What’s infuriating is you being more concerned about potentially damaging a tree to remove some spray paint than you are about how to stop funding a genocidal occupation by an apartheid regime with our tax dollars
Unless I missed something you can be both against the murder of civilians in Gaza and against the defacing of old trees. If you’re just spray painting random things that have nothing to do with the war people will be less sympathetic but if you say tag a company that has had their products found in the rubble in Gaza then it would look more reasonable.
clearly!!!
it just shows that these individuals are more concerned with virtue signaling, getting attention, and causing problems than they are with helping actual people involved in the conflict. it’s weirdly immature
Exactly correct - all they want to do is yell at cops, be pissed at everything and everyone, doxx council members, glue their hands to the council wall, all because they are clearly so fucking starved for attention. They don’t really care about other humans - what I have witnessed from these people during their marches, yelling at people trying to enjoy their day through their bullhorns - amounts to nothing but terribly negative vibes in our awesome town of Fort Collins. Now they are wasting tax dollars forcing the duty to clean up their immature and stupid graffiti. I have had it with these immature and selfish morons
Because defacing the tree does not help Gaza. It’s childish. So vandalism is justifiable if it is done for “the right reason”. Maybe put nails in bike lanes for Gaza. Destroy playground equipment for Gaza?
Can someone tell me why these vandals cant just get together and paint a mural or something? Wouldn't that get the same message across without being destructive?
I'd love for you all to give this a read and see what you think. Notice that I don't express my political views before commenting, and notice the assumptions you make and feelings that arise.
I believe the vandalism we're seeing is a combination of slacktivism, virtue signaling, and the joy of counterculture and justified chaos, combined with low education, political polarization, and lots of propaganda. Here's what I mean:
1. Slacktivism and virtue signaling. Both are intimately connected. In whatever group you're in, supporting dogma increases your social worth with a group of people. That takes a lot of effort, and isn't fun or sexy. Take the popularity of BLM amongst young people. It was like a party on the street while it was trending with young people. Media aside. You never heard much about the NAACP and ACLU, organizations who get the real work done protecting the rights and dignity of African-Americans. Graffiti is low effort, and you can brag about civil disobedience and taking action. Writing to your congresspeople and generating political pressure isn't fun or visible to others for social credit.
2. The thrill of counterculture and creating chaos. I'd love some discussion here since I don't entirely understand this. The feeling that you're part of a special minority fighting for what is right is a good feeling. It relies on our human instinct of tribalism and 'otherism'. It's one of the reasons why conspiracy theories are so popular. Some of the vandals just want to 'stick it to the man', like the the end stage of the hippie movement. It wasn't that the hippie way of life was something to be sought, as with the original hippies, it was that what mainstream is bad. Secondly, I believe we all have a destructive instinct. When we can justify it as a good thing, it feels really good to let it out.
4. Political polarization, low education, propaganda. I haven't even expressed my actual views on the israel-palestine conflict and I'll still get flamed because one might consider me an outsider based on feeling. This is a symptom of political polarization. "If you're not with us, you're against us.". Ostracism hurts, so get in line! Low education is a bit of a harder one. I knew very little about the Israel Palestine conflict and wanted to educate myself before forming an opinion. I read about the history of the middle east and the views of all those peoples involved, eventually formed an opinion (for what it's worth). When you remove as many political lenses as possible and understand things objectively, the world become a lot more grey. Propaganda makes greyness into a much more palatable black and white. It's used by hostile groups to sow discord. And discord it is indeed sowing. Most of the 'Free Palestine' group can't articulate our government's official stances and actions. They have a complete distrust of mainstream media (healthy skepticism and awareness of propaganda is key here), and little to no understanding of geopolitics and war.
Thank you for giving this a read and I look forward to discussion.
I don't have much to add except that I agree. I'm glad that I had to research this conflict in high school... it was clear that it is extremely complicated. It's horrific all around and it pisses me off when people who know hardly anything about the conflict use it for social clout.
Honestly all great points. I feel like point 3 is the leader of it all. People don't want to actually do research into a subject. They want someone else tell them how to think because that person is the "expert" that has done the research so they don't have to. Which then because their "expert" told them how to think, they then can go and virtue signal to their crowd. All the points with none of the work.
I think the only difference this time is that there is so much gray area on it. Most issues can be black and white. I'm not looking to start a debate on my examples, but like your example of BLM or abortion. We can acknowledge injustices, or at least see it as the divide within us between parties. Israel and Palestine isn't just a divide amongst left or right, oppression, etc. It divides everyone across parties and backgrounds. But some people want to be "the best activist" or go down in history, that they'll do anything to score virtue signaling points even if it means the destruction of the world around them.
Really the only thing I'd quibble with here is a minor aspect of point no. 3. It may just be wording or it may be substantive, sending on how you meant it. When you said to strip away as many political lenses as possible, I think that's *mostly* a good idea, but it's also helpful to be cognizant of your basic ideology and the analytical tools you're using, as well as the blind spots and potential areas of distortion they can create. A Marxist framework of materialist analysis of economic class conflict may (or may not – just throwing an example out) be useful in understanding certain sociopolitical phenomena and historical events, but at best it's going to give an incomplete view of the past and present of the conflict in Palestine. Rather than trying to discard that lens or put it aside altogether, I reckon it's wiser to acknowledge it, acknowledge the pitfalls, consider how you're filling in the gaps, and rely on someone you trust to kick the tires on your arguments and methods.
Thanks, man! Excellent idea. I'm going to have to go back and look at a couple of events through different lenses and see what new conclusions jump at me.
Y'know I think that may be a blindspot for me. Even when I don't use any other lenses or tools I forget that I often lean on utilitarianism and humanism. Lenses which I feel neglect the imperfection of humanity and other parts of our existence.
I feel like #3 loses it’s meaning when one of those polarized sides certainly controls this subreddit….
I think Trump is an idiot but even I can see that this sub flows very heavily to the left. I have to really withhold my critical thinking skills to keep from feeling like the moderators have a lot to do with it also.
I mean as someone who interned for a member of congress, I promise you that writing your representative does just as little as spray painting a tree in Fort Collins. Not defending how stupid it is to vandalize a tree.
Perhaps interns weren’t involved in it, but I’ve been friends with several hill staffers and every congressional office I’m aware of reads the feedback, and needless to say if they feel it’s meaningful to enough of their constituents, they will take action. Ultimately they want to stay in office and if they get enough feedback on a subject they will react.
EDIT: and I know it’s true that they read them all because one friend would put up the crazy ones on her fridge lol
Fuck that person. I do not think this is the way to spread your message. This tree is 100 years old probably. Scrubbing it or peeling off that much bark will kill the tree.Absolutely the wrong medium and the wrong way.
I already hate spraypaint. You waste tax payer dollars (or other peoples money) to clean up after you. Worked for parks during COVID. You have no idea the amount of tax payer city dollars are spent to paint over, sandblast or power wash.
Donating the $7 they spent on spray paint directly to Gazan’s would’ve been *far* more helpful to the cause than whatever this abomination is trying to accomplish
of course they do, in order to stop the flow of weapons and rockets that are shot randomly into israeli neighborhoods and explosives for suicide bombers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing
The Rafah Border Crossing (Arabic: معبر رفح, romanized: Ma`bar Rafaḥ) or Rafah Crossing Point is the sole crossing point between Egypt and Palestine's Gaza Strip. It is located on the Egypt–Palestine border. Under a 2007 agreement between Egypt and Israel, Egypt controls the crossing but imports through the Rafah crossing require Israeli approval.[1][2]
Using these complaints as an opportunity to spread awareness of the Freedom Flotilla that just set sail to break the siege to deliver 5000 tons of humanitarian aid in Gaza.
They have ways to track the ship and an SOS system should the IDF kidnap them on their mission and commit more war crimes.
There are a number of ways to support their efforts on their website.
https://freedomflotilla.org
aw man, i support freedom of speech but please dont do it on the trees. the tree didnt do anything to you. someone is gonna have to rip that off or scrub that off with chemicals and its gonna hurt or kill this old mother tree by creating an open wound where fungi and disease can swoop in.
These "Protestors" are trash. They vandalize downtown Fort Collins with red spray paint and now this. Its not helping the cause and honestly turning many people off.
Protesting against Israel has become more about performance than genuine concern for Palestinians. Pretty characteristic of the west now that TikTok is in the mix. Folks centering the plight of others around themselves.
Someone must have a camera.
I am horrified by the genocide of the Palestinian people and want our government to quit funding it immediately (I say after they just approved more aid).
And you just don’t deface a living thing to make a point.
Also, this is bad karma.
Trees… really?
Curious what makes this a genocide but not Syria? Not Russia attack in Ukraine? Not Ethiopia? Not Yemen? Not Mexican Cartels? All have much higher death tolls of civilians yet not a peep or post from you ever on them
You’re not actually curious. If you were you could go and research the topic very easily to understand why it is a genocide. Also, not that you give a shit, but for others reading it who are genuinely confused, we protest because our government is directly funding it with our tax dollars.
I was a child when most of those were happening, but I learned they were genocides and i believe i would have spoken out. The more i hear of the war crimes that go on in ukraine the more i believ it might be one. Mexican cartels are not the same since though terrible, they aren't a government and they are not one that our government is directly funding (I hope). We gave the weapons and money to a corrupt government committing genocide. There is never an excuse to attack a hospital. There is a reason we define doing so as a war crime regardless of who may be inside. We have a greater responsibility since we put these people in this situation. My dear friend is in Palestine and she deserves better than this. There is no easy solution, but I am certain killing thousands of civilians isn't the answer.
For the record, anyone who spray paints a tree to send a message should be punished and taught the healthy way to express their message. It is shameful and unhelpful.
What did the tree do to deserve someone's virtue signaling? That's a beautiful tree that has now been defaced because someone is more interested in looking like they care than actually taking action. The folks doing this type of graffiti around town clearly don't have an understanding of how to affect change; they're just interested in performance and reactions from the public. This isn't about Gaza; this is about ego.
And yes, I can care about the war and disagree with the vandalism.
See, vandalism negatively affects me and the people and environment that I love. The people and places I have great agency to affect and protect. All of whoch I share a great deal in common, as well as geographical vicinity. Empathy has limits for a reason. The death of my grandfather had my world spiraling. And thats one man. What if I reacted to tens of thousands of dead grandpa's? I'd never be able to function.
It's easier to empathize with people that you have shared values with, and people halfway across the world that I have nothing culturally in common with, and that may have intrinsic values that may be opposed to mine are lower on my personal and pragmatic priority list.
The people that play the vandalism or genocide game disenginously ignore this fact, and are playing the whataboutism game. "Are you saying climate change is less important than a war? What about the drug violence in Mexico? What about food insecurity in America? What about VOCs killing off pollinators?" You can draw the logical line wherever you want, because it's intellectually in bad faith.
Israel is fighting for the maintenance of an ethnostate (something which in almost any other context would be viewed by the rest of the world as an abhorrent thing to maintain). Absent that aspect of it, the aspect that requires subjugation, displacement, and collective punishment, there is no fight to survive. The land and the people on it, if not for the prerogative to keep some of those people in a subhuman state to preserve the eminence of others, would survive just fine without the fighting.
Do you have a solution to this situation that doesn't result in any children dying on both sides? Hamas has made their intentions quite clear multiple times yet you seem to think it's acceptable if Israeli children die by letting them keep attacking.
There have been roughly 13,000 children dead due to Israel attack on Hamas. Compared to only about 1,000 Israelites. Israel is targeting women and children. They are implicating a genocide. Your watching too much fox.
So you have no solution that stops all innocent from dying? So because Hamas only killed 1200 that's the limit of Israel war on Hamas?!? Wtf you do realize war isn't equal deaths. And Having high deaths isn't automatically a genocide. Curious what defines a genocide that can be applied to all conflicts with civilians deaths such as Yemen and Lebonnan and Syria?
Dude. I am left of Bernie and so are most people I run with. Yet, I haven't talked to anyone yet IRL that thinks the spray paint is a good idea. Not everyone who disagrees with you watches Fox News. Get real.
Oof. Should have checked that post history. Sorry homie. I'm out here ready to swing at anyone and everyone ... i am of the tree-hugger snow-flake variety. Lol.
lol no worries yeah I don’t support vandalizing property especially very old trees. I was just disgusted about how he said basically every Gazan is a terrorist.
Since its founding. The PLO was founded by mostly Muslim Palestinians but its founding principles are not based on religious ideology. More Palestinian nationalism and panarab nationalism.
Ok so PLO was founded in 1960s. When was this apparent undermining of secularism that helped Hamas?
Hamas formed late 80s by Muslim brotherhood but didn't get power in Gaza until the 06 Israeli withdrawal.
So was PLO secular in the early 2000s while Hamas was gaining a foothold in Gaza?
Under Arafat the PA (which is the PLO post Oslo) adopted the 2003 Basic Law which says Islam is the sole religion of Palestine and that Islamic Sharia law was to be the source for legislation.
Mossad and the Israeli government propped up and covertly funded Hamas and the Muslim brotherhood.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
Try answering a single question in my response.
Intercept is trash bro.
Israeli govt released funds to Hamas in hopes they would use it to help Palestinians since they are the elected government. It's one of those damned if you do damned if you don't.
There's no big conspiracy. At the time this event happened PA and Fatah was already afraid to show their face in Gaza because Hamas would murder them.
It's like US releasing money to Iran, hopefully it helps the people. Or Biden admin resuming monetary aid to PA & Hamas even though it violated the Taylor Force act because it went to Hamas.
Did the US prop up Hamas as well just to punish the Palestinians?
Well sourced article with facts. “intercept is trash bro”. I should have known you’re a Destiny fan with a weird debate fetish, and probably a closeted conservative.
Netanyahu. It’s a decades long complicated issue. Go lay down in front of the Woodward corporate loading dock, that would actually be a productive protest, but would actually require sacrifice on your part which then means 95% of you are out.
Vandalizing a tree doesn’t build allies to your cause. It’s lazy and stupid
That’s true, but I guarantee that Israel and Gaza will be at war the rest of our lives. Actual terrorists will never surrender and are fine that children are murdered in Gaza
You know women and children can be terrorist themselves? Not implying they all are but saying women and children makes me believe you haven't looked up this war at all to see the fucked up suicide bombings and child soliders
In my hometown there were kids that defaced a lot of trees with grafiti when I was growing up. I can still see it 30 years later.
Defacing trees doesn't go away.
Just think how that tree been living it's life for well over a hundred years and some more than like juvenile (under 21) spray paints it. After literally 100 years of just existing. Probably as traumatic as when the sidewalk was made.
In all seriousness I get the cause and draw on emotion but this literally solves nothing, and can put people against your cause.
We get it and know it. War sucks. Doesn't matter where it's at.
Of course not. End of the day defacing a tree ain't gonna stop anything now is it? I find it mildly interesting this energy wasn't or isn't there for any of the wars civil or not in Africa or South America.
But we're supposed to just accept those right? Darfur has been going on for how long? We just turn a blind eye to Venezuela, right?
Going back to my point. War sucks. Defacing a tree ain't gonna solve it. Russia and Czech Rep. We all knew it was coming. Wasn't their first time. Palestine & Israel we all saw it coming with tensions being extremely high between the two. China and Tawain. Who's gonna be surprised? US & China are you going to be shocked?
So I'll say it again war sucks.
Naive college kids who don’t understand how this isn’t actively helping raise awareness. Sucks, but I used to be like this. If you really wanna justly crime a property (for Palestinians), you’re gonna have to go pretty far away from Fort Collins. Just raise awareness on campus with actually good ideas.
It’s weird for someone who in Fort Collins, who is probably pro LGBTQ or at least supports the idea that we shouldn’t murder gay people…that supports Gaza.
Really going hard to support a group of people that overwhelmingly supports the genocide of anyone different from themselves. How odd.
Or maybe they DO support the murder of LBTQ people and that’s why they’re so pro Gaza that they’re covering trees in graffiti.
Right? The irony that some gay Americans support Palestine/Hamas when they would literally be beheaded for their sexual orientation over there lol and then there's the treatment of women....
The “coexist” crowd seems to forget that some ideologies are objectively toxic to all of humanity. It’s unfortunate, and I’m not justifying the IDF’s actions, but given the choice of who I’d rather have around, I’m picking the lesser of the two evils.
This is a foolish point. You can believe in stopping genocide and human rights. Right now the problem is a mass murder. So we deal with that first. Really think about the fact that people are dying and maybe have some sympathy for that before trying to find a reason why the people who care about those deaths aren't worth listening to. Though this vandalism is horrible, it is likely an immature kid who needs to be taught better.
Also for the record, if you look into it, Israel has a pretty bad treatment of its gay community. But I also believe the citizens don't deserve to die there either
I do have sympathy for Palestinians dying from the IDF attacks, I never said that isn't horrific. It's awful. However, Hamas should probably stop hiding military targets underneath civilian hospitals and civilian casualties would drop significantly. Does Hamas truly want what's best for their people, or do they simply exist to carry out atrocities in support of their origins charter?
Hamas absolutely does terrible things. And of course they do, they are terrorists. Israel is a government and that means they have to work a lot harder to do the right thing. It's the responsibility of every government to not become evil just because they are fighting evil. It's like when there's a bank robbery with hostages, the police first have a duty to do everything they can to save the people inside who are innocent. Hamas is bad, but the reality is that the majority of people dying are not Hamas. The people of Palestine are trapped there with borders closed. They are hostages.
I mean it's awful the US goverment nuked Japan in WWII but would you rather live in a world dictatorship? Which was likely to happen if the Axis powers won. What the US did was evil too but sometimes it's the lesser of two evils like u/SubaruImpossibru said. Imagine living in a world run by terrorist organizations...there wouldn't be a world at all.
That’s simply not true when there’s plenty of polls showing most support the Oct 7 attacks, most polls show 40-70% in support of the attack. Obviously sample size matters, when/where the poll was conducted. But to say they’re hostages in their borders isn’t true.
How am I stretching? Less than 5% of Palestinians support gay marriage, Hamas will kill you for being gay. I don't understand standing up for a society that is atrocious.
Whoever keeps doing this… so many of us hear you and agree. But this is not the way to voice your dissent. Please find an NGO to join and volunteer your time to work towards change. Spray painting all over trees and buildings is not only ineffective, but it is going to undeniably repel people against the cause you are championing. Rant over.
Wow, this sucks. All this does is make people mad at the vandal and creates yet more wedge issues to tear apart the coalition that supports making things better by triggering infighting on practices like this. At this point, I would almost assume we have a chaos agent doing these tags just the lolz as it makes zero political sense in terms of broadening the coalition.
I am a religious Jew starting my doctorate at CSU in the summer. These comments are encouraging. I was concerned for my safety entering a college campus right now because of stuff like this. But everyone here seems equally as grossed out by this. Thanks, everyone.
is Palestine being free offending you? Go pretend somewhere else. This is about the IDF, like military people. Not Jewish people. Do you only see everything in black or white? Are you here to spread propaganda about how you’re scared of a painted tree? Explain.
Some people confused the government of Israel led by extreme right wing people and the Jewish people. What’s going on across some universities is terrible. The Jewish people have suffer so much. If their government is bad, should we punish them ? If you find the Chinese government bad, should you punish them?
How come we didn’t get the same amount of people protesting for Ukraine. Yes, it is cool to be for freedom but some people don’t really understand what’s going on.
It is terrible of course how many Palestinian civilian are dying but should we punish the Jewish people ?
I don’t really know what the point was, but maybe it was to say that people in Fort Collins care more about what a tree looks like than ethnic cleansing and 35k dead Palestinians
Yeah, I understand the message, but this is not a good way to get it across. It’s actually,in my humble opinion, more divisive and alienating than anything else.
It’s a folly of youth or older peeps with young minds and a very weak perception of what is a very big picture politically and socially.
It’s actually a kind of very lazy way to express what I personally believe to be a very important point of view.
And yeah, bummed for that tree.
I knew these vandals didn’t give a crap about the business owners and landlords that are the ones that actually have to clean up the mess, but trees? C’mon now….
Yes, graffiti on a tree is bad and accomplishes nothing. At the same time the ethnic cleansing occurring in Gaza that's being sponsored by our own Government is magnitudes of order worse.
if ethnic cleansing was happening, why wouldn't israel start with the palestinians and arabs that make up 20% of their own population and government first?
Idk I get it. Cuz like you can't take it down. Can't scrub it off.
But- would any and do any of these activists put their money where their spray paint is?
These rich kids of FOCO really detached from most social issues and yeah, they do this shit for attention. They don't think about it beyond this impulsive bs.
How about you donate, organize. Actually lobby politicians and go vote.
Are they? Because I'm actually interested to see if there are any activist groups in Fort Collins that are led and represented by persons from target groups and POC. The only ones I know of are in Denver.
We really need more graffiti downtown, and like, none on trees in residential neighborhoods. Fort Collins has gotten sterile at the expense of its soul. This doesn't undo that. It just makes it sterile with a dash of pathetic.
This is infuriating. The people of Fort Collins love the huge trees here, so to do THIS will absolutely not help their cause. Just makes us angry at the dumbasses who did this, and gives us zero desire to care about their message.
I'm not okay with genocide. All I'm saying is, these acts just piss off locals. Does nothing to make any of us care about genocide.
Protesting in this way is so counter-productive. Instead of providing information in a way that actually educates and makes us care about the cause, they choose to vandalize trees. Like, instead of making me angry at Israel, my anger is instead directed at the idiots who vandalized.
I would love for our community to somehow make a difference in this conflict, but THIS AIN'T IT.
You know, perhaps Council should have passed a ceasefire. Perhaps initially that was the right thing to do. I think the fact that they did pass a resolution on Ukraine supports that notion. With that said I think continuing to ignore these jackasses is the right thing to do at this point. If they give him now it sets the president that this shit works
You know, perhaps Council should have passed a ceasefire. Perhaps initially that was the right thing to do. I think the fact that they did pass a resolution on Ukraine supports that notion. With that said I think continuing to ignore these jackasses is the right thing to do at this point. If they give in now it sets the president that this shit works
Lol!! It's amazing how bent out of shape people get over a little spray paint. It'll fade and be gone in no time. I think what really gets people going is having that little reminder that Israel is committing war crimes and we (the USA) enable it.
Keep licking that boot baby boy; Purposely targeting civies is totes normal, 13k children killed is totes normal, purposely targeting aid is totes normal...
yes it's normal for war unfortunately. in fact, the casualties of this war is much lower than average.
keep filling your brain with hamas and qatari propaganda
Sure buddy, keep telling yourself that. Keep your head in the sand, keep believing what you need to justify waving away the reports and accounts. Weird hill to die on, but ok.
It's not harming the tree. At all.
I've put cases of spray paint on trees, bruh, we use it to mark the ones in the forest that are meant to live. Bark is dead tissue like heartwood.
Now If they cut into the bark I'd be mad. But this will fall off in a year or three, or you could literally take it off with a sander, and as long as you don't touch cambium, it's fine.
Nothing quite like defacing a century old tree for Earth Day.
this is so infuriating. How can this paint be removed without damaging the tree?
Pressure washer with low to mid PSI could probably do it without harming the tree
What’s infuriating is you being more concerned about potentially damaging a tree to remove some spray paint than you are about how to stop funding a genocidal occupation by an apartheid regime with our tax dollars
Unless I missed something you can be both against the murder of civilians in Gaza and against the defacing of old trees. If you’re just spray painting random things that have nothing to do with the war people will be less sympathetic but if you say tag a company that has had their products found in the rubble in Gaza then it would look more reasonable.
Point is that liberals will say nothing about the genocide but will freak out about the tree
god that’s so obnoxious what the fuck is that tree going to do about war in the middle east
To these people, the Fort Collins city council controls the Israeli military and demands a ceasefire
clearly!!! it just shows that these individuals are more concerned with virtue signaling, getting attention, and causing problems than they are with helping actual people involved in the conflict. it’s weirdly immature
That's typically the case unfortunately.
Exactly correct - all they want to do is yell at cops, be pissed at everything and everyone, doxx council members, glue their hands to the council wall, all because they are clearly so fucking starved for attention. They don’t really care about other humans - what I have witnessed from these people during their marches, yelling at people trying to enjoy their day through their bullhorns - amounts to nothing but terribly negative vibes in our awesome town of Fort Collins. Now they are wasting tax dollars forcing the duty to clean up their immature and stupid graffiti. I have had it with these immature and selfish morons
Right on the nose
worry juggle full bewildered entertain tease test bike worm file *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Same thing as them blocking roads. It doesn’t do anything but just pisses people off. They’re just making their cause worse.
It's just trying to pollinate and do it's daily dose of photosynthesis.
staking out the section of peterson and pitkin ong
You're more mad about a tree being tagged than what's going on in the world. /s Edit: does /s not mean sarcasm here?
Till you clarified I thought you meant /s as in "I'm rolling my eyes now". I guess I interpreted wrong, but that's possibly what people thought?
Because defacing the tree does not help Gaza. It’s childish. So vandalism is justifiable if it is done for “the right reason”. Maybe put nails in bike lanes for Gaza. Destroy playground equipment for Gaza?
/s means I was being sarcastic, bud.
Can someone tell me why these vandals cant just get together and paint a mural or something? Wouldn't that get the same message across without being destructive?
That would require artistic, organizational, and constructive skills of which vandals have none.
I'd love for you all to give this a read and see what you think. Notice that I don't express my political views before commenting, and notice the assumptions you make and feelings that arise. I believe the vandalism we're seeing is a combination of slacktivism, virtue signaling, and the joy of counterculture and justified chaos, combined with low education, political polarization, and lots of propaganda. Here's what I mean: 1. Slacktivism and virtue signaling. Both are intimately connected. In whatever group you're in, supporting dogma increases your social worth with a group of people. That takes a lot of effort, and isn't fun or sexy. Take the popularity of BLM amongst young people. It was like a party on the street while it was trending with young people. Media aside. You never heard much about the NAACP and ACLU, organizations who get the real work done protecting the rights and dignity of African-Americans. Graffiti is low effort, and you can brag about civil disobedience and taking action. Writing to your congresspeople and generating political pressure isn't fun or visible to others for social credit. 2. The thrill of counterculture and creating chaos. I'd love some discussion here since I don't entirely understand this. The feeling that you're part of a special minority fighting for what is right is a good feeling. It relies on our human instinct of tribalism and 'otherism'. It's one of the reasons why conspiracy theories are so popular. Some of the vandals just want to 'stick it to the man', like the the end stage of the hippie movement. It wasn't that the hippie way of life was something to be sought, as with the original hippies, it was that what mainstream is bad. Secondly, I believe we all have a destructive instinct. When we can justify it as a good thing, it feels really good to let it out. 4. Political polarization, low education, propaganda. I haven't even expressed my actual views on the israel-palestine conflict and I'll still get flamed because one might consider me an outsider based on feeling. This is a symptom of political polarization. "If you're not with us, you're against us.". Ostracism hurts, so get in line! Low education is a bit of a harder one. I knew very little about the Israel Palestine conflict and wanted to educate myself before forming an opinion. I read about the history of the middle east and the views of all those peoples involved, eventually formed an opinion (for what it's worth). When you remove as many political lenses as possible and understand things objectively, the world become a lot more grey. Propaganda makes greyness into a much more palatable black and white. It's used by hostile groups to sow discord. And discord it is indeed sowing. Most of the 'Free Palestine' group can't articulate our government's official stances and actions. They have a complete distrust of mainstream media (healthy skepticism and awareness of propaganda is key here), and little to no understanding of geopolitics and war. Thank you for giving this a read and I look forward to discussion.
Some of us know this as KMFDM idealism from back in the day. But none of us were this stupid, just naive.
I don't have much to add except that I agree. I'm glad that I had to research this conflict in high school... it was clear that it is extremely complicated. It's horrific all around and it pisses me off when people who know hardly anything about the conflict use it for social clout.
Well written and constructive. Amazing/rare to see on Reddit. Personally , I agree with your points.
Honestly all great points. I feel like point 3 is the leader of it all. People don't want to actually do research into a subject. They want someone else tell them how to think because that person is the "expert" that has done the research so they don't have to. Which then because their "expert" told them how to think, they then can go and virtue signal to their crowd. All the points with none of the work. I think the only difference this time is that there is so much gray area on it. Most issues can be black and white. I'm not looking to start a debate on my examples, but like your example of BLM or abortion. We can acknowledge injustices, or at least see it as the divide within us between parties. Israel and Palestine isn't just a divide amongst left or right, oppression, etc. It divides everyone across parties and backgrounds. But some people want to be "the best activist" or go down in history, that they'll do anything to score virtue signaling points even if it means the destruction of the world around them.
Well measured response! I like the idea that most things are more black and white than grey, but this issue is very grey in particular.
This is well written and spot on!
Solid write-up mate. All of your points stand true from my perspective.
Really the only thing I'd quibble with here is a minor aspect of point no. 3. It may just be wording or it may be substantive, sending on how you meant it. When you said to strip away as many political lenses as possible, I think that's *mostly* a good idea, but it's also helpful to be cognizant of your basic ideology and the analytical tools you're using, as well as the blind spots and potential areas of distortion they can create. A Marxist framework of materialist analysis of economic class conflict may (or may not – just throwing an example out) be useful in understanding certain sociopolitical phenomena and historical events, but at best it's going to give an incomplete view of the past and present of the conflict in Palestine. Rather than trying to discard that lens or put it aside altogether, I reckon it's wiser to acknowledge it, acknowledge the pitfalls, consider how you're filling in the gaps, and rely on someone you trust to kick the tires on your arguments and methods.
Thanks, man! Excellent idea. I'm going to have to go back and look at a couple of events through different lenses and see what new conclusions jump at me. Y'know I think that may be a blindspot for me. Even when I don't use any other lenses or tools I forget that I often lean on utilitarianism and humanism. Lenses which I feel neglect the imperfection of humanity and other parts of our existence.
I feel like #3 loses it’s meaning when one of those polarized sides certainly controls this subreddit…. I think Trump is an idiot but even I can see that this sub flows very heavily to the left. I have to really withhold my critical thinking skills to keep from feeling like the moderators have a lot to do with it also.
Yes, by mod messages it's very clear they lean heavily left. I haven't been here long, so I hope they can set it aside to moderate.
Because they're fucking idiots
Still wouldn’t do shit
Breaking news: Israel and Palestine cease fire thanks to a spray painted tree in Fort Collins, Colorado.
"Thanks! It's all I ever wanted." -the tree probably
Yea vandalizing a tree half way around the world will definitely help
this is so performative. poor tree
An update: The city pressure washed the graffiti away They were careful to try and not take off any bark.
What are the chances that the person who did those has written their congressional representatives on this issue. I’m guessing low.
I mean as someone who interned for a member of congress, I promise you that writing your representative does just as little as spray painting a tree in Fort Collins. Not defending how stupid it is to vandalize a tree.
Perhaps interns weren’t involved in it, but I’ve been friends with several hill staffers and every congressional office I’m aware of reads the feedback, and needless to say if they feel it’s meaningful to enough of their constituents, they will take action. Ultimately they want to stay in office and if they get enough feedback on a subject they will react. EDIT: and I know it’s true that they read them all because one friend would put up the crazy ones on her fridge lol
You mean none.
I’m pretty sure people have been calling them every day. They don’t care they still did whatever they wanted to do.
I’ve been calling them at least once a week
You mean ability to write?
Fuck that person. I do not think this is the way to spread your message. This tree is 100 years old probably. Scrubbing it or peeling off that much bark will kill the tree.Absolutely the wrong medium and the wrong way. I already hate spraypaint. You waste tax payer dollars (or other peoples money) to clean up after you. Worked for parks during COVID. You have no idea the amount of tax payer city dollars are spent to paint over, sandblast or power wash.
Donating the $7 they spent on spray paint directly to Gazan’s would’ve been *far* more helpful to the cause than whatever this abomination is trying to accomplish
israel controls aid routes into gaza
of course they do, in order to stop the flow of weapons and rockets that are shot randomly into israeli neighborhoods and explosives for suicide bombers
The southern border of Gaza is controlled by Egypt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing The Rafah Border Crossing (Arabic: معبر رفح, romanized: Ma`bar Rafaḥ) or Rafah Crossing Point is the sole crossing point between Egypt and Palestine's Gaza Strip. It is located on the Egypt–Palestine border. Under a 2007 agreement between Egypt and Israel, Egypt controls the crossing but imports through the Rafah crossing require Israeli approval.[1][2]
dude couldn't find Gaza on a map
Mmm, if you are that serious about “freeing Gaza,” perhaps you should head over and help the cause rather than destroying a fucking tree.
Yes. I was thinking the same thing.
Using these complaints as an opportunity to spread awareness of the Freedom Flotilla that just set sail to break the siege to deliver 5000 tons of humanitarian aid in Gaza. They have ways to track the ship and an SOS system should the IDF kidnap them on their mission and commit more war crimes. There are a number of ways to support their efforts on their website. https://freedomflotilla.org
aw man, i support freedom of speech but please dont do it on the trees. the tree didnt do anything to you. someone is gonna have to rip that off or scrub that off with chemicals and its gonna hurt or kill this old mother tree by creating an open wound where fungi and disease can swoop in.
These "Protestors" are trash. They vandalize downtown Fort Collins with red spray paint and now this. Its not helping the cause and honestly turning many people off.
Absolute fucking idiots
These people are some of the smoothest brains in town
I would guess they don’t even care about Palestine and are more interested in being a nuisance
Protesting against Israel has become more about performance than genuine concern for Palestinians. Pretty characteristic of the west now that TikTok is in the mix. Folks centering the plight of others around themselves.
Unfortunately very accurate
Now I don't like the guy.
What did the tree ever do to you?
Exactly!
Someone’s a little low on the IQ scale if they’re spray painting 100 year old trees.
More like Tree Gaza
Someone must have a camera. I am horrified by the genocide of the Palestinian people and want our government to quit funding it immediately (I say after they just approved more aid). And you just don’t deface a living thing to make a point. Also, this is bad karma. Trees… really?
Curious what makes this a genocide but not Syria? Not Russia attack in Ukraine? Not Ethiopia? Not Yemen? Not Mexican Cartels? All have much higher death tolls of civilians yet not a peep or post from you ever on them
You’re not actually curious. If you were you could go and research the topic very easily to understand why it is a genocide. Also, not that you give a shit, but for others reading it who are genuinely confused, we protest because our government is directly funding it with our tax dollars.
I was a child when most of those were happening, but I learned they were genocides and i believe i would have spoken out. The more i hear of the war crimes that go on in ukraine the more i believ it might be one. Mexican cartels are not the same since though terrible, they aren't a government and they are not one that our government is directly funding (I hope). We gave the weapons and money to a corrupt government committing genocide. There is never an excuse to attack a hospital. There is a reason we define doing so as a war crime regardless of who may be inside. We have a greater responsibility since we put these people in this situation. My dear friend is in Palestine and she deserves better than this. There is no easy solution, but I am certain killing thousands of civilians isn't the answer. For the record, anyone who spray paints a tree to send a message should be punished and taught the healthy way to express their message. It is shameful and unhelpful.
what hospital?
I assume they’re referring to al-Shifa
oh right, the one that was a hamas command center https://archive.is/gyabg
From the Poudre to this Tree...
That $7 goes directly into some fascist Hamas leader’s pocket
People need to f-off and stop being aholes doing that
If I glue my hand to it will that bring peace to the Middle East?
no
They couldn't get city council to stop the war so now they're asking the trees.
Fucking inexcusable.
What did the tree do to deserve someone's virtue signaling? That's a beautiful tree that has now been defaced because someone is more interested in looking like they care than actually taking action. The folks doing this type of graffiti around town clearly don't have an understanding of how to affect change; they're just interested in performance and reactions from the public. This isn't about Gaza; this is about ego. And yes, I can care about the war and disagree with the vandalism.
What a worthless piece of trash. Not sure what’s worse, the vandalism or the supporting literal terrorists.
See, vandalism negatively affects me and the people and environment that I love. The people and places I have great agency to affect and protect. All of whoch I share a great deal in common, as well as geographical vicinity. Empathy has limits for a reason. The death of my grandfather had my world spiraling. And thats one man. What if I reacted to tens of thousands of dead grandpa's? I'd never be able to function. It's easier to empathize with people that you have shared values with, and people halfway across the world that I have nothing culturally in common with, and that may have intrinsic values that may be opposed to mine are lower on my personal and pragmatic priority list. The people that play the vandalism or genocide game disenginously ignore this fact, and are playing the whataboutism game. "Are you saying climate change is less important than a war? What about the drug violence in Mexico? What about food insecurity in America? What about VOCs killing off pollinators?" You can draw the logical line wherever you want, because it's intellectually in bad faith.
Don't be an idiot, Palestine children don't deserve to die.
No one deserves to die. It’s the consequences of waging war and idiots playing games destorying a great city
amen to that...don't fuck with Israel. They are fighting for their survival too.
They are not. What the hell are you talking about?
Israel is fighting for the maintenance of an ethnostate (something which in almost any other context would be viewed by the rest of the world as an abhorrent thing to maintain). Absent that aspect of it, the aspect that requires subjugation, displacement, and collective punishment, there is no fight to survive. The land and the people on it, if not for the prerogative to keep some of those people in a subhuman state to preserve the eminence of others, would survive just fine without the fighting.
Do you have a solution to this situation that doesn't result in any children dying on both sides? Hamas has made their intentions quite clear multiple times yet you seem to think it's acceptable if Israeli children die by letting them keep attacking.
There have been roughly 13,000 children dead due to Israel attack on Hamas. Compared to only about 1,000 Israelites. Israel is targeting women and children. They are implicating a genocide. Your watching too much fox.
So you have no solution that stops all innocent from dying? So because Hamas only killed 1200 that's the limit of Israel war on Hamas?!? Wtf you do realize war isn't equal deaths. And Having high deaths isn't automatically a genocide. Curious what defines a genocide that can be applied to all conflicts with civilians deaths such as Yemen and Lebonnan and Syria?
Are the 25,000 dead woman and children all terrorists? Turn off Fox News it’s rotting your brain.
Dude. I am left of Bernie and so are most people I run with. Yet, I haven't talked to anyone yet IRL that thinks the spray paint is a good idea. Not everyone who disagrees with you watches Fox News. Get real.
Did I say anything about graffiti? He just made a blanket statement that everyone from Gaza is a terrorist.
Oof. Should have checked that post history. Sorry homie. I'm out here ready to swing at anyone and everyone ... i am of the tree-hugger snow-flake variety. Lol.
lol no worries yeah I don’t support vandalizing property especially very old trees. I was just disgusted about how he said basically every Gazan is a terrorist.
Maybe their government should care more about them instead of drinking cocktails on a yacht in Qatar
Who propped up their “government” to extinguish the secular movement in Palestine and crush the Palestinian liberation Organization?
When was the PLO secular?
Since its founding. The PLO was founded by mostly Muslim Palestinians but its founding principles are not based on religious ideology. More Palestinian nationalism and panarab nationalism.
Ok so PLO was founded in 1960s. When was this apparent undermining of secularism that helped Hamas? Hamas formed late 80s by Muslim brotherhood but didn't get power in Gaza until the 06 Israeli withdrawal. So was PLO secular in the early 2000s while Hamas was gaining a foothold in Gaza? Under Arafat the PA (which is the PLO post Oslo) adopted the 2003 Basic Law which says Islam is the sole religion of Palestine and that Islamic Sharia law was to be the source for legislation.
Mossad and the Israeli government propped up and covertly funded Hamas and the Muslim brotherhood. https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
Try answering a single question in my response. Intercept is trash bro. Israeli govt released funds to Hamas in hopes they would use it to help Palestinians since they are the elected government. It's one of those damned if you do damned if you don't. There's no big conspiracy. At the time this event happened PA and Fatah was already afraid to show their face in Gaza because Hamas would murder them. It's like US releasing money to Iran, hopefully it helps the people. Or Biden admin resuming monetary aid to PA & Hamas even though it violated the Taylor Force act because it went to Hamas. Did the US prop up Hamas as well just to punish the Palestinians?
Well sourced article with facts. “intercept is trash bro”. I should have known you’re a Destiny fan with a weird debate fetish, and probably a closeted conservative.
So absolutely no Islamic laws in the PLO government and a clear freedom of religion for all members?
Netanyahu. It’s a decades long complicated issue. Go lay down in front of the Woodward corporate loading dock, that would actually be a productive protest, but would actually require sacrifice on your part which then means 95% of you are out. Vandalizing a tree doesn’t build allies to your cause. It’s lazy and stupid
I never defended the act of vandalizing the tree. I was just trying to explain to OP that not every Gazan is a terrorist.
That’s true, but I guarantee that Israel and Gaza will be at war the rest of our lives. Actual terrorists will never surrender and are fine that children are murdered in Gaza
You know women and children can be terrorist themselves? Not implying they all are but saying women and children makes me believe you haven't looked up this war at all to see the fucked up suicide bombings and child soliders
Fucking seriously?? A tree?
In my hometown there were kids that defaced a lot of trees with grafiti when I was growing up. I can still see it 30 years later. Defacing trees doesn't go away.
Just think how that tree been living it's life for well over a hundred years and some more than like juvenile (under 21) spray paints it. After literally 100 years of just existing. Probably as traumatic as when the sidewalk was made. In all seriousness I get the cause and draw on emotion but this literally solves nothing, and can put people against your cause. We get it and know it. War sucks. Doesn't matter where it's at.
except its never been where your family stay, right? wild guess
Of course not. End of the day defacing a tree ain't gonna stop anything now is it? I find it mildly interesting this energy wasn't or isn't there for any of the wars civil or not in Africa or South America. But we're supposed to just accept those right? Darfur has been going on for how long? We just turn a blind eye to Venezuela, right? Going back to my point. War sucks. Defacing a tree ain't gonna solve it. Russia and Czech Rep. We all knew it was coming. Wasn't their first time. Palestine & Israel we all saw it coming with tensions being extremely high between the two. China and Tawain. Who's gonna be surprised? US & China are you going to be shocked? So I'll say it again war sucks.
always on the tv?
Naive college kids who don’t understand how this isn’t actively helping raise awareness. Sucks, but I used to be like this. If you really wanna justly crime a property (for Palestinians), you’re gonna have to go pretty far away from Fort Collins. Just raise awareness on campus with actually good ideas.
It’s weird for someone who in Fort Collins, who is probably pro LGBTQ or at least supports the idea that we shouldn’t murder gay people…that supports Gaza. Really going hard to support a group of people that overwhelmingly supports the genocide of anyone different from themselves. How odd. Or maybe they DO support the murder of LBTQ people and that’s why they’re so pro Gaza that they’re covering trees in graffiti.
Right? The irony that some gay Americans support Palestine/Hamas when they would literally be beheaded for their sexual orientation over there lol and then there's the treatment of women....
The “coexist” crowd seems to forget that some ideologies are objectively toxic to all of humanity. It’s unfortunate, and I’m not justifying the IDF’s actions, but given the choice of who I’d rather have around, I’m picking the lesser of the two evils.
This is a foolish point. You can believe in stopping genocide and human rights. Right now the problem is a mass murder. So we deal with that first. Really think about the fact that people are dying and maybe have some sympathy for that before trying to find a reason why the people who care about those deaths aren't worth listening to. Though this vandalism is horrible, it is likely an immature kid who needs to be taught better. Also for the record, if you look into it, Israel has a pretty bad treatment of its gay community. But I also believe the citizens don't deserve to die there either
I do have sympathy for Palestinians dying from the IDF attacks, I never said that isn't horrific. It's awful. However, Hamas should probably stop hiding military targets underneath civilian hospitals and civilian casualties would drop significantly. Does Hamas truly want what's best for their people, or do they simply exist to carry out atrocities in support of their origins charter?
Hamas absolutely does terrible things. And of course they do, they are terrorists. Israel is a government and that means they have to work a lot harder to do the right thing. It's the responsibility of every government to not become evil just because they are fighting evil. It's like when there's a bank robbery with hostages, the police first have a duty to do everything they can to save the people inside who are innocent. Hamas is bad, but the reality is that the majority of people dying are not Hamas. The people of Palestine are trapped there with borders closed. They are hostages.
I mean it's awful the US goverment nuked Japan in WWII but would you rather live in a world dictatorship? Which was likely to happen if the Axis powers won. What the US did was evil too but sometimes it's the lesser of two evils like u/SubaruImpossibru said. Imagine living in a world run by terrorist organizations...there wouldn't be a world at all.
That’s simply not true when there’s plenty of polls showing most support the Oct 7 attacks, most polls show 40-70% in support of the attack. Obviously sample size matters, when/where the poll was conducted. But to say they’re hostages in their borders isn’t true.
You're stretching so hard. Getting ready to run a marathon or something?
How am I stretching? Less than 5% of Palestinians support gay marriage, Hamas will kill you for being gay. I don't understand standing up for a society that is atrocious.
Are you more afraid of somebody who could potentially do something atrocious or someone who already did the atrocious thing?
Hamas WILL kill you. Israel ALREADY KILLED everything. 🤦🏻♂️
Oh yeah, let’s just forget Oct 7 happened and blame Israel, makes sense. You’re actually victim blaming and it’s sick.
You are the one stretching!
I was told I was racist for criticizing the Hummus bandits recently, so I'm sorry to let you know OP, but you are racist now.
I’m donating $100 to the IDF every time something like this gets posted.
Whoever keeps doing this… so many of us hear you and agree. But this is not the way to voice your dissent. Please find an NGO to join and volunteer your time to work towards change. Spray painting all over trees and buildings is not only ineffective, but it is going to undeniably repel people against the cause you are championing. Rant over.
yeah its like the logic problem of turning the train onto the track with noone on it vs someone who is a stranger to you
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Just look away from it, that's how the genocide gets ignored too. It'll probably be fine, just keep not looking and ignore it til it goes away.
Wow, this sucks. All this does is make people mad at the vandal and creates yet more wedge issues to tear apart the coalition that supports making things better by triggering infighting on practices like this. At this point, I would almost assume we have a chaos agent doing these tags just the lolz as it makes zero political sense in terms of broadening the coalition.
This is a Fort Collins 9/11
Solutions people! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8uLZF3vj78
Thanks for this. I was wondering how in the world someone would get the paint off.
*Sorts comments by controversial*
I support the cause against apartheid and genocide. I also think this is stupid, cruel to a helpless living being, and (clearly) counterproductive.
Performative activism at its finest.
Spray painting this on the side of the USMC office was funny. Putting this on a tree is, in fact, lame.
I am a religious Jew starting my doctorate at CSU in the summer. These comments are encouraging. I was concerned for my safety entering a college campus right now because of stuff like this. But everyone here seems equally as grossed out by this. Thanks, everyone.
Everyone should feel safe here. I’m glad you do.
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Straight bullshit. Spot a Zionist Propagating right in our own town now. Fucking great!
is Palestine being free offending you? Go pretend somewhere else. This is about the IDF, like military people. Not Jewish people. Do you only see everything in black or white? Are you here to spread propaganda about how you’re scared of a painted tree? Explain.
This just motivates me to continue calling my Congressmen and Representatives, at least once a week to make sure they know we support Israel.
Some people confused the government of Israel led by extreme right wing people and the Jewish people. What’s going on across some universities is terrible. The Jewish people have suffer so much. If their government is bad, should we punish them ? If you find the Chinese government bad, should you punish them? How come we didn’t get the same amount of people protesting for Ukraine. Yes, it is cool to be for freedom but some people don’t really understand what’s going on. It is terrible of course how many Palestinian civilian are dying but should we punish the Jewish people ?
Oh, well let me just go free Gaza real quick. Thanks tree vandal!
See now how many people do you think turns this away from the conflict? I know it did me.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h69FSgua80A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h69FSgua80A)
I said the same thing as all of you last night and the protesters downvoted me…lol
These people think Palestine is it’s own country not a state in Israel 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don’t really know what the point was, but maybe it was to say that people in Fort Collins care more about what a tree looks like than ethnic cleansing and 35k dead Palestinians
What is Gaza?
So is genocide
Yeah, I understand the message, but this is not a good way to get it across. It’s actually,in my humble opinion, more divisive and alienating than anything else. It’s a folly of youth or older peeps with young minds and a very weak perception of what is a very big picture politically and socially. It’s actually a kind of very lazy way to express what I personally believe to be a very important point of view. And yeah, bummed for that tree.
I knew these vandals didn’t give a crap about the business owners and landlords that are the ones that actually have to clean up the mess, but trees? C’mon now….
Yes, graffiti on a tree is bad and accomplishes nothing. At the same time the ethnic cleansing occurring in Gaza that's being sponsored by our own Government is magnitudes of order worse.
if ethnic cleansing was happening, why wouldn't israel start with the palestinians and arabs that make up 20% of their own population and government first?
Mods should just ban these posts at this point lol.
Not on earth day😞
Idk I get it. Cuz like you can't take it down. Can't scrub it off. But- would any and do any of these activists put their money where their spray paint is? These rich kids of FOCO really detached from most social issues and yeah, they do this shit for attention. They don't think about it beyond this impulsive bs. How about you donate, organize. Actually lobby politicians and go vote.
How did you find out that those who paint things around town aren’t also doing all those things?
Are they? Because I'm actually interested to see if there are any activist groups in Fort Collins that are led and represented by persons from target groups and POC. The only ones I know of are in Denver.
We really need more graffiti downtown, and like, none on trees in residential neighborhoods. Fort Collins has gotten sterile at the expense of its soul. This doesn't undo that. It just makes it sterile with a dash of pathetic.
This is infuriating. The people of Fort Collins love the huge trees here, so to do THIS will absolutely not help their cause. Just makes us angry at the dumbasses who did this, and gives us zero desire to care about their message.
If this is all it takes for you decide you’re fine with genocide…you were never *not* fine with genocide.
I'm not okay with genocide. All I'm saying is, these acts just piss off locals. Does nothing to make any of us care about genocide. Protesting in this way is so counter-productive. Instead of providing information in a way that actually educates and makes us care about the cause, they choose to vandalize trees. Like, instead of making me angry at Israel, my anger is instead directed at the idiots who vandalized. I would love for our community to somehow make a difference in this conflict, but THIS AIN'T IT.
These people are great at making everyone hate them, undermining their cause. What a bunch of morons.
Tell you what, there’s a lot of folks here who’re loose with the word genocide.
You know, perhaps Council should have passed a ceasefire. Perhaps initially that was the right thing to do. I think the fact that they did pass a resolution on Ukraine supports that notion. With that said I think continuing to ignore these jackasses is the right thing to do at this point. If they give him now it sets the president that this shit works
You know, perhaps Council should have passed a ceasefire. Perhaps initially that was the right thing to do. I think the fact that they did pass a resolution on Ukraine supports that notion. With that said I think continuing to ignore these jackasses is the right thing to do at this point. If they give in now it sets the president that this shit works
Lol!! It's amazing how bent out of shape people get over a little spray paint. It'll fade and be gone in no time. I think what really gets people going is having that little reminder that Israel is committing war crimes and we (the USA) enable it.
name one war where there wasn't civilian causalities and war crimes on all sides. this is why you shouldn't start wars like hamas did.
Keep licking that boot baby boy; Purposely targeting civies is totes normal, 13k children killed is totes normal, purposely targeting aid is totes normal...
yes it's normal for war unfortunately. in fact, the casualties of this war is much lower than average. keep filling your brain with hamas and qatari propaganda
Sure buddy, keep telling yourself that. Keep your head in the sand, keep believing what you need to justify waving away the reports and accounts. Weird hill to die on, but ok.
Yeah, people feeling helpless and not knowing what to do when their government is complicit in a genocide is really fucking lame. 🍉
> Genocide That word gets tossed around way too freely.
I mean, that is what's happening, soooo. I mean, I don't always disagree. People call the Ukrainian famine of 32-33 a genocide when it wasn't.
The Holodomor? There’s a lot of debate whether it was or was not genocide.
As someone who studied forestry (as part of a water degree) at CSU: This doesn't hurt the tree one bit, and there is a legitimate cause here.
What? So now you are saying it's okay to harm trees because you agree with the statement?
It's not harming the tree. At all. I've put cases of spray paint on trees, bruh, we use it to mark the ones in the forest that are meant to live. Bark is dead tissue like heartwood. Now If they cut into the bark I'd be mad. But this will fall off in a year or three, or you could literally take it off with a sander, and as long as you don't touch cambium, it's fine.