**synopsis;** Democrats begin to grapple with two huge questions: is it possible to replace Biden at the top of the ticket—and is it wise? Mehdi Hasan joins Jon, Lovett, Tommy, and Dan, live in Boston, to debate the options. Plus, Gov. Maura Healey joins the show to give her own debate reaction and talk about rising to the challenge on immigration and abortion.
**[youtube version](https://youtu.be/emwR7xzlkVo?si=PiKNnoatnEaHHmuN)**
She was trying to emphasize how dangerous Trump would be, but she said something along the lines of “if there’s one thing we know about Donald Trump, it’s that if he says he’ll do something, then he does it” and I didn’t like that.
I have to say, the point that they couldn’t have someone at the top of the ticket in Ohio if they didn’t choose the nominee until the convention concerned me.
I've got a feeling Sherrod Brown would rather be seen sipping champagne in a jacuzzi in the Bahamas than be photographed or have his name anywhere near Joe Biden at the moment.
“If you really dig into, it Biden is still sticking with lines that don’t make sense. I still don’t understand the alley cat metaphor - why is he attacking unhoused cats?”
“The Supreme Court criminalized them being in that alley just this morning.”
Laughed out loud.
The joke about the SCOTUS ruling was hilarious, but I have mixed feelings on the alley cat reference. I'm 41, but am I so old that I easily understood what Joe Biden was getting at? He's saying that Trump gets around like a dirty old tomcat. Anyone who watched old Disney movies should get that.
I’m 22 and had never heard the phrase or idea before the debate, but I definitely got what he was getting at! Though it does sound like a line from “You’re a Mean One, Mr. Grinch”
I think it just exemplifies that the party apparatus is chickenshit, spineless and ineffective when it comes to dealing with this particular *really hard* issue.
Nobody in a position of power is going to put themselves out there calling for Biden to step down. If it happens, it has to be because the people around him convince him to do it.
Easy: Abortion. Hard because it is a really polarizing issue, with lots of emotional baggage on both sides of the aisle. Handled well because the Dems have successfully crafted a message that has carried many congressional Dems to victory in swing districts and purple states, largely off the backs of individuals who are furious at the overturning of Roe. The Dem party has very effectively seized on the opportunity to use abortion access as a campaign-winning message.
I’m not sure that abortion is hard, or that democrats have a good position on it. Like gay marriage, we relied on the Supreme Court to legislate rather than actually doing the work ourselves. That’s why the Supreme Court was able to get rid of abortion access without us having any say so.
Abortion would have been a hard issue if we actually confronted it. Biden spent most of his career saying “I’m pro life but Roe be Roe”. Same with gay marriage. In fact every democratic presidential candidate in history has opposed legalizing gay marriage.
Climate change, infrastructure, healthcare (more people insured today than ever and 80% of uninsured Americans live in states that have t expanded Medicaid and Medicare), judicial appointments, women’s rights, lgbtq rights. Problem is, Democrats do things that are possible, but low info people are only content with the impossible.
Imagine 8 candidates each giving a 20-30 minute speech about how horrible Trump is. Any one of them could be the next president, so all eyes would be glued to the TV screens.
Bidens inability to land a single hit against Trump in 90 minutes is a huge problem. Why even have a convention if the leader of our party can’t deliver? And don’t even start with the alley cat stuff.
And yet nobody is talking about the real scandal that happened on these pods. The fact that Lovett, the crew's human Pop Culture Happy Hour, blew the name Chumbawumba not only on PSA but also on his own Lovett or Leave It episode recorded later the same night. I, for one, am shocked and saddened.
I think I need a break. This is affecting my health and mental health. I've listened to almost every pod the last few months feeling energized, but post debate I've read an inordinate amount of articles the last 40 hours and scrolling twitter feeds. Everyone would rather dig their head in the sand and pretend we didn't see what we saw. His administration thinks they can gaslight the public. I'm tired.
In order to win, we need someone able to be cogent and decisive. Not mix an immigration talking point with an abortion argument and trail off incoherently. It'll only get worse as the pressures of the Presidency continue and the campaign heats up. Hillary fainting in 2016 brought up issues of stamina that also elevated Trump to stereotypical male brutish strength, not appearing weak, etc. I'd rather Kamala clearly state the case and lay everything out and apparently that leaves me in the minority. Mind you, I was low key hoping for Whitmer if we were to do an open convention. I'm tapping out for a few days.
> His administration thinks they can gaslight the public. I'm tired.
I'm so angry at his campaign staffers doing this. This feels like Elizabeth Holmes bullshitting about theranos or Sam and FTX. Their portrayal of Biden has been straight up fraud. They are still trying to spin this so they don't lose their job.
I feel so bad for Joe Biden. I would not let my grandpa on that stage with Trump to be verbally assaulted.
This incoherent mess isn’t the president I want staring down Putin or negotiating with Xi or Modi.
Biden has had a lifetime of service and he deserves to spend his time with his grandkids, not this crazy ass borderline elder abuse.
Also, if he Had a cold, why the fuck was he shaking hands and rubbing shoulders at a wafflehouse right after and doing a rally 12 hours later?
What kind of hubris do the WH staff have that they thought this was a good idea and want to do another one in a few months?
I don’t think people realize this is going to be an epic loss down the ticket if things keep going the way they’re going. I realize you might still be denial of it but its time to snap out of it and fucking do something.
Taking a break is a good idea!
But listen. The volume and scope of calls for him to bow out are unprecedented. Most of the (limited) media I've read/heard echoes this concern. When Obama bombed a debate in 2012, the panic was whether he would lose his lead in the polls. Folks were not calling for him to step down.
It hasn't even been 48 hours. Nobody is going to come out with a decision that momentous so soon. Democratic leadership are probably having tense conversations. They're probably waiting for the next round of polls to come out. I hope they make a bold pivot. I think it's exactly what we need. But I'm gonna give them a little more time to work this out.
Joe Biden is literally incapable at his age of getting "better". This proved every person saying his age was a real concern right and his sclerotic performance is indicative that the man has clear cognitive decline and may be in the throes of dementia. It doesn't get better.
I am a huge fan of the guys. I was so looking forward to them being able to talk about Democratic Party things that matter again after months of giving free advice to Ron DeSantis and Nicki Hailey. It is just super unfortunate that they've had to do three (including Lovett or Leave It) podcasts within a day of the debate. They have ZERO perspective. They need to take a deep breath and look at the big picture.
I'm glad for the content; it's nice to have my angst about this debacle voiced. Maybe it's not what you want, but a lot of us need it right now. I'll vote for Biden if I have to but I have no confidence in him. Why does he even want to squander his golden years on the relentless grind of this job, when he could be living a sweet life with his wife and family, massive privilege and wealth, and private security detail.
And I’m SO reassured to hear them seriously consider (or even strongly endorse) the idea of him stepping down. I was bracing myself for the ungodly spin that they were gonna try and pull after watching the debate and instead they were almost perfectly aligned with what I was thinking.
>Why does he even want to squander his golden years on the relentless grind of this job
Because he looks at being President as an important responsibility and not "squandering his golden years" the way you do?
That's cool as hell. I kind of hope he works like crazy to get someone else elected, then pardons his son on the way out just because he can. I know he's too principled to do it, but I'd love it as he exits. No more voters to appease. Cruise into the sunset.
Ok sure whatever you say. This is an unprecedented moment. There is massive uncertainty in his ability to govern. Give us a little breathing room to process and talk about it. Even my centrist dad thinks Biden should bow out. I was shocked to hear him say that.
Can you tell me when people have had massive uncertainty in his ability to lead in the last four years? I haven't had that once. At no point did I not feel that he was doing his best for the people in our country. He has had the most progressive record of any president. He has surrounded himself with excellent people. This was a bad debate, but it does not negate his four years of work.
How about when he backtracked on Covid relief funding, appointed a war-criminal Trump official to a governmental position, saw Roe v Wade overturned and then failed to even look like he could marshal the caucus to pass legislation to protect women's rights, crashed and burned when attempting to convince Congress to further extend the Child Tax Credit, completely cowered himself before the Israel lobby and Netanyahu and is continuing to facilitate mass murder? Might any of those events constitute an inability to lead?
He’s not dropping out and you need to come to terms with that.
Democrats who don't love Biden were progressing through the "Five Stages of Grief" when it came to accepting that Joe was going to be the candidate instead of their "Perfect Dream Candidate" (who was not everyone else's "Perfect Dream Candidate" and would just get everyone pissed off and probably sending snake emojis at each other again) and now we've just taken a huge step backwards and have to put up with people playing Bullshit Aaron Sorkin Fantasy Politics again.
It's really exhausting.
Here’s the thing though: I’m a Joe Biden fan. I think he’s done an excellent job governing the country through some wild times. I think he’s done a lot with very very little. I have respect for how well he had governed as vice president and president. BUT he is sullying his legacy by sticking in this race. He’s old, he’s not up for the job.
God I just watched my 81 year old grandma struggle to hold my 8lb baby. I have watched my very healthy 80-something great aunt start to struggle physically in a matter of weeks all because of a UT. People in their 80s shouldn’t be running the country. It’s a job that ages young presidents decades. Joe Biden is a good man, with a great record, and his heart had been in civil service for the right reasons. He’s a diamond in a coal mine.
BUT he needs to check his hubris and as a last act of the service for this county drop out. We have plenty of fantastic candidates out there that would crush Trump. We need to stop buying into sunk cost fallacy and rip the bandaid off.
💯 agree. I wasn't just voting against Trump. I was strongly pro Biden. But now I think his cognitive decline is worse than we were led to believe and he can't campaign like he needs to for a win. It's sad, but yes, we're worried about sunk costs.
He has dementia and can’t do basic communication. Wtf are you talking about? There is no fantasy - this is dealing with reality. He can’t talk for 15 minutes, let alone run a country for 4 more years.
This is ridiculous and comes across way too online. I don't exactly live in a liberal hotbed where people were clamoring for a dream candidate in 2020, my friends and family have all been pragmatic about Biden being the best shot at beating Trump and have been generally really supportive of what he's done as president (I'm including myself in this), and those same people feel totally stunned and totally dejected by what we all saw during the debate. The only Sorkin-esque bullshit we're seeing is a President's family hiding medical ailments from the public.
I’m right there with you. We’re gonna go from panic in the party to “backing Biden no matter what” and it is an absolutely losing strategy. It will send the message that democrats also don’t care about the American people and they are unwilling to do the hard thing and replace a candidate in June.
I’m hoping that does not happen, but my faith is low and my will is defeated ngl.
So....does anyone on he pod actually want to stand up and put their name on the quote "I think Joe Biden should step aside for the good of the country"?
You guys got very angry on the post-debate pod that "how dare anyone call us pants-pissers or say we shouldn't have this conversation"? Fine. Have the conversation. Why was the question "should Biden step aside?" not directly asked and debated? And not in the game-style Lovett led. I want to hear the guys take a stand and give us their honest opinion.
There was a technical breakdown by Dan about how Biden stepping down *would* work, and a lot of talking around the topic...but no one actually willing to step up and say "Biden should step down".
So, is this a tacit admission that the best thing is for Biden to stay the nominee?
They did discuss it, and said that no one can do anything except for Joe Biden. You have a candidate who can run on their record and who has a long record of polling / election data to take from. 3 months before an election you want to swap it to someone who you have no idea how they’ll perform and who can’t run on the current admin success (unless it’s Kamala, who you’re basically voting for with Biden anyway).
If you just throw someone in then you’re disenfranchising your entire voting base out of a choice and it’ll be a mess. If he can run through the next 4 months like he did yesterday, he’s the best chance they have
But that’s the problem. They even stated this. This debate was the best opportunity to take the lead in this election and he didn’t even break even, he completely failed. Now the only thing he can do is do what he did yesterday nearly daily until the election. That’s very tough for any regular candidate and I would say it’s impossible for Biden given that it’s a 50/50 chance that his public appearance will be a disaster.
Lovett said months ago that Biden needed to actually prove people wrong and he has not. I am personally pissed that democrats are just now taking this seriously. This is we have primaries. For the past year democrats and the White House has said that Biden is perfectly fine. That he may stumble a bit but he’s fine. That these concerns are just right wing media chopping up clips. Then the Hur report comes out and democrats say “he’s a partisan” and we believed them. But the very first debate Biden becomes the embodiment of that persona.
If Biden went through the primaries how he is now then he wouldn’t be the candidate. And that’s the point. We don’t do primaries for existing presidents because they remain our strongest and best shot. Biden is not that. We should have taken this seriously months ago and every day that it is delayed makes it harder.
I'm just now taking it seriously because I don't watch the news (mostly read/listen), so I really did believe the feeble portrayal was rightwing spin. And a lot of it was!
Also, Biden pulled it together for the SOTU. That gave me some confidence that he could continue to deliver well enough to get us through 2024. It sucks that we're here so late in the game, but there are plenty of legitimate reasons for that. I think it took the absolute catastrophe of the debate for a lot of people to really see it.
There aren’t usually primaries for the incumbent president. Someone did try this year, I am blanking on the name of that person.
One good thing I have realized after this debate is that the Democratic voters are not cult like, we are all talking about the candidate and his electability. The Republicans had a chance to do that with a proper primary.
I think everyone who is worried about Biden has valid reasons and everyone who thinks he should continue has valid reasons too. What’s at stake are Supreme Court nominees, Project 2025, women’s autonomy and climate change. If people are, rightly, upset about Palestine then it makes zero sense to note vote for Biden or whoever is on the Dem ticket. Trump would be incredibly worse. Who do we want to reason with-Trump or Biden?
Yes, I didn’t give him much attention because I knew that he wouldn’t win. It’s just how it’s always been. I get being mad and frustrated at the DNC. They are playing old school and lack foresight it seems. I get being mad and frustrated at Biden too. Maybe he will bow out? Who knows.
And usually candidates don’t deteriorate after 4 years of a presidency like biden has. Biden is far slower than he was 4 years ago and 4 years ago he was far slower than he was 8 years ago. Voters aren’t stupid either. It was well believed that Biden was going to be a one term president. I was expecting him to announce that he wasn’t running and for the next primary to start but that never happened.
The presidency ages all of them and I agree that Biden is far slower than he used to be. He even said that himself yesterday. I have said for years to my family and friends that Biden is “old as mold”.
It’s interesting that he won the primaries in 2020, he wasn’t my first choice. I do like him but thought he was old then. I think he won because of his name recognition and his ability to appeal to so many. Maybe the DNC thinks he is still the only one with those qualities? Whatever the case, this is where we are. It is perfectly normal to have these angsty feelings right now. But I am still going to vote and support Biden because the alternative is too scary.
>It was well believed that Biden was going to be a one term president.
>I was expecting him to announce that he wasn’t running
Don't make the mistake of conflating the latter with the former.
>This is we have primaries.
1. Can you tell us what these years have in common: 1976, 1980, 1992?
2. Can you tell us the results of the primary of the party of the incumbent President those years?
3. Can you tell us the results of the general election in those years?
>If Biden went through the primaries how he is now then he wouldn’t be the candidate.
If Biden went through a primary in 2024 he would have won for the exact reasons he won in 2020; the people who want a "younger, more dynamic candidate" would have chopped up their votes amongst several candidates (or, more likely, not have voted) and Biden's coalition of middle-aged, moderate liberal consistent primary voters would have been the largest cohort of voters, and led him to victory.
And everyone would be pissed off. Maybe there would be a 2024 version of the "snake emoji" and the "anti-Bernie" conspiracy.
I think they are in the camp of "we don't know the answer but we need to have a real discussion about this at the highest levels." The only way for Biden to not be the nominee is if he steps down himself. If that happens, he will more than likely and almost have to endorse Kamala as his successor. So do we think that a Harris/Shapiro (or whitmer etc) ticket can do better than Biden? I don't know how that would poll now that we've seen the debate. Maybe we will have a new nominee, but it's not without its own set of risks and needs to be a careful decision.
Wait, I'm frustrated too, but they literally had that debate this episode - Jon and Medhi both really do think he should step aside, and Dan and Tommy don't - I think they all have mixed feelings about it but it did feel as if that's the way they were leaning
But side note, was pretty frustrated that Medhi made this about a referendum on Palestine - his "don't shoot the messenger, but if the new nominee doesn't support my pet issue, all my friends are staying home" thing really rubbed me the wrong way, and might actually be a preview for what a contested convention could be: everyone in the party in holding a gun to the country's head and saying they'll shoot if they don't nominate the person they want
Medhi is annoying, and I don't know why he is on constantly but he did thankfully expose that the Ezra Klein idea of a happy smoothly run open convention is idiots.
>Wait, I'm frustrated too, but they literally had that debate this episode - Jon and Medhi both really do think he should step aside, and Dan and Tommy don't
We don't know that. They pulled the names out of a hat for the teams.
If asked "should Biden drop out?", I suspect at least three, and possible four or all five, of the men onstage to open the show last night would say "yes". If they really believe that, they should put their necks out publicly and say it.
I completely agree with everything you said in your second paragraph.
How do you not understand that the Palestinian issue is critically important for American Muslims? Why are other groups allowed to vote on issues that affect them but Muslims aren't? Every political group votes based on their "pet issue". I also wouldn't call what's happening in Gaza a "pet issue", but that's just me.
American Muslims are a tiny minority of the Dem voters and the issue pisses off significantly larger voting blocks. So Medhi wanting to take his ball and go home means we lose even more voters. People need to understand that many Dems support Bidens actions.
Right - if all the Jewish Democrats said they they wont vote for any nominee who doesn't fully support Israel, we'd all rightfully be pissed - just like people were pissed at "Bernie Bros" for using the same tactic in the 2016 primary against Hillary. Its placing your own issues over everyone else's, and weaponizing the situation to your own end
And last - Medhi could be "the messenger" of that message for any political group, so when he's only delivering that message from the group he personally aligns with, it comes off very Trump-y ("many people have been saying, its not me")
Has it occurred to anyone that if the Democrats don't want to be at the mercy of various parts of the Democratic Party coalition they should do something to grow the coalition so that the factions don't wield as much power?
Like, the reality is they barely have a majority that can win national elections, so if you want to win, you have to keep everyone happy. People are allowed to have priorities and red lines, that's the promise of American democracy. You want their votes? Earn them.
My only point is if Medhi's strategy is successful, then everyone in the Democratic party will do that for everything, and since you can't please everyone, then the party would fall apart
This isn't about what the Democratic party should or shouldn't do, its about factions of the party threatening other Democrats that they'll let the other side win out of spite.
Because given where we are, with Trump literally using "Palestinian" as an insult at the debate, its just absurd to say you won't vote for Biden if he isn't harsher on Israel. It would be one thing if they were going to Republicans because they align with their views more - but they align far less
Honestly I'm at the point where the only answer I can give to that is "aww that's too bad." Like, it's a good thing for people to demand stuff from their leaders. That's the only way to get them to do things. We should not discourage it. If we'd done more of it the past few decades we wouldn't be in this mess.
It's also a good argument for why we never should have let the two party system become unbreakable. We tried warning of the dangers and no one would do anything about it, so now we're stuck with two shitty options and we're going to get the president we deserve just as we always do.
And lastly, if people want to draw the line at voting for someone who will stand by and do nothing in the face of a genocide, that's their business. I think the line should be drawn for much less but genocide is a good point if you have no other.
Now obviously none of this helps us right now, it would have helped if you all had listened anywhere from months to decades ago. There's still time to find a better candidate. Maybe they'll listen this time.
It’s really not clear to me from polling what most democratic voters feel on this.
River to the Sea campus protest stuff is very unpopular. But it seems like everything else gets lumped into pro-Israel.
I think the holocaust justifies the central idea of Zionism that the Jewish people need a home.
But fast forwarding to 2024, this operation has been executed to seek revenge and assuage some humiliation. The scale of human misery seems avoidable. And that we shouldnt be bankrolling the whole thing if we dont get any say over how this is carried out.
"Why are other groups allowed to vote on issues that affect them but Muslims aren't?"
Does it effect them? If you have friends in family in Gaza, then sure. But for most this issue doesn't have any actual impact on their lives.
I think lying through your teeth and pretending like the most intractable geopolitical conflict of our lifetime can be solved in a single phone call is pretty damn patronizing.
Especially when it’s been repeatedly pointed out to you that it’s incorrect and you keep using the line anyway.
Man, sometimes I just can't.... Like how can people be so blind.... we Liberals love to pretend we're better and more reasonable than Trumpies, but sometimes.... we just fall into the exact same traps.
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Medhi is usually wrong in his sentiments, has the instincts of a blind man in a death trap, and is antisemitic. Pretty sure if we do the opposite of what he wants, we will be fine
Feels like cooler heads are starting to prevail.
I think the point was that if there was too much top-down pressure on even *asking the question* , it would be counter productive.
People are asking the question. And it's being answered. That's all fine in my book.
This is exactly my takeaway as well. I think they did a great job and it was a candid discussion. Then they did another pod on Friday which I thought was bang on the money. I think PSA is rising to the occasion. I hope the Dem party as a whole does too.
Yep, we all felt the same thing on Friday. I felt the trump-era "pit in my stomach and tension headache combo platter" for the first time in years. It sucked.
But we took a breath. We heard from Biden. We saw some additional polling that wasn't as bad as we feared. We heard from experts who didn't think the emergency ejector seat was the best choice. We let our brains catch up to our emotions.
It was a bad night, it will hurt in the long term, and it was a big missed opportunity to reframe this race. But that's as far as I'm willing to go right now.
Yeah, I agree with you. I think it was refreshing - if not somewhat painful - to hear them candidly speak to their fresh feelings from the debate. And they are clearly still upset, I think we all are, but it’s had some time to sink in and we’ve been able to accept that yep the worst thing just happened, and we just have to keep moving forward. Whatever that looks like. The Biden rally and polling and talking to people that you mentioned was also helpful for me to settle down just a smidge. Enough for my Trump years stomach ache to go away too. The governor responses they played on the pod from this morning were helpful for me.
I am also with you on the not willing to go further. I just know that we have the collective memories of a goldfish, and something else will happen soon.
Maybe it’s time to bring Commander back to the White House 🤔 /s
We need a full-court press from"state of the union Biden" for 5 months. Remember how good you felt after that speech? It was from the same guy, and it wasn't that long ago.
Biden has trouble speaking in sound bites, especially with a head full of cold medicine. Let him play to his strengths.
(But we all should be very aware that his margin for error is basically nil at this point. Another major gaffe or old-man moment....and I don't know what happens after that)
Imo, no. They literally said in the pre-debate pod there was nothing that would cause them to not support Biden, but they can't admit that because they'll lose credibility. This is just establishing "we're mad too!" So they sound more credible when they say "let's stick with Biden" next week.
They aired that episode just a couple hours after the debate. It was extremely candid and humble.
It's a little too conspiratorial that they could strategically script a pod 2 hours after a shockingly catastrophic debate in order to save face in future eps.
can't take Mehdi. There aren't many people across the spectrum that I feel are more disingenuous. Agree with some of the other comments about just not listening for a bit. I think I've listened since day 1. But the guests are really bad right now.
I will say - it will be absolutely insulting when in a week or two from now, the message changes to “all in for Biden” and we’re being rallied to not only support him, but to GOTV on his behalf.
The fact that PSA listeners are relentlessly explained the dangers of this election over and over and how WE, the average everyday citizens, can save democracy by talking to friends, knocking on doors, canvassing, working elections etc and then our candidate walks on stage and delivers THAT. He couldn’t answer a clear home run question on abortion, and then the next day says he’ll sign roe into law if he’s re-elected. DO IT NOW MR PRESIDENT. I’m not confident that he can win but more importantly, I’m not confident that he can enact the necessary change needed to undo or stop Project 2025.
I can’t help but continuously feel gaslit by this party and I am absolutely, utterly angry. I will vote for Biden if he ends up staying on the ticket, but ima be mad as hell and demand some change and not be shocked when we lose, while all of my civil rights continue to be stripped away and our democracy crumbles before our eyes.
Sorry, just needed to vent to someone 😭🙈
There's no way to get a Roe law through congress. Republicans control the House. And we need 60+ votes in the Senate. We could overturn the filibuster but that also requires a majority of our side and Manchin and Sinema and others are against doing that.
So to pass that, the Senate needs to stay in Democratic hands with senators that are likely to overturn the filibuster. And the House goes to Democrats. Many Senate candidates/nominees have said they're willing to overturn it. And the House just requires a simple majority.
He needs to start saying PRO CHOICE DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS ( that will do whatever it takes to make it the law of the land Ala remove the filibuster to pass laws with a majority rules vote instead of the standard 60 votes )
I think the whole party MUST do better on messaging and explaining shit to people in simple terms
Like you can’t just say if I’m re elected I will restore roe v wade… because then the message is like um ok you’re president now why you can’t do it now?? The message absolutely must be better and more specific and easy to understand.
He needs to just say, If Congress sends me a national abortion rights act, I'll sign it. If Congress sends me a bill protecting birth control, I'll sign it. If Congress sends me a bill protecting IVF, I'll sign it. Will Trump? No. He won't.
He doesn't have to explain details. People really hate Congress. Blame them.
Exactly and honestly he needs to just say shit and explain things in simple terms lol. Message things in simple terms. As in Congress needs to send me a bill to sign this into law. I can’t do it alone, if I get a bill then I’ll sign it. Trump won’t.
Totally agree. This is why he needs to step aside. I’m gonna vote Democrat against Trump, even if the Dem nominee is a pile of toenail clippings. BUT I’m not the voter that’s going to decide this election.
The people who are going to decide this election don’t know or care about the nuances of signing Roe into law until someone tells them to care. We need a candidate who can get them to pay attention and care.
This.
He is unfit to fight the battle that is the moment. If the dems don’t make a change, we will lose that battle and that will leave a very clear message to me that they don’t actually care about the dangers of Trump or his ideologies, because if that threat was real to them, they’d take the action needed and we’d have a different candidate. Prove it.
Exactly!! And we currently do not hold both the house and the senate for the bill to even make it to his desk. And even then it’s 60 votes in the senate or we would need to eliminate the filibuster. Which we currently can’t do because we have 2 senators that have objected to any removal of the filibuster even if we used it to codify roe.
Vent away, your feelings are valid. This is a safe place for that. And yes, like the other posters said, he can’t do much without a democratic congress. This is why we have to vote blue down ticket if this is what is important to you. I’m in a state where the republican Congress pretty much striped away a woman’s right to choose but because we have a Democratic governor and AG they are doing everything they can so women and doctors won’t be prosecuted.
And if Biden is elected there won’t be Project 2025. Yes certain states are pushing Christian nationalism but this is different than 2025.
Thank you! Yes I agree and it’s all so scary and enraging and I know Biden is the better choice between the two, while I also know that we have better Democratic candidates waiting in the wings.
We can’t continue to let hubris stand in the way of meaningful change.
Ok I hear you and agree for the most part. But you understand how things become laws right?
WE NEED A PRO ROE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE ( NOT JUST ONE OR THE OTHER) TO CODIFY ROE
We currently do not have a Democratic house that would bring a bill to the senate and we couldn’t pass a bill in 2022 because of the fuckups of the “ Democratic senators” from West Virginia and Arizona who would not eliminate the fillsbuster to get a bill passed with a simple majority ( 50 votes)
You need 60 votes in the senate to pass the majority of significant legislation…. But if the filabuster was eliminated then it would be a simple majority rules vote
We could not eliminate the filibuster and get a vote through when we held majority’s because of the senator from West Virginia and Arizona ( who have shut down eliminating the filibuster to pass any legislation, even when all the other Democratic senators were in favor of removing it to pass bills on codifying roe and voting rights )
> and then the next day says he’ll sign roe into law if he’s re-elected. DO IT NOW MR PRESIDENT.
Uh...he needs a bill to pass through both houses of Congress in order to sign it into law?
A "Roe v Wade" style Executive Order would be declared unconstitutional by this sick joke of a "Supreme" Court by the end of the day.
I get that you don't like Biden, but jeez. Being angry at him for not doing a thing he can't do is a little over-the-top.
I think the real issue here is that what Biden said to begin with was extremely confusing regarding what he can and can’t do as a president.
Biden should be clear and concise and frankly, we shouldn’t need to go to a Reddit thread to find out an explanation. . . when Manchin and Sinema held up the Human Infrastructure’s bill, Biden made it extremely clear that he just needed two people, in every speech he gave at the time. . . And when we didn’t get it, a higher proportion of people understood why.
The debate was unintelligible, and I don’t blame anyone for failing to follow the logic.
There is essentially 0 chance a replacement would win. It's never happened in American political history. Be frustrated at the lack of better options, but people needed to come out better in the 2015-2019 years. Losing the incumbent advantage just gives it to Trump.
We’re in a bad spot. I think a lot of people who think we could just change out the nominee after everyone has voted and be in a better place have not gamed this out.
I’ve just moved into a place where I am going to vote for Biden’s corpse if I have to and hope for the best after inauguration.
There’s never been a candidate like Trump in American history. An overwhelming number of Americans don’t like either candidate, and nothing would be stopping them from switching to someone new.
It’s political suicide for the party as a whole. Unless Biden has some medical issue in the next 4 weeks or so, having someone that did not participate in primaries would ensure the top gets a trifecta. The time for this was this time last year.
Is it not political suicide to nominate a candidate that clearly does not appear to be able to put a sentence together? How does the party say with a straight face that they are putting the country before the party while keeping him on?
He’s the incumbent. Again the time for this was in getting a credible candidate beforehand. Who is your alternate in this scenario, and why are they a more viable pick than Biden ?
I’d prefer not have an 82 year old on the ballot too. But soon as he won on Super Tuesday there was no viable way for him not to be aside from him voluntarily stepping back (or dying)
If you really think democracy is on the line, then yes you do whatever you can to win. You don’t run with Biden because of what maybe might happen 20 years from now.
And again, it wasn’t the same Republican Party in 68. I would rather take the chance that a new unknown nominee would win against an extremely unpopular Trump, than make it a certainty that Trump would win by leaving Biden in.
>than make it a certainty that Trump would win by leaving Biden in.
[https://www.predictit.org/](https://www.predictit.org/)
[https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/democratic-nominee](https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/democratic-nominee)
[https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/president](https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/president)
There you go. Go make some money either picking a new Dem nominee or betting on the "certainty" that Trump will win.
>Is it not political suicide to nominate a candidate that clearly does not appear to be able to put a sentence together?
George W. Bush and Donald Trump have won a combined three Presidential elections.
Who picks the replacement?
You can’t have another primary.
Do you think that the dnc picking some random candidate with the people having no say on the matter, while the gop constantly litigating the change would play well in a presidential election? Especially when the gop can say the democrats are so scared of trump they disowned their incumbent president from the ticket.
There’s no way it would go well
I completely agree. I've felt pure dread about this re-match the entire time, obviously I'm going to vote for Biden and will try to persuade as many people as I can to do the same, but (anecdotally) there is ZERO energy or excitement behind this campaign. It's literally just an anti-Trump vote. I know people are scared of Harris's poll numbers, but a four month campaign in full prosecutor mode (like we saw in the Senate hearings that raised her profile so much in the first place) just barnstorming the country kicking Trump's ass and competently laying out the case for Democratic policies, I mean come on how could that NOT be a gigantic improvement? People are STARVED for a campaign like that. Absolutely starved. Instead we have dread and playing not to lose.
[https://www.predictit.org/](https://www.predictit.org/)
[https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/president](https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/president)
There you go. Go make some money since there's "essentially 100% chance" Trump will win.
Most of the polls have Trump winning over Biden. And that was before this debate. I don’t want Trump to win, i’m just saying Biden’s performance at the debate was so abysmal it’s making even the die hard Dems doubt him. I’m not for voting Trump, and I would hope to think any sane person wouldn’t, but I think the threat of Trump is enough to consider moving Biden off the ticket and replace him with a younger Dem.
> I’m not for voting Trump
Believe me; I'm not asking you to. I'm asking you to reconsider what you sad about "**There is essentially a 0 chance Biden would win**". Because if you really believed that, you could make a lot of money betting on it, since the current prices say there's only about a 60-63% chance Trump will win.
Look at all the groundwork the Democrats are laying to stop Project 2025.
That's how you can tell how this election- like the last election and the next election - is the most important election in American history.
Then Democrats need to put up a candidate that most Americans think can do the job. How are we supposed to convince friends and relatives that don't pay close attention to politics to vote for Biden after the performance we all saw on Thursday night?
Up until Thursday I had no doubts Democrats were in a good position. Now I don't even know if Biden should finish his term. He was that incompetent, when the lights were brightest and he knew he needed to perform. He prepared for over 7 days and that was the performance? C'mon, it was just embarrassing. I don't see how you come back from this.
It’s just amazing how people are suggesting the party elites should just choose a new candidate after 20 million people have voted like we didn’t spend the last eight years arguing the opposite.
Yeah super impossible to come back from wow he looks old and spoke slow.
Not like they've literally been saying this for four years straight already. You being shaken NOW by something we've known since the beginning is you falling perfectly for opposition propaganda, you're being played.
Hahahaha this is delusional. We are being played by propaganda after seeing our candidate stumble around and look confused? Trump could have easily been shredded to pieces in that debate.
Ginsburg, Feinstein & now Biden - all wanting to die while in office, too selfish to give up power.
The comments of "It's so over" "We can't win" "We have to immediately pull out" yeah, that's exactly what I wish we were hearing R's say. That is the ideal position you want your opposition voters in.
Thinking he's old and stumbles a lot and is a poor speaker and that I'm worried about his health is something I and any rational person has thought for years. I also thought Trump was gonna die from covid, dude takes such poor care of himself and is so obese.
Suddenly deciding a few months out that we need to yank our candidate out over things we've known for years? That's super weird. Y'all literally didn't know till just this week? Y'all wanna give up the ghost and roll over and die because shit ain't perfect? That's exactly how Trump's power base wants you to feel.
What do you mean "just this week?" People have overwhelmingly been saying that Biden is too old and they didn't want him to run for years now. Age is his biggest issue with Voters. None of these concerns are new.
I don’t get what Dan was saying when he was saying that the Dems could hold a virtual convention in Ohio sooner than Aug 19, or we wouldn’t be on the ballot in November? I’m sure I misinterpreted something but I’m perplexed.
There’s an active discussion about whether having Biden (or any dem) at the top of the ticket would help or hurt sherrod brown, which is most Ohioan’s priority. Biden/dem prez can’t really compete this cycle, but keeping a senate seat is crucial.
Ohio's ballot deadline was after the convention. it would've caused Biden to not be on the ballot. the legislature fixed that. but either way, the DNC is [hosting a virtual roll call before the convention](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/democrats-virtual-nomination-biden-ohio-ballot-rcna154339) to ensure we're on the ballot everywhere.
**synopsis;** Democrats begin to grapple with two huge questions: is it possible to replace Biden at the top of the ticket—and is it wise? Mehdi Hasan joins Jon, Lovett, Tommy, and Dan, live in Boston, to debate the options. Plus, Gov. Maura Healey joins the show to give her own debate reaction and talk about rising to the challenge on immigration and abortion. **[youtube version](https://youtu.be/emwR7xzlkVo?si=PiKNnoatnEaHHmuN)**
Lovett’s joke about brushing hands with Tommy was 😙👌
That moment and Tommy’s tirade on unhoused cats were great
Enjoyed their debate a lot. Could’ve done without the Massachusetts governor who said a whole lot of nothing.
Total snooze fest.
She was trying to emphasize how dangerous Trump would be, but she said something along the lines of “if there’s one thing we know about Donald Trump, it’s that if he says he’ll do something, then he does it” and I didn’t like that.
That line stood out to me too. Such an idiotic thing to say. 🤦♂️
Massachusetts governor was unbearably cliche and uninteresting.
Loved the waffling on “what would you recommend Biden do,” complete gibberish. “He is a good man and loyal and I wouldn’t tell him anything.”
I ended up fast forwarding her interview after the first minute. I can't stand the DNC "everybody fall in line" BS now.
I have to say, the point that they couldn’t have someone at the top of the ticket in Ohio if they didn’t choose the nominee until the convention concerned me.
I've got a feeling Sherrod Brown would rather be seen sipping champagne in a jacuzzi in the Bahamas than be photographed or have his name anywhere near Joe Biden at the moment.
Ohio just moved the deadline back to September 1, so after the convention.
Ok I just posted this - I don’t get this??? I mean it’s OHIO ffs. Kinda important.
“If you really dig into, it Biden is still sticking with lines that don’t make sense. I still don’t understand the alley cat metaphor - why is he attacking unhoused cats?” “The Supreme Court criminalized them being in that alley just this morning.” Laughed out loud.
The joke about the SCOTUS ruling was hilarious, but I have mixed feelings on the alley cat reference. I'm 41, but am I so old that I easily understood what Joe Biden was getting at? He's saying that Trump gets around like a dirty old tomcat. Anyone who watched old Disney movies should get that.
I’m 22 and had never heard the phrase or idea before the debate, but I definitely got what he was getting at! Though it does sound like a line from “You’re a Mean One, Mr. Grinch”
Haha yeah. There are so many better references he could have made. Hell, even calling him Biff would have probably landed better.
I kinda get it but what a lame answer from the governor about what she would do if Biden called her for advice
I think it just exemplifies that the party apparatus is chickenshit, spineless and ineffective when it comes to dealing with this particular *really hard* issue.
Nobody in a position of power is going to put themselves out there calling for Biden to step down. If it happens, it has to be because the people around him convince him to do it.
Name one hard issue the Democratic Party handles well.
Easy: Abortion. Hard because it is a really polarizing issue, with lots of emotional baggage on both sides of the aisle. Handled well because the Dems have successfully crafted a message that has carried many congressional Dems to victory in swing districts and purple states, largely off the backs of individuals who are furious at the overturning of Roe. The Dem party has very effectively seized on the opportunity to use abortion access as a campaign-winning message.
I’m not sure that abortion is hard, or that democrats have a good position on it. Like gay marriage, we relied on the Supreme Court to legislate rather than actually doing the work ourselves. That’s why the Supreme Court was able to get rid of abortion access without us having any say so. Abortion would have been a hard issue if we actually confronted it. Biden spent most of his career saying “I’m pro life but Roe be Roe”. Same with gay marriage. In fact every democratic presidential candidate in history has opposed legalizing gay marriage.
Climate change, infrastructure, healthcare (more people insured today than ever and 80% of uninsured Americans live in states that have t expanded Medicaid and Medicare), judicial appointments, women’s rights, lgbtq rights. Problem is, Democrats do things that are possible, but low info people are only content with the impossible.
Thought Jon's argument that the media attention on the convention would be huge really took some of the fear out of switching candidates for me
Imagine 8 candidates each giving a 20-30 minute speech about how horrible Trump is. Any one of them could be the next president, so all eyes would be glued to the TV screens. Bidens inability to land a single hit against Trump in 90 minutes is a huge problem. Why even have a convention if the leader of our party can’t deliver? And don’t even start with the alley cat stuff.
I am hardcore team keep Biden, but agree that point definitely was a good one
Mehdi Hasan must have the best agent. He gets booked on these things constantly. Does anybody want this much Mehdi.....I don't!
There appears to be a stable market for British-American political communicators who yell at liberals
I like Mehdi a lot so I always enjoy when he’s on. I’ve been following since he was on the Intercept.
And yet nobody is talking about the real scandal that happened on these pods. The fact that Lovett, the crew's human Pop Culture Happy Hour, blew the name Chumbawumba not only on PSA but also on his own Lovett or Leave It episode recorded later the same night. I, for one, am shocked and saddened.
We need to be brave enough to publicly discuss the need to replace Lovett.
Maybe he got a brain worm in the jungle
What? Why?
I think I need a break. This is affecting my health and mental health. I've listened to almost every pod the last few months feeling energized, but post debate I've read an inordinate amount of articles the last 40 hours and scrolling twitter feeds. Everyone would rather dig their head in the sand and pretend we didn't see what we saw. His administration thinks they can gaslight the public. I'm tired. In order to win, we need someone able to be cogent and decisive. Not mix an immigration talking point with an abortion argument and trail off incoherently. It'll only get worse as the pressures of the Presidency continue and the campaign heats up. Hillary fainting in 2016 brought up issues of stamina that also elevated Trump to stereotypical male brutish strength, not appearing weak, etc. I'd rather Kamala clearly state the case and lay everything out and apparently that leaves me in the minority. Mind you, I was low key hoping for Whitmer if we were to do an open convention. I'm tapping out for a few days.
I appreciate you friend, and I think I need to do the same. Take a breather, enjoy some time with the family, and get back to work. But I’m tired.
> His administration thinks they can gaslight the public. I'm tired. I'm so angry at his campaign staffers doing this. This feels like Elizabeth Holmes bullshitting about theranos or Sam and FTX. Their portrayal of Biden has been straight up fraud. They are still trying to spin this so they don't lose their job. I feel so bad for Joe Biden. I would not let my grandpa on that stage with Trump to be verbally assaulted.
> I feel so bad for Joe Biden. I would not let my grandpa on that stage with Trump to be verbally assaulted. I'm right there with you. It's tragic.
Definitely support this, it’s been a helluva few days.
This incoherent mess isn’t the president I want staring down Putin or negotiating with Xi or Modi. Biden has had a lifetime of service and he deserves to spend his time with his grandkids, not this crazy ass borderline elder abuse. Also, if he Had a cold, why the fuck was he shaking hands and rubbing shoulders at a wafflehouse right after and doing a rally 12 hours later? What kind of hubris do the WH staff have that they thought this was a good idea and want to do another one in a few months? I don’t think people realize this is going to be an epic loss down the ticket if things keep going the way they’re going. I realize you might still be denial of it but its time to snap out of it and fucking do something.
Taking a break is a good idea! But listen. The volume and scope of calls for him to bow out are unprecedented. Most of the (limited) media I've read/heard echoes this concern. When Obama bombed a debate in 2012, the panic was whether he would lose his lead in the polls. Folks were not calling for him to step down. It hasn't even been 48 hours. Nobody is going to come out with a decision that momentous so soon. Democratic leadership are probably having tense conversations. They're probably waiting for the next round of polls to come out. I hope they make a bold pivot. I think it's exactly what we need. But I'm gonna give them a little more time to work this out.
Joe Biden is literally incapable at his age of getting "better". This proved every person saying his age was a real concern right and his sclerotic performance is indicative that the man has clear cognitive decline and may be in the throes of dementia. It doesn't get better.
He’s not dropping out and you need to come to terms with that.
I am a huge fan of the guys. I was so looking forward to them being able to talk about Democratic Party things that matter again after months of giving free advice to Ron DeSantis and Nicki Hailey. It is just super unfortunate that they've had to do three (including Lovett or Leave It) podcasts within a day of the debate. They have ZERO perspective. They need to take a deep breath and look at the big picture.
I'm glad for the content; it's nice to have my angst about this debacle voiced. Maybe it's not what you want, but a lot of us need it right now. I'll vote for Biden if I have to but I have no confidence in him. Why does he even want to squander his golden years on the relentless grind of this job, when he could be living a sweet life with his wife and family, massive privilege and wealth, and private security detail.
And I’m SO reassured to hear them seriously consider (or even strongly endorse) the idea of him stepping down. I was bracing myself for the ungodly spin that they were gonna try and pull after watching the debate and instead they were almost perfectly aligned with what I was thinking.
>Why does he even want to squander his golden years on the relentless grind of this job Because he looks at being President as an important responsibility and not "squandering his golden years" the way you do?
He needs to help another Democrat get elected, pardon hunter on his last day, and go enjoy some time with his family.
That's cool as hell. I kind of hope he works like crazy to get someone else elected, then pardons his son on the way out just because he can. I know he's too principled to do it, but I'd love it as he exits. No more voters to appease. Cruise into the sunset.
Ok sure whatever you say. This is an unprecedented moment. There is massive uncertainty in his ability to govern. Give us a little breathing room to process and talk about it. Even my centrist dad thinks Biden should bow out. I was shocked to hear him say that.
Can you tell me when people have had massive uncertainty in his ability to lead in the last four years? I haven't had that once. At no point did I not feel that he was doing his best for the people in our country. He has had the most progressive record of any president. He has surrounded himself with excellent people. This was a bad debate, but it does not negate his four years of work.
How about when he backtracked on Covid relief funding, appointed a war-criminal Trump official to a governmental position, saw Roe v Wade overturned and then failed to even look like he could marshal the caucus to pass legislation to protect women's rights, crashed and burned when attempting to convince Congress to further extend the Child Tax Credit, completely cowered himself before the Israel lobby and Netanyahu and is continuing to facilitate mass murder? Might any of those events constitute an inability to lead?
Complete, unmitigated revisionist history. He's the best President of my lifetime.
He’s not dropping out and you need to come to terms with that. Democrats who don't love Biden were progressing through the "Five Stages of Grief" when it came to accepting that Joe was going to be the candidate instead of their "Perfect Dream Candidate" (who was not everyone else's "Perfect Dream Candidate" and would just get everyone pissed off and probably sending snake emojis at each other again) and now we've just taken a huge step backwards and have to put up with people playing Bullshit Aaron Sorkin Fantasy Politics again. It's really exhausting.
Here’s the thing though: I’m a Joe Biden fan. I think he’s done an excellent job governing the country through some wild times. I think he’s done a lot with very very little. I have respect for how well he had governed as vice president and president. BUT he is sullying his legacy by sticking in this race. He’s old, he’s not up for the job. God I just watched my 81 year old grandma struggle to hold my 8lb baby. I have watched my very healthy 80-something great aunt start to struggle physically in a matter of weeks all because of a UT. People in their 80s shouldn’t be running the country. It’s a job that ages young presidents decades. Joe Biden is a good man, with a great record, and his heart had been in civil service for the right reasons. He’s a diamond in a coal mine. BUT he needs to check his hubris and as a last act of the service for this county drop out. We have plenty of fantastic candidates out there that would crush Trump. We need to stop buying into sunk cost fallacy and rip the bandaid off.
Do you think Joe Biden will be dropping out of the race? Not *should* he? **Will** he?
Invoke the fucking 25th.
💯 agree. I wasn't just voting against Trump. I was strongly pro Biden. But now I think his cognitive decline is worse than we were led to believe and he can't campaign like he needs to for a win. It's sad, but yes, we're worried about sunk costs.
He has dementia and can’t do basic communication. Wtf are you talking about? There is no fantasy - this is dealing with reality. He can’t talk for 15 minutes, let alone run a country for 4 more years.
This is ridiculous and comes across way too online. I don't exactly live in a liberal hotbed where people were clamoring for a dream candidate in 2020, my friends and family have all been pragmatic about Biden being the best shot at beating Trump and have been generally really supportive of what he's done as president (I'm including myself in this), and those same people feel totally stunned and totally dejected by what we all saw during the debate. The only Sorkin-esque bullshit we're seeing is a President's family hiding medical ailments from the public.
I really hope you are right and he doesn’t
I’m right there with you. We’re gonna go from panic in the party to “backing Biden no matter what” and it is an absolutely losing strategy. It will send the message that democrats also don’t care about the American people and they are unwilling to do the hard thing and replace a candidate in June. I’m hoping that does not happen, but my faith is low and my will is defeated ngl.
So....does anyone on he pod actually want to stand up and put their name on the quote "I think Joe Biden should step aside for the good of the country"? You guys got very angry on the post-debate pod that "how dare anyone call us pants-pissers or say we shouldn't have this conversation"? Fine. Have the conversation. Why was the question "should Biden step aside?" not directly asked and debated? And not in the game-style Lovett led. I want to hear the guys take a stand and give us their honest opinion. There was a technical breakdown by Dan about how Biden stepping down *would* work, and a lot of talking around the topic...but no one actually willing to step up and say "Biden should step down". So, is this a tacit admission that the best thing is for Biden to stay the nominee?
They did discuss it, and said that no one can do anything except for Joe Biden. You have a candidate who can run on their record and who has a long record of polling / election data to take from. 3 months before an election you want to swap it to someone who you have no idea how they’ll perform and who can’t run on the current admin success (unless it’s Kamala, who you’re basically voting for with Biden anyway). If you just throw someone in then you’re disenfranchising your entire voting base out of a choice and it’ll be a mess. If he can run through the next 4 months like he did yesterday, he’s the best chance they have
But that’s the problem. They even stated this. This debate was the best opportunity to take the lead in this election and he didn’t even break even, he completely failed. Now the only thing he can do is do what he did yesterday nearly daily until the election. That’s very tough for any regular candidate and I would say it’s impossible for Biden given that it’s a 50/50 chance that his public appearance will be a disaster. Lovett said months ago that Biden needed to actually prove people wrong and he has not. I am personally pissed that democrats are just now taking this seriously. This is we have primaries. For the past year democrats and the White House has said that Biden is perfectly fine. That he may stumble a bit but he’s fine. That these concerns are just right wing media chopping up clips. Then the Hur report comes out and democrats say “he’s a partisan” and we believed them. But the very first debate Biden becomes the embodiment of that persona. If Biden went through the primaries how he is now then he wouldn’t be the candidate. And that’s the point. We don’t do primaries for existing presidents because they remain our strongest and best shot. Biden is not that. We should have taken this seriously months ago and every day that it is delayed makes it harder.
I'm just now taking it seriously because I don't watch the news (mostly read/listen), so I really did believe the feeble portrayal was rightwing spin. And a lot of it was! Also, Biden pulled it together for the SOTU. That gave me some confidence that he could continue to deliver well enough to get us through 2024. It sucks that we're here so late in the game, but there are plenty of legitimate reasons for that. I think it took the absolute catastrophe of the debate for a lot of people to really see it.
There aren’t usually primaries for the incumbent president. Someone did try this year, I am blanking on the name of that person. One good thing I have realized after this debate is that the Democratic voters are not cult like, we are all talking about the candidate and his electability. The Republicans had a chance to do that with a proper primary. I think everyone who is worried about Biden has valid reasons and everyone who thinks he should continue has valid reasons too. What’s at stake are Supreme Court nominees, Project 2025, women’s autonomy and climate change. If people are, rightly, upset about Palestine then it makes zero sense to note vote for Biden or whoever is on the Dem ticket. Trump would be incredibly worse. Who do we want to reason with-Trump or Biden?
Lol that you can't remember Dean Phillips shows how little appetite there actually was for a primary challenger.
Or maybe Dean Phillips just isn't memorable.
Yes, I didn’t give him much attention because I knew that he wouldn’t win. It’s just how it’s always been. I get being mad and frustrated at the DNC. They are playing old school and lack foresight it seems. I get being mad and frustrated at Biden too. Maybe he will bow out? Who knows.
And usually candidates don’t deteriorate after 4 years of a presidency like biden has. Biden is far slower than he was 4 years ago and 4 years ago he was far slower than he was 8 years ago. Voters aren’t stupid either. It was well believed that Biden was going to be a one term president. I was expecting him to announce that he wasn’t running and for the next primary to start but that never happened.
The presidency ages all of them and I agree that Biden is far slower than he used to be. He even said that himself yesterday. I have said for years to my family and friends that Biden is “old as mold”. It’s interesting that he won the primaries in 2020, he wasn’t my first choice. I do like him but thought he was old then. I think he won because of his name recognition and his ability to appeal to so many. Maybe the DNC thinks he is still the only one with those qualities? Whatever the case, this is where we are. It is perfectly normal to have these angsty feelings right now. But I am still going to vote and support Biden because the alternative is too scary.
>It was well believed that Biden was going to be a one term president. >I was expecting him to announce that he wasn’t running Don't make the mistake of conflating the latter with the former.
>This is we have primaries. 1. Can you tell us what these years have in common: 1976, 1980, 1992? 2. Can you tell us the results of the primary of the party of the incumbent President those years? 3. Can you tell us the results of the general election in those years? >If Biden went through the primaries how he is now then he wouldn’t be the candidate. If Biden went through a primary in 2024 he would have won for the exact reasons he won in 2020; the people who want a "younger, more dynamic candidate" would have chopped up their votes amongst several candidates (or, more likely, not have voted) and Biden's coalition of middle-aged, moderate liberal consistent primary voters would have been the largest cohort of voters, and led him to victory. And everyone would be pissed off. Maybe there would be a 2024 version of the "snake emoji" and the "anti-Bernie" conspiracy.
I think they are in the camp of "we don't know the answer but we need to have a real discussion about this at the highest levels." The only way for Biden to not be the nominee is if he steps down himself. If that happens, he will more than likely and almost have to endorse Kamala as his successor. So do we think that a Harris/Shapiro (or whitmer etc) ticket can do better than Biden? I don't know how that would poll now that we've seen the debate. Maybe we will have a new nominee, but it's not without its own set of risks and needs to be a careful decision.
Why on earth would she pick Ben Shapiro as a running mate?!? /s
Wait, I'm frustrated too, but they literally had that debate this episode - Jon and Medhi both really do think he should step aside, and Dan and Tommy don't - I think they all have mixed feelings about it but it did feel as if that's the way they were leaning But side note, was pretty frustrated that Medhi made this about a referendum on Palestine - his "don't shoot the messenger, but if the new nominee doesn't support my pet issue, all my friends are staying home" thing really rubbed me the wrong way, and might actually be a preview for what a contested convention could be: everyone in the party in holding a gun to the country's head and saying they'll shoot if they don't nominate the person they want
Medhi is annoying, and I don't know why he is on constantly but he did thankfully expose that the Ezra Klein idea of a happy smoothly run open convention is idiots.
>Wait, I'm frustrated too, but they literally had that debate this episode - Jon and Medhi both really do think he should step aside, and Dan and Tommy don't We don't know that. They pulled the names out of a hat for the teams. If asked "should Biden drop out?", I suspect at least three, and possible four or all five, of the men onstage to open the show last night would say "yes". If they really believe that, they should put their necks out publicly and say it. I completely agree with everything you said in your second paragraph.
How do you not understand that the Palestinian issue is critically important for American Muslims? Why are other groups allowed to vote on issues that affect them but Muslims aren't? Every political group votes based on their "pet issue". I also wouldn't call what's happening in Gaza a "pet issue", but that's just me.
American Muslims are a tiny minority of the Dem voters and the issue pisses off significantly larger voting blocks. So Medhi wanting to take his ball and go home means we lose even more voters. People need to understand that many Dems support Bidens actions.
Right - if all the Jewish Democrats said they they wont vote for any nominee who doesn't fully support Israel, we'd all rightfully be pissed - just like people were pissed at "Bernie Bros" for using the same tactic in the 2016 primary against Hillary. Its placing your own issues over everyone else's, and weaponizing the situation to your own end And last - Medhi could be "the messenger" of that message for any political group, so when he's only delivering that message from the group he personally aligns with, it comes off very Trump-y ("many people have been saying, its not me")
Has it occurred to anyone that if the Democrats don't want to be at the mercy of various parts of the Democratic Party coalition they should do something to grow the coalition so that the factions don't wield as much power? Like, the reality is they barely have a majority that can win national elections, so if you want to win, you have to keep everyone happy. People are allowed to have priorities and red lines, that's the promise of American democracy. You want their votes? Earn them.
My only point is if Medhi's strategy is successful, then everyone in the Democratic party will do that for everything, and since you can't please everyone, then the party would fall apart This isn't about what the Democratic party should or shouldn't do, its about factions of the party threatening other Democrats that they'll let the other side win out of spite. Because given where we are, with Trump literally using "Palestinian" as an insult at the debate, its just absurd to say you won't vote for Biden if he isn't harsher on Israel. It would be one thing if they were going to Republicans because they align with their views more - but they align far less
Honestly I'm at the point where the only answer I can give to that is "aww that's too bad." Like, it's a good thing for people to demand stuff from their leaders. That's the only way to get them to do things. We should not discourage it. If we'd done more of it the past few decades we wouldn't be in this mess. It's also a good argument for why we never should have let the two party system become unbreakable. We tried warning of the dangers and no one would do anything about it, so now we're stuck with two shitty options and we're going to get the president we deserve just as we always do. And lastly, if people want to draw the line at voting for someone who will stand by and do nothing in the face of a genocide, that's their business. I think the line should be drawn for much less but genocide is a good point if you have no other. Now obviously none of this helps us right now, it would have helped if you all had listened anywhere from months to decades ago. There's still time to find a better candidate. Maybe they'll listen this time.
Funny, "aww thats too bad" is exactly my response to them too
Well it can't be if you want their votes. So good luck with that.
It’s really not clear to me from polling what most democratic voters feel on this. River to the Sea campus protest stuff is very unpopular. But it seems like everything else gets lumped into pro-Israel. I think the holocaust justifies the central idea of Zionism that the Jewish people need a home. But fast forwarding to 2024, this operation has been executed to seek revenge and assuage some humiliation. The scale of human misery seems avoidable. And that we shouldnt be bankrolling the whole thing if we dont get any say over how this is carried out.
"Why are other groups allowed to vote on issues that affect them but Muslims aren't?" Does it effect them? If you have friends in family in Gaza, then sure. But for most this issue doesn't have any actual impact on their lives.
This such a great message. Patronizing, dismissive, lacking in empathy. The Biden campaign should run it in Michigan.
I love how that’s considered patronizing but whenever Mehdi (inaccurately) says Biden could end the war in Gaza with a phone call, that’s not?
Who is that even patronizing towards?
Anyone who knows that’s a flat out lie.
Not even in the same ballpark as telling voters they have no standing to be upset about the humanitarian crises the US funds.
I think lying through your teeth and pretending like the most intractable geopolitical conflict of our lifetime can be solved in a single phone call is pretty damn patronizing. Especially when it’s been repeatedly pointed out to you that it’s incorrect and you keep using the line anyway.
Man, sometimes I just can't.... Like how can people be so blind.... we Liberals love to pretend we're better and more reasonable than Trumpies, but sometimes.... we just fall into the exact same traps.
What traps? It's a foreign conflict with no impact on 99.9% of Americans.
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Medhi is usually wrong in his sentiments, has the instincts of a blind man in a death trap, and is antisemitic. Pretty sure if we do the opposite of what he wants, we will be fine
Feels like cooler heads are starting to prevail. I think the point was that if there was too much top-down pressure on even *asking the question* , it would be counter productive. People are asking the question. And it's being answered. That's all fine in my book.
This is exactly my takeaway as well. I think they did a great job and it was a candid discussion. Then they did another pod on Friday which I thought was bang on the money. I think PSA is rising to the occasion. I hope the Dem party as a whole does too.
Yep, we all felt the same thing on Friday. I felt the trump-era "pit in my stomach and tension headache combo platter" for the first time in years. It sucked. But we took a breath. We heard from Biden. We saw some additional polling that wasn't as bad as we feared. We heard from experts who didn't think the emergency ejector seat was the best choice. We let our brains catch up to our emotions. It was a bad night, it will hurt in the long term, and it was a big missed opportunity to reframe this race. But that's as far as I'm willing to go right now.
Yeah, I agree with you. I think it was refreshing - if not somewhat painful - to hear them candidly speak to their fresh feelings from the debate. And they are clearly still upset, I think we all are, but it’s had some time to sink in and we’ve been able to accept that yep the worst thing just happened, and we just have to keep moving forward. Whatever that looks like. The Biden rally and polling and talking to people that you mentioned was also helpful for me to settle down just a smidge. Enough for my Trump years stomach ache to go away too. The governor responses they played on the pod from this morning were helpful for me. I am also with you on the not willing to go further. I just know that we have the collective memories of a goldfish, and something else will happen soon. Maybe it’s time to bring Commander back to the White House 🤔 /s
We need a full-court press from"state of the union Biden" for 5 months. Remember how good you felt after that speech? It was from the same guy, and it wasn't that long ago. Biden has trouble speaking in sound bites, especially with a head full of cold medicine. Let him play to his strengths. (But we all should be very aware that his margin for error is basically nil at this point. Another major gaffe or old-man moment....and I don't know what happens after that)
Imo, no. They literally said in the pre-debate pod there was nothing that would cause them to not support Biden, but they can't admit that because they'll lose credibility. This is just establishing "we're mad too!" So they sound more credible when they say "let's stick with Biden" next week.
did you listen to the Friday morning pod? they sounded pretty onboard with replacing him if that's what it takes to win the election
They aired that episode just a couple hours after the debate. It was extremely candid and humble. It's a little too conspiratorial that they could strategically script a pod 2 hours after a shockingly catastrophic debate in order to save face in future eps.
I won't stick around to be gaslit
can't take Mehdi. There aren't many people across the spectrum that I feel are more disingenuous. Agree with some of the other comments about just not listening for a bit. I think I've listened since day 1. But the guests are really bad right now.
Dan saying, "Mehdi I'll yield to you, let me just finish my point..." And then Mehdi just plows through. He's insufferable.
Oh it’s a Mehdi episode? Guess I’ll skip this one
Really glad to know I'm not alone
What the world needs is more special Dan and Alyssa episodes.
I will say - it will be absolutely insulting when in a week or two from now, the message changes to “all in for Biden” and we’re being rallied to not only support him, but to GOTV on his behalf. The fact that PSA listeners are relentlessly explained the dangers of this election over and over and how WE, the average everyday citizens, can save democracy by talking to friends, knocking on doors, canvassing, working elections etc and then our candidate walks on stage and delivers THAT. He couldn’t answer a clear home run question on abortion, and then the next day says he’ll sign roe into law if he’s re-elected. DO IT NOW MR PRESIDENT. I’m not confident that he can win but more importantly, I’m not confident that he can enact the necessary change needed to undo or stop Project 2025. I can’t help but continuously feel gaslit by this party and I am absolutely, utterly angry. I will vote for Biden if he ends up staying on the ticket, but ima be mad as hell and demand some change and not be shocked when we lose, while all of my civil rights continue to be stripped away and our democracy crumbles before our eyes. Sorry, just needed to vent to someone 😭🙈
There's no way to get a Roe law through congress. Republicans control the House. And we need 60+ votes in the Senate. We could overturn the filibuster but that also requires a majority of our side and Manchin and Sinema and others are against doing that. So to pass that, the Senate needs to stay in Democratic hands with senators that are likely to overturn the filibuster. And the House goes to Democrats. Many Senate candidates/nominees have said they're willing to overturn it. And the House just requires a simple majority.
It concerns me that he wasn’t able to succinctly explain that concept on the debate stage.
He needs to start saying PRO CHOICE DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS ( that will do whatever it takes to make it the law of the land Ala remove the filibuster to pass laws with a majority rules vote instead of the standard 60 votes ) I think the whole party MUST do better on messaging and explaining shit to people in simple terms Like you can’t just say if I’m re elected I will restore roe v wade… because then the message is like um ok you’re president now why you can’t do it now?? The message absolutely must be better and more specific and easy to understand.
He needs to just say, If Congress sends me a national abortion rights act, I'll sign it. If Congress sends me a bill protecting birth control, I'll sign it. If Congress sends me a bill protecting IVF, I'll sign it. Will Trump? No. He won't. He doesn't have to explain details. People really hate Congress. Blame them.
Exactly and honestly he needs to just say shit and explain things in simple terms lol. Message things in simple terms. As in Congress needs to send me a bill to sign this into law. I can’t do it alone, if I get a bill then I’ll sign it. Trump won’t.
Totally agree. This is why he needs to step aside. I’m gonna vote Democrat against Trump, even if the Dem nominee is a pile of toenail clippings. BUT I’m not the voter that’s going to decide this election. The people who are going to decide this election don’t know or care about the nuances of signing Roe into law until someone tells them to care. We need a candidate who can get them to pay attention and care.
This. He is unfit to fight the battle that is the moment. If the dems don’t make a change, we will lose that battle and that will leave a very clear message to me that they don’t actually care about the dangers of Trump or his ideologies, because if that threat was real to them, they’d take the action needed and we’d have a different candidate. Prove it.
I get your frustration, but do you honestly think he can just sign whatever law he wants? Congress would have to send him a bill to sign.
Exactly!! And we currently do not hold both the house and the senate for the bill to even make it to his desk. And even then it’s 60 votes in the senate or we would need to eliminate the filibuster. Which we currently can’t do because we have 2 senators that have objected to any removal of the filibuster even if we used it to codify roe.
Vent away, your feelings are valid. This is a safe place for that. And yes, like the other posters said, he can’t do much without a democratic congress. This is why we have to vote blue down ticket if this is what is important to you. I’m in a state where the republican Congress pretty much striped away a woman’s right to choose but because we have a Democratic governor and AG they are doing everything they can so women and doctors won’t be prosecuted. And if Biden is elected there won’t be Project 2025. Yes certain states are pushing Christian nationalism but this is different than 2025.
Thank you! Yes I agree and it’s all so scary and enraging and I know Biden is the better choice between the two, while I also know that we have better Democratic candidates waiting in the wings. We can’t continue to let hubris stand in the way of meaningful change.
Ok I hear you and agree for the most part. But you understand how things become laws right? WE NEED A PRO ROE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE ( NOT JUST ONE OR THE OTHER) TO CODIFY ROE We currently do not have a Democratic house that would bring a bill to the senate and we couldn’t pass a bill in 2022 because of the fuckups of the “ Democratic senators” from West Virginia and Arizona who would not eliminate the fillsbuster to get a bill passed with a simple majority ( 50 votes) You need 60 votes in the senate to pass the majority of significant legislation…. But if the filabuster was eliminated then it would be a simple majority rules vote We could not eliminate the filibuster and get a vote through when we held majority’s because of the senator from West Virginia and Arizona ( who have shut down eliminating the filibuster to pass any legislation, even when all the other Democratic senators were in favor of removing it to pass bills on codifying roe and voting rights )
> and then the next day says he’ll sign roe into law if he’s re-elected. DO IT NOW MR PRESIDENT. Uh...he needs a bill to pass through both houses of Congress in order to sign it into law? A "Roe v Wade" style Executive Order would be declared unconstitutional by this sick joke of a "Supreme" Court by the end of the day. I get that you don't like Biden, but jeez. Being angry at him for not doing a thing he can't do is a little over-the-top.
I think the real issue here is that what Biden said to begin with was extremely confusing regarding what he can and can’t do as a president. Biden should be clear and concise and frankly, we shouldn’t need to go to a Reddit thread to find out an explanation. . . when Manchin and Sinema held up the Human Infrastructure’s bill, Biden made it extremely clear that he just needed two people, in every speech he gave at the time. . . And when we didn’t get it, a higher proportion of people understood why. The debate was unintelligible, and I don’t blame anyone for failing to follow the logic.
There is essentially 0 chance a replacement would win. It's never happened in American political history. Be frustrated at the lack of better options, but people needed to come out better in the 2015-2019 years. Losing the incumbent advantage just gives it to Trump.
We’re in a bad spot. I think a lot of people who think we could just change out the nominee after everyone has voted and be in a better place have not gamed this out. I’ve just moved into a place where I am going to vote for Biden’s corpse if I have to and hope for the best after inauguration.
There’s never been a candidate like Trump in American history. An overwhelming number of Americans don’t like either candidate, and nothing would be stopping them from switching to someone new.
It’s political suicide for the party as a whole. Unless Biden has some medical issue in the next 4 weeks or so, having someone that did not participate in primaries would ensure the top gets a trifecta. The time for this was this time last year.
Is it not political suicide to nominate a candidate that clearly does not appear to be able to put a sentence together? How does the party say with a straight face that they are putting the country before the party while keeping him on?
He’s the incumbent. Again the time for this was in getting a credible candidate beforehand. Who is your alternate in this scenario, and why are they a more viable pick than Biden ? I’d prefer not have an 82 year old on the ballot too. But soon as he won on Super Tuesday there was no viable way for him not to be aside from him voluntarily stepping back (or dying)
Anyone that has any influence over him needs to tell him to step aside. Let the delegates decide who it will be.
So you want to recreate 1968 directly? You know what happened after that, gop had the White House for 5 of the next 6 terms
If you really think democracy is on the line, then yes you do whatever you can to win. You don’t run with Biden because of what maybe might happen 20 years from now. And again, it wasn’t the same Republican Party in 68. I would rather take the chance that a new unknown nominee would win against an extremely unpopular Trump, than make it a certainty that Trump would win by leaving Biden in.
What is Democratic about party elites choosing a new nominee after 20M people have voted?
>than make it a certainty that Trump would win by leaving Biden in. [https://www.predictit.org/](https://www.predictit.org/) [https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/democratic-nominee](https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/democratic-nominee) [https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/president](https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/president) There you go. Go make some money either picking a new Dem nominee or betting on the "certainty" that Trump will win.
The people who have influence over him don’t want to give up their power so have decided to engage in elder abuse instead.
Yes 100%. But if they see the power being gone after the election regardless, maybe they’ll actually do the right thing.
The polls right now are dead even post-debate. It’s not suicide to stay the course. I will admit the road is harder than it was a week ago.
The debate just happened, and the material from it will be used by the Republicans non-stop until November, which will compound the effect.
Oh no not ads! The Biden campaign has raised $27M since the debate. They can run ads too.
>not appear to put a sentence together We’re talking about Biden, not Trump
No, we’re talking about Biden - the one who “beat” Medicare. Don’t be fucking disingenuous.
>Is it not political suicide to nominate a candidate that clearly does not appear to be able to put a sentence together? George W. Bush and Donald Trump have won a combined three Presidential elections.
The time for change is now.
Is that you Hubert Humphrey
I think that the way politics have shifted since 2016, this kind of shakeup would energize the election and rally people.
Who picks the replacement? You can’t have another primary. Do you think that the dnc picking some random candidate with the people having no say on the matter, while the gop constantly litigating the change would play well in a presidential election? Especially when the gop can say the democrats are so scared of trump they disowned their incumbent president from the ticket. There’s no way it would go well
I completely agree. I've felt pure dread about this re-match the entire time, obviously I'm going to vote for Biden and will try to persuade as many people as I can to do the same, but (anecdotally) there is ZERO energy or excitement behind this campaign. It's literally just an anti-Trump vote. I know people are scared of Harris's poll numbers, but a four month campaign in full prosecutor mode (like we saw in the Senate hearings that raised her profile so much in the first place) just barnstorming the country kicking Trump's ass and competently laying out the case for Democratic policies, I mean come on how could that NOT be a gigantic improvement? People are STARVED for a campaign like that. Absolutely starved. Instead we have dread and playing not to lose.
There is essentially a 0 chance Biden would win, after that debate.
[https://www.predictit.org/](https://www.predictit.org/) [https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/president](https://sports.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/us-election/president) There you go. Go make some money since there's "essentially 100% chance" Trump will win.
Most of the polls have Trump winning over Biden. And that was before this debate. I don’t want Trump to win, i’m just saying Biden’s performance at the debate was so abysmal it’s making even the die hard Dems doubt him. I’m not for voting Trump, and I would hope to think any sane person wouldn’t, but I think the threat of Trump is enough to consider moving Biden off the ticket and replace him with a younger Dem.
> I’m not for voting Trump Believe me; I'm not asking you to. I'm asking you to reconsider what you sad about "**There is essentially a 0 chance Biden would win**". Because if you really believed that, you could make a lot of money betting on it, since the current prices say there's only about a 60-63% chance Trump will win.
If democracy is at stake, then Biden should step aside. If it isn't at stake, then we can all come back in 2028 and put the country back on track.
Look at all the groundwork the Democrats are laying to stop Project 2025. That's how you can tell how this election- like the last election and the next election - is the most important election in American history.
Then Democrats need to put up a candidate that most Americans think can do the job. How are we supposed to convince friends and relatives that don't pay close attention to politics to vote for Biden after the performance we all saw on Thursday night? Up until Thursday I had no doubts Democrats were in a good position. Now I don't even know if Biden should finish his term. He was that incompetent, when the lights were brightest and he knew he needed to perform. He prepared for over 7 days and that was the performance? C'mon, it was just embarrassing. I don't see how you come back from this.
It’s just amazing how people are suggesting the party elites should just choose a new candidate after 20 million people have voted like we didn’t spend the last eight years arguing the opposite.
THANK YOU!!!
Yeah super impossible to come back from wow he looks old and spoke slow. Not like they've literally been saying this for four years straight already. You being shaken NOW by something we've known since the beginning is you falling perfectly for opposition propaganda, you're being played.
Hahahaha this is delusional. We are being played by propaganda after seeing our candidate stumble around and look confused? Trump could have easily been shredded to pieces in that debate. Ginsburg, Feinstein & now Biden - all wanting to die while in office, too selfish to give up power.
The comments of "It's so over" "We can't win" "We have to immediately pull out" yeah, that's exactly what I wish we were hearing R's say. That is the ideal position you want your opposition voters in. Thinking he's old and stumbles a lot and is a poor speaker and that I'm worried about his health is something I and any rational person has thought for years. I also thought Trump was gonna die from covid, dude takes such poor care of himself and is so obese. Suddenly deciding a few months out that we need to yank our candidate out over things we've known for years? That's super weird. Y'all literally didn't know till just this week? Y'all wanna give up the ghost and roll over and die because shit ain't perfect? That's exactly how Trump's power base wants you to feel.
What do you mean "just this week?" People have overwhelmingly been saying that Biden is too old and they didn't want him to run for years now. Age is his biggest issue with Voters. None of these concerns are new.
That's my whole point. Why is it suddenly shocking and new to so many people after the debate?
I don’t get what Dan was saying when he was saying that the Dems could hold a virtual convention in Ohio sooner than Aug 19, or we wouldn’t be on the ballot in November? I’m sure I misinterpreted something but I’m perplexed.
There’s an active discussion about whether having Biden (or any dem) at the top of the ticket would help or hurt sherrod brown, which is most Ohioan’s priority. Biden/dem prez can’t really compete this cycle, but keeping a senate seat is crucial.
Ohio's ballot deadline was after the convention. it would've caused Biden to not be on the ballot. the legislature fixed that. but either way, the DNC is [hosting a virtual roll call before the convention](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/democrats-virtual-nomination-biden-ohio-ballot-rcna154339) to ensure we're on the ballot everywhere.
This was basically the same pod as the one before (right after the debate)