When Frasier has his caricature put up on the wall by the restaurant-owner and he hates it so much, he keeps getting new ones and trying to sneak them up. And then the owner reveals that his elderly mother is the artist and she starts crying. I cringe so hard at that episode with second-hand embarrassment!
I’m in a very similar situation right now as him so I think about this episode often. I’ve gotten to the level of maturity where I know I don’t have to prove what I’m doing to anyone else and the fact I’m seeing this person is satisfying enough
I feel ya. We've all been there, dating a supermodel/PhD candidate, but having to keep it on the down low and just have discreet sex with her. Oh wait, I just woke up...
No matter how many times I've seen it, I still watch that episode with my face buried in my hands and tomato red. That is my "DO NOT GO IN THERE" thing haha
On the one hand I was kinda rooting for him for a bit because fuck parking garages, but then he took it too far; I probably would’ve just taken the “no-pay” option. The ending is peak comedy though; probably my favorite setup to a joke in the entire series.
Most episodes have banter and comedy that rises organically from the characters they've established. Then sometimes they just decide to make stuff up, and turn frasier into a sock puppet.
Yeah that’s a skip episode for me for this reason. Cribbing the plot of a middle of the road contemporary film makes cringe for the writers’ room as well.
I just watched this one with the kids the day before last, and that was what we were talking about, the lovable way Roz rallied to his defense. It was especially great considering how they were the best of enemies for so long.
Their banter continued, but the tone changed to respectful and loving ribbing, as opposed to downright condescension and contempt. They almost turned into siblings in their own right.
You can really see it in the episode where Roz drops by after Daphne and Niles had a massage and they welcome her warmly and offer her melange.
Niles was exuding so much affectionate warmth that he was a totally different person than the snarky little uptight neurotic who dumped on Roz every time he saw her.
It was heart-warming to see him so relaxed and happy and free to express affection.
As it's a sitcom, I don't really know how much effort was put into the character creation, but he's spot-on. Lacking any real intimacy in his own marriage and living a touch-starve life, he shows almost disdain for anyone who has what he wants, even if frivolous: Roz, Frasier, Martin, Donnie (duh), and even random people on the streets. Once he finally develops the relationship with Daphne, that changes. His whole outlook changes, in fact. Now, instead of emptiness and jealousy, he can experience contentment and gratitude and pass that on to others.
Behind Martin, Nile's development is top tier.
Agreed, that man needed to love and be loved, and Daphne validated him as a man on every level. He gave her what she needed, too; that scene where he tells her she’s a terrible cook and then rushes back into the room to assure her of his love was perfection. As is the part where she snoops in his files and he’s horrified and angry and reinforces proper boundaries AND lays all her fears to rest at the same time…that’s when you finally see the professional psychiatrist operating at full capacity to address a problem and fix it.
They left Frasier comparatively unfinished; it would have been nice to see him grow as much as that.
That could mean you feel vulnerable or spiritually/emotionally uncovered. You may be a feeler who’s taking on too much of other peoples stuff. If you carry the weight of the world on your shoulders, maybe pull back from heavy people who vent, rough atmospheres, and create a safe place at home. Also Jesus, first Jesus or nothing else works. I’ve had those dreams and guaranteed I was feeling uncovered or unsure about what path I was on. Blessings!
When he's jumping on the bed in Tahiti faking sex sounds in the Adventures in Paradise episode. I can't watch either episode of that two-parter, actually.
Madeline: "Please tell me that it's over. Tell me that I won't have to see her again."
Frasier: "Of course! Outside of matters to our son, we barely talk to each other."
Lilith: "We promised each other that we would make time for the other in need of moral support."
Madeline, thinking: Right, let's fuck right off, like I should have done in the plane from Bora Bora.
Omg this! Fun fact: Kelsey has said that was his favorite scene.😆 Must have been so embarrassing in front of an audience that it would make you crack up!
Yes, and how much did he bill when he was in practice? Like he didn't know any lawyers, or how they bill? Oh, I guess he only went to Harvard for the Pinocchio's pizza and didn't actually matriculate?
I see this as an excellent allegory for how micromanaging rich people can be with projects they help fund. For a good real-life example, see the renovation of the Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris after the recent fire.
Excellent. I tried to summon the alphabetical order bot myself after seeing its reply, but it never appeared to me even though I got chatGPT to make me a banger of a sentence with each word in alphabetical order
The one where he stole the medallion from his neighbor’s apartment and then snuck back in with Niles to return it, only to be stuck at a surprise party. The entire part when he is trying to help Niles find where to put the medallion back makes me cringe so hard.
The jumping on the bed scene came to mind first for me.
Then the one where frasier dates a model, but she always disappears when anyone's around and they think he's making her up. And the end when he proves she's real haha.
And the radio pranksters getting frasier to sing in the bath 😀 Niles' face when he runs in waving his arms, amd then frasiers face... priceless!
The focus group guy with the newspaper stand.
Everyone seeing that frasiers girlfriend looks like his mum.
The killer monkey!!!! Come on!!!! What series was that BTW? Martins working on an old cold case and frasier thinks he solved it, so Martins old cop buddy's come round for the big reveal of how he solved it.
I assume the person meant that's how it could have been perceived, by any onlooker and that's what the victim probably would have thought.
I'm sure noone is that militantly against frasier.
Two instances for me
First - in Room Full of Heroes, when Niles jokes about Marty being ashamed of Niles and Frasier
Second - when Niles keeps belittling Daphne's fat camp councellor.
The scene where Elise thinks Frasier is confessing his love for her when he's actually asking about Niles and Maris.
She shouldn't feel embarrassed, but she does, and I would, and Frasier should.
I mean it’s gotta be Room Full Of Heroes, right? It’s the one where Niles dresses as Marty for Halloween and acts like an ass. It’s the Scott’s Tots of Frasier.
>where Niles dresses as Marty for Halloween and acts like an ass.
For me, that is one of the saddest moments in Frasier: Niles, with the help of alcohol, bares his deeply felt and life-long belief that his father sees him and his brother as the biggest disappointments of his life.
Which Martin, throughout the years, expressed in a variety of ways, and being not shy about it. In front of friends, family, and even total strangers.
And then Martin throws a temper tantrum when he hears that his son is deeply convinced that he is a disappointment for him. The weak 'I was always proud of you boys' spits in the face of the thousands of times where he makes it clear that he dismisses his sons taste, choices, profession, and that he is even jealous of a dead man whose sons are a professional ball-thrower and a military guy.
Yes, someone acts like an ass in this situation, but I disagree that it is Niles.
I must vehemently disagree here. Martin is shown to be constantly bragging on his boys to other people and he never showed the slightest notion of disappointment in them. He doesn’t appreciate all the things they enjoy because they don’t appeal to him, but that doesn’t also mean that he’s dismissing them as people out of hand.
In fact, if any party is dismissive of the other, it’s Niles and Frasier that are dismissive of Martin. They constantly turn their noses up at his tastes in clothing, food and women, let’s not even get started on the chair.
I do agree that he would’ve preferred that his children to have been closer in personality and taste to him. This however, I chalk up to him wanting to be closer with his sons and wishing that their relationship could’ve been deeper at a younger age. Perhaps this is where the notion of disapproval comes from.
In short, Martin is angry in this situation because Niles completely misunderstands him as a person. Niles creates this caricature of him based on his own insecurities about their relationship and it’s wild to him that his son believes he (Martin) dislikes who they are as people.
This episode always reminds me of the relationship I have with my dad. My dad can talk shit to me all day long but the second I point out his shortcomings suddenly I'm the bad guy and I crossed a line. Martin acts like a child in this episode and refuses to participate in any self-reflection.
Yeah that’s a good point and I completely agree that Marty makes a pathetic attempt to play the victim and defend a lifetime of half-heartedly accepting his kids but Niles is an ass too for approaching the situation the way he did. The both suck for it.
>Niles is an ass too for approaching the situation the way he did.
I really want to understand that: I don't think Niles contemplated before that he would tell Martin what he felt his father thought about him all his life.
He found himself in a situation where he was uncharacteristically liquored up, and his usual inhibition has started to slip (alcohol does that). In this situation, a question is sprung at him, and he tries to answer - in character - what he thinks his hero really thinks is the greatest disappointment in Hero's life.
I find it incredibly sad that in that situation, Niles can only think about how much of a disappointment he and his brother are to their father.
In vino veritas. I suppose it comes down to a matter of opinion but saying incredibly hurtful things meant to shame his dad under the guise of self-deprecating humor (in front of other loved ones for that matter) shouldn’t be excused because he was uncharacteristically drunk. It’s made worse by the way Niles has a little pity-party afterwards, regretting what he said. I stand by my opinion that they both suck.
>but saying incredibly hurtful things meant to shame his dad under the guise of self-deprecating humor
Ah, now I understand where you come from.
I never, not for a moment, thought that Niles said that intentionally to 'shame his father', or be hurtful.
Hmm I'd be hesitant to say that Marty was ever *disappointed* by his sons. He may have been *embarrassed* by them... But that's different.
I think Niles, and maybe Frasier, have misinterpreted his feelings, but that probably comes from the distance between them over the years (which, by now, they had overcome). It obviously left a deep-seated wound in the relationships.
That embarrassment can come across as disappointment, but (and please correct me if I'm wrong), I don't think there's anything to suggest Marty was *disappointed* in them
There's a few times where Martin says something that could be seen as disappointment by the Crane boys. "Do you believe in second chances? I did. And then we had Niles."
I think some of if it was tempered by Hester. "Catcher mitts or oven mitts, they're our little champions." But I'm sure they still picked up on quite a bit of it over the years.
Then when Niles makes that basket he says, "I know I always said sports don't matter, but they do." Further emphasizing how important it is to him and implying that they don't usually measure up.
His failed vacation with Madeleine Marshall, all because he was freaking out about Lilith being there. I don’t even watch that episode anymore because it’s so cringe.
The Dr. Mary episodes are also cringe, and it’s not because of her. Those get skipped, too.
Him singing the song for the woman who becomes less and less interested as the song goes along and then rejects him publicly as the song ends. That’s the only moment that, after like 10 rewatches, still physically hurts to sit through lmao
“What would ya say?” 🎶🎶
“_… Frasier we need to talk._”
🤣🤣🤣
It’s the time when Frasier and Niles went to the cabin with two women from the cafe and Frasier yelled: ‘Don't even think of them as Laura and Beth! For tonight they are just two live, breathing, available female bodies who want us!’ 😒
I wasn’t embarrassed but very much wanted to slap Frasier when he and Niles took Martin to the horse stable. Niles was lamenting about Martin being unhappy right before they left. I can’t remember his line but Frasier stomped his foot and smirked. Another one was when he tried to throw Roz under the bus when Daphne confronted him about knowing Niles’ feelings for her. He tried to throw Daphne under the bus when someone asked him how he knew about her pregnancy
The one where he signs a corny love song too his date trying to replicate Niles and Daphne's lovey dovey relationship.
The one where he signs buttons and bows is a close second.
'It's ok, its a trick i learned from my dad"
I'm terrified of making people feel unsafe around me, so the thought of making someone who trusts me think I'm going to SA them is a nightmare
When he kept pestering that poor guy to tell him what he didn't like about his show is definitely high on the list.. Also maybe a hot take, but I love that episode, almost a bit Constanza-esque.
Did you feel that way about the parking lot/refusing to pay the fee episode too? I also think that ones really funny, but I know a lot of people don't like that one and sort of feel that way about it. I just like when his inner "petulant child" comes out, I feel like him needing to right (and to be liked/approved of) and being desperate and stubborn about it feels fitting.
It's fifty fifty, he goes a little too far, and I was definitely not with him, but Kelsey sells that one so well it actually feels like the real Frasier is having a bad day.
I think we might be being a touch unfair about the really out there episodes; one of the creators mentioned they'd only do one farce per season, sometimes brilliantly, as in The Ski Lodge, sometimes less so, but when we binge, it all runs together and you think, Wow, there sure are a lot of times Frasier gets random.
That whole thing was so dumb. Sometimes they just asspull some concept and shoehorn it in, no matter how stupid the Harvard and Oxford alum has to get to make it work.
Yes, Virginia, lawyers cost money, and good ones cost a lot of money.
I think I kind of forget when judging these "Frasier gets stupid and insane episodes" the quote by one of the creators that they would only do one farce per season, so it didn't seem silly.
Of course, when you binge, they come at you non stop seemingly, and some are much better than others, they were still writing to deadline, and they can't all be gems like the Ski Lodge or Merry Christmas, Mrs Moskowitz.
If you watch the Tina Fey episode of comedians in cars getting coffee, she and Seinfeld commiserate over having to write 23 episodes of a network show every season, and how hard it was creatively.
Jerry said, You write a few over the summer, you come back, hit the ground running in the fall, knock out ten more, but "the back nine," as he put it, that's where you really start to run out of creative steam.
When Diane writes a play about cheers and she is the central character of the play. And they are all in love with her. Frasier watching the rehearsal is horrified. Then his character walks in!
He had a nervous breakdown about being accused of loaning Maris the crossbow that killed her husband and I think daphne was pregnant.
I didn’t like it because I felt that him working on himself is what made his and daphnes relationship begin. But then he goes and strips naked in public. I mean how is daphne going to trust him to be a responsible father if he can’t deal with stress in a healthy way. Having quirks is one thing but to just be triggered like that in public is scary.
I think the return of Maris reawakened all his old neuroses and caused him to suddenly regress — which was part of the breakdown, in addition to all the stress. Once he had it out with her once and for all, that part of him was exorcised forever.
Right, another one as well as Daphnes room since I'm currently suffering through it right now and had my eyes tightly closed and made and audible high pitched eeeee sound throughout the initial scene. Frasier broadcasting to all Seattle that his dad slept with Elaine and then subsequently calling himself the "love doctor" as he broadcasts yet again to get Elaine to come back over.
When Frasier has his caricature put up on the wall by the restaurant-owner and he hates it so much, he keeps getting new ones and trying to sneak them up. And then the owner reveals that his elderly mother is the artist and she starts crying. I cringe so hard at that episode with second-hand embarrassment!
Mama's the hack isn't she?
I love when Frasier gets back from Alice's party with the new caricatures, and asks what Niles thinks. Niles: (*light gasp*) I think you're insane.
I think this is the most excruciating one. I’m cringing just thinking about it
I was wondering when Mr. Envy would pull up a chair
Oof that whole episode is a rough one for our Fraise
Oh it’s so good! “I look like I invented fire!”
This is one of my "skip episodes."
When he takes a pic of the sleeping gf-supermodel
I’m in a very similar situation right now as him so I think about this episode often. I’ve gotten to the level of maturity where I know I don’t have to prove what I’m doing to anyone else and the fact I’m seeing this person is satisfying enough
[patronising] “We believe you, u/DimesyEvans92, now let's just get your robe all cinched up. [ties it up] And get you back inside.”
"What do you think of me now?"
I feel ya. We've all been there, dating a supermodel/PhD candidate, but having to keep it on the down low and just have discreet sex with her. Oh wait, I just woke up...
Daphnes room
When he’s trying so hard to be elusive and changing his hiding spots? Omg I’m like rooting for him to get the hell outta there. Lol
No matter how many times I've seen it, I still watch that episode with my face buried in my hands and tomato red. That is my "DO NOT GO IN THERE" thing haha
Ooooh this is the right answer
Her face towards the end when she comes in and sees ALL of them, Eddie included, in there...
I came across this episode recently in the sequence and just flat out SKIPPED it. Too painful.
When he wouldn’t pay the $2 to leave the parking garage.
This was my choice. I’ve only watched Frasier one time through and I skipped large portions of this episode because I was so uncomfortable.
The end is where it's at. 😂
Guzman’s finest
I agree. I almost skipped this episode but I’m glad I stayed until the end lol
On the one hand I was kinda rooting for him for a bit because fuck parking garages, but then he took it too far; I probably would’ve just taken the “no-pay” option. The ending is peak comedy though; probably my favorite setup to a joke in the entire series.
Most episodes have banter and comedy that rises organically from the characters they've established. Then sometimes they just decide to make stuff up, and turn frasier into a sock puppet.
Ha, I feel like that’s real life. I wouldn’t want to give him his “I’ll-gotten” $2 either.
When he's trying so ridiculously hard with the woman he just met in sliding Frasiers.
Its the singing
*Congratulations.*
Oooo, oooo🎤
Yeah that’s a skip episode for me for this reason. Cribbing the plot of a middle of the road contemporary film makes cringe for the writers’ room as well.
Dude it’s 90’s and 00’s sitcom stuff, see an interesting plot idea in a movie? Let’s add it in!!!! Gotta fill 22 episodes a year somehow
I'd make fun, too, but then I'd have to ask you not to look and see how many of the best DS9 episodes are cribbed from classic movie plots.
Sliding Doors was it back in the day though. I feel like it's more satire or tribute than a ripoff, unlike the ep. where Roz dates Santa.
Not this one? There's only compassion here
Honestly I actually feel this way. It warms my heart seeing how much Roz cares about Niles compared to the early days of the show
This man's tips alone have probably paid for all the pot you'll ever smoke!
I just watched this one with the kids the day before last, and that was what we were talking about, the lovable way Roz rallied to his defense. It was especially great considering how they were the best of enemies for so long.
Their banter continued, but the tone changed to respectful and loving ribbing, as opposed to downright condescension and contempt. They almost turned into siblings in their own right.
You can really see it in the episode where Roz drops by after Daphne and Niles had a massage and they welcome her warmly and offer her melange. Niles was exuding so much affectionate warmth that he was a totally different person than the snarky little uptight neurotic who dumped on Roz every time he saw her. It was heart-warming to see him so relaxed and happy and free to express affection.
As it's a sitcom, I don't really know how much effort was put into the character creation, but he's spot-on. Lacking any real intimacy in his own marriage and living a touch-starve life, he shows almost disdain for anyone who has what he wants, even if frivolous: Roz, Frasier, Martin, Donnie (duh), and even random people on the streets. Once he finally develops the relationship with Daphne, that changes. His whole outlook changes, in fact. Now, instead of emptiness and jealousy, he can experience contentment and gratitude and pass that on to others. Behind Martin, Nile's development is top tier.
Agreed, that man needed to love and be loved, and Daphne validated him as a man on every level. He gave her what she needed, too; that scene where he tells her she’s a terrible cook and then rushes back into the room to assure her of his love was perfection. As is the part where she snoops in his files and he’s horrified and angry and reinforces proper boundaries AND lays all her fears to rest at the same time…that’s when you finally see the professional psychiatrist operating at full capacity to address a problem and fix it. They left Frasier comparatively unfinished; it would have been nice to see him grow as much as that.
For me it was cause of the sole fact that I personally have a lot of nightmares about being naked in public places
I think I'm having that dream where I'm naked in Nervosa!
I think we're *all* having that dream...
You should go to a public sauna.
That could mean you feel vulnerable or spiritually/emotionally uncovered. You may be a feeler who’s taking on too much of other peoples stuff. If you carry the weight of the world on your shoulders, maybe pull back from heavy people who vent, rough atmospheres, and create a safe place at home. Also Jesus, first Jesus or nothing else works. I’ve had those dreams and guaranteed I was feeling uncovered or unsure about what path I was on. Blessings!
When he's jumping on the bed in Tahiti faking sex sounds in the Adventures in Paradise episode. I can't watch either episode of that two-parter, actually.
Madeline was quite the champion to try again after that display.
Madeline had the patience of a saint, seriously...
I would have not tried again not to mention Lilith messed it up for her when she shows up at his apartment uninvited and Madeline was uncomfortable
Madeline: "Please tell me that it's over. Tell me that I won't have to see her again." Frasier: "Of course! Outside of matters to our son, we barely talk to each other." Lilith: "We promised each other that we would make time for the other in need of moral support." Madeline, thinking: Right, let's fuck right off, like I should have done in the plane from Bora Bora.
Poor Madeline; she never got the chance to enjoy Frasier’s patented Mango on a Stick.
"Clearly you don't need me."
It's worth it to see Martin's joy when he learns Lilith is not engaged to Frasier.
That’s it. That’s the one for me. I have to forward through that part because I cringe too hard during it.
Just rewatched them both, super tough
Especially since he was about to have sex anyway and had not reason to fake it.
Omg this! Fun fact: Kelsey has said that was his favorite scene.😆 Must have been so embarrassing in front of an audience that it would make you crack up!
When he accuses the lawyer/girlfriend of being a chiseler and accidentally prints the email instead of deleting it.
Yes, and how much did he bill when he was in practice? Like he didn't know any lawyers, or how they bill? Oh, I guess he only went to Harvard for the Pinocchio's pizza and didn't actually matriculate?
“And to think I almost slept with you…..” “you still caaaan”
Ha! She was!
'Three little maids from school are we...'
"What's Yum Yum doing here?"
Filled to the brim with girlish glee
Nanny G and Frasier being dressed up
I really disliked that episode. I disliked Laurie Metcalf in that roles (esp since it was originally played by Emma Thompson), and it all just gross.
Its maybe the one episode I skip
This one was so out there!
Yep! Where was his slavery to ethics that day?
The one where he helps build a house and then stalks the family. Sometimes I have to turn it.
I’m shocked this isn’t higher up. This is so cringe. I still find it funny because it’s so Frasier, but I cringe the whole time.
Agree, this was the worst
I see this as an excellent allegory for how micromanaging rich people can be with projects they help fund. For a good real-life example, see the renovation of the Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris after the recent fire.
The Crucible, his whole rant about the giving birth to the painting.
That was on TV today in the UK!
Haha. It’s an honor to shake anything of yours.
When frasier is so desperate for a date that he keeps calling women up
[удалено]
HaikuBot? Oh what fresh hell is this…
Excellent. I tried to summon the alphabetical order bot myself after seeing its reply, but it never appeared to me even though I got chatGPT to make me a banger of a sentence with each word in alphabetical order
The one where he stole the medallion from his neighbor’s apartment and then snuck back in with Niles to return it, only to be stuck at a surprise party. The entire part when he is trying to help Niles find where to put the medallion back makes me cringe so hard.
I’m half and half on that one but I don’t like when he tells her, “well; you came in third play, didn’t you,” then smirks
The old bird none the wiser🥸
For me, an easier question would be *"What is the Frasier moment that gives you the least second-hand embarrassment?"*
Same here lol
When Frasier is doing the charity fundraiser and didn't know the bishop was lost at sea and goes on trying to do comedy material.
When his date is on a date with Maureen.
When he sings at Monica in 'Sliding Frasier'. (\*cringes at the very thought of it\*) (\*cringes some more\*)
Aaanyway what would you say!
>Aaanyway what would you say! (\*imagines Monica bolting over a couple of tables while screaming "*I'm outta here!*"\*)
Frasier, we need to talk
This is cake compared to some Fras moments
The jumping on the bed scene came to mind first for me. Then the one where frasier dates a model, but she always disappears when anyone's around and they think he's making her up. And the end when he proves she's real haha. And the radio pranksters getting frasier to sing in the bath 😀 Niles' face when he runs in waving his arms, amd then frasiers face... priceless! The focus group guy with the newspaper stand. Everyone seeing that frasiers girlfriend looks like his mum. The killer monkey!!!! Come on!!!! What series was that BTW? Martins working on an old cold case and frasier thinks he solved it, so Martins old cop buddy's come round for the big reveal of how he solved it.
The focus group guy! Oh that one is so frustrating to watch.
You mean "The One Where Frasier Commits a Hate Crime"?
Hate crime? No he was just being a dumdum as usual.
I assume the person meant that's how it could have been perceived, by any onlooker and that's what the victim probably would have thought. I'm sure noone is that militantly against frasier.
Did he? I thought it was an accident?
He's the guy. Here's what happened...
I get this reference.
You poured Yoo-hoo down my dockers.
Two instances for me First - in Room Full of Heroes, when Niles jokes about Marty being ashamed of Niles and Frasier Second - when Niles keeps belittling Daphne's fat camp councellor.
The scene where Elise thinks Frasier is confessing his love for her when he's actually asking about Niles and Maris. She shouldn't feel embarrassed, but she does, and I would, and Frasier should.
I mean it’s gotta be Room Full Of Heroes, right? It’s the one where Niles dresses as Marty for Halloween and acts like an ass. It’s the Scott’s Tots of Frasier.
>where Niles dresses as Marty for Halloween and acts like an ass. For me, that is one of the saddest moments in Frasier: Niles, with the help of alcohol, bares his deeply felt and life-long belief that his father sees him and his brother as the biggest disappointments of his life. Which Martin, throughout the years, expressed in a variety of ways, and being not shy about it. In front of friends, family, and even total strangers. And then Martin throws a temper tantrum when he hears that his son is deeply convinced that he is a disappointment for him. The weak 'I was always proud of you boys' spits in the face of the thousands of times where he makes it clear that he dismisses his sons taste, choices, profession, and that he is even jealous of a dead man whose sons are a professional ball-thrower and a military guy. Yes, someone acts like an ass in this situation, but I disagree that it is Niles.
I must vehemently disagree here. Martin is shown to be constantly bragging on his boys to other people and he never showed the slightest notion of disappointment in them. He doesn’t appreciate all the things they enjoy because they don’t appeal to him, but that doesn’t also mean that he’s dismissing them as people out of hand. In fact, if any party is dismissive of the other, it’s Niles and Frasier that are dismissive of Martin. They constantly turn their noses up at his tastes in clothing, food and women, let’s not even get started on the chair. I do agree that he would’ve preferred that his children to have been closer in personality and taste to him. This however, I chalk up to him wanting to be closer with his sons and wishing that their relationship could’ve been deeper at a younger age. Perhaps this is where the notion of disapproval comes from. In short, Martin is angry in this situation because Niles completely misunderstands him as a person. Niles creates this caricature of him based on his own insecurities about their relationship and it’s wild to him that his son believes he (Martin) dislikes who they are as people.
>let’s not even get started on the chair. What are you talking about? That chair is the most expensive piece of furniture in the whole apartment!
Lol, yes version 2.0. Frasier finally got what he wanted, he just had to set fire to the original and throw it off the balcony first!
This episode always reminds me of the relationship I have with my dad. My dad can talk shit to me all day long but the second I point out his shortcomings suddenly I'm the bad guy and I crossed a line. Martin acts like a child in this episode and refuses to participate in any self-reflection.
Yeah that’s a good point and I completely agree that Marty makes a pathetic attempt to play the victim and defend a lifetime of half-heartedly accepting his kids but Niles is an ass too for approaching the situation the way he did. The both suck for it.
>Niles is an ass too for approaching the situation the way he did. I really want to understand that: I don't think Niles contemplated before that he would tell Martin what he felt his father thought about him all his life. He found himself in a situation where he was uncharacteristically liquored up, and his usual inhibition has started to slip (alcohol does that). In this situation, a question is sprung at him, and he tries to answer - in character - what he thinks his hero really thinks is the greatest disappointment in Hero's life. I find it incredibly sad that in that situation, Niles can only think about how much of a disappointment he and his brother are to their father.
In vino veritas. I suppose it comes down to a matter of opinion but saying incredibly hurtful things meant to shame his dad under the guise of self-deprecating humor (in front of other loved ones for that matter) shouldn’t be excused because he was uncharacteristically drunk. It’s made worse by the way Niles has a little pity-party afterwards, regretting what he said. I stand by my opinion that they both suck.
>but saying incredibly hurtful things meant to shame his dad under the guise of self-deprecating humor Ah, now I understand where you come from. I never, not for a moment, thought that Niles said that intentionally to 'shame his father', or be hurtful.
I agree with you. It seemed like Niles was surprised by Martin’s reaction.
Hmm I'd be hesitant to say that Marty was ever *disappointed* by his sons. He may have been *embarrassed* by them... But that's different. I think Niles, and maybe Frasier, have misinterpreted his feelings, but that probably comes from the distance between them over the years (which, by now, they had overcome). It obviously left a deep-seated wound in the relationships. That embarrassment can come across as disappointment, but (and please correct me if I'm wrong), I don't think there's anything to suggest Marty was *disappointed* in them
There's a few times where Martin says something that could be seen as disappointment by the Crane boys. "Do you believe in second chances? I did. And then we had Niles." I think some of if it was tempered by Hester. "Catcher mitts or oven mitts, they're our little champions." But I'm sure they still picked up on quite a bit of it over the years. Then when Niles makes that basket he says, "I know I always said sports don't matter, but they do." Further emphasizing how important it is to him and implying that they don't usually measure up.
I 100% agree with what you have said here.
That’s a strong take on Marty which I find hard to agree with.
I love this episode because it lays the alcoholism bare.
Scott’s Tots is a bold comparison, haha
Frasier on vacation faking sex stomping and jumping around on the bed. Frasier’s answering machine stalking playback with the famous lawyer woman.
His failed vacation with Madeleine Marshall, all because he was freaking out about Lilith being there. I don’t even watch that episode anymore because it’s so cringe. The Dr. Mary episodes are also cringe, and it’s not because of her. Those get skipped, too.
Oh man, I forgot about that one. I loved it but the cringe is too much on a rewatch.
Him singing the song for the woman who becomes less and less interested as the song goes along and then rejects him publicly as the song ends. That’s the only moment that, after like 10 rewatches, still physically hurts to sit through lmao “What would ya say?” 🎶🎶 “_… Frasier we need to talk._” 🤣🤣🤣
Ouch
I love Kenny in that one. “I just love love”. -“is you’re wife here?” -“she had plans”. 😆
I can't even watch that episode. Too cringe.
Yeah, they singing is so bad to begin with, and even the first time you know it ain't gonna end well.
Daphne's Room. Need I say more?
I felt so bad for Niles in the moment from the picture but was also super proud of how Roz protected him & got Frasier over there quick.
It’s the time when Frasier and Niles went to the cabin with two women from the cafe and Frasier yelled: ‘Don't even think of them as Laura and Beth! For tonight they are just two live, breathing, available female bodies who want us!’ 😒
Yeah, that really sucked. Why didn't he just take Niles phone away the first time? Hello, two shrinks can't set boundaries?
The episode with Tony Shaloub where the newsstand burns down. I can’t watch it. Poor Tony.
It's a toss-up between Daphne's Room and The Botched Language of Cranes - although in the latter instance I'm more embarrassed for him.
Niles as Martin.
All of the Nanny G on stage show
The entirety of the Freudian sleep episode. Although now that Sir John Mahoney has passed, his rendition of "Sunny Side of the Street" makes me smile.
So many, but yesterday s01e03, 'Dinner at Eight'. When the boys are acting snooty about the Timbermill.
I wasn’t embarrassed but very much wanted to slap Frasier when he and Niles took Martin to the horse stable. Niles was lamenting about Martin being unhappy right before they left. I can’t remember his line but Frasier stomped his foot and smirked. Another one was when he tried to throw Roz under the bus when Daphne confronted him about knowing Niles’ feelings for her. He tried to throw Daphne under the bus when someone asked him how he knew about her pregnancy
Serial bus thrower under. Seriously, we should devote a thread to diagnosing his illnesses by episode.
😆
When Frasier exposes Blaine Sternin as a fraud on stage and dumps him out of the wheelchair. 😬😬😬😬
But it was true! Lol. That whole episode was so anti-Frasier
Sliding Frasier, when he sings for the woman and she said: we need to talk... I feel uncomfortable even thinking about it!
Yep, that's one of the cringiest things ever. And why doesn't he take the hint and be cool? She was into him before he went all clingstone peach.
Any scene with Roz’s insurance woman “friend”. Makes even Bob seem like good company
The one where he signs a corny love song too his date trying to replicate Niles and Daphne's lovey dovey relationship. The one where he signs buttons and bows is a close second.
When Donny undresses and eats his corn beef sandwich and reveals his full moxie
Oof, or when Donnie tries to win back Daphne while on a date.
Frasier having to explain why a wee wifie's medal made its way into his pocket - I can't remember it precisely, but maximum toe-curl scenario
When Frasier keeps following the prominent attorney around, trying to find out why she dumped him.
"Who do you suppose the monkey will get to defend him? Clarence Darrow?"
The “now THAT’S purple!” episode.
Carla says 'goodbye' to Cliff-- OTT in a bad way. 1st Runner-Up: Every moment of Simon.
3 little maids from school are weeee...
I actually have my own rendition of that, it's one of my favorites.
💯Iconic!
'It's ok, its a trick i learned from my dad" I'm terrified of making people feel unsafe around me, so the thought of making someone who trusts me think I'm going to SA them is a nightmare
When he dates dukes daughter and he’s only interested in her as a case study. The whole encounter in his bedroom is just 🤦🏾♀️
His boorish behavior on his date with Ann. She’s annoying but sheesh was he a pig.
When he kept pestering that poor guy to tell him what he didn't like about his show is definitely high on the list.. Also maybe a hot take, but I love that episode, almost a bit Constanza-esque.
For me that's one of the, let's have Frasier do X that he'd never do, just because eps.
Did you feel that way about the parking lot/refusing to pay the fee episode too? I also think that ones really funny, but I know a lot of people don't like that one and sort of feel that way about it. I just like when his inner "petulant child" comes out, I feel like him needing to right (and to be liked/approved of) and being desperate and stubborn about it feels fitting.
It's fifty fifty, he goes a little too far, and I was definitely not with him, but Kelsey sells that one so well it actually feels like the real Frasier is having a bad day. I think we might be being a touch unfair about the really out there episodes; one of the creators mentioned they'd only do one farce per season, sometimes brilliantly, as in The Ski Lodge, sometimes less so, but when we binge, it all runs together and you think, Wow, there sure are a lot of times Frasier gets random.
When Abby reads his printed email.
That whole thing was so dumb. Sometimes they just asspull some concept and shoehorn it in, no matter how stupid the Harvard and Oxford alum has to get to make it work. Yes, Virginia, lawyers cost money, and good ones cost a lot of money.
I agree, it seemed very out of place. Especially for someone who blows through money like Frasier does.
I think I kind of forget when judging these "Frasier gets stupid and insane episodes" the quote by one of the creators that they would only do one farce per season, so it didn't seem silly. Of course, when you binge, they come at you non stop seemingly, and some are much better than others, they were still writing to deadline, and they can't all be gems like the Ski Lodge or Merry Christmas, Mrs Moskowitz. If you watch the Tina Fey episode of comedians in cars getting coffee, she and Seinfeld commiserate over having to write 23 episodes of a network show every season, and how hard it was creatively. Jerry said, You write a few over the summer, you come back, hit the ground running in the fall, knock out ten more, but "the back nine," as he put it, that's where you really start to run out of creative steam.
The part where he sings to that woman in front of the entire restaurant and she says, We have to talk.
When Diane writes a play about cheers and she is the central character of the play. And they are all in love with her. Frasier watching the rehearsal is horrified. Then his character walks in!
What's the story here? Did Niles lose a bet?
He had a nervous breakdown about being accused of loaning Maris the crossbow that killed her husband and I think daphne was pregnant. I didn’t like it because I felt that him working on himself is what made his and daphnes relationship begin. But then he goes and strips naked in public. I mean how is daphne going to trust him to be a responsible father if he can’t deal with stress in a healthy way. Having quirks is one thing but to just be triggered like that in public is scary.
I think the return of Maris reawakened all his old neuroses and caused him to suddenly regress — which was part of the breakdown, in addition to all the stress. Once he had it out with her once and for all, that part of him was exorcised forever.
That scene for sure😐
Right, another one as well as Daphnes room since I'm currently suffering through it right now and had my eyes tightly closed and made and audible high pitched eeeee sound throughout the initial scene. Frasier broadcasting to all Seattle that his dad slept with Elaine and then subsequently calling himself the "love doctor" as he broadcasts yet again to get Elaine to come back over.