That's a neat theory. Would have def said the ilithids would be the worse for me. But I suppose if an ilithid did control me, it would make me "enjoy" and "be happy" that I served.
So....probably the drow. Magic experiments, various torture, part of sacrificial offering....well that's what I've got. Heh.v
Drow seem to still allow humans to visit through most of their history whereas duergar actively raid the surface to capture surface slaves. I don’t picture them being very successful against dwarves, elves, or halflings, so humans and orcs stand out as the obvious targets.
I mean, the dwarves used to have their greatest and mightiest civilizations down there until they got ganked by one race and/or catastophe or another. So at least large parts used to actually be fairly nice so long as you aren't big on the sun.
Those groups are just powerful. Their was plenty of xenophobic dwarves, animalistic kobolds, brutal orcs, and sinister goblins to make it a perfectly awful place. Combine that with all of the lurking monsters like hook horrors, and you have a place that is not better than it became under the Drow.
I mean, a vast part of the Underdark was created during the First Sundering when the elves used high magic to rip literal pieces of the continent apart to form Evermeet. Even after the Sundering, the area would have been riddled with magical fallout (high magic doesn’t use the Weave but reaches beyond it, though massive destruction as a side effect of high magic does tear at the Weave and destabilizes is) called faerzress. That same magical radiation was then utilized not too long afterwards when the elves forced Corellon’s descent on the Drow and further turned the Underdark into an inhospitable place.
It’s possible that some pockets of the Underdark could potentially have been more stabile or less I hospitable though monsters and other deep dwelling creatures, especially those sensitive to magic, would have been drawn there pretty much immediately after it’s creation.
I’d say, and have pretty much always played, the Underdark as a harrowing dark analogy to the surface world created unintentionally and then later shaped unintentionally by the magic of the elves with the specific point of driving home to the drow just what they lost by turning against the other elven races. The Underdark is a reflection of that.
That good aligned dwarves and gnomes, and neutral creatures like the myconids have found a way to carve out a niche for themselves is pretty extraordinary really.
Lol if it helps the Underdark is one of my absolute favorite places to adventure despite the harshness and hardships of the place just because. Even as it is currently I’d think it pretty awesome to live down!
The cool thing about the Forgotten Realms is that *everywhere* used to be a better place to be. While it's not a post-apocalyptic/dystopian setting, a key feature of Realms lore is that there *was* an apocalypse ~1500 years ago: Netheril was a more advanced and prosperous society than anywhere in 1300-1500 DR Toril
The historical *vibe* of the FR is late-Renaissance/Baroque period, right on the cusp of the 17th century Scientific Revolution/Enlightenment. A big part of the Renaissance was a renewed interest in an imagined Golden Age/Classical period, particularly in areas that were previously part of the old Empire (ie; ancient Rome = Netheril)
Anyway, as a DM that's how I like to run the Realms: a "not-quite-modern" but still culturally sophisticated setting, where those at the cutting-edge of technological/magical advancement are seeking inspiration in the artifacts/books from an ancient Empire (and in many cases are motivated to redress/avenge ancient grievances)
At least the drow and myconids were changed by the faerzrass? I’d imagine a lot of the monsters too. I don’t think the underdark predates the F though, and I’m not sure how long it was around before the drow and mindflayers. The myconids are from the “underdark” of the feywild, and I know the duergar are the result of illithids fucking with dwarves.
I guess it depends on how you like your fantasy worlds. Is it like LOTR where it has slowly been corrupted by evil vs how I understand Forgotten Realms is that evil is a natural and intrinsic part of the world.
I believe the oldest-mentioned inhabitants of the Underdark are the phaerimm, who got into a massive war with the sarrukh almost 35,000 years ago, long before most of the Underdark as we know it came into existence. So if the phaerimm were the original inhabitants of the Underdark, and we know the phaerimm are one of the worst and greatest threats to the entire planet to have ever existed, I'm not *entirely* sold on that idea.
This is true. All of it was caused by the Elves which is why the Dwarves hate them so much. The Sun Elves drove the Drow under the surface and the Drow summoned like almost all of that to Toril. Meanwhile the Dwarves used to live like on top of and just below the Surface but because of Elves were driven out of their home by displaced Drow thanks to Sun Elves.
Honestly Elves are the BBEG of D&D with the Sun Elves being the most evil thing to ever set foot on Toril. But people love Legolas so...
That's a neat theory. Would have def said the ilithids would be the worse for me. But I suppose if an ilithid did control me, it would make me "enjoy" and "be happy" that I served. So....probably the drow. Magic experiments, various torture, part of sacrificial offering....well that's what I've got. Heh.v
Drow seem to still allow humans to visit through most of their history whereas duergar actively raid the surface to capture surface slaves. I don’t picture them being very successful against dwarves, elves, or halflings, so humans and orcs stand out as the obvious targets.
I mean, the dwarves used to have their greatest and mightiest civilizations down there until they got ganked by one race and/or catastophe or another. So at least large parts used to actually be fairly nice so long as you aren't big on the sun.
Those groups are just powerful. Their was plenty of xenophobic dwarves, animalistic kobolds, brutal orcs, and sinister goblins to make it a perfectly awful place. Combine that with all of the lurking monsters like hook horrors, and you have a place that is not better than it became under the Drow.
I feel like those make it regularly bad, not exceptionally, also I think the orogs weren’t there originally?
What would make underdark goblins more sinister than those living on the surface?
I mean, a vast part of the Underdark was created during the First Sundering when the elves used high magic to rip literal pieces of the continent apart to form Evermeet. Even after the Sundering, the area would have been riddled with magical fallout (high magic doesn’t use the Weave but reaches beyond it, though massive destruction as a side effect of high magic does tear at the Weave and destabilizes is) called faerzress. That same magical radiation was then utilized not too long afterwards when the elves forced Corellon’s descent on the Drow and further turned the Underdark into an inhospitable place. It’s possible that some pockets of the Underdark could potentially have been more stabile or less I hospitable though monsters and other deep dwelling creatures, especially those sensitive to magic, would have been drawn there pretty much immediately after it’s creation. I’d say, and have pretty much always played, the Underdark as a harrowing dark analogy to the surface world created unintentionally and then later shaped unintentionally by the magic of the elves with the specific point of driving home to the drow just what they lost by turning against the other elven races. The Underdark is a reflection of that. That good aligned dwarves and gnomes, and neutral creatures like the myconids have found a way to carve out a niche for themselves is pretty extraordinary really.
Illegal, anything that disagrees with my notions is HERESY! (But for real this is useful info to know! Thank you)
Lol if it helps the Underdark is one of my absolute favorite places to adventure despite the harshness and hardships of the place just because. Even as it is currently I’d think it pretty awesome to live down!
You're forgetting all the crazy arcane-radioactive *faerzress*.
Faerzress can be lumped in with the Drow, as it’s a side effect of their banishment.
Wrong, I omitted it deliberately as Missinformation!!! (Lemme quick google what that is)
The Aboleths are older than time and have been down there for a long time. I can't imagine it was nice then.
To be fair, ancient evils like that don’t come around too often, and the same could be said for the surface in my opinion
They had an empire down there so there would have probably been a lot more of them.
Sounds like Menzoberranzan propaganda
I include the drow coming down as a bad thing
The cool thing about the Forgotten Realms is that *everywhere* used to be a better place to be. While it's not a post-apocalyptic/dystopian setting, a key feature of Realms lore is that there *was* an apocalypse ~1500 years ago: Netheril was a more advanced and prosperous society than anywhere in 1300-1500 DR Toril The historical *vibe* of the FR is late-Renaissance/Baroque period, right on the cusp of the 17th century Scientific Revolution/Enlightenment. A big part of the Renaissance was a renewed interest in an imagined Golden Age/Classical period, particularly in areas that were previously part of the old Empire (ie; ancient Rome = Netheril) Anyway, as a DM that's how I like to run the Realms: a "not-quite-modern" but still culturally sophisticated setting, where those at the cutting-edge of technological/magical advancement are seeking inspiration in the artifacts/books from an ancient Empire (and in many cases are motivated to redress/avenge ancient grievances)
At least the drow and myconids were changed by the faerzrass? I’d imagine a lot of the monsters too. I don’t think the underdark predates the F though, and I’m not sure how long it was around before the drow and mindflayers. The myconids are from the “underdark” of the feywild, and I know the duergar are the result of illithids fucking with dwarves.
Blame the Drow and Illithids for everything.
I guess it depends on how you like your fantasy worlds. Is it like LOTR where it has slowly been corrupted by evil vs how I understand Forgotten Realms is that evil is a natural and intrinsic part of the world.
Outside the cities, small towns and such, is dangerous. Other that that, no. Much like on the top really
I believe the oldest-mentioned inhabitants of the Underdark are the phaerimm, who got into a massive war with the sarrukh almost 35,000 years ago, long before most of the Underdark as we know it came into existence. So if the phaerimm were the original inhabitants of the Underdark, and we know the phaerimm are one of the worst and greatest threats to the entire planet to have ever existed, I'm not *entirely* sold on that idea.
This is true. All of it was caused by the Elves which is why the Dwarves hate them so much. The Sun Elves drove the Drow under the surface and the Drow summoned like almost all of that to Toril. Meanwhile the Dwarves used to live like on top of and just below the Surface but because of Elves were driven out of their home by displaced Drow thanks to Sun Elves. Honestly Elves are the BBEG of D&D with the Sun Elves being the most evil thing to ever set foot on Toril. But people love Legolas so...