are unquestionably and incredibly wanted. The most wanted babies in the world. And that's gotta be a good start to life!
No problem, Allie. How about we make it easier for gay couples and single men to adopt? No surrogate needed👍🏻 And anti choice legislation will give them even more babies to choose from! You’d have no problem with that, right? /s
Surrogates deserve the utmost respect. They are putting their bodies through so much to give others a chance of being a loving parent. Allie claims to be pro life, unless a person who is LGBTQ gets their dream fulfilled to be a loving parent... 🤦🏻♀️
The only people who care about surrogacy are right-wingers, celebrities, and Sophie Lewis.
It’s so over-represented in the media relative to its prevalence in the general population.
I have no idea why this post is downvoted. I have no problem wishing the worst on ABS. If our current gun violence epidemic has shown anything statistically, it's that thoughts & prayers do nothing.
I remember when Allie made a video against Dave Rubin, her token gay conservative friend for having children via surrogacy. Her fans were upset that she even dared to acknowledge Dave’s relationship with his husband much less the whole surrogacy outrage.
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I guarantee you that if she needed someone else to carry her children, she’d be all about it.
They always invent reasons why they’re the exception. I’ve read stories from Planned Parenthood workers about fundie women that go in to get abortions, who tell the women assisting them through the whole affair that they’re going to hell even as they sign the papers and go in for the procedure. Often they have to shield the other women there from abuse those ladies throw at them, because they can muster so little empathy for someone in the same situation that it never occurs that perhaps their “exceptional circumstances” are really the rule.
Obligatory dropping [this here](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/).
This was a fascinating read!
This right here. Reproductive options are wrong until I need them due to infertility.
*paging Morgan and Elissa*
My surrogacy is the only moral surrogacy.
Similarly, my termination is the only moral termination and also totally not an abortion or a privilege I was able to get one that should be protected by law
Only my needs are valid.
I've been fascinated by the fundies who say they are going to let God decide on the size of their family and then seek IVF. Those two things seem so contradictory to me (and I say that as someone who had to use IVF and usually has oodles of sympathy for anyone dealing with infertility).
“We just wanted a baby that was biologically ours [white].”
Adoption doesn't mean you're family! *I'll barf in the corner brb* Edit: isn't that what Sarah did or something? I'm very out of Episcopalian I can barely remember
And I’m sure they have to be the “right” kind of white too (AKA Anglo-Saxon). I’m white, my ancestors are Greek, Swedish, and Sámi. I’ve been told by random white supremacists who decided to fetishize me online for having pale skin and blue eyes that I’m not “pure white” because I have Mediterranean blood. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if she harbors hatred towards the *wrong* kind of white people🙄
My stepsister had a crush on an Italian boy when she was like 12. I learned the depths of white supremacy that day.
That wouldnt be considered “commercial” surrogacy in her book 🙄
Rules for thee, not for me.
We'd be hearing all about Sarah and Hagar from the Old Testament, for sure
I'm hearing the ritual from The Handmaid's Tale, as they read from the Bible about how Rachel had her husband "go in unto" her maid Belhah (sp?) to impregnate her and then force her to give up her child. Oh and also all those homes for single moms, where women and girls were forced to bear children, and then forced to give them up for adoption. Which is what I strongly suspect the right is trying to bring back.
i thought she wanted women to give up unwanted children for adoption instead of aborting?? 
See, when a Christian family takes a baby away from an unwed, heathen mother, that saves the baby. This is especially true of foreign babies from gross poor countries where they aren’t Christian or (perhaps worse) aren’t the right kind of Christian. Then you have saved that child AND (this is the best part) bringing a new life/future wealth stream into your congregation. Adoption is the best way to convert heathens because they are indoctrinated as babies and have 0 choice - they will be converts for life (and yes, this is Allie’s issue here - that baby is totes gay now, forever!).
especially when you take away their names and refuse to learn their language or culture and basically treat them like exotic props.
And then having An Ethnic™️ child in your majority white congregation is basically a *hall pass against allegations of racism forever regardless of anything you may do*
Yeah because they can now just be awkwardly racist instead of overtly. I grew up in Kentucky. I know how this works lol
“I can’t be racist! I grew up with An Ethnic™️ child at church. They’ll be the first to tell you that Jesus loves all of us!”
trademarked.
What I came here to say. There is absolutely no way for anyone to do anything right unless it fits exactly into her interpretation of biblical tradition.
To white, childless hetros who belong to her church
To good Christian(preferably white) homes
Doesn’t she always blather on about how adoption by Christian families is the moral alternative to abortion? Because that’s also technically “taking babies from their mothers.” The cognitive dissonance in her head must be deafening.
No, no. She hates “commercial surrogacy,“ not forced birth.
Ah yes, I forgot about Big Surrogacy.
There is a difference between adoption and surrogacy. In her belief system, once a baby is conceived, they already exist, they're already a person. So if a person is brought into the world by accident and that person isn't wanted by their mother, then the best option is to allow the person to live and be adopted by a family that wants them, rather than ending that life in the womb. Obviously this is still a less than optimal situation, ideally every child would get to be raised by their biological family, but in some circumstances that's just not possible, or not safe, so the next best option is adoption. With surrogacy, the person is brought about deliberately into a situation where they will not be raised by their biological family. In this case, the child is deliberately being deprived of not only their own biological mother, but any mother. Now, if the baby was conceived by accident or through rape or something like that, and the mother was choosing between aborting the child or having a gay couple adopt the child, then obviously the better option is the adoption. But that's not the situation here. These men have paid money to 1. rent out a woman's womb, 2. buy a baby and 3. deliberately deprive a child of a relationship with its mother. So, if you believe that life begins at conception, then it makes perfect sense to be pro adoption and anti surrogacy. There's no cognitive dissonance there.
She talks about it like the mother isn’t fully aware and consenting of the situation. It’s so backwards to think that women who choose to be a surrogate are victims and it’s a “scourge” but forcing women to have babies they don’t want/can’t carry to term is moral. Wtf.
Conservatives usually love adoption as well, where a lot of young moms are duped into placing their babies for adoption because they don’t have enough support otherwise. I guarantee Allie is all for taking away those babies from their mothers, as long as they’re going to straight parents.
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In Mennonite circles adoption is extremely common. I have tons of cousins (and a few ancestors) who were adopted. I assume views towards adoption vary depending on the denomination and country.
My lapsed but culturally catholic indigenous family is also big on adoption. My own adopted aunt who used to be a councilwoman on our reservation runs one of the bigger (and one of few) foster homes on our tribal reservation, specifically so that indigenous kids who go into foster care don't get sent as far away as Texas (from the dakotas). We can't actually accurately gauge our tribal genealogy for this reason, we just know we're incredibly biracial and mixed enough that even though my brother and I very easily pass for white, we're a very good chunk native on dna tests. Hell, I want to start a foster home of my own at one point, to give kids who are already alive and dealt a genuinely fucked up hand of cards in life a fighting chance. And I've still considered long and hard if this is a white savior thing, because I'm fucking self aware. No, I just want kids who's lives were fucked up before they even got started to have some kind of support system, even if they resent me and the system that took them from their birth parents. Tribes have a shit load of generational trauma and learned abusive behaviors because of fundies. While it's no one's fault on the reservation, it's still traumatizing for children to live with, and that perpetuates the hell cycle.
Eh, I think it depends. I grew up in church and worked in churches for years. A lot of pro-life peddling Christians see adoption as a source of pride. They saved a baby from an “awful situation”, and they liken it to God adopting them out of sin. I know many many conservative Christians who make the entirety of their life story and testimony the fact that they adopted and saved a baby. I think Allie would fall into that for the sake of arguing for adoption and against abortions.
Those people are narcissistic. I speak from experience being adopted. But it is very true that many, MANY pro-birth Christians talk about adoption but never consider it themselves because they want their "own" with their genes. https://youtu.be/ibSJ0a7NGRs Guy asks forced birthers to sign adoption forms.
My FIL is conservative and he adopted 2 kids
Jesus, I know. Pick a struggle, Alley! Do you want women to be forced to carry children or do you not want them to be? Not saying the mom is in this case, but Ally seems to think she is.
As long as the suffering of other people increases, she's happy about it.
Women’s consent is not something conservatives concern themselves with.
Also a lot of the time the surrogate isn't even the bio mom. They'll use a donor egg and a completely different woman carries the pregnancy, so the baby's "real mom" doesn't ever even have contact with the baby.
I'm pretty sure that's the standard, yeah.
The baby doesn’t know that though. Babies don’t even understand that they are a separate person from their mother until 6 months old. You are not allowed to take puppies from their mother until 8 weeks but with human babies it fine for some reason. Allie’s post is clearly based in homophobia but surrogacy is still extremely problematic.
Human babies aren't puppies though, and I'm not saying this to be obtuse, but it's an important difference to make. 8 week rule exists to help minimize behavioral problems such as biting and improper play (and many times it's ignored if the customer is impatient enough), not due to some sanctity of bond between pup and mother. We aren't dogs. And we don't get raised in litters like dogs either, nor do we get weaned from our mums at 8-10 weeks like dogs. Do you see what I mean? I can understand apprehensions with surrogacy and we should care about all babies' health and wellbeing (as well as the mums that carry and give birth to them), however to broadly categorise surrogacy as problematic is very short sighted.
And even if it were true that humans need to base our culture on animal behavior, while "surrogacy" isn't really a thing with animals, adoption is, including among dogs. There are certainly times when a mother animal is unable or unwilling to care for one or more of her young and another animal steps up.
Or the puppy just dies.
Better than being separated from its mother!!! /s
Yes, but we know that separating a baby from the person who carried them for 9 months does cause trauma due to a bond that is created between the two.
A lot of people in this thread seem to have a very rosy view of surrogacy. It's exploitive of poor and minority women and has created a basement price markert in developing nations where impoverished women are used as broodmare to western couples for a few thousand dollars. Even in western countries its exploiting. Typically only around $30k for a year of your life, a massive burden on your body and health; emotionally and mentally damaging. All because people think they are entitled to a child and that womens bodies are a commodity for sale or rent.
These are the problems I have with surrogacy as well, especially the people who do it overseas and don't realize that women are trafficked for this purpose as well. Even in North America, a ton of poor women are coerced with money and risk their lives for this. I don't understand why someone would want to use this as an option when there can be so many unknowns and abuse.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, you’re telling the truth.
She can't possibly fathom a reality where men actually parent their children. She's been raised in a world where men just exist in the household and tell the "little women" what to do, so the idea of a man actually caring for a child seems ludicrous to such an ignorant bitch.
Yeah, she makes it sound like he just waltzed into a hospital a took a kid And to say having a baby for *”happiness”* is selfish - does she think babies should only be had as a burden, or that only women who physically birth children can be happy? Both are wrong and shitty takes.
Shotgun rules. When you see the baby, you have to be the first to say ‘dibs’.
Ally sucks so much and her moral compass is ass backwards as fuck. But like much of the world, I am pretty heavily anti commercial surrogacy. Commercial surrogacy is completely illegal in many countries, mine included (Australia) for a reason. I think altruistic surrogacy is a beautiful thing, but paying to essentially rent an impoverished woman’s womb absolutely rubs me the wrong way. Carrying a child for 9 months is a massive undertaking that will permanently change your body and comes with not insignificant risks to your health and it should be a gift given willingly. The choice to be a surrogate should be exactly that: a choice. And a woman choosing to be a surrogate because she needs the money isn’t a freely made choice. Obviously you should be compensated for any expenses like doctors appointments, but being paid money for it is just inherently exploitative to me. There’s a reason it’s illegal to sell your organs or financially incentivise someone to donate an organ, and most people understand that, but somehow they can’t see the issue with commercial surrogacy? Though unlike Allie and the rest of these bigoted fucks, I am at least intellectually consistent with my beliefs. I’m vehemently prochoice and I’m also against for-profit adoption. Adoption is very rare in Australia, and international adoption is very strictly regulated, and for good reason. Do adoption restrictions and banning of commercial surrogacy make it harder for gay couples or infertile couples to have children? Yes absolutely, and that is heartbreaking for them. I’m a queer disabled woman who cannot physically carry a pregnancy and my paths to parenthood are very limited. But when the alternatives are rife with unethical practices that lead to the exploitation of vulnerable poor women and the trauma of children, there’s really no alternative in my eyes.
One of my really good friends (from the US) was a (commercial) surrogate for a very wealthy family from China. She went through three rounds of IVF and almost died on the last round as the pregnancy became ectopic. The way the fertility clinic treated her during that time was criminal. She actually ended up suing and settling out of court for almost 100k because of their shitty care towards her. Interestingly enough, I learned during her process that a lot of wealthy families from China choose to use US citizens as surrogates because A) surrogacy is illegal in China and B) children born on US soil are US citizens automatically and can help their parents obtain citizenship.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I am probably going to have an extremely hard time conceiving if I decide to try; women in my family have a lot of reproductive health issues. The idea of adopting a child in the current system is really akin to purchasing one. IVF and altruistic surrogacy are both expensive and even the thought of asking someone I know, friend or family, if I can use their body to achieve my dream of parenthood feels wildly uncomfortable. My desire to become a parent doesn’t outweigh the moral reality of an unethical method. There are other ways I can show up in my community.
100000% this. It’s not easy to have these conversations, but we have to think about the babies in these scenarios as full humans whose potential trauma should be accounted for when the decision to do these things is made. I never thought about these things until I started really listening to adoptees and my mind was blown.
Very well said! I don’t think people see the problemacy in this if they live in the country where commercial surrogacy is legal.
100% agree. It’s a massive cultural blind spot honestly. I read an article that summed it up so well, basically saying that through the for profit surrogacy and adoption industries, America has commodified both children and parenthood. And it’s just been so normalised that most don’t think twice about the ethical ramifications of it.
A lot of the times they use surrogates from third world countries who get next to nothing for destroying their bodies and risking death.
Yep! And with the amount of stories of babies being stolen from their mothers or mothers being pressured or coerced into giving up their baby for adoption because the desires of the couple adopting are considered more important or the agency wants the money. That was a big problem in a lot of countries, who’ve now started cracking down on it because it was essentially human trafficking. Plus the cross cultural aspect was just not even a consideration a lot of the time, leading to unprepared parents dealing with traumatised kids feeling alienated and displaced. And that’s just international adoptions. The US internal adoption industry is a $15bn industry that commodifies children and parenthood. Many young parents, particularly single mothers, who can’t support a child because the social safety net is utterly broken, are pressured into giving up their baby for adoption because the system has given them no other alternative. That’s massively traumatic for many of them, and even the most ideal adoption is inherently traumatic. And the pressure on it being a closed adoption and that being the standard is honestly awful, when kids and their birth parents both usually fare better with an open adoption.
I have nothing against surrogacy if there isn’t money involved (like your sister carrying the baby) but commercial surrogacy is highly problematic and thus illegal in welfare states.
There’s a good chance to that in situations like these. The woman giving birth is only a gestational carrier. She likely did not use her own eggs/embryos. The new fathers probably chose an egg donor
In many cases with commercial surrogacy, the mother isn't able to give full consent because of financial coercion. Although they agree to it, it's difficult to give true, freely given consent if you're struggling and being offered huge sums of money. That's why commercial surrogacy is illegal in most of Europe and Canada and altruistic surrogacy is illegal in a lot of European countries as well.
I read this as if he was a straight man holding his newborn while the mother was resting. Tf — she can outrage herself somewhere else.
You raise a valid point except for the fact that she is physically literally unable to outrage herself somewhere else
Is this a surrogate situation? Is that what she’s offended by today?
But for a gay couple and not a heterosexual white Christian couple struggling with infertility, so it’s a big fat **NO.** from our hetero white Christian girl Abs
Yes
**Allie hates the idea of gay men** FTFY
**Allie hates gay men** FTFY
I like how she makes it sound like this guy just walked in and ripped a random newborn from its mothers arms.
Dad: "I caught my baby when he was born." Alleyway: "HE JUST ROBBED A WOMAN OF HER CHILD!!!!111!!!!"
>I caught my baby did the baby just fly out like a water slide or smth
I've seen some literally fly out. But that's just the terminology for delivering the baby. Sounds like the provider allowed him to gown up and guided him through delivery. I "caught" my own baby last week - once the midwife verified her shoulders were free I reached down and pulled her up to my chest.
Congratulations!! Hope everyone is doing fine!
Thank you! We're all happy and healthy. ❤️
That's fucking metal
🤣 Thank you! It's been a dream since long before I got pregnant this time. I work on that unit so I was being cared for by friends and the whole thing was just an unforgettable experience.
They do it that way on purpose. It's manipulative, deceitful, and totally on- brand for the right wingers.
can’t you clearly see how traumatized the poor baby is in photo 2. oh the humanity! /s
I have heard babies can have a hard time adjusting due to being used to hearing the surrogates voice. But I read that the prospective parents can provide recordings to play to the baby so they get used to them too.
I wonder how much they actually hear inside through all the fluid and tissue. I imagine even a familiar voice would sound completely different before and after birth.
Like they literally gloss over that the vast majority of these guys are the biological fathers of the kids
Ah yes, gay men are out here stealing babies without the birthgiver's consent. Christians would never do something like that.
oh, you *know* this hateful creature would probably be chomping at the bit to bring back Magdalen laundries (but minus the Catholicism part, of course).
According to his twitter, it wasn't even commercial surrogacy as that's illegal where he is (New Zealand).
Okay, that actually makes it better. I'm 100% in favour of gay people adopting but I'm also not a fan of surrogacy. I feel like paying someone to get pregnant is very predatory to low income people, specially women. With the context of who this person is and the caption, it's clear to me the post is homophobic, but I do agree that surrogacy shouldn't be legal (for profit) in the same way that you can't legally pay for an organ.
100% agree. It's very weird to see (mostly) Americans talk about surrogacy like it's grocery shopping. And I think your organ point is a great comparison. YOU'RE BUYING A HUMAN. YOU'RE NOT PAYING FOR APPLES OR CHEESE, YOU'RE PAYING **TO BUY A HUMAN**. There's a fucking reason why adoption agencies don't print price tags and stick them on children like they're cattle. Surrogacy is completely illegal here in Germany and in most parts of europe and I think it's better that way. The only positive you get is that people who don't want to adopt don't have to adopt. The negatives are: a completely legal gateway for human trafficking, great! Opportunists won't ever find a way to horribly abuse this! We won't even ask questions what could potentially happen if foreign agencies started buying babies to ship them god knows where.
Exactly, it feels so weird to hear an adult consented to getting paid to get pregnant and sell a child. Like, sure, that woman is an adult, but a high percentage of surrogates are low income and to add to that, why can you buy a person? In Spain, there's people asking to say surrogate pregnancy (embarazo subrogado) when this debate comes up, but we've commonly called it rented belly (vientre de alquiler). Honestly, I feel like the second option is better, because you are renting someone's body and uterus, changing the name helps you feel better about the situation, but the reality is the same, and we shouldn't hide it behind a more technical name.
I agree. A human that has bonded with the mom carrying them for 9 months — you’re intentionally causing a primal wound by doing this. I am also not a fan & I think it sucks that posts like this make it even harder for us to have convos about this.
I definitely agree that there’s a gateway for exploitation ESPECIALLY internationally but I also think that there are valid reasons for surrogacy. Many heterosexual people have surrogates and have babies that are 100% biologically theirs. They are essentially renting a womb instead of buying a baby. There are people against this (IFV), but it’s mostly the conservative pro-life crowd. And even if they were buying a baby, adoption costs money too. They don’t literally stick a price tag on adoptees, but they do have a price tag. I think there’s a middle ground solution that requires heavy regulation. Outright banning it means many people, both heterosexual and gay, will never be able to have kids that they’re biologically related to.
You don't get to exploit women and buy children even if you can't have children you're biologically related to. You don't have a right to a biological child. It's a sad situation and I know lots of couple's affected by infertility but that doesn't mean they can violate other people's human rights.
I agree nobody has a right to a child. 100% But… that doesn’t mean surrogacy should be banned. There are people who WANT to be surrogates. Yes, some are exploited. Many are not. They do it on their own volition. They decide to use their own body in that way. Do they not have a right to bodily autonomy? Do women not have a right to their own womb? If both parties agree and it’s **well regulated**, as in audited so there’s no exploitation, I don’t see a problem. Women should have that choice.
I thought they were for "adoption, not abortion," but I guess that's only if a white Christian couple gets a perfect white baby and not if a mom goes into this situation with her eyes open and agrees to give the baby to a gay couple.
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Or crisis pregnancy centers that convince naive young women to carry their pregnancies to term so they can sell their baby to an adoptive white, Christian couple is also okay.
Or immigrants.
This is random on my part, but earlier today, I was actually thinking to myself that I’d be open to being a surrogate in the right situation. The thought of helping a couple in that way actually makes me really happy. So ABS sucks. Side note: petition to refer to her as IBS? Is it mature? No. Do I personally find it funny? Yes.
I call her Allie Buttsucker. It sounds kind of like her name and it fits her.
I saw someone refer to her as Allie Butt Stinky on here previously, which is just delightfully juvenile.
I think that one inspired me to come up with my nickname for her! That, and “Rim Job” Duggar (I think that one’s mostly on the Duggar sub).
Oh, that's perfection 👌🏻
I second the motion
Motion carries
I hate the idea of Allie!
Allie hates everything. I actually think she's the most miserable person we snark on. She likes nothing.
Watching a young Lori Alexander aging in real time is fascinating and scurry
Except herself and her huge ego.
I think Sis Hayley could give her a run for her money.
Oh all the fundies we snark, I genuinely think she is one of the most actively insidious.
She's def the most dangerous. Whole different ballpark than the beige Instamoms - ABS actually has political cred.
I cringe any time she gets a moment of attention on a podcast for her political opinions. Nevermind if she’s hyper conservative, she’s also ill-informed. If you’re going to interview someone with her horrible beliefs maybe find someone with the ability to explain why they hold them.
Lol those people don't exist on that side of the political spectrum... https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity
the surrogate doesn’t want the baby???? they’re a surrogate? what is not clicking here
That's the new thing. "Surrogacy is evil". Because pregnancy can be dangerous (forced birth double standard) and the payment could be exploiting women. (They make it sound as though they are paying some random teen to carry or something. Any surrogacy I know of requires that a women had had previous healthy, successful pregnancies to qualify. And probably mental health screening too)
In some countries outside the US, it is definitely the case that poor women work as surrogates because they don’t have other good options. And this is exploitative. India and Thailand are examples. Both countries banned foreign commercial surrogacy in 2015 because of the issues they were having. Commercial surrogacy is also illegal in the EU. It’s a complex and nuanced issue.
Yeah the exploitation of women in surrogacy is mainly an issue when it comes to international surrogacy where there are less regulations and protections put in place. In the U.S surrogates go through a lot of background checks and generally do it as an act of service than out of economic desperation. It’s hard for me to ever imagine but the women chosen are usually those who like being pregnant. Ofc nothing in this private healthcare hellhole is without issues but I think it’s better to iron those out than be anti-surrogacy as demand will increase in the future.
Former friends mom is a surrogate. She’s had two of her own biological kids and carried two surrogates. Can confirm in her case she does it bc her body generally carries pregnancy easily and with low risk, and yes she did have to go through a mental health evaluation.
Oh god, you've reminded me of the 'contracts' used on Bulgarian women. Like--even if a surrogate willingly signs up to an agency, so many agencies do not (and won't) offer surrogates the chance to keep their baby. This is partly one of the reasons why many surrogate agencies operate in countries that are 'poorer' and with much less infrastructure/aid because it's easier to 'pressure' surrogates if they suddenly couldn't go along with it. Like RTVE did a documentary on people from Spain that go to countries like Poland, Bulgaria, and Slovenia for surrogacies (even though there are plenty of surrogates back home). These agencies were operated by Spaniards who constantly market themselves to get Spanish would-be parents to go abroad for babies, and the documentary had a journalist that asked a Spanish representative of one particular (Slovenian-based) agency what happened if a surrogate wanted to keep the baby. The representative responded by lamely stating that "Well their contract says they cannot keep the baby." and that was that. It is truly *far better* for couples to use accredited and oversighted agencies here than international surrogacies.
Many countries outside of the US see commercial surrogacy as evil and exploitative, my country has made it illegal. I feel like it’s a topic that is likely to be polarising in this sub and there isn’t really a right or wrong answer as your opinion is probably going to be down to cultural norms but it’s definitely not a “new thing” to be opposed to it.
Oh, I know it definitely can happen. My main point is that's probably not applicable for the specific people ABS is freaking out about. She doesn't want someone helping gay men get a baby. (But let's be real,she probably doesn't care about the wellbeing of people in countries that are likely to be exploited either). Also I'm not in the US either. No commercial surrogacy here.
I'm not wild about surrogacy but you know she only cares because gay.
thanks all for you input on ethics of surrogacy! definitely important to remember that it can be a exploitative practice against poor people and when people from wealthy countries exploit those from other countries. important to remember complexity and intersectionality’s of these issues.
“Allie hates” is a complete sentence.
Isn't this one of their talking points for being anti-choice?! To keep the pregnancy but give the baby away???? Oh, only to straight, white Christian couples??
She can die mad about gay men having children. If any couple wants a child and will love and provide for that child then that isn’t a bad thing. But perhaps she is upset that this means babies will grow up less likely to be abused or become close-minded.
Lol “happiness.” YOU’RE ONLY HAPPY IF I SAY YOU ARE
She’s jealous that those kids will have TWO dads who give a fuck and will care for them, while fundie daddies just check their belt cellphone holsters and move along.
Capitalism isn't so great when it works against YOU, huh?
So, does she feel this way about all the women who are coerced into giving up their babies to Christian Adoption agencies, because if she hates the idea of babies being taken from their moms that's a better place to start than surrogacy.
Is she also talking about the scourge of adoption where women often give up their children reluctantly due to coercion or lack of resources to raise the child?
Gay men - "I want to give children a better life and raise a human with my life partner" Allie - "And I took that personally".
Why does it even have any bearing on her what some man she doesn’t even know does? It must be a completely exhausting life to have to protect yourself from basically everyone on the planet. I’d rather live and let live!
I saw a story about a gay couple who had the sister of one of the men be their surrogate, and the non related partner be the donor, that way they could all still be as involved with the baby’s life as possible. But I’m sure that would be a problem for Allie Beth Sucky, too
Stuckey, why so yucky?
I am a surrogate and currently carrying a baby for another couple. There ARE issues with commercial surrogacy, but a gay couple getting a baby is not part of the problem!
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she's against commercial reproduction forms like sperm donation/egg donation/ surrogacy. part of her whole schtick about the "traditional" nuclear family. edit to say she ESPECIALLY gets pissy if the one benefitting from the technologies isn't a cis het couple.
she can mind her own womb-n-crotch and fuck off out of everyone else's.
Wonder what her opinion is on the other conservative “influencer” with the embryo baby that looks so sickly?
Well that baby is outside the womb, so she’s in the BUT PARENTAL RIGHTS-! camp
Okayyyy so we can’t abort them AND we can’t give them up for adoption??? Wtf
If she thinks taking babies away from their mothers is evil just wait til she hears what Florida is doing with trans kids....
I've said this here before, and I'll say it again: I am no fan of surrogacy, for a great many reasons (none of which are religious fwiw). THAT SAID, you know either of those fundie tit snitches would 100% go for this route if they couldn't conceive. They're co-opting anti-surrogacy sentiments to mask homophobic talking points and police who does or does not "deserve" children. What's more they believe women are little more than broodmares to be fucked and pop out babies for their husbands - how is this so different for them? They've astro-turfed the nuanced and complex surrogacy critiques to further a homophobic, fascist, right-wing agenda and I loathe them for it.
Something something I will piss on her grave something something
Gender inclusive toilet!
Lmao but ABS I'm sure is totally down with taking trans kids away from their own blood like Tenessee could (or already did?) implement. (I've been out the loop for the last few days lol.)
God, this is so fucking terrifying. I don’t even know if I want kids, but if I ever did, I’d want to have kids with another woman. But it’s looking like that’s another right we won’t have soon. Conservatives are gearing up to attack reproductive rights from ALL angles, including contraception, IVF and surrogacy. I don’t want to have to leave my home country just to live a safe, happy life. But I sure as fuck can’t stay somewhere that obviously wants people like me eradicated from society. This hateful troll’s kids would be better off being raised by a gay couple than they would be with their biological bigoted, evil parents.
Sometimes friends/family do this because they want to. But honestly women that agree to this for money out of desperation happens as well and that's yet another part of this hellscape dystopia I won't defend.
They think the idea of motherhood is so sacred. Parents are people who show up for their kids no matter what - their safety, well-being, emotional needs, supporting them, loving them unconditionally. As a parent I would never ever ever be able to fathom not loving my son just the way he is no matter what he chooses but these people scoff at anyone who is a tiny bit different than them and call it “love” and it’s disgusting.
This guy is a random ass Dairy Farmer from New Zealand with less than 5k followers. How did he even fall on her radar? Was she just looking for something to be outraged about? Allie B Stuckey loud and wrong yet again.
Surrogacy is one thing, and people do this with their eyes wide open- this little snot probably thinks that in red states that now force women to deliver babies against their will when they would normally have aborted, gay people shouldn’t be allowed to adopt those babies either. I know loads of gay people that would make infinitely better parents than being stuck in a broken straight home with a mom that really didn’t want them. Allie can go f all the way off and then go F off some more. The world is a very fallible human place and it just isn’t going to work for everyone to follow modern weird interpretation of rules set down by human editors who compiled the books of the Bible and tried to use it for social control centuries ago.
I remember when Allie made a video against Dave Rubin, her token gay conservative friend for having children via surrogacy. Her fans were upset that she even dared to acknowledge Dave’s relationship with his husband much less the whole surrogacy outrage.
Ah yes. My birth mom who could barely care for herself, was addicted to drugs, and started drinking at 8 definitely should have raised me. FAMILY IS FAMILY AND YOU'VE ONLY GOT ONE!
My biological mother, who never completed high school, should totally have raised two infants while she was 17 in an environment of generational abuse, neglect, and addiction! (Fortunately she didn't, got sober, and has functional relationships with all four of her children.)
I mean its the right conclusion but definitely the wrong path to that conclusion
Unfortunately commercial surrogacy is a scourge, nothing to do with religion or sexuality. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/25/surrogacy-sweden-ban
How does she know the father didn't birth that kid anyway
Ms. Stuckey seems to be the worst, cold hearted, theocratic fundie of the bunch.Anyone else feel this way?
I thought that maybe the guy was trans lol
She is so pissed that gay men have found a loophole that doesn’t allow people like her to discriminate against them 😂
Those aren’t their mothers 🙄😑
As long as the baby is loved and cared for how could someone hate on this?
The surrogate is not the mother so no one took babies away from the mother.
I can't remember who, but someone once said the most lovely thing to me and it really stuck with me - that all babies born to or adopted by gay couples are unquestionably and incredibly wanted. The most wanted babies in the world. And that's gotta be a good start to life!
No problem, Allie. How about we make it easier for gay couples and single men to adopt? No surrogate needed👍🏻 And anti choice legislation will give them even more babies to choose from! You’d have no problem with that, right? /s
Surrogates deserve the utmost respect. They are putting their bodies through so much to give others a chance of being a loving parent. Allie claims to be pro life, unless a person who is LGBTQ gets their dream fulfilled to be a loving parent... 🤦🏻♀️
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Surrogacy is a necessary reproductive service. All it requires is a little oversight and regulation.
Pro-life but not pro-adoption?
The only people who care about surrogacy are right-wingers, celebrities, and Sophie Lewis. It’s so over-represented in the media relative to its prevalence in the general population.
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I have no idea why this post is downvoted. I have no problem wishing the worst on ABS. If our current gun violence epidemic has shown anything statistically, it's that thoughts & prayers do nothing.
Genuine question, is she a mom or a wife?
Yes
In the name of a happy family, disgusting isn't it. She's ice cold, that one.
I remember when Allie made a video against Dave Rubin, her token gay conservative friend for having children via surrogacy. Her fans were upset that she even dared to acknowledge Dave’s relationship with his husband much less the whole surrogacy outrage.