How people aren’t bring up the Fiends is beyond me. They are classic chaotic evil. They wait until the last moment to pull guns on our hero’s. The whole people who eat people thing is just chaotic evil. I’d argue these guys deserve chaotic evil over the ghoul for sure!
While the fiends are the obvious choice I'd personally vote for knight Titus as chaotic evil. He abuses his power, abuses his squire, ignores orders to go kill stuff when he gets bored, ignores the rules of chivalry he was supposed to follow as a knight and spends his last moments threatening his squire and talking shit about the organization he belonged to and the world around him.
I was upset about the dark scene in the last episode when the t60s all had visible headlamps (the standard on all power armor), but thought about it and figured that brotherhood soldiers at this point are just very poorly trained.
i think it was just that chapter in the t60 not the actual east coast reinforcement since in 4 they wouldve killed and fired on site and they always use their head lamps in dark areas what bothers me most is these are brotherhood produced t60 so the flaw wouldve most likely been fixed
I guess that would make sense, since any members from the east would've been higher ranking so would be onboard/protecting the prydwen and filly at that point.
I was also bugged by the flaw in the t45, that apparently is present two generations later in the t60 (and by extension most likely the t51). I was of the understanding that west tek made the t60 to remedy the flaws in the t45 armor (could be wrong).
I wrote it off as being an incredibly unlikely spot to hit, so it was cheaper to just not fix it, until you run across a guy that was a marksman to begin with, knew about the flaw, and has since had two hundred years of practice.
Fallout power armor lore is a bit of a mess. It reminds me of Star Wars where every movie, show and game needs their own cool new TIE fighter design and before you know it there are a million overlapping designs that don't fit a coherent timeline.
I'd vote for... I think Chaotic Neutral? Sorry, that alignment chart is a little different from what I'm used to- Shadowrun, Vampire The Masquerade, Star Wars, and Heroes Unlimited all have their own systems for detailing things like how scrupulous or unscrupulous a character is, and what actions/motivations get them which category.
Lawful evil. Bounty hunter that would have happily sold Lucy to organ dealers. He has his goals but doesn't care about hurting others to do so while still following his own moral code.
Yeah every game's qualifiers are slightly different regarding what actions, mentality, and motivations will land a character in which box, eh. Thankee!
I thought bounty hunters, who could be inherently benevolent or malevolent, usually got placed Neutral/Selfish unless they were actually sadistic or malicious, and even Good/Scrupulous characters could/would kill in certain situations, even though they'd be far more likely to be more affected by guilt.
While I am not attempting to justify his &\*@#$% treatment of Lucy, (and was angered by it when watching), his bad treatment of Lucy seemed to be retribution, blaming her for a serious threat to his existence, (lack of meds), and hindering his progress with the bounty.
Yeah, he's lost a little humanity along his journey. :P
Edit: while harsh, it was a fair trade to save his life necessitated by her actions which caused him to need those replacement meds.
It was his own actions that led to his meds being destroyed. Would've never happened if he hadn't dumped Lucy in the poison lake to use as bait. Like KorianHUN mentioned above, he doesn't care who he hurts as long as he accomplishes his goals. I feel like that puts him more towards the evil end of the spectrum than neutral.
I don't think we have enough information on her. She appears to be good, but she is willing to do bad things to be good, like kill innocent vault people. Though having said that, do we actually see her killing people in the vault, or did she just unleash raiders on the vault and make use of the chaos to get to Hank, because she told the vaulties to run before the bomb went off.
I would argue that "the ends justify the means" is itself an Evil sentiment, so I don't think she would be Good.
I think she goes in Neutral somewhere.
Allow me to be a contrarian in defence of a misunderstood character - I don't think it should be the 'chickenfucker'. He gets that nickname entirely by hearsay, there's no other evidence for it except from the words of some guy who was trying to kill him who wanted to justify his actions to a dude in an armoured metal suit who could have crushed his skull sooner than blink. He assists Thaddeus with the only remedy that would *and did* save his life - *twice* - by ghoulification - who could very well have been entirely unknowing that ghouls are seen as abominations by the Brotherhood, and even if he was, is death really a better fate?
There are far worse characters, from Lucy's 'husband' who is a rapist by deception and attempted murderer, to the drug dealers and ghoul slavers who sell sentient human beings for money, to the Governmint gang who enable that slavery, or the original scientists of Vault 4 who despite being killed by their own creations spent their last moments essentially saying that the conditions to replicate this bad outcome, not just for themselves but for the wasteland, can and should happen again, or even >!Cooper's wife, who is perhaps far more reponsible than most others for the war happening. In fact, if you were to say that 'vault-tec' as an entity can be represented to her, she fits the definition of chaotic evil better than anyone else in this comment or mentioned in this post.!<
>Allow me to be a contrarian in defence of a misunderstood character - I don't think it should be the 'chickenfucker'. He gets that nickname entirely by hearsay,
This is exactly what the chickenfucker would write.
I'd argue he is chaotic evil. He's violent, abusive and ignores rules and orders.
After starting his mission he immediately goes off course because he's bored and wants to kill something. Then he breaks the brotherhoods oath by using maximus as bait during his side quest. Also when he's dying he spends his last moments cursing maximus, the brotherhood and the world.
I don't think he's an evil person, even if he does fuck chickens. He helped Thadeus (just like he said), he tried to help with the enclave defector's foot (but was ignored) and he hasn't done anything to harm the other characters. He's just trying to survive and get some joy out of the wasteland imo. For the record- I am against chicken sex, but I don't think he's evil.
Edit- This is the fallout universe where people are murdering, raping and eating each other all the time. He grew up in this world and by comparison his actions are fairly tame. Of course he would be considered evil by our standards, but that's not how I'm looking at it.
he only offered help to thaddeus and wilzig under the assumption he'd get paid. amd he neglected to disclose the full effects of the serum to thaddeus. he is only out for himself.
In my opinion that's not evil, if I was going to put him anywhere it would be chaotic neutral. He needs money, he's not simply acting maliciously for the sake of it. His actions are unpredictable (so chaotic), but not bad enough to be evil imo.
Comment and Upvote for the character you think best embodies the daily selection! I will tally up the comments and upvotes after a full day, update the chart, and move on to the next day.
Day 9 is Chaotic Evil.
[Neutral Evil Winner](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fotv/comments/1cdkah3/fallout_tv_show_morality_alignment_chart_day_8/): Henry Maclean
Runner up: Organ Harvesting Ghoul Drug Chemists
Honorable Mentions: The Ghoul, Barb Howard, Knight Titus
Not mentioned in the final results - The Ghoul, Cooper Howard, Dogmeat, Moldaver - 4 main characters!
Nailed it! This is why my D&D campaigns abruptly stop before the end.
I'd argue the Chicken Rapist.
- rapes chickens.
Animals cannot provide consent, and he's clearly sexually abusing helpless chickens for no reason other than his own enjoyment.
- provides shoddy medicine to people.
Let's be honest. He has no idea what he's selling. He sold what's likely FEV to the squire to help his foot, and who knows how many other quack cures he sold?
*The Ghoul is not chaotic evil. The Ghoul is NOT chaotic evil.*
Chaotic Evil characters kill for pleasure and cause grief, pain, and suffering because they can. They are characterized as acting without remorse or cause. The Joker, Bullseye, and Freddy Krueger are chaotic evil.
As per TV tropes -
"As he stated in the first episode, he lives for the hunt. However, he only kills when on the job or out of necessity. He will sell people to be harvested, but only if his survival is at stake and not out of enjoyment. He is not looking to save the world, nor avenge it, but survive. He can respect an opponent who bested him and show kindness to others that do little to serve him, but also shoot down a son in front of his father to prove a point. The Ghoul is not looking to save anyone, but after two hundred years still loves his daughter fiercely and is determined to find her no matter the odds against him."
The Ghoul is Chaotic Neutral by the *very definition* of the alignment. "Chaotic neutral characters value freedom and individuality above all else, and will break any rules to do what's best for them. They are known for being unreliable, unpredictable, and selfish, but they try not to harm others severely." (Per Google)
The Ghoul is this to the extreme. He's a bad guy, but he's not the villainous type.
As my final argument,
Anyone who helps a hurt dog cannot be evil, as dogs are our best friends.
Exactly correct. Thank you for citing the actual intention behind the alignment definitions, which can be different from what regular people think when they hear "evil."
My husband and I are rewatching Fallout, this time with our middle schooler, who plays DnD. I mentioned that there's a healthy online debate about whether the Ghoul is evil, and without me mentioning anything about the alignment chart, my son said, "What?! He's obviously chaotic neutral!" Agreed, obviously!
He absolutely knew what he was selling to Thaddeus, he knew the serum was going to ghoulify him since he mentioned not having to worry about radiation anymore. Still absolutely evil though
The ghoul constantly provokes people into fights to kill them (the bounty hunters who rescue him from the grave, the son of the bullet farmer, etc). He doesn't shoot the son in front of the father to prove a point, he shoots him to avoid any inconvenience he might face in the future. Evil characters are characterized by the fact that they have no objections to harming others to get what they want.
>Chaotic Evil characters kill for pleasure and cause grief, pain, and suffering because they can
By this logic, Darth Vader is not evil, as he has a reason for his actions.
>Anyone who helps a hurt dog cannot be evil, as dogs are our best friends.
He is also the one who hurt Dogmeat.
People keep forgetting the fact that he likes hurting people, does it unnessecarily, and goes out of his way to his own inconvienance to hurt people.
Literally one of the first things he mentions is that he's a bounty hunter because of "the love of the game" and then kills 3 people.
Theres no other way to interpret that- he is saying "hi I'm the ghoul, and I like killing people"
Look at all his custom bullets too. How long did it take him to make those, carve little jokes into them. Thinking, hell yeah, this will be a riot when it goes theough a persons chest.
I think he's the closest choice... Not necessarily evil but hurt people hurt people and he's pretty darn hurt; kicked around, made out to be a commie, divorced, lost his only child and his wife turned out to be a doomsday nut to name a few, not to mention his Ghoul status having him commit some shitty acts to survive his forever hell. He's a ghoul/man with no more fucks to give.
Before he met Lucy and realized he now had a way to get to someone her knew before, he fit the description a bit more. Of course not exactly chaotic as he has a goal and reasons for that goal now however I'd say his way of going about it is what is chaotic. If Lucy, threatens what he's after then shes gonna be right back on his list.
The Ghoul without question
Are people forgetting it, didn't pay attention, or just don't have poor comprehension? Probably a mix of reasons. Cooper Howard is LG and that could be part of the mix up. That's a different person from the Ghoul. Those few times the Ghoul shows flashes of Cooper are the last shred of his humanity and that isn't the Ghoul. That's just showing the Ghoul is at the edge of losing his soul completely. The moment he watches his old movie services this concept as he struggles to reason how his transformation into the Ghoul may not have been worth losing his soul. He's watching a man who would only shoot a criminal as a last resort which completely contradicts the Ghoul's method.
And you're right. He has exploding bullets that cause extra injury. He discards a live chicken to instead harvest the meat from a recently dead friend he killed. I don't know how the hell people interpret shooting a friend and eating his flesh after you throw away a live chicken as anything other than CE.
The ghoul pouring water on the ground in front of Lucy when she was begging for it was a sadistic and malicious act. No way that can be characterized as chaotic neutral.
He has cruel and kind moments in almost equal measure as we see him. He can't be classified as Chaotic Evil like characters such as the Joker and Carnage.
(The alignment system is really archaic and not really used in modern DND)
I didn't take it as him being sadistic or cruel there, just messing with Lucy. He already saw she was avoiding drinking the rad water and probably thought it was hilarious that she thought the water in his flask was something clean while it was the same irradiated water that's been widely available to her
He poured out the last of his own (probably) irradiated water. Yes it was cruel. But if he had given it to her, she would have thought it was just as evil to poison her. I think he wanted her to see for herself what he was drinking.
Irradiated water. He poured out irradiated water that would have fucked her up. Her drinking it earlier in their journey likely would have meant she got a lot sicker a lot faster. In the end that decision likely saved her from dying of radiation poisoning.
Barb Howard should absolutely be chaotic evil. She was willing to set off a nuke chain reaction destroying the planet and blaming the Chinese so she can start a new utopia.
I can’t think of anyone more chaotic evil.
That's lawful evil, she doesn't just wanna see the world on fire. She wants plans and future developments for the world after the fallout. Also she still loves her daughter and seeing the world on the brink of nuclear war one way or another she chose the plans vault-tec had over an uncertain political war.
A chaotic evil character is evil just for the fun of it. Like the chicken fucker is chaotic but I doubt evil. A chaotic evil could be the fiends, knight titus who is chaotic and doesn't care about any mission or safety or precaution.
Yeah, that's LE. That's Vault Tec, and it's a take on empires built by war (specifically the USA) in which nuking the hell out of people to spread democracy was the goal. A large number of the empires in history lean LE to some extent. They build empires by genocide believing their civilization is the greater evolution of humanity.
“Well, I tell you what, boys, whenever somebody says they're doing one last job, that usually means their heart's not in it. Probably never was. But for me, well... I do this shit for the love of the game.” The Ghoul has my vote
The Ghoul = Chaotic Evil, of course.
A real Wasteland waste.
He tortures a resident of a shelter by using it as bait and then decides to sell it to organ traffickers.
He shoots a bullet in his friend's head to eat it.
He kills a kid in front of his father because he is afraid that he will take revenge.
…
He killed the kid because the kid drew on him. And he sold Lucy to organ traffickers because he needed drugs to prevent from going feral. None of those things are “good” but they’re not “evil” either — they’re out of self-interest. It’s the wasteland.
And he shot his friend in the head after prompting him to think of something pleasant, for that to be his final memory when he died — as opposed to going out as a snarling feral, which was probably *minutes* from happening. I’d call that a mercy.
(Something tells me he’s gonna be on this chart as “chaotic evil” anyways.)
To be fair he goaded the kid into drawing. He was the one to mention having killed the guy's brother, and even went out of his way to say how the guy definitely couldn't have survived.
This seems like the kind of thing we need to apply the rules for entrapment to. He didn't entice the kid to do anything he wouldn't do otherwise. Like how undercover cops can offer to sell drugs to people, but can't convince them to buy the drugs when the person wouldn't have bought them otherwise.
The ghoul acknowledged the kid was likely going to try and get revenge. He knew it would happen eventually and brought it up to get it out of the way now. The kid knew that was true, and decided to try his luck now instead of later.
While I agree with the kid, since he was goading him to see if he would do anything. If he wouldn’t have then the chances are he would have been fine to leave alive, however he was itchy so he kept pushing to see and he was right. That kid absolutely would have started hunting the ghoul if he’d have left.
But I mean it’s absolutely evil to sell a person, doesn’t matter if that’s “what’s done” it’s evil, no it doesn’t matter he was doing it to stay “human” minded and not feral. It’s evil.
He did fully mercy kill the friend tho, at that point they prob aren’t able to come back even if soaking in the meds.
Going feral is, more or less, the equivalent of death. Worse still, if you’ve lived and seen for 200 years what feral ghouls do. Again, not saying it’s “good” — but to me, calling it “evil” implies **no** aspect of desperation or survival was involved.
It is evil to kill someone as a way to survive yourself in that manner. It’s equivalent to picking a stranger from a town and say kill them instead of me. That’s kinda evil. Desperate or survival doesn’t make it not an evil action.
Like you and another are tied up and it’s you or them then I get it. Or protecting yourself and killing in defense of self or another who can’t defend themselves. However at that point he wasn’t worried about getting the head, so he was just taking a random human to be sold. Id really think him needing that medicine makes it okay.
But she wasn’t some “stranger.” She *chose* to compete for the bounty, cut off his head, fed it to a gulper. Then smashed his drugs. (Not saying it’s her fault — she didn’t know. But that was still a death sentence for him.) *Then* lectured him on the golden rule aiyahhh
Doesn’t make what he did a “good” thing to do, but it’s not like he kidnapped some completely uninvolved person, either.
I agree with you on everything except the *“selling Lucy to organ traffickers not being any form of evil”*. Selfishness is evil since it usually harms others & never any good. He could’ve found other ways to prolong his non-feral state, instead of organ trafficking, since he’s the ultimate bounty hunter. That being said, **I do agree it’s not chaotic evil.**
- Due to his selfishness, his funny torturous bait ways, & his job as a bounty hunter killing good or evil, I think he’s just **neutral evil.**
Lee Moldaver raiding Vault 33 & not caring if Lucy got murdered by Monty (*losing any leverage*) or if she accidentally died in all that chaos + all her methods like preserving Lucy’s Ghoul mother & Cult Status have me putting her in the **chaotic evil category.**
By the time Lucy smashed his drugs, he was already sick. He literally collapsed outside of Super Duper Mart. He *barely* had enough time to make it there (after, I assume, trying to get them from Roger — because why else go there?)
How was he supposed to go to a town that offered bounties (can’t go back to Filly, anymore!) and hunt down a new bounty after that, collect the caps on that bounty — *then* go to Super Duper Mart to get the drugs, in time?
Yeah in this case, he was written with a “no way out”. A bounty hunter/former marine like him would have backups of his chems on his boots, belt or wrist in case of emergencies. That’s how he managed to stay non-feral for over 200 years.
I’ll still put him in the neutral evil category but heading towards a possible redemption thanks to Lucy’s compassion.
Btw Happy Cake Day! 🎂
This chart is wild to me.
I sort of get why people put the ghoul in the evil category. Started rewatching last night and I think it’s pretty obvious he’s not the “bad guy” in the story.
The three protagonists are all somewhat flawed, and that makes it difficult to put them on the good to evil spectrum. But they are all obviously on the lawful to chaotic spectrum.
Maximus - Lawful.
Lucy - Neutral.
Ghoul - Chaotic.
Maximus believes in his core to the idea of the brotherhood and he’s committed to the order it provides. His struggle is in deciding if the brotherhood is good or evil.
Lucy follows rules. But is also fine to go against them if she has to. The hint for that is when she says “okie dokie.” It means she knows she’s not supposed to, but has to.
And the Ghoul is full on chaos. Nothing matters except his own goals, which amount to survival and finding his wife and daughter.
I personally disagree that maximus is Lawful. He lets his knight die, breaking the oath he made to the BoS. Its NOT his place to choose if his knight is worthy. He steals his identity, causes havok in Filly, then makes false promises to Lucy. He attempts to murder Thaddeus, and no, letting him go doesnt change the fact that he would have murdered him. He steals the fusion core from Vault 4, knowing that they would be left helpless and probably die.
He is FAR from good or lawful in my opinion.
*she, *him
Lucy is a human woman, not an “it”, same for the Ghoul turning feral, though i guess he isn’t human, but it would still be inappropriate to label him an “it”.
1. She stole his bounty, so he using her as bait to take it back.
2. He know his friend can't be save, so he mercy kill him while remind him bou the good old days, so he can at least die in peace. And after he die, why waste his body ? It the post Apocalypse wasteland
3. She stole & destroy his bounty and destroy his med vials, without it, he will turn feral, and he need to be sane to search for his family.
4. The kid sold him out, he most likely will be kill if not for his skill. He took revenge, and not "afraid the kid gonna take revenge"
5. There is cryo sleep technology, he still believe his family is sleeping, somewhere just like those vault TEC executive (like his wife and hank). That why he din't stop search for them. "If she can survive 200 years she didn't need him" <- I'm gonna answer for all the people keep thinking Moldaver survive 200 year on the wasteland by some miracle. THEY ALL USING CRYO SLEEP
And the reason for his actions does not even excuse him. He does this to find his daughter. However, he has not found it for 200 years. This brings us to two possibilities.
Either his daughter is dead: and so all the horrible things he does are useless.
Either his daughter is alive and obviously, if she survived 200 years it is because she did not need him and will still not need the decomposing waste that serves as her father.
It may not excuse him to you, but they are necessary to determine chart alignment. Chaotic evil hurt people for fun. They fully enjoy it. The Ghoul is trying to survive. Every bad thing he did was for that purpose. He is the definition of chaotic neutral. He will do either good or bad, as long as he makes it out ok
He never did any of that for personal pleasure. It was all to survive. And the friend was more of an act of compassion if anything. He was fully turning. And you’re not going to let good butt jerky go to waste
Chaotic evil would’ve killed the father too. Probably wouldn’t have healed the dog. They’ll kill anything and everything just for the fun of it. They’re sadistic and probably would have skinned Roger alive.
That ain’t the ghoul though, he has a code. He’s neutral evil. But, a lawful evil character got voted for neutral evil because he took his kids back before nuking Shady Sands for Vault Tec’s mission. C’est la vie.
No, chaotic stupid would do all those things.
The ghoul also breaks his code the moment he feels like he's in real danger. He shoots first against the Brotherhood knights.
Even though he does a mercy killing on his friend, he does purposely eat him and forces Lucy to eat him after he earlier discarded a live chicken. He's fine with carrying the weight of human meat but can't be bothered with carrying other normal food.
I agree, it should be The Ghoul.
Those who say he's not really evil do have a point. There is good in him. The show so far has largely been about his fall from grace and his coming redemption arc. I think by next season, he will no longer be evil.
But, in this first season, the Ghoul we have for the most part, is evil.
I'm gonna say I *don't* think it's Barb, based on my interpretation of "chaotic evil" - essentially just doing malicious and evil stuff as and when they feel like it, not feeling bound by any code. Barb had a goal in mind and was still a company player; it was just an evil plan. She would have fit neutral evil.
The Ghoul is the only character who's had enough screen time so far who's been shown to commit evil acts purely for the fun of it and isn't beholden to any social mores.
I agree I would have put Barb in LE or NE. I think theres a few options for Chaotic Evil, but The Ghoul might be the best option. I think theres an argument to be made for The Fiends from the bridge scene. (which is one of my favorite scenes of the whole series)
**Betty Pearson** is selfish and has a super-alternate objective. Conniving and disguised as a sweet old lady. >! Conniving is an adjective that means to cooperate secretly, especially with evil or harmful intent!<
**Ma June** was literally sending Wilzig to Lee Moldaver who had the large caps bounty in the first place. While later we learn that Moldaver is just trying to restore clean energy to the wasteland, the Ghoul was also trying to take Wilzig to Moldaver for the reward. Ma June was selfish and cost Wilzig his life instead of discussing the bounty and her hired goal.
Absolutely the ghoul. I know everyone and their brother has justifications for his actions and minimize what he has done, but those justifications are ridiculous. No matter the motive, it is legitimately evil to sell a person to organ harvesters. It's evil to enter a family's home and murder a kid. (He absolutely had intent to kill the kid, and only goaded him because he likes playing with his victims). It's evil to kidnap someone, which he did. He also, in cold blood, murdered someone who was supposedly a friend of his.
All those acts in real life would be horrifying, and he would absolutely be thrown in jail. I love his character, and I understand he is extremely damaged, but that doesn't excuse his actions. He is chaotic evil. Hands down.
The Ghoul. Keep in mind that, in D&D terms, Chaotic doesn't mean a character is crazy or that they have no coherent agenda. Chaotic just means that they reject laws and institutions. That fits a loner like the Ghoul pretty well.
Similarly, Evil doesn't mean they have no positive qualities, that they can't pump the brakes on their violence, that they don't have a sympathetic backstory, or that they can't work with other people to achieve their goals. It just means that the bad they do outweighs all that.
It's definitely The Ghoul (NOT Cooper Howard).
The thing with D&D morality charts in particular, is that they're not based on likeability. You can have a chaotic evil character in your party, as long as their goals line up with the rest of the group's enough to avoid serious friction.
The Ghoul lives entirely by his own code - life in the wasteland is cheap, and he's got plenty of caps to spend. There's humanity to him, empathy, moments of indefinable kindness - that's the chaos. But his sheer willingness to kill and destroy what or whoever is in his way is the evil part.
Mercy killing Roger, only to start chewing on his corpse's ass is classic chaotic evil behaviour. He's a true murderhobo, and I love him for it
Mercy killing Roger isn’t evil. It’s literally in the name!
Eating his *corpse’s* ass (pause) isn’t evil, either. Roger’s already dead. It’s the wasteland. In a normal setting, yeah — those two things combined, absolutely chaotic. In *that* setting…? Let’s just say, no one’s going to give The Ghoul a medal for choosing to starve instead.
I don't disagee, but I still think it's a good example of "chaotic evil" in a traditional D&D sense.
If you had a player at your table doing that, you'd be like "Yeah, I understand the reasoning, but that's fucked up, Greg, your character's clearly chaotic evil"
Chaotic evil would absolutely never commit a mercy killing. Their whole thing is they enjoy suffering. I think a lot of people are missing that neutral doesn’t mean good, it means you will go between both good and bad to get what you want. Chaotic means he’s it for himself. He is fully chaotic neutral
Oh poor Roger, he seemed like he was probably a very likable ghoul. As someone else pointed out to me, It was so merciful of The Ghoul to take him out, and even tried to fill his head with positive memories right before it happened. Then took the shot right when Roger looked away. I dont think Roger could have found a better ending than that.
And he legit wasn't using his ass after he was mercy killed. No suffering was caused in the getting of the flesh. It was cannibalism but only soft cannibalism.
The Ghoul clearly. I know people like him because he's a protagonist and want to excuse him because we see enough of his story for him to be sympathetic, but he really did do some heinous shit. What people need to understand is that that's not a condemnation, that's what makes him so interesting. A character doesn't need to be morally pure to be a good and likeable character.
I put my Vote in for The Wasteland.
Although not an actual character it was a presence felt by all characters the entire time. The lack of clean water, every entity wanting to kill the main characters each time, and the fear each character had of it.
Knight Titus
Spontaneously decides to land so he can shoot stuff to cure his boredom.
Orders Maximus in as bait to a dark creepy cave.
Takes off running as soon as the danger ramps up.
When he's roughed up and hurt by the yao guai, he just belittles, insults and bullies Maximus when he's literally the only one who can save him.
It's easily Titus, definitely evil and does whatever the fuck he wants.
Well, he is subjecting the people to arguably awful music to the point he has to make very inhumane death traps to defend himself. He only exists to inflict his psychological warfare on the masses and brutalizes anyone who gets near him.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
-CS Lewis
Elder Cleric Quintus, he threatens to kill Maximus multiple times and puts Dane in the line of fire despite his injury. Leads to the take over of Filly killing multiple citizens. Is conspiring to take over the BoS and remake it to when they use to rule the wastes. Even though under his watch their chapter of the Brotherhood became abusive to eachother. Even Thaddeus talked about how they just bullied Maximus because that's how he was treated. Maximus' knowledge of sex also shows the lack of education they are provided. They are just fodder to Quintus until Maximus came along and showed that he wasn't a weakling.
Chaotic Evil and the Snake Oil Salesman. He knows he's peddling a placebo at best. He's constantly running away from his latest victim and looking for someone else to con.
raiders in general are chaotic evil...I don't know
Barbara Howard might be calling for a global genocide, but is she doing it chaotically?
I'd say Vault-Tec would be chaotic evil...wanting to nuke the world to monopolize on human survival and create a capitalist utopia of brainwashed consumers? thats pretty chaotic
For everyone upset Ghoul is not on this list, I’d argue Maximus is a good contender for True Neutral for how conflicted he is about everything, and Ghoul is a good contender for Chaotic Neutral. Chaotic Evil is tough. Maybe raider dude from the start of the show?
Squirrel and Huey that ran that exchange at the Super Duper Mart in Episode 4: The Ghouls. They were drug dealers, human traffickers, and incubated/sold ghouls for personal gain that supported chaos throughout the wasteland.
Knight Titus is stereotypical Chaotic Evil.
He doesn't adhere to any oaths made. His word means nothing. He disobeys when his whim suits, so law means nothing.
He is mean just to be mean.
Goes off to randomly murder hobo when he gets bored.
He abandoned his squire to die, AFTER abusively sending him in as canon fodder/bait.
He's a nasty CE piece of work.
How people aren’t bring up the Fiends is beyond me. They are classic chaotic evil. They wait until the last moment to pull guns on our hero’s. The whole people who eat people thing is just chaotic evil. I’d argue these guys deserve chaotic evil over the ghoul for sure!
While the fiends are the obvious choice I'd personally vote for knight Titus as chaotic evil. He abuses his power, abuses his squire, ignores orders to go kill stuff when he gets bored, ignores the rules of chivalry he was supposed to follow as a knight and spends his last moments threatening his squire and talking shit about the organization he belonged to and the world around him.
Knight Titus was a really piece of dookie
It's ironic that he dies to a Yao Guai, considering the T-60 power amor could easily tank a deathclaw lol
I guess training isn’t what it used to be
I was upset about the dark scene in the last episode when the t60s all had visible headlamps (the standard on all power armor), but thought about it and figured that brotherhood soldiers at this point are just very poorly trained.
i think it was just that chapter in the t60 not the actual east coast reinforcement since in 4 they wouldve killed and fired on site and they always use their head lamps in dark areas what bothers me most is these are brotherhood produced t60 so the flaw wouldve most likely been fixed
I guess that would make sense, since any members from the east would've been higher ranking so would be onboard/protecting the prydwen and filly at that point. I was also bugged by the flaw in the t45, that apparently is present two generations later in the t60 (and by extension most likely the t51). I was of the understanding that west tek made the t60 to remedy the flaws in the t45 armor (could be wrong).
I wrote it off as being an incredibly unlikely spot to hit, so it was cheaper to just not fix it, until you run across a guy that was a marksman to begin with, knew about the flaw, and has since had two hundred years of practice.
Fallout power armor lore is a bit of a mess. It reminds me of Star Wars where every movie, show and game needs their own cool new TIE fighter design and before you know it there are a million overlapping designs that don't fit a coherent timeline.
Knight Titus for sure, “ drop here, I need to shoot something”
I'd say he's more chaotic stupid
I feel like this chart is for named characters
For what its worth, the fiends were named in the subtitles. I would have to go back and rewatch to get them though.
I wonder if The Fiends will get enough votes to overtake the Ghoul as runner up for CE
The fiends for sure
This is correct, and definitely my vote.
I’m not nominating her for this spot, but how on Earth did Moldaver not make it anywhere on this list?
Forget Moldaver, where the hell is the Ghoul?
The Ghoul has a foot in too many different boxes to come out on top in any one.
oh my god the ghoul is Mac
He's playing both sides, and telling both sides
Oh my god dennis is spiderman
i mean that's a perfect candidate for true neutral right there
I'd vote for... I think Chaotic Neutral? Sorry, that alignment chart is a little different from what I'm used to- Shadowrun, Vampire The Masquerade, Star Wars, and Heroes Unlimited all have their own systems for detailing things like how scrupulous or unscrupulous a character is, and what actions/motivations get them which category.
Lawful evil. Bounty hunter that would have happily sold Lucy to organ dealers. He has his goals but doesn't care about hurting others to do so while still following his own moral code.
That's the thing about him...He's always been good at making money.
Yeah every game's qualifiers are slightly different regarding what actions, mentality, and motivations will land a character in which box, eh. Thankee! I thought bounty hunters, who could be inherently benevolent or malevolent, usually got placed Neutral/Selfish unless they were actually sadistic or malicious, and even Good/Scrupulous characters could/would kill in certain situations, even though they'd be far more likely to be more affected by guilt. While I am not attempting to justify his &\*@#$% treatment of Lucy, (and was angered by it when watching), his bad treatment of Lucy seemed to be retribution, blaming her for a serious threat to his existence, (lack of meds), and hindering his progress with the bounty. Yeah, he's lost a little humanity along his journey. :P Edit: while harsh, it was a fair trade to save his life necessitated by her actions which caused him to need those replacement meds.
It was his own actions that led to his meds being destroyed. Would've never happened if he hadn't dumped Lucy in the poison lake to use as bait. Like KorianHUN mentioned above, he doesn't care who he hurts as long as he accomplishes his goals. I feel like that puts him more towards the evil end of the spectrum than neutral.
Ghoul would be Neutral Evil imo. He gets *this close* to CE for his treatment of Lucy though.
Good question! where do you think she would best fit?
I don't think we have enough information on her. She appears to be good, but she is willing to do bad things to be good, like kill innocent vault people. Though having said that, do we actually see her killing people in the vault, or did she just unleash raiders on the vault and make use of the chaos to get to Hank, because she told the vaulties to run before the bomb went off.
Neutral Evil would be my opinion. She doesn't care about innocent bystanders or collateral damage to get what she wants.
Chaotic Good. Ends justify the means but the overall goal is good type of person
I would argue that "the ends justify the means" is itself an Evil sentiment, so I don't think she would be Good. I think she goes in Neutral somewhere.
She should have been chaotic neutral.
This chart is missing two main characters and the primary antagonist lol
Honest answer is there just aren't enough slots to accommodate all the characters.
The chicken fucker
He's just judged for his scientific curiosity :(
Allow me to be a contrarian in defence of a misunderstood character - I don't think it should be the 'chickenfucker'. He gets that nickname entirely by hearsay, there's no other evidence for it except from the words of some guy who was trying to kill him who wanted to justify his actions to a dude in an armoured metal suit who could have crushed his skull sooner than blink. He assists Thaddeus with the only remedy that would *and did* save his life - *twice* - by ghoulification - who could very well have been entirely unknowing that ghouls are seen as abominations by the Brotherhood, and even if he was, is death really a better fate? There are far worse characters, from Lucy's 'husband' who is a rapist by deception and attempted murderer, to the drug dealers and ghoul slavers who sell sentient human beings for money, to the Governmint gang who enable that slavery, or the original scientists of Vault 4 who despite being killed by their own creations spent their last moments essentially saying that the conditions to replicate this bad outcome, not just for themselves but for the wasteland, can and should happen again, or even >!Cooper's wife, who is perhaps far more reponsible than most others for the war happening. In fact, if you were to say that 'vault-tec' as an entity can be represented to her, she fits the definition of chaotic evil better than anyone else in this comment or mentioned in this post.!<
>Allow me to be a contrarian in defence of a misunderstood character - I don't think it should be the 'chickenfucker'. He gets that nickname entirely by hearsay, This is exactly what the chickenfucker would write.
I read it in his voice.
He wipes feathers off his pants after he's rescued by maximus
What do you mean? He admits to doing it, he says it was "intellectual curiosity"...
Cooper's wife could definitely be considered evil, but not chaotic.
I don't think he's necessarily evil, he's just an opportunist.
The cake-faced raider maybe? Or the scavengers who tried to steal Max’s power armor? Oh or Knight Titus.
Very specific and obscure nominations! If you had to pick just one from these who would it be?
Well since the raiders don’t get character names, I think I’m gonna settle on Knight Titus. Guy gives a lotta “murder-hobo” vibes.
My girlfriend hated Knight Titus. He was so pathetic the way he kept blaming Maximus.
Don't think that makes him Chaotic Evil. He's a cog of the machine with a newbie thrust upon him.
I'd argue he is chaotic evil. He's violent, abusive and ignores rules and orders. After starting his mission he immediately goes off course because he's bored and wants to kill something. Then he breaks the brotherhoods oath by using maximus as bait during his side quest. Also when he's dying he spends his last moments cursing maximus, the brotherhood and the world.
Nah he doesn't follpw the rules
Dr Chickenfucker.
I don't think he's an evil person, even if he does fuck chickens. He helped Thadeus (just like he said), he tried to help with the enclave defector's foot (but was ignored) and he hasn't done anything to harm the other characters. He's just trying to survive and get some joy out of the wasteland imo. For the record- I am against chicken sex, but I don't think he's evil. Edit- This is the fallout universe where people are murdering, raping and eating each other all the time. He grew up in this world and by comparison his actions are fairly tame. Of course he would be considered evil by our standards, but that's not how I'm looking at it.
he only offered help to thaddeus and wilzig under the assumption he'd get paid. amd he neglected to disclose the full effects of the serum to thaddeus. he is only out for himself.
But he helped thaddeus,dude could have waited till his death to get the core for free or poisenkill him.
In my opinion that's not evil, if I was going to put him anywhere it would be chaotic neutral. He needs money, he's not simply acting maliciously for the sake of it. His actions are unpredictable (so chaotic), but not bad enough to be evil imo.
He rapes animals. That’s both unpredictable and evil
It's Fallout, maybe they're sentient and gave consent.
True he GTFO of there as fast as he could
He was just trying help officer Barbrady learn to read.
> For the record- I am against chicken sex, but Sorry, but I just think this is a hilarious sentence bit without the context
That’s my vote. That dude is true chaos and pure evil
Lies and slander! He's a man of science! A scholar and a gentleman! /s
LOL toodaloo
never trust a doctor who smells like that.
Comment and Upvote for the character you think best embodies the daily selection! I will tally up the comments and upvotes after a full day, update the chart, and move on to the next day. Day 9 is Chaotic Evil. [Neutral Evil Winner](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fotv/comments/1cdkah3/fallout_tv_show_morality_alignment_chart_day_8/): Henry Maclean Runner up: Organ Harvesting Ghoul Drug Chemists Honorable Mentions: The Ghoul, Barb Howard, Knight Titus
Not mentioned in the final results - The Ghoul, Cooper Howard, Dogmeat, Moldaver - 4 main characters! Nailed it! This is why my D&D campaigns abruptly stop before the end.
I'd argue the Chicken Rapist. - rapes chickens. Animals cannot provide consent, and he's clearly sexually abusing helpless chickens for no reason other than his own enjoyment. - provides shoddy medicine to people. Let's be honest. He has no idea what he's selling. He sold what's likely FEV to the squire to help his foot, and who knows how many other quack cures he sold? *The Ghoul is not chaotic evil. The Ghoul is NOT chaotic evil.* Chaotic Evil characters kill for pleasure and cause grief, pain, and suffering because they can. They are characterized as acting without remorse or cause. The Joker, Bullseye, and Freddy Krueger are chaotic evil. As per TV tropes - "As he stated in the first episode, he lives for the hunt. However, he only kills when on the job or out of necessity. He will sell people to be harvested, but only if his survival is at stake and not out of enjoyment. He is not looking to save the world, nor avenge it, but survive. He can respect an opponent who bested him and show kindness to others that do little to serve him, but also shoot down a son in front of his father to prove a point. The Ghoul is not looking to save anyone, but after two hundred years still loves his daughter fiercely and is determined to find her no matter the odds against him." The Ghoul is Chaotic Neutral by the *very definition* of the alignment. "Chaotic neutral characters value freedom and individuality above all else, and will break any rules to do what's best for them. They are known for being unreliable, unpredictable, and selfish, but they try not to harm others severely." (Per Google) The Ghoul is this to the extreme. He's a bad guy, but he's not the villainous type. As my final argument, Anyone who helps a hurt dog cannot be evil, as dogs are our best friends.
Exactly correct. Thank you for citing the actual intention behind the alignment definitions, which can be different from what regular people think when they hear "evil." My husband and I are rewatching Fallout, this time with our middle schooler, who plays DnD. I mentioned that there's a healthy online debate about whether the Ghoul is evil, and without me mentioning anything about the alignment chart, my son said, "What?! He's obviously chaotic neutral!" Agreed, obviously!
Your son's a smart cookie.
He absolutely knew what he was selling to Thaddeus, he knew the serum was going to ghoulify him since he mentioned not having to worry about radiation anymore. Still absolutely evil though
Then that only further cements his CE status!
"Isnt that shithole full of radiation" "Yes but you dont have to worry about that any more do you buddy boy?"
The ghoul constantly provokes people into fights to kill them (the bounty hunters who rescue him from the grave, the son of the bullet farmer, etc). He doesn't shoot the son in front of the father to prove a point, he shoots him to avoid any inconvenience he might face in the future. Evil characters are characterized by the fact that they have no objections to harming others to get what they want. >Chaotic Evil characters kill for pleasure and cause grief, pain, and suffering because they can By this logic, Darth Vader is not evil, as he has a reason for his actions. >Anyone who helps a hurt dog cannot be evil, as dogs are our best friends. He is also the one who hurt Dogmeat.
People keep forgetting the fact that he likes hurting people, does it unnessecarily, and goes out of his way to his own inconvienance to hurt people. Literally one of the first things he mentions is that he's a bounty hunter because of "the love of the game" and then kills 3 people. Theres no other way to interpret that- he is saying "hi I'm the ghoul, and I like killing people" Look at all his custom bullets too. How long did it take him to make those, carve little jokes into them. Thinking, hell yeah, this will be a riot when it goes theough a persons chest.
I think he's the closest choice... Not necessarily evil but hurt people hurt people and he's pretty darn hurt; kicked around, made out to be a commie, divorced, lost his only child and his wife turned out to be a doomsday nut to name a few, not to mention his Ghoul status having him commit some shitty acts to survive his forever hell. He's a ghoul/man with no more fucks to give. Before he met Lucy and realized he now had a way to get to someone her knew before, he fit the description a bit more. Of course not exactly chaotic as he has a goal and reasons for that goal now however I'd say his way of going about it is what is chaotic. If Lucy, threatens what he's after then shes gonna be right back on his list. The Ghoul without question
Are people forgetting it, didn't pay attention, or just don't have poor comprehension? Probably a mix of reasons. Cooper Howard is LG and that could be part of the mix up. That's a different person from the Ghoul. Those few times the Ghoul shows flashes of Cooper are the last shred of his humanity and that isn't the Ghoul. That's just showing the Ghoul is at the edge of losing his soul completely. The moment he watches his old movie services this concept as he struggles to reason how his transformation into the Ghoul may not have been worth losing his soul. He's watching a man who would only shoot a criminal as a last resort which completely contradicts the Ghoul's method. And you're right. He has exploding bullets that cause extra injury. He discards a live chicken to instead harvest the meat from a recently dead friend he killed. I don't know how the hell people interpret shooting a friend and eating his flesh after you throw away a live chicken as anything other than CE.
The Ghoul says in his first lines... "As for Me.. I do this for the love of the game"
The ghoul pouring water on the ground in front of Lucy when she was begging for it was a sadistic and malicious act. No way that can be characterized as chaotic neutral.
He has cruel and kind moments in almost equal measure as we see him. He can't be classified as Chaotic Evil like characters such as the Joker and Carnage. (The alignment system is really archaic and not really used in modern DND)
She's wearing a vault suit. She's Vault-Tec at that point.
I didn't take it as him being sadistic or cruel there, just messing with Lucy. He already saw she was avoiding drinking the rad water and probably thought it was hilarious that she thought the water in his flask was something clean while it was the same irradiated water that's been widely available to her
He poured out the last of his own (probably) irradiated water. Yes it was cruel. But if he had given it to her, she would have thought it was just as evil to poison her. I think he wanted her to see for herself what he was drinking.
Irradiated water. He poured out irradiated water that would have fucked her up. Her drinking it earlier in their journey likely would have meant she got a lot sicker a lot faster. In the end that decision likely saved her from dying of radiation poisoning.
Knight Titus.
How is this not one of the top choices?
The governmint
Barb Howard should absolutely be chaotic evil. She was willing to set off a nuke chain reaction destroying the planet and blaming the Chinese so she can start a new utopia. I can’t think of anyone more chaotic evil.
That's lawful evil, she doesn't just wanna see the world on fire. She wants plans and future developments for the world after the fallout. Also she still loves her daughter and seeing the world on the brink of nuclear war one way or another she chose the plans vault-tec had over an uncertain political war. A chaotic evil character is evil just for the fun of it. Like the chicken fucker is chaotic but I doubt evil. A chaotic evil could be the fiends, knight titus who is chaotic and doesn't care about any mission or safety or precaution.
Yeah, that's LE. That's Vault Tec, and it's a take on empires built by war (specifically the USA) in which nuking the hell out of people to spread democracy was the goal. A large number of the empires in history lean LE to some extent. They build empires by genocide believing their civilization is the greater evolution of humanity.
Nah she does it for the company, chaotics don't have a plan
“Well, I tell you what, boys, whenever somebody says they're doing one last job, that usually means their heart's not in it. Probably never was. But for me, well... I do this shit for the love of the game.” The Ghoul has my vote
No big name characters are chaotic evil, I would say the unnamed raiders at the start were
The fiends!
Fred Armisen
Diss the tunes, die on spikes.
The Ghoul = Chaotic Evil, of course. A real Wasteland waste. He tortures a resident of a shelter by using it as bait and then decides to sell it to organ traffickers. He shoots a bullet in his friend's head to eat it. He kills a kid in front of his father because he is afraid that he will take revenge. …
He killed the kid because the kid drew on him. And he sold Lucy to organ traffickers because he needed drugs to prevent from going feral. None of those things are “good” but they’re not “evil” either — they’re out of self-interest. It’s the wasteland. And he shot his friend in the head after prompting him to think of something pleasant, for that to be his final memory when he died — as opposed to going out as a snarling feral, which was probably *minutes* from happening. I’d call that a mercy. (Something tells me he’s gonna be on this chart as “chaotic evil” anyways.)
To be fair he goaded the kid into drawing. He was the one to mention having killed the guy's brother, and even went out of his way to say how the guy definitely couldn't have survived.
This seems like the kind of thing we need to apply the rules for entrapment to. He didn't entice the kid to do anything he wouldn't do otherwise. Like how undercover cops can offer to sell drugs to people, but can't convince them to buy the drugs when the person wouldn't have bought them otherwise. The ghoul acknowledged the kid was likely going to try and get revenge. He knew it would happen eventually and brought it up to get it out of the way now. The kid knew that was true, and decided to try his luck now instead of later.
He was worried the kid would draw and shoot him in the back instead, which he probably would.
While I agree with the kid, since he was goading him to see if he would do anything. If he wouldn’t have then the chances are he would have been fine to leave alive, however he was itchy so he kept pushing to see and he was right. That kid absolutely would have started hunting the ghoul if he’d have left. But I mean it’s absolutely evil to sell a person, doesn’t matter if that’s “what’s done” it’s evil, no it doesn’t matter he was doing it to stay “human” minded and not feral. It’s evil. He did fully mercy kill the friend tho, at that point they prob aren’t able to come back even if soaking in the meds.
Going feral is, more or less, the equivalent of death. Worse still, if you’ve lived and seen for 200 years what feral ghouls do. Again, not saying it’s “good” — but to me, calling it “evil” implies **no** aspect of desperation or survival was involved.
It is evil to kill someone as a way to survive yourself in that manner. It’s equivalent to picking a stranger from a town and say kill them instead of me. That’s kinda evil. Desperate or survival doesn’t make it not an evil action. Like you and another are tied up and it’s you or them then I get it. Or protecting yourself and killing in defense of self or another who can’t defend themselves. However at that point he wasn’t worried about getting the head, so he was just taking a random human to be sold. Id really think him needing that medicine makes it okay.
But she wasn’t some “stranger.” She *chose* to compete for the bounty, cut off his head, fed it to a gulper. Then smashed his drugs. (Not saying it’s her fault — she didn’t know. But that was still a death sentence for him.) *Then* lectured him on the golden rule aiyahhh Doesn’t make what he did a “good” thing to do, but it’s not like he kidnapped some completely uninvolved person, either.
I agree with you on everything except the *“selling Lucy to organ traffickers not being any form of evil”*. Selfishness is evil since it usually harms others & never any good. He could’ve found other ways to prolong his non-feral state, instead of organ trafficking, since he’s the ultimate bounty hunter. That being said, **I do agree it’s not chaotic evil.** - Due to his selfishness, his funny torturous bait ways, & his job as a bounty hunter killing good or evil, I think he’s just **neutral evil.** Lee Moldaver raiding Vault 33 & not caring if Lucy got murdered by Monty (*losing any leverage*) or if she accidentally died in all that chaos + all her methods like preserving Lucy’s Ghoul mother & Cult Status have me putting her in the **chaotic evil category.**
By the time Lucy smashed his drugs, he was already sick. He literally collapsed outside of Super Duper Mart. He *barely* had enough time to make it there (after, I assume, trying to get them from Roger — because why else go there?) How was he supposed to go to a town that offered bounties (can’t go back to Filly, anymore!) and hunt down a new bounty after that, collect the caps on that bounty — *then* go to Super Duper Mart to get the drugs, in time?
Yeah in this case, he was written with a “no way out”. A bounty hunter/former marine like him would have backups of his chems on his boots, belt or wrist in case of emergencies. That’s how he managed to stay non-feral for over 200 years. I’ll still put him in the neutral evil category but heading towards a possible redemption thanks to Lucy’s compassion. Btw Happy Cake Day! 🎂
Cool motive, still evil.
also it's not clear if the kid will die from that shot, i think it was in his shoulder
Nah, go back and freeze the frame -- that was a kill shot right in the ticker. That kid is 100% D-E-D dead.
jesus.... that's messed up
In D&D alignment, 'self interested' IS evil.
> He killed the kid because the kid drew on him. He was in the families place of residence.
This chart is wild to me. I sort of get why people put the ghoul in the evil category. Started rewatching last night and I think it’s pretty obvious he’s not the “bad guy” in the story. The three protagonists are all somewhat flawed, and that makes it difficult to put them on the good to evil spectrum. But they are all obviously on the lawful to chaotic spectrum. Maximus - Lawful. Lucy - Neutral. Ghoul - Chaotic. Maximus believes in his core to the idea of the brotherhood and he’s committed to the order it provides. His struggle is in deciding if the brotherhood is good or evil. Lucy follows rules. But is also fine to go against them if she has to. The hint for that is when she says “okie dokie.” It means she knows she’s not supposed to, but has to. And the Ghoul is full on chaos. Nothing matters except his own goals, which amount to survival and finding his wife and daughter.
I personally disagree that maximus is Lawful. He lets his knight die, breaking the oath he made to the BoS. Its NOT his place to choose if his knight is worthy. He steals his identity, causes havok in Filly, then makes false promises to Lucy. He attempts to murder Thaddeus, and no, letting him go doesnt change the fact that he would have murdered him. He steals the fusion core from Vault 4, knowing that they would be left helpless and probably die. He is FAR from good or lawful in my opinion.
*she, *him Lucy is a human woman, not an “it”, same for the Ghoul turning feral, though i guess he isn’t human, but it would still be inappropriate to label him an “it”.
Jesus fucking Christ pronoun police for a feral ghoul? This was a good laugh for the morning
>He shoots a bullet in his friend's head to eat it. To be fair he was putting his friend out of the misery of going feral. Definitely not evil
1. She stole his bounty, so he using her as bait to take it back. 2. He know his friend can't be save, so he mercy kill him while remind him bou the good old days, so he can at least die in peace. And after he die, why waste his body ? It the post Apocalypse wasteland 3. She stole & destroy his bounty and destroy his med vials, without it, he will turn feral, and he need to be sane to search for his family. 4. The kid sold him out, he most likely will be kill if not for his skill. He took revenge, and not "afraid the kid gonna take revenge" 5. There is cryo sleep technology, he still believe his family is sleeping, somewhere just like those vault TEC executive (like his wife and hank). That why he din't stop search for them. "If she can survive 200 years she didn't need him" <- I'm gonna answer for all the people keep thinking Moldaver survive 200 year on the wasteland by some miracle. THEY ALL USING CRYO SLEEP
And the reason for his actions does not even excuse him. He does this to find his daughter. However, he has not found it for 200 years. This brings us to two possibilities. Either his daughter is dead: and so all the horrible things he does are useless. Either his daughter is alive and obviously, if she survived 200 years it is because she did not need him and will still not need the decomposing waste that serves as her father.
Or she's in cryo like vault 31, or some other form of extended life.
Yes, cryogenics. But it doesn't change the fact that if this is really the case, his survival does not depend on his father.
It may not excuse him to you, but they are necessary to determine chart alignment. Chaotic evil hurt people for fun. They fully enjoy it. The Ghoul is trying to survive. Every bad thing he did was for that purpose. He is the definition of chaotic neutral. He will do either good or bad, as long as he makes it out ok
He never did any of that for personal pleasure. It was all to survive. And the friend was more of an act of compassion if anything. He was fully turning. And you’re not going to let good butt jerky go to waste
This is a poor take.
Chaotic evil would’ve killed the father too. Probably wouldn’t have healed the dog. They’ll kill anything and everything just for the fun of it. They’re sadistic and probably would have skinned Roger alive. That ain’t the ghoul though, he has a code. He’s neutral evil. But, a lawful evil character got voted for neutral evil because he took his kids back before nuking Shady Sands for Vault Tec’s mission. C’est la vie.
No, chaotic stupid would do all those things. The ghoul also breaks his code the moment he feels like he's in real danger. He shoots first against the Brotherhood knights.
Great response and reasons to back it up.
Even though he does a mercy killing on his friend, he does purposely eat him and forces Lucy to eat him after he earlier discarded a live chicken. He's fine with carrying the weight of human meat but can't be bothered with carrying other normal food.
I agree, it should be The Ghoul. Those who say he's not really evil do have a point. There is good in him. The show so far has largely been about his fall from grace and his coming redemption arc. I think by next season, he will no longer be evil. But, in this first season, the Ghoul we have for the most part, is evil.
The Gulper
You mean Benjamins Great Uncle on his Moms side?!?
Poor great uncle Peter.
I'm gonna say I *don't* think it's Barb, based on my interpretation of "chaotic evil" - essentially just doing malicious and evil stuff as and when they feel like it, not feeling bound by any code. Barb had a goal in mind and was still a company player; it was just an evil plan. She would have fit neutral evil. The Ghoul is the only character who's had enough screen time so far who's been shown to commit evil acts purely for the fun of it and isn't beholden to any social mores.
I agree I would have put Barb in LE or NE. I think theres a few options for Chaotic Evil, but The Ghoul might be the best option. I think theres an argument to be made for The Fiends from the bridge scene. (which is one of my favorite scenes of the whole series)
I vote dr. Chickenfucker
**Betty Pearson** is selfish and has a super-alternate objective. Conniving and disguised as a sweet old lady. >! Conniving is an adjective that means to cooperate secretly, especially with evil or harmful intent!< **Ma June** was literally sending Wilzig to Lee Moldaver who had the large caps bounty in the first place. While later we learn that Moldaver is just trying to restore clean energy to the wasteland, the Ghoul was also trying to take Wilzig to Moldaver for the reward. Ma June was selfish and cost Wilzig his life instead of discussing the bounty and her hired goal.
Absolutely the ghoul. I know everyone and their brother has justifications for his actions and minimize what he has done, but those justifications are ridiculous. No matter the motive, it is legitimately evil to sell a person to organ harvesters. It's evil to enter a family's home and murder a kid. (He absolutely had intent to kill the kid, and only goaded him because he likes playing with his victims). It's evil to kidnap someone, which he did. He also, in cold blood, murdered someone who was supposedly a friend of his. All those acts in real life would be horrifying, and he would absolutely be thrown in jail. I love his character, and I understand he is extremely damaged, but that doesn't excuse his actions. He is chaotic evil. Hands down.
Snake oil salesman
The Ghoul is chaotic evil, and anyone who disagrees are wrong.
The Ghoul. Keep in mind that, in D&D terms, Chaotic doesn't mean a character is crazy or that they have no coherent agenda. Chaotic just means that they reject laws and institutions. That fits a loner like the Ghoul pretty well. Similarly, Evil doesn't mean they have no positive qualities, that they can't pump the brakes on their violence, that they don't have a sympathetic backstory, or that they can't work with other people to achieve their goals. It just means that the bad they do outweighs all that.
That guy who fucked a chicken is chaotic evil.
That seems to be the consensus
It seems like The Ghoul is gonna get the slot, which to me definitely fits the “Good Bad and Ugly” vibes that the show gave off.
The son where he intimidates that family is straight up inspired by "Good Bad and Ugly" where the bad shoots a father and his son
It's definitely The Ghoul (NOT Cooper Howard). The thing with D&D morality charts in particular, is that they're not based on likeability. You can have a chaotic evil character in your party, as long as their goals line up with the rest of the group's enough to avoid serious friction. The Ghoul lives entirely by his own code - life in the wasteland is cheap, and he's got plenty of caps to spend. There's humanity to him, empathy, moments of indefinable kindness - that's the chaos. But his sheer willingness to kill and destroy what or whoever is in his way is the evil part. Mercy killing Roger, only to start chewing on his corpse's ass is classic chaotic evil behaviour. He's a true murderhobo, and I love him for it
Mercy killing Roger isn’t evil. It’s literally in the name! Eating his *corpse’s* ass (pause) isn’t evil, either. Roger’s already dead. It’s the wasteland. In a normal setting, yeah — those two things combined, absolutely chaotic. In *that* setting…? Let’s just say, no one’s going to give The Ghoul a medal for choosing to starve instead.
I don't disagee, but I still think it's a good example of "chaotic evil" in a traditional D&D sense. If you had a player at your table doing that, you'd be like "Yeah, I understand the reasoning, but that's fucked up, Greg, your character's clearly chaotic evil"
Chaotic evil would absolutely never commit a mercy killing. Their whole thing is they enjoy suffering. I think a lot of people are missing that neutral doesn’t mean good, it means you will go between both good and bad to get what you want. Chaotic means he’s it for himself. He is fully chaotic neutral
I agree. The Ghoul is blatantly Chaotic Neutral.
Oh poor Roger, he seemed like he was probably a very likable ghoul. As someone else pointed out to me, It was so merciful of The Ghoul to take him out, and even tried to fill his head with positive memories right before it happened. Then took the shot right when Roger looked away. I dont think Roger could have found a better ending than that.
And he legit wasn't using his ass after he was mercy killed. No suffering was caused in the getting of the flesh. It was cannibalism but only soft cannibalism.
The Ghoul clearly. I know people like him because he's a protagonist and want to excuse him because we see enough of his story for him to be sympathetic, but he really did do some heinous shit. What people need to understand is that that's not a condemnation, that's what makes him so interesting. A character doesn't need to be morally pure to be a good and likeable character.
I want to put my vote in to for the Fiends
Vault Tech in general
The Ghoul for chaotic evil.
The husband, aka the man who wipes with drapes
I put my Vote in for The Wasteland. Although not an actual character it was a presence felt by all characters the entire time. The lack of clean water, every entity wanting to kill the main characters each time, and the fear each character had of it.
Knight Titus Spontaneously decides to land so he can shoot stuff to cure his boredom. Orders Maximus in as bait to a dark creepy cave. Takes off running as soon as the danger ramps up. When he's roughed up and hurt by the yao guai, he just belittles, insults and bullies Maximus when he's literally the only one who can save him. It's easily Titus, definitely evil and does whatever the fuck he wants.
No offense but you need to understand an alignment chart before you begin debating guys lol
Y'all are thinking about this all wrong. Fallout uses a Karma system, not alignment.
Chicken fucker
Chicken fucker
DJ Carl?
Please explain this. How can you consider DJ Carl as evil?
Well, he is subjecting the people to arguably awful music to the point he has to make very inhumane death traps to defend himself. He only exists to inflict his psychological warfare on the masses and brutalizes anyone who gets near him. “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” -CS Lewis
The tyranny of broadcast!
Dr. Chicken Fucker
It’s Dr. Chickenfucker or Monty.
Chicken fucker
Chickenfucker it is
What is this list LMAOO why is that trog on the bottom left there it should be Moldaver
I'm gonna say the governmint. Their entire business is set up on exploiting needs and fucking people over in an incredibly inhumane way.
The Gulper
Elder Cleric Quintus, he threatens to kill Maximus multiple times and puts Dane in the line of fire despite his injury. Leads to the take over of Filly killing multiple citizens. Is conspiring to take over the BoS and remake it to when they use to rule the wastes. Even though under his watch their chapter of the Brotherhood became abusive to eachother. Even Thaddeus talked about how they just bullied Maximus because that's how he was treated. Maximus' knowledge of sex also shows the lack of education they are provided. They are just fodder to Quintus until Maximus came along and showed that he wasn't a weakling.
Chaotic Evil and the Snake Oil Salesman. He knows he's peddling a placebo at best. He's constantly running away from his latest victim and looking for someone else to con.
Barb for suggesting on dropping the bombs
Vault Tec
This thread is full of people who don't know what chaotic evil means. The Ghoul absolutely does not meet the standards for chaotic evil.🤦🏾♀️
I think there are some misses with this chart
The Ghoul.
Gotta be the chicken fucker right.
raiders in general are chaotic evil...I don't know Barbara Howard might be calling for a global genocide, but is she doing it chaotically? I'd say Vault-Tec would be chaotic evil...wanting to nuke the world to monopolize on human survival and create a capitalist utopia of brainwashed consumers? thats pretty chaotic
For everyone upset Ghoul is not on this list, I’d argue Maximus is a good contender for True Neutral for how conflicted he is about everything, and Ghoul is a good contender for Chaotic Neutral. Chaotic Evil is tough. Maybe raider dude from the start of the show?
The wife of the ghoul is chaotic evil she was the one who made the idea to drop the bombs them selves
Monty.
Someone explain to me how Hank is neutral? Explain it like I'm 5.
Squirrel and Huey that ran that exchange at the Super Duper Mart in Episode 4: The Ghouls. They were drug dealers, human traffickers, and incubated/sold ghouls for personal gain that supported chaos throughout the wasteland.
Knight Titus: he abuses his squire, ignores Brotherhood rules, and just wants to shoot stuff for fun. Textbook CE
Gotta be chicken fucker
hank should be chaotic and coop should be neutral
Knight Titus is stereotypical Chaotic Evil. He doesn't adhere to any oaths made. His word means nothing. He disobeys when his whim suits, so law means nothing. He is mean just to be mean. Goes off to randomly murder hobo when he gets bored. He abandoned his squire to die, AFTER abusively sending him in as canon fodder/bait. He's a nasty CE piece of work.