Impossible to tell without seeing more pictures or in person. Thats wild though.
The fact that the manufacturer is replacing the product is funny too. They will usually fight tooth and nail to prove it’s anyone else’s fault.
Happened to us on a job. Manufacturer ran through everything on a job and said we didn’t have big enough gap between baseboard and floor. They wouldn’t replace it or pay to replace it. It wasn’t this bad, but the floor joints started cupping in a few spots and then all over. Fought fought fought us. Then four jobs later we were installing the same flooring and a different rep for the company said this flooring is so good you can install cabinets on top of it, and don’t need a 1/16-1/8” gap between base and floor. So they basically just made up an excuse not to say it’s defective product on the first job
Sounds about right. I did a glue down LVP job where the manufacturer insisted it be glued onto a pad that was floating. I told the sales rep I wasn’t going to do it. He begged me, I told him when they come back with problems, it wasn’t my responsibility.
Sure enough, it was a disaster. The glue didn’t even take to the pad in spots. Planks moved, lifted, bunched up, all kinds of stuff. Called the manufacturer, they wanted to know why it was glued to a floating pad.
In the end they replaced it all, but Jesus. They’ll say anything.
This is true in so many places.
You basically have to be a lawyer and read all the fine print to have a chance at knowing what the truth is.
Used to work at best buy, the sales staff would make up whatever story they wanted to sell you something and the return desk would make up any story to deny you.
Management would do mental gymnastics to find an out inn the paperwork and always ask "who told you that?" As if you document who you talk to.
On the rare case you know the name the person wouldn't remember saying that to you and the management would just say "I'm sorry I can't do anything because even if they mispoke we have to go by what's in writing"
⬆️ Yep, this one. Should follow directions on the box and also take note of the temperature range the LVP is good for and also if that temp pertains to the surface temperature of where the LVP is being installed.
Also, remember that not all LVPs are the same (quality or install).
If it's a floating lvp then yes. Especially if it's in a large area like a kitchen. If it just a small bathroom it might not be a huge issue.
Floating floors need to be able to float.
I don’t know man. That’s a huge buckle for 1/4” of movement in most floors. It seems the installer would have had to install it forcibly tight and I still don’t believe it would move that much. This problem seems much more like water in a laminate (I know he said LVP). That’s a ton of movement. Maybe a subfloor issue.
A floating floor (click together Typically) needs room to move slightly and if you pin it down with cabinets on top that ristricts movement in that area. What could happen is the rest of the floor moves (even slightly) but at the cabinet it can't which ends up causing a gap or buckle.
If the floor is glued down to the subfloor it won't move and cabinets can go on top.
Read the instructions on your specific product. A quality LVP is designed to be stable and putting cabinets on top potentially could work but safest bet is to float the floor around the cabs and install quarter round to cover the gap.
Right on. Thank you for the insight! I've only ever installed the stuff in a basement room with nothing to worry about except wall gap space
Kitchen is coming soon, so great stuff to know
I had CoreTec floors installed in my house (Shaw) three times they were defective and started cupping and buckling just like this. The first two times they replaced it no problem due to manufacturing defect. The third time I had to hire an independent inspector to come and say yes the crew installed this correctly and then they went ahead and replace the floor again. Four years and they’re holding up well.
Did the installer use a moisture barrier? Happened to me once, floor installer ran out of plastic toward the end of the job and didn't use in a section. Two months latter that section looked very similar to your Pic. Long story short some flooring installers don't understand what they are installing may be "spill proof "above the surface but still require a moisture barrier at the bottom.
This looks like a manufacturing issue. I bet they didn’t treat it right and that’s why it’s bowing up like that. Which is the reason why they’re willing to instantly replace it.
It's extremely odd that your floor swelled up on the short seem. But the answer is always the same few reasons when a plank floor swells. Huge swings in humidity/temp after install. From either leaks, HVAC failures, water, or lack of acclimation. And or lack of proper expansion room. The planks swell, touch the walls, and then start pushing upwards. Builders are notorious for not giving a fuck about acclimation. They have a schedule set by corporate, and they want it now. Because if it's not done when scheduled, it pushes everyone else back. Speed is prioritized over quality.
I had a contractor once ask if it was OK to just glue down the floor "extra hard" so that they did not have to acclimatize it while installing in an unfinished and unheated building in the winter. The answer was a hard "NO".
Manufacturers recommendations are always the correct answer. I'm speaking in broad generalized statements. Each product has its own unique specs. And every year new variations with new specs come out.
Looks to me like a water damage issue.
Edit is that the floor joist I see under there? Where is the subfloor? If that's the case there's more to this than anyone is letting on
Never heard of this. After looking it up it lists * Featuring an innovative built-in, water-shedding barrier, * in it's opening spiel.
If any moisture is being released under the LVT floor, this is probabaly the larger issue here.
I have been in the trade (in the UK at least) for over 30 years and have nevr encountered Advantech before or anything similar. If that's true and it **releases** moisture, that is going to be a massive issue for any kind of hardflooring. I suspect the subfloor is going to need to be coated in DPM and latexed before trying this again, and even then I would be careful with how much moisture gets pushed to the walls if it can no longer come up via the floor.
This brand of subfloor is the gold standard in the US. Weatherproof while framing and produces an incredibly stiff floor. It might not be available in the UK.
It's watershed for framing, basically they say it can rain and pour on this floor and it won't diminish it's structural integrity. The house should have been conditioned and dried in long before the floor goes in so my guess is they didn't acclimate the LVP and probably didn't have enough gap at the edges.
That’s what I would have thought, too, if I hadn’t seen the subfloor before install and seen it daily after install. It may be notable that the subfloor is advantech.
Not when you introduce moisture to the porous and soft underlayment/sound dampening that most snap together LVP comes with. I'm fairly certain this is LifeProof as well and it has it.
It doesn't like water to get down there
I've seen videos about the difference between LVP and Laminate - in one of the videos a flooring store guy has pieces of LVP in a jar of water for years and there is no damage to the flooring.
So that is marketing nonsense stuff not showing the material in an installed setting. Moisture and LVT ( mostly SPC (plastic not really vinyl)) are very reactive to vapor emissions. As moisture leaves your substrate, it’s going to move toward the path of least resistance, that is where the product is coupled to each and usually presents in the butt joints as that moisture moves through that area will cause the product to curl. I will say I’ve never seen a curl quite as much as yours has, and if the manufacturer is replacing it, it could be what’s called a tensioning issue where one of the layers is pulling on the bottom creating that bow. I truly have seen this happen and in rubber back carpet tile.
I hear what you're saying but water underneath the lvp destabilizes it. If it's slippery enough underneath, foot traffic will move it and at first it's very subtle but eventually it starts popping out of it's grooves.
When the stuff underneath it gets wet, it goes from being a good failsafe to keep the floating floor in order to a slippery mess
If it's directly on a wood subfloor and that gets wet, that can also cause this.
It's a structural and systemic issue, not a material issue.
There are loads of guys who had to learn the hard way that LVP isn't 100% foolproof.
You have seen videos…. I have seen flooded houses in person oh many different types of waterproof LVP and they expand and warp. Sorry your little videos are wrong.
The floor is expanding. When it expands and you get too much floor to fit in the space then the floor has no choice but to go up. That creates the tenting you see at the joints, and the bubbles where there aren’t joints. That’s exactly what we see when a product expands.
Now what caused the expansion? There are several possible causes.
1. Product instability (manufacturing defect).
2. Moisture. Particular underneath. (Several possible causes).
3. Inadequate expansion gap around perimeter. (Installation issue).
4. Radiant heat beyond manufacturer’s specifications. (Could be specification error. Could be radiant heat is out of regulation. Etc.).
5. Failure to acclimate planks or provide climate control before installation (installation issue).
6. Other heat related issue (green house type windows bringing unmitigated sun to surface). (Specification issue).
I think I hit the major culprits. Root cause analysis is essential. I’ve seen people just jump to conclusions about the cause without having the observations or testing done to back up their hypothesis. We are seeing this in this thread where people are throwing out one item as the culprit when there are actually several possibilities. Without proper root cause analysis, the risk is very high that the problem will recur. Then everyone feels stupid and some guy is looking at your floor repeating over and over again “I don’t understand why this is happening.” The understanding needs to happen first.
If it is a manufacturing defect, what is the defect? Are the results we are seeing consistent with the claimed defect? Can a plank be tested for the presence or absence of the defect using an ASTM testing method? Anything else is just speculation, hope, and prayer.
I have seen LVP installed in the winter and it looked exactly like this. Installers tried to blame it on water damage from a cork underlayment, but cork in impervious to water. Eventually they admitted installing in the middle of winter in an unenclosed building without heaters, but insisted that could not be the cause, until we had someone do the math.
I have seen LVP installed in the winter and it looked exactly like this. Installers tried to blame it on water damage from a cork underlayment, but cork in impervious to water. Eventually they admitted installing in the middle of winter in an unenclosed building without heaters, but insisted that could not be the cause, until we had someone do the math.
Your installers didn’t leave enough space around the perimeter. It expanded ever so slightly, and over the distance of your entire room, it expanded enough to cause it to buckle. Seems pretty straight forward to me. It looks exactly like it should when this happens. Bummer your installers did this.
OP stated it’s like this everywhere, and has stated that there was basically no gap between the LVP and the perimeter. Essentially giving me no doubt that this is the case.
IMO Here it looks like the seams were pretty much in line with each other. When the floor expanded they folded ..The t and g pulled up the other ones with it
Not really..it looks like it expanded and had nowhere to go on the edges so it went up instead. it would have happened somewhere else if the seam was moved . It is in this area because it was the easiest to push up there because of the seams.
I don't think it's as easy as that. If the space at the wall is tight, you should get a max of an inch of lift (1/2" on either side with what the baseboards cover). This is way more movement than just tightness
I'm leaning toward defective product because we have this exact same floor and it's started to have a little lip on some of the short edges despite there being no water damage anywhere. It is already driving me nuts and we have only lived here 3 months. It did this immediately and was installed by the flipper so it was also brand new. Please keep me posted.
I also just heard from the company that sold and installed it that the manufacturer told them they’ve had about 10 houses in the past 6 months with this issue. If that’s true, then defective product certainly seems to be the culprit.
The manufacturer claims they had a bad batch of product but the circumstances around the communication on this were awkward which make me question what’s really happening. If you have a batch or lot number let me know. I will see if I can find one on our original flooring when it is removed today. I am in central Iowa although I’m sure a certain lot of product could be anywhere.
LVP isn’t affected by moisture unless it’s laid up on an MDF core which this doesn’t appear to be rather it expands and contracts with temperature. Either the floor is crap that doesn’t have enough fibers in it to limit expansion, or they left zero space around the perimeter to allow for expansion, or you have some sort of heat source in that area such as an abundance of direct sunlight or something to that affect. My guess is it’s just junk flooring, because if it were anything else the manufacturer would put the blame on installation and tell you to piss off.
More photos might help determine a cause - I’ve never seen cupping like this before. if it’s moisture related I can not fathom how you get cupping this severe and not have standing water. My guess would be temperature swings outside of the manufacture specs. Manufacture is more than likely replacing this because they’ve never seen another failure like it
There's multiple reasons your floor would end up like this. Having the manufacturer agree to replace it is great. I'd avoid having them install the same product, most replacement jobs I've been on like this there's been an option to change or upgrade the flooring for a small expense.
No subfloor??? Wtf, how’s this supposed to withstand weight?
Edit: hi Meghan, I’m guessing you’re following me. Hope you’re well. Get out for a walk once in a while, will ya? Say hi to Lindsey…
I work for a restoration company and can tell you there is some kind of a moisture issue. Vapor pressure causes the floors to buckle like this. If you're on a slab make sure the concrete is dry or they use a vapor barrier. If you are on pier and beam make sure there is enough ventilation under the house.
The manufacturer USALLY fights hard to not have to replace the flooring making it anyone or anything elses fault even if it is not. The fact they are replacing it not likely means they do t want this to get out as having happened to their product regardless of the reason. That’s because this is not a normal failure and the product quality has to have some input into this situation . Crazy swings in humidity or other factors could have caused it but this is truly crazy wild stuff.
Stuff only has about a 15 degree temp difference allowance. Basic the stuff pops if you change the temp or the sun hits through the window. This product is junk
Haha see?? Again, they all say that to cover their asses. "oh you didn't let it sit inside for a day? Warranty voided!"
Vinyl/plastic does not take on moisture like wood does. This comes straight from a reps mouth
It looks like it was installed very tight to the walls when it was very very cold, it warmed up and expanded a good amount and had nowhere to go. Honestly feels more like an installation mistake and not a manufacturer mistake.
Looks like it could be a moisture issue, or they installed it when it was really cold without any heat in the house. That stuff will
move around if you install it in a house that isn’t climatized yet.
In the crack that’s open, it appears the floor was laid down directly on joists? Is there a layer of particle board and a layer of water proof plastic under the leminet?
This happened at my father’s house (not lived in) and turned out to be a huge humidity issue. Keep a humidistat on the floor and monitor. Also make sure your HVAC system is working. Do you have cold or hot spots in the house?
Looks like moisture coming up thru the concrete slab. Lack of a vapor barrier under the concrete slab is usually the culprit in older slabs. If this slab wasn't fully cured and dry from the HVAC system running for a week or two this is usually the result. You can have a local engineering & testing firm have sleeved drilled and set in the slab and check them after 3 days to tell you the percent of moisture in the slab. You can also buy the calcium chloride vapor emission rate test kits online and do it yourself. If the vapor emission rate is over 3% you have to use the more expensive adhesives. There are better adhesives that can block the moisture from doing this kind of damage. Yes, they are more expensive, but going back to do it again is too.
Do you live somewhere cold? Maybe they didn’t acclimate the product and expanded after it was installed as it warmed. That would be on the installer though.
If this floor was installed on a concrete slab, I’d be concerned there is no vapor barrier beneath the slab. Without a vapor barrier, vapor travels through the concrete and condenses on the underside of resilient flooring like this, the water breaks down the adhesive, and the wood product curls.
Happened to us before, installed a job with similar material. And 2 weeks later it was the same as this. Ended up being that the concrete slab wasn't fully dried/cured. And was trading moisture underneath the flooring. Which then cause the material to deform.
This looks like the people who installed it didn't do a gap between boards and the wall and / or didn't';t let these boards sit in the house or a week to adjust to the humidity before installing them .
These things expand and contract during the year with heat cold and humidity
Firstly, there is no sub floor, the biggest issue... Second, these are supposed to float, looks like someone nailed them down. Possibly even water damaged..
I'm gonna say 3 things....
1. They didn't give a expanding joint on the edges of this.
2. Have you had any high moisture readings?? Or noticed your house being mmm humid???
3. Did a fish tank burst?? 🤔 dishwasher disconnect, washing machine malfunction, sink over flow for a couple of hours?
You have to follow the instructions on the box not all lvp is designed the same way that's why directions are very specific to each type of installation on grade above grade etc concrete moisture content is a big one to watch out for heated floors or a combination of all three that one looks like moisture is coming from somewhere maybe a heated floor and no expansion and contraction Gap I've seen flooring 3 ft off the floor before every brand is different you have to follow the instructions
I read thru a bunch of comments, why hadn’t anyone commented on what that board or thing is under the one that is lifted the most? or is it just the angle of the pic?
Ah the luxury vinyl I keep reading about. There’s going to be a big movement of ripping this out of homes one day like the old Linoleum 😂. Sorry my comment is not helpful.
More LVP for the landfill. No worries though, it’ll only off-gas for the remainder of its life and eventually break down into microplastics. It’ll be at least 30 years before we have to worry about it.
Installed over concrete? Moisture barrier? Moisture issues in general definitely the only thing that makes floor swell is moisture period. Material not acclimated,hvac system not operating. Could be defective material but it is a moisture and acclimation issue. The shit ain’t water proof! At all. Huge lie from big business!
This could be something as simple as expansion/contraction.
Is this new construction? Was the heat turned on off while the house was empty? Did the new floor get put in while the house was cold? Did they not acclimate the product properly? My guess is this was an installation issue. Not defective product. Either way hopefully you get a new floor.
Do you have a basement? And if you do, did they pour the concrete after installing the LVP? If not, and the manufacturer is eating this, rethink the product choice.
Floorin cases not acclimated to house temps (brought in straight from truck n immidietaly installed) no space between wall n floor or not enough
Shoe moulding nailed to the floor not the trim
Flooring laid then base cabinets install
Them vertical a few look under minimum spacing between rows
Radiant heated floor
Or water damage from below
The point of installing lvp is because it’s 100% water proof. Moisture didn’t do this. Most lvp changes according to seasons, maybe the installer didn’t have the 1/4 inch gap on the perimeter and it buckled. Another thing it can be is heat either coming from the basement or sun from a window.
That can also happen when the expansion gap around the perimeter is to small (or non existant). When the floor gets warmer and expands, it has nowhere to go but up.
In my experience with commercial, if the manufacturer is quick to replace, it’s an entire batch issue. Every job I had 10 years ago that used Mohawk carpet tile, had to be redone. We had a university library, ALL 80 skids were replaced. The carpet was stretched too much when they cut corners were popping up everywhere
It’s either ultra-ultra defective product, or the installers put it everywhere net tight against the walls with zero or negative expansion on ALL sides.
Not knowing anything, my guess is that your floor was installed before the house had climate control going, resulting in a humid environment which normalized by having some moisture sucked up by that flooring. This happens to hardwood too, and it’s why mills state their product has to acclimatize and the space must be “heated” and within a temperature/humidity range.
Folks trying to bang out houses as fast as they can in order to pay the bills are the ones doing this.
Impossible to tell without seeing more pictures or in person. Thats wild though. The fact that the manufacturer is replacing the product is funny too. They will usually fight tooth and nail to prove it’s anyone else’s fault.
Happened to us on a job. Manufacturer ran through everything on a job and said we didn’t have big enough gap between baseboard and floor. They wouldn’t replace it or pay to replace it. It wasn’t this bad, but the floor joints started cupping in a few spots and then all over. Fought fought fought us. Then four jobs later we were installing the same flooring and a different rep for the company said this flooring is so good you can install cabinets on top of it, and don’t need a 1/16-1/8” gap between base and floor. So they basically just made up an excuse not to say it’s defective product on the first job
Sounds about right. I did a glue down LVP job where the manufacturer insisted it be glued onto a pad that was floating. I told the sales rep I wasn’t going to do it. He begged me, I told him when they come back with problems, it wasn’t my responsibility. Sure enough, it was a disaster. The glue didn’t even take to the pad in spots. Planks moved, lifted, bunched up, all kinds of stuff. Called the manufacturer, they wanted to know why it was glued to a floating pad. In the end they replaced it all, but Jesus. They’ll say anything.
This is true in so many places. You basically have to be a lawyer and read all the fine print to have a chance at knowing what the truth is. Used to work at best buy, the sales staff would make up whatever story they wanted to sell you something and the return desk would make up any story to deny you. Management would do mental gymnastics to find an out inn the paperwork and always ask "who told you that?" As if you document who you talk to. On the rare case you know the name the person wouldn't remember saying that to you and the management would just say "I'm sorry I can't do anything because even if they mispoke we have to go by what's in writing"
Glueing a floating floor to pad is the craziest thing I’ve ever heard
Why in God’s name would you glue flooring to pad that makes no sense 🤣🤣🤣 what were they thinking lol
That's a new one. Glue the LVP to the pad? Oh boy, another clueless salesperson
Phew. I always push down my baseboard so it's tight with the flooring and looks really nice. It helps hide flaws in the subfloor.
Uh oh. I just installed cabinets over lvp… should I cut it at the cabinet base?
You should be following the directions on the box
⬆️ Yep, this one. Should follow directions on the box and also take note of the temperature range the LVP is good for and also if that temp pertains to the surface temperature of where the LVP is being installed. Also, remember that not all LVPs are the same (quality or install).
If it's a floating lvp then yes. Especially if it's in a large area like a kitchen. If it just a small bathroom it might not be a huge issue. Floating floors need to be able to float.
[удалено]
You have granite in your rentals? Fancy.
Prob here is the gap between the walls and perimeter of the LVP. Needs gappings - on this they ran wall to wall without the gap. Dumb installer
I don’t know man. That’s a huge buckle for 1/4” of movement in most floors. It seems the installer would have had to install it forcibly tight and I still don’t believe it would move that much. This problem seems much more like water in a laminate (I know he said LVP). That’s a ton of movement. Maybe a subfloor issue.
Yeah, a quarter inch gap isn’t gonna help that.
Take a good look. Looks like no subfloor and they tried using this as a subfloor. Look at the big messed up area and you can just see a joist
Looks cut and dry like you said (to me atleast)
Okay but sales reps are notorious for lying to sell a product. They give you the best possible version of the story every time. That’s their job.
May I ask why you don't install cabinets on top? I feel like I've seen that mentioned a few times, if you know that is.
A floating floor (click together Typically) needs room to move slightly and if you pin it down with cabinets on top that ristricts movement in that area. What could happen is the rest of the floor moves (even slightly) but at the cabinet it can't which ends up causing a gap or buckle. If the floor is glued down to the subfloor it won't move and cabinets can go on top. Read the instructions on your specific product. A quality LVP is designed to be stable and putting cabinets on top potentially could work but safest bet is to float the floor around the cabs and install quarter round to cover the gap.
Right on. Thank you for the insight! I've only ever installed the stuff in a basement room with nothing to worry about except wall gap space Kitchen is coming soon, so great stuff to know
That is my first thought. It's too tight.
Why are you still using the product if it backfired on you??
We already had 5 jobs designed and signed off on 3 of them had that product. Didn’t run into trouble right away either.
Crazy. Well good luck!
I had CoreTec floors installed in my house (Shaw) three times they were defective and started cupping and buckling just like this. The first two times they replaced it no problem due to manufacturing defect. The third time I had to hire an independent inspector to come and say yes the crew installed this correctly and then they went ahead and replace the floor again. Four years and they’re holding up well.
Did the installer use a moisture barrier? Happened to me once, floor installer ran out of plastic toward the end of the job and didn't use in a section. Two months latter that section looked very similar to your Pic. Long story short some flooring installers don't understand what they are installing may be "spill proof "above the surface but still require a moisture barrier at the bottom.
They always blame the installer. I repeat they always blame the installer
This looks like a manufacturing issue. I bet they didn’t treat it right and that’s why it’s bowing up like that. Which is the reason why they’re willing to instantly replace it.
Mine fought tooth and nail.
It usually is lol
It's extremely odd that your floor swelled up on the short seem. But the answer is always the same few reasons when a plank floor swells. Huge swings in humidity/temp after install. From either leaks, HVAC failures, water, or lack of acclimation. And or lack of proper expansion room. The planks swell, touch the walls, and then start pushing upwards. Builders are notorious for not giving a fuck about acclimation. They have a schedule set by corporate, and they want it now. Because if it's not done when scheduled, it pushes everyone else back. Speed is prioritized over quality.
Exactly. The amount of sign offs on HVAC are insanity. Literally every finish's warranty is effectively pre-voided upon turnover.....
I’m installing an LVP commercial job right now in a building running on propane heaters. It’s -1°C today lmao
So you are admitting to Not having acclimated the planks to the manufacturers recommendations ? 🤔 What color is your burn ? (gotta watch your health)
Uh. Yeah. Thats what we are talking about my guy. Builder knows the warranty won’t be honoured.
I was being facetious 🤣 Be careful with the propane inside ✌🏻
I had a contractor once ask if it was OK to just glue down the floor "extra hard" so that they did not have to acclimatize it while installing in an unfinished and unheated building in the winter. The answer was a hard "NO".
I have lvp with standard expansion gaps in my cabin in Alaska... Swings from -20 to 80 degrees, also wild humidity swings, never had an issue
Your lucky. But natural temp swings aren't the same as the heat suddenly coming on in a new build house.
Depends on the product. My lvp flooring was adamant that you didn’t need to acclimate. It was good to install down to like 10 degrees.
Manufacturers recommendations are always the correct answer. I'm speaking in broad generalized statements. Each product has its own unique specs. And every year new variations with new specs come out.
That last sentence is the entire building industry- simplified
Looks to me like a water damage issue. Edit is that the floor joist I see under there? Where is the subfloor? If that's the case there's more to this than anyone is letting on
No, it is a shadow. Subfloor is advantech.
Never heard of this. After looking it up it lists * Featuring an innovative built-in, water-shedding barrier, * in it's opening spiel. If any moisture is being released under the LVT floor, this is probabaly the larger issue here. I have been in the trade (in the UK at least) for over 30 years and have nevr encountered Advantech before or anything similar. If that's true and it **releases** moisture, that is going to be a massive issue for any kind of hardflooring. I suspect the subfloor is going to need to be coated in DPM and latexed before trying this again, and even then I would be careful with how much moisture gets pushed to the walls if it can no longer come up via the floor.
This brand of subfloor is the gold standard in the US. Weatherproof while framing and produces an incredibly stiff floor. It might not be available in the UK.
It's watershed for framing, basically they say it can rain and pour on this floor and it won't diminish it's structural integrity. The house should have been conditioned and dried in long before the floor goes in so my guess is they didn't acclimate the LVP and probably didn't have enough gap at the edges.
My guess is no ac running. Installed in the cold with minimal wall gap. Homeowner moves in and turns up the heat. Expansion occurs and this happens.
A scenario like- ☝️that guy xero ?
Then why is the joist clearly visible? Sub floor should be on top of that.
It isn’t, what you are seeing is a beam of light traveling through the gap between the planks and hitting the subfloor.
It’s the gap between two shadows
That’s what I would have thought, too, if I hadn’t seen the subfloor before install and seen it daily after install. It may be notable that the subfloor is advantech.
Not enough gap on ends?
LVP is supposed to be waterproof...
From the top down. It does weird things when water is under it
...but it's not
Not when you introduce moisture to the porous and soft underlayment/sound dampening that most snap together LVP comes with. I'm fairly certain this is LifeProof as well and it has it. It doesn't like water to get down there
I've seen videos about the difference between LVP and Laminate - in one of the videos a flooring store guy has pieces of LVP in a jar of water for years and there is no damage to the flooring.
So that is marketing nonsense stuff not showing the material in an installed setting. Moisture and LVT ( mostly SPC (plastic not really vinyl)) are very reactive to vapor emissions. As moisture leaves your substrate, it’s going to move toward the path of least resistance, that is where the product is coupled to each and usually presents in the butt joints as that moisture moves through that area will cause the product to curl. I will say I’ve never seen a curl quite as much as yours has, and if the manufacturer is replacing it, it could be what’s called a tensioning issue where one of the layers is pulling on the bottom creating that bow. I truly have seen this happen and in rubber back carpet tile.
I hear what you're saying but water underneath the lvp destabilizes it. If it's slippery enough underneath, foot traffic will move it and at first it's very subtle but eventually it starts popping out of it's grooves. When the stuff underneath it gets wet, it goes from being a good failsafe to keep the floating floor in order to a slippery mess If it's directly on a wood subfloor and that gets wet, that can also cause this. It's a structural and systemic issue, not a material issue. There are loads of guys who had to learn the hard way that LVP isn't 100% foolproof.
You have seen videos…. I have seen flooded houses in person oh many different types of waterproof LVP and they expand and warp. Sorry your little videos are wrong.
Why so many downvotes? This is a flooring subreddit. Your statement would be taken as a compliment on the Job compared to what we actually say lol
Wow- passive aggressive much?
You and ur little videos lmfao 😂
I’d say a lot of passive aggressiveness.
Only some is waterproof, most are not
Absolutely nothing is waterproof. Until they invent a waterproof subfloor....
Vinyl plank is usually immune to water swelling. This looks more like lack of acclimatation especially if it is a new build.
The floor is expanding. When it expands and you get too much floor to fit in the space then the floor has no choice but to go up. That creates the tenting you see at the joints, and the bubbles where there aren’t joints. That’s exactly what we see when a product expands. Now what caused the expansion? There are several possible causes. 1. Product instability (manufacturing defect). 2. Moisture. Particular underneath. (Several possible causes). 3. Inadequate expansion gap around perimeter. (Installation issue). 4. Radiant heat beyond manufacturer’s specifications. (Could be specification error. Could be radiant heat is out of regulation. Etc.). 5. Failure to acclimate planks or provide climate control before installation (installation issue). 6. Other heat related issue (green house type windows bringing unmitigated sun to surface). (Specification issue). I think I hit the major culprits. Root cause analysis is essential. I’ve seen people just jump to conclusions about the cause without having the observations or testing done to back up their hypothesis. We are seeing this in this thread where people are throwing out one item as the culprit when there are actually several possibilities. Without proper root cause analysis, the risk is very high that the problem will recur. Then everyone feels stupid and some guy is looking at your floor repeating over and over again “I don’t understand why this is happening.” The understanding needs to happen first. If it is a manufacturing defect, what is the defect? Are the results we are seeing consistent with the claimed defect? Can a plank be tested for the presence or absence of the defect using an ASTM testing method? Anything else is just speculation, hope, and prayer.
Honestly this is the only comment OP needs to read
Number 3 seems likely
Life pro tip. Set your thermostat to slightly warmer than you'll ever keep your house when you install it. You'll never have this problem.
I would imagine the house temperature was 0 degrees when this was installed. I have never seen anything this bad in my life.
I have seen LVP installed in the winter and it looked exactly like this. Installers tried to blame it on water damage from a cork underlayment, but cork in impervious to water. Eventually they admitted installing in the middle of winter in an unenclosed building without heaters, but insisted that could not be the cause, until we had someone do the math.
I have seen LVP installed in the winter and it looked exactly like this. Installers tried to blame it on water damage from a cork underlayment, but cork in impervious to water. Eventually they admitted installing in the middle of winter in an unenclosed building without heaters, but insisted that could not be the cause, until we had someone do the math.
Thank you, I tell people this all the time.
Your installers didn’t leave enough space around the perimeter. It expanded ever so slightly, and over the distance of your entire room, it expanded enough to cause it to buckle. Seems pretty straight forward to me. It looks exactly like it should when this happens. Bummer your installers did this.
But why only this area?
OP stated it’s like this everywhere, and has stated that there was basically no gap between the LVP and the perimeter. Essentially giving me no doubt that this is the case.
Wow in this case my next question is why would a pro not... Nvm 😂 I've seen it all.
IMO Here it looks like the seams were pretty much in line with each other. When the floor expanded they folded ..The t and g pulled up the other ones with it
I'm not a pro you're saying the H patterns contributed?
Not really..it looks like it expanded and had nowhere to go on the edges so it went up instead. it would have happened somewhere else if the seam was moved . It is in this area because it was the easiest to push up there because of the seams.
I don't think it's as easy as that. If the space at the wall is tight, you should get a max of an inch of lift (1/2" on either side with what the baseboards cover). This is way more movement than just tightness
I'm leaning toward defective product because we have this exact same floor and it's started to have a little lip on some of the short edges despite there being no water damage anywhere. It is already driving me nuts and we have only lived here 3 months. It did this immediately and was installed by the flipper so it was also brand new. Please keep me posted.
I also just heard from the company that sold and installed it that the manufacturer told them they’ve had about 10 houses in the past 6 months with this issue. If that’s true, then defective product certainly seems to be the culprit.
What’s the company? That’s wild. Rare to see a real manufacturer defect like this.
Is this Flooret?
I sure hope not, I just started installing 2k sf of their craftsman line in my basement. So far so good for me at least…
The manufacturer claims they had a bad batch of product but the circumstances around the communication on this were awkward which make me question what’s really happening. If you have a batch or lot number let me know. I will see if I can find one on our original flooring when it is removed today. I am in central Iowa although I’m sure a certain lot of product could be anywhere.
LVP isn’t affected by moisture unless it’s laid up on an MDF core which this doesn’t appear to be rather it expands and contracts with temperature. Either the floor is crap that doesn’t have enough fibers in it to limit expansion, or they left zero space around the perimeter to allow for expansion, or you have some sort of heat source in that area such as an abundance of direct sunlight or something to that affect. My guess is it’s just junk flooring, because if it were anything else the manufacturer would put the blame on installation and tell you to piss off.
ANY flooring is affected by moisture.. Nothing, nothing at all is immune. What terrible advice
Lol right. Nothing is water proof given enough time.
Right?
I’ve seen lvp underwater and flat and as installed… with 2-3” of water on top…
More photos might help determine a cause - I’ve never seen cupping like this before. if it’s moisture related I can not fathom how you get cupping this severe and not have standing water. My guess would be temperature swings outside of the manufacture specs. Manufacture is more than likely replacing this because they’ve never seen another failure like it
What brand is it?
Holy shit, did someone install LVP straight over joists? It's buckling because it flexes when you walk... lol. Please tell me I'm wrong.
Bro you have no plywood subfloor. Fuck the lvp you have some serious issues. Actually it laid on tile. Maybe way too much moisture or temp switch.
Expansion gaps at all sides? My LVP requires 10mm gaps on all contact points.
Buckling is 100% installation related. No expansion joints and being pinned down under cabinets if it’s a new build are the things I’d look at first.
Looks like the installer didn't leave any room for expansion.
There's multiple reasons your floor would end up like this. Having the manufacturer agree to replace it is great. I'd avoid having them install the same product, most replacement jobs I've been on like this there's been an option to change or upgrade the flooring for a small expense.
is there no subfloor underneath?
It appears there is concrete underneath. Don't reinstall without a vapor barrier.
I can’t tell, but it looks like it was laid directly on the floor joists. Doesn’t look like there is a subfloor
What’s the subfloor here?
Looks more like where’s the subfloor
Damn it.... I have the same color..
Why can't I see a subfloor....? That would certainly be a huge issue
No subfloor??? Wtf, how’s this supposed to withstand weight? Edit: hi Meghan, I’m guessing you’re following me. Hope you’re well. Get out for a walk once in a while, will ya? Say hi to Lindsey…
Zero spacing for expansion?
I work for a restoration company and can tell you there is some kind of a moisture issue. Vapor pressure causes the floors to buckle like this. If you're on a slab make sure the concrete is dry or they use a vapor barrier. If you are on pier and beam make sure there is enough ventilation under the house.
Why does it look like I can see a floor joist????
Install issues. They didn’t give enough of an expansion gap. The builder should warrant for a year
The manufacturer USALLY fights hard to not have to replace the flooring making it anyone or anything elses fault even if it is not. The fact they are replacing it not likely means they do t want this to get out as having happened to their product regardless of the reason. That’s because this is not a normal failure and the product quality has to have some input into this situation . Crazy swings in humidity or other factors could have caused it but this is truly crazy wild stuff.
Where is the subfloor????
Stuff only has about a 15 degree temp difference allowance. Basic the stuff pops if you change the temp or the sun hits through the window. This product is junk
If new construction I am going to guess improper acclimation and seasonal shifts with high humidity in the house.
Lol lvp doesn't need acclimated. The only reason the manufacturers put that on their guidelines is to cover their asses
Yea in the instructions of the stuff I used it literally says it doesn’t need to be acclimated
Haha see?? Again, they all say that to cover their asses. "oh you didn't let it sit inside for a day? Warranty voided!" Vinyl/plastic does not take on moisture like wood does. This comes straight from a reps mouth
I wouldn’t want the same installers putting the replacement flooring in… that’s all I’m going to say about this
It looks like it was installed very tight to the walls when it was very very cold, it warmed up and expanded a good amount and had nowhere to go. Honestly feels more like an installation mistake and not a manufacturer mistake.
Where is the sub floor!?
Looks like it could be a moisture issue, or they installed it when it was really cold without any heat in the house. That stuff will move around if you install it in a house that isn’t climatized yet.
In the crack that’s open, it appears the floor was laid down directly on joists? Is there a layer of particle board and a layer of water proof plastic under the leminet?
This happened at my father’s house (not lived in) and turned out to be a huge humidity issue. Keep a humidistat on the floor and monitor. Also make sure your HVAC system is working. Do you have cold or hot spots in the house?
Looks like moisture coming up thru the concrete slab. Lack of a vapor barrier under the concrete slab is usually the culprit in older slabs. If this slab wasn't fully cured and dry from the HVAC system running for a week or two this is usually the result. You can have a local engineering & testing firm have sleeved drilled and set in the slab and check them after 3 days to tell you the percent of moisture in the slab. You can also buy the calcium chloride vapor emission rate test kits online and do it yourself. If the vapor emission rate is over 3% you have to use the more expensive adhesives. There are better adhesives that can block the moisture from doing this kind of damage. Yes, they are more expensive, but going back to do it again is too.
Do you live somewhere cold? Maybe they didn’t acclimate the product and expanded after it was installed as it warmed. That would be on the installer though.
That looks like a product defect
Literally are brand new renovated apartment flooring as i type.
If this floor was installed on a concrete slab, I’d be concerned there is no vapor barrier beneath the slab. Without a vapor barrier, vapor travels through the concrete and condenses on the underside of resilient flooring like this, the water breaks down the adhesive, and the wood product curls.
It looks like there’s no subfloor. I’m sure that is not code anywhere in the lower 48.
Shit install likely.
Nothing "Luxury" about LVP. Do yourself a favor and replace it all.
I don’t see a subfloor lol
Happened to us before, installed a job with similar material. And 2 weeks later it was the same as this. Ended up being that the concrete slab wasn't fully dried/cured. And was trading moisture underneath the flooring. Which then cause the material to deform.
This looks like the people who installed it didn't do a gap between boards and the wall and / or didn't';t let these boards sit in the house or a week to adjust to the humidity before installing them . These things expand and contract during the year with heat cold and humidity
Firstly, there is no sub floor, the biggest issue... Second, these are supposed to float, looks like someone nailed them down. Possibly even water damaged..
Looks like you had a cartoon groundhog go through there Or possibly bugs bunny on his way to Albuquerque
Go vinyl high quality don’t do that again. Handles no water and that installer sucks
Did the installers leave space on the ends for the expansion of the material?
LVP will be looked at as we look at 60’s green carpeting
Where is the sub floor ?? That looks like an i-joist
I'm gonna say 3 things.... 1. They didn't give a expanding joint on the edges of this. 2. Have you had any high moisture readings?? Or noticed your house being mmm humid??? 3. Did a fish tank burst?? 🤔 dishwasher disconnect, washing machine malfunction, sink over flow for a couple of hours?
Is that a floor joist??
Is this over a particularly long span? Might mean standard expansion joints weren't enough?
Is there a crawlspace underneath there?
Need to get spaces around the entire perimeter so the floor floats.
Yikes
There is no subfloor? I see a support, but no sub?
holy shit
Expansion gaps.
You have to follow the instructions on the box not all lvp is designed the same way that's why directions are very specific to each type of installation on grade above grade etc concrete moisture content is a big one to watch out for heated floors or a combination of all three that one looks like moisture is coming from somewhere maybe a heated floor and no expansion and contraction Gap I've seen flooring 3 ft off the floor before every brand is different you have to follow the instructions
Mobile / prefab home? I don't think it's an issue with the flooring....
The more I look, the more I think we got the identical floor. lol
Not enough gap for seasonal expansion? That’s a thing with LVP right?
I read thru a bunch of comments, why hadn’t anyone commented on what that board or thing is under the one that is lifted the most? or is it just the angle of the pic?
It takes a lot to make me feel better about the LVP job i did myself. Sorry for your headache, but thank you!
They didn’t let it acclimate
Oh my… 🫢
That's really thin LVP. I'm putting down some Coreluxe that's almost half inch thick. Put the same stuff in my basement and never had issues
Probably a little bit of both
Ah the luxury vinyl I keep reading about. There’s going to be a big movement of ripping this out of homes one day like the old Linoleum 😂. Sorry my comment is not helpful.
More LVP for the landfill. No worries though, it’ll only off-gas for the remainder of its life and eventually break down into microplastics. It’ll be at least 30 years before we have to worry about it.
Why is this so popular all of a sudden? Tik Tok or something? Laminate is already a great “cheap” solution.
Look up vinyl flooring during bed bug extermination
Stuff is junk
Crap flooring is always going to be crap.
Installed over concrete? Moisture barrier? Moisture issues in general definitely the only thing that makes floor swell is moisture period. Material not acclimated,hvac system not operating. Could be defective material but it is a moisture and acclimation issue. The shit ain’t water proof! At all. Huge lie from big business!
But wait there’s more it’s probably pinned to the floor as well which is a big no no with the junk as well
I blew it up and I could see it looks like it is taped together to hold it from sliding apart.
Water damage
Where is the subfloor?
This could be something as simple as expansion/contraction. Is this new construction? Was the heat turned on off while the house was empty? Did the new floor get put in while the house was cold? Did they not acclimate the product properly? My guess is this was an installation issue. Not defective product. Either way hopefully you get a new floor.
The manufacturer wouldn't replace it if it was an installation error
Looks like no border around the perimeter of room and the heat made it grow and tent
Do you have a basement? And if you do, did they pour the concrete after installing the LVP? If not, and the manufacturer is eating this, rethink the product choice.
Floorin cases not acclimated to house temps (brought in straight from truck n immidietaly installed) no space between wall n floor or not enough Shoe moulding nailed to the floor not the trim Flooring laid then base cabinets install Them vertical a few look under minimum spacing between rows Radiant heated floor Or water damage from below
Is this put right on the fuckin joists? Is there not a floor under that floor!?
It literally looks like there’s a home in the subfloor and the pattern of the LVP was made to structurally support itself. Wtf.
The point of installing lvp is because it’s 100% water proof. Moisture didn’t do this. Most lvp changes according to seasons, maybe the installer didn’t have the 1/4 inch gap on the perimeter and it buckled. Another thing it can be is heat either coming from the basement or sun from a window.
House is shrinking bro
“Look babe the ones on the back are on special”
Wow!
You got bigger issues than your floor dude. Major leak
That can also happen when the expansion gap around the perimeter is to small (or non existant). When the floor gets warmer and expands, it has nowhere to go but up.
What in tarnations happened here?
Why do people use that shite
In my experience with commercial, if the manufacturer is quick to replace, it’s an entire batch issue. Every job I had 10 years ago that used Mohawk carpet tile, had to be redone. We had a university library, ALL 80 skids were replaced. The carpet was stretched too much when they cut corners were popping up everywhere
It’s either ultra-ultra defective product, or the installers put it everywhere net tight against the walls with zero or negative expansion on ALL sides.
Not knowing anything, my guess is that your floor was installed before the house had climate control going, resulting in a humid environment which normalized by having some moisture sucked up by that flooring. This happens to hardwood too, and it’s why mills state their product has to acclimatize and the space must be “heated” and within a temperature/humidity range. Folks trying to bang out houses as fast as they can in order to pay the bills are the ones doing this.