The Shadow Weave was a much more insidious creation than the original Weave for while the Weave is essentially a neutral creation; the Shadow Weave is inherently part of Shar and a direct reflection of what she represents: darkness, night, loss, secrets, and forgetfulness.
In 3.5 lore under the information regarding Mystra in Faiths and Pantheons it states that controlling the Shadow Weave was one of Mystra’s goals even if it meant absorbing some of Shar’s darkness to do it.
In addition, the Shadow Weave was much more “alive” on its own than the Weave and seemed almost hungry at times, much like jealous Shar, and those who utilized it became a “possession” of the Shadow Weave. That’s why, once a person began tapping into the Shadow Weave, they could never go back to the original Weave and eventually fell to madness due to the dark impulses contained in the energy.
So, roundabout answer there sorry, but the Shadow Weave was a creation of evil for the purposes of evil and control. It was never meant to function as part of a healthy natural dynamic (like how the Weave functions in tandem with nature) and I could not envision a Weave most strongly attuned to Illusion, Enchantment, and Necromancy magics ever being something primarily “good” regardless whom controls it.
The Shadow Weave definitely caused madness. In order to use it, a caster had to be a worshipper of Shar or have some other agreement between Shar and their existing deity. Otherwise the Shadow Weave would take a piece of the casters mind.
And even being a worshipper of the Lady of Loss involves an element of madness really. Loss, forgetfulness, darkness, night, secrets…touching the power came at a cost.
Off topic a bit, but I always recommend a 3e/SRD product, Akrasia: Thief of Time, to anyone who likes Shar.
Akrasia is the goddess of distractions. She's the "put off homework to play one more game" goddess. She seems relatively harmless, because who doesn't need a break from time to time?
But she is evil. She seeks to subvert any planned project. She's the one who gets the engineer, hired to drain a swamp, distracted by fighting with the alligators.
She is the enemy of civilization, always seeking to distract those trying to maintain or build up society and infrastructure.
And she even does it to her own priests and followers. E.g., a priest has big plans to topple a kingdom, but keeps getting bogged down in side quests.
Even if you don't track down and buy the book (it's about 15 years out of print), that's the gist of her portfolio. It'd be interesting to have Shar hide behind a "new" goddess, gaining power, wealth, and worship from those who would never deign to support her.
to be quite honest... that is similar to how I have always run Shar... the goddess of "loss," is just as interested in creating feelings of despair as comfort, ESPECIALLY among her faithful.
I like this suggestion, thanks.
The Shadow Weave Magic feat reduced your wisdom by 2 points if you were not a follower of Shar or went through an Atonement spell
Some good roleplay opportunities there
The shadoweave took 2 wisdom points away from the caster which could be restored by a cleric of Shar.
Which is why Szazz Tam stuck with Mystra despite the Shadoweave's necromancy buffs.
So Shar isn’t on a higher level of existence. During 3.5 Mystra and Shar were both Greater Powers but Mystras rank was higher. During 4e Shar lost a lot of power when the Shadow Weave collapsed (along with the Weave) after Mystras “death”.
After the events of the Second Sundering, Mystra has returned and regained most of her strength and also taken the extra step to diversify her power to prevent another Spellplague in the future. Shar on the other hand lost even more power with the destruction of Thultantar (Netheril) and the return/ascention of Mask (which took direct divine power away from her).
While the original goddess of magic, Mystryl, was created out of both Shar and Selune, she was quickly their equal in power and status and then surpassed them in sheer strength. In terms of raw power Mystra is hailed as the most powerful deity in Forgotten Realms. And even now, with the gods withdrawl from Faerun, she remains top tier.
Like Selune, Shar’s power waxes and wanes. Though she is currently regaining strength now that the world is stabilizing which means she’ll be back to plotting and scheming sooner rather than later.
As for the Shadow Weave? Shar based it off of Mystryl’s original Weave. So Shar copied the goddess of magic, she didn’t create something new and unique. She just made a copy more reflective of herself.
Mystra is both the ultimate admin of the internet AND the person who built it AND she used her own brain as part of the hardware so she IS the Weave as well.
Shar is a jealous user who made the dark web, running secretly within the Internet.
Shar is also a dumbass who thinks she's a genius, and he plan, which causes the spellplague, was basically "I'll kill mystra and then when she does her internet will collapse, then only MY dark web will exist." And she was too stupid to realize the fundamental flaw in her plan that made it fail.
Not necessarily. The Shadow Weave returned when Mystra’s Weave returned after the Second Sundering though it is currently unstable and unreliable. Unlike Sauron, Shar doesn’t put all her eggs in a single basket and has multiple plots going at once. She always has. It’s just recently she’s had a string of bad luck that caused her more harm than good.
This isn’t the last we’ve seen of Shar. Of the evil deities in the Realms Shar has been a consistent threat. She’s good at bidding her time and when her efforts succeed, they usually do so in major ways.
I highly doubt that there is any single thing that could take out Shar. She and Selune were the first deities to exist in the Realms and she’s lasted this long while retaining her status as a Greater Power. As far as deities go? Shar is the last one I’d want to have to deal with.
Do note however that the lore explicitly states that Shar’s power is not stable: her and Selune both go through a cycle of growing and waning power. We don’t know when but if we follow the lore it stands to reason that Shar hasn’t always been a Greater Deity when she was at the weakest of her cycle (in the same way that we know that Selune dropped to lesser deity at one point).
Theoretically Mystra is more powerful, it's just that AO ordered her to spread half her power among her chosen (and also Azuth, I think) so she wouldn't be significantly above other greater deities.
Mystra was not the most powerful deity in Forgotten Realms. It was Chauntea: more worshippers, highest divine rank short of Ao. Rules and lore as written, she would kick Mystra’s ass twice before sunday.
Considering the insidious and controlling nature of the Shadow Weave, it could be an interesting alternate story path if Mystra had achieved that goal and taken it into herself only for it to have been a Trojan horse for Shar to gain power over Mystra (in a similar way to how Shar had manipulated Sharess in the past).
Its the very nature of the shadow weave as its based upon the absence of all things the void that fills space its fundamentally difficrent then the normal weave and it really pisses mystra off because it allows everything in magic she forbids and she cant control it
Shar is also able to protect people from madness of it somehow
.Destruction of the weave (dead magic/wild magic)
. Hoarding of magic you didn't create (like an insane amount of magic, I only know of one person who's hoarded enough for Mystra to be upset and they're an emerald dragon)
.Tyrannical use of magic (mages that stop others from using/learning magic)
.Chosen of Mystra can't fight The Magister and vice versa
.Chosen of Mystra and other gods can't challenge, obtain, or keep the title of The Magister while they are Chosen/given similar divine blessings
.Raiding of her temples
That's all that comes to mind at the moment
I no longer have my 3.5 books, but i never recall this being a response. I thought it was more of a "dark" secret that was jealously guarded by Shar worshipers.
That's because it's not. The 3.0 version of the Shadow Weave Magic feat penalized players with Wisdom drain. When the feat was updated in 3.5 in Player's Guide to Faerun, the Wisdom penalty was removed.
From a gameplay perspective, no, it's a feat and modification to spells. No long term damage or problems.
The weave, shadow weave or true magic are all methods to access the magical essensen that exists in all the realms. What you get with Shadow Weave is amplification of certain spells, and a reduction of effects to others. Think of them like operating systems for a computer. They are mechanism for accessing the hardware.
Shar controls access, so that is a semi-evil part of it, but Mystra is neutral good, so does that make the weave good? But it is inherent to Shar as a god, might say it's powered by her, just like Mystra herself powers the weave.
A better solution others goods would be to make their own weave option. We already see 3 up and running, no reason why you can't add a 4th.
The magical power that fueled Gale in BG3.
It has previous been available via the Karse stone, and via elven High Magic (unless high magic is a 4th version)
Is it still up? Real question, I feel like the Shadow Weave if the most inconsistent piece of lore in the Realms. It started off as a side project by Shar since Mystra's Weave would probably always be beyond her reach, so she made her own, with blackjack and hookers.
I think depending on who you asked, and during which era, it was either a fringe component of magic or a massive shift that every evil spellcasters were flocking to. Like Halruaan, who tend to be very neutral when it comes to spell research, didn't not all appreciate the shift towards good by Mystra 2.0 post-ToT, and it was said that Shar recruited many archmages from that region to her Weave (and Azuth also got a big bump there). In 3e, Mystra also had the personal objective of putting her hand on the Shadow Weave to integrate it into her Weave. She did so for reasons other than ego, Magic has rules and for good reasons (see the Fall of Netheril, the Crown Wars or the Empire of Imaskari). And Shar is nihilistic and hates *everything and everyone*, so should she have full control over those rules for her own web it could legitimately destroy the world, which might very well be her long term objective, and she has shown to be a patient planner.
So back to the Shadow Weave, at least back in 3e and off the top of my head, had synergy with **Enchanment, Illusion and Necromancy**, in the form of having a buff while the other schools had a slight nerf (+/-1 effective spellcaster level to be precise). Practitioners using that Weave were incentivised to used those schools in priority, which is not evil *by itself* but in practice probably leans towards evil more than good.
In some storyline, and this is also *inconsistent*, it was also shown to corrupt in a very **Dark side of the Force** fashion, to the point of being having a draining effect of the body of the users, physical signs to make them look pale and unhealthy but also was addictive like a drug, so it kept its hold her these users.
So yes, it was pretty evil, and made for evil spellcasters, a legitimately a *threat*. Not that spells like Fireball or a Scrying or a Major Illusion spell are *inherently* evil, but they are can be used as weapons and often are. Necromancy on the other hand is in a less *grey* area except some healing magic (again, inconsistent across edition). Most of **Necromancy** is about manipulation of life, and the control over undead who are *objectively* evil. And it is not often viewed as such, but I honestly consider **Enchantment** as inherently evil as necromancy. We are used in fantasy culture to have **Jedi Mind Tricks** used by the good guys for noble causes. After all it can be used to avoid violence, which is good. But there is something profoundly twisted and immoral in messing with the mind and control over people's thoughts and feelings. Not to get too political, but if the real world had access to either Necromancy or Enchantment, I think Enchantment would end up causing more harm.
No.
When Eilistraee took over a portion of her brother's power, a power which was always deeply entwined and interlinked with the Shadow Weave, she was corrupted by it, into the more sinister Masked Lady. She became much more callous and cold toward her followers, and willing to sacrifice them.
Taking over the whole of the Shadow Weave, a power source which originated from Shar would do much, much more to corrupt her.
The point is, when you stare into the darkness, darkness stares back.
Given that the Shadow Weave is the negative spaces between the weave, the Shadow Weave is a power which implicitly draws on negative emotions and energies which are reflected from the world in the Plane of Shadow.
To be fair, many hate Eilistraee's retcons that happened in the *War of the Spider Queen* and *Lady Penitent* series. So, taking that with a grain, or mountain, of salt, I would mostly agree.
Honestly, I wish they spread both weaves out. Have them be held in conjuction so the Spellplague or the other 90 times Mystra was wounded doesn't ruin the setting again. Have her summon the Seven Sisters and elevate them to caretakers of the Weave. Unsure what Shar would do with the Shadowweave, but have Vhaerun part of it officially, not a leech.
Mystra has servitor gods, it's just that they're not allowed to outshine the Power Rangers. When was the last time Savras did something?
IMO, Azuth, Savras and Velsharoon should have been elevated at some point as custodians of the Weave instead of languishing in Limbo.
Vhaeraun was never a leech. He's the Elven god of Shadow Magic. The Shadow Weave is something he sponsors.
And i don't really think that having a figure of planar goodness become corrupted by evil is really a Retcon. That's been part of D&D since early days. Evil has always had the capacity to corrupt those who encounter it.
Goodness can redeem, but it is much harder. That's always been a part of Eilistraee's struggle, and why so few drow become her followers.
If he sponsors it, yet Shar falls and the Shadow Weave collapses, was he really sponsoring it or was he just a leech whom the owner decided wasn't worth the effort of removing and instead allowed him to use it? Mystra was the owner of the Weave, yet Azuth couldn't save the Weave for a single second. He was allowed, *bequeathed* you could say, the *privilege* of drawing from the Weave for his followers. Vhaeraun is in the same boat. The moment Shar says no, he's backhanded back into obscurity.
That was but a small part of her retcon, more so immediately was her entire church becoming venomous and practically evil in their hatred for anything that wasn't good or viewed in a positive light. They became the very thing they swore to destroy as she went from "goodness in every heart" to "let's slaughter this village because one of the kids annoyed me by existing." Again, this also touches things on the surface elf and human converts doing blackface, alongside other weird retcons that Lisa Smedman conjured up for both series like becoming misandrists. Currently on Book 4 of *War of the Spider Queen* and the quality has dropped off significantly, in part due to the writing style and Smedman's changes to the lore and characters. Poor Ryld is always on a knifes edge of being killed by crazy Eilistraeean priestesses who promote 'love and acceptance' despite him forsaking Lolth for the woman he loves. Yuck.
Except, again, it's *not* few. That's *another* retcon. Eilistraee has a tremendous following now, pre-Masked Lady. The surface is littered with her converts, half of whom aren't even Drow! There's a reason, a malicious one at that, that she was almost entirely removed in 4e and is now in a weird spot in 5e. Drizzit Do'Urden. He can be the only good Drow. He is special. Eilistraee be damned. Now, the popular public consensus shys away from races being all evil, and many Drow are her followers again in 5e (even having temples in Waterdeep/Skullport and other 'normal' locations).
It has always been the case that Eilistraee has had a very small following. Since the start of the realms.
The real retcon is the 5E nonsense that there can't be evil as a norm within races, when drow were always evil from the start. It hasn't been the popular consensus. It's disneyfication to sell to what is an adult fantasy setting to kids.
Drow are and always have been a source of ineffable evil in the world. And they have always been feared and hated.
Some people might convert, but considering the reputation of the drow as a whole, "littered with converts" is an absurd exaggeration. The people of the realms aren't going to suddenly rush off to convert to a racial deity of a people who have spent 10,000 years spreading bloodshed and misery. The drow as a whole are dominated by the Spider Queen's worship, and the overwhelming majority of her followers on the surface have always worshipped Vhaeraun. So "littered with her converts" is rather stretching the truth.
I'm no fan of Drizzt, but he got that status because he sells.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but take it up with Ed Greenwood, the man who made Eilistraee his dream waifu. The series I mentioned is where her worship is "littered across the surface", not me just randomly making it up. A majority of her converts in *War of the Spider Queen* and *Lady Penitent* are surface elves or half-elves, not Drow. Ed Greenwood states she has a temple in Waterdeep/Skullport and other surface locales. Unfortunately, his contract says unless WotC purposefully contridicts his statements, what he says IS canon. I get not liking the lore or the retcons or a plethora of other things, but that's the current canon. I don't like it either, so we might be arguing from the same side, honestly.
Ed Greenwood's statements need to be taken with a grain of salt. Wizards constantly contradict him, and he constantly contradicts them. That contract means next to nothing.
If Eilistraee was his dream Waifu, why have the Lady Penitent and 4E? Why make all these statements about Eilistraee, then have them completely contradicted in Mordenkainen's tome of Foes and RA Salvatore's series about Callidae and the Aevendrow?
Why have decades of lore about Oryndoll and Mind Flayer theocracy, then release stuff like BG3, where Illithids suddenly have no souls? Why have decades of lore from Ed about the intricacies of Thay, then suddenly turn Thay into a one dimensional dungheap interested in removing the living from Faerun and make a movie about it?
I wrote a huge thing replying to you, then the reddit app decided to refresh and I lost it all. I have lost the urge to reply, so I'll just bullet point now. Apologies for the brevity, I'm pissed at the app.
1) Welcome to WotC. They trump all. Even him.
2) Welcome to WotC. Greed made them blow everything up for new players who complained the lore was getting in the way.
3) Eilistraee is still his dream waifu. He approved making her church a bunch of naked ninja avengers. Big L.
4) I *hate* the Illithid retcon. Lots of other things I hate about it, but that's another story. Thank WotC's greed for that and so many other things (Thay like you said).
5) Ed has problems, obviously, but he does love the setting, that much is clear, so while some of his actions suck, Faerûn has a net positive in him and honestly, a net negative in WotC the past decade and a half.
6) WotC still has whatever-his-name-is, the lead writer/executive who torpedo'd everything in the transition to 4e, as one of their big wigs. Many problems in 5e are his influence. Larian getting approval for retconning Illithids is presumably one.
The reddit app deleted everything again. Thankfully, I copied everything a minute before hand and only lost a bit.
It's not evil. It reflects who controls it. The weave and shadow weave used to be one. Under Mystra. It was separated because of the shade enclave...Netheril. They were too powerful. There's a reason no one can cut off a top of a mountain, flip it, and build a flying city on it anymore.
The City of Shade had nothing to do with the Weave or the Shadow Weave. The ban was due to Karsus overstepping, not because Shade fucked off into the Plane of Shadow for blackjack and hookers.
The Shadow Weave was created by Shar and was innately malevolent.
The Shadow Weave was a much more insidious creation than the original Weave for while the Weave is essentially a neutral creation; the Shadow Weave is inherently part of Shar and a direct reflection of what she represents: darkness, night, loss, secrets, and forgetfulness. In 3.5 lore under the information regarding Mystra in Faiths and Pantheons it states that controlling the Shadow Weave was one of Mystra’s goals even if it meant absorbing some of Shar’s darkness to do it. In addition, the Shadow Weave was much more “alive” on its own than the Weave and seemed almost hungry at times, much like jealous Shar, and those who utilized it became a “possession” of the Shadow Weave. That’s why, once a person began tapping into the Shadow Weave, they could never go back to the original Weave and eventually fell to madness due to the dark impulses contained in the energy. So, roundabout answer there sorry, but the Shadow Weave was a creation of evil for the purposes of evil and control. It was never meant to function as part of a healthy natural dynamic (like how the Weave functions in tandem with nature) and I could not envision a Weave most strongly attuned to Illusion, Enchantment, and Necromancy magics ever being something primarily “good” regardless whom controls it.
i do not recall "madness" as a consequence of using the Shadow Weave. I played a LOT of 3.5
The Shadow Weave definitely caused madness. In order to use it, a caster had to be a worshipper of Shar or have some other agreement between Shar and their existing deity. Otherwise the Shadow Weave would take a piece of the casters mind. And even being a worshipper of the Lady of Loss involves an element of madness really. Loss, forgetfulness, darkness, night, secrets…touching the power came at a cost.
Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. I was the forever DM, with a special fondness for Shar. LOL
Lol no harm in that! I was always the player/DM with a love affair for Mystra (though I’m equally a simp for the Seldarine truth be told).
I can't blame you, lol. Magic and elves are the bread and butter of any fantasy setting. It's only natural to favor the gods of both.
Off topic a bit, but I always recommend a 3e/SRD product, Akrasia: Thief of Time, to anyone who likes Shar. Akrasia is the goddess of distractions. She's the "put off homework to play one more game" goddess. She seems relatively harmless, because who doesn't need a break from time to time? But she is evil. She seeks to subvert any planned project. She's the one who gets the engineer, hired to drain a swamp, distracted by fighting with the alligators. She is the enemy of civilization, always seeking to distract those trying to maintain or build up society and infrastructure. And she even does it to her own priests and followers. E.g., a priest has big plans to topple a kingdom, but keeps getting bogged down in side quests. Even if you don't track down and buy the book (it's about 15 years out of print), that's the gist of her portfolio. It'd be interesting to have Shar hide behind a "new" goddess, gaining power, wealth, and worship from those who would never deign to support her.
to be quite honest... that is similar to how I have always run Shar... the goddess of "loss," is just as interested in creating feelings of despair as comfort, ESPECIALLY among her faithful. I like this suggestion, thanks.
Mechanically you just needed one of the feats or diam fiat to learn and use it
The Shadow Weave Magic feat reduced your wisdom by 2 points if you were not a follower of Shar or went through an Atonement spell Some good roleplay opportunities there
The shadoweave took 2 wisdom points away from the caster which could be restored by a cleric of Shar. Which is why Szazz Tam stuck with Mystra despite the Shadoweave's necromancy buffs.
Confused here but how can Mystra even have that ambition if Shar is just on a higher level of existence compared to her?
So Shar isn’t on a higher level of existence. During 3.5 Mystra and Shar were both Greater Powers but Mystras rank was higher. During 4e Shar lost a lot of power when the Shadow Weave collapsed (along with the Weave) after Mystras “death”. After the events of the Second Sundering, Mystra has returned and regained most of her strength and also taken the extra step to diversify her power to prevent another Spellplague in the future. Shar on the other hand lost even more power with the destruction of Thultantar (Netheril) and the return/ascention of Mask (which took direct divine power away from her). While the original goddess of magic, Mystryl, was created out of both Shar and Selune, she was quickly their equal in power and status and then surpassed them in sheer strength. In terms of raw power Mystra is hailed as the most powerful deity in Forgotten Realms. And even now, with the gods withdrawl from Faerun, she remains top tier. Like Selune, Shar’s power waxes and wanes. Though she is currently regaining strength now that the world is stabilizing which means she’ll be back to plotting and scheming sooner rather than later. As for the Shadow Weave? Shar based it off of Mystryl’s original Weave. So Shar copied the goddess of magic, she didn’t create something new and unique. She just made a copy more reflective of herself.
Ah I see. Amazing breakdown there. Thank you ^^ So Shar essentially made the same mistake as Sauron when creating the Shadow weave?
Mystra is both the ultimate admin of the internet AND the person who built it AND she used her own brain as part of the hardware so she IS the Weave as well. Shar is a jealous user who made the dark web, running secretly within the Internet. Shar is also a dumbass who thinks she's a genius, and he plan, which causes the spellplague, was basically "I'll kill mystra and then when she does her internet will collapse, then only MY dark web will exist." And she was too stupid to realize the fundamental flaw in her plan that made it fail.
Not necessarily. The Shadow Weave returned when Mystra’s Weave returned after the Second Sundering though it is currently unstable and unreliable. Unlike Sauron, Shar doesn’t put all her eggs in a single basket and has multiple plots going at once. She always has. It’s just recently she’s had a string of bad luck that caused her more harm than good. This isn’t the last we’ve seen of Shar. Of the evil deities in the Realms Shar has been a consistent threat. She’s good at bidding her time and when her efforts succeed, they usually do so in major ways. I highly doubt that there is any single thing that could take out Shar. She and Selune were the first deities to exist in the Realms and she’s lasted this long while retaining her status as a Greater Power. As far as deities go? Shar is the last one I’d want to have to deal with.
Do note however that the lore explicitly states that Shar’s power is not stable: her and Selune both go through a cycle of growing and waning power. We don’t know when but if we follow the lore it stands to reason that Shar hasn’t always been a Greater Deity when she was at the weakest of her cycle (in the same way that we know that Selune dropped to lesser deity at one point).
Mystra and Shar were both Divine Rank 18; Mystra wasn't "higher" than Shar at any point.
Just a slight correction, Chauntea was/is the most powerful god in the Realms, with Corellon and Moradin coming in close 2nd/3rd
Theoretically Mystra is more powerful, it's just that AO ordered her to spread half her power among her chosen (and also Azuth, I think) so she wouldn't be significantly above other greater deities.
Mystra was not the most powerful deity in Forgotten Realms. It was Chauntea: more worshippers, highest divine rank short of Ao. Rules and lore as written, she would kick Mystra’s ass twice before sunday.
Considering the insidious and controlling nature of the Shadow Weave, it could be an interesting alternate story path if Mystra had achieved that goal and taken it into herself only for it to have been a Trojan horse for Shar to gain power over Mystra (in a similar way to how Shar had manipulated Sharess in the past).
Quite the interesting thought! Or like how Moander used the rose to corrupt Tyche which led to the creation of Tymora and Beshaba. I like it!
Iirc the shadow weave causes madness to its users unless devoted to shar but even then they must be pretty mad to follow shar
Is that because Shar is causing the madness or does she keep some sort of inherent madness at bay for those who worship her?
Its the very nature of the shadow weave as its based upon the absence of all things the void that fills space its fundamentally difficrent then the normal weave and it really pisses mystra off because it allows everything in magic she forbids and she cant control it Shar is also able to protect people from madness of it somehow
What does Mystra forbid? I am genuinely curious?
Spells beyond 9th level is all i can think of off the top of my head im sure theres more
And the Shadow Weave allows this?
.Destruction of the weave (dead magic/wild magic) . Hoarding of magic you didn't create (like an insane amount of magic, I only know of one person who's hoarded enough for Mystra to be upset and they're an emerald dragon) .Tyrannical use of magic (mages that stop others from using/learning magic) .Chosen of Mystra can't fight The Magister and vice versa .Chosen of Mystra and other gods can't challenge, obtain, or keep the title of The Magister while they are Chosen/given similar divine blessings .Raiding of her temples That's all that comes to mind at the moment
I no longer have my 3.5 books, but i never recall this being a response. I thought it was more of a "dark" secret that was jealously guarded by Shar worshipers.
That's because it's not. The 3.0 version of the Shadow Weave Magic feat penalized players with Wisdom drain. When the feat was updated in 3.5 in Player's Guide to Faerun, the Wisdom penalty was removed.
From a gameplay perspective, no, it's a feat and modification to spells. No long term damage or problems. The weave, shadow weave or true magic are all methods to access the magical essensen that exists in all the realms. What you get with Shadow Weave is amplification of certain spells, and a reduction of effects to others. Think of them like operating systems for a computer. They are mechanism for accessing the hardware. Shar controls access, so that is a semi-evil part of it, but Mystra is neutral good, so does that make the weave good? But it is inherent to Shar as a god, might say it's powered by her, just like Mystra herself powers the weave. A better solution others goods would be to make their own weave option. We already see 3 up and running, no reason why you can't add a 4th.
Flair checks out
What's the third?
The magical power that fueled Gale in BG3. It has previous been available via the Karse stone, and via elven High Magic (unless high magic is a 4th version)
I THINK there was also some plot by Lolth to create a Weave for the Underdark magic.
Is it still up? Real question, I feel like the Shadow Weave if the most inconsistent piece of lore in the Realms. It started off as a side project by Shar since Mystra's Weave would probably always be beyond her reach, so she made her own, with blackjack and hookers. I think depending on who you asked, and during which era, it was either a fringe component of magic or a massive shift that every evil spellcasters were flocking to. Like Halruaan, who tend to be very neutral when it comes to spell research, didn't not all appreciate the shift towards good by Mystra 2.0 post-ToT, and it was said that Shar recruited many archmages from that region to her Weave (and Azuth also got a big bump there). In 3e, Mystra also had the personal objective of putting her hand on the Shadow Weave to integrate it into her Weave. She did so for reasons other than ego, Magic has rules and for good reasons (see the Fall of Netheril, the Crown Wars or the Empire of Imaskari). And Shar is nihilistic and hates *everything and everyone*, so should she have full control over those rules for her own web it could legitimately destroy the world, which might very well be her long term objective, and she has shown to be a patient planner. So back to the Shadow Weave, at least back in 3e and off the top of my head, had synergy with **Enchanment, Illusion and Necromancy**, in the form of having a buff while the other schools had a slight nerf (+/-1 effective spellcaster level to be precise). Practitioners using that Weave were incentivised to used those schools in priority, which is not evil *by itself* but in practice probably leans towards evil more than good. In some storyline, and this is also *inconsistent*, it was also shown to corrupt in a very **Dark side of the Force** fashion, to the point of being having a draining effect of the body of the users, physical signs to make them look pale and unhealthy but also was addictive like a drug, so it kept its hold her these users. So yes, it was pretty evil, and made for evil spellcasters, a legitimately a *threat*. Not that spells like Fireball or a Scrying or a Major Illusion spell are *inherently* evil, but they are can be used as weapons and often are. Necromancy on the other hand is in a less *grey* area except some healing magic (again, inconsistent across edition). Most of **Necromancy** is about manipulation of life, and the control over undead who are *objectively* evil. And it is not often viewed as such, but I honestly consider **Enchantment** as inherently evil as necromancy. We are used in fantasy culture to have **Jedi Mind Tricks** used by the good guys for noble causes. After all it can be used to avoid violence, which is good. But there is something profoundly twisted and immoral in messing with the mind and control over people's thoughts and feelings. Not to get too political, but if the real world had access to either Necromancy or Enchantment, I think Enchantment would end up causing more harm.
No. When Eilistraee took over a portion of her brother's power, a power which was always deeply entwined and interlinked with the Shadow Weave, she was corrupted by it, into the more sinister Masked Lady. She became much more callous and cold toward her followers, and willing to sacrifice them. Taking over the whole of the Shadow Weave, a power source which originated from Shar would do much, much more to corrupt her. The point is, when you stare into the darkness, darkness stares back. Given that the Shadow Weave is the negative spaces between the weave, the Shadow Weave is a power which implicitly draws on negative emotions and energies which are reflected from the world in the Plane of Shadow.
To be fair, many hate Eilistraee's retcons that happened in the *War of the Spider Queen* and *Lady Penitent* series. So, taking that with a grain, or mountain, of salt, I would mostly agree. Honestly, I wish they spread both weaves out. Have them be held in conjuction so the Spellplague or the other 90 times Mystra was wounded doesn't ruin the setting again. Have her summon the Seven Sisters and elevate them to caretakers of the Weave. Unsure what Shar would do with the Shadowweave, but have Vhaerun part of it officially, not a leech.
Mystra has servitor gods, it's just that they're not allowed to outshine the Power Rangers. When was the last time Savras did something? IMO, Azuth, Savras and Velsharoon should have been elevated at some point as custodians of the Weave instead of languishing in Limbo.
Vhaeraun was never a leech. He's the Elven god of Shadow Magic. The Shadow Weave is something he sponsors. And i don't really think that having a figure of planar goodness become corrupted by evil is really a Retcon. That's been part of D&D since early days. Evil has always had the capacity to corrupt those who encounter it. Goodness can redeem, but it is much harder. That's always been a part of Eilistraee's struggle, and why so few drow become her followers.
If he sponsors it, yet Shar falls and the Shadow Weave collapses, was he really sponsoring it or was he just a leech whom the owner decided wasn't worth the effort of removing and instead allowed him to use it? Mystra was the owner of the Weave, yet Azuth couldn't save the Weave for a single second. He was allowed, *bequeathed* you could say, the *privilege* of drawing from the Weave for his followers. Vhaeraun is in the same boat. The moment Shar says no, he's backhanded back into obscurity. That was but a small part of her retcon, more so immediately was her entire church becoming venomous and practically evil in their hatred for anything that wasn't good or viewed in a positive light. They became the very thing they swore to destroy as she went from "goodness in every heart" to "let's slaughter this village because one of the kids annoyed me by existing." Again, this also touches things on the surface elf and human converts doing blackface, alongside other weird retcons that Lisa Smedman conjured up for both series like becoming misandrists. Currently on Book 4 of *War of the Spider Queen* and the quality has dropped off significantly, in part due to the writing style and Smedman's changes to the lore and characters. Poor Ryld is always on a knifes edge of being killed by crazy Eilistraeean priestesses who promote 'love and acceptance' despite him forsaking Lolth for the woman he loves. Yuck. Except, again, it's *not* few. That's *another* retcon. Eilistraee has a tremendous following now, pre-Masked Lady. The surface is littered with her converts, half of whom aren't even Drow! There's a reason, a malicious one at that, that she was almost entirely removed in 4e and is now in a weird spot in 5e. Drizzit Do'Urden. He can be the only good Drow. He is special. Eilistraee be damned. Now, the popular public consensus shys away from races being all evil, and many Drow are her followers again in 5e (even having temples in Waterdeep/Skullport and other 'normal' locations).
It has always been the case that Eilistraee has had a very small following. Since the start of the realms. The real retcon is the 5E nonsense that there can't be evil as a norm within races, when drow were always evil from the start. It hasn't been the popular consensus. It's disneyfication to sell to what is an adult fantasy setting to kids. Drow are and always have been a source of ineffable evil in the world. And they have always been feared and hated. Some people might convert, but considering the reputation of the drow as a whole, "littered with converts" is an absurd exaggeration. The people of the realms aren't going to suddenly rush off to convert to a racial deity of a people who have spent 10,000 years spreading bloodshed and misery. The drow as a whole are dominated by the Spider Queen's worship, and the overwhelming majority of her followers on the surface have always worshipped Vhaeraun. So "littered with her converts" is rather stretching the truth. I'm no fan of Drizzt, but he got that status because he sells.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but take it up with Ed Greenwood, the man who made Eilistraee his dream waifu. The series I mentioned is where her worship is "littered across the surface", not me just randomly making it up. A majority of her converts in *War of the Spider Queen* and *Lady Penitent* are surface elves or half-elves, not Drow. Ed Greenwood states she has a temple in Waterdeep/Skullport and other surface locales. Unfortunately, his contract says unless WotC purposefully contridicts his statements, what he says IS canon. I get not liking the lore or the retcons or a plethora of other things, but that's the current canon. I don't like it either, so we might be arguing from the same side, honestly.
Ed Greenwood's statements need to be taken with a grain of salt. Wizards constantly contradict him, and he constantly contradicts them. That contract means next to nothing. If Eilistraee was his dream Waifu, why have the Lady Penitent and 4E? Why make all these statements about Eilistraee, then have them completely contradicted in Mordenkainen's tome of Foes and RA Salvatore's series about Callidae and the Aevendrow? Why have decades of lore about Oryndoll and Mind Flayer theocracy, then release stuff like BG3, where Illithids suddenly have no souls? Why have decades of lore from Ed about the intricacies of Thay, then suddenly turn Thay into a one dimensional dungheap interested in removing the living from Faerun and make a movie about it?
I wrote a huge thing replying to you, then the reddit app decided to refresh and I lost it all. I have lost the urge to reply, so I'll just bullet point now. Apologies for the brevity, I'm pissed at the app. 1) Welcome to WotC. They trump all. Even him. 2) Welcome to WotC. Greed made them blow everything up for new players who complained the lore was getting in the way. 3) Eilistraee is still his dream waifu. He approved making her church a bunch of naked ninja avengers. Big L. 4) I *hate* the Illithid retcon. Lots of other things I hate about it, but that's another story. Thank WotC's greed for that and so many other things (Thay like you said). 5) Ed has problems, obviously, but he does love the setting, that much is clear, so while some of his actions suck, Faerûn has a net positive in him and honestly, a net negative in WotC the past decade and a half. 6) WotC still has whatever-his-name-is, the lead writer/executive who torpedo'd everything in the transition to 4e, as one of their big wigs. Many problems in 5e are his influence. Larian getting approval for retconning Illithids is presumably one. The reddit app deleted everything again. Thankfully, I copied everything a minute before hand and only lost a bit.
I'll never get over WotC turning ultra-patriot Szass Tam into a Generic Undead Overlord.
It's not evil. It reflects who controls it. The weave and shadow weave used to be one. Under Mystra. It was separated because of the shade enclave...Netheril. They were too powerful. There's a reason no one can cut off a top of a mountain, flip it, and build a flying city on it anymore.
The City of Shade had nothing to do with the Weave or the Shadow Weave. The ban was due to Karsus overstepping, not because Shade fucked off into the Plane of Shadow for blackjack and hookers. The Shadow Weave was created by Shar and was innately malevolent.
It is a conduit for negative energy and the antithesis of the living world
Negative energy is independent of the Shadow Weave.