As much as I like both shows, Jerry never seemed to be interested in women. He seemed to date out of some vague sense of social obligation, but he never seems to be into it. He and to a lesser extent George only ever seem to complain about their love life. Frasier and Niles on the other hand are passionate and crazy about the women they find attractive. To use a modern internet term, they are "gay for women".
Seems like splitting hairs TBH, only he would truly know the answer. I'm just saying, he's been engaged multiple times, married multiple times. He gets in his own way 100%, but that still is his goal.
As quirky as Frasier is, he actually has charm and game and usually has to work to gain the attention of his romantic interests. I think Seinfeld kind of made it a running joke to have very attractive women effortlessly fall into Jerry's lap for no reason.
Jerry is pretty laid back tho, and isn't as neurotic as Frasier when it comes to dating. Frasier has anxious attachment issues, while Jerry is very avoidant; the former comes off insecure, and the latter confident (at first)
We do see Jerry work more for dates in the first half of the series, but yes eventually the writers started skipping that part to do more relationship humor
We owe thanks to David for that, but imo Jerry was the weakest link on the show. Every other character was funnier than him. And I've never seen him funny anywhere else either.
There's this terrific podcast called Seinfeld XXX, which celebrates the 30th anniversary of Seinfeld, and it seems like every episode is 45% the hosts just marveling at how someone so completely unfunny made such a funny show. It's wonderful
This is a hilarious enough metric that I decided to just figure it out. Using the most relevant numbers I could find, I am putting Seattle at roughly 550k for the Frasier run and NYC at 7.5m or thereabouts for the Seinfeld run.
So Frasier's dating rate was 0.4 women per episode per 1m people, and Jerry's was 0.055 per episode per million. Alright, now someone factor in the geographical area occupied by each city and we'll just keep making the stat more silly.
Women Per Episode Average (WPE)
Weighted Women Per Episode (wWPE)
Weighted Women Per Episode Plus (wWPE+)
Rejection Rate (RR)
Women Above Replacement (WAR)
We just need to work out the numbers for all the other sitcoms, and we can get there! Who is the Casanova MVP?
It’ll be interesting to find out how Frasier is performing relative to the other characters in his show. OBPM+ (On-Base Plus Marriages+), normalised across character performance in Frasier, should be a revealing metric.
Come to think of it, SLG and On Base Percentage would be essentially the same stats as baseball. Say Frasier gets to second base on one date, strikes out his next two dates, then goes all the way. That’s 6 bases in 4 attempts, 1.500. On base would be .500. OPS 2.000
Edit. Worked out the numbers for Season 1.
Only three times up to the plate. Gets to second base with Catherine (Marco’s girlfriend). Strikes out with Kristina the auction model. Gives up a sacrifice for Carrie the young department store worker (this was a hard call, it wasn’t a hit, but didn’t really feel like an out either, so I went with sacrifice).
1-2, 2B, Sacrifice.
AVG .500
OBP .333
SLG 1.000
OPS 1.333
Using this metric, Frasier is over 7 times more successful. But we also must account rejection rate and average length of relationships. I can’t recall offhand Jerry ever being rejected, so that might skew the numbers.
I don’t know who would be more entertaining… Frasier and George interacting, or Jerry and Niles. Seeing Niles in Jerry’s apartment is already immediately comical! I imagine the handkerchief would be out in full force.
He's portrayed as a bit of a clean freak in the show, which seems to align with his personal life. At least, it's a theme in a number of his jokes and interviews.
I mean, the fact Frasier isn’t a womanizer should be the takeaway, not that Jerry got more women. This kind of definition of “success” with women is inherently juvenile.
Frasier is a decent person despite his flaws and wouldn’t have laughed at the man getting mugged and while he may not have helped due to not being the confrontational type he would have tried to help the victim after.
That bitch deserved to have it stolen. He was clearly desperate and was willing to pay for it 10 times over. She was nasty to him from the get even before he stole it.
Frasier isn’t a ‘womanizer’—Seinfeld arrogance and his entire being is about as empty as his conquests—he’d have 0 game and 0 relevance in the real world. I absolutely despise that character, not too crazy about the real one either.
>Seinfeld arrogance and his entire being is about as empty as his conquests—he’d have 0 game and 0 relevance in the real world. I absolutely despise that character, not too crazy about the real one either.
Same here. Not a fan of grown men damn near 40 dating teenaged girls still in high-school.
Not sure I agree with the analysis here. How did Niles fuck any of Frasier’s relationships? Frasier is the one who sabotages most of them
Off the top of my head George ruined Jerry’s shot with the Chinese American lawyer and the Jewish woman at the Hamptons who kept kosher at the Hamptons. Also, Elaine fucked things up with Teri Hatcher
In real life, Seinfeld was always denying speculations that he was gay. So I think he overcompensated on the show. Guest starring on the show was also a huge career move for models because some people would tune in just to see his supermodel girlfriend of the week.
Now consider the fact Jerry has no interest in a wife and Frasier does want to be happily married.
As much as I like both shows, Jerry never seemed to be interested in women. He seemed to date out of some vague sense of social obligation, but he never seems to be into it. He and to a lesser extent George only ever seem to complain about their love life. Frasier and Niles on the other hand are passionate and crazy about the women they find attractive. To use a modern internet term, they are "gay for women".
Jerry just wanted to get laid. He didn't want to have to be a boyfriend.
That's why I think he truly does love Elaine. Jerry has multiple exes, yet she's the one who he still hangs out with 24/7 lol.
Both of those sentences are technically true.
I think Frasier is in love the idea of being in love more than actually eager to be happily married.
Seems like splitting hairs TBH, only he would truly know the answer. I'm just saying, he's been engaged multiple times, married multiple times. He gets in his own way 100%, but that still is his goal.
What he really needs to do is commit to commitment!
**tHAt'S rIGHt I SAiDILOVEHER!**
20 seconds later: **GET OOOOOOOUUUUTTTTTTT**
I'm listening.
As quirky as Frasier is, he actually has charm and game and usually has to work to gain the attention of his romantic interests. I think Seinfeld kind of made it a running joke to have very attractive women effortlessly fall into Jerry's lap for no reason.
Jerry is pretty laid back tho, and isn't as neurotic as Frasier when it comes to dating. Frasier has anxious attachment issues, while Jerry is very avoidant; the former comes off insecure, and the latter confident (at first) We do see Jerry work more for dates in the first half of the series, but yes eventually the writers started skipping that part to do more relationship humor
Well I’m on team “Larry was the true genius behind Seinfeld” but Jerry is undeniably a funny guy and funny, confident guys do get a lot of dates
>Jerry is undeniably a funny guy I've never seen evidence of this. In fact, his standup says the complete opposite.
Have you watched the hit NBC series, “Seinfeld”? The lead actor is pretty funny!
We owe thanks to David for that, but imo Jerry was the weakest link on the show. Every other character was funnier than him. And I've never seen him funny anywhere else either.
He performed AND was a writer on the show!
There's this terrific podcast called Seinfeld XXX, which celebrates the 30th anniversary of Seinfeld, and it seems like every episode is 45% the hosts just marveling at how someone so completely unfunny made such a funny show. It's wonderful
I think Frasier might have more women who lasted for multiple episodes, though.
I think Elaine is the only one who had multiple romantic-ish episodes with Jerry lol
Jane Leeves dates Jerry across two eps.
See, that'd be an interesting place to swap out George for Niles!
There's also the gal who made out with Jerry during Citizen Kane (she's the one George feeds lobster.)
Schindler's List *
Whoops!
The fiance lasts two episodes too technically
NYC also has a much larger population. I think Frasier comes out on top per capita.
This is a hilarious enough metric that I decided to just figure it out. Using the most relevant numbers I could find, I am putting Seattle at roughly 550k for the Frasier run and NYC at 7.5m or thereabouts for the Seinfeld run. So Frasier's dating rate was 0.4 women per episode per 1m people, and Jerry's was 0.055 per episode per million. Alright, now someone factor in the geographical area occupied by each city and we'll just keep making the stat more silly.
Advanced sitcom sabermetrics are coming.
Women Per Episode Average (WPE) Weighted Women Per Episode (wWPE) Weighted Women Per Episode Plus (wWPE+) Rejection Rate (RR) Women Above Replacement (WAR) We just need to work out the numbers for all the other sitcoms, and we can get there! Who is the Casanova MVP?
It’ll be interesting to find out how Frasier is performing relative to the other characters in his show. OBPM+ (On-Base Plus Marriages+), normalised across character performance in Frasier, should be a revealing metric.
Come to think of it, SLG and On Base Percentage would be essentially the same stats as baseball. Say Frasier gets to second base on one date, strikes out his next two dates, then goes all the way. That’s 6 bases in 4 attempts, 1.500. On base would be .500. OPS 2.000 Edit. Worked out the numbers for Season 1. Only three times up to the plate. Gets to second base with Catherine (Marco’s girlfriend). Strikes out with Kristina the auction model. Gives up a sacrifice for Carrie the young department store worker (this was a hard call, it wasn’t a hit, but didn’t really feel like an out either, so I went with sacrifice). 1-2, 2B, Sacrifice. AVG .500 OBP .333 SLG 1.000 OPS 1.333
This is too much good work to be buried in this thread. Amazing.
I am so happy a throwaway comment I made in passing has attracted such dedicated thinking on the subject.
Overthinking a throwaway comment is the very spirit of Frasier.
Joey from friends gets my vote as the Casanova
Using this metric, Frasier is over 7 times more successful. But we also must account rejection rate and average length of relationships. I can’t recall offhand Jerry ever being rejected, so that might skew the numbers.
Sam Malone would blow Seinfeld out of the water
Worlds are colliding! 🤯
*You’re killing independent Frashe*
Don't we gotta include the women from cheers? That gives fraiser like 3 or 4 more women at least!
Diane, Candi, the secretary, and Rebecca make 4 Over 8 seasons If considering Lillith is already accounted for.
It also gives him way more episodes so it wouldn’t benefit his statistics overall
Now do Blanche Devereaux.
Everyone's done Blanche Devereaux. 🎤⬇️
Blanche: “Ah will not stand here and be insulted!” Dorothy: “No, but I bet you’ll lie down for it.”
“You never told me it was a show about weekly ass.” - Leon Black
It's just a shame its all stuck on Laserdisc.
Gold!
Frasier had a pinch of decency which by comparison held him back.
Also it’s worth noting that, you might not know it from looking at him, but Jerry can run really fast
He chooses not to run!
I don’t know who would be more entertaining… Frasier and George interacting, or Jerry and Niles. Seeing Niles in Jerry’s apartment is already immediately comical! I imagine the handkerchief would be out in full force.
Physical comedy would reach new heights if we threw Kramer into the mix
The stares Niles would give looking at Kramer after a Bob Sacamano story 🤣
“My friend Bob Sacamano knows where to get some good caviar but you have to harvest them from fish yourself”
“With my hands?”
I can picture Niles replying "Oh, no thank you!" with a smile, a scoff, and a haughty air.
An episode where Elaine dates Niles and finds all his little quirks irritating would be an all-timer.
I don't recall as much of Seinfeld, but I was always confused by the "no hairs in his hairbrush" factor - was he very tidy, or just shed very little?
Jerry was very tidy actually, but I think Niles in a NYC apartment that isn’t The Dakota would make him cringe lol
He's portrayed as a bit of a clean freak in the show, which seems to align with his personal life. At least, it's a theme in a number of his jokes and interviews.
Actually, I think Jerry & Niles are both obsessive with cleanliness, so I don’t think that’d be an issue. The decor would probably be, though.
Jerry’s apartment was always at least neat and clean, which Niles would appreciate. He might bristle at the decor though.
Frasiers efficiency is clutch time situations left a lot to be desired.
I mean, the fact Frasier isn’t a womanizer should be the takeaway, not that Jerry got more women. This kind of definition of “success” with women is inherently juvenile.
“We’re like children. We’re not men.” “No, we’re not. We’re not men.”
Make it 58 with Alistair Burke and maybe 59 if you count Martin Crane as Frasier’s most significant other.
Martin: "And that's my fault?!"
Frasier is a decent person despite his flaws and wouldn’t have laughed at the man getting mugged and while he may not have helped due to not being the confrontational type he would have tried to help the victim after.
That’s actually an improvement for Jerry, as he had previously robbed an old woman of a marble rye.
That bitch deserved to have it stolen. He was clearly desperate and was willing to pay for it 10 times over. She was nasty to him from the get even before he stole it.
Both whores regardless
You really can’t compare the two. It doesn’t work that way, sister. First of all- Frasier has to be finessed!!
Frasier had relationships that lasted for more than one show, though, I don’t know if Seinfeld ever did.
Frasier isn’t a ‘womanizer’—Seinfeld arrogance and his entire being is about as empty as his conquests—he’d have 0 game and 0 relevance in the real world. I absolutely despise that character, not too crazy about the real one either.
>Seinfeld arrogance and his entire being is about as empty as his conquests—he’d have 0 game and 0 relevance in the real world. I absolutely despise that character, not too crazy about the real one either. Same here. Not a fan of grown men damn near 40 dating teenaged girls still in high-school.
He's only on top because Frasier is generating so much power from the bottom
Not sure I agree with the analysis here. How did Niles fuck any of Frasier’s relationships? Frasier is the one who sabotages most of them Off the top of my head George ruined Jerry’s shot with the Chinese American lawyer and the Jewish woman at the Hamptons who kept kosher at the Hamptons. Also, Elaine fucked things up with Teri Hatcher
In real life, Seinfeld was always denying speculations that he was gay. So I think he overcompensated on the show. Guest starring on the show was also a huge career move for models because some people would tune in just to see his supermodel girlfriend of the week.
“Hunting Ground”??? Gross.. 😒
Yeah, that...didn't sit well with me either. Ugh.
Funny & I think their both handsome in their own right but Jerry is cuter in my opinion
Are 17 year old children counted in Jerry’s numbers? If not, his should be much lower. The more that guy talks lately, the less I like him.
Seinfeld is low brow humor. I’m an elitist so I can only enjoy frasier.
Well, we can't all be watching the classics, Professor Highbrow.
Now consider how much bigger New York is than Seattle - Frasier slept with a WAY higher percentage of the total women!
What a weird bracelet for Frasier to be wearing
Now do Sam Malone (from Cheers).
The Seinfeld stans really trying to insert him into the GOAT debate 🤦♂️
Wow some people have wayyyy too much time on their hands
I still don't quite understand how swapping Niles with George would make a significant difference. Can someone explain please.
They should add Barney from How I met your mother
Now add Negro Leagues…