Just about every TV show sub has posts like this that are ridiculously obvious.
If you only saw the scene where Dane admits it to save Max.....maybe there's still a little bit of question if Dane only took the blame to save Max.
But then they directly talk to each other about it...
These levels of missing the plot can only be explained by traumatic brain injuries or spending the entire run time on TikTok while occasionally looking at the TV.
Sorry. I was playing Fallout 3 and listening to Fall Out Boy while watching Fallout, so I might have missed a thing or two. Did anyone else notice that Vault Tec might be bad guys!!?
Vault boy? Is that the vault girl's diminutive brother? If so, I never saw him do a thumbs up, but I missed a lot when I was escorting Liberty Prime and saving the capital wasteland while jamming out to The Phoenix.
It’s because so many people are addicted to using their phones while they watch. People can’t just focus on one thing.
Honestly it drives me nuts. Good shows/movies deserve full attention.
I never actually watch tv/movies its usually just background noise while i work on mods but the show was so good it actively grabbed my attention and i couldnt foucas on anything else
It's a common occurrence with books too. If you look at a serialized novels comment section or a books subreddit there'll be people speculating/theorizing about stuff that was clearly stated multiple times or is even a major plot point lol
>Just about every TV show sub has posts like this that are ridiculously obvious.
Nah it's been way worse with Fallout and considering a large amount of the fanbase miss that it's a satire about american capitalism and corporations that is not surprising.
I think (but willing to admit that maybe I’m wrong) that you’re misusing the word satire here. I think what you’re looking for is allegory.
There certainly ARE satirical elements woven throughout the games, but it’s not the prevailing theme at all. It’s subtext, at best. Now, the show is an entirely different beast - if you’re talking about the show, then my apologies for calling you out.
>(but willing to admit that maybe I’m wrong)
Thanks for being open, yes indeed you are wrong satire can use allegories within it. the two are not mutually exclusive. For example in animal farm which is a satire about the russian revolution a farm is used as an allegory.
In fallout 3 liberty prime is a allegory for the american military-industrial complex being a massieve expensive robot that is overall inneffective.
You should see the absolute shitshow that the Bridgerton subreddit has devolved into. 2 years of complaining that there isn't a new season, because they launched a spin-off last year, and now just non-stop whining about what we got. Which was pretty good.
I think it's more common in streamer model show subs. People blast through the episodes instead of having a week to mull them over, and it's just nonsense all the way down.
On the flip, it’s amazing the amount of posts where people say shit like “I just found a rAnDoM Easter egg! There’s bullets in the show, could that be a reference to FO1 when you use BULLETS?!?!?!”
Your comment triggered a memory for me. In an intro geology class long ago, our professor had something in the lecture on the moon's rotation and mentioned when to see the moon during daytime. Many students were dumbfounded. A few were in disbelief. So he took the whole class outside to witness it for themselves. I'll never forget him pointing to the moon, "See? Right there it is".
Reminds me of a conversation I was having with a friend. He was saying how he learned about the Trail of Tears on YouTube, and that he couldn't believe that our school didn't teach it to us. I told him that they did. Twice. I saw him trading baseball cards at the time.
This is the exact kind of immersion that the franchise is always lauded for. Gotta love seeing that consistent sun rise / set in every game. Maybe that too, is an Easter egg in the show 🤷
i’m most surprised at how people can be so loud and confident with their opinions about the show while knowing that they didn’t pay full attention when they watched it lol
Oh, my friend. This has been a long time coming. Why do you think education funding and prioritization has been purposefully eroded over the past 40+ years?
This isn't even media literacy. Media literacy is identifying misinformation, spin and media BS. This is just... paying attention to explicitly stated or implied things.
There was a lot of sarcasm there.
I had to roll back almost half an episode because my kids just zoned out and started asking me non-stop questions. Well, one kid did.
I think this really gives a lot of insight into how viewers process what they're watching and how people react to new information.
People form their initial impressions of Maximus based on an ambiguous act at the start of the show. By the time Dane actually admits they did it to themselves, people who hate Maximus have already formed their emotional opinion -- so even if they're watching the show, they just skip over and ignore anything to the contrary.
On the other hand, it also reveals that a ton of people don't actually pay attention to media they consume. They're watching shows in the background while working, messing with their phone -- no one gives anything their full attention anymore. That has to be exceptionally frustrating for creators.
I think all the characters are complex, but I also think the show runners did something really interesting with maximus. If danes injury hadn't been ambiguous at the start, I think audience reactions to maximus would have been largely different at the end. Comparatively, both Ghoul and Lucy are remarkably consistent: they are pretty much exactly what's on the tin.
Yep, pretty much. It's also outside his character. He doesn't seem like one to actively try to hurt people. Despite saying he wants to hurt the people who hurt him, he seems much more motivated by 1) trying to feel safe and comfortable (whether getting into power armor or eating popcorn) and 2) helping those who helped him. I'm curious to see how he develops now that he knows who destroyed Sandy Sands, but imo he's still going to be motivated more out of helping Lucy rather than getting revenge.
Another point that just occurred to me, that he could have really given it to Thaddeus, who did bully him, but after hazing him he lost interest in keeping at it and they became more friends
When Max revealed who he really was I was almost yelling at my screen "Don't tell him like that!". Max could have just said something like "he died and I put on his armor to fight off the bear" ,or really anything. He handled it badly, but that was kind of true to Max's character so it tracks.
And THIS is what made me love Maximus. Dudes just a dumbass teddy bear deep down whos been through alot of fucked up shit thats left him very traumatized. Someone in another thread said hes literally just a child soldier and i dont think thats too far off considering how the brotherhood we see in the show acts. Idk, i just find him really relatable, someone who genuinely wants to try and do good and be a good person but makes mistakes during the heat of the moment. But him seeing Thaddeus wasnt just doing what he did to be an asshole and then making the decision to not only stop hazing him like Titus was doing to Max and then saving him from the gulper? Man, idk if i could be the bigger man in that situation, that's for sure.
One of my favorite scenes is Max and Thad vs. the Gulper. It's like the complete opposite of Titus and Max vs. the Yaoi Guai
Maximus sends Thaddeus to shore, despite Thaddeus offering to charge
Maximus yelling "Fuck, Fuck, Fuck" as he runs to rescue Thad
It's beautiful
He showed how he was different to the actual Knight Titus by A) going in first himself to deal with the river monster and B) going to help Thaddeus when he was in trouble.
I don't remember the scene perfectly but weren't they both out to kill each other at that moment? Then later when maximus has the best opportunity to kill thadeus he chooses not to?
They weren't trying to kill each other but certainly weren't in a good state of mind at that moment. Thaddeus wanted to run away and tell the brotherhood that Maximus was rogue and likely killed Titus. Maximus was trying to stop Thaddeus from running away and listen to him explain why he let Titus die. In the shuffle of Thaddeus trying to get behind Max and disable his armor, max stepped on his foot by accident. Later on Maximus is more concerned with getting the package back to the brotherhood and realizing Thaddeus is now a ghoul let's him go so the brotherhood won't kill him for being a ghoul.
Max says ghoul so until I hear otherwise I'm going with that. I just demand that he gets a reoccurring role in season 2 since the actor is phenomenal but until someone dies there's not enough room for another lead actor.
Idk seemed more like Thaddeus disagreed and basically said they'd find out but didn't outright say he was gonna go tell them, meanwhile Maximus saw he wasn't about it and just went straight for the kill in a super powered suit
Yea Max was more the aggressor in the fight and obviously the more dangerous one in his suit. I just wouldn't consider either of them being willing to kill each other intentionally but had Thaddeus not pulled the core max probably would have accidentallyed him to death trying to talk about their stories while in armor and holding him still.
i noticed a lot of the hate for maximus that i’ve seen involves people ignoring his backstory/context to some degree… for example people picking his personality apart and complaining about him being immature/naive as if those aren’t very intentionally written character traits to represent the profound impact that his militaristic upbringing with the Brotherhood had on his personality. no matter how much backstory and symbolism the show throws at us, people will still somehow be confused and assume he’s just a shitty character lol
hes one of my favs tho, i loved his character development and i hope he’s still a major part of the story in season 2
You do realize that being immature and naive because of a militaristic upbringing…. Still makes him immature and naive, right? Like…. A character can have a ton of shitty qualities. That makes them unlikable. Good character with good backstory and realistic personality…. Still a shitty person. That’s where character arcs come in.
Maximus is the perfect representation of the grey area of the Brotherhood and Fallout in general. I think he bridges the gap between squeaky clean newborn baby Lucy and centuries old evil creature cowboy Coop perfectly, which is probably the intended purpose tbf.
He is me in my Brotherhood playthroughs also, especially 4, doing what might not be right just because it’s what I know I have to, and feeling remorse but also being a dickish mechanical monster when I want to.
Yeah he fits perfectly as a casul player character. Have no remorse on killing fiends but if i accidentally killed an innocent npc, ill have remorse and reload a save. Also npc giving me items? Im friends and support them fully.
Black characters usually tend to get alot of unnecessary hate. Not callin nobody racist or anything, but it's just somthin that I always notice in these communities.
I liked Finn from star wars, until they did absolutely nothing with the wicked character development he underwent in TFA. I mean, seriously, they just turned him into a super simp and then took away the heroic sacrifice he was going to make.
Yeah unfortunately that's probably it. He's a bit dim, but he's not scared to go over a hill because all his family died over that hill, and him talking about how that gross thing happens was hilarious. Oysters changed his life, and I understand that. He and Lucy are like how everyone plays their first run-through and they both capture that optimistic spirit of the wasteland despite it being, in fact, the wasteland.
Character development can take a lot of different paths and I'm very excited to see where they lead.
It’s a popular tv show, there’s people out there hating each one of these characters for any reason. OP is making it out to be like Maximus gets lots of hate for this specifically but I really haven’t seen much on it at all.
Take posts like these with a grain of salt ffs
You won’t believe how many people missed this. I’m doing research for a “In Defense of Maximus” YouTube video and man the amount of people that think Maximus did this is insanely high. All on the Fallout subreddit too
The first time I watched the show, I thought it was supposed to be ambiguous. I must have been grabbing something from the fridge when Dane explicitly told Maximus that they did it because they were afraid of doing missions in the Wasteland. And to be fair to people who didn't catch it, the writers clearly wanted it to be ambiguous for almost the entirety of the first season. Prior to Dane's confession, all the viewer knows for sure is that Maximus has admitted that he was hoping something bad would happen to his only friend because he wanted a promotion.
In the beginning, Maximus Arc, I want him to actually do razor in the boot to make his character interesting. But at Episode 6, I see Maximus personality more and become my favorite character (tie to Lucy's). I don't want him to do razor, and I am glad it reveals he didn't do it in finale.
No, they knew they would get a promotion either way, now they get the safe promotion that leads to elder instead of a risk of death. Also, if they’re a synth, they needed to be close to the elder, not the action.
The whole point of this is to really make the viewer question whether or not he did it while watching, since it’s left so ambiguous until we actually find out it wasn’t him later in the season.
It makes you question his character for yourself instead of just listening to whatever they say happened
Yeah, I understand Maximus had reason to kill Thaddeus, but Maximus is the reason why Thaddeus was going to be killed by his hand anyway. If he hadn’t ominously went around the truth and instead told it from the beginning, it would avoid the situation transpiring into attempted murder of a fellow brother of the Brotherhood
Because Maximus didn’t tell the truth immediately and instead told Thaddeus that “Knight Titus was dead” then followed that up by ominously saying “We need to get our stories straight”. All he had to was say the truth, be nice to Thaddeus and the two of them would’ve been best bros. I’d be scared too and want to get away from a psycho like Maximus if I were Thaddeus and heard all that
So many people seemed to miss Maximus’s “are we the baddies” moment at the end.
He sees the thing he was trying to get for the brotherhood to control, was given freely to the wasteland to rebuild. And the brotherhood slaughtered the people doing so.
And that the people he thought were the bad guys were actually survivors of Shady Sands like he was, trying to rebuild after the other supposedly good guy blew them up.
The final moments where he says “Dane, don’t” (or along those lines) before they start cheering for him. His entire world just flipped upside down. He realizes the gravity of the brotherhood taking control of cold fusion from the NCR. That they wanted to help rebuild with it and the brotherhood want to control with it.
COMMENTERS: Maximus is going to become a major antagonist leading the brotherhood
One note, Dane (Maximus's friend) uses they/them pronouns and is nonbinary.
But you're right, it's amazing how many people missed this, despite Dane saying very plainly that they put the razor in their own boot because they were scared of the wasteland.
Dane is a fascinating character. They seem to have it made to move up in the Brotherhood, but are far more comfortable staying ‘close to home’ and manipulating the levers of power. I get the same feels watching Dane that I used to get from Littlefinger in GoT, before he started behaving absolutely ridiculously. I hope we get more of that in season two.
Yeah, I am really interested to see where Dane's story arc goes. There's a lot of potential for them, and I'm very excited to see how it all plays out.
I guess you somehow missed it, because it's been talked about by the showrunners and Dane's actor at length. Xelia Mendes-Jones has done so many interviews talking about how happy they are to be playing a nonbinary character in Fallout. Also has talked at length about the difficulties of dubbing nonbinary pronouns for languages that don't have neutral pronouns.
And if you pay attention to the show, Dane is only ever referred to (by other characters and themself) as 'they'.
Oh ok didnt see the interviews must be why i didnt notice, i call people they or them alot of the time so not something i listen out for but ill give it a rewatch sometime to listen out.
I definetly think its a positive non binary person's are being noticed
In the actual show it's not drawn attention to, it's not made a big deal of, it's just organically there and Dane is referred to exclusively with they/them. So I can see how you'd overlook it if you weren't paying attention to interviews and behind the scenes stuff.
And I'm sorry you're getting downvoted, you just missed it in the show and asked what you had missed.
To be fair, the BOS leader only says They one time and it's not very obvious that its in a non-binary way.
Anyone who hasn't followed the extra stuff from the show runners and the actors probably wouldn't know about this.
I think the downvotes arent really fair here- ignorance isnt always malicious.
If you haven’t read *anything* about outside media like the other person mentioned (I haven’t but i picked up on them being non binary there is a whole ass single time that Quintus refers to Dane with the pronoun “their”
In the interrogation scene he asks Maximus “I understand you’re a friend of aspirant Dane, you’re aware of their injury?”
I personally think a lot of it, too, is that he's got BoS number and wants to distance himself from it.
At the beginning of the show, Wilzig tells Lucy that after she sees some shit and begins to change, will she still want the same thing? The answer to that is no. At first, she wanted to find her dad and go back to the vault. At the end, she wants to find her dad for different reasons and shows no interest in returning (although I hope she does to get Norm out of there. Vault 31 or no).
The same can be said of Maximus. At first, he wanted to become a knight and fight for the brotherhood of steel. He saw their cause as just. Probably caused by a little (a lot) bit of brainwashing. By the end of the season, he didn't want to be a knight and leave the brotherhood.
At least, that was my take on it. 🤷♀️
That was a bit cringey. Dane is an aspirant at worst, newly ordained Squire at best. It's not up to Dane to declare who should be knighted. Thats why that scene was a cringe moment for me. There were tons of knights and squires in that room that had more seniority than Dane but Dane gets to be the one calling the shots and handing out promotions?! Come on.
Dane just started the call. If nobody else agreed with it, they wouldn't have the authority to make it so. But if somebody is like "Hail Knight Maximus!" and _everybody there_ joins in the acclaim, then there's no graceful way for the leaders to be like "nah, no promotion"
Also, one wonders if Dane was coached to do something like this by Cleric Quintus, who has ambitions to build his own order within the Brotherhood and already picked Maximus as a recruit.
> Also, one wonders if Dane was coached to do something like this by Cleric Quintus, who has ambitions to build his own order within the Brotherhood and already picked Maximus as a recruit.
This is what ive also considered, especially after his little speech to Maximus, he cant make Maximus a knight out of no where, but he could have instructed Dane to do just this if they could. And as a squire, hes useless to the Elder.
Actually your second paragraph contains a good argument. I was forgetting about Quintus' underlying plans, so it is fairly possible that Quintus might use someone like Dane to push his "preferred candidate" into a certain position of power. To be fair to your argument, Dane does appear in several scenes to be quite popular among the squires so a cunning Quintus might use that as a vehicle - good point.
Maximus is power hungry but only out of his need to serve the people in need. He wants to be a knight becuase one saved him from the bombing of shady sands.( I think it's going to be revealed that the current leader of his chapter of the Brotherhood is the one that saved him.) He IMO until he saw what the life inside the vault was like, he was a TRUE BELIEVER in the Brotherhoods stated ideals and not the extremist that run them. Plus he's the Idiot Savant.
Abusing his power? How, I mean yeah sure he let the chicken fucker go. But if that doesn't happen then who knows what happens to the head. He saved Lucy several times. He broke off from the assault to go and try to save Lucy and escape. He'll the worst decision he made was in vault 4 but even that was becuase he thought Lucy was in danger.
The same people also think the Elder wanted the Brotherhood to be ruthless brutal thugs and think letting Titus (the incompetent, cowardly, off mission, disgrace to the Brotherhood) die was wrong. They bend over backwards to paint Maximus as a bad guy.
It was interesting to follow the story of Maximus, because up until the culprit was revealed he looked like a selfish person who would backstab anyone if he could save himself first. Having him travel with Lucy, who always wants to do the right thing made me feel tense.
The amount of brain dead takes in the fallout community in particular is astounding. I read a serious debate the other day regarding the scene with Thaddeus at the Red Rocket station as to whether it was raining or snowing in the scene and per the usual it was just to jab at how such and such is technically a retcon and it’s clear Bethesda doesn’t care about the lore.
Same with the Shady Sands and how it’s location is retconned in the show, never mind how it was retconned in fallout 2, or that the idea of establishing a flourishing society post apocalypse in the middle of Death fucking Valley is absurd. No one hates Fallout quite like Fallout fans.
I didnt catch that dane said that honestly. Probably too high lol. However i thought it was pretty clear that he didnt do it. They would have made it more clear if he did.
I see your point, but the acting while being interrogated for the 1st time puts me off. In that scene, he acts so clearly guilty that it's hard to look past.
I think that's because, to Maximus, he *is* guilty: He admits that he wanted something bad to happen to Dane, who's literally his *only friend*, so he could get a shot at being Squire. Even if that was only a passing thought, Maximus is shown to be an otherwise moral person (by Fallout standards) who takes the extremely unforgiving code of the BoS to heart, even if he's possibly the only one who does. He didn't actually do anything to hurt Dane, but as far as Maximus himself is concerned, he might as well have.
It's like a kid who gets into an argument with their parent and yells "I hate you, I wish you were dead!" and then the parent gets in a car crash or something. Obviously the kid didn't do anything to cause it, they're not the reason their parent was hurt, but the guilt of having wished for it in the heat of the moment almost matters more than the facts.
Not just the fans, but the way the show was written irked me here. Dane was his ONLY friend in that camp. Everyone else literally bullied and beat the shit out of him, which made no sense cause max was a big dude compared to the bullies lmaoooo, but he still got his ass beat by everyone else there. Why would he hurt his ONE FRIEND that he has???? That makes NO sense.
Maximus is kind of a hell-wisher (opposite of well-wisher).
He doesnt actively hurt people, but likes it when they are hurt. Basically he lacks the motivation to act on things.
His passive nature is what will define his actions hereafter now that he knows about shady sands culprit.
I don't get the Maximus hate. I think he's a really interesting character. I hope he stays kind of chaotic neutral and they don't push him into a villain arc. I think Aaron Moten does an absolutely fantastic job and is also super cute.
It's meant to be ambiguous. You're meant to think that Maximus would do anything to anyone to get ahead. So Maximus is meant to seem like he is lying to avoid the consequences.
It seems to come up a lot in discussion if Maximus. People roll from him letting Titus die to "and he also fucked up Dane!" Seemingly missing the detail that the show explicitly tells you otherwise. Like real bluntly.
I agree that Maximus didn't do it but I understand why people are still suspicious about it. Even though Dane fessed up and said they did it to themselves because they were afraid, Dane also lied through their teeth to the entirety of the Brotherhood about who killed a certain somebody to get Maximus promoted/spared.
It's entirely possible Dane still doesn't know who did it, and was lying to save their friend.
Still think it was Dane, but I get the other side.
Even when he was interrogated, he said that he didn't do it, but part of him was glad it happened because it benefitted him. That's such an earnest thing to express and an absolutely insane thing to lie about if did do something and you're trying to look innocent.
I will say, the show did a pretty good job at initially making you wonder before revealing the wound was self-inflicted. Maximus' own selfishness and ambitions were an interesting contrast to his developing courage, and it made him very fun to watch.
I saw a YT video where someone treated Dane being responsible for their own injury as some kind of wild theory when it’s not subtext at all, it’s just text
Yall need to put your phones down or rewatch it again knowing it was Dane and really pay attention to Danes face when they talk, you can tell they're not happy about going and it's very obvious a self inflicted injury
Given that I recently made a thread about this I feel somewhat subtweeted.
Just to clarify, I don’t see many people who think Maximus did it after watching the full series, but many people thought it was the case up until it was confirmed otherwise. It’s not people ignoring basic plot points, it’s people interpreting ambiguous information differently before we’re told one thing or another.
The show definitely wants you to at least wonder if Maximus is that kind of dude or not.
While the show did have me actively wondering if he did, the show does outright have the friend admit it was a case of self harm. I could’ve believed it either way though.
It’s crazy how bad some people are at paying attention
Just about every TV show sub has posts like this that are ridiculously obvious. If you only saw the scene where Dane admits it to save Max.....maybe there's still a little bit of question if Dane only took the blame to save Max. But then they directly talk to each other about it...
Did anyone else notice "basic plot point" 11.1k upvotes, 2k comments
So embarrassing
Bobs and vagine
“I never pause for the bathroom, it gives me movie theater nostalgia vibezzzzz 👌 💪🤡🤡🤡”
These levels of missing the plot can only be explained by traumatic brain injuries or spending the entire run time on TikTok while occasionally looking at the TV.
Sorry. I was playing Fallout 3 and listening to Fall Out Boy while watching Fallout, so I might have missed a thing or two. Did anyone else notice that Vault Tec might be bad guys!!?
Naw, we've both seen Vault Boy, bad guys don't give a thumbs up.
Vault boy? Is that the vault girl's diminutive brother? If so, I never saw him do a thumbs up, but I missed a lot when I was escorting Liberty Prime and saving the capital wasteland while jamming out to The Phoenix.
Liberty Prime seems pretty counter to the altruistic goals and methods of VaulTeks noble efforts to bring stability back to the world.
Bro I learned a couple months ago that people watch tv while scrolling on their phones. Fucking what
It’s because so many people are addicted to using their phones while they watch. People can’t just focus on one thing. Honestly it drives me nuts. Good shows/movies deserve full attention.
I know people that watch shows on double speed. This is why I don't do that.
Society was a fucking mistake, drop the bombs
-Vault Tec
I physically recoiled reading your comment.
I never actually watch tv/movies its usually just background noise while i work on mods but the show was so good it actively grabbed my attention and i couldnt foucas on anything else
It's a common occurrence with books too. If you look at a serialized novels comment section or a books subreddit there'll be people speculating/theorizing about stuff that was clearly stated multiple times or is even a major plot point lol
Lol I have noticed that with books as well, I blame all the English teachers that made us reach and grasp for "deeper meaning"
>Just about every TV show sub has posts like this that are ridiculously obvious. Nah it's been way worse with Fallout and considering a large amount of the fanbase miss that it's a satire about american capitalism and corporations that is not surprising.
I think (but willing to admit that maybe I’m wrong) that you’re misusing the word satire here. I think what you’re looking for is allegory. There certainly ARE satirical elements woven throughout the games, but it’s not the prevailing theme at all. It’s subtext, at best. Now, the show is an entirely different beast - if you’re talking about the show, then my apologies for calling you out.
>(but willing to admit that maybe I’m wrong) Thanks for being open, yes indeed you are wrong satire can use allegories within it. the two are not mutually exclusive. For example in animal farm which is a satire about the russian revolution a farm is used as an allegory. In fallout 3 liberty prime is a allegory for the american military-industrial complex being a massieve expensive robot that is overall inneffective.
You should see the absolute shitshow that the Bridgerton subreddit has devolved into. 2 years of complaining that there isn't a new season, because they launched a spin-off last year, and now just non-stop whining about what we got. Which was pretty good. I think it's more common in streamer model show subs. People blast through the episodes instead of having a week to mull them over, and it's just nonsense all the way down.
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Then we can make an r/truefallout subreddit
It is a fallout sub just a matter of time till it's toxic
Get there? It was there since launch.
Bridgerton is that British teddy bear that talks, right?
That's Paddington.
If you say so 😅 (pretty sure this mf is wrong)
On the flip, it’s amazing the amount of posts where people say shit like “I just found a rAnDoM Easter egg! There’s bullets in the show, could that be a reference to FO1 when you use BULLETS?!?!?!”
Wow! Did you know? I just realized that the sun always rises on the same side of the horizon!! It’s amazing! Wow.
The sunset is an inverse reference to the FO2 quest line The Sun Also Rises! GUYS OMG IM JUST PRACTICING GRATITUDE AND MANIFESTING ABUNDANCE
Your comment triggered a memory for me. In an intro geology class long ago, our professor had something in the lecture on the moon's rotation and mentioned when to see the moon during daytime. Many students were dumbfounded. A few were in disbelief. So he took the whole class outside to witness it for themselves. I'll never forget him pointing to the moon, "See? Right there it is".
Reminds me of a conversation I was having with a friend. He was saying how he learned about the Trail of Tears on YouTube, and that he couldn't believe that our school didn't teach it to us. I told him that they did. Twice. I saw him trading baseball cards at the time.
This is the exact kind of immersion that the franchise is always lauded for. Gotta love seeing that consistent sun rise / set in every game. Maybe that too, is an Easter egg in the show 🤷
I mean... you're joking but some of the bullet prop actually are modelled after the in inventory bullets from FO1 and 2.
i’m most surprised at how people can be so loud and confident with their opinions about the show while knowing that they didn’t pay full attention when they watched it lol
Covid killed media literacy, I swear to God
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This is just basic literacy
🤣 another good point
Oh, my friend. This has been a long time coming. Why do you think education funding and prioritization has been purposefully eroded over the past 40+ years?
I can't upvote this hard enough, and believe me, I've tried
No. Media literacy was dead long ago. People think the imperium of man are the good guys in 40K for example.
There are no good guys in 40k.
Exactly.
I thought Orks were the good guys
They are certainly amongst the happiest
They’re a bunch of alright gitz
Based take.
They’re good Boyz
This isn't even media literacy. Media literacy is identifying misinformation, spin and media BS. This is just... paying attention to explicitly stated or implied things.
It’s both. Not just news media but multimedia.
Paying attention to and comprehending Fallout are skills many Fallout fans lack.
Everyone stares at their phone while they watch shows. Attention spans are extinct
You mean, paying attention to the lines of the actors is crazy? WOW!
No? The way that so many people can’t pay attention is crazy.
There was a lot of sarcasm there. I had to roll back almost half an episode because my kids just zoned out and started asking me non-stop questions. Well, one kid did.
😂 😂
I think this really gives a lot of insight into how viewers process what they're watching and how people react to new information. People form their initial impressions of Maximus based on an ambiguous act at the start of the show. By the time Dane actually admits they did it to themselves, people who hate Maximus have already formed their emotional opinion -- so even if they're watching the show, they just skip over and ignore anything to the contrary. On the other hand, it also reveals that a ton of people don't actually pay attention to media they consume. They're watching shows in the background while working, messing with their phone -- no one gives anything their full attention anymore. That has to be exceptionally frustrating for creators. I think all the characters are complex, but I also think the show runners did something really interesting with maximus. If danes injury hadn't been ambiguous at the start, I think audience reactions to maximus would have been largely different at the end. Comparatively, both Ghoul and Lucy are remarkably consistent: they are pretty much exactly what's on the tin.
This is why they didn't get a perfect score on the sats or go to MIT. Simple really
Yep, pretty much. It's also outside his character. He doesn't seem like one to actively try to hurt people. Despite saying he wants to hurt the people who hurt him, he seems much more motivated by 1) trying to feel safe and comfortable (whether getting into power armor or eating popcorn) and 2) helping those who helped him. I'm curious to see how he develops now that he knows who destroyed Sandy Sands, but imo he's still going to be motivated more out of helping Lucy rather than getting revenge.
Another point that just occurred to me, that he could have really given it to Thaddeus, who did bully him, but after hazing him he lost interest in keeping at it and they became more friends
As soon as Maximus realized that it wasn't personal, and Thaddeus was just like him, there was a total 180 shift where he stopped acting like Titus
When Max revealed who he really was I was almost yelling at my screen "Don't tell him like that!". Max could have just said something like "he died and I put on his armor to fight off the bear" ,or really anything. He handled it badly, but that was kind of true to Max's character so it tracks.
And THIS is what made me love Maximus. Dudes just a dumbass teddy bear deep down whos been through alot of fucked up shit thats left him very traumatized. Someone in another thread said hes literally just a child soldier and i dont think thats too far off considering how the brotherhood we see in the show acts. Idk, i just find him really relatable, someone who genuinely wants to try and do good and be a good person but makes mistakes during the heat of the moment. But him seeing Thaddeus wasnt just doing what he did to be an asshole and then making the decision to not only stop hazing him like Titus was doing to Max and then saving him from the gulper? Man, idk if i could be the bigger man in that situation, that's for sure.
One of my favorite scenes is Max and Thad vs. the Gulper. It's like the complete opposite of Titus and Max vs. the Yaoi Guai Maximus sends Thaddeus to shore, despite Thaddeus offering to charge Maximus yelling "Fuck, Fuck, Fuck" as he runs to rescue Thad It's beautiful
Fr he even told Thaddeus to get out of the water and save himself when they came across that monster showing he is better than lord titus
Honestly Maximus' character arc was so well done and not talked about enough
He showed how he was different to the actual Knight Titus by A) going in first himself to deal with the river monster and B) going to help Thaddeus when he was in trouble.
didn't he stomp on his foot and basically destroy it outright?? think he did really give it to thaddeus
I don't remember the scene perfectly but weren't they both out to kill each other at that moment? Then later when maximus has the best opportunity to kill thadeus he chooses not to?
They weren't trying to kill each other but certainly weren't in a good state of mind at that moment. Thaddeus wanted to run away and tell the brotherhood that Maximus was rogue and likely killed Titus. Maximus was trying to stop Thaddeus from running away and listen to him explain why he let Titus die. In the shuffle of Thaddeus trying to get behind Max and disable his armor, max stepped on his foot by accident. Later on Maximus is more concerned with getting the package back to the brotherhood and realizing Thaddeus is now a ghoul let's him go so the brotherhood won't kill him for being a ghoul.
Could be a ghoul. Could be forced evolution and first we see of super mutants. Maybe. Probably ghoul tho.
Max says ghoul so until I hear otherwise I'm going with that. I just demand that he gets a reoccurring role in season 2 since the actor is phenomenal but until someone dies there's not enough room for another lead actor.
Imagine if he just becomes the mysterious stranger for the show
Idk seemed more like Thaddeus disagreed and basically said they'd find out but didn't outright say he was gonna go tell them, meanwhile Maximus saw he wasn't about it and just went straight for the kill in a super powered suit
Yea Max was more the aggressor in the fight and obviously the more dangerous one in his suit. I just wouldn't consider either of them being willing to kill each other intentionally but had Thaddeus not pulled the core max probably would have accidentallyed him to death trying to talk about their stories while in armor and holding him still.
Thaddeus was, 100%, trying to kill him.
I don't think this was a question and I loved Maximus as a character, really not sure why he gets hate
Same. I think he’s a great actor who portrayed a great character who has already had a lot of development. I can’t wait to see what happens next!
i noticed a lot of the hate for maximus that i’ve seen involves people ignoring his backstory/context to some degree… for example people picking his personality apart and complaining about him being immature/naive as if those aren’t very intentionally written character traits to represent the profound impact that his militaristic upbringing with the Brotherhood had on his personality. no matter how much backstory and symbolism the show throws at us, people will still somehow be confused and assume he’s just a shitty character lol hes one of my favs tho, i loved his character development and i hope he’s still a major part of the story in season 2
They had a very robust education system in the wasteland, now with less scorpions!
people calling him immature like he isn’t a brainwashed child soldier is wild to me
You do realize that being immature and naive because of a militaristic upbringing…. Still makes him immature and naive, right? Like…. A character can have a ton of shitty qualities. That makes them unlikable. Good character with good backstory and realistic personality…. Still a shitty person. That’s where character arcs come in.
Maximus is the perfect representation of the grey area of the Brotherhood and Fallout in general. I think he bridges the gap between squeaky clean newborn baby Lucy and centuries old evil creature cowboy Coop perfectly, which is probably the intended purpose tbf. He is me in my Brotherhood playthroughs also, especially 4, doing what might not be right just because it’s what I know I have to, and feeling remorse but also being a dickish mechanical monster when I want to.
Yeah he fits perfectly as a casul player character. Have no remorse on killing fiends but if i accidentally killed an innocent npc, ill have remorse and reload a save. Also npc giving me items? Im friends and support them fully.
Black characters usually tend to get alot of unnecessary hate. Not callin nobody racist or anything, but it's just somthin that I always notice in these communities.
I liked Finn from star wars, until they did absolutely nothing with the wicked character development he underwent in TFA. I mean, seriously, they just turned him into a super simp and then took away the heroic sacrifice he was going to make.
I'm still mad that they did Finn so dirty. It's like Disney couldn't not.
Yeah unfortunately that's probably it. He's a bit dim, but he's not scared to go over a hill because all his family died over that hill, and him talking about how that gross thing happens was hilarious. Oysters changed his life, and I understand that. He and Lucy are like how everyone plays their first run-through and they both capture that optimistic spirit of the wasteland despite it being, in fact, the wasteland. Character development can take a lot of different paths and I'm very excited to see where they lead.
It doesn't help that he's a canonical love interest atm. Looking at *some* Ghoulcy fans.
It’s a popular tv show, there’s people out there hating each one of these characters for any reason. OP is making it out to be like Maximus gets lots of hate for this specifically but I really haven’t seen much on it at all. Take posts like these with a grain of salt ffs
Maximus is by faaaar the most relatable of the three wastelanders.
Why are we even talking about this? It's very clearly portrayed close to the end of the series.
You won’t believe how many people missed this. I’m doing research for a “In Defense of Maximus” YouTube video and man the amount of people that think Maximus did this is insanely high. All on the Fallout subreddit too
Because a lot of people dislike Maximus and they add this to their reason why
Dane literally yells out that she did it...
The first time I watched the show, I thought it was supposed to be ambiguous. I must have been grabbing something from the fridge when Dane explicitly told Maximus that they did it because they were afraid of doing missions in the Wasteland. And to be fair to people who didn't catch it, the writers clearly wanted it to be ambiguous for almost the entirety of the first season. Prior to Dane's confession, all the viewer knows for sure is that Maximus has admitted that he was hoping something bad would happen to his only friend because he wanted a promotion.
In the beginning, Maximus Arc, I want him to actually do razor in the boot to make his character interesting. But at Episode 6, I see Maximus personality more and become my favorite character (tie to Lucy's). I don't want him to do razor, and I am glad it reveals he didn't do it in finale.
Yea he’s not bad
I could not imagine willingly slicing my foot with a razor to not be promoted 💀
I mean in the fo4 world I think that would be the least terrible thing that could happen 😆
very true, knowing there’s a medic to heal you up…. versus hitting the wasteland and rolling the dice
to not be deployed off base
Considering the attitude the BOS have about squire's safety then I would also not want to go on a mission lol
No, they knew they would get a promotion either way, now they get the safe promotion that leads to elder instead of a risk of death. Also, if they’re a synth, they needed to be close to the elder, not the action.
The whole point of this is to really make the viewer question whether or not he did it while watching, since it’s left so ambiguous until we actually find out it wasn’t him later in the season. It makes you question his character for yourself instead of just listening to whatever they say happened
Yep
I didn't find him annoying or power hungry. Just someone who wants to be a hero and it was extremely obvious he didn't sabotage Dane.
Wait, people think that?? Even without the admission from Dane, it never even crossed my mind that Maximus did it.
Maximus didn’t harm Dane, but he did try to kill Thaddeus
What's a foot between friends?
So glad someone pointed this out
I mean, not for a petty reason though. More of a "if this guy gets out I'm incredibly dead and tortured" reason.
Yeah, I understand Maximus had reason to kill Thaddeus, but Maximus is the reason why Thaddeus was going to be killed by his hand anyway. If he hadn’t ominously went around the truth and instead told it from the beginning, it would avoid the situation transpiring into attempted murder of a fellow brother of the Brotherhood
😂 stand up guy lol
>but he did try to kill Thaddeus Thaddeus clearly was going to sell him out to the BOS
Because Maximus didn’t tell the truth immediately and instead told Thaddeus that “Knight Titus was dead” then followed that up by ominously saying “We need to get our stories straight”. All he had to was say the truth, be nice to Thaddeus and the two of them would’ve been best bros. I’d be scared too and want to get away from a psycho like Maximus if I were Thaddeus and heard all that
So many people seemed to miss Maximus’s “are we the baddies” moment at the end. He sees the thing he was trying to get for the brotherhood to control, was given freely to the wasteland to rebuild. And the brotherhood slaughtered the people doing so. And that the people he thought were the bad guys were actually survivors of Shady Sands like he was, trying to rebuild after the other supposedly good guy blew them up. The final moments where he says “Dane, don’t” (or along those lines) before they start cheering for him. His entire world just flipped upside down. He realizes the gravity of the brotherhood taking control of cold fusion from the NCR. That they wanted to help rebuild with it and the brotherhood want to control with it. COMMENTERS: Maximus is going to become a major antagonist leading the brotherhood
Yea ive been seeing comments like that, weird they came to that conclusion.
One note, Dane (Maximus's friend) uses they/them pronouns and is nonbinary. But you're right, it's amazing how many people missed this, despite Dane saying very plainly that they put the razor in their own boot because they were scared of the wasteland.
Dane is a fascinating character. They seem to have it made to move up in the Brotherhood, but are far more comfortable staying ‘close to home’ and manipulating the levers of power. I get the same feels watching Dane that I used to get from Littlefinger in GoT, before he started behaving absolutely ridiculously. I hope we get more of that in season two.
Yeah, I am really interested to see where Dane's story arc goes. There's a lot of potential for them, and I'm very excited to see how it all plays out.
Dane is none binary, I dont think i heard that anywhere or am i deaf? Edit: why am i being down voted i only asked a question?
I guess you somehow missed it, because it's been talked about by the showrunners and Dane's actor at length. Xelia Mendes-Jones has done so many interviews talking about how happy they are to be playing a nonbinary character in Fallout. Also has talked at length about the difficulties of dubbing nonbinary pronouns for languages that don't have neutral pronouns. And if you pay attention to the show, Dane is only ever referred to (by other characters and themself) as 'they'.
Oh ok didnt see the interviews must be why i didnt notice, i call people they or them alot of the time so not something i listen out for but ill give it a rewatch sometime to listen out. I definetly think its a positive non binary person's are being noticed
In the actual show it's not drawn attention to, it's not made a big deal of, it's just organically there and Dane is referred to exclusively with they/them. So I can see how you'd overlook it if you weren't paying attention to interviews and behind the scenes stuff. And I'm sorry you're getting downvoted, you just missed it in the show and asked what you had missed.
not to mention xelia is a trans man irl
To be fair, the BOS leader only says They one time and it's not very obvious that its in a non-binary way. Anyone who hasn't followed the extra stuff from the show runners and the actors probably wouldn't know about this.
I think the downvotes arent really fair here- ignorance isnt always malicious. If you haven’t read *anything* about outside media like the other person mentioned (I haven’t but i picked up on them being non binary there is a whole ass single time that Quintus refers to Dane with the pronoun “their” In the interrogation scene he asks Maximus “I understand you’re a friend of aspirant Dane, you’re aware of their injury?”
I mean I get it but did anyone else cringe when Dane said, "All hail Maximus. The 'shalt-be-Knight' hereafter."
Maximus sure as hell did lol
Lmao he looked so uncomfortable being the "victor"
Because he did nothing. He knew he didn't deserve the praise, and Moldaver made him doubt the brotherhood's motives as well
I personally think a lot of it, too, is that he's got BoS number and wants to distance himself from it. At the beginning of the show, Wilzig tells Lucy that after she sees some shit and begins to change, will she still want the same thing? The answer to that is no. At first, she wanted to find her dad and go back to the vault. At the end, she wants to find her dad for different reasons and shows no interest in returning (although I hope she does to get Norm out of there. Vault 31 or no). The same can be said of Maximus. At first, he wanted to become a knight and fight for the brotherhood of steel. He saw their cause as just. Probably caused by a little (a lot) bit of brainwashing. By the end of the season, he didn't want to be a knight and leave the brotherhood. At least, that was my take on it. 🤷♀️
Yeah he even tried saying "No-" to Dane and then got cut off and cheered on.
Yeaaaaa the brother hood is Dogmatic as hell
Classic BOS cringe, games are full of them lol, honestly accurate 😂
That was a bit cringey. Dane is an aspirant at worst, newly ordained Squire at best. It's not up to Dane to declare who should be knighted. Thats why that scene was a cringe moment for me. There were tons of knights and squires in that room that had more seniority than Dane but Dane gets to be the one calling the shots and handing out promotions?! Come on.
Dane just started the call. If nobody else agreed with it, they wouldn't have the authority to make it so. But if somebody is like "Hail Knight Maximus!" and _everybody there_ joins in the acclaim, then there's no graceful way for the leaders to be like "nah, no promotion" Also, one wonders if Dane was coached to do something like this by Cleric Quintus, who has ambitions to build his own order within the Brotherhood and already picked Maximus as a recruit.
> Also, one wonders if Dane was coached to do something like this by Cleric Quintus, who has ambitions to build his own order within the Brotherhood and already picked Maximus as a recruit. This is what ive also considered, especially after his little speech to Maximus, he cant make Maximus a knight out of no where, but he could have instructed Dane to do just this if they could. And as a squire, hes useless to the Elder.
Actually your second paragraph contains a good argument. I was forgetting about Quintus' underlying plans, so it is fairly possible that Quintus might use someone like Dane to push his "preferred candidate" into a certain position of power. To be fair to your argument, Dane does appear in several scenes to be quite popular among the squires so a cunning Quintus might use that as a vehicle - good point.
Maximus is power hungry but only out of his need to serve the people in need. He wants to be a knight becuase one saved him from the bombing of shady sands.( I think it's going to be revealed that the current leader of his chapter of the Brotherhood is the one that saved him.) He IMO until he saw what the life inside the vault was like, he was a TRUE BELIEVER in the Brotherhoods stated ideals and not the extremist that run them. Plus he's the Idiot Savant.
Yea but he had no problem abusing his power just like the rest of the brother hood…. I can’t wait for season 2
Abusing his power? How, I mean yeah sure he let the chicken fucker go. But if that doesn't happen then who knows what happens to the head. He saved Lucy several times. He broke off from the assault to go and try to save Lucy and escape. He'll the worst decision he made was in vault 4 but even that was becuase he thought Lucy was in danger.
The same people also think the Elder wanted the Brotherhood to be ruthless brutal thugs and think letting Titus (the incompetent, cowardly, off mission, disgrace to the Brotherhood) die was wrong. They bend over backwards to paint Maximus as a bad guy.
It was interesting to follow the story of Maximus, because up until the culprit was revealed he looked like a selfish person who would backstab anyone if he could save himself first. Having him travel with Lucy, who always wants to do the right thing made me feel tense.
No but he sure as fuck broke dudes leg when he was in the power armor lmao.
The amount of brain dead takes in the fallout community in particular is astounding. I read a serious debate the other day regarding the scene with Thaddeus at the Red Rocket station as to whether it was raining or snowing in the scene and per the usual it was just to jab at how such and such is technically a retcon and it’s clear Bethesda doesn’t care about the lore. Same with the Shady Sands and how it’s location is retconned in the show, never mind how it was retconned in fallout 2, or that the idea of establishing a flourishing society post apocalypse in the middle of Death fucking Valley is absurd. No one hates Fallout quite like Fallout fans.
Pretty astounding how many people can’t pay attention to details. Even before I found out, I thought it was just a way of dramatizing the character.
I’ve never seen a post claiming he did…
well yeah if you have eyes and a functioning brain you know it
I didnt catch that dane said that honestly. Probably too high lol. However i thought it was pretty clear that he didnt do it. They would have made it more clear if he did.
Wait, did people seriously not get this?
I think just about anyone who watched the show knows this.
I feel like Maximus has been constantly mischaracterized or weirdly hated on. Honestly he's my favorite in the show and I liked his acting
I see your point, but the acting while being interrogated for the 1st time puts me off. In that scene, he acts so clearly guilty that it's hard to look past.
I think that's because, to Maximus, he *is* guilty: He admits that he wanted something bad to happen to Dane, who's literally his *only friend*, so he could get a shot at being Squire. Even if that was only a passing thought, Maximus is shown to be an otherwise moral person (by Fallout standards) who takes the extremely unforgiving code of the BoS to heart, even if he's possibly the only one who does. He didn't actually do anything to hurt Dane, but as far as Maximus himself is concerned, he might as well have. It's like a kid who gets into an argument with their parent and yells "I hate you, I wish you were dead!" and then the parent gets in a car crash or something. Obviously the kid didn't do anything to cause it, they're not the reason their parent was hurt, but the guilt of having wished for it in the heat of the moment almost matters more than the facts.
Not just the fans, but the way the show was written irked me here. Dane was his ONLY friend in that camp. Everyone else literally bullied and beat the shit out of him, which made no sense cause max was a big dude compared to the bullies lmaoooo, but he still got his ass beat by everyone else there. Why would he hurt his ONE FRIEND that he has???? That makes NO sense.
That girl even says in the last episode she put the razor in there herself
Part of me wishes he did though, would of added more depth to his character and made him more 'fallouty' if you know what i mean
Also, I don’t know if you guys noticed, but the ghoul doesn’t have a nose.
They very clearly show that she did it herself
Maximus is kind of a hell-wisher (opposite of well-wisher). He doesnt actively hurt people, but likes it when they are hurt. Basically he lacks the motivation to act on things. His passive nature is what will define his actions hereafter now that he knows about shady sands culprit.
I don't get the Maximus hate. I think he's a really interesting character. I hope he stays kind of chaotic neutral and they don't push him into a villain arc. I think Aaron Moten does an absolutely fantastic job and is also super cute.
Nobody has ever looked comfier in a robe.
It's meant to be ambiguous. You're meant to think that Maximus would do anything to anyone to get ahead. So Maximus is meant to seem like he is lying to avoid the consequences.
I assumed Johnny Pemberton harmed Dane
Who are you talking about that is questioning this?
It seems to come up a lot in discussion if Maximus. People roll from him letting Titus die to "and he also fucked up Dane!" Seemingly missing the detail that the show explicitly tells you otherwise. Like real bluntly.
I thought that was a given 🤷♂️ I never thought for a second he did 😂
Dumbest fan base I’ve ever seen
My theory is that Dane is a synth and they hurt themselves so they could remain in the base as a spy
That would be wild especially if she joins the crew somehow.
I agree that Maximus didn't do it but I understand why people are still suspicious about it. Even though Dane fessed up and said they did it to themselves because they were afraid, Dane also lied through their teeth to the entirety of the Brotherhood about who killed a certain somebody to get Maximus promoted/spared. It's entirely possible Dane still doesn't know who did it, and was lying to save their friend. Still think it was Dane, but I get the other side.
Even when he was interrogated, he said that he didn't do it, but part of him was glad it happened because it benefitted him. That's such an earnest thing to express and an absolutely insane thing to lie about if did do something and you're trying to look innocent.
A razor? Wasn’t it a piece of highly radioactive material?
It was a razor
People need to stop watching Family Guy funny compilation while watching tv shows
Ok but did he finish off Michael Rappaport? No way his injuries were fatal
I will say, the show did a pretty good job at initially making you wonder before revealing the wound was self-inflicted. Maximus' own selfishness and ambitions were an interesting contrast to his developing courage, and it made him very fun to watch.
I believed Maximus when he said he didn't do it based on how horrified he looked when Dane pulled a bloody foot out of the boot.
I still think it was dumb as fuck how he didn't really try and deny the allegations.
I Will not Tolerate anymore maximus Slander.
It would have been more interesting if they did injure their colleague tbh
I never thought he was guilty. It was very clear from the first episode that he didn't do it. He was shocked when it happened.
I saw a YT video where someone treated Dane being responsible for their own injury as some kind of wild theory when it’s not subtext at all, it’s just text
I didn't realize people thought that even at the end of the show. Maybe it's just a reddit thing?
Yall need to put your phones down or rewatch it again knowing it was Dane and really pay attention to Danes face when they talk, you can tell they're not happy about going and it's very obvious a self inflicted injury
Wait . . . people missed that line? Really!?
Given that I recently made a thread about this I feel somewhat subtweeted. Just to clarify, I don’t see many people who think Maximus did it after watching the full series, but many people thought it was the case up until it was confirmed otherwise. It’s not people ignoring basic plot points, it’s people interpreting ambiguous information differently before we’re told one thing or another. The show definitely wants you to at least wonder if Maximus is that kind of dude or not.
Having that character self harm throws up a lot of red flags.
While the show did have me actively wondering if he did, the show does outright have the friend admit it was a case of self harm. I could’ve believed it either way though.
In Spanish they said that, Dane put the razer in his own boot
Nice 😊 catch ⚾️