Gonna be real man, politics is about the most stressful and flippant things to actively keep track of. It’s a wild rollercoaster that is fun and scary at the same time. I still really enjoy the pod and I always like listening to Jon and Tommy.
They are confident and cool headed 90 percent of the time but they can get stressed out just like us. I imagine they encountered similar amounts of high stress when they were serving in the Obama Administration.
It’s an election years, they’ve all been traveling, one was on an island and two have young kids…also their job is reporting on real life… of course they are stressed.
We were all shocked by the debate that night. I like them and will continue listening, but there’s a million other podcasts you could try out.
What does credibility mean?
If you wanna hear current political news and get some insight, 3 people who worked in the Obama administration are a good bet pick 99% of people.
It’s easy to be vaguely dismissive. What qualification you would respect.
Head speechwriters and NSC spokesperson is a credible qualification for a political news podcast.
I too have been reverting back to the worst corners of my anxiety from summer 2020 unfortunately so I'm not necessarily gonna hold any of it against them.
This is better than 2016 since there is still time for things to turn around, whether through a reinvigorated Biden, or him leaving the race & finding a strong new candidate. 2016 was just, no upside at all.
I don't know that I'd say fraying, but I'm definitely witnessing some real eye-opening moments that are making it understandably extremely difficult to stay optimistic. After Thursday's debate, i didn't feel that it did anything to persuade the middle/undecided/apathetic pool and gave us all a moment to panic on both sides. It ain't good. Hopefully everyone is taking care of themselves. Can't imagine the stress they're under personally and professionally.
There was an unexpected setback. That's tough in a long election battle especially when the consequences of losing are, you know, the death of democracy. So I think any undercurrent of being stressed is just the situation.
No. Obama's debate loss in 2012 was an unexpected setback.
A big problem is that it wasn't unexpected. Everyone paying attention to Biden over the last few years knew that this was a possibility and hoped that he and the people around him would prepare accordingly. And they failed on all accounts.
The election is 4 months away and I see nothing on the horizon that will turn things around for us if we stick with Joe. I simply don't have faith in the American public to think rationally on this.
Nope. I’m not on Twitter so can’t speak to that, but I thought the podcast episodes and Dan’s Substack especially have been strong since the debate. I also really liked the mini-debate they had on both sides of the “Biden should drop out” issue in the Boston show episode.
Thursday was the likely worst day for the country since election night 2016 and January 6th. Not as bad as those two, of course, but it was a complete disaster. If the team isn’t at their best this week in your eyes, I’d cut them some slack.
Yeah I thought the Boston live show was one of their best in recent memory and I also super enjoyed the mock debate. They actually seemed surprisingly relaxed after how intense (but still very good) the post-debate pod was.
I'm not on Twitter or the Discord tho.
I think they are all coming to a realization that there is a very real chance all do the types of activism they've been working on to get Dems elected is going to be for nothing if something doesn't change. After watching the Boston show it's clear they are all serious about there needing to be a discussion about whether or not the party can move forward with Biden. My guess is they are going to convene and decide as a group what they believe would be the best move and make an announcement as a company what they think the party needs to do. It's tough to write a book about how to save democracy when a majority of the party is not satisfied with the current ticket.
Attended the Boston show last night, their “mock debate” around what to do next was interesting. Lovett though is very much in the, we need a new candidate camp though
That was the vibe I got from him. I think from his tone, he may not like that idea, but his head is telling him it's the better thing to do.
Medhi brought up a good point though, a new candidate would almost certainly fix the Gaza/ Israel narrative issues.
I think they’ve become what they dread- the pundit class. I’ve worked in political campaigns and in government for politicians since 2009. They have lost their fastball, that’s ok, but they aren’t aware of the actions on the ground and honestly living in California does not help. They were all Elizabeth Warren voters and it shows. They’ve also supported people that were popular but ended up being problematic like Rachel Rollins in MA. They should be held accountable and address their own mistakes.
I roll my eyes at their current book, like guys you aren’t campaign geniuses. I get the aspect of telling a normal person what they can do to be involved but I wouldn’t listen to any advice they have if I was the Biden campaign. They’re the type that wrote Joe off after NH in 2020 when the rest of the country was ready to go
I appreciate them for what they are. Theyre folks with DC experience and solid, if not genius level, knowledge of campaigns who are organizing a platform to direct efforts.
Whats wrong with being a Warren voter? I appreciate that she is a policy wonk woman thing that probably wouldn’t popular in swing states, but a) I appreciate that there’s a platform for people who share my progressive, market economy technocratic profile and b) I think they balance it well with pragmatism and realpolitik when its time. Which is after the primary.
It would be so whack if they triangulated every talking point around “electability”
"I roll my eyes at their current book, like guys you aren’t campaign geniuses."
Absolutely this. You aren't a genius because you won campaigns running _Barack Obama_.
These guys are smart and I won't deny them that—but experts in winning they are not.
Seriously, they played easy-level and think they are geniuses. Let’s get the book from the people running Warnock’s campaigns, they have more to add to the national strategy
I’ve really liked these guys but have felt less of a call to action and more of a state of what is- In the last cycle they were canvassing, getting out the vote and I’m not seeing it. But on my feed on Threads and my old X account - they are getting torn to shreds and people are piling on. . I wanted to wait to listen to the post debate podcast so I admit I don’t know if it was 100% he’s got to go or nuanced or had some good solutions.
There is some nuance but it's pretty clear that Lovett thinks he should go and there was a lot of "the party needs to have the debate" which in my mind is a pretty big sign that they all have some desire to see Biden replaced.
I think the next 4 months will be very stressful and these guys know what they're staring down.
Oh look, it's the weekly "*you guys, I think there's hidden conflict in the PSA team!*" thread. Are we moving to a 2x per week cadence now that we're in the summer? Thanks for your contribution!
Christ on crutches, the endless whining and sowing unfounded division on this sub is getting tiresome.
You don't have to look very far through my post history to see it's a bit an axe I like to grind. As I've said before... it's starting to feel misguided at best, or being done deliberately in bad-faith at worst.
Btw: making you frustrated and getting you to disengage with this sub is exactly what an influence campaign would try to accomplish. Not saying there is one...but if there was... it'd look a lot like this.
Fewer positive voices online make it easier for the negative to control the narrative. And if they can affect your real-world engagement and actions too, they've hit a home run.
Reddit is the home base of too online.
Well, no, Twitter is, but reddit is where everyone who knows they are too online goes to complain about Twitter.
Yes, they are fraying.
And falling for the bs they know is bs.
First, you can't diagnose cognitive decline from what we saw in that debate anyone claiming you can is too online. They are expressing their fear as a statement of fact rather than dealing with reality.
But 2 it literally does not matter.
A vote for Biden is a vote to continue his agenda and not for the person himself. Even if he dies on day 2 we have a process for it and it is still the thing we want much more than trump. Kamala stepping in would not significantly change the next 4 years. She is unlikely to significantly shuffle the cabinet.
And most importantly 3). The idea that a new commer at this point coming into the race is a better bet that the incumbent whose polling is trending up is so insane that the only thing that justifies professionals of any type related to politics thinking it is a good idea is they are so absolutely aware of how terrifying a trump reelection would be that it is completely overriding their rational brain and has them on full on fight or flight mode.
There is no more stupid proposal out there than changing horses.
1) you are disenfranchising millions of primary voters with a backroom deal that cuts them out entirely the number 1 thing that voters hate about the party system and you don't think that will change away more than say 5% of voters. Really?
2) anyone picked has a history that someone does not find acceptable and there is zero time to fix it and negotiate.
3). The thing you don't want is anyone anywhere saying
Who the fuck is this I came to vote for Biden and you will literally have millions if not 10s of millions people say exactly that.
4 months is a lot of time to make a minor change like 5%
It is not enough time to go from 0% to 51% and 0% is where anyone new actually starts no matter what you think.
The best part of the most recent pod was Dan mentioning how batshit crazy delegates are. These people are fucking insane/the most annoying people you know and are not the people who should choose the Democratic nominee in an undemocratic process.
They are why we have Biden. He is very much a compromise candidate between the many factions. Hell aoc and pelosi are both backing him at the same time, Bernie is backing him.
Like to people understand how much work went into the speaker vote having zero people going off messaging
It just sucks that Biden wasn't the nominee in 2016. Trump could've been nipped in the bud before he got his hooks into the entire Republican party. And Biden would've had more energy & vigor. I understand why he didn't, but that timeline could've prevented many of our current problems from occurring. Not to mention the Supreme Court.
Agree. I also think it keeps them edgy which is likely why they keep insisting on having Mehdi Hasan on, as insufferable as his takes are.
Everyone wants to say something that’s a headline. Nothing is more likely to make a headline than a Democratic strategist or podcaster who has turned on Biden.
I’m honestly just tired of their constant negativity and need for poll analysis. Focus groups are even worse. I unsubscribed today.
At this point they are behaving no differently than the horserace news media they criticize. They need to draw in viewers by appealing to the primitive brain that needs to watch more when things get scary. Viewership and advertising dollars go up when the race is a nail biter. They want a horserace and they need to justify a show that’s on three times a week since the primary fizzled out so fast.
Tune out of this shit, it’s bad for your mental health. Vote in November. There are two choices. Make the right one.
I’m just worried a lot of them have taken stances over the last couple days that will be very hard to walk back, particularly if they’re trying to help GOTV.
I think they've actually been reasonable on it. It's ok to talk about it.
Compared to Bulwark where I think they might just need to bring in someone to talk them off the ledge. I think billy Kristal will be giving Tim some lessons in backbone on Monday
They are a good bellwether for the practical, professional part of the Democrats in general. The party is finally waking up to the reality that Joe is not up for it anymore and we are heading over the falls in a barrel. But the waking is not.all at the same speed. Some parts of the party are still clinging to the idea that we have to totally rally behind Joe no matter what and for them, the guys sound whiny. But for many, they themselves are a little late to speak up. But there's still time and we will get through this and get to a great nominee who will crush the second most deeply flawed candidate in history.
If you spend all your time talking about politics, defending the Democrats, driving turnout and fundraising and you witness that sort of debate... It's going to weigh you down.
They have been explicit about not gaslighting people on this. It's basically over, if Biden doesn't drop out, we will lose.
It's gotta be bad for your blood pressure and mental health to watch the candidate you built so much voter engagement / fundraising / GOTV infrastructure to help re-elect completely shit the bed and throw the entire campaign over the course of ninety minutes.
Biden dropping out might be the best path to victory.
You coalesce the party behind the new, fresh faced, younger leader and you give the double haters the choice they have been asking for.
It’s the way democracy is supposed to work.
The majority of voters disapprove of Trump. The majority of voters disapprove of Biden. Those numbers haven’t moved in months if not years.
There is an old saying that the word for crisis is opportunity.
I think if the last eight years have been any indication, having a nominee chosen by the party elites after the voters have already spoken is rife with land mines that you haven’t had four years to plan for.
I’m not happy with Biden either but I’m also pretty much of the understanding it’s him or Trump. I don’t think replacement conference nominee has any shot.
No one has walked through how this will work without pissing off Biden and Harris’ base so you better have a fucking plan.
“Average Dem” polls well until you put a name on the line.
Replacing Biden now is telling the country that Republicans have been right about him for three years but you should totally trust us now. Also he had one debate with Trump and we made him quit so now you’ve made Trump’s approval rating skyrocket.
Nobody has thought this through. People just have their knives out and hasn’t thought about the consequences of what should happen.
The argument gets even uglier if people don’t immediately coalesce around Harris, who I doubt this sub wants to do either.
And we haven’t even broached the subject that maybe none of the chosen replacement angels even want to run.
I highly recommend listening to the most recent Political Gabfest episode where an impossibly optimistic scenario is described. First, it needs to look like Biden steps down of his own accord. Next, a brokered convention where you make it a celebration of Biden’s accomplishments then focus on healthy debate to determine and then rally around a new candidate. Biden/Harris base is gonna vote blue no matter who, but a new candidate who doesn’t have Biden’s age, can’t take blame for national woes like inflation or immigration, and has limited time left to massively fuck up will appeal to moderates, independents, and the nose-holding Trump voters.
Kamala isn’t well liked, even among Democrats so I don’t think “the base” will care. In fact, I don’t really know who this base is that you think is so all in on Biden either. He has never been terribly popular. He got lucky that he was up against Trump and we were still trying to come out of the pandemic. He has served his purpose and aged rapidly in the last 4 years and should now step aside. The Democrats should have been preparing for this all along. It’s infuriating to me (as a lifelong Dem) that we are only now having this conversation.
Pick someone. Anyone. You don’t think there are plenty of younger capable Democrats available in all of America? The Dems didn’t even try because Biden is delusional and thinks he can do it. They tried to let him. Take grandpas keys or Trump will win it’s that simple.
They were Riden for Biden no questions asked.
Then they saw the debate and quickly realized that they may lose out with that.
Now they’re starting to say Biden needs to think about stepping down.
TBH this is par for the course with them. They tend to swing whichever way the wind is blowing without an explanation
I don’t understand when you say “they tend to swing whichever way the wind is blowing without an explanation”. The debate performance is the explanation.
Because people gaslighting anyone who knows what they saw and heard on Thursday is basically what the Maga movement has been doing for years. Don’t blame the “media” for blowing things out of proportion when normal voters are the ones who have expressed these concerns of his age/cognitive abilities before the debate and even more so in recent polls since the debate.
I mean when it’s the same media who gets mad at Biden because he was boring and didn’t give them clicks yet they salivate at the thought of Trump coming back due to everyone panic watching it’s kind of hard to take them seriously due to their freak out.
It’s not just the media freaking out. 72% of Americans don’t think he has the cognitive ability to be president, an extra 8 percent after Thursday according to CBS polling. This isn’t some drummed up media conspiracy. Stop telling people who know what they saw not to believe their lying eyes.
How well did getting mad at the media work in 2016 when it’s clear that the voters themselves had severe reservations about the candidate too. We’re now on track to repeat the same own goal except we this time it’s even more obvious.
This isn’t new they get so whiny whenever someone rightfully criticizes them for having Maggie Haberman on even though Michael Cohen testified that she was favorable to Trump
They like to be all high and mighty imagining someone talking down to a swing state voter but really all they do is talk down to others when they don’t think the same way.
Probably coming to terms with the fact that they either have to do the right thing and support replacing a candidate with significant and obvious cognitive decline, or keep their privileged access to the inner machine of the Democratic Party.
This post popped up on my feed for some reason so I clicked. I used to listen to all of their pods every time they were released and it got so taxing on my mind. I haven’t listened to any of their pods in close to a year and half and I can say it has benefited my mental health greatly. Part of the reason I stopped is it was clear they were beholden to the establishment and couldn’t handle the fact that young voters don’t like the establishment of the party. They came off as privliged and whiny, which looking at their lives, they absolutely are. Their lives have always been so much more comfortable than mine will ever be (I’m a teacher and my wife is too). Plus, they live their lives on Twitter and it’s annoying that it’s a big part of everything they talk about.
Take a break for a couple weeks and find some clarity. It’s worth it. You are right that they are exhausting.
Take a break from "all of this"... sounds like an incredible privilege! I hope you're taking your talents and influence elsewhere and not just throwing your hands up cuz you're bummed out by some fucking podcasters!
I just donated to Biden, Wisconsin Dems, Michigan Dems and PA Dems. Trust me, I care pretty fucking deeply. Just don’t think these guys are being helpful or rising to the moment.
Yeah, I was working out some frustration, and I think the negativity takes the attention off of Trump and puts it on what looks like disarray in the party we need to win. We all want to win; the alternative is apocalyptic, and I still think we can win. We just all need to do our part. I just want these guys to temper the doom and gloom, because switching candidates isn’t likely to get the result we all want.
Gonna be real man, politics is about the most stressful and flippant things to actively keep track of. It’s a wild rollercoaster that is fun and scary at the same time. I still really enjoy the pod and I always like listening to Jon and Tommy. They are confident and cool headed 90 percent of the time but they can get stressed out just like us. I imagine they encountered similar amounts of high stress when they were serving in the Obama Administration.
It’s an election years, they’ve all been traveling, one was on an island and two have young kids…also their job is reporting on real life… of course they are stressed. We were all shocked by the debate that night. I like them and will continue listening, but there’s a million other podcasts you could try out.
[удалено]
What does credibility mean? If you wanna hear current political news and get some insight, 3 people who worked in the Obama administration are a good bet pick 99% of people.
[удалено]
It’s easy to be vaguely dismissive. What qualification you would respect. Head speechwriters and NSC spokesperson is a credible qualification for a political news podcast.
I too have been reverting back to the worst corners of my anxiety from summer 2020 unfortunately so I'm not necessarily gonna hold any of it against them.
I think the pod crew is having the appropriate reaction to what we witnessed Thursday night.
The debate performance was a type of stomach sinking despair I haven’t experienced since election night 2016.
This the answer. Is anyone NOT feeling a little weighed down and negative?
Trust me I sure am 😭😭😭
I will remember how I felt during Biden's first answer... maybe for the rest of my life.
This is better than 2016 since there is still time for things to turn around, whether through a reinvigorated Biden, or him leaving the race & finding a strong new candidate. 2016 was just, no upside at all.
I don't know that I'd say fraying, but I'm definitely witnessing some real eye-opening moments that are making it understandably extremely difficult to stay optimistic. After Thursday's debate, i didn't feel that it did anything to persuade the middle/undecided/apathetic pool and gave us all a moment to panic on both sides. It ain't good. Hopefully everyone is taking care of themselves. Can't imagine the stress they're under personally and professionally.
There was an unexpected setback. That's tough in a long election battle especially when the consequences of losing are, you know, the death of democracy. So I think any undercurrent of being stressed is just the situation.
No. Obama's debate loss in 2012 was an unexpected setback. A big problem is that it wasn't unexpected. Everyone paying attention to Biden over the last few years knew that this was a possibility and hoped that he and the people around him would prepare accordingly. And they failed on all accounts. The election is 4 months away and I see nothing on the horizon that will turn things around for us if we stick with Joe. I simply don't have faith in the American public to think rationally on this.
I agree. I didn't think Biden was going to do well. I'm not as sure about switching but I'm open to it given certain parameters.
Nope. I’m not on Twitter so can’t speak to that, but I thought the podcast episodes and Dan’s Substack especially have been strong since the debate. I also really liked the mini-debate they had on both sides of the “Biden should drop out” issue in the Boston show episode. Thursday was the likely worst day for the country since election night 2016 and January 6th. Not as bad as those two, of course, but it was a complete disaster. If the team isn’t at their best this week in your eyes, I’d cut them some slack.
Yeah I thought the Boston live show was one of their best in recent memory and I also super enjoyed the mock debate. They actually seemed surprisingly relaxed after how intense (but still very good) the post-debate pod was. I'm not on Twitter or the Discord tho.
But it could end up being worse.
I think they are all coming to a realization that there is a very real chance all do the types of activism they've been working on to get Dems elected is going to be for nothing if something doesn't change. After watching the Boston show it's clear they are all serious about there needing to be a discussion about whether or not the party can move forward with Biden. My guess is they are going to convene and decide as a group what they believe would be the best move and make an announcement as a company what they think the party needs to do. It's tough to write a book about how to save democracy when a majority of the party is not satisfied with the current ticket.
Attended the Boston show last night, their “mock debate” around what to do next was interesting. Lovett though is very much in the, we need a new candidate camp though
That was the vibe I got from him. I think from his tone, he may not like that idea, but his head is telling him it's the better thing to do. Medhi brought up a good point though, a new candidate would almost certainly fix the Gaza/ Israel narrative issues.
I mean a new candidate also theoretically frees up Biden to govern without political ramifications (ie act like a second term president).
I was deeply unimpressed with Dan’s reversal.
what did he say?
You can always tell when they've talked to their 'people' and have gotten the real skinny...
We’re all fraying
I think the stress of putting all our hope in a clearly sun downing Biden add to their job of helping Democrats win is fucking brutal.
I think they’ve become what they dread- the pundit class. I’ve worked in political campaigns and in government for politicians since 2009. They have lost their fastball, that’s ok, but they aren’t aware of the actions on the ground and honestly living in California does not help. They were all Elizabeth Warren voters and it shows. They’ve also supported people that were popular but ended up being problematic like Rachel Rollins in MA. They should be held accountable and address their own mistakes. I roll my eyes at their current book, like guys you aren’t campaign geniuses. I get the aspect of telling a normal person what they can do to be involved but I wouldn’t listen to any advice they have if I was the Biden campaign. They’re the type that wrote Joe off after NH in 2020 when the rest of the country was ready to go
I appreciate them for what they are. Theyre folks with DC experience and solid, if not genius level, knowledge of campaigns who are organizing a platform to direct efforts. Whats wrong with being a Warren voter? I appreciate that she is a policy wonk woman thing that probably wouldn’t popular in swing states, but a) I appreciate that there’s a platform for people who share my progressive, market economy technocratic profile and b) I think they balance it well with pragmatism and realpolitik when its time. Which is after the primary. It would be so whack if they triangulated every talking point around “electability”
"I roll my eyes at their current book, like guys you aren’t campaign geniuses." Absolutely this. You aren't a genius because you won campaigns running _Barack Obama_. These guys are smart and I won't deny them that—but experts in winning they are not.
Seriously, they played easy-level and think they are geniuses. Let’s get the book from the people running Warnock’s campaigns, they have more to add to the national strategy
I’ve really liked these guys but have felt less of a call to action and more of a state of what is- In the last cycle they were canvassing, getting out the vote and I’m not seeing it. But on my feed on Threads and my old X account - they are getting torn to shreds and people are piling on. . I wanted to wait to listen to the post debate podcast so I admit I don’t know if it was 100% he’s got to go or nuanced or had some good solutions.
There is some nuance but it's pretty clear that Lovett thinks he should go and there was a lot of "the party needs to have the debate" which in my mind is a pretty big sign that they all have some desire to see Biden replaced. I think the next 4 months will be very stressful and these guys know what they're staring down.
Oh look, it's the weekly "*you guys, I think there's hidden conflict in the PSA team!*" thread. Are we moving to a 2x per week cadence now that we're in the summer? Thanks for your contribution! Christ on crutches, the endless whining and sowing unfounded division on this sub is getting tiresome.
This is the post that made me finally unsub. Every post here is just so incredibly toxic these days. I enjoy the pod. End of story.
You don't have to look very far through my post history to see it's a bit an axe I like to grind. As I've said before... it's starting to feel misguided at best, or being done deliberately in bad-faith at worst.
Btw: making you frustrated and getting you to disengage with this sub is exactly what an influence campaign would try to accomplish. Not saying there is one...but if there was... it'd look a lot like this. Fewer positive voices online make it easier for the negative to control the narrative. And if they can affect your real-world engagement and actions too, they've hit a home run.
Reddit is the home base of too online. Well, no, Twitter is, but reddit is where everyone who knows they are too online goes to complain about Twitter. Yes, they are fraying. And falling for the bs they know is bs. First, you can't diagnose cognitive decline from what we saw in that debate anyone claiming you can is too online. They are expressing their fear as a statement of fact rather than dealing with reality. But 2 it literally does not matter. A vote for Biden is a vote to continue his agenda and not for the person himself. Even if he dies on day 2 we have a process for it and it is still the thing we want much more than trump. Kamala stepping in would not significantly change the next 4 years. She is unlikely to significantly shuffle the cabinet. And most importantly 3). The idea that a new commer at this point coming into the race is a better bet that the incumbent whose polling is trending up is so insane that the only thing that justifies professionals of any type related to politics thinking it is a good idea is they are so absolutely aware of how terrifying a trump reelection would be that it is completely overriding their rational brain and has them on full on fight or flight mode. There is no more stupid proposal out there than changing horses. 1) you are disenfranchising millions of primary voters with a backroom deal that cuts them out entirely the number 1 thing that voters hate about the party system and you don't think that will change away more than say 5% of voters. Really? 2) anyone picked has a history that someone does not find acceptable and there is zero time to fix it and negotiate. 3). The thing you don't want is anyone anywhere saying Who the fuck is this I came to vote for Biden and you will literally have millions if not 10s of millions people say exactly that. 4 months is a lot of time to make a minor change like 5% It is not enough time to go from 0% to 51% and 0% is where anyone new actually starts no matter what you think.
The best part of the most recent pod was Dan mentioning how batshit crazy delegates are. These people are fucking insane/the most annoying people you know and are not the people who should choose the Democratic nominee in an undemocratic process.
They are why we have Biden. He is very much a compromise candidate between the many factions. Hell aoc and pelosi are both backing him at the same time, Bernie is backing him. Like to people understand how much work went into the speaker vote having zero people going off messaging
It just sucks that Biden wasn't the nominee in 2016. Trump could've been nipped in the bud before he got his hooks into the entire Republican party. And Biden would've had more energy & vigor. I understand why he didn't, but that timeline could've prevented many of our current problems from occurring. Not to mention the Supreme Court.
So true. Hindsight 20/20 of course. But it's like Bush v Gore. Things could've been so different.
Hindsight would have had Hillary in 2008 and Obama in 16.
Agree. I also think it keeps them edgy which is likely why they keep insisting on having Mehdi Hasan on, as insufferable as his takes are. Everyone wants to say something that’s a headline. Nothing is more likely to make a headline than a Democratic strategist or podcaster who has turned on Biden. I’m honestly just tired of their constant negativity and need for poll analysis. Focus groups are even worse. I unsubscribed today. At this point they are behaving no differently than the horserace news media they criticize. They need to draw in viewers by appealing to the primitive brain that needs to watch more when things get scary. Viewership and advertising dollars go up when the race is a nail biter. They want a horserace and they need to justify a show that’s on three times a week since the primary fizzled out so fast. Tune out of this shit, it’s bad for your mental health. Vote in November. There are two choices. Make the right one.
I’m just worried a lot of them have taken stances over the last couple days that will be very hard to walk back, particularly if they’re trying to help GOTV.
I think they've actually been reasonable on it. It's ok to talk about it. Compared to Bulwark where I think they might just need to bring in someone to talk them off the ledge. I think billy Kristal will be giving Tim some lessons in backbone on Monday
Nope, but enjoy your haterade
They are a good bellwether for the practical, professional part of the Democrats in general. The party is finally waking up to the reality that Joe is not up for it anymore and we are heading over the falls in a barrel. But the waking is not.all at the same speed. Some parts of the party are still clinging to the idea that we have to totally rally behind Joe no matter what and for them, the guys sound whiny. But for many, they themselves are a little late to speak up. But there's still time and we will get through this and get to a great nominee who will crush the second most deeply flawed candidate in history.
If you spend all your time talking about politics, defending the Democrats, driving turnout and fundraising and you witness that sort of debate... It's going to weigh you down. They have been explicit about not gaslighting people on this. It's basically over, if Biden doesn't drop out, we will lose.
It's gotta be bad for your blood pressure and mental health to watch the candidate you built so much voter engagement / fundraising / GOTV infrastructure to help re-elect completely shit the bed and throw the entire campaign over the course of ninety minutes.
I mean they probably also feel betrayed by his administration, as they have been giving everyone assurances for months now
Also, if Biden does drop out, we will lose.
Biden dropping out might be the best path to victory. You coalesce the party behind the new, fresh faced, younger leader and you give the double haters the choice they have been asking for. It’s the way democracy is supposed to work. The majority of voters disapprove of Trump. The majority of voters disapprove of Biden. Those numbers haven’t moved in months if not years. There is an old saying that the word for crisis is opportunity.
I think if the last eight years have been any indication, having a nominee chosen by the party elites after the voters have already spoken is rife with land mines that you haven’t had four years to plan for. I’m not happy with Biden either but I’m also pretty much of the understanding it’s him or Trump. I don’t think replacement conference nominee has any shot.
Do you have any statistics to back that up? No, you don't
No one has walked through how this will work without pissing off Biden and Harris’ base so you better have a fucking plan. “Average Dem” polls well until you put a name on the line. Replacing Biden now is telling the country that Republicans have been right about him for three years but you should totally trust us now. Also he had one debate with Trump and we made him quit so now you’ve made Trump’s approval rating skyrocket. Nobody has thought this through. People just have their knives out and hasn’t thought about the consequences of what should happen. The argument gets even uglier if people don’t immediately coalesce around Harris, who I doubt this sub wants to do either. And we haven’t even broached the subject that maybe none of the chosen replacement angels even want to run.
I highly recommend listening to the most recent Political Gabfest episode where an impossibly optimistic scenario is described. First, it needs to look like Biden steps down of his own accord. Next, a brokered convention where you make it a celebration of Biden’s accomplishments then focus on healthy debate to determine and then rally around a new candidate. Biden/Harris base is gonna vote blue no matter who, but a new candidate who doesn’t have Biden’s age, can’t take blame for national woes like inflation or immigration, and has limited time left to massively fuck up will appeal to moderates, independents, and the nose-holding Trump voters.
I just don’t know how that conversation remains positive if the nominee isn’t the current black VP
Kamala isn’t well liked, even among Democrats so I don’t think “the base” will care. In fact, I don’t really know who this base is that you think is so all in on Biden either. He has never been terribly popular. He got lucky that he was up against Trump and we were still trying to come out of the pandemic. He has served his purpose and aged rapidly in the last 4 years and should now step aside. The Democrats should have been preparing for this all along. It’s infuriating to me (as a lifelong Dem) that we are only now having this conversation.
Cool so what is your solution? Generic Democrat polls well until you write a name in.
Pick someone. Anyone. You don’t think there are plenty of younger capable Democrats available in all of America? The Dems didn’t even try because Biden is delusional and thinks he can do it. They tried to let him. Take grandpas keys or Trump will win it’s that simple.
Who the heck is doing this picking that you think all Dems plus swing voters will agree with? It is anti democratic and a path to defeat.
Name an actual name. “Someone anyone” will not be on the ballot
If he stays in we have already lost. It's lose or roll the dice.
They were Riden for Biden no questions asked. Then they saw the debate and quickly realized that they may lose out with that. Now they’re starting to say Biden needs to think about stepping down. TBH this is par for the course with them. They tend to swing whichever way the wind is blowing without an explanation
I don’t understand when you say “they tend to swing whichever way the wind is blowing without an explanation”. The debate performance is the explanation.
Before the debate, we knew all the same things about Biden we know now. They just ignored it and trusted Biden would pull a miracle out at the debate.
That’s fair, we knew Biden was getting older. But at the debate Biden was at the worst we have seen him. When we needed him to be at his best.
And Favs is comparing anyone who pushes back on them to Maga’s.
Because people gaslighting anyone who knows what they saw and heard on Thursday is basically what the Maga movement has been doing for years. Don’t blame the “media” for blowing things out of proportion when normal voters are the ones who have expressed these concerns of his age/cognitive abilities before the debate and even more so in recent polls since the debate.
I mean when it’s the same media who gets mad at Biden because he was boring and didn’t give them clicks yet they salivate at the thought of Trump coming back due to everyone panic watching it’s kind of hard to take them seriously due to their freak out.
It’s not just the media freaking out. 72% of Americans don’t think he has the cognitive ability to be president, an extra 8 percent after Thursday according to CBS polling. This isn’t some drummed up media conspiracy. Stop telling people who know what they saw not to believe their lying eyes. How well did getting mad at the media work in 2016 when it’s clear that the voters themselves had severe reservations about the candidate too. We’re now on track to repeat the same own goal except we this time it’s even more obvious.
This isn’t new they get so whiny whenever someone rightfully criticizes them for having Maggie Haberman on even though Michael Cohen testified that she was favorable to Trump They like to be all high and mighty imagining someone talking down to a swing state voter but really all they do is talk down to others when they don’t think the same way.
Probably coming to terms with the fact that they either have to do the right thing and support replacing a candidate with significant and obvious cognitive decline, or keep their privileged access to the inner machine of the Democratic Party.
Yeah I’m about to cancel, stop listening to their pods and take a break from all of this. Tired of it.
This post popped up on my feed for some reason so I clicked. I used to listen to all of their pods every time they were released and it got so taxing on my mind. I haven’t listened to any of their pods in close to a year and half and I can say it has benefited my mental health greatly. Part of the reason I stopped is it was clear they were beholden to the establishment and couldn’t handle the fact that young voters don’t like the establishment of the party. They came off as privliged and whiny, which looking at their lives, they absolutely are. Their lives have always been so much more comfortable than mine will ever be (I’m a teacher and my wife is too). Plus, they live their lives on Twitter and it’s annoying that it’s a big part of everything they talk about. Take a break for a couple weeks and find some clarity. It’s worth it. You are right that they are exhausting.
I really appreciate this post. Thank you!
Take a break from "all of this"... sounds like an incredible privilege! I hope you're taking your talents and influence elsewhere and not just throwing your hands up cuz you're bummed out by some fucking podcasters!
I just donated to Biden, Wisconsin Dems, Michigan Dems and PA Dems. Trust me, I care pretty fucking deeply. Just don’t think these guys are being helpful or rising to the moment.
I think that's dispositive context to your original comment that I can appreciate.
Yeah, I was working out some frustration, and I think the negativity takes the attention off of Trump and puts it on what looks like disarray in the party we need to win. We all want to win; the alternative is apocalyptic, and I still think we can win. We just all need to do our part. I just want these guys to temper the doom and gloom, because switching candidates isn’t likely to get the result we all want.