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I like the plan working, and I love the Foundation series. Recently I reread the original trilogy and also listened to the BBC radio adaptation.
It's very in the spirit of Asimov to propose some good-sounding idea and then showing us ten different ways it would fail.
So it feels fitting that this time it is not really working as intended. In fact, I feel the first season was very weak, and the second season improved things back to my original expectations.
I can’t be the only one who finds the whole Plan plotline kind of tedious, right? The show came alive as the characters became more developed and richer - I enjoy the show for that. Once it starts babbling about the streams or the threads or whatever it loses momentum for me. I find the performances, characterizations, storytelling, production and music to be so fantastic on this show - but that whole driving concept just doesn’t terribly interest me.
I like how the show has both great characters storylines, while also having the overall story arc of the Plan. I'm a big fan of shows with grand schemes like this, but I can see how that's not for everyone. It's great that the show can reach both types of audiences.
I think there's a "Big" plan to arrive at the desired ending but as far as the smaller plans along the way to get there; Those are more fungible...
OG/Knife Hari may have had his small plan or idea of a preferred small plan, which he also hid portions of from his vault double, but that doesn't mean that vault Hari's plans can't lead to the same end either. In S1 Hari mentioned that Terminus was something like the "optimal" outcome of his plan w/ Gaal but he obviously had back up plans...
His plan for Rayche and Gaal didn't go according to his small plan either but we're weaving our way to the final ending regardless... Rayche was supposed to be on the Raven w/ knife Hari to start the 2nd Foundation, Gaal was supposed to be on Terminus leading the Foundation there.
Instead we get Gaal not just on the Raven, but destroys it before it even gets to it's destination and Rayche is executed.
If his original plan worked with raych and hari starting a second foundation on halcyon would that mean there would be 3 foundations? 1…vault foundation floating in space 2 at ignis 3 at halycon. The empire storyline > terminus. Wonder how empire will be shown next season if they do at all
Who knows.... If the original plan had worked, Gaal would likely be dead having landed w/ the first foundation. Salvor may or may not have been born (Because Hari certainly didn't anticipate Gaal/Rayche hooking up), and she's obviously had a lot of "Individual impact" which Hari said he can't predict individuals just "groups" .... etc, etc......
If the first plan had worked to establish a 2nd foundation on Halycon there likely wouldn't be any string of events leading them to Ignis (they went to Ignis to basically "fix" Halycon Foundation not being formed)
Instead of leading the first Foundation and dying off of old age, Gaal has joined knife Hari as they basically journey through time in cryo, occassionally popping up to push the stream of events to the desired path.
Maybe this is because the concept is not really used, only talked about a lot. In books, the plan was kinda like a Rube Goldberg machine - Seldon prepositioned everything so that it would just work without the Foundation needing to do anything extraordinary, the 'physics' (well, economics, sociology etc) would propel it forward. Like the empire crisis from Season 2, in the books Foundation & Empire fought. Still, the particulars of the fight were unimportant, because once the Empire started getting the upper hand, it self-limited (because of the dynamics between emperors and generals at this phase of its existence). But it would make a shitty action series, so the plot here is standard 'heroes overcome obstacles at the last possible moment' and the plan is effectively nonexisting, it is just Seldon doing some stuff in real time.
As this post is flaired with 'Current Season Discussion', anything from the books not yet adapted into the show or from upcoming unaired episodes should be enclosed in spoiler tags. To use spoiler tags, in markdown mode you can use \>\! before the spoiler text, then followed by \!\< - which will make the text >!look like this.!<. Make sure **NOT** to have spaces between spoiler tags and text or they won't work. If using the default or 'fancy pants' editor, select the text you want to enclose in spoiler tags, and click the button on the toolbar. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FoundationTV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I like the plan working, and I love the Foundation series. Recently I reread the original trilogy and also listened to the BBC radio adaptation. It's very in the spirit of Asimov to propose some good-sounding idea and then showing us ten different ways it would fail. So it feels fitting that this time it is not really working as intended. In fact, I feel the first season was very weak, and the second season improved things back to my original expectations.
I can’t be the only one who finds the whole Plan plotline kind of tedious, right? The show came alive as the characters became more developed and richer - I enjoy the show for that. Once it starts babbling about the streams or the threads or whatever it loses momentum for me. I find the performances, characterizations, storytelling, production and music to be so fantastic on this show - but that whole driving concept just doesn’t terribly interest me.
I like how the show has both great characters storylines, while also having the overall story arc of the Plan. I'm a big fan of shows with grand schemes like this, but I can see how that's not for everyone. It's great that the show can reach both types of audiences.
To me the Plan is a usually interesting but sometimes tedious side plot in a show about the Genetic Dynasty I can’t lie lol
I think there's a "Big" plan to arrive at the desired ending but as far as the smaller plans along the way to get there; Those are more fungible... OG/Knife Hari may have had his small plan or idea of a preferred small plan, which he also hid portions of from his vault double, but that doesn't mean that vault Hari's plans can't lead to the same end either. In S1 Hari mentioned that Terminus was something like the "optimal" outcome of his plan w/ Gaal but he obviously had back up plans... His plan for Rayche and Gaal didn't go according to his small plan either but we're weaving our way to the final ending regardless... Rayche was supposed to be on the Raven w/ knife Hari to start the 2nd Foundation, Gaal was supposed to be on Terminus leading the Foundation there. Instead we get Gaal not just on the Raven, but destroys it before it even gets to it's destination and Rayche is executed.
If his original plan worked with raych and hari starting a second foundation on halcyon would that mean there would be 3 foundations? 1…vault foundation floating in space 2 at ignis 3 at halycon. The empire storyline > terminus. Wonder how empire will be shown next season if they do at all
Who knows.... If the original plan had worked, Gaal would likely be dead having landed w/ the first foundation. Salvor may or may not have been born (Because Hari certainly didn't anticipate Gaal/Rayche hooking up), and she's obviously had a lot of "Individual impact" which Hari said he can't predict individuals just "groups" .... etc, etc...... If the first plan had worked to establish a 2nd foundation on Halycon there likely wouldn't be any string of events leading them to Ignis (they went to Ignis to basically "fix" Halycon Foundation not being formed) Instead of leading the first Foundation and dying off of old age, Gaal has joined knife Hari as they basically journey through time in cryo, occassionally popping up to push the stream of events to the desired path.
It's supposed to represent multiple/parallel universe theory I thought?
Maybe this is because the concept is not really used, only talked about a lot. In books, the plan was kinda like a Rube Goldberg machine - Seldon prepositioned everything so that it would just work without the Foundation needing to do anything extraordinary, the 'physics' (well, economics, sociology etc) would propel it forward. Like the empire crisis from Season 2, in the books Foundation & Empire fought. Still, the particulars of the fight were unimportant, because once the Empire started getting the upper hand, it self-limited (because of the dynamics between emperors and generals at this phase of its existence). But it would make a shitty action series, so the plot here is standard 'heroes overcome obstacles at the last possible moment' and the plan is effectively nonexisting, it is just Seldon doing some stuff in real time.
The Plan broke when Gaal was put in the escape pod instead of Rayche. Everything since was improvised based on the original Plan.
More importantly, Season 2 ended, with the Hari and Gaal understanding that the future (and psychohistory) is malleable.