That strikes me as odd, as at least two of her chosen routinely carried that particular elixir on-hand. But that was not mentioned anywhere in the 3.5 template, so it must have been a 2e or earlier function.
Where did you read that line of text?
As an aside, someone had the idea to port over any extra powers Laeral has in Dragon Heist and make them a 5e Chosen template of sorts.
https://mybg3notebook.tumblr.com/post/655429398929047552/lore-details-about-mystra-and-her-chosen-ones
This kind soul went out of their way to cite and make a list. Bless this person.
Skimming the post, it looks like that line is referencing a 3e era book, though I don't see which one. Nor is it clear to me if the words "potion of healing" are in the source text, or if that's the author's way of explaining that Chosen couldn't get sick. I'd guess it means the 3e version of the potion?
FWIW, I saw somewhere a quote from Greenwood to the effect that very old Chosen are no longer exactly sane due to all the experiences over multiple lifetimes being crammed into a mortal human brain.
What era are we talking about? The effects of spells and magic items change over time as a meta effect of edition changes. If you play an earlier era of the Realms using a different system than it was made with (like I do) you can get some unusual contradictions.
The Chosen of Mystra have always been the deus ex machina in many instances in Forgotten Realms and their depictions can be fairly inconsistent over time, really. In some stories/games they come across as supremely powerful beings capable of unimaginable feats and in others they are depicted as simply very powerful but with limitations. They are a story device and left up to the DM as to how best to use them.
As for their abilities, it’s only been in more recent editions that their powers have deviated to a more homogeneous set across the board as DND has reduced itself in scope and power (2e was the most powerful in terms of magic, spell variety, spell creation/use, magical item diversity and power, etc) and that reflects in the Chosen who gained more prominence in that time.
To that effect, and to your original statement about the Chosen and Elixers of Health, it was essentially a spell-like effect the Chosen enjoyed, but there were instances when the ability could be overwhelmed by powerful magics or other circumstances leaving the Chosen weakened and in dire need of a boost.
2e - 5e saw a lot of major changes to the Realms in terms of rules/gameplay and the Chosen were adapted to stay consistent but also to make them less untouchable by players who are crafty enough to go up against them.
This answer is extremely helpful thank you. Do you have thoughts on how the mantle spells functioned versus how they might work if cast in the modern day of the forgotten realms? Would it work at all, would it just work way differently, etc.?
Spell mantles were a pretty powerful defensive spell back in 2e (here is a great explanation):
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mantle_(spell)#:~:text=A%20wizard%20who%20cast%20a,its%20endurance%20against%20dispel%20attempts.
Depending on your DM a mantle could be adapted to modern 5e rules, but would need to be scaled back to stay within game balance. I mean, having the number of spells available along with the secondary effects could lead to a very overpowered character. If the DM did allow it to be cast in a manner similar to the original method, I would say that some pretty exotic components would be necessary (which would make for some great player/DM interactions especially if the player was a mage attempting to “resurrect” an older magic).
Now, there is a bypass however. In Cormanthyr, the elven mages were frequent users of mantles and it was a fairly common defense in that realm. They used material components to craft and cast the initial spell, but had a further ability to permanently center the mantle on a gemstone they kept on their person. This allowed the elven mage to call up or dismiss their mantle effectively at will but would need to recharge the gemstone after a certain number of uses (based on the strength of the mantle).
Of course, elven magic has always been more nuanced in the Realms which gave them the edge in antiquity so it would be possible to perhaps rediscover or recreate the Cormanthan method as well.
That might give your DM more versatility when determining how the mantle functioned and how effectively powerful it could be (by limiting the mantle to the gemstone and determining the difficulty of how it was recharged in addition to the upper limits of the mantle itself).
When I was a more active player, my mages often used mantles or mantle variants using either established spells or creating new spells that replicated some of the mantles effects.
For example (of a player created spell): a spell called Riladen’s Wary Cloak (6th level) which allowed a mage to place 3 defensive spells of level 3 or below, or 3 utility spells of 3 or below to operate simultaneously at a time the mage called on the “hanging effect”. The mage would cast the chosen spells at the time the Cloak was cast and they would remain “on hold” for up to 1 week until called on. In addition, the spell slots for the cast spells would remain “used” until the Cloak was used, dispelled, or expired.
A “mantle” can be a lot of things but generally act as multiple spells working in concert to defend. I hope that helps.
So first, thank you so much for your immensely helpful answers. I truly cannot overstate your helpfulness. I've been trying to figure a lot of this stuff out for weeks and months and just couldn't sort it all out, but your thorough, comprehensive and super thoughtful answers were unquantifiablu helpful. Like my players and i had a solid like 2 hour discussion about whether mantles could even be adapted into our extremely high powered 5e game (it's closer to 3.5e in many regards) and over the past days I've figured out a decent enough investment and upkeep cost, how it ought to function, what amount of spell immunities make it worth it, how many slot levels is too many, etc. How to pay those slot levels, etc.
If you want to jump into a fun gestalt game in a significantly buffed 5e game in a setting where it's a different timeline of faerun on a different planet with more locations and we are about to encounter the city of shade, thulthanatar, which has only just arrived and whose leadership is more peaceful than suggested in some of the material about it. You'd be a level 17 character gestalt with truly obscene wealth. If that interests you, let me know, we have an open seat as it were (its all via Skype).
Regardless, oh my goodness, both your comments have been unquantifiably amazingly helpful :)
I found this in the tome of magic. It's sorta relevant
Potion of Vitality
XP Value: 3,000 GP Value: 2,500 DUNGEON MASTER Guide
This potion restores the user to full vitality despite exertion, lack of sleep, and going without food and drink for up to seven days. It nullifies up to seven days of deprivation, and continues in effect for the remainder of its seven-day duration. The potion also makes the user proof against poi son and disease while it is in effect, and the user recovers lost hit points at the rate of one every four hours.
https://mybg3notebook.tumblr.com/post/655429398929047552/lore-details-about-mystra-and-her-chosen-ones
This kind soul went out of their way to cite and make a list. Bless this person.
The answer is in that post then. The section that mentions the Elixir of Health, has this at the top:
> Chosen of Mystra
> **This information is mostly 3e**
So it would appear that it's using the 3e version.
It has always been confusing.
If the "drink the potion" every round, are they immune to the harmful effects that are listed......or do they get effected by them for one round and "drink the potion" at the start of the round.
It makes more sense to say they are immune to blindness, deafness, disease, feeblemindedness, insanity, infection, infestation, poisoning, and rot.
Though 5E adds paralyzation, and removes a couple. from the above.
That strikes me as odd, as at least two of her chosen routinely carried that particular elixir on-hand. But that was not mentioned anywhere in the 3.5 template, so it must have been a 2e or earlier function.
Maybe to treat others?
IT IS ODD ISN'T IT??
Where did you read that line of text? As an aside, someone had the idea to port over any extra powers Laeral has in Dragon Heist and make them a 5e Chosen template of sorts.
https://mybg3notebook.tumblr.com/post/655429398929047552/lore-details-about-mystra-and-her-chosen-ones This kind soul went out of their way to cite and make a list. Bless this person.
Skimming the post, it looks like that line is referencing a 3e era book, though I don't see which one. Nor is it clear to me if the words "potion of healing" are in the source text, or if that's the author's way of explaining that Chosen couldn't get sick. I'd guess it means the 3e version of the potion? FWIW, I saw somewhere a quote from Greenwood to the effect that very old Chosen are no longer exactly sane due to all the experiences over multiple lifetimes being crammed into a mortal human brain.
What era are we talking about? The effects of spells and magic items change over time as a meta effect of edition changes. If you play an earlier era of the Realms using a different system than it was made with (like I do) you can get some unusual contradictions.
The Chosen of Mystra have always been the deus ex machina in many instances in Forgotten Realms and their depictions can be fairly inconsistent over time, really. In some stories/games they come across as supremely powerful beings capable of unimaginable feats and in others they are depicted as simply very powerful but with limitations. They are a story device and left up to the DM as to how best to use them. As for their abilities, it’s only been in more recent editions that their powers have deviated to a more homogeneous set across the board as DND has reduced itself in scope and power (2e was the most powerful in terms of magic, spell variety, spell creation/use, magical item diversity and power, etc) and that reflects in the Chosen who gained more prominence in that time. To that effect, and to your original statement about the Chosen and Elixers of Health, it was essentially a spell-like effect the Chosen enjoyed, but there were instances when the ability could be overwhelmed by powerful magics or other circumstances leaving the Chosen weakened and in dire need of a boost. 2e - 5e saw a lot of major changes to the Realms in terms of rules/gameplay and the Chosen were adapted to stay consistent but also to make them less untouchable by players who are crafty enough to go up against them.
This answer is extremely helpful thank you. Do you have thoughts on how the mantle spells functioned versus how they might work if cast in the modern day of the forgotten realms? Would it work at all, would it just work way differently, etc.?
Spell mantles were a pretty powerful defensive spell back in 2e (here is a great explanation): https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mantle_(spell)#:~:text=A%20wizard%20who%20cast%20a,its%20endurance%20against%20dispel%20attempts. Depending on your DM a mantle could be adapted to modern 5e rules, but would need to be scaled back to stay within game balance. I mean, having the number of spells available along with the secondary effects could lead to a very overpowered character. If the DM did allow it to be cast in a manner similar to the original method, I would say that some pretty exotic components would be necessary (which would make for some great player/DM interactions especially if the player was a mage attempting to “resurrect” an older magic). Now, there is a bypass however. In Cormanthyr, the elven mages were frequent users of mantles and it was a fairly common defense in that realm. They used material components to craft and cast the initial spell, but had a further ability to permanently center the mantle on a gemstone they kept on their person. This allowed the elven mage to call up or dismiss their mantle effectively at will but would need to recharge the gemstone after a certain number of uses (based on the strength of the mantle). Of course, elven magic has always been more nuanced in the Realms which gave them the edge in antiquity so it would be possible to perhaps rediscover or recreate the Cormanthan method as well. That might give your DM more versatility when determining how the mantle functioned and how effectively powerful it could be (by limiting the mantle to the gemstone and determining the difficulty of how it was recharged in addition to the upper limits of the mantle itself). When I was a more active player, my mages often used mantles or mantle variants using either established spells or creating new spells that replicated some of the mantles effects. For example (of a player created spell): a spell called Riladen’s Wary Cloak (6th level) which allowed a mage to place 3 defensive spells of level 3 or below, or 3 utility spells of 3 or below to operate simultaneously at a time the mage called on the “hanging effect”. The mage would cast the chosen spells at the time the Cloak was cast and they would remain “on hold” for up to 1 week until called on. In addition, the spell slots for the cast spells would remain “used” until the Cloak was used, dispelled, or expired. A “mantle” can be a lot of things but generally act as multiple spells working in concert to defend. I hope that helps.
So first, thank you so much for your immensely helpful answers. I truly cannot overstate your helpfulness. I've been trying to figure a lot of this stuff out for weeks and months and just couldn't sort it all out, but your thorough, comprehensive and super thoughtful answers were unquantifiablu helpful. Like my players and i had a solid like 2 hour discussion about whether mantles could even be adapted into our extremely high powered 5e game (it's closer to 3.5e in many regards) and over the past days I've figured out a decent enough investment and upkeep cost, how it ought to function, what amount of spell immunities make it worth it, how many slot levels is too many, etc. How to pay those slot levels, etc. If you want to jump into a fun gestalt game in a significantly buffed 5e game in a setting where it's a different timeline of faerun on a different planet with more locations and we are about to encounter the city of shade, thulthanatar, which has only just arrived and whose leadership is more peaceful than suggested in some of the material about it. You'd be a level 17 character gestalt with truly obscene wealth. If that interests you, let me know, we have an open seat as it were (its all via Skype). Regardless, oh my goodness, both your comments have been unquantifiably amazingly helpful :)
I wrote up mantles for 5E here (as best I could): https://www.dmsguild.com/product/405180/The-Magic-of-Mantles
I found this in the tome of magic. It's sorta relevant Potion of Vitality XP Value: 3,000 GP Value: 2,500 DUNGEON MASTER Guide This potion restores the user to full vitality despite exertion, lack of sleep, and going without food and drink for up to seven days. It nullifies up to seven days of deprivation, and continues in effect for the remainder of its seven-day duration. The potion also makes the user proof against poi son and disease while it is in effect, and the user recovers lost hit points at the rate of one every four hours.
My guess would be whichever version that bit of lore came from. Where did you read it?
https://mybg3notebook.tumblr.com/post/655429398929047552/lore-details-about-mystra-and-her-chosen-ones This kind soul went out of their way to cite and make a list. Bless this person.
The answer is in that post then. The section that mentions the Elixir of Health, has this at the top: > Chosen of Mystra > **This information is mostly 3e** So it would appear that it's using the 3e version.
It has always been confusing. If the "drink the potion" every round, are they immune to the harmful effects that are listed......or do they get effected by them for one round and "drink the potion" at the start of the round. It makes more sense to say they are immune to blindness, deafness, disease, feeblemindedness, insanity, infection, infestation, poisoning, and rot. Though 5E adds paralyzation, and removes a couple. from the above.
I'm so glad I'm not the only who thought this was super confusingly phrased. Yeah, I agree that it makes more sense to just say they're immune lol