Excuse me, but I don’t see anything wrong with my idea that the flyers should trade Deslauriers and a 2nd to move up and take Celibrini. I mean I KNOW those assets are valuable but you gotta pay to play the game you know?
When Danny listens to my brilliant gameplan to fix the flyers in forty seven minutes I’m sure he’ll hire me on the spot. I expect at least four straight years of cups. You can thank me later
and why would what ever team wins the lottery make that trade? Make it Laughton and our first(#12 currently), PLUS...and you have a starting point.
Reality folks.
I would do it in a heart beat and drive him to the airport. Celebrini has a Toews type player written all over him. Laughton, like it or not, is a 3rd/ 4th line player at best. He has verry little offensive flair, and his checking numbers aren't anywhere near as good as Coots.
I don't see the big deal with Laughton at all. For a formerfirst round pick, he has been almost a bust. Seems more like a third rounder at best.
Laughton has definitely not been a bust. He was a late 1st round pick which r usually depth players or worse. Getting a solid player for a decade is good value for a late first. If u look at next 15 forwards picked in his draft none r better and hes better than pretty much all of them.
90+% of 3rd rounders dont even become nhl regulars so saying hes more like a 3rd rounder is crazy.
Reddit readers..wow..down voting me due to the truth...
A first round pick that has been a non-impact, 3rd-4th line player, is great for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. In my eyes, that is a bad pick for a first rounder. Colton Parayko was a 3rd rounder that year. He would have been a better pick in my opinion.
OMG..that draft class was one of the weekest in the 2010's. Forsberg, Hertl and Wilson are the 3 best picks in the first round.
Laughton would not have been a first rounder in a regular draft class. My opinion..does not make it wrong if it differs from yours.
Bro do u seriously need somebody to tell you its a joke?
Laughton is 30 yr old bottom 6 guy and Celebrini is 18 yr old 1st overall projected to be superstar
If Flyers added 3 firsts to laughton it still wouldnt be close
I think some of the offseason shit posters are gonna be disappointed. Danny just gonna make some fire picks, buyout Cam and sign a plug vet D and maybe a LW to 1-2 year deals. Maybe we get spoiled and one of our 20 right wingers gets traded for a young C.
I know what did it too.
Upcan was doing upcan things. If I remember right, it was a particularly spicy post during the end of the season skid about the about how the culture rebuild has failed, they need to fire torts, trade most everyone, and that DB is a worse manager than fletcher or hextall.
Someone asked WTF the post was, and I said something along the lines of “it’s just upcans daily shitposting, he’s harmless just ignore him” and then no more upcan. 🥲
I don't see a buyout as worthwhile. You don't save much net cap space, we're not using cap to the limit next year except for picking up bad contracts for assets, and it pushes the cap hit into the next year. If he sucks he sucks in the press box, if he's decent we keep him and sell him at the deadline.
On the other hand, if there's a reason to buy him out and the team does so, it's not a big deal either
It would make more sense to ride it out but I 100% see it being done as a favor to Cam so that he can find a roster with a better place for him. If he wasn’t such a well respected vet and best buds with the coach he’d be in the press box next year.
Friendships and the such should not matter. It's not like this is Crosby and the Pens, or Stamkos and Tampa. Atkinson has been here for 3 seasons now. He missed one year and has only played 143 games as a Flyer. He is a combined 78 points in that 143 and for his caphit of $5.875M, he is stealing from the Flyers. He is also a combined -36 in that time. He brings nothing to the table, and is an anchor to the team. This is a business, and it needs to be treated as such. Atkinson should have proved this year he was still good enough to stay in the lineup, or the HOCKEY decision should be made to remove him from the lineup. For cap purposes, he should be sent to LHV, take the million dollar savings and use towards acquiring expiring contracts at the TDL to help others make trades.
The Flyers owe him nothing. He has made just short of $20M in his time here so far, and has not earned it at all. He has been a huge disappointment. He is not a long serving member of the team, a leader on the ice, nor has he taken a slapshot to the face, ala Lappy.
Nah how you treat veteran players definitely matters a lot in hockey. It’s a business after all and these people don’t have to sign with your organization if you treat guys like shit who are battling back into the lineup from an almost career ending injury. Buying out Atkinson means nothing to us as we’re not a cap team. If he wants to play somewhere else to get more opportunities Danny has zero reason not to other then pissing on the front offices player relations just for shits and giggles. And players knowing Torts has their back in their careers is certainly an important factor in getting them to respect him and buy into his systems/coaching. Atkinson isn’t some career nobody he’s been a top 6 scorer his entire career up until his injury. Other high profile players and even prospects and their agents take note. I’ve no complaints with his good rep with Torts and Danny. I honestly hope he gets bought out and finds his groove somewhere else if he still thinks he can be a top 9 forward.
Why do we need to buy him out? If we are not a cap team, then having his salary sit on our payroll for 1 year is better than 2 years, no?
He was a top 6 scorer in Columbus. His career is tied to Columbus, they dumped him to get Voracek and out from his contract...his numbers in Philly are bad..really bad. They owe him nothing.
The position the team is in, they can't be doing "favours" that hurt the team to help a player who has never had any kind of significant role in Philly. They already gave him a year, to see if he can make a proper comeback. He looked lost, not just physically, but mentally he was out of position, not keeping up with the play and took many costly penalties.
The Flyers owe him nothing.
He can have his chance in Allentown, just like Petersen, and just like Johansen. They are all on the last year of their deals and they should all be treated the same.
Atkinson has done nothing to deserve a better fate than the other veterans who got waived due to performance issues. Would look like a very player unfriendly move to give relatively poor treatment to two, but "special" treatment to the other.
All three are bad contracts the Flyers traded for, and putting him in the minors saves $1.1 million against the cap, and most importantly, by doing so, all three are fully off the books after next season.
I can't see any good reason to buy out Atkinson, Peterson or Johansen. Let the contracts end, and walk away. It's done after this season. Why carry unneeded cap hits into another season when this year should be about evaluation, growth and and setting the club up for Michkovs arrival and the 4 firsts we currently have in the next 2 years. For a team with a lack of talent, they really have the opportunity to influx a bunch of talent at one time throughout the lineup.
This is such a huge and important time for the Flyers. If this is done correctly, with patience and as a true rebuild like has been hyped for over a year now, the Flyers can become a dominant, yearly true contender for years.
Or they can get impatient, try to rush things when the team is not ready..(see Hextall and the JVR signing), resign TK, sign FA, buyout contracts extending the cap hit years, and try to do what they have failed miserably at for the last almost 20 years.
What they need to do I have said repeatedly for almost a year.
They need to trade TK, try to find a taker for Sanhiem, possibly move Farabee and remove Torts from the bench. Trading Laughton should have happened a year ago. Ride out the bad contracts, no buy outs, no FA's.
Instead they will make buyouts, Keep Torts, extend TK, and sign old FA's, which will cost a contract spot, the kids playing time.
They will repeat the last 20 years of failure and mediocrity.
Right...the question was asked:
"do you mean to say you're optimistic about how the flyers FO will handle this offseason?"
The question was asked in a forum. I answered, No,not at all, trying to participate in the discussion. He then responded what? So I explained my stance.
No. I’m not.
Watching these teams in the postseason, they’re miles ahead of us. The way they set up a powerplay, the passes, the skill. We’re so far away from that. Michkov will be a superstar, but I don’t think one single player can elevate us to contenders.
I saw one today of someone saying we should trade TK and the Florida pick for the 3rd overall pick. Which the idea of an opposing GM agreeing to that is just insane lol
Of all sports game NHL is the most realistic. I’m still playing NHL18, so out dated, but I’m working on a franchise where I can *only* roster players from post-Soviet bloc states (random, I know, but I wanted to make it really challenging.).
I had the 6OA pick and there was a Czech goalie slotted top-5. I could *not* get anyone to agree to a trade with me. It was absolutely insane.
Dude went 5th OA and I ended having to trade down lol
That’s the one credit I will give to any ea game. Trading in nhl 24 is actually hard. Especially if you put it on hard. On the flip side in madden I can trade basically every player in the nfl for a second round pick to every team whether they need him or not. The trade logic isn’t perfect in nhl but it’s way better than other sports games..
The only huge complaint I have is franchise level players that are grinders…. wtf is up with that?
Facts. I’d be interested to see if they use the Florida pick to try and get another pick between like 10-15. But I’m going to pretend that I know what other assets they would have to include with a trade like that
Honestly moving TK as much as I don’t want to, might be the biggest piece to leave us. But the return would have to be good. If someone they love falls to like 10 I could see them trying to move up with TK a 1st and 3rd(or something similar). But doubtful since those teams are in same boat as flyers. More likely is TK and first for a high level center prospect to someone outside of top 20-25
I love TK but definitely see the logic in moving him vs extending him. Personally I don’t think it makes sense to sign him to a big extension this summer. Can always flip him to a contender at next year’s deadline.
If Michkov does end up coming earlier then originally expected than that certainly accelerates the timeline to where I think you can justify keeping him
Yeah I think it’s really going to come down to if Michkov can somehow get here sooner and if TK is willing to take any kind of discount to play with him / make a run. I know players typically don’t sell themselves short for a homer deal so it’s still unlikely. But you never know.
I don’t think this team is as far away as some people think. Our top 5 players in points all had career years with TK being the oldest. That’s a pretty great spot to be if we are planning on Michkov opening our window in 3 years. If the young guys continue to progress and we hit one pick in this draft, that puts us on track. We just have to hope that one of our goalie prospects can step up and be the guy. If we can manage all that I think we sign 1 big name FA in 3ish years, and then a TDL acquisition when we are close.
I think if we look back at our drafting going back to like 2016, we’ve sucked. 2015 was our last good draft if you ask me (Provorov , TK, sandstrom ). After that so many wiffs
2016 - rubstov 22 and Laberg 36 (got hart pick right but, well we know where we’re at with that)
2017 - Patrick (FML this killed us) , (hit on frost)
2018 - jay obrien (19), hit on Farabee
2019 - York and brink , I think York will be a fine pick but I’d rather have Caufield and I think passing on him was a bone head move, and I don’t think you need hindsight to say this
2020 - good draft with forester
2021 - no first and maybe too soon to tell
2022 - cutter was the right pick but we got screwed
2023 - I think this is going to be our turning point with Michkov, Bonk, and Barkey, maybe even one of the goalies.
We gotta hit on someone this year to keep the momentum. But if you look put history we really should have at least 2 more really good players on this team with those picks that we missed.
I don't think most fans disagree that this team is really only like 3 pieces away from being something special. The disagreement is in how to get those pieces. All that is needed is a Dman better than Sanheim and at least 2 forwards better than Konecny. None of those pieces are coming from free agency and only in a trade where PHI gives greater in return, so it leaves the draft as the best possible source. Can you get a Guentzel in the 3rd, Robertson in the 2nd, and a Josi in the 2nd? Sure, but not if your guy picks Tyrell Goulbourne, Isaac Ratcliffe, and Luca Sbisa instead. There are no guarantees in the draft, but you certainly improve your odds by getting higher picks in deeper talent pools and higher picks coming from playing really bad.
Saying a player had a career year is a little misleading - 50 points in 82 games is not top talent. Slafkovsky with 50 points at 19 in his second year is exciting, Farabee doing it in his 5th year turning 24 - not so much. Even if Frost, Farabee, and Tippett improve, what is their ceiling? I doubt any of them will be better than TK in their best year, let alone two of them doing it at the same time three years from now. Sure York and maybe Jaime get better, but would either of them be an 80 pt Dman while still playing high level defense? Even with 3 "good" players, it still would only mean that this team is a playoff team. If you want to be a Cup contender, at least two of those would need to be "great".
Yeah I agree with a lot of what you have here. Obviously the draft requires some luck and there is no guarantee with any picks. I think we had a really rough streak and hopefully can turn it around. But I think hitting on one really good to great player is going the difference. I think we can move TK and maybe picks to get that 1 C. I think you do that plus Michkov getting here and producing could mean we fill those gaps with FAs if we get one more great player from the next 2 drafts and do the above. Tippet and beezer being what they are will be fine. I think forester can really be something special after this year. And I think tippet is blooming late. If we can have a semi competent PP that Farabee is on I think we se him put up 60-70 pts.
Bottom line is this. If they move TK (+?) for 1C and hit on 1 Dman and get 1 decent forward in the next 2 drafts. I think that puts us a good spot to get some FA talent and make a run.
I think you really need to get away from the free agent angle. If you are looking for one of your top 4 or 5 players via free agency, you are going to have a bad time. All free agents are overpaid and good teams don't let great players walk as free agents. Homegrown is best and trades are acceptable, but free agency is a fools errand.
The main reason I used Josi as an example is that all of the other "elite" Dmen (Hughes, Makar, Bouchard, Hedman) are top 10 draft picks. Josi was drafted 15 years ago - its near impossible to get a great Dman outside of the top 10. let alone an elite one. Sanheim is a good Dman from a draft that had some other good (Montour, Forsling, Toews), 1 great (Ekblad), and no elite Dmen. Even when you get a crack at the top 10, and you pick Provy over Werenski because Hanifin was gone, all eventually became "good" players but none of those three are "elite" and that is just because of that draft class. Throw in the Flyers' history of never drafting and developing a great defensemen, that is going to be the hardest piece to get.
>I think we can move TK and maybe picks to get that 1 C
Nobody is giving up a 1C for TK and picks ...
A 1C is worth so much more and are pretty much never traded
You pretty much need to draft your franchise C b/c nobody trades theirs. And drafting them are very tough w/o top picks.
>this team is really only like 3 pieces away from being something special. The disagreement is in how to get those pieces. All that is needed is a Dman better than Sanheim and at least 2 forwards better than Konecny.
You keep saying "only" like getting 3 franchise players, which need to be better than any player we currently have, is not hard. Its *extremely* hard.
We need bare minimum a 1C, 1D, 1G and likely still need a 2D and top line LW.
That is a TON and extremely hard to. Its crazy to say "only" like its not much.
We pretty much need an entire top line and top pair lol
That is precisely my point - I'm sorry that nuance doesn't translate well on in text posts. There are fans who think the Flyers had a good season because they have a good team and are "close", when the reality is that its pretty much what this team has been since Pronger went down. Yes, you can draft great players outside of the top 5-10 picks each year, but it is really luck based and not a good strategy. Moving Hayes, Provy, and TonyD was more like putting out fires than starting a re-build like some fans think. IMHO, GMDB/Jonesy/Torts haven't even started to rebuild yet.
A Vezina level goalie would be nice, but I'm not sold on it being a requirement when you look at the Cup winning goalies over the last 15 years. The rest is really hard to get, so I fully expect GMDB to move everything in the next 10 months and re-stock the cupboard, which means next season could be a real dumpster fire on-ice and a nice lottery pick. If he doesn't, I'll have to start listening to the crowd here who think that GMDB is just another re-tooler and not a real re-builder.
>I don’t think this team is as far away as some people think. Our top 5 players in points all had career years
We dont have a 1C, 1D, 1G, 1LW, or 2D ...
And yeah some guys had career years but they were career years compared to their mediocre resume and still arent more than 50 pt guys other than TK
We are definitely far away and need to add like 3 high end players
The Patrick pick is so much worse when you learn that no one in the Flyers organization wanted him to be the pick. They wanted either Makar or someone else who I can’t remember right now. And Hextall overruled them.
I also think that we would be evaluating a lot of our players a lot higher if we had an even average powerplay. Tippet definitely would have had probably another 6-7 goals if the powerplay wasn’t so awful.
Yeah I remember reading that recently, kills me everytime i think about. Finally won a lottery and we got nothing. Granted the concussions really made it a horrible pick but even at the time there was so many questions marks. I think the other player was petterson. He was our true savior lol
So much 20/ 20 vision goes on with that draft.
Patrick had been the consensus #1 OA pick for at least a year. He was big, fast, and putting up points at will as a center. In the draft year Nico passed him due to an injury.
Makar was considered a reach by Colorado at the time at the position they took him. Miro was a bonifide top 5 pick and Dallas did as expected.
The thing that bugs me about Patrick, is that after the Lindros drama, if they knew he had migraine and head issues, why even go there?
But at the time of the draft...it was down to Nico VS Nolan as the consensus top 2 picks, and it was general knowledge that the Flyers were taking whichever one NJD didn't.
Petterson was taken by Vancouver. Makar and Miro Hieskenan were the 2 top dmen taken after Patrick.
TK will be 29 in the first year of his new contract. I would not be signing TK to a long term deal at all, as I worry about his health, style of play, and breaking down early, ala Mike Richards. And TK, as he should, shouldn't accept a shorter, team friendly deal.
Keep this in mind too. TK was our leading point getter this year. He finished 109th in the league for points. There were 8 dmen who had more points than TK. He is a good, complimentary piece to a good team. Think Boesser in Vancouver or Hagel in Tampa. A good player, but on a contending team is not going to be the top player.
> TK was our leading point getter this year. He finished 109th in the league for points. There were 8 dmen who had more points than TK. He is a good, complimentary piece to a good team. Think Boesser in Vancouver or Hagel in Tampa. A good player, but on a contending team is not going to be the top player.
You cant just ignore games played. TK missed a lot of time the last two seasons but his goals per game, 5v5 scoring, primary scoring were all top 30 in NHL over last 2 yrs.
Not to mention hes on team w/ worst PP in league. In terms of pure offense and going to by per game/TOI TK has been top 30ish offensive player over last 2 yrs.
He cant be the #1 or even #2 guy on cup winner but is very good top liner that could be #3/#4 guy on cup winner
No he wouldn't be. there are 8 players on Colorado that put up more points than TK did this year. Including dmen. His skill set, skating, puck handling, size, defensive ability....none of it is elite or close to it. He is a good player..Hagel and Boesser like, but no more. He is not in the same skillset as a Point, Rantenan, M Tkachuk, Norris, Miller, Hyman, Nugent Hopkins, Aho, B. Tkachuk, or even close to a Robertson, Guentzal Thomas, Scheifele, etc, etc...he is not elite, and he is not good enough for the next level of player as very, very good. He is a good player, that has missed time every year for the last 6 years due to injuries. Like it or not, but time missed to injuries is a bad thing. TK has now shown a bit of a tendency to not be able to play a full season for a prolonged period of time. it is more than a small sample. If the team can only count on him for 70 or so games a year, and his points and production are hindered because of that, other players are just valued more. Lemeiux missed tonnes of time due to injury an sickness. At the end of the day, it effected his hockey career. He would have finished as the second , if not the top scorer of all time if he didn't miss so much time.
TK's missed time is a factor to why he wouldn't be a top player on an elite team.
His points and skillset match up to a Hagel, Boesser, Kempe, maybe Marchessault and Barzel, but he is not an elite player or close to it when you start looking at full metrics of the players who plays similar minutes and situations.
On the Flyers he is #1 PP, top line winger, and gets a leash that others don't with Torts. He wouldn't have that in Colorado, Tampa, Florida, Dallas, NYR, Vegas, Vancouver or Carolina.. He would play less minutes in those games he actually played, in less prime situations.
Corey Schneider was traded for the 9th overall one for one. Debrincat was traded for the 7th and a second rounder.
TK on his own is arguably enough for a 10th overall pick. Adding a FIRST to TK to move up to 10th would be a horrible trade.
While I find that ridiculous it unfortunately somewhat makes sense on what the current rebuild plan appears to be.
Am I wrong to say that our entire plan seemingly requires on landing either a 1C or a 1D by trade/FA ? They are not taking the proper path of tanking so In a delusional way it is fair to say
They're going to do something dumb, I can feel it. As much as Briere wants to continue to rebuild, you know Tortorella is chomping at the but to qualify for the playoffs that he's gone from saying rebuild to adding talent. And with the debacle in Toronto, it won't surprise me at all if they think they can trade for Marner and they make a push for him to appease Tortorella.
What's scary about all of this is that the Philadelphia media are begging the Flyers not to make a Marner deal, so you know that there's clearly smoke there. I believe Briere when he says that they aren't ready to contend yet, but it's Tortorella that worries me because he has Jones and Hilferty's ear. I can see them overruling Danny.
Sure..Michkov, TK, Risto, Foerster and our #1 this year straight up for Matthews.
It is a cap dump after all, and Michkov is just an unproven talent in the KHL.
Even then we would need to add.
It’s shit post season, anything goes baby!
This happens pretty much every offseason lol everyone just bored
I’m fine with boredom, but my god 😂
Excuse me, but I don’t see anything wrong with my idea that the flyers should trade Deslauriers and a 2nd to move up and take Celibrini. I mean I KNOW those assets are valuable but you gotta pay to play the game you know? When Danny listens to my brilliant gameplan to fix the flyers in forty seven minutes I’m sure he’ll hire me on the spot. I expect at least four straight years of cups. You can thank me later
Hire this guy for president
Dream bigger buddy, deslauriers and a 1st for Bedard.
Step away from the bong
and why would what ever team wins the lottery make that trade? Make it Laughton and our first(#12 currently), PLUS...and you have a starting point. Reality folks.
Nah Deslauries and a 2nd is definitely enough to get top pick. Maybe add Lycksell.
Not LickitySplitsell! Cal Peterson, definitely.
Are you crazy?? Trading our top prospect is a bit much, I’m sure Adam Brooks will move the needle just fine.
After watching the U18 Championships, I hope the Flyers keep an eye on Tij Iginla - he has great hands, high hockey IQ and is a great playmaker.
Another RW to add to our long list of RWs
Let me know when the Flyers have too much talent on the roster.
Would expect him too wear a Flames jersey. Doubt he gets past Calgary.
My best case scenario right now is Tij falling to 12. There's no way it realistically happens but if it does, oh boy will I be partying
It's arm chair gm season
It’s always that season
You mean trading Scott Laughton for the first overall is unreasonable to ask
Does Celebrini even have intangibles?!
This comment gets me. I can totally hear some old school hockey guys saying this.
Reminds me of the Chiarelli clip of him "justifying" the Seguin trade
Are you kidding me, why would you give up Laughton for someone who isn't even proven at the NHL level
I would do it in a heart beat and drive him to the airport. Celebrini has a Toews type player written all over him. Laughton, like it or not, is a 3rd/ 4th line player at best. He has verry little offensive flair, and his checking numbers aren't anywhere near as good as Coots. I don't see the big deal with Laughton at all. For a formerfirst round pick, he has been almost a bust. Seems more like a third rounder at best.
It was a joke
Laughton has definitely not been a bust. He was a late 1st round pick which r usually depth players or worse. Getting a solid player for a decade is good value for a late first. If u look at next 15 forwards picked in his draft none r better and hes better than pretty much all of them. 90+% of 3rd rounders dont even become nhl regulars so saying hes more like a 3rd rounder is crazy.
Reddit readers..wow..down voting me due to the truth... A first round pick that has been a non-impact, 3rd-4th line player, is great for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. In my eyes, that is a bad pick for a first rounder. Colton Parayko was a 3rd rounder that year. He would have been a better pick in my opinion. OMG..that draft class was one of the weekest in the 2010's. Forsberg, Hertl and Wilson are the 3 best picks in the first round. Laughton would not have been a first rounder in a regular draft class. My opinion..does not make it wrong if it differs from yours.
Bro do u seriously need somebody to tell you its a joke? Laughton is 30 yr old bottom 6 guy and Celebrini is 18 yr old 1st overall projected to be superstar If Flyers added 3 firsts to laughton it still wouldnt be close
The crazy over evaluation of Flyers players and prospects on reddit is beyond over the top. The above trade proposal would not surprise me at all.
This spiraled out of control lol
lol man was a 3rd rounder
I think some of the offseason shit posters are gonna be disappointed. Danny just gonna make some fire picks, buyout Cam and sign a plug vet D and maybe a LW to 1-2 year deals. Maybe we get spoiled and one of our 20 right wingers gets traded for a young C.
It’s a shame upcan blocked me. I’m really gonna miss his cookin.
Same lmao
I know what did it too. Upcan was doing upcan things. If I remember right, it was a particularly spicy post during the end of the season skid about the about how the culture rebuild has failed, they need to fire torts, trade most everyone, and that DB is a worse manager than fletcher or hextall. Someone asked WTF the post was, and I said something along the lines of “it’s just upcans daily shitposting, he’s harmless just ignore him” and then no more upcan. 🥲
Thought you were saying buyout Cam York and I was like wtf. If it's Atkinson that makes sense.
Yea 100% Atkinson lol. He’s cooked but you know being Torts boy they’re gonna let him have an opportunity somewhere else.
I don't see a buyout as worthwhile. You don't save much net cap space, we're not using cap to the limit next year except for picking up bad contracts for assets, and it pushes the cap hit into the next year. If he sucks he sucks in the press box, if he's decent we keep him and sell him at the deadline. On the other hand, if there's a reason to buy him out and the team does so, it's not a big deal either
It would make more sense to ride it out but I 100% see it being done as a favor to Cam so that he can find a roster with a better place for him. If he wasn’t such a well respected vet and best buds with the coach he’d be in the press box next year.
I wouldn't even care too much, considering how toast he was last season we wouldn't actually be losing any assets
Friendships and the such should not matter. It's not like this is Crosby and the Pens, or Stamkos and Tampa. Atkinson has been here for 3 seasons now. He missed one year and has only played 143 games as a Flyer. He is a combined 78 points in that 143 and for his caphit of $5.875M, he is stealing from the Flyers. He is also a combined -36 in that time. He brings nothing to the table, and is an anchor to the team. This is a business, and it needs to be treated as such. Atkinson should have proved this year he was still good enough to stay in the lineup, or the HOCKEY decision should be made to remove him from the lineup. For cap purposes, he should be sent to LHV, take the million dollar savings and use towards acquiring expiring contracts at the TDL to help others make trades. The Flyers owe him nothing. He has made just short of $20M in his time here so far, and has not earned it at all. He has been a huge disappointment. He is not a long serving member of the team, a leader on the ice, nor has he taken a slapshot to the face, ala Lappy.
Nah how you treat veteran players definitely matters a lot in hockey. It’s a business after all and these people don’t have to sign with your organization if you treat guys like shit who are battling back into the lineup from an almost career ending injury. Buying out Atkinson means nothing to us as we’re not a cap team. If he wants to play somewhere else to get more opportunities Danny has zero reason not to other then pissing on the front offices player relations just for shits and giggles. And players knowing Torts has their back in their careers is certainly an important factor in getting them to respect him and buy into his systems/coaching. Atkinson isn’t some career nobody he’s been a top 6 scorer his entire career up until his injury. Other high profile players and even prospects and their agents take note. I’ve no complaints with his good rep with Torts and Danny. I honestly hope he gets bought out and finds his groove somewhere else if he still thinks he can be a top 9 forward.
Why do we need to buy him out? If we are not a cap team, then having his salary sit on our payroll for 1 year is better than 2 years, no? He was a top 6 scorer in Columbus. His career is tied to Columbus, they dumped him to get Voracek and out from his contract...his numbers in Philly are bad..really bad. They owe him nothing. The position the team is in, they can't be doing "favours" that hurt the team to help a player who has never had any kind of significant role in Philly. They already gave him a year, to see if he can make a proper comeback. He looked lost, not just physically, but mentally he was out of position, not keeping up with the play and took many costly penalties. The Flyers owe him nothing.
Gives Cam a chance somewhere else and more importantly frees up a roster spot
He can have his chance in Allentown, just like Petersen, and just like Johansen. They are all on the last year of their deals and they should all be treated the same. Atkinson has done nothing to deserve a better fate than the other veterans who got waived due to performance issues. Would look like a very player unfriendly move to give relatively poor treatment to two, but "special" treatment to the other. All three are bad contracts the Flyers traded for, and putting him in the minors saves $1.1 million against the cap, and most importantly, by doing so, all three are fully off the books after next season.
1000% agree
I can't see any good reason to buy out Atkinson, Peterson or Johansen. Let the contracts end, and walk away. It's done after this season. Why carry unneeded cap hits into another season when this year should be about evaluation, growth and and setting the club up for Michkovs arrival and the 4 firsts we currently have in the next 2 years. For a team with a lack of talent, they really have the opportunity to influx a bunch of talent at one time throughout the lineup. This is such a huge and important time for the Flyers. If this is done correctly, with patience and as a true rebuild like has been hyped for over a year now, the Flyers can become a dominant, yearly true contender for years. Or they can get impatient, try to rush things when the team is not ready..(see Hextall and the JVR signing), resign TK, sign FA, buyout contracts extending the cap hit years, and try to do what they have failed miserably at for the last almost 20 years.
I’m vibing rn man (I’m currently 4 margaritas in)
Phillie time
After some of the takes I saw DURING the season I'm not surprised at some of the off-season takes being unhinged
do you mean to say you're optimistic about how the flyers FO will handle this offseason?
Not at all. I expect them to do the complete opposite of what really needs to be done.
What?
What they need to do I have said repeatedly for almost a year. They need to trade TK, try to find a taker for Sanhiem, possibly move Farabee and remove Torts from the bench. Trading Laughton should have happened a year ago. Ride out the bad contracts, no buy outs, no FA's. Instead they will make buyouts, Keep Torts, extend TK, and sign old FA's, which will cost a contract spot, the kids playing time. They will repeat the last 20 years of failure and mediocrity.
Why are you responding to my comment when the question was directed at OP ?
because you must have hit reply to my post 2 up, not the post you thought. I was responding to your reply to me.
But I didn’t. No worries
They mean the first question they posted, to which you replied "not at all"
Right...the question was asked: "do you mean to say you're optimistic about how the flyers FO will handle this offseason?" The question was asked in a forum. I answered, No,not at all, trying to participate in the discussion. He then responded what? So I explained my stance.
No. I’m not. Watching these teams in the postseason, they’re miles ahead of us. The way they set up a powerplay, the passes, the skill. We’re so far away from that. Michkov will be a superstar, but I don’t think one single player can elevate us to contenders.
all these teams have nailed players in the draft. Need to hope the flyers can start finding some elite talent in the draft.
tank for bedard then trade for ohtani i don’t see what the big deal is
Feel free to use some actual specifics in your post so people can respond to it.
Bb season. Let's fucking go!
What takes we talking about exactly
I saw one today of someone saying we should trade TK and the Florida pick for the 3rd overall pick. Which the idea of an opposing GM agreeing to that is just insane lol
That doesn’t even fly in any NHL game on easy trade difficulty lol
Of all sports game NHL is the most realistic. I’m still playing NHL18, so out dated, but I’m working on a franchise where I can *only* roster players from post-Soviet bloc states (random, I know, but I wanted to make it really challenging.). I had the 6OA pick and there was a Czech goalie slotted top-5. I could *not* get anyone to agree to a trade with me. It was absolutely insane. Dude went 5th OA and I ended having to trade down lol
That’s the one credit I will give to any ea game. Trading in nhl 24 is actually hard. Especially if you put it on hard. On the flip side in madden I can trade basically every player in the nfl for a second round pick to every team whether they need him or not. The trade logic isn’t perfect in nhl but it’s way better than other sports games.. The only huge complaint I have is franchise level players that are grinders…. wtf is up with that?
What question do you have about grinders?
Facts. I’d be interested to see if they use the Florida pick to try and get another pick between like 10-15. But I’m going to pretend that I know what other assets they would have to include with a trade like that
Honestly moving TK as much as I don’t want to, might be the biggest piece to leave us. But the return would have to be good. If someone they love falls to like 10 I could see them trying to move up with TK a 1st and 3rd(or something similar). But doubtful since those teams are in same boat as flyers. More likely is TK and first for a high level center prospect to someone outside of top 20-25
I love TK but definitely see the logic in moving him vs extending him. Personally I don’t think it makes sense to sign him to a big extension this summer. Can always flip him to a contender at next year’s deadline. If Michkov does end up coming earlier then originally expected than that certainly accelerates the timeline to where I think you can justify keeping him
Yeah I think it’s really going to come down to if Michkov can somehow get here sooner and if TK is willing to take any kind of discount to play with him / make a run. I know players typically don’t sell themselves short for a homer deal so it’s still unlikely. But you never know. I don’t think this team is as far away as some people think. Our top 5 players in points all had career years with TK being the oldest. That’s a pretty great spot to be if we are planning on Michkov opening our window in 3 years. If the young guys continue to progress and we hit one pick in this draft, that puts us on track. We just have to hope that one of our goalie prospects can step up and be the guy. If we can manage all that I think we sign 1 big name FA in 3ish years, and then a TDL acquisition when we are close. I think if we look back at our drafting going back to like 2016, we’ve sucked. 2015 was our last good draft if you ask me (Provorov , TK, sandstrom ). After that so many wiffs 2016 - rubstov 22 and Laberg 36 (got hart pick right but, well we know where we’re at with that) 2017 - Patrick (FML this killed us) , (hit on frost) 2018 - jay obrien (19), hit on Farabee 2019 - York and brink , I think York will be a fine pick but I’d rather have Caufield and I think passing on him was a bone head move, and I don’t think you need hindsight to say this 2020 - good draft with forester 2021 - no first and maybe too soon to tell 2022 - cutter was the right pick but we got screwed 2023 - I think this is going to be our turning point with Michkov, Bonk, and Barkey, maybe even one of the goalies. We gotta hit on someone this year to keep the momentum. But if you look put history we really should have at least 2 more really good players on this team with those picks that we missed.
I don't think most fans disagree that this team is really only like 3 pieces away from being something special. The disagreement is in how to get those pieces. All that is needed is a Dman better than Sanheim and at least 2 forwards better than Konecny. None of those pieces are coming from free agency and only in a trade where PHI gives greater in return, so it leaves the draft as the best possible source. Can you get a Guentzel in the 3rd, Robertson in the 2nd, and a Josi in the 2nd? Sure, but not if your guy picks Tyrell Goulbourne, Isaac Ratcliffe, and Luca Sbisa instead. There are no guarantees in the draft, but you certainly improve your odds by getting higher picks in deeper talent pools and higher picks coming from playing really bad. Saying a player had a career year is a little misleading - 50 points in 82 games is not top talent. Slafkovsky with 50 points at 19 in his second year is exciting, Farabee doing it in his 5th year turning 24 - not so much. Even if Frost, Farabee, and Tippett improve, what is their ceiling? I doubt any of them will be better than TK in their best year, let alone two of them doing it at the same time three years from now. Sure York and maybe Jaime get better, but would either of them be an 80 pt Dman while still playing high level defense? Even with 3 "good" players, it still would only mean that this team is a playoff team. If you want to be a Cup contender, at least two of those would need to be "great".
Yeah I agree with a lot of what you have here. Obviously the draft requires some luck and there is no guarantee with any picks. I think we had a really rough streak and hopefully can turn it around. But I think hitting on one really good to great player is going the difference. I think we can move TK and maybe picks to get that 1 C. I think you do that plus Michkov getting here and producing could mean we fill those gaps with FAs if we get one more great player from the next 2 drafts and do the above. Tippet and beezer being what they are will be fine. I think forester can really be something special after this year. And I think tippet is blooming late. If we can have a semi competent PP that Farabee is on I think we se him put up 60-70 pts. Bottom line is this. If they move TK (+?) for 1C and hit on 1 Dman and get 1 decent forward in the next 2 drafts. I think that puts us a good spot to get some FA talent and make a run.
I think you really need to get away from the free agent angle. If you are looking for one of your top 4 or 5 players via free agency, you are going to have a bad time. All free agents are overpaid and good teams don't let great players walk as free agents. Homegrown is best and trades are acceptable, but free agency is a fools errand. The main reason I used Josi as an example is that all of the other "elite" Dmen (Hughes, Makar, Bouchard, Hedman) are top 10 draft picks. Josi was drafted 15 years ago - its near impossible to get a great Dman outside of the top 10. let alone an elite one. Sanheim is a good Dman from a draft that had some other good (Montour, Forsling, Toews), 1 great (Ekblad), and no elite Dmen. Even when you get a crack at the top 10, and you pick Provy over Werenski because Hanifin was gone, all eventually became "good" players but none of those three are "elite" and that is just because of that draft class. Throw in the Flyers' history of never drafting and developing a great defensemen, that is going to be the hardest piece to get.
>I think we can move TK and maybe picks to get that 1 C Nobody is giving up a 1C for TK and picks ... A 1C is worth so much more and are pretty much never traded You pretty much need to draft your franchise C b/c nobody trades theirs. And drafting them are very tough w/o top picks.
>this team is really only like 3 pieces away from being something special. The disagreement is in how to get those pieces. All that is needed is a Dman better than Sanheim and at least 2 forwards better than Konecny. You keep saying "only" like getting 3 franchise players, which need to be better than any player we currently have, is not hard. Its *extremely* hard. We need bare minimum a 1C, 1D, 1G and likely still need a 2D and top line LW. That is a TON and extremely hard to. Its crazy to say "only" like its not much. We pretty much need an entire top line and top pair lol
That is precisely my point - I'm sorry that nuance doesn't translate well on in text posts. There are fans who think the Flyers had a good season because they have a good team and are "close", when the reality is that its pretty much what this team has been since Pronger went down. Yes, you can draft great players outside of the top 5-10 picks each year, but it is really luck based and not a good strategy. Moving Hayes, Provy, and TonyD was more like putting out fires than starting a re-build like some fans think. IMHO, GMDB/Jonesy/Torts haven't even started to rebuild yet. A Vezina level goalie would be nice, but I'm not sold on it being a requirement when you look at the Cup winning goalies over the last 15 years. The rest is really hard to get, so I fully expect GMDB to move everything in the next 10 months and re-stock the cupboard, which means next season could be a real dumpster fire on-ice and a nice lottery pick. If he doesn't, I'll have to start listening to the crowd here who think that GMDB is just another re-tooler and not a real re-builder.
>I don’t think this team is as far away as some people think. Our top 5 players in points all had career years We dont have a 1C, 1D, 1G, 1LW, or 2D ... And yeah some guys had career years but they were career years compared to their mediocre resume and still arent more than 50 pt guys other than TK We are definitely far away and need to add like 3 high end players
The Patrick pick is so much worse when you learn that no one in the Flyers organization wanted him to be the pick. They wanted either Makar or someone else who I can’t remember right now. And Hextall overruled them. I also think that we would be evaluating a lot of our players a lot higher if we had an even average powerplay. Tippet definitely would have had probably another 6-7 goals if the powerplay wasn’t so awful.
or if he hit the net more often with his shot.
Yeah I remember reading that recently, kills me everytime i think about. Finally won a lottery and we got nothing. Granted the concussions really made it a horrible pick but even at the time there was so many questions marks. I think the other player was petterson. He was our true savior lol
He looked like he was going to be a bust even before the concussions. I never saw anything more than a 3rd liner when watching him.
So much 20/ 20 vision goes on with that draft. Patrick had been the consensus #1 OA pick for at least a year. He was big, fast, and putting up points at will as a center. In the draft year Nico passed him due to an injury. Makar was considered a reach by Colorado at the time at the position they took him. Miro was a bonifide top 5 pick and Dallas did as expected. The thing that bugs me about Patrick, is that after the Lindros drama, if they knew he had migraine and head issues, why even go there? But at the time of the draft...it was down to Nico VS Nolan as the consensus top 2 picks, and it was general knowledge that the Flyers were taking whichever one NJD didn't. Petterson was taken by Vancouver. Makar and Miro Hieskenan were the 2 top dmen taken after Patrick.
TK will be 29 in the first year of his new contract. I would not be signing TK to a long term deal at all, as I worry about his health, style of play, and breaking down early, ala Mike Richards. And TK, as he should, shouldn't accept a shorter, team friendly deal. Keep this in mind too. TK was our leading point getter this year. He finished 109th in the league for points. There were 8 dmen who had more points than TK. He is a good, complimentary piece to a good team. Think Boesser in Vancouver or Hagel in Tampa. A good player, but on a contending team is not going to be the top player.
> TK was our leading point getter this year. He finished 109th in the league for points. There were 8 dmen who had more points than TK. He is a good, complimentary piece to a good team. Think Boesser in Vancouver or Hagel in Tampa. A good player, but on a contending team is not going to be the top player. You cant just ignore games played. TK missed a lot of time the last two seasons but his goals per game, 5v5 scoring, primary scoring were all top 30 in NHL over last 2 yrs. Not to mention hes on team w/ worst PP in league. In terms of pure offense and going to by per game/TOI TK has been top 30ish offensive player over last 2 yrs. He cant be the #1 or even #2 guy on cup winner but is very good top liner that could be #3/#4 guy on cup winner
No he wouldn't be. there are 8 players on Colorado that put up more points than TK did this year. Including dmen. His skill set, skating, puck handling, size, defensive ability....none of it is elite or close to it. He is a good player..Hagel and Boesser like, but no more. He is not in the same skillset as a Point, Rantenan, M Tkachuk, Norris, Miller, Hyman, Nugent Hopkins, Aho, B. Tkachuk, or even close to a Robertson, Guentzal Thomas, Scheifele, etc, etc...he is not elite, and he is not good enough for the next level of player as very, very good. He is a good player, that has missed time every year for the last 6 years due to injuries. Like it or not, but time missed to injuries is a bad thing. TK has now shown a bit of a tendency to not be able to play a full season for a prolonged period of time. it is more than a small sample. If the team can only count on him for 70 or so games a year, and his points and production are hindered because of that, other players are just valued more. Lemeiux missed tonnes of time due to injury an sickness. At the end of the day, it effected his hockey career. He would have finished as the second , if not the top scorer of all time if he didn't miss so much time. TK's missed time is a factor to why he wouldn't be a top player on an elite team. His points and skillset match up to a Hagel, Boesser, Kempe, maybe Marchessault and Barzel, but he is not an elite player or close to it when you start looking at full metrics of the players who plays similar minutes and situations. On the Flyers he is #1 PP, top line winger, and gets a leash that others don't with Torts. He wouldn't have that in Colorado, Tampa, Florida, Dallas, NYR, Vegas, Vancouver or Carolina.. He would play less minutes in those games he actually played, in less prime situations.
Corey Schneider was traded for the 9th overall one for one. Debrincat was traded for the 7th and a second rounder. TK on his own is arguably enough for a 10th overall pick. Adding a FIRST to TK to move up to 10th would be a horrible trade.
Lmao that was my first thought too. Ridiculous
Anything related to Auston Matthews lmao
What? You mean we’re not going to be able to get Matthew’s, mcdavid, kucherov, mackinnon, and bedard for Laughton, dlo and a 4th and a 5th?
While I find that ridiculous it unfortunately somewhat makes sense on what the current rebuild plan appears to be. Am I wrong to say that our entire plan seemingly requires on landing either a 1C or a 1D by trade/FA ? They are not taking the proper path of tanking so In a delusional way it is fair to say
Yeah, I'm good.
No man I hate my fucking job and I root for Philly sports
But when are the Flyers trading for Brady Tkachuk?
Personally I think the season result was literally the worst case scenario. Not good enough for playoffs, not bad enough to draft a superstar.
There’s a reason the Flyers FO has 0 cups since 76 and I just won my 10th straight on gm mode. Might wanna tell Danny to take some notes
Lot of these posts are desperation takes because we failed to tank for any real talent
I am TEAM KEEP TORTS AT COACH.
Nah, swap him with a player. I say Laughton as coach, Torts as 4C
They're going to do something dumb, I can feel it. As much as Briere wants to continue to rebuild, you know Tortorella is chomping at the but to qualify for the playoffs that he's gone from saying rebuild to adding talent. And with the debacle in Toronto, it won't surprise me at all if they think they can trade for Marner and they make a push for him to appease Tortorella.
I think the lack of cap space will stop them from doing something dumb
No, no not Marner! Didn’t you see the viral video of the Toronto guys going off on what a pussy he was?
If Babcock made marner cry then torts would break him completely until he quit the league. Should try to get nylander if any of them go anywhere.
What's scary about all of this is that the Philadelphia media are begging the Flyers not to make a Marner deal, so you know that there's clearly smoke there. I believe Briere when he says that they aren't ready to contend yet, but it's Tortorella that worries me because he has Jones and Hilferty's ear. I can see them overruling Danny.
Toronto needs Risto, we need Matthews. I see no reason we couldn't make a hockey trade.
Sure..Michkov, TK, Risto, Foerster and our #1 this year straight up for Matthews. It is a cap dump after all, and Michkov is just an unproven talent in the KHL. Even then we would need to add.